/vr/ - Retro Games

Where is the guy with the youtube channel who was up to upload replays?

Anyone ever used any game of the series? Are they any good? Can I even use them without knowing Japanese?

>>2774264
Stupid me, never mind I just read the full thread.

CCWI replay is up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpNyVNJ947Y

Feel free to send me more stuff to shmuparchive@gmail.com or upload replays and give links.

Why the hell are the western WR so pathetic and what the fuck does ALTERNATE A+4 C+2 even mean?

>>2774946
Looks nice, thanks dude.

>>2775175
It means that they used an autofire macro that alternates firing rate in a complex way or with multiple buttons, instead of just a simple autofire that fires every n frames. A+4/C+2 would be referring to the specific autofire timings and settings, I guess.

>>2775175
Japan is a more obsession tolerant culture in some ways. Most westerners simply don't have the time or insanity to devote to mastering a game at that level.

The guy who thinks he's hardcore because he practices for three hours after work every day is laughed at by the crazy guy in Tokyo living in a shoebox playing it 19 hours a day and dreaming about it the other 4.

>>2775175
Because Western gamers are all casuals. Same reason why Arcades still exist in Japan.

>>2774946
>Type Z

>>2775403
Oh, I see, that's weird considering it's Futari the game that had the weird rhythmic tapping score system thing.

>>2775490
The game is pretty hard without Type-Z, it can't be helped. I've been trying Type-II though and gotten 4bil with it, hope I can get a similar/better run with it at some point.

>>2775503
>that's weird considering it's Futari the game that had the weird rhythmic tapping score system thing.
Barely 20 posts in to an stg thread and the misinformation begins already, no futari didn't have weird tapping.

>>2775175
TBF that mushi original score is close and both are no miss as for the other 2 it's simply that no westerner went full shmup with those titles yet..... look at futari however and you'l see westerner Gus got the counterstop so it depends on the game.

Was Gradius V the shmup's swan song?

>>2776161

Yes, but boy have I got news for you if you like danmaku trash!

>>2776232
Why hate on bullet hell?

>>2775750
>no futari didn't have weird tapping.
I meant the green/blue counter thing. You cash in by killing things with the autoshot when the counter is green and with the laser when it's blue.

>>2776249
It's the cancer which gave the genre the final blow. Memorizers like R-Type or Gradius were the shit. They were perfect for playing for survival and kept the casuals away.

Now all we have left is creditfeeders and some autistic score-whores.

>>2776287
there is literally no difference in the memorization required for those games and bullet hells

>>2776295
Yeah if you're a scrub it's all the same shit.

>>2776295
Of course there is. In Memorizers you get heavily punished for dying (lose all power-ups, get send back to checkpoints), meaning you basically have to play through the game in 1 life. This is perfect for playing for survival and keeps casuals away.

In danmaku you do not get punished and you also don't have checkpoints. Meaning even casuals can enjoy them and ruin the genre with their shit taste. Their focus is too much on score, rather than survival. So instead of painstakingly orchestrated levels, they just throw a bunch of shit at you.

>>2776309
Alright buddy. If they're so easy, what bullet hells have you 1cc'd then?

>>2776310
I never said they were easy to 1cc, learn to read.

>>2776313
>focus on score rather than survival

>>2776316
Yes they do. That's how you got games like Ikaruga for example, where playing for survival can put you to sleep, but playing it for score makes your mind blown.

I seriously hope you guys are supporting the advancement of the genre by only playing post-danmaku STDs and not CAVE's cancer-ridden rehashes.

>>2776326
Most danmaku fans think ikaruga is a shit game, I don't really know where you're going with this.

In danmaku you can easily play for survival and ignore score altogether

>>2776331
Only edgy hipsters think Ikaruga is a shit game. At least that game has some level design.

Of course you can play for survival in danmaku, but it's not a requirement. You also can easily lose 6 lives and still get a good score.

>>2776348
Holy fuck you're a retard. Your score will be shit if you die six times, and you'll likely have to use a second credit to die that much

>>2776351
That's complete bullshit. Some danmaku games can get pretty hard so losing 6 lives is nothing there, just like they shit out extends at every level.

That's the problem with these games. They just throw a bunch of shit at you without any thought behind it.

>>2775750
>For example, if the player has 4 child counters with a value of 500 each, each tap of the C button will add 2,000 to the parent counter, causing it to skyrocket to outrageous amounts. Be forewarned, "counter banking" or "counter skyrocketing" causes the value of the child counter to rapidly decrease. In this way, there is a constant risk vs. reward system for scoring, as a player needs to keep enemies on screen to prevent the hit counter from decreasing, while also quickly dispatching enemies as they appear to have the largest amount of scoring gems appear. The key to achieving high scores in these modes is to always be increasing the score counter whenever possible, and maintaining its level. To achieve this, players must learn when and where to tap the shot or auto fire buttons anywhere from 2 to 7+ times a second to effectively maintain a high score counter throughout a stage to either be increasing or not decreasing the score counter. One final note on the scoring in Mushihime-sama and, Cave games in general, is that most of the player's score will come from the final stage, or even the final boss.

So essentially what this all means is weaken enemies with the laser, then kill it with the C shot. That's what the C+2 A+4 means, that person used a macro.

>>2776375
Sounds like nerd shit to be honest.

>>2776394
Heh i have mixed feelings, the counters are an eyesore but the tapping is fun.

I'm surprised the guy above didn't know about the mushihime tapping since it's in both games. Goes to show how little you fags actually know.

>>2776401
It's not in both games retard.

>>2776415
Futari works the same except you switch buttons when the counter changes color.

>>2776416
And there's no importance to tapping because your fire rate does nothing.

>>2776420
You need to tap once for every option else you lose points.

>>2776420
If you hold the autofire down you'll kill the thing off before the multiplier cashed in (rolled down) completely. By tapping you delay finishing them off until the points are done counting.

I tell you hwat. Shump with no walls I can touch is like cousin I don't want to touch.

>>2776328
no.

>>2776326
>where playing for survival can put you to sleep, but playing it for score makes your mind blown.
Jesus christ stop making shit up all the top ikaruga players commonly express how much they dislike the game, get over it it's shit, all show no go.

>>2776348
>Only edgy hipsters think Ikaruga is a shit game. At least that game has some level design.
Edgy hipsters and pretty much everyone who actually plays shmups past baby level.

>>2776416
Futari works nothing like mushi you fucking oxygen thieving stupid cunt. You probably haven't even cleared mushi original with a pleb 200 mill score ffs.

Meaning futari not the first game.

>>2776524
Explain then, you're right I don't play them for score.

>>2776524
You're getting too defensive, dude, that's rude. Please calm down a bit.

What's your favorite game in the Raiden series? I was just playing the first one.

>>2776524
Anon, this is getting pathetic, just admit you're an useless scrub and you will never get anywhere in these games.
It's less painful that way.

>>2776551
don't play them, stgs suck, the community is horrible

>>2776561
Well, it's too late, I'm playing them. I might even play it again later tonight. I'm really sorry, anon.

hey guys im looking for this one shoo ting game where a bunch of pink bullets were shat out all over the screen, there were no level hazards whatsoever, the enemies are strewn about randomly, and there's a "deep" scoring system to distract me from the actual game being a shitty rehashed mess. any ideas?

>>2776682
Capcom's 1942 ?

