/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2713647
SNES was a thriving ground for RPGs but the real problem for the N64 was the push for 3d graphics and FMVs.
The N64 had too many cons when it came to releasing games that made it difficult which is why people skipped it but it didn't stop everyone from trying something new.

Japanese rpgs were the cinematic experiences of the retro age.
Once it became possible to have animated cut scenes with the cds, those kinds of consoles became much prefered for that genre over the n64.
Also, Square and Enix were different companies back then, and it was Square that convinced Enix to support the Playstation instead of the Nintendo 64.
That is why Nintendo and Square were at war for years until the GBA was released, Square wanted to release games on it, Nintendo wouldnt let them, and they repaired relationships. That Final Fantasy spin off for gamecube was a condition Nintendo put on Square to let them release games on the GBA.

Shiren the Wanderer 2 (aka Mystery Dungeon series) was pretty popular in Japan.

By the way, while there is that infamous Yamauchi interview where he says that "RPGs are for loner otaku" or whatever, it was thanks to him that the Mother series was made at all. When Shigesato Itoi approached Nintendo with the idea for the original Mother, Miyamoto initially rejected it, saying Itoi had cool ideas, but he didn't thought about how to make them into video games (Shiggy was never a big RPG fan, he always preferred action games), and also thought that a game by a celebrity like Itoi (who was already a famous writer and celebrity in Japan) would give a bad impression.

But it was Yamauchi who greenlighted Mother and ordered Miyamoto to call Itoi back.

>>2713687
Also, Nintendo felt very betrayed vy Square.
They gave them the highest honor, making a Mario game (Super Mario rpg), and they left them for the Playstation for a "vain" non gameplay related reason, FMVs.
And after that, Square convinced Enix to support the Playstation instead of the N64.
Yamauchi could not forgive that, that is when he said that rpgs are for depressed nerds with no friends or something like that.

Nintendo and Square havent had problems since the Gamecube gen, after all they are companies, not people who hold grudges.
If a Nintendo console has not had a Square Ennix game recently it is most likely because it cant run it. Nintendo has had exclusive Dragon Quest games recently.

>>2713713
We could have almost dodged a bullet, there.

>>2713728

Ah, you're one of those people who hate Mother because it's fanbase? lol

>>2713713
Man may have disliked RPGs but he had good business sense and knew Miyamoto wasn't infallible.

>>2713734

I'm not that guy and Earthbound is one of my most cherished childhood games, but the Mother fan base is absolutely cancerous and If I ever have a lot of money I will host a large convention in the US for the series and gas the fucking place.

>>2713739

lmao, are they really that bad? I'm not too much in contact with the mother fanbase, but they did the mother 3 fan translation which was sweet.

all fanbases are bad, I think mother fanbase is not as bad as most other fanbases. right now, I hate the MGS fanbase the most (and I love MGS)

Replace JRPGs with Final Fantasy and you may have a point.

No JRPG outside of Final Fantasy actually sold well during that generation.

>>2714509
Then why would they make Breath of Fire 4?

>>2714515
Back in that generation you didn't have to sell a large number of games to make a tidy profit.

Suikoden had tons of sequels and it sold terribly.

>>2714519
You also seem to forget that the PS1 also had a bevy of JRPG competition.

The SNES had a TON of RPGs only in Japan, and if most/all had made it to the west, FF3 and CT probably wouldn't have done as well as they did.

>>2713739
I've never even played Earthbound but why would you ever care about a game's fanbase? How do they affect you?

>>2714525
I enjoy reading about all the weird memory swapping magic they had to do to make carts big enough for some of the later JRPGs.

What anti-RPG policies did Nintendo have? They put out a few of their own.

Devs left the N64 for a few reasons, some due to CDs, some due to Nintendo's licensing, some because it was hard to program for, and I'm sure some just thought they'd make more money putting