/vr/ - Retro Games

They haven't aged badly, you became a cuck.

>>2753432

ps 3d games look like utter shit.

>>2753430
>when I was young things were amazing
>now that im old everything is shit

>>2753430
Is that some snit retro movement from /v/? I have seen quite a few of these types lately. You're disgusting op.

>>2753447

Huh? It's weird that SNES and Neo Geo games from the same era hold up beautifully, and have aged like fine wine.

>>2753430
I played a PSX before getting my N64 as a kid...they were that bad back then, too, influenced me to get a 64.

>aged

Games don't age you fucking kids.

>>2753430
you are the one who has aged poorly

>>2753467
>I played a PSX
I highly doubt that, PSX was rare and japan only you stupid retard.

>>2753475
Here comes the underage tards.

>>2753469
This. Awaiting ban on OP for being underage.

>>2753475
Oh wow

>>2753475
kill
yourself
please

>>2753475
technically correct

>>2753469
Yeah they certainly do. When you get old enough to look back at previous gens you'll see how poorly they've aged. Though in this instance I disagree with OP. The action games may suck now but the RPGs are still gold.

>>2753532
Sucks for you if you can't still enjoy tenchu. You're missing out

>>2753480
>>2753528
>>2753529
Do you write GCN when you write about the gamecube or HKT when you speak about the Dreamcast. Or DMG when you mean the Game Boy?

>>2753462
4th gen is the pinnacle of 2D dedicated hardware, nothing unusual.

>>2753539
you're pathetic

>>2753539
>Do you write GCN when you write about the gamecube
There were some issues with National Geographic Channel and Nintendo Gamecube, that's why Gamecune was GCN in the US.
But you're still retarded to call retarded people that use common abbreviation.

>>2753543
>spoiler tags

Depends on the game. G-Police, GITS, etc are all still awesome.

>>2753539
>Do you write GCN when you write about the gamecube
yes

>or HKT when you speak about the Dreamcast.
no

>Or DMG when you mean the Game Boy?
only the brick hardware

>>2753539
What does HKT stand for?

>>2754006
Hong Kong, Turkey

>>2754043
RE1 for the PSX.

>>2754056
And that iconic quality of the great PS1 games is what makes this thread and people like OP either retarded or trolls.

If Playstation graphics are too bad for you to enjoy try backing up from your screen fucking Howard Adderly - or play it in its actual native resolution in a tiny window or on a tiny mobile device's screen.

>>2753561
only nerds call GC "GCN"

yall niggas probably say "snezz" too I bet

>>2754075
I'm sure few of us actually pronounce these abbreviations phonetically. "Game Cube" has the same number of syllables as "GC" and less then "GCN"

I do say N-E-S though, even though at the time it was just the Nintendo. Nintendo has a weird kind of brand recognition that I don't fully understand, since plenty of people still don't understand what an N-E-S is and they want you to say "Regular Nintendo". People who own video game stalls in flea markets, supposed "professionals".

>>2753430
>load times
Most game I've played recently don't really have major load times (mostly been doing Ridge Racer Revolution, Ace Combat, and Ape Escape).
>graphics
They're fine enough for what they are, you're just being picky.
>FMV
That's actually aged like shit, I'm so fucking glad that decent lighting models that don't make everything look like literal plastic exist now. Hated that shit back then, hate that shit now.

>>2753539
seen quite a few people use DMG
seen a handful of people use GCN
no one used HKT, everyone said DC

really, PSX was what the gaming mags used at the time, and it stuck

Good old PSX derail is my favorite type of troll.

>>2754092
The FMVs got way better over the lifespan. Compare Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen to Soul Reaver. Even Final Fantasy 7 to 8. 7 is way better but its CGI is weaker even if the designers did work with what they had and found an artistic style that worked with the available tech at the time.

>>2753447
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6_irTqtyw4

>>2753436
the crash games, vagrant story and the megaman legends games look good though.

>>2754136
>>2753447
>Not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pa6SGYWADU

>>2754168
>megaman legends
>looks good
uwotm8

>>2754321
> Facial animations
> Bright colors and good textures
> Distinct art style that tries to create an anime aesthetic for a living cartoon effect.

If it didn't suffer from PS wiggly lines, it'd be pretty damn solid.

PSX Games that didn't try to ape reality too hard, and opted for distinct art styles have aged very nicely, and threads like this are always fun for reminiscing. I'm jealous the Japs get access to all the primo PS games without potato-tier acting and special region exclusive features like the audio-logs in FFT.

People who gripe on graphics are typically reminiscing over very early era playstation games, or in all brutal honesty, western games that were either mediocre or trying to ape beefier PCs while bogging themselves down in art styles that were entirely unsuited to the platform. Look at how badly games like Syphon Filter have aged, while games like MGS are eternal.

Any game trying to be realistic ends up looking bad a few years down the road. I haven't played pic related in more than a decade, but I'm pretty sure it just doesn't hold up.

>>2754321
MML does a really good job embracing the PS1 low poly count, and has an interesting, cartoony art style that thrives on the flat character models.

Out of curiosity- if MML doesn't look good for a PS1 game what does to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YorqSN9KM0s

How does this make you feel?

>>2754168
Vagrant Story with texture smoothing looks almost Dreamcast-quality.

>>2754380
It surprises me when people shit on N64's texture filtering when it is literally bilinear filtering, exactly what texture smoothing mode on PS2 is.

As usual people don't know what they are talking about

>>2754397
N64 has generally lower-res textures making the filtering more obvious though. Not disagreeing, just acting devil's advocate.

>>2754403
True, but people always leap straight at the filtering. Unfiltered textures at identical resolutions look much much worse.

>>2754397
I certainly don't shit on its texture filtering or perspectives correct 3D capabilities, but with games running at a low framerate and an incredibly shitty video output quality, the console is definitely gimped. I can't play it more than 30 minutes at a time without getting headaches; all the N64 games I completed, I did on an emulator (and yes, they were good).

>>2754435
>games running at a low framerate
there are games running on low framerates on every console m8

that's a problem with the games you're playing not the console

>incredibly shitty video output quality
hope you're talking about composite bro, looks fine when RGB modded

>>2754439
Low framerate was a trend on this console. Games running at more than 20fps are a rarity. And yes, I'm talking about the composite encoder or whatever it is called; no one modded the N64 for RGB when the console was released, and since the console never supported it natively it just looked like someone had smeared shit on your TV screen. Your point is a bit moot (but reminds me I should probably mod the console I have, it's just collecting dust at this point).

>>2754446
>Games running at more than 20fps are a rarity
you mean, games that you happen to like playing

if a person only ever played JRPGs on PS1 then it would be easy for them to say that every game on that console had stable framerates

if a person only ever played action games on ps1, then they too would say that every game is 20fps

Do platformers also have load times on the PS1?

I want to get a backwards compatible PS2 to play mainly platformers and action adventure games.

I mean stuff like
the 3 Crash games
Ape escape
the 3 Spyro games
Abbe Odyssey + Exodus
Rayman
Megaman Legends 1 and 2
Tomba 1 and 2
Klonoa 1
Castlevania Symphony of the night
Alundra

do these games also have load times?

Do shmups have load times too?

dont give a shit about jrpgs btw

Also, isnt the PS2 better for these games because less load times and component cables?

>>2754439
>>2754446
S-video from the N64 looked good to me.

>>2754450
>muh load times

I have more fun playing my PS1 games than I do my SNES ones. And in fact, if I'm going to play an arcade-style 2D platformer or something, I'll usually play an NES game.

Guess OP is wrong. Or maybe it's just a stupid conversation topic that isn't worth anything beyond "what games do you still like?

>load times
They are worse on modern consoles.
>graphics
They aren't even that bad, and if you care more about that rather than the gameplay, you're just a dumb faggot.

>>2753430
>Why have the games for this system aged so poorly?
They haven't.

I grew up as a Nintoddler, and while I'll concede that the PS1 had a better library, it still blows my mind that anyone will say that it had better hardware beyond muh FMV's.

>>2753447
it's some nice levity from the usual nostalgiafaggotry.

>>2754758
>t still blows my mind that anyone will say that it had better hardware
What do you mean? I do think carts were a better choice when it came to younger gamers. Parents knew their kids could scratch cds, but not carts.

>>2753430
Because a lot of early 3D was crude and limited.

With a 16-bit or 32-bit 2D game, it's a bit like pixelated cartoons, it's low res, but these frames look like Simon Belmont lashing with his whip, these frames look likw Super Mario jumping on a Koopa, these frames look like Megaman running.