>>2776548
>you're right I don't play them for score.
Then why try talking on the subject? In future admit your ignorance and try asking instead of spreading misinformation. Ok so in futari original and ultra it's basically that spread shot (c or tapping a if you prefer rsi) will get you large gems from enemies if the counter is 500 or less so 0-500,1000-1500,2000-2500 etc and focus shot will get you large gems otherwise 500-1000,1500-2000,2500-3000 etc. If you kill enemies with the wrong shot they will only produce little gems which add to the multiplier (bottom number) and not the top.

>>2776561
>the community is horrible
I agree but fuck am i not playing something I enjoy just because others who enjoy them to happen to generally be annoying uptight emotionally underdeveloped sperg cunts with no people skills.

>>2776551
>What's your favorite game in the Raiden series? I was just playing the first one.
Tried many times to get into them and just can't.. to me toaplan,psikyo, and nmk did a much better job with that formula as did the raiden fighters series.

>>2776701
I'd just consider Raiden Fighters to be part of the same series, despite the gameplay differences. Raiden Fighters 2 was one of the first shooting games I ever played.

>>2776704
>I'd just consider Raiden Fighters to be part of the same series
It isn't though it's a separate side series infact the original title was gun dogs and was changed to raiden fighters presumably thinking relation to the original would make it more appealing.

>>2776503
>>2776685

>if I post an old and venerable shmup with the same design flaws as bullet hell no one will call me out

Don't worry vertical shmups were cancerous enough to criticize long before bullet hell came along. If something said about not having proper level design fits then wear it.

>>2776740
I've never encountered such a short sighter ass clown in stgs community ever. So basically you could only learn to play r-type and decided everything else is shit because you're a cynical old cunt with no skill or perseverance? ok we get it.

Space ship in space instead of cavern? Made only by enemy designer? Critical flaw I must say.

>>2776561
>the community is horrible
i think it's just this thread

>>2776762

Yes, there are also shitty shmups that aren't bullet hells. I don't think anyone has ever argued otherwise.

Just, why? Why dies every thread has to start like this?

Vertical shmups lack level design because of the 'flying ship' meme endemic to the genre. If the gameplay breaks convention by taking place on the ground like in Guwange or Last Duel it will have level design.

Just, why? Why does every thread has to start like this?

>>2776779
Because of autistic cunt who thinks that level means static bounding boxes.

>>2776782
>level means picture of level + enemies

>>2776779
Because some fag made shitting up these threads part of his daily routine. I don't think he even believes what he's saying.

>>2776782

Don't worry guys, there was a lot of thought put into placing these enemies on top of a picture! It's just like good ol' Gradius, r-right guys? OH GOD JUST LOOK AT MY SCORE

>>2776786
Pretty much this. I think it's still Ikaruga hate guy who's so pissed that not everyone dispises it as much as he does so now he just shits up any Shmup thread that pops up.

>>2776348
>You also can easily lose 6 lives and still get a good score.
Oh wow you're totally right "i died 6 times in ketsui didn't qualify for the loops and still got a great score!" said no one ever. Every cave game ever has massive end game bonuses for no deaths.

>>2776823
>I think it's still Ikaruga hate guy who's so pissed that not everyone dispises it as much as he does so now he just shits up any Shmup thread that pops up.
No trolls but nearly all good players do dislike ikaruga when it comes to playing at a good level, go ask the japanese,chinese or western top players and see what they say. Ikaruga is great at one thing, appealing to casuals due to a basic as fuck to understand gimmick and some apparently decent presentation.

>>2776951
It depends on how hard the game is. Even the western record of Dodopeepee is not a 1LC. While in games like R-Type you are required to 1LC in order to even play through it.

>>2776963
That's because R-Type is piss easy in comparison

>>2776953
lol How did I know just mentioning that game would bring you out of the woodwork, kiddo?

>>2776953
>and some apparently decent presentation.

Why do danmaku scum always make me want to tip my fedora?

>>2776981
Because you're a dumbfuck. Ikaruga's one of the most lifeless and boring-looking games in the genre.

>>2776983

Yeah bro, you know what isn't boring? Teh epic purple bullets of dewm on top of a picture! Thumbs up if you love playing the same game over and over with the only differences being the scoring system.

>>2776992
It's much less boring than Ikaruga, the environments of which are exclusively made up of "generic monochromatic military base". It also somehow manages to make the action feel more detached from the backgrounds than most bullet hell games despite having environmental hazards, which is quite the feat.

>>2777003
You're funny :)

>>2777025
Ran out of arguments already? What a shame, but what can you expect from an Ikaruga fan.

>>2777031
>but what can you expect from an Ikaruga fan

Someone who doesn't need waifu pilots to enjoy a game.

>>2777031
I've never even played Ikaruga, don't like verts in general. I just enjoy mentioning it and watching you get all pissy about it because it's funny every time.

>>2776953
Can we start calling this the 'good players think' fallacy and spanking people who use it?

Ikaruga is plain casual garbage, simple as that.

Probably a dumb question but can you play a vertical shmup PCB on a horizontal cab?

If so does it have art on the borders, or is it just black?

>>2777206
Thanks doc, I needed that.

>>2777229
just black

Why bully Ikaruga when you could be appreciating the greatest shmup ever made instead?

>>2777258
FUCK OFF

I don't get it, why do you guys dislike Ikaruga so much? Seemed like an alright game with high production value aesthetics and soundtrack to me.

>>2777379
The scoring system is boring (but better than RSG's) and the enemy patterns are vapid and the stages are ugly brown and bloom before Gears of War popularized it and the bosses stop looking cool after stage 1 and the ship is too overpowered with the whole bullet absorption gimmick.

>>2777379
not animu enough

>>2777404
I see, makes sense. You guys won't play anything without lolis in it. Pretty shameful desu.

>>2777406
Most of /vr/ are elitist horifags which died before the moe virus could infect them.

>>2777416
Most of /vr/ are one person. I see.

>>2777416
Don't you worry. Horis are alive and well.

>>2777379
>Seemed like an alright game with high production value aesthetics and soundtrack to me.
The answer is right there... unskilled players don't know shit beyond looks and sound, try actually playing i mean really sitting down and working on full stage chains then come back and see how you feel.

You know the shmups community is dire when the shittest shit cunt of all communities neogaf starts featuring posts that they won't visit shmups forum because it's to toxic lel. We suck you guys.

>>2777431
Disgusting.

>>2776981
>Why do danmaku scum always make me want to tip my fedora?
I love how you assume i'm danmaku scum when in reality i'm a fan of the genre and everything in it from horis and verts old and new.

>>2777447
>playing everything while never getting good at anything
I just know you're a scrub.

>>2777453
>getting good at a dead genre nobody gives a shit about

>>2777453
Behave yourself mate i've been playing exclusively shmups for close to ten years and am not one to jump games before reaching a more than competent level. Don't try that troll antagonize angle, that's my job you cheesy gape ;).

>>2777460
You keep saying that. Shmups are bigger than ever, buddy boy.

>>2777440
Shmup fans keep out shitholes like Neogaf? Sounds like a good thing to me.

What does /stg/ think of Super SWIV / Firepower 2000?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRAmj6-prq0

>>2777440
Link to thread? I want to take shaming screenshots.

>>2777472
Euro garbage.

>>2777472
I actually like it but mainly for nostalgia reasons as i had the commodore 64 port as a kid.

>>2777473
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1113344&page=13

>>2777467
Only the meme kind

>>2777472
The two-player mode looks pretty hillarious in this game.

>>2777479
>thing is dead
>but it's not
>but they don't count
You keep moving the goalposts, kiddo.

>>2777478
Anyone that uses "toxic" in a serious manner to describe something should be taken out and shot on the spot.

>>2777485
Alright, and u keep grinding away in Touhou or Ikaruga or some other memeup to impress kids on youtube lol

>>2777487
Just so you know Ikaruga has dope aesthetics. Touhou is ugly garbage.

>>2777489
>Ikaruga has dope aesthetics.
>brown

>>2777489
Ikaruga looks like the turd I took this morning and forgot to flush.

You guys manage to have even more shitposting than the Castlevania guys, I'm impressed.

>>2777489
Both are shit.

>>2777513
You're just coming up with excuses to avoid gitting gud.

>>2777513
shmups is a very autistic genre, it's really not surprising

>>2777513
People still play Castlevania games? Those are some babby-tier platformers.

>>2777515
>git gud

I only played Demon's Souls, it wasn't really as hard as people were making it out to be.
Some day I might play Dark Souls but I'm not in a hurry.

>>2777520
yeah babbie stuff they even give you multiple hit points before dyeing

>>2777520

I don't know if they play it, but boy do they shitpost about it. Not as bad as this thread though.

Was it good or was it simply Squarebabby's first shmup?

>>2777543
I recall it being harder than r-type delta. Someone tell me how wrong I am.

Btw what's the most overpowered weapon?

>>2777520
Which platformer isn't?

>>2777543

crappy babby entry level shit for RPG fanatics, verti or die

>>2777435
>try actually playing i mean really sitting down and working on full stage chains then come back and see how you feel.

So don't do that? It's very versatile for a shooter so there's bound to be a playstyle you'd like more.

>>2777558
yeah those rpg elements really ruined it

>>2777593

people only give attention to that shit because it's by square. only way to play STG is by score and einhander is just a shitty survival game

>>2777594
>only way to play STG is by score

>>2777594

Be a bit more subtle next time.

>>2777594
Square only published it though. Stay well informed, pleb.

>>2777551
Ghosts N Goblins, the only platformer that requires you to 2-ALL it.

>>2777551
>>2777602

I'm certain a lot of people who claim to be hardcore couldn't beat the Adventure Island games on the NES without abusing savestates.

I beat my first shmup recently, Axelay.
I didnt find it that difficult. There is here in /vr/ a poster who always shows up to say only shmups are difficult in threads about hard games, but Axelay seemed much easier to me than Super Ghouls n Ghosts for example, anyway, I enjoyed it a lot.

Recommend me some other shmup for Genesis or SNES.
My only condition is that it is excellent and has excellent music.
I downloaded covers of the tracks of the first three stages of Axelay because I ended up liking them so much, really good music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4_rZ0yFOpY

>>2777609

how dare you play a STF that isn't made after 2000 and isn't about scoring instead of survival!

play Thunder Force III and IV on the Genesis

>>2777614
>STF
Shoot The Faggots?

>>2777615

Shoot The Fandom (same thing)

>>2777614
Thunderforce games are boring as piss. I could clear them in my sleep. At least scoring adds an extra element of depth to the genre once you master the survival aspect.

>>2777609
I am gonna play those once I finish the other game I am playing (I am on the sixth dungeon of Equinox)

>>2777623
That message was intended to this message.

>>2777614

>>2777618

I agree, only way to play STG is score, anything else is pleb kiddy babby's first tier

>>2777634
Everyone knows that.

>>2777638

Not everyone, looks at all these kiddy pleb tier plebeians casual kiddy plebeians that only play survivals and don't even play touhou

Best character? I don't really like playing as anyone, robot guy seems most powerful.

>>2777835
Goku because bullet erasing.

>>2777472
The Amiga version was some goodass shit. Like, competent gameplay and lack of overly bulletspongey enemies.

People are too hard on Eurofag shit in general - it's like you don't even Apidya. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL35iG7Q8vk

Hybris was also some goodass shit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QBStOhiIzA

Project X was okay. Not as tight a Gradius clone as Apidya and not much originality at all but it was decent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjq-ONi3dZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZlITRk0T2w Shit, even the ZX Spectrum got some quality. Awful sound, but actual scrolling! Not even the MSX's chuggy Gradius games got that.

>>2777835
Valnus, because
>ROCKETTO PANCH
>VALNUS BLASTAH

>>2777923
I'm using him, iron nigga's stronk.

>>2777594
>einhander is just a shitty survival game
Fuck sake at least get it right, einhander has a shit ton of scoring depth go watch a superplay.

>>2777521
Neither of those games com even close to good shmups in terms of difficulty.

>>2778192

I was just making fun of you scoring-whore autists

>>2778195
bruh you been baited hard

So how long before mushi for steam ends up on torrents?

>>2778346
More or less immediately, I'm sure, but if you want to play it for free, you can just emulate it.

>>2778428
>you can just emulate it.
1.5 was never dumped.

>>2778323
Accurate.

>>2778323
If it only was as simple as that.

>>2778323
The funny thing about this picture is this is exactly what cave horis so far have been, there same tired formulae just stuffed into horizontal orientation.

My absolute favorite Schmup is Space Megaforce/super Alleste. Everything in that game is so satirfying, music, graphics, soundtrack, and the weapons, 2 most favorites being circle and laser, and missiles are good as well. Hell, every weapon is good.
R-type series in general is my other go to, Final being my favorite.

>>2778484
>Schmup
spot the pleb.
>R-type series in general is my other go to, Final being my favorite.
spotted the pleb.

Why do people pretend Touhou is good? If you're going to play shitty bullet hell verts you may as well just stick with Cave.

>>2778595
Why do you keep bringing up Touhou when no one's talking about it?

>>2778603

This thread doesn't exist in a vacuum tho?

>>2778605
What a pathetic excuse. Go complain about it somewhere it's actually relevant.

>>2778610

It's not relevant to complain about a shitty Shoo Ting Game game series in a Shoo Ting Game general?

>>2778616
Yes, because it constantly gets its own threads, isn't retro, isn't talked about on here much and inevitably causes shitposting which is exactly what you want. Fuck off.

>>2778618
>isn't retro
>had a bunch of games released for the pc98

Hate to break it to ya bud, but Touhou is shite.

>>2778595
People who play Touhou play them for the animu girls. They love this kitchy waifu stuff. Also Cave probably would be too difficult for them.

>>2778484
>R-Type Final
>favorite

I see you never played any previous ones.

>>2778698

>still having this meme opinion

>>2778648
Well, you think what you want, but Touhou is basically what opened the whole STG/SHMUP genre for me, and bullet hells in particular.

I like me some Cave, btw. Favourite is Dodonpachi.

You are correct that I'm not very good at it, but hey I have fun playing.

>>2778706
Of course some will make the jump to other bullet hell games, but most people still play touhou because of the waifu shit in it and around it. They would probably also play these games if they were rythm games or puzzle games, as long as they have the waifus in it.

>>2778703
>meme opinion

>>>/v/

>>2778706
Most people stick to touhou because it's great at giving the illusion of difficult compared to cave that actually is difficult.

>>2778742
>>2778706
Well, the biggist difference between Cave and Touhuo I'd say is the speed of the bullets. This really stood out to me when I started playing Dodonpachi. I needed to memorize a lot more.

The Touhou games might have a bit more bullets at times though, but they're comparatively slow.

Man why don't they just make a shmup that everyone likes?

>>2778746
It's not just the speed of the bullets, it's the pacing of the patterns. Touhou actually announces each pattern and gives you a few seconds to prepare before it starts. Cave games only give you a break before/after (mini)bosses.

>>2778810
They already have. You can go horizontal, vertical, play for score, and play for survival.

>>2778810

It's called Gradius 5. Based Treasure does it again.

>>2778894
Vita port when

>>2778810
Hail to the King, baby.