Now, shooters and other games where the map geometry is 3D (or 2.5D) and all the characters, objects and effects are mostly 2D, that can age better, Duke Nukem 3D, Doom, Blood, the map geometry is not too advanced a lot of the time, but they make up for it with texturing and detailing with map objects.
Resident Evil did the reverse, prerendering the levels and environments and using them as static images with layering and occasionally done twice or thrice from different perspectives depending on where you are, to save a lot of memory to then use that on the characters and objects being 3D, so they could have more and better models on screen, and though some of the pre-rendered cutscenes look like garbage, that first zombie stopping what he's doing to look over his shoulder to notice you, that's still scary as hell (maybe partially because of how he hits the uncanny valley so well, he doesn't look so much like a roaring monster with teeth, he looks like a person which there's something FUCKING WRONG WITH)

I love Goldeneye, but the characters looked pretty ugly, here we don't have a cartoon of a soldier viewed from a certain angle, here we have a soldier rendered with a limited number of polygons, his face is literally a flat surface with a picture pasted on it, his hands are about 8 faces each and looks like a box with hand textures drawn on them, they have no articulation and he's making a fist at all times.

It was amazing for it's time, and very impressive, but 17 years later, it looks awkward, I can't quite unsee how boxy and awkward some of that stuff actually looks today.

I don't really let that kind of stuff get to me though, I can still enjoy the game today.

>>2754762
The ps1 couldn't run 2d all that well and could barely do 3d either. The number of games that weren't shit on release is less than 20 and most of it was due to the incredibly limited capabilities it had. Like the ps2, it was awful, only with even fewer great games. The ones that stand out are exceptional though, but none of it comes from the hardware itself.

>>2754416
PS1 could often do higher-res textures than N64, though, because of more storage (and probably other hardware reasons I'm unaware of).

>>2754758
N64 had the hardware
PS1 had the freedom.

>>2754321
based retard

>>2754782
Usually a combination of bad programming due to the difficult hardware, the tendency of N64 games to be more open (which means close up detail is sacrificed), and the limited storage space which provided no incentive for higher res textures anyway.

Alas, the texturing in games like Conker is very impressive though. In some places, better than any PS1 game I've seen (but not necessarily higher resolution, more in terms of diversity).

>>2753462

Sprites and pixels are timeless. Early 3D can be pretty bad.

>>2755061
>Sprites and pixels are timeless
someone hasn't played any atari games

>>2754770

The problem with the PS2 is that it was actually the weakest console of that generation, and most 3d multiplats are better on the Xbox and Gamecube. (I say 3d multiplats because for 2d games the PS2 had a better dpad)
Pretty much only the exclusives are worth playing, and they are few, Ico, Shadow, MGS 2 and 3, Ape Escape, Jak, Ratchet, Klonoa 2 and the Capcom games (dmc, godhand, okami, maximo). The rest is better in another console of that generation, and most of the games have gotten hd re released in later consoles.

In comparison I can think of many more PS1 games worth playing.

>>2753430

Load times are comparable to current disc based games, just not as decorated.

>>2753467

You had a pre-release PlayStation?

>>2753452
>Is that some snit retro movement from /v/? I have seen quite a few of these types lately.

Lately? Where've you been?

It's always been a common view that the 5th gen has aged relatively poorly.

>>2755082
>MGS3
Xbox got Substance

You should also mention all those PS2 JRPGs including FF and DQ, plus Gran Turismo. Those were enormous system sellers.

>>2753475
Nobody cares, spergerking.

>>2753574
I love G-Police, played it a lot as a kid, but that game seriously had terrible draw distance, you couldn't see what was going on one block away.

If someone made a sourceport for G-Police which allowed you to increase the draw distance beyond the original, I'd be all over that.

>>2753475
I remember seeing that thing on TechTV and wanting one so bad

>>2753430
I still play PSX games on my phone, you piece of shit.

PSX is wonderful.

>>2755073
This, there's some beautiful titles for the NES, but also some where the devs obviously didn't care very much.

>>2755408
There's already a PC version.

>>2754770
>>2754770
the ps2 was and is the best modern and most bought console that exist.

>>2755441
>nes
ew. worst console i ever played. mess. thank god i didnt grow up with that hogbox.

>>2753430
They haven't aged, you did.

>>2754168
Right. Shit like this does not look good.

>>2755774

>>2755774
>>2755776
Shit looks as bad as Bubsy 3D

I replayed some PS1 games just recently, Crash bandicoot, spyro, rayman 1, SF alpha III, castlevania: SOTN etc.

all still good, dunno what you're on about.

silent hill looks pretty good. of course not as good as n64 ocarina of time 4k upscale, but it is nice. OP is obviously a troll.

>>2753430
PS1 games always looked like dog shit, with very few exceptions (Tobal 2, Toshinden 3 at 30FPS, etc.)

>>2755774

>>2754006
>What does HKT stand for?

Hardware: Katana (the development codename of the machine).

>>2753539
Everybody used the PSX abbreviation back in the 90s, when the machine came out. Open up ANY gaming magazine from 1996 and you'll see it.

>>2754758
>while I'll concede that the PS1 had a better library, it still blows my mind that anyone will say that it had better hardware beyond muh FMV's.

It had incredibly well DESIGNED hardware. It did exactly what it was meant to do, and did it with absurd amount of horsepower given the costs and the timeframe (1994). It's only shortcoming was the lack of tiled background processor, but that only mattered for oldschool games, which was NOT what the machine was designed for.

It didn't have stupid fucking oversights like the texture cache or RAM latency problem of the N64, for example.

And it was well supported too, the performance analyser was the ultimate tool for developers.

>>2754782
PS1 could do higher sized single texture, but the N64 could still do a better quality one, however it needs to subdivide the texture and the model to multiple little ones placed adjacent to each other.

>>2755796
Final fantasy 8, 9, and the updated version of 7

>>2755843
you have no idea what you are talking about though.

>>2755850
Isn't he talking about the fabled N64 texture cache?

>>2755850
I know better than you, that's for sure.

>>2755860
>Isn't he talking about the fabled N64 texture cache?

Bingo. PS1 could draw a bigger SINGLE texture. N64 could draw more and higher quality over all (it has more horsepower to do so), but it has to break up the polygon into a lot smaller ones to get around the texture cache.

If you are only counting the technical limit of which console can do the best quality single texture, then sure the PS1 beats the N64... but then the PS1 gets beaten by the Saturn (which could draw a perspective correct 4096x4096 texture, even if only maybe two at the same time maximum).

PS1 polys actually hurt my eyes. Those wobbly graphics and all those jaggies... Ugh. Just thinking about it makes me want to puke.

>>2755957
>>>/v/

>>2755838
>It didn't have stupid fucking oversights like the texture cache or RAM latency problem of the N64, for example.
These weren't oversights. More like Nintendo's way of making the machine affordable while simultaneously being able to directly profit on console unit sales. Literally every single "flaw" with the N64 could have been "fixed" just by including more memory/data bus pathways on the motherboard. Still, a more balanced, less top-heavy system design might have been good.

>>2755873
>but it has to break up the polygon into a lot smaller ones to get around the texture cache.
You don't have to actually break up polygons, because the UV coordinates can be set across several polygons (PS1 also supports this). Instead you just need to divide the textures themselves into chunks to be streamed through the texture cache. Unfortunately this has the distinction of both annoying programmers and artists simultaneously.

PS1 ironically has the opposite problem. To minimize affine texture distortion developers would subdivide large textured polygons into a collection of smaller textured polygons. This is generally why landscapes (e.g. Hyrule Field) cannot be textured on PS1, because landscapes are large polygon surfaces and therefore would require polygon counts via subdivision well beyond the limits of a 5th generation console.

>>2753430

>Says games aged poorly
>complains about everything BUT actual gameplay

Bravo...

A lot of people in here should probably leave this board. I'd hate to see what most of you think of pre gen 5 consoles. Morons.

>>2756025
If graphics wouldn't matter, you would play all your games without a screen

>>2756025
load times affect gameplay, because they increase undesired downtime, which strongly affects overall pacing

>>2756025

>PS1 "gameplay"
>Press X to get to the next poorly acted cut scene
>Loading screen

>>2754450
Pretty much every PS1 game has load times, regardless of genre. But yes, you might as well just get a PS2. They're all backwards compatible, and can output component.

>>2756025
FMVs are non-interactive sections of a game. In such times, the audio-visual delivery takes the drivers seat, with all consequences, including the responsibility of entertaining the player, and maintaining a connection to the remainder of the game.


For FMVs two conflicting aspects come into play.

On one hand, the visuals of FMVs are largely unrelated to the power of the hardware they're played on. As such, they often represent the state of the art of non-realtime rendering, which can be quite far ahead of realtime rendering of the time. When the state of the art at that time, is below the realtime rendering of the present, the viewer ends up in a conflicted situation.

On the other hand, FMVs don't exist in a vacuum. They are integrated into, and part of, a game. As such, their visuals need to mesh with the interactive visuals. Stray too far from the interactive visuals and the player may perceive FMV and game as unrelated, or be drawn out of the game.