>>2778987
>not G Darius

>>2778987
>>2779004
I like them both a lot.

Actually, I don't get much agreement on this, but Darius is my favorite STG series.

>>2779030
Neon Light Illusion was the most psychedelic boss in that game.

I only wish the home ports could've had the per-scanline luminosity trick that the arcade hardware had. The background behind that boss looked 10x better in the real hardware because of that - and not even MAME gets the effect done.

>>2778832
that anon said shmup, though.

WE ARE LIVE
THIS IS NOT A DRILL
I REPEAT
WE ARE LIVE
THIS IS NOT A DRILL
http://store.steampowered.com/app/377860/

Daily reminder that the term "Memorizer" got distorted by danmaku babbies in order let games with level design look bad and boring.

>>2779251
All shmups require memorization to 1cc though (well, maybe not Compile shmups).

>tfw you finally get to this stage on your own
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NreCewV_epc

>>2779249
>DLC for 1.5
l m a o
m
a
o


Not buying.

>>2779271
Exactly, that's also why the term is distorted.
Usually it means games which force you to memorize in order to play through them, like R-Type or Gradius, because they punish you so heavily when dying.

Danmaku babbies made it sound like R-type is just a memorizer though because it would need more memorization than other games, which is not true.

This would all be solved if shmups had regenerating health.

>>2779281
>Not buying.
Me either until they at least get the launch sale price right, £20 is just to much imo.

>>2779249

[level design intensifies]

>>2779331
give it a rest

>>2778894
>no Moai
Absolute shit, 0/10

Nah, Gradius 5 is great, but the music and environments aren't as good as previous Gradius games. Gaiden is my favorite.

>>2779336

There's no time to rest when this many bullets are flying at you! Oh god Cave just take me now

>>2779249
>2015
>No resolution options in fullscreen
Refunded. At least you tried.

Honestly, I expected better given Degica's recent releases having proper settings. Sasuga japanese PC releases.

>>2779249
this is the first cave game i've played

it feels really good

>>2779342
There's zoom option. For 2d game it's the same thing, unless you expected them to redraw it.

>>2779292
/vr/ should love Toaplan shmups then, they combine the best aspect of shmups (heavy punishment for dying) and the best aspect of danmaku (good scoring systems).

torrent when?

>>2779424
>torrent when?
It's already on hosting sites so no need to torrent, google mushihimesama HI2U and use some google fu.

I like Thunder Force 4, Gate of Thunder, and Winds of Thunder.

I don't like Thunder Force 3 because all the bosses die in 2 seconds even on the hardest difficulty.

I also like R-Type 1 but hate all the sequels.

As you can see I like horizontal shmups that have background obstacles and variety in the levels.


The only high quality vertical shmup that I know of that is similar is Super Aleste. It's good. Very good.

As for other Compile shmups: Musha Aleste is mediocre. I refuse to play Spriggan 1 for the PCE because your ship looks so goofy. Yes, I am that shallow. Tried a bit of Sylphia. Pretty good but can't remember if it had background obstacles or not.

Thanks for reading.

Oh, I also like Toaplan classic shmups like Twin Cobra, Flying Shark, and others like Raiden. But only with autofire.

Bye now.

>>2779030

All the Darius games are fantastic provided you ignore the crappy ports the first two games had.
This includes Twin.
HG101 parroters gonna parrot.

>>2779494
Sagaia wasn't that bad.

I'm kind of new to shmups in the sense that I would play them in arcades but never really played them at home or cared for them. I've been playing Crimzon Clover lately and love Mushihimesama. What Saturn shmups should I get along those lines?

>>2779837
I don't thik Saturn has any Cave style games, but it has other games
>Radiant Silvergun
>Layer Section II
>Imagefight + X-Multiply
>Shienryu
>Soukyugurentai
>Cotton 2

>>2779995
Donpachi and Dodonpachi are on Saturn.

>>2779438
Yeah we get it you only like old shit games that you have nostalgia attached to and hate everything else because you can't get out of your comfy slump to learn any other game.

>>2779995
>not mentioning battle garegga or batsugun

>>2778826
Thinking about it, yeah that's also true.

>>2780141

someone liking retro games on a retro board? HERESY!

>>2780156
Incorrect it's actually someone liking a very very select few retro games of a genre due to nostalgia and cuntiness and using that as the basis of calling everything else shit.

>>2780184

But he never called anything else shit, you touhou-loving millennial.

>>2780186
Neither a touhan fan nor a millenial you weird assumption plucking thunder cunt and he does constantly call everything else shit.

>>2780187

>he does constantly

Are you schizophrenic by chance?

>>2780190
>Are you schizophrenic by chance?
No and my friend dave on the empty chair can vouch for me. Are you an old cunt by chance?

>>2780202

No, I'm not an old cunt.
Just be sure to not claim this or that anonymous "constantly" do things. Schizophrenia and image boards are a bad cocktel for your mental health.

>>2780208
And that's your angle? some bizarre unrelated ad hominem to distract from the reality of what i said, thet you're just a shit player and a nostalgia horse galloping along with those blinkers firmly fitted for every other type of stg.

>>2780221

Get medicated.

>>2780223
You lost mate you've been exposed like sasha greys bumhole, back to bed to reminisce over being good at shit old games.

>>2780224

but I'm not the other anon you were talking to, anon. I'm your imaginary friend.

psst, you should jump out the window, I've heard if you do, you can become a danmaku god and beat even the japanese players!

>>2780231
Now now old buddy you're getting worked up and we can't have your troublesome incontinence dribbling feces on the pc-engine again now can we? Would you like a fresh nappy?

I 1cc'd Eschatos Original Hard for the first time with a 31M score.

Still need to go for 40M later.

>>2780242
Nice one, keep going it'l come. I had a 175 mill katsui run this morning to 2-4, closing in on that 200mil/2all goal.

>>2780141
If your first shmups were danmaku then perhaps the same could be said of yourself.

Is Border Down the greatest hori of all time?

fug.

>>2779995
>>2779996
Thanks bros. I have Twinkle Star Sprites too, it was an old arcade fav of mine.

Are there any NES vertical shmups that are highly regarded by this thread? My experience growing up with the NES were the psuedo-not-really-shmups like Ikari Warriors or Guerilla War, that required you to move around for the camera to move.

>>2780186
Pretty sure most people here are millenials as they are classified as having been born between 1980-2000.

>>2780501
I enjoy Crisis Force, Recca and Sky Shark but overall the verts on NES aren't all that good. There's also games like Legendary Wings and Dragon Spirit that people seem to like but I never got into.

>>2780291
>If your first shmups were danmaku
They weren't I grew up on salamander on the c64.

>>2780390
>Is Border Down the greatest hori of all time?
One of them imo, the sound track and atmosphere are fantastic aswell in that game. Grev should come to steam.

>>2780184
>calling everything else shit.

Are you retarded? Where does he say that?

>>2780187
>constantly call everything else shit

Oh, I see. Yes. You are retarded.

>>2777915
X2 is pretty cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7WUBrxf09I

>>2780584
Funny I started on danmaku before learning to appreciate shmups with level design. So much for the nostalgia theory.

>>2780626
Shitflinging aside the only thing anyone's said that he could be referring to is that bullet hell don't have level design, and that's not calling them shit. Bullet hells don't usually have much in the way of level design. It's true and if you're an intellectually honest and aware bullet hell fan you should have no trouble acknowledging that fact because it's part of the flavor that draws you to that style.

tl;dr butthurt faggot

>>2780676
Horis don't usually have much in the way of level design because they have less enemies and bullets.

>>2780690
Horis have at least just as many enemies, if not even more.

Shouldnt this thread be in /vg/ if you people prefer shooters made after the year 2000 and despise everything made before the Saturn/Playstation generation?

You'd think /vr/ would love Silvergun, since it's basically R-Type flipped on its side with a fun scoring system and lots of cool bosses.

What /vr/ doesn't seem to understand is that bullets give better level design than static wall boxes. There's a reason those types of shmups like Gradius and R-Type died off: nobody cares about weaving through boring static levels when you could be dodging complex swathes of bullets instead.

>>2780785

REEEE LEVEL HAZARDS

>>2780791
You are acting like Bullet Hell didn't die off too... Have fun with your Touhou 36.

Bullet Hell was just the last desperate attempt to make some money with this genre, because it is cheaper to create some interesting gameplay by just spawning bullets instead of creating well orchestrated level design.

>>2779438
>I also like R-Type 1 but hate all the sequels.

I can understand not liking Final, but what's wrong with Delta?

>>2780829
>because it is cheaper
Do you have any source on that?

>>2780839
It's pretty obvious, that only having to code bullet spirals is a lot easier and cheaper to do, than designing, modelling and coding all kinds of environmental hazards and obstacles.

Just look at Mushihimesama... The whole game basically just consists of pink bullet spirals, enemies with some pretty background slapped on it.

Now compare this to Gradius 5 where you have all kinds of things, from meteroids flying at you, to poison gas killing you in a rotating corridor, to all kinds of bullet styles and enemies... It's way more complex and diversified.

>>2780846
>It's way more complex and diversified.
It's also way more cheaper because my ass knows better than yours.

>>2780846
Art aside, for an environmental hazard all you have to do is create a hitbox and make it move in a direction constantly. You can literally do this in minutes in any of the popular game engines. Making the average bullet spiral is far more time consuming and difficult because you have to fuck around with timers and other shit.

>>2780849
>cheaper

Because your mind has to register that there's more to a level than enemies?

>>2780856
The bullets in bullet hells supplement the level design. Most horis that use wall hazards have simple and predictable bullet patterns.

>>2780854
Environmental hazards also take a lot of coding and creating assets. Not to mention that the enemies in horis are also much more complex than in bullet hells.

>>2780885
What kind of coding do they take? Guide me through it, please!

>>2780885
The mathematical algorithms that go into creating bullet patterns in danmaku are far more laborious than copypasting hitboxes throughout a level and slapping some spritework over them, you dingus.

>>2780887
All kinds of coding... Take the blue laser in R-Type for example. It was a pain for the devs to code the way the laser reflects on the surfaces. In bullet hells you would never have these problems, since the games just consist of bullet patterns and some background graphic.

>>2780892
So now you're not talking about level design? Convenient. You do realize that vertical shooters and bullet hell games have plenty of pain-in-the-ass projectiles as well? Rayforce-style bendy lasers being an obvious one.

>>2780891
They aren't difficult at all. I'm not sure why you get the impression they are.

>>2780891
Environmental hazards are more than just creating a wall and putting some hitbox on it you retard. Take the exploding suns from the beginning of Gradius 5 for example. This all took its own coding, assets and animations.

>>2780894
I was talking about the coding it took for the laser to reflect on the surfaces. In Bullet hell you will never see such coding, because there is nothing your shots can reflect on.

Jesus you cuntbags will make tribal sides out of anything... anyone here like me and loves the whole genre no matter the screen orientation or style?

>>2780905
I know what you're talking about, it's just that it's irrelevant to the levels and the way they're designed. I'm sure there's at least one bullet hell which had projectiles that bounce around the screen pong/break out-style anyway.

>>2780908
Most people do, it's just one retard pushing the vertical vs horizontal meme in every thread despite the fact that if you like one style, chances are you like the other.

>>2780909
It's not irrelevant at all, because the coding had to do with the environment and how it reflects on it.

>>2780913
Are you saying that the way in which your projectiles behave is relevant to level design? Interesting.

>>2780915
Projectiles which can interact with the environment are relevant to level design. In bullet hell you have no environment, only pretty background graphics.

>>2780917
>Projectiles which can interact with the environment are relevant to level design
Why?

>>2780895
More difficult than level structures? Yes.

>>2780908
I certainly do not love every style in this genre. Cave fans are almost Touhou retard-tier in my eyes, which is basically MLP retard-tier already.

>>2780923
Is this bait or are you retarded? The statement doesn't leave anything in question. If the level and projectiles can interact between each other they are relevant to each other.

>>2780978
Except they have absolutely no effect on what the anon defines as "level design", which are environmental hazards. The only thing they meaningfully interract with are the enemies.

>>2780735
It used to be but shmupfags subconciously know their genre is dead and prefer to post here.

>>2780501
Zanac and Gun Nac are good. Also Guardian Legend, but that includes the free-roaming "adventure" stages, kinda like the on-foot parts of Blaster Master.

>>2781032
>Gun Nac
What's the appeal of this? Over half of the game can be beaten by just getting the shot that tracks your enemies and staying in place. Then when the game actually does give you challenge it mostly comes in the form of really tanky enemies and you've got so many extra lives at that point that mistakes don't even matter.

>>2776328
nope

>>2781007
>what the anon defines as "level design", which are environmental hazards
Wrong, level design is everything in the level. Don't assume everyone is as simple-minded as you and thinks level design is ONE THING.

>Except they have absolutely no effect on [...] environmental hazards
Wrong, environmental hazards can be movable and destructable.

>The only thing they meaningfully interract with are the enemies.
I'm not surprised your danmaku loving ass doesn't understand basic fundamental truths so here we go. In shmups with level design, the enemies interact with the level. They go around things, they hide behind things. The player also interacts with the level in a similar way such that the avenues of attacking, defending and dodging are woven into where you are in the level. The bouncing laser in R-Type meaningfully interacts with all of these elements because it opens new avenues of attack by bouncing off walls into areas that you otherwise couldn't reach without crashing into something. These subtleties can never be created with bullets.

>>2781045
>Wrong, level design is everything in the level
That's my entire point, you dimwitted cunt. The way enemies move around the level is just as much of a part of level design as environmental hazards are.

>>2776682
autist detected

>>2781042
>not playing post-avant roguelite STG

>>2781047
Now you're just being dense. It's just as much a part but if it's the only part that shows up in a game then that game lacks level design. If your hamburger lacks everything but tomato then it lacks hamburger design. This has even been said at least once before, I know because I was the one who said it. Sick way to dodge a thoughtful post with a terrible non-sequitur thought terminating cliche though.

>>2781058
>if your hot dog lacks tomato then it lacks hamburger design

>>2779331
[autism intensifies]

>>2781062
Likening it to saying a hotdog has hamburger design implies that vertical shmups should not have levels. Are you sure?

>>2781058
>if it's the only part that shows up in a game then that game lacks level design
Except it ISN'T the only part that shows up in the games, you utter twat? You could argue that the level design is less complex/deep, but that would be an entirely different argument.

>>2781071
>You could argue that the level design is less complex/deep, but that would be an entirely different argument.

No it wouldn't, that's exactly what we've been discussing for several threads.

>>2781072
"The games have no level design" and "this game's level design is boring" are two completely different statements. The former being something a fucking retard would say, the latter being something that could actually be argued and defended.

>>2781049
>>2781064

If I had autism I'd be playing bullet hells lel come on at least make sure your insults make sense

>>2781073
And what causes levels to be boring? Perhaps it's because they weren't say it with me well designed

>>2781076
Or maybe it depends on player's preference you autistic twat.

>>2781076
By saying that they're poorly designed, you're saying that while it was intentionally designed, that design does not work well. By saying that they have no level design, you're implying that there was no intentional design in the first place. Do you honestly not see the difference between those two statements?

>>2781080
Maybe. I wouldn't know because nobody has called anything boring but that other guy making hypothetical statements as examples.

>>2781083
If you refuse to design you still have made a design. It creates an absurdity where it's not wrong to say that there's level design or that there's not level design.

>>2781094
That's why I added "intentional". And bullet hell games very clearly have intentional level design, to suggest otherwise is insane.

>>2781103

Intentionally shitty level design.

>>2781103
No it's not insane, you just haven't understood the absurdity. A designer said 'no fuck this I'm not going to design a level, here's a shitload of bullets' (I'm paraphrasing). That was his design.

>>2781110
Is that why enemies follow paths on the background in waves that lead you to the side of the screen where an elite enemy pops out of? Because they didn't bother designing levels?

>>2781110
Was something created intentionally? Sure. Did the designer design a level? No. Does the game have level design? It's up to your bias.

>>2781119
No they do those things because that's neat. It's an enemy encounter not a level though.

>>2781124
I have no idea why I'm wasting my time trying to explain to you what should be obvious to anyone with even the slightest experience in designing or even thinking about designing levels

>>2781128
Feel free to stop any time.

>>2774257
>>2741730
>Whatever happened to the shmup general?
Threads like this one.

>>2781132
Shmup General was fueled by arguments like this. It's when the arguments stopped that it died.

Any good horis coming out recently besides the new Darius?

>>2781147
If 4-5 people saying the same things to each other for hundreds of posts is the fuel for these threads, the threads should be moved to /vg/ where they'll still be the best on the board.

>>2780735
Tell that to the Doom generals who play WADs and engines made after the year 2000.

>>2781174
They use to be on /vg/, no idea why this one isn't there instead. The whole point was for generals to have a place.

Thoughts on the Ray series? Pic related is one of my all time favorites, but I never got around to playing Storm or Crisis.

played cotton for the first time tonite, and it's great. is it just me or did that imperishable nite guy basically rip off everything abot cotton for his touhou little girl shit? :D

>>2781235
RayStorm's more of the same which is great because RayForce is amazing. The stages aren't as memorable and the music's less catchy, but the gameplay is still just as tight and the bosses are awesome.

>>2781246
>touhou invented little girls

What are the best shmups for the PCE-CD?

-Spriggan
-Gates of Thunder
-Lords of Thunder
-Sylphia


What else?

>>2781235
RayForce is easily my favorite shmup of all. Rock solid stage design and 11/10 quality presentation.
RayStorm is pretty nifty. Didn't like it too much before (especially next to RayForce), but something seems to have clicked with me about it, it's pretty damn good.

RayCrisis has yet to click with me, but I love its style.
the encroachment system is weird as fuck

>>2781152
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1ZmsVsyj5Q

>>2781260
Parodius

What's your guys tate setup for Mushihimesama? I have the main screen at the bottom, then the current score and high school side by side at the top

>>2781438
>high school side

>>2781246
The rabbit hole goes even deeper than that. Most Touhou games are just crappy clones of CAVE+Taito, with shit scoring systems that force you to graze bullets until a timer runs out. Not to mention the horrible art/graphics and cacophony music.

Not sure how anyone can like that tripe.

Glad i didn't buy the steam release of mushi, the game is kind of shit desu. Why does cave have such retarded design like "hey lets make an old school mode with super fast bullets then litter it with annoying slowdown everywhere" and completely ruin the point of fast bullets in the first place, annoying as fuck. It's been all down hill for cave since ketsui and ibara which were the peaks of awesomeness.

>>2780413
Alright, cleared arrange. Had 1 extend surplus, which just slightly pushed me past my previous score.

Well, time for ultra.

>>2778706
Same for me. Touhou 7 has been my gateway to shmups. I never cared about the waifus but I liked the patterns and music.Then I moved on to Dodonpachi and Mars Matrix. I also play horis like Gradius and Darius. Why do horis fans shit on verts and vice-versa ? There are shit games and good ones in both genre.

>>2777487
>memeup
hello r/4chan

>>2781738
>Why do horis fans shit on verts and vice-versa ?
Honestly they don't its a phenomena i only see in these threads that just seems to be old cunts who have issues with moving with the times or those who just have to bring that football team mentality to everything.

>>2781738
You shouldn't assume that the shoot'em'up community on 4chan is indicative of the shoot'em'up community as a whole.

>>2781854
How's it a moving with the times if verts predate horis?

>>2781854
>tfw the last guy who said that about me ended up being a commodore oldfuck

Or maybe, some people regardless of age just like level design.

>>2781870
It is. The others don't go around calling each others fags because moderation but they're pretty much the same. If anything the people on 4chan can be more welcoming to newcomers.

I think it's like a dogs vs. cats thing where they're both popular and enjoyable pets but some people only like cats and some people only like dogs (and a minority enjoys both).

Partly it's down to temperament and partly it's down to what you played first or what first really hooked you, like I played a lot of vertical euro shmups as a kid (tyrian/raptor/major stryker), but my buddy played a lot of horis (darius/fantasy zone) so we gravitate to those styles of game

Both have their merits and some games on both sides have been designed by very talented people

Where are my fun loving wingmen at!?

I haven't played anything in a while. I want play something fresh with cool-as-shit gimmicks. Any recommendations? Preferable something not all too common either. I am looking for something that might have slipped under my radar.

Shoot away!

>>2782043
Galaga 88

>>2782046
>Galaga 88
Sure enough, 88 has slipped under my radar. Thanks champ, looks pretty cool!

>>2781985
The funny thing is that both posts are in fact me.

>>2781990
I prefer it here desu even though i've been on shmups forum for years it's just to fucking uptight and spergy for me, I like being able to chill and call someone a cunt whilst engaging in shmups discussion.

>>2781738
I have no problem with verts. What I dislike are Cave drones. No wonder they all come from Touhou...

>>2778721
>>2781738

Let's establish something. I may temporarily grant all the bullshit that has been said about touhou so far, but can we please just stop pretending that anybody ever plays this game for the fucking waifus?

>>2782161
Most people who play Touhou play all kinds of waifu games. They are the same people who also play rythm games or visual novels, just as long they have waifus in them.

>>2782161
>anybody ever plays this game for the fucking waifus?

You think people would play Touhou if the cute girls were replaced with ships? May as well just play a Cave game instead.

>>2782192
>cute girls
People may fap to the doujins but no one actually likes the girls in game

>>2781037
>>2781032
I can't believe the increase in price Gun Nac has gone through. It went from $30ish to $150ish in five years.

>>2782198
You take that back, Sakuya is best girl.

>>2782237
She looks like a potato

>>2782192
>implying Cave games aren't full of waifu pilots too

>>2782192
What about DOJ, SDOJ, Pink Sweets, Deathsmiles and Muchi?

>>2782294
In DOJ at least they stay inside the ships and only pop up to strangle you to death in the ending.

>>2782365
That only happens with Exy.

>>2781235
can't wait for R-Gear to get dumped

how do i learn to not be shit with an arcade stick

>>2782532
Is it really worth it to learn how to stick? I've been using keyboards all this time and I'm starting to feel kinda bad for not using sticks.

>>2782532
>>2782539
Never force yourself to use a control method you aren't comfortable with it's pointless as fuck. The best control method is whatever you feel most comfort with whether stick,pads,keyboard whatever.