When you contrast the two points above, an FMV is in a losing position. To justify its existence, it needs to do something the system can't do in realtime. If it goes to the bleeding edge of non-realtime visuals, it's bound to suffer the alienating effect when realtime rendering catches up. If it stays closer to the game's interactive visuals, it has little reason to actually exist, since the engine can just do these visuals in realtime.

On very old systems, and with careful art direction, FMVs can still work, when they pick up the visuals of the game, and put them in situations the engine of the game can't handle. FMVs that follow this concept tend to work regardless of the age of the game.

>>2756050
gay

>>2753430

The POPS PS1 emulator on PS2 has a nice texture smoothing filter enabled by the latest POPStarter builds. A lot of 3D games like Raystorm actually look pretty good with it.

But you still need to play PS1 games on a CRT to get a good retro experience without your eyes starting to bleed.

>>2756038
>>2756043
Why are you two here?

>>2756049
No you dimwit. Only the first were (60gb-version afaIr), then Sony decided to skip backward compatability due to the high cost. I have had both and the first version sold for more than I bought it for bc fanbois wanted to play ps1 games on their ps2 so po prices sky rocketed. I then bought the upgraded version. No regrets

>>2756167
What the fuck are you talking about

>>2756167
You are really confused.
The first PS3's had backwards compatibility with PS2 disc games. Then they scrapped that.

But all PS3's can play PS1 discs.
All PS2's play PS1 discs.

There are a few PS1 games that wont run on either but they are crap games anyway.

>>2756181
Don't ever forget to mention that all PS3s have slight lag on anything other than native PS3 games no matter what model or resolution or video output you use.

>>2756108
I'm here to talk about retro games. Are you implying they don't have graphics? I've heard very few games that work without visual feedback (text is visual feedback)

i skipped this system and never liked it. had a few games that i played on ps2, but my cd laser stopped reading them quickly

>>2755447
Yes, and the draw distance is pitiful.

I can deal with the blocky models because it's a futuristic vehicle shooter, it's just that being unable to see a that far ahead of you really isn't conducive to flight combat

>>2753430
Because when you're a kid you don't care about graphics but gameplay instead, now that you've grown up and cannot play these games solely because of graphics (even though there are emulators with piss filters to calm your autist ass up) it can't still get you to play them.

>>2756029
>4th gen graphics
Beautiful sprites which look like what they're designed to be

>5th gen graphics
Very crude 3D models with sharp, angular edges and awkward articulation and animation.
Occasionally a sprite based game even more beautiful than 4th gen.

I'm not saying the games aren't fun to play, just that most early 3D looked like dogshit.
A lot of games made early 3D work simply by going for an abstract and cartoony aesthetic, Super Mario 64 still looks pretty decent to me because it largely looks like a cartoon.
Meanwhile, Goldeneye, which strived towards realism, doesn't look quite so good today.

I don't think they should have done it any other way, it looked top notch when I was a kid, but a lot of early 3D was kind of doomed to look awkward and bad once the novelty was over, unless devs chose to work within their limitations and stylize the game accordingly.

>>2755774
homosexual detected

>>2756029
>I'd hate to see what most of you think of pre gen 5 consoles.
The thing is gen 3 and 4, 4 especially, have aged well. Game designers knew what they were doing with 2D by this point. Super Mario Brothers looks old now and it doesn't have the bells and whistles newer games have, but the core game mechanics are there and it plays perfectly. Even kids who've grown up with newer Mario games can go back to it and feel at home. It will always be a smooth experience and a joy to play.

Meanwhile gen 5 brought on a wave of 3D games which where largely a new experience for both developers and consumers. Cue a lot of games with awkward cameras and clunky controls, until developers got the hang of things. Of course since we didn't know better we were happy with these games, but now we're used to newer games with smoother controls, so when we go back we realise how awkward games like Tomb Raider could be.

>>2756604
>Even kids who've grown up with newer Mario games can go back to it and feel at home.

SMB2US, SMB3 and SMW? Perhaps, SMB1 and SMB2JP? Doubtful.

>>2755804
>no 16:9 hack
>smudgy AA

Get out.

>>2756072
Original PS1 games can also run on a PS2 with the texture filter.

>>2756619
Its allways getting released on new platforms, must be a few people buying it, doubt they're all old enough to have played it back in the 80s.

>>2756604
>when we go back we realise
>we
Nah. I play old games just fine and I don't need to "realize" anything because my memory works.

The entire 5th Generation has aged like milk for one simple reason. It was the first 3D generation and devs were still learning the ropes of 3D.

I've had this discussion before with people. I have coined the 5th Gen of gaming as "You had to have been there" gen.

Low detail
Shitty camera (even Mario 64s Camera can be fucked up)

Even the gameplay can be bad via sloppy control schemes (Tank Controls)

Some of the better games from the generation haven't aged as bad...but they have aged.

The 6th Gen was better in every way since they took the good of the 5th gen and turned it up to 11.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 5th Gen, imho, I think it's because I was there to experience it and can appreciate it for what it is.

>>2756692
>It was the first 3D generation
This statement bugs me so badly. We had so many excellent 3D games in the arcades, on minor consoles, on DOS, and they worked, and a fair amount of them still work. The 5th gen didn't come up with 3D gaming. They just did it particularly bad

>>2753430

The best way to play PS1 games really is on the PS2. It has a texture smoothener feature not found on any other system that'll play old PS1 games, and makes PS1 games look a lot better.


Also your eyes have been jaded by modern systems.

>a bloo bloo I'm being a contrarian faggot, you can't prove me wrong
>a few images later
>They all look like shit :) haha i win
It's like I'm on fucking /v/ for fuck's sake

>>2756720
>not found on any other system that'll play old PS1 games
practically every other system that can play PS1 games has this option. It's called emulation.

>>2756727

And every system that plays PS1 games aside from a PS1 emulates it, even the PS2.
Upon looking up a list of PS1 games that don't work on PS2...I found out the 75001 model PS2 is a piece of shit. It can't play some PS2 games even.

>>2756720
Dreamcast emulates PS1 better than PS2 does. Too bad it's only 3 games tho.

>>2756740
>And every system that plays PS1 games aside from a PS1 emulates it, even the PS2

Only graphical tweaks are "emulated", the rest is all native. Some games don't work well mostly because of mechanical reasons.

>>2756740
>even the PS2.
The PS2 does NOT emulate the PS1. The backwards compatibility comes from hardware.

The PS1's CPU is literally built into the PS2. It also serves as a mandatory component of PS2 games (as an I/O controller).

The PS2's GPU is register compatible with the PS1's GPU.

The reason PS2 model 75001 had problems is because it was the first to integrate PS2's CPU and GPU onto the same die. This messed up timings that certain PS1 games relied upon. Fortunately, the problem was fixed in later revisions.

PS1 games still hold up perfectly fine.

>>2756043

Off the top of my head, that retarded comment doesn't apply to

Duke 3D Total Meltdown
Jet Moto series
Crash Bandicoot series
Spyro series
Tomb Raider series
MGS
Resident Evil series
Final Fantasy
Tekken
Medievil
Ghost in the Shell
e.t.c.
e.t.c.

>>2756043
tell me five games that are like that.

>>2753430
>>>/v/

>>2755082
There was much more than that, but that's the gist. PS1 still has nothing in comparison though. Ape Escape and I guess Crash, rpgs, mgs, and a whole lot of fucking nothing.

>>2755662
It was only half of those. It was most bought because sony pretty much made the modchips that sold it in the third world and had a massive playerbase because it was a cheap dvd player and successor to the ps1 instead of the less appealing n64. My money was on the dreamcast at the time.

The games were definitely part of a golden era that I love dearly, but the system itself had little to do with it. Hearing grandpa dev stories about working on it killed any magic and mystery it had. THe games were great, but the systemwasn't. Also it had more shovelware than every other system including the gameboy put together.

>>2756703
It was when 3d became the norm for us console fags, and when people talk about generations they're talking about consoles.

>>2753430
3D Playstation games are generally not easy to go back to. Not only was the 3d terrible but many of the games have terrible designs and were more worried about have the best graphics.

>>2756692
>Shitty camera (even Mario 64s Camera can be fucked up)
Every camera can be fucked up in some ways. Mario 64s camera is still great today.

>>2756703
it was the first generation with stuff like Rocket Robot on Wheels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axrba1dChYQ

Back then, people were trying to make 3d games, in which moving your character around was a challenge, as it was in 3d platformers, the most popular videogame genre of the 1985-1995 period by far.

Modern games (which I dont care about) are different, mainly, games in which you control very easily a character through a virtual open world.

I like games of that generation because I like games in which moving your character is a challenge, like Ecco the Dolphin.

>>2756625
the smooth AA makes it look betteryou moron

ps1 vs n64 technobabble arguments by people who've never made a game for those systems are almost as bad as nintendo vs genesis >muh console wars arguments

>>2757713
No technobabble needed. PS1 emulates perfectly fine N64 doesn't. That's the gist of everything said here.