>>2782471
No one uses Shotia or Leinyan.

>>2782559
That's the joke.

>>2782118
>No wonder they all come from Touhou...
Where the fuck do you get all those fallacies from?

last week I beat Axelay for the first time (first time I play and beat a shmup)
this week I beat it without continues for the first time.
In the second loop (hard mode), I finally had to use a continue, it reset my score to 0, and I lost all motivation to continue playing.

>>2782706
You did good, friend! Axelay is neat. Now go play something else!

>>2782706
Fuck, that fucking game man. Shit I didn't remember playing it until you mentioned it, that was some really cool shit, keep going man but try something else aswell.

why are stages 4 and 7 so fucking hard in gradius 1

they're literally the only ones to give me a hard time now

>>2783045
4 is an unlucky number in Japanese lore. 7's level is supposed to be hard because the final boss is a joke.

Are there shmups in which you can choose in options easy difficulty level for a 5 or 6 years old kid?

>>2783114

Any tips for the fucking volcano?

I've tried three times now and I lose all my lives at that cheap ass motherfucking shit fuck volcano. Feels like a quarter-grabbing ploy.

>>2783713
i usually make sure to have missiles and go to the top left of the screen so you're out the way of most of the rocks and you can missile any coming towards you

>>2783697

Might not be exactly what you're looking for, but most arcade games (through MAME) will happily let you keep playing as long as you keep hitting the 'coin' button.

It's the home console versions mostly that will throw that old school limited continues/git gud bullshit at you.

Armed Police Batrider was my favorite back when I had a MAME setup

>>2783737
>as long as you keep hitting the 'coin' button.
And learning nothing, don' encourage plebdom

Anyone familiar with Sky Soldier? A local arcade just opened up that has this, and I want to dominate the high score. Any tips would be appreciated.

>>2783937
Nah, throwing runs away will just make you frustrated. Keep going even if you use a continue, the feeling of progress alone will make you feel accomplished.

>>2783957
Creditfeeding just feels shallow and brings you nothing. When you use a credit, your run is already ruined anyway, since your score gets set to zero.

Just use savestates as level select and practice every level until you have it down.

how do i git gud at stage 5 in gradius 5

Sorry to bother. Trying to run Darius Gaiden from taito legends on PS2 emulator but there's a bunch of vertical black lines on the sprites? I've tried playing around with the settings but they're still there. Is there any known fix?

>>2784063
why not play it with mame?

The new 3D release of Fantasy Zone, I heard it has different games built into it in the US release than in the JP release. Is this true? I've never played Fantasy Zone but it seems really neato.

>>2783971
>Just use savestates

>>2783957
Bullshit if you're the type that gets frustrated so easily then you don't deserve progress, go find another genre. Sometimes il go a good hr+ before i get a ketsui run going don't see me pleb raging or credit feeding though just keep working on it and thinking about your errors, utilize save states and watch other players runs for ideas and that's how you improve. Fuck the cheapened experience of credit feeding.

>>2783971
>Creditfeeding just feels shallow and brings you nothing. When you use a credit, your run is already ruined anyway, since your score gets set to zero.
>Just use savestates as level select and practice every level until you have it down.
This guy is spot on.

>>2784120
Savestates are a tool to build the necessary skill and knowledge before you put it all together in full runs so suck a dick with your retard skill hindering attitude and stay pleb.

>>2784098
I am not actually sure what you are asking. But in 3D Fantasy Zone you can choose to play the international or japanese version of the game. On top of that they also added some other secrets.

3D Fantasy Zone 2 has a new minigame though called Loop de Loop Land, which is an endless shooter, which is really neat.

Can't remember if it was 1 or 2, but they added a mode where you can use your coin total as ammunition, with a quick shop menu on the touch screen.

All the same, both are brilliant, and I think you should invest.

>>2784132
Do you not see the inherent contradiction you just posted?

>>2784129
>credit feeding
>cheapened experience

>copying other players' strategies
>not a cheapened experience

>>2777054
You realize it changes between horizontal and vert. How retarded are you

I don't get what people have against credit feeding. You get access to the whole game, you get to touch on everything in it, and after you beat it, you can decide if it is something you really want to invest your time into.

I tend to beat games over and over. Eventually practice across all levels will make you better as a whole, and the variety motivates you.

For every run you use fewer credits, and eventually you may be running 1cc loops. So long as someone is having fun shooting things, and achieving new personal bests, it shouldn't matter.

If anything savestate runs, playing level 4 over and over again until you can play it like a mozart symphony one-handed sounds more tedious than fun. But I see the value it has in practising for perfect runs. But it is hardly a method I would recommend to anyone for enjoying themselves. It's a method that delivers results though.

>>2784169
The arcade paradigm's biggest downfall is the chaos and confusion it causes. There's no way to just play a shmup. You have to be indoctrinated into a philosophy and choose whether you're in 'practice mode' or doing 'runs' and what what practices you personally exercise and then you have to think backwards for reasons to justify what you already decided to do and why it's the best way to play and everyone who plays differently is autistic. It's a load of shit. Just look at your post. Who fucking cares.

>>2784136
There is no contradiction. When you only credit feed then you practice less efficient, because you always have to redo the first levels again, plus you use savestates, then you can prctice better because repeating one level over and over again helps you much more to memorize it.

>>2784169
If you think repeating something over and over again is tedious, then I think this genre isn't really for you.

I personally often feel my run is already ruined even if I only lose 1 life. I often can't help myself but restart if this happens. Credit feeding might be cool for just one time playing through the game, but after this you want to be able to beat it, and for this savestates are much better.

Scores? We don't need a score display. Who cares what your score is if your play is immersive, you're paying more attention to what you do in the game.

>>2783713
You mean stage 1 volcano or stage 4 volcano?

They both involve staying in one spot and shooting a lot.

Unless you mean the one in middle of stage 4, in that case grab your lasers and move all over the screen and stay as far back as you can, at some point it just stops shooting rocks and you can safely proceed.

>angrily arguing over credit feeding vs. savestates

This fucking thread.

I dont understand how the powerups work in Parodius for SNES (the one that was released in Europe), and there is no article in gamefaqs.
Anybody knows?

>>2784556

I've always liked shoot em ups as a kid. Stumbled onto this thread, holy fucking shit.

> the way I play is the only way to play

> your way to play is human excrement and you are an excrement-eater

I now think this board needs IDs like /pol/

>>2784140
>>copying other players' strategies
>>not a cheapened experience
Another idiot who doesn't have the personal experience to understand what it is to watch a superplay and ADAPT ideas and strategies to suit your own ability/level. The fact you imply anyone could literally just copy other players shows how clueless and low end skill you are as everyone does things a little different, daft cunt.

>>2784136
The fact you think a contradiction exists proves how ignorant you are to proven strategies for efficient learning. As it has already been explained better than I why don't you go read prometheus's guide to practice "full extent of the jam"?

>>2784535
This but not sarcastically.

>>2784617
>>2784620

>>>/v/

>>>/vg/

>>2784169
The "fun" of finally hitting a personal best strong run of a game you've been working instantly out weighs the practice struggle to get there in fact the frustration just makes it more bitter sweet.... credit feeding kills all that and i find progression super fun so repeating a stage over and over until improvement becomes visible is always fun for me especially when something clicks or you have a new idea that turns out to be fruitful.

>>2784620
I'm not talking about efficiency, I'm talking about how he said using credits ruins the run but savestates don't. Yes yes when savestating you're 'not doing a serious run' but you could say the same thing about using credits. And I've read that arrogant trash you can shove the full extent of it up your ass.

>>2784640
It's so funny how you're so hostile towards method actual decent players use, wtf is your best achievement in the genre? be honest. The reason for that is your crummy credit feed approach drags you down massively and although good runs are possible that way i guarantee it will take you a shit ton longer. In b4 muhh fun.

>tfw not good enough for Ikaruga T.T

>>2784648
Funny how you know what ideas I'm hostile to without me saying so. I savestate asshole.

>>2784632
Can't imagine anyone who played a shmup for a long time thinking that. Don't you naturally do little side-challenges for the early stages you've mastered? Like killing the hard to reach enemies or killing everything as fast as you can.

>>2784654
>I savestate asshole.
I bet that's not all you do with asshole.

mods plz delete this thread

too many bullys

>>2784657
kek

>>2784656
Don't see what that has to do with it. Whether you're doing such mini-challenges or just following a maximal score route, the important part is being immersed. Score is a way to achieve this but not the only way.

>>2784662
Remove score and you remove routine and execution, every game would be a joke as kusoplay strats would always be enough and 1cc the only thing to do, fuck dumbing these games down.

>>2784662
Yeah, so why say "who cares about score" when in many games it's a massive contributing factor to immersion?

>>2784670
To be honest I said it because I knew it would rumple someone's butt (Hi >>2784668). It doesn't rumple my butt to say it because score is a meme motivator to master stages that should be fun enough to want to master by themselves, or play games more than they deserve.

>>2784668

Ew you can tell this guy is danmaku scum

>>2784680
>score is a meme motivator to master stages that should be fun enough to want to master by themselves

Sure, but what do you do after you master them? Without score or some similar system all you'll be doing is repeating the same easy routine over and over again.

>>2784683
All shmups require the same approach to git gud at.

>>2784680
Sorry son no ruffled feathers here, I will correct misinformation regardless anyway.

>>2784686

Play another game.

>>2784686
>Sure, but what do you do after you master them?
You stop playing.

>>2784687
I'll oblige and correct some of your own, starting with your misinformed notion that you like shmups

>every game would be a joke

You now realize how you really feel about shmups. Go forth and shmup no more.

>>2784689
That's not how it works unless you're some kind of superhuman player who can 1cc games in a few attempts. In practice you'll be spending most of your time redoing the first few stages to progress a bit further.

>>2784691
I don't understand what you're trying to say. You do that until you master the stages and then play another game.

>>2784696
You'll master stage 1 long before you even get anywhere near the final stage. Do you suggest dropping a game before you even finish it?

>>2784689
There isn't enough shmups out there to keep you going for to long if you remove scoring.

>>2784690
Oh you think moving the goalposts and removing an actual element then replacing it with a fictitious notion makes a feasible point. Football matches without goals.... that'd be shit no? oh i must hate football then i guess. Dickhead.

>>2784703
In addition, what if I don't want to play something else but want to keep playing the game I like? Why would you advocate for removing additional challenge and depth from it?

>>2784703
Oh. No. Only after you master all the stages.

>>2784704
Oh I'm laffin you think scoring is as integral to shmups as goals are to football. I'd call you out for being a new-age danmaku dipshit for believing such nonsense but I don't want to be as presumptuous as you've been so I'll just leave it at concluding you're an idiot.

>>2784709
>what if I want to keep playing the game I like but I don't like it enough to keep playing it

You re-examine your initial assumption about how much you like the game.

>>2784714
Im an idiot with far better scores than you'l ever achieve, keep plebbing. The example is spot on as both football and shmups can be played for score or can be played with aimless casualness ie plebby credit feeders and ppl kicking about down the park. You silly son of a cunt.

>>2784718
That doesn't make any sense. When a game runs out of challenge for you it's inevitable that you'll get bored of it, no matter how good the game is.

>>2784718
>You re-examine your initial assumption about how much you like the game.
The scoring system IS part of the fucking game you dumb cunt so liking it is liking the game. You're probably a dumb shit who just thinks of graphics and music only "hurrr i lyk dis theme". People love chess for the actual game element and not to wank over the rook yet someone who plays to win isn't told "hurrr u shud ply other game u dont really like chess ". I literally hope you die of cancer in front of your mother.

>>2784720
I'm confident I could smash your scores but I won't because I don't want to support your mistaken notion that it matters in a discussion.

The example is not spot-on because playing with a football (the object) is not playing football (the game). In football (the game) the main objective is to score more points than the other team. In a shmup, the main objective is to survive to the end of the game, and score is not. There couldn't even be any basis to say whether you did or did not complete such an objective, because scores are only comparable to other scores from other plays of the game.

>>2784732
I'm just going to tell you to read >>2784735 because you made the same mistake as the other guy with your chess example.

>>2784735
>I'm confident I could smash your scores
Go then you pussy cunt prove it. What's your strongest game?

>>2784739
Oh, oh no I gave you an unimportant one-liner to quote and ignore the important part of my post. I have to remember to stop doing that.

>>2784735
>The example is not spot-on because playing with a football (the object) is not playing football (the game). In football (the game) the main objective is to score more points than the other team.
Mfw you completely ignore that people play football down the park without goals,aim or a pitch just to have fun.

>>2784720
>Im an idiot with far better scores than you'l ever achieve, keep plebbing.

Aw shit nigga, put that on your resume. My pussy is already wet.

>>2784749
That's not playing football.

>>2784735
The objective of football is to get the ball into the goal.

>>2784743
Yeah because now you don't have the bollocks come on you massive fucking pussy show your scores.

>>2784754
Right indirectly. You wouldn't say the objective of Mushihimesama is to collect yellow gems. That would be stupid of you.

>>2784756
Me:1 You: 0

We're competing at expressing ideas numbnuts and my best game is schooling retards like you.

>>2784753
>That's not playing football.
Ask anyone what they are doing in that situation and they will say "playing football" you have chosen to create a fictional line that seperates the competitive rule driven football from the kick about but both infact are to be described as playing football. The same goes for lads passing a rugby ball although not "competitive" play they are infact playing rugby. The act of playing resides in the object manipulation and not solely in the taking part of the same thing within various rule sets.

>>2784769
You schooled no one lmfao the fact you have to rely on semantics says it all AND im a better player than you. MFW you don't know what "playing" covers but think you've made some killer argument. Congrats you're a don.

>>2784780
Thanks.

>>2784782
Now let's see dem scores sunshine?

>>2784785
Sorry, I'd love to shut you down but doing so would violate my principles. Every time you idiots are confronted with an idea your first response is "What's your score" because you think if you have a higher score you can ignore the idea. I'm not going to play along with that fantasy.

>>2784764
Why would that be stupid? It's one of the goals of the game which which directly contributes to the ultimate goal of the game, which is getting a top score. Just like getting the ball into the goal would be a goal in football which contributes to getting a good score in football.

>>2784793
your balls seem to have shriveled brother, more side steps than a do-si-do.

>>2784797
Getting a top score isn't a goal of the game, it's the goal of the imaginary meta-game you and people who share a similar hallucination have made up. Nowhere does any shmup imply the goal is to get a top score, nowhere does one even define the details of what a "top score" is or punish you for not getting one.

Guys, guys.

What if survival and score are both important objectives in shmups? Many games give bonuses for remaining lives and unplanned deaths are counterproductive to scoring and clearing alike. In most games, they go hand in hand to make up the core gameplay.

>>2784805
Football doesn't have a clearly defined "top score" either because the score of your team is only meaningful in relation to the score of the other team. Actually the "top score" there is even less clearly defined because shmups come with default scores set there by developers.