>>2757730
the technobabble statements were all about the hardware of these systems

>>2753430
Either you're not playing them on a CRT, or you're holding them up to standards that did not exist at the time.

Games don't age.

Sure, you expect more graphically in 2015 than you did in 1995, but that's not a flaw of game design.

>>2758649
It was the beginning of 3D games, so it's like comparing the Atari to the SNES/Genesis

The games aged fine.

>>2758649
>you're holding them up to standards that did not exist at the time.
>Sure, you expect more graphically in 2015 than you did in 1995
Nobody does, and it has nothing to do with what people mean when they say a game ages

>>2758650
3D games have been made and played for easily a decade by that time.

>Games age

>>2758649
>you're holding them up to standards that did not exist at the time.

And this is exactly what people mean when they say games age. We don't live in bubbles, our standards have changed since 1995.

>>2758701
>our standards have changed since 1995.
Yeah. For the worse.

People expected actual gameplay in 1995 that also doesn't hold your hand.

That's right, buddy boyos, games don't age at all, the things you'd expect from an action game designed on the NES in 1986 are the exact same on the PS4 in 2015.

>>2758707
It plays the same in 1986 as it does in 2015, you are correct, sport.

>>2758651
Then please explain to me what it means when people say games "age."

>>2758701
Yes, but if you're applying today's design and technology standards to a game that was made 20 years ago, you're just an ass.

If you can't step back and say to yourself before you play, "This is an older game" - that's YOUR problem, not the game's. Games in 1995 were not created to sit on the shelf next to games made in 2015.

>>2758712
Not really, back in 86 we didn't have gamefaqs, speedrun and walkthrough videos.

>>2758729
We had autists and pinball wizards though. Nothings changed.

>>2758719
>Then please explain to me what it means when people say games "age."
People are perfectly capable to adjust their expectations regarding audio-visuals. Nobody sane will expect an NES to perform like a PS4, or consider it a fault that it doesn't. However, games despite having a manual, rely on a lot of informal knowledge and convention of the time. For example during early times of gaming, scores were extremely common, and so was the concept of repeating levels with increased difficulty. Neither is wrong, or bad, but it's a very specific convention of the time. Now, knowing that, there are occasionally conventions that are so strongly part of their time, they become archaic. An example of that would be tank controls. They're not bad, not at all, and they're functional for what they intend to do, however, and that's where one aspect of aging comes in mind, they clash heavily with what people expect of character control nowadays. A willing player can adjust, no question, but the very act of adjustment means overriding present convention, which is an extra hurdle players at the time didn't have. The more unusual these conventions become, the higher the hurdle gets. That happens for example with experimental control schemes.

>>2758705
My main gripe would be the controls rather than any issue with the gameplay. In fact I don't think anyone here is complaining about the game play itself, the graphics, cameras, and controls seem to be the main issues.

Moving away from 3d games, but to use a personal example. Take the CnC games, I loved CnC and Red Alert as a kid and they're still two of my favourite games. But the lack of a build queue does irritate me, it never used to, but I've been spoiled by more recent RTS games and it's a feature I've grown accustomed to, I can't just pretend I haven't. It's a minor irritation, but an irritation none the less.

>>2758729
And those have any bearing on the game how?

Because it's an optional form of media for drooling morons, autistic folk, and losers?

Glad to know the game's programming changes because "WE HAEV VIDEO"

>>2758719
>Then please explain to me what it means when people say games "age."

As for graphics, the problem is a bit different. There are certainly graphics that stand the test of time easily. That's because they're made for the game, using the system they're on just as a vehicle. Meaning, if you were to make the same game now, you'd likely end up with rather similar visuals, because they are kind of game defining.
There are is another aspect to graphics though, and that's much more difficult: technological marvel. For some games, part of their appeal at the time of release was and is pushing technology. You can, of course, even in present day, appreciate and enjoy these achievements, because they were and are, achievements. However, especially in the age of the PS and N64, some of the push was done at the expense of the game. Graphics were the way they were not because the game demanded it, but because the system couldn't do more. Even if you can appreciate these graphics on their technological level, nowadays, with technology being ubiquitous, hindsight is 20/20 and makes it more than obvious that many of these games were too early to really shine, or didn't reach their potential because they were too focused on technology. This is a position that people of the time didn't have as much. One was willing to make concession, to accept certain limits. I'm not saying people should expect more from an N64 or PS, I'm saying people now realize, with a healthy distance to the release of, and hype for, these games, that at least some of these games simply had their priorities mixed up.
Just like with the gameplay hurdles mentioned, this is a sliding scale. People can enjoy an N64 Zelda just fine. The graphics are well done for the platform, the game's entertaining. But, for example, as someone else mentioned, there are also games like G-Police. Excellent idea, excellent execution, pushing the platform, but ... ultimately the game's suffering for it.

>>2758739
>And those have any bearing on the game how?
They shift the willingness of people to explore and deal with the given challenge, and the ability of people to use social mechanisms (play with friends, talk with them about what they discovered), since gamefaqs just did all the work already.

>Glad to know the game's programming changes because "WE HAEV VIDEO"
Several times I've seen interesting and explorative game ideas thrown around, only to be shot down by "and within 2 days gamefaqs will have destroyed that gameplay aspect completely". The mere existence can be a problem.

>>2758719
>If you can't step back and say to yourself before you play, "This is an older game" - that's YOUR problem, not the game's. Games in 1995 were not created to sit on the shelf next to games made in 2015.


I'm not saying they were, again to use CnC as an example, I'm well aware the designers are not to blame, none the less having to constantly build individual riflemen is an irritation. Justifying it through the games age, while perfectly fair, does not make it any less of an irritation.

>>2758743
Yet none of that changes the game. Thus, the game does not change and most certainly does not age as it remains the same.

Now if you want to say that changes the mindset of the player, or that the "culture" (god kill me) of the players changes, then I would agree.

I feel like you need to learn English and how words work, there's some fundamental issues here with understanding vocabulary, basic sentence structure, and logic.

>>2758746
>Yet none of that changes the game
When people say a game "ages", they are not being literal. Of course the binary data does not change. What they tend to mean is that the experience of playing a game changes, for better or worse, which is inevitable, as the game does not exist in a vacuum. The experience of a player has an impact.

>I feel like you need to learn English and how words work
You will notice that many times, in fact very often, english phrases are not literal, but instead tend to be shorthands for more complicated concepts.

>>2758746
>>2758750
To clarify, a game by itself just is, and is fairly useless. For it to become an actual game, it needs to be played. The player, and the act of playing, are an inevitable part of the game. For a lot of players this is fairly obvious, and the phrase of a game aging makes sense to them. For someone with a strongly technical viewpoint, these aspects are distinct, and it does not even occur to them that they could combine in some meaningful form. For these people, the phrase tends to be fundamentally wrong.

>>2758750
>>2758753
The game does not need to be played, nor is it useless. The player can also not be a factor.

See, because you want to be a non-literal jackass who skews sentences off into the moon, I can do it too.

The player can opt not to play the game, yet it's still a game. The player can also not exist, it's still a game.

Just because someone isn't voluntarily using something doesn't mean its identification changes. I guess music isn't actually music because it's not played at some specific interval, despite existing. I'll call music not being played not actual music, because that makes perfect sense.

This thread is giving me a touch of the downs just watching you guys argue over nothing.

>>2758757
How do you think I feel? This is depressing, I will never understand these artistic rejects who think games are some sort of mystical entities that you need to hoard in your basement like relics. Yet sometimes you've just gotta dive full on into downs to get a feel for it.

Also we need to define what "aged" is actually supposed to signify. Doesn't that just mean (pejoratively) that the game is different to modern games?

But in which way is it different? What's the general trend?

Let's say modern games were all easy, and old games were all hard. Does that mean that a game with higher difficulty has aged? If that's the case, should the word "aged" be used, which has negative connotations? If so, then it would have the loaded implication that difficulty is bad.

When you guys say something is "aged" or whatever, please try to provide more tangible examples, otherwise we don't know how loaded are the implications being made.

>>2758756
>The player can opt not to play the game
Something tells me you're thinking of "game" in the sense of a program sold on a disc, cart, or via download. Take one step back, look at the concept of a game. It's rule based interaction. Without people to interact, only the rules remain. It's a bit more of a philosophical problem.

>The player can also not exist, it's still a game.
Please name just one game, doesn't even have to be a video game, that works without players.

>music isn't actually music because it's not played at some specific interval
intervals? They're convention, little more. Good luck having something resembling music without audio of any form though. The art is defined by being acoustic. Remove the acoustic aspect of music (even just the tones you imagine) and you're left with something that's difficult to define as music. Likewise, for games a defining element is interaction. Needs at least one interactor to work.

>>2758774
Oh my god that first sentence.

It's a piece of plastic with software on it, that's it.

Get over yourself, I'm done with this one dude

>>2758767
>Doesn't that just mean (pejoratively) that the game is different to modern games?
If you mean specifically "aged badly" it means players playing it now encounter additional hurdles or obstacles that players at release date didn't deal with. If you mean "aged" in general it just means that general mindset and expectations of players change, affecting the process of the game being played. This can include the proverbial "aged like fine wine", where old games have very few hurdles in terms of accessibility, but reintroduce aspects to a player that they can not find in modern games, but enjoy.

>What's the general trend?
There is none

>otherwise we don't know how loaded are the implications being made
You instantly assumed negative implications, and maybe that's part of the almost involuntary defense against games aging. The concept itself is fundamentally neutral.
>Let's say modern games were all easy, and old games were all hard
Let's not. It's a really stereotypical false dichotomy that does nothing to further the understanding of the concept.

>>2758778
>It's a piece of plastic with software on it, that's it.
You're free to think that. Just don't ever expect to understand a thing when people talk about games in a slightly broader sense. So whenever you ostentatiously roll your eyes at people talking about games aging, it's reflecting somewhat poorly on you, rather than on them.

Is this just the guy that argues with himself or are there two legitimate autists in this thread? I'm waiting for the conversation to shift to disc rot.

>>2758781
All I wanted was a general definition of what implications were behind a game "aging". And you provided more than one it seems?

>it means players playing it now encounter additional hurdles or obstacles that players at release date didn't deal with

So it's about hurdles or obstacles? Is this like in the sense that until recently System Shock 1 was quite difficult to get running on modern PCs, so that meant it aged badly? If not, what do you mean by this?

>general mindset and expectations of players change

So what kind of mindset change? What kind of expectations change?

I need some kind of clarification here.

>>2758791
>So it's about hurdles or obstacles?
Aging with negative connotations is.

>was quite difficult to get running on modern PCs
No, obstacles and hurdles within the game. The means to run a game are irrelevant for the problem. Imagine, if you will, the game is magically set up for you, and all you have to do is play it.
I mean obstacles like, the slowly fading convention of reading a manual (mandatory, if not exciting, during the old days, considered a failure nowadays), or the already mentioned tank controls (a lot of players feel they're slow and awkard, unable to embrace the pace of the game), or the already mentioned lack of a build queue in an RTS, which adds an extra mental task and increases the frantic nature of playing it. Anything that leads to confusing because it fails to meet expectation, and in particular, anything that requires active unlearning of picked up experience and conventions.
You could say, in the case of System Shock the level design would strike a player as a hurdle, as maze designs are largely abolished nowadays. Once the player gets over that hurdle and embraces the maze, it can be quite fun to play, but that step is active, and produces an initial negative reaction.

>>2758791
>So what kind of mindset change? What kind of expectations change?

Some, quite a few, were mentioned in this thread. Control schemes are a big factor. Another "classic" one is delivery of information in RPGs. The old concept of an RPG just providing an environment, and letting the player find their place in it, good and bad, understanding NPCs as part of a world, has been largely replaced by stronger narrative and NPCs reduced as info vending machines. It can take a few hours of understanding that mindset, and actually acting out choices through actions, not dialog, to uncover the nature of an old RPG. If a player is unaware of these concept shifts, the experience of playing such a game can actually be much worse than during the times the game was new. Just a couple weeks ago there was a Fallout thread on here, where the player was seemingly unaware of their out-of-dialog actions affecting the stance of NPCs, and as a result received a pretty harsh game experience. Now, you could argue the big issue is that players lack that desire to experiment, to accept the world they're in, and puzzle, being used to very hamfisted delivery. I won't even disagree. But it should be acknowledged in order to understand what's going on, and why people seemingly can't get into certain old games.

>>2753436
>>2753430

I bet you're playing them on a 50" LCD TV or something, get a retro CRT and they look like you remember.

>>2758857

fuck off crt shill!

>N-no! Graphics and gameplay can't age, g-go back to /v/
Jesus you guys, OP is obviously a faggot but some games just didn't stand the test of time too well.
I mean, I can get past graphics, a lot of 5th gen 3D aged like milk, I'm not gonna hold that against a game (though I'll always criticize some design choices, 3D explosions typically looked like trash), but sometimes I can go back to a game I played as a kid and realize, "That's actually a really bullshit gameplay feature" or "these controls are actually terrible and could probably have been made better by switching the sticks, or by changing the way this or that is done just slightly", I didn't have a lot of 5th gen console games as a kid, so I made due with what little I have, but some things weren't as good as I remember.

>>2757527
I think a lot of people exaggerate that, SM64 had a decent camera, and though it wouldn't always play ball, it would do what you wanted it to most of the time, it was only on rare occasions when I felt that the camera was outright fucking me in the ass.

>>2753430
play Medal of Honor 1 and come back

>>2758857
>fuzzy and blurry
>open blinds or a lamp and you can barely see anything because of glare
>huge
>high pitched whine from tubes
Fuck that.
Plenty of 5th gen games look fine on an LCD screen, you don't need an old hunk of shit TV to enjoy an old game.

My laptop shows Super Castlevania crystal clear and pixel perfect, it's beautiful and there's no need for a shit TV or fugly filter.

>>2758967
they probably did

>Duke Nukem 64
Fuck yeah, this is an awesome port!

>sprites are all touched up and redone
Cool! I can't wait to see how they redid the Cycloid Emperor!

>final boss is instead of the classic pre-rendered set of sprites that he was, he is now a big 3D model with square arms and body features that look like they were done with an angle grinder
Jesus Christ that was fucking terrible and inexcusable, it clashes with the aesthetics already in the game, fuck the devs for doing that.

>>2758993
comparison of the Cycloid Emperor from both games

>>2758970

I bet you only play on emulators too

>>2759052
>My laptop
wow
how did you get so good at this?

>>2753430
Because it was early 3D tech and it was similar to modern era playstation where the concept is dump a ton of garbage so there's lots of bad developers for it.
FMV has basically never been good. Load times shouldn't be factored into the system aging, it was the tech at the time. Load times today are just as bad or worse in many cases for some games.

There's some decent games for it, but it wasn't a great system overall. That was gen was basically the beginning of the end for having a non-completely shitty gaming industry.

>>2759141
>it was early 3D tech
What early 3D tech may fucking look like

>>2759052
Yes, I play SNES games on an emulator, with a gamepad, well deduced anon, you figured out my enigma, that I don't spend hundreds of dollars on used games to clutter up my house.

Sorry that I don't miss blurry old TVs that make high pitched screeching noises at all times, sorry that I don't care that a game is only 99% or 97.8% authentic compared to original hardware, sorry that I think a cheap dualshock clone fits my hand better than the old dogbone (which there wasn't anything wrong with, it just doesn't feel as good in the hand), sorry that I'd rather collect guns than old vidya cartridges and systems.

>>2759151
>guns

>>2758957
>some things weren't as good as I remember
>some games just didn't stand the test of time

Why is YOUR memory the measure of whether a game stands the test of time? Maybe you had shitty opinions as a kid in the first place. Hell, maybe you have shitty opinions now.

This why people can insist on "modern standards" until they're blue in the face but called a game "aged" will never mean anything other than "it's old and I don't like it anymore." Players can't even agree on what're good graphics or good mechanics about games RIGHT NOW, so it's even stupider to make it sound like we should all agree that game X from 20 years ago doesn't match our collective preferences, or that not having feature Z (which is now common) is obviously a dealbreaker. Especially on this board where the differences in taste are likely to be much greater.

>>2759190
>Why is YOUR memory the measure of whether a game stands the test of time?
I'm not that anon, but for the record, I believe games aging has nothing to do with personal or prior experience. You could sit someone with no prior experience with the game in front of it, and still get a different result in 1995 vs. 2015

>modern standards
they're context, not more

>called a game "aged" will never mean anything other than "it's old and I don't like it anymore."
To you, maybe. Others work just fine with meanings that don't rely on individual experience.

>Players can't even agree on what're good graphics or good mechanics about games RIGHT NOW
Fortunately games aging is not about good or bad graphics or mechanics.

>we should all agree that game X from 20 years ago doesn't match our collective preferences
It's not so much about preferences as it is about context and conventions.

>not having feature Z (which is now common) is obviously a dealbreaker
It's not a dealbreaker, but lacking the feature means a player used to that feature needs to work around the lack, which is very different from never having that feature in the first place.

The idea of what games aging actually means is so subjective I don't get why anyone thinks it's a valid argument.

>>2759151
I like how you don't even take the "collecting in general is a waste of space and money" argument and instead go for the "what I collect is better than what you collect" reasoning.

>>2759212
Well guns are clearly superior because it shows how masculine and cool I am much like my motorcycle.

>>2759212
>>2759213
Anon did not suggest that guns are superior. Only that they prefer to spend their resources on that hobby, as they consider functional alternatives to be available for the other, which they mentioned. You are more than welcome to have a different opinion, and collect what you want, or not collect at all.

You know, it's really difficult to actually have meaningful discussions on this board, because everyone's instantly hostile and aggressive. So just for once, don't fucking assume, don't imply, don't break everything down to a false dichotomy, and actually listen to the points people DO make, for fucks sake.

>>2759225

>>2759201
>I believe games aging has nothing to do with personal or prior experience
>a player used to that feature needs to work around the lack
???

>Others work just fine with meanings that don't rely on individual experience.
Come off it, mate. This thread is full of people trying to make it sound like it's just a fact that certain things suck. No one ever uses it to humbly point out the technical fact that conventions have changed--if they wanted to do that, they would just say so, and it wouldn't be news to anyone anyway--they use it to dismiss stuff they think is old and crappy. They want their preferences to sound more objective. If they want to say X is different, they would say "X is different from games today." But they don't; people say "X aged BADLY".

>>2759190
>Why is YOUR memory the measure of whether a game stands the test of time?
Well, why is yours? I never stated my opinion held any more weight than yours or anyone else's, I just stated how I felt, that some things which were seen as acceptable in 5th gen were actually not very good, in my opinion.

Notice that I don't say "all 5th gen games were inexcusable shit through and through", or that a game isn't worth playing because the graphics don't look very good from a modern perspective, or that a facet to the gameplay or the controls is flawed.

I loved Duke Nukem 3D, and Duke Nukem 64, but turning the final boss into chunky and blocky 3D felt like a retarded gimmick, it's not even done well.

>>2759238
>I just stated how I felt
When you start with "come on guys, some games just didn't stand the test of time," that's not you saying you didn't like something, that's you making it sound like it's obvious that it's simply the case and we should all agree with it.

You guys ever tried to play a 3D Playstation game that pre-dates the analogue controller?

The controls are almost are almost always stiff, clumsy, or just awkward. You can cry that's it's not the developers fault all you want but at the end of the day, bad controls are bad controls.

>>2759235
>???
Features are not tied to specific games.
A current RTS player, used to build queues, can have troubles on C&C, without having to have played any C&C, past or present.

>it's just a fact that certain things suck
Fair enough, and I don't agree with them. I firmly believe that games that were applauded in the past, were applauded for a reason. That does not mean they still have to be as approachable, or feel as good, as they did back then. It's why I called these things hurdles and obstacles. They're part of the player, not inherent to a game. They can't be disregarded.

>No one ever uses it to humbly point out the technical fact that conventions have changed
I did, in this thread, several times.

>they use it to dismiss stuff they think is old and crappy
Usually when people say something aged badly, there's actually a mild sadness to the phrase. Because people are aware that the game (probably) used to be pretty good in its time, and is just kind of less accessible due to circumstances. Or, to pick up your phrase, they don't say "it's old and crappy", they say "it's perceived as crappy now, which kind of sucks". There's a difference.

>>2759235
>If they want to say X is different, they would say "X is different from games today." But they don't; people say "X aged BADLY".
That's because the phrases don't mean the same. "different" is a neutral phrase. Something that's different can be just as approachable and enjoyable as it was back then. For example games that did one shot quirky mechanics, that interested people back then, as it does now. In contrast to that, "aged badly" means that the approachability of a game has changed, for worse, due to circumstances out of control of the game. These circumstances, which, again, I called hurdles, have not existed in that form at the release of the game. They are not a shortcoming of the game, but an aspect of it. Again, people that tend to use "age badly", tend to not dismiss these games, but instead lament that these circumstances make it harder for present day players to enjoy these games in a way that players at the time of the game could.

>>2759212
That's not what I said though, I just think it's a better investment, you can emulate videogames, you can not emulate guns, thus I might as well save money and space, no way am I paying 150bux for Earthbound when I can get it for less than 10 on the Wii or for free on my computer.

>>2759213
The only one who talked about masculinity here is you.

>>2759226
Yes, you are a wanker.

>>2759289
>you can emulate videogames, you can not emulate guns
many video games emulate guns

... I'm not serious

>>2759212
I never saw a vidya game put a deer on a mans table or protect his family.

>>2759330
Never seen any gun do those either, unless you have a magical gun with wife and kids.

>>2759347
maybe not guns

>>2759347
You need to learn more about guns.

>>2759291
Some do a better job than others.
I'm fine with artistic license, but not a lot of games do it right.

People say Cowwadoody is too realistic but it's not at all, weapons of the same caliber and barrel length vary wildly in damage for the sake of balance, a GPMG does little damage per shot, but a rifle shooting the same bullet does a lot more damage because it doesn't hold as much ammo.
It has boring gameplay and actually pretty shit depiction of weapons.

Counter Strike 1.6 had more realistic depiction of gunshot wounds than CoD. Hell, CoD's guns are literally modeled after softairguns and nearly all of them feel the same.

A game which made guns fun was New Vegas, and that's because they were only quasi realistic, depiction was pretty decent, but the guns were fun to use because of the world of the game works, which wasn't all that realistic.

>>2759347
>find deer
>shoot and kill deer
>take deer home, skin and butcher
>use cuts of meat to make delicious dinner for friends and family
It can be an unbelievable money saver to go get a deer (which there can be a lot of meat on), and that's helped a lot of families who have gone through financial troubles, "shit, we're hit by a bad medical bill, but we still have most of a deer in the freezer, so we can still eat well this month"

>>2759248
You know every post has implied IMHO if it isn't a clear declaration of fact that can be sourced.

>>2759487
>It can be an unbelievable money saver to go get a deer (which there can be a lot of meat on), and that's helped a lot of families who have gone through financial troubles, "shit, we're hit by a bad medical bill, but we still have most of a deer in the freezer, so we can still eat well this month"
Not to mention how much fun deer hunting can be.

>>2759532
There is nothing fun about hunting deer. You can chase one down and stab it to death if you feel so inclined. Those fuckers are stupid. Turkey is fun, boar are fun, man can be fun; deer is shit tier.

>>2753430
>Why have the games for this system aged so poorly?

Games don't age. People do. Nothing is fun forever because of the natural learning and adaptation process. New generation gamers might find it easier to enjoy old games than older gamers because of novelty. It's got nothing to do with playing authentically on CRTs and original hardware as some anons here suggest. The people here who advocate playing everything on authentic hardware are either young people trying out a new fad or the older folks who want to relive the childhood that they had missed.

Having grown up watching TV, playing games, and using computers on CRTs, I personally find them unappealing. I don't like scanlines, the whining, blurriness that gets worse as CRTs age. Modern monitors are much better.

>>2759563
>Nothing is fun forever
Games aging badly is independent of the player's prior experience with the game

>New generation gamers might find it easier to enjoy old games than older gamers
And actually, new gamers not enjoying, or being able to enjoy, old games is exactly the issue the phrase "games aging" is about.

>>2753430
no quality control

>>2759563
Games age although most often they were shit when they came out and it only became more apparent. It's only with a paradigm that you can make a comparison.

>>2753430
some of them, some of them did not. i still play the crap out of wip3out and vagrant story, even in software mode in original resolution either on real hardware or emulator.

>>2755993
>Still, a more balanced, less top-heavy system design might have been good.

Are you standing the N64 on its side like a playstation?
It doesn't normally fall over.

>that dying feeling inside of you when shitters can't handle nearest neighbor filtering and calling them "pixelated", talk shit about dithering and calling them "grainy", claim it's mostly shovelware games and can't name anything past top list titles, assume all games have wobbling polygons and post "proof" with emulated screenshots upscaled up the wazoo, artificially worsening the artifacts

It hurts to live

>>2759784
Harvest season is technically over, but you outright slaughtered these straw men, what a massacre.

>>2759784
The hardware inherently has wobbly polygons due to the low-precision fixed coordinate system. There is literally nothing a programmer can do to stop the wobble.

It's true, however, that emulation makes it artificially worse.

>>2759541
Aren't turkeys supposed to be mega retarded? I've never hunted any but I hear they don't understand how to drink water if born in captivity.

>>2759767
I was mystified too, the design layout was pretty typical, low height, ports on front, games go in on top, almost every 90s console was formed in a way similar to this.

>>2759784
I don't recall anyone saying much of that in this thread.

>>2759821
Maybe I should clarify what I meant. Weird polygon quirks are native to the nature of the hardware. The smallest of polygon displacement is often masked by the TV. The really awful cases that everybody rags on, when a portion of a wall or floor starts to warp and dismantle, that can be prevented by the developers. Games like Crash 2, Wipeout 3, and whatever refined games made by competent developers don't show symptoms of warping. How they pull it off I don't know, maybe they know not to make the FOV wide enough that you can see way too close to the camera at your feet.

>>2759824
>I don't recall anyone saying much of that in this thread.
But it is the general response of people who don't quite understand the appeal of this machine. They want to try it out, get an emulator on PC or their phone, and complain it looks like shit.

With 2D games, you can upscale them to look very sharp, and then use (tasteful) scanlines to help remedy the huge blocks of pixels. With PS1 emulation, upscale breaks down at the seams and HUDs look like a mess. If you go with native emulation, it looks unbearable blurry on a monitor. N64 emulation has none of these issues, they look great with real anti-aliasing, high resolution and proper widescreen hacks. Good for them.

>>2759842
>N64 emulation has none of these issues
It has it's own issues, such as barely working at all.

>>2759842
>The smallest of polygon displacement is often masked by the TV. The really awful cases that everybody rags on, when a portion of a wall or floor starts to warp and dismantle, that can be prevented by the developers. Games like Crash 2, Wipeout 3, and whatever refined games made by competent developers don't show symptoms of warping
You're conflating a few different problems with the hardware.

The first is polygon wobble, this is a coordinate system issue, and there is nothing that can be done about it. It is present in every single 3D game, and it is very visible. I have a tiny CRT screen and I can very easily see Crash Bandicoot's polygons wobble when he's idle.

The second issue is affine texture mapping that causes texture maps to warp and distort. Developers can minimize the distortion through polygon subdivision (tessellating surfaces into a greater number of triangles), but hardware limitations generally prevent being able to do this to every single visible surface (too expensive in polygons). I don't really see this issue in Crash, but if I really tried I could probably find the occasional warped texture on a wall or something.

The third is the lack of z-buffer, this means that the Playstation has to sort individually sort polygons or group of polygons which ones are in front and which ones are in back. Sometimes the polygons get sorted in the wrong order, which causes weirdly glitched graphics, but the extent of the problem really depends on the game. You don't ever see this in normal play in Crash, although I do know of a few places in Crash (generally near doorways) where if you position him juuuuuust in the right spot he'll be glitched and drawn over the wall even though he's supposed to be behind it.

>>2759842
>N64 emulation has none of these issues
N64 games tend to have more serious problems, like textures being tiled incorrectly, filtered incorrectly, and seams visible.

Or lighting not working properly.

That's if the games are even a playable framerate without ridiculously broken glitches.

>>2759824
>Aren't turkeys supposed to be mega retarded? I've never hunted any but I hear they don't understand how to drink water if born in captivity.

You're thinking of dodos. Turkeys aren't retarded, they just get that rap from being bred to be so goddamn fat they don't know how to move properly. Turkeys in captivity are generally so fat they can't physically fuck each other.

N64 vs ps1 isn't relevant, games age well on a case by case basis.

The banjo kazooie games aged awesome. Besides some fps drops (mostly in tooie) those games still feel awesome. Most first person shooters age like shit though. I struggle to enjoy goldeneye/turok engine games.

Ps1 2D games age awesome. I feel like more 3D N64 games perform better than ps1 but I have way more airtime on the 64..

I think it mostly boils down to how the games were developed. The PS1 had way more ports while the 64 had exclusives that were independently developed and probably ran better. Over all though, I bet there are an equal number of well aged games on ps1/64

Tl;dr: it's case by case per game. Console is irrelevant to an extent

>>2759883
>Console is irrelevant
Hell yeah. DOS is where it's at, fuck consoles.

>>2753432
>>>/v/

>>2753430
Same reason NES and Genesis/Megadrive games aged way better than Atari 2600.

They were built for hardware that hadn't yet matured. 3D was a blocky awkward infant of a thing that didn't know what it was doing yet, just like 2D was back when Atari was the go-to.

I like to think devs were more aware of stylistic and design elements being important by the time the PS1 rolled around, and even though a lot of games are now tough to look at, a ton of the good ones are still a joy to play.

ALTERNATE ANSWER:
You clearly are/were playing the wrong games, dingus.

>>2759880
Well I know dodos didn't have the sense to avoid people so that's why they all got eaten, but I was always told turkeys were really easy to hunt because they're supposed to be dumb as dirt. They're not, then?

>>2759883
Depends on what shooter you play, early console FPS games could have less than amazing controls, but to be fair, this was all new territory at the time, the PS1 didn't even have analog sticks when Resident Evil was made, and thus wouldn't work with them, you had to get the Dual Shock edition of the game, not an FPS obviously, but just to illustrate a point.

FPS on the PC tends to be easier to get into, Duke Nukem 3D runs without issue on Windows 7 for instance (but there's also the official Megaton Edition sourceport if that wouldn't work).

>>2759921
Fun fact:
Even the original Duke 3D had enough control customization that you could make it play like modern post-Half-Life FPS's right off the bat.

Of course that meant running setup.exe and trudging through some bullshit, but I was totally playing with full mouse aiming, ASDW to move, and CTRL/Space to crouch / jump on my dusty old Windows 95 machine not too long ago.

/vr/ - Guns

>>2759527
When you're implying that other people should agree with you about something obvious, sticking "Well, IN MY OPINION..." in front of it doesn't change anything. The whole point is that yes, we know it's your opinion, so stop making sweeping claims about how some games "just are" as if it's a fact that needs to be acknowledged by anyone else.

>>2753430
Games like Symphony of the Night, Gradius Gaiden, R-Type Delta, Mega Man Legends 1 & 2, Guilty Gear, Time Crisis, etc would like to have a word with you.

I think you're just not playing the right games, man.

>>2757623
It makes them look better? I don't know, it certainly doesn't help me see them any better. Things in a distance are fucked up and smudged to hell.

That's not what a good AA is supposed to do.

>>2759980
Well, yeah, that's how I did it.
Half-Life controls best FPS controls.
I play Doom that way too, just because it feels so good.

Megaton Edition plays fine on the PS3 tho (better than DNF). I think it's nice that there are modern ports of classic games that are easily accessible for younger players today. If just a few bored teens stumble across it on Steam/XBox Live/PSN and enjoy the game, I think it's absolutely worth it.

>>2760472

>>2760472
>videogames
Fun

>guns
Fun

Makes sense to me.

>>2758970
Forget the TV thing for a minute. Emulation allows the use of certain filters which can DRASTICALLY enhance a game's appearance especially on larger modern TVs.

I like Tactics Ogre. Still to this day it is easily one of the most solid tactical RPGs out there. It lacks some of the bells and whistles of say, the Disgaea series, which I also love, but without question it has aged might gracefully.

It is also an important game because it combined everything that was good about previous games like it, and implemented an excellent ruleset with so many bells and whistles that it is still very impressive to this day, without being too over the top and awkward to play. Some things about this game still impress me, such as the ability to shoot melee weapons further than the lit-up square indicators, though with a penalty. That makes sense, and importantly, it makes you appreciate that the developers thought about this and likely discussed it at length. The whole game is finished with a craftsmanship that most AAA titles these days lack.

Anyway, I think it's important that kids that like TRPGs play this game because it's actually better than 95% of the genre that came after it. it defined the genre as we know it. It's old as fuck too, an SNES game, and it costs like $150 or something retarded now for a cart, and even the PS1 version is like $75 or something now (I own it yay!) but truthfully I kinda like the SNES version better. With an emulator with good graphics smoothing it looks as good as a modern game, because the graphics were done with great care but only for the low-rez SNES. If it takes emulation and smoothing to get this game into the hands of kids these days, so be it.

Hardcore vintage game system collectors who play for authenticity and buy games as investments are fine, but let's not assume that every video gamer has the same fucking motivations behind their hobby.

>>2753430

Just play Ridge Racer.

>>2761747
You mean Rage Racer?

I disagree

>>2753430
I think PS1 graphics are better than the majority of PS2 graphics, to be honest. I replayed MGS a few weeks ago, and it honestly looked amazing compared to some of the mid-lifespan PS2 games I have. It's weird, it's like when I'm playing a game from 2004 it looks like ass to me because I know the PS3 could do everything the PS2 did and better

>>2762046
I don't know how to feel that for all these long years, I've been brainwashed to think that Wipeout 3 Special Edition was without a doubt the best, most definitive version. After digesting some opinions and perspectives from people who weren't plebians, I decided to try out Wipeout 3 and now for the first time I can actually pilot these ships with ease. If I wanted to play Talon's Reach, Gare d'Europa and Phenitia Park again so badly, I'd just play WOXL.

>>2762140
I much prefer the ship handling in the SE, but the extra tracks are pretty bad though, they picked some of the worst 1 tracks (terramax, really?) and the completely fucked the lighting on the 2097 tracks. It being PAL only is also pretty shit.

>>2762145
SE was responsible for heavy fishtailing boat with its brakes half working feeling. XL and 3 really does feel like the wing aerodynamics are working, slicing through air.

I also working through Vector and Venom in Wipeout Pure, now that I can emulate it in high resolution with anti-aliasing and played with a proper controller. The physics in that game can be described as "IF ICY ROADS AFFECTED HOVERING AIR CRAFTS." If it wasn't for side shifting to help correct steering, it would be deemed unplayable. Fuck that game.

Also just played Wipeout Pulse's back port on PS2. It's so awful, and I would actually say it was a good game on PSP.

>>2762165
XL does, 3 feels like boxcars. SE was an attempt to rectify that since there were a lot of complaints at the time. Fish tailing was also common in XL, I wouldn't say as much as it was in SE though.
>I also working through Vector and Venom in Wipeout Pure
How did you even make it? Vector and Venom in Pure is just HIDEOUSLY slow. I can't do without falling asleep. Shit handling didn't help either. Pulse was a step up, but it was HD that really got the modern wipeout physics done right.

>>2762165
>>2762140
I'm glad someone else shares my opinion that SE's physics are icky. XL and 3 4 lyfe.

Kudos to the anon making the Wipeout webms though, those games always look good. Especially 3, the track design and backgrounds were so damn classy, and everything was super cohesive.

>>2762179
gnarly wallscrape at :14

>>2762185
making that webm nearly gave me a heart attack I swear to god. Took me a good 2 weeks of practice. Shame I fucked up the part at 0:15 and ended up not getting a good time. those 2 seconds are the bane of my entire existence.
Thankfully this one was much easier, although fuck the blind corners at the end.

Because mid-90s is when games started aiming for the non-gamers of the time and almost everything mid-90s and on is basically garbage, including much of the PS1/N64/Saturn library. There are a few gems here and there but NOTHING like the previous generations' plethora of exceptional games.

Again, /vr/ should have been pre-1995. Would have been so much better.

>>2762210
>aiming for the non-gamers of the time
>Saturn.

Nigga. You were supposed to import for the Saturn. If you weren't partaking of the sweet fightan gaems and shmups, you were doing it wrong.

PS1 had about as many good titles, but for every good one there were 3 more shit ones. The quality to quantity ratio was way down.

N64? Well, if it wasn't multiplayer or Nintendo's first party stuff... you were pretty limited on the quality front. You can count the GOOD N64 games that meet those qualifiers on 1 hand... 2 if you're LUCKY.

>>2762534

Not the anon you're arguing with, but nah, the amount of truly good games is about the same in any console.

Sturgeon's Law applies to video games as well.

There's probably 20 or 30 games that are really must play in every console, the rest is subjective.

People often gush over all the JRPGs on the PS1... I really don't think they're that good, especially now that the FMV novelty wore off long ago.

>>2762540
Y'know. I'll concede that's a fair point.

But for the record, I was never much of an RPG guy, J or W, yet I still said what I said.

>>2762534
>You can count the GOOD N64 games that meet those qualifiers on 1 hand... 2 if you're LUCKY.
This meme needs to end. There are at least 10 good third party games that don't revolve around multiplayer.

>>2762739
Perhaps if you name them. Speak the names anon. It's the only way to invoke their power.

>>2762739
>>2762743
I'll help you out even OOT and Majora's Mask.

>Only 8 more to go.

>>2762743
I'm going to include games that were either exclusive to N64, or had N64 as their main development platform.

Beetle Adventure Racing
Star Wars Rogue Squadron
Rayman 2
Turok 2
Turok Dinosaur Hunter
Battle for Naboo
Space Station Silicon Valley
Extreme-G
Ogre Battle 64
The World Is Not Enough
Harvest Moon 64
Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness
Turok 3
World Driver Championship
Rocket Robot On Wheels

I even provided extra just for you.

>>2762757
So you provided a list with only 3 decent games.

>Rocket Robot on Wheels
>My sides...

Late era PS1 games are a beaut.

>>2762746

3rd party, anon.

I have my own N64 favorites, but I don't know if everyone else will agree with me.

Mischief Makers, Bangai-O, both Goemon games, Hybrid Heaven, Bomberman Hero, Wonder Project J2, Harvest Moon 64, Space Station Sillicon Valley and Beetle Adventure Racing. 10 non-Nintendo games I enjoyed on the N64 off the top of my head. Some of them are japanese (there's more japan-only N64 games I played and enjoyed, like Doraemon, Getter Love)

>>2762763
>implying it's not good (you didn't say great m8)

It's a creative platformer with a fucking physics engine on a 5th gen machine. You give it some goddamn respect.

>>2762165
The PS2 version of Pulse removes some of the features from the PSP version afaik, on top of needing 100,000 points to unlock the skins of a single ship instead of 100,000 to unlock the skins of all ships like in the PSP version.

>>2762781
>removes some of the features from the PSP version

I think you mean, the PSP version included extra features. It was years newer.

>>2762781
psp was released years after ps2

>>2762802
>>2762806
Pulse was released worldwide on PSP in 2007. The PS2 port followed 2 years later in Europe only.

>>2762807
I forgot you europoors got everything late. Sorry.

>>2762809
Technically the US got the PSP version 3 months after Australia and EU got theirs...

The most based feature in PSP Pulse was that you could design your own ship skins on the official Wipeout website. Sadly the website has long been dead since and I don't think anyone's preserved the necessary stuff that's needed for designing.

>>2762816
That doesn't mean you could afford them.

>>2762145
Why didn't you steer up at 0:09? Keep in mind I'm no expert.

>>2762210
Kill yourself, grognard.

>>2762757
>or had N64 as their main development platform.

Thanks for bloating the the list. Please try again. Next contestant?

Also, Turok 2 was an utter mess compared to 1. I don't have enough experience with Turok 3 to speak fairly, and I hate jumping to conclusions, but I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume it was also lesser than Turok 1.

Also, the Castlevania game? It was the better of the 2, but still... come on. Good memories do not a good game make. I love most Castlevania games on most platforms, but the 64 ones were both an uphill battle.

>>2762739
Meme? Dude. I didn't even know it was a meme. I was speaking from what I've played on the system, and what the selection looks like at EVERYWHERE that still carries N64 titles.

>>2763336
>Thanks for bloating the the list. Please try again. Next contestant?
If we made a list of PS1 games excluding those which are not exclusive (even generational exclusives) then we would have to remove MGS, FFVII, FFVIII, SotN, etc

>>2762768
Recently discovered this game myself. Was absolutely shittened.

Best graphics in games are ones that aim for a super stylized look rather than for pushing the hardware. They don't back themselves into a visual time capsule that way, and that's fuckin' smart.

>>2763342
Heavy hitters, true. But the library could still stand on its own, I'm sure.

Plus, just throwing this out there. Not a valid point since it would technically be cherry-picking the argument, BUT...
The Saturn port of SotN is a total mess.

>>2763361
So is the PC port of MGS1.

>>2762909
Normally you can just go straight through those turns, but for some reason I kinda fucked it up and went in the dip a bit. It looked kinda cool, so I kept it. Same reason I didn't steer up here either.

>>2763948
>tfw you go so far OOB off a jump that the game puts you in a time loop

>>2763948
Which wipeout is this? The framerate actually looks tolerable.

>>2764065
That's Wipeout 3 SE, which is PAL-only, so it's actually a lower framerate (25 fps) than usual. I don't know why you're asking like Wipeout games are usually bad, though--I think Wipeout XL/2097, 3, and 64 all hold 30fps quite well.

>>2764101
I could have swore I ran 2097 on an actual PS1 once and the framerate was just fucking horrible. Maybe it was because I burned+swapped the disc?

>>2763948

Man that's hideous. Such low frame rates. Jaggies everywhere. Damn. How could people suffer through this shit?

>>2764105
I'm sure it dips at points (I emulate these days, though I own it on disc and a PS1) but it's certainly not "horrible," especially for the PS1 era. Even back in the day, the GamePro review mentioned the high frame rate as a positive.

>>2764127
Whatever I was playing was running at 30fps at best, and generally felt very non smooth. The webms posted in this thread are all night and day, which makes me wonder what the issue was.

Since my PS1 is fukt anyway I'll be firing it up in emulator if I play it, so it should work there.

>>2764028
I love it when hit detection stops working. This is one of the other reasons to own SE.

>>2764156
meant to post this.
>>2764138
It's not too bad for me, then again I played it with backward compat using my PS2, so that might have helped.

>>2764105
Are you sure your "framerate" issue wasn't just your memories of playing at Vector speed?

>>2754450
>I want to get a backwards compatible PS2
So any PS2 ever?

>>2764138

>The webms posted in this thread are all night and day, which makes me wonder what the issue was.

nah your memory is right, no games run without some hickups here and there, it only looks smooth because recorded gameplay doesn`t have dropped frames or lag in playback.

>>2753447

jokes on you, I was always aware of how shit PS games looked

don`t take me for a nintenfag either, the vast majority of games in that era looked muddy and dark as fuck with lag everywhere.

I can see why some people prefer 2D games all the way to this day.

>>2764639
>I can see why some people prefer 2D games all the way to this day.
Even Atari's shit as mentioned in this thread? Even a good majority of 8-bit and even 16-bit games (to a much lesser extent) can look like shit as well.

>>2764124
I dunno man, that looks, and runs decently to me.

>>2759585
So, like the Atari 2600? And even then systems with "quality control" like the NES still had pretty bad games (in terms of both gameplay and even graphics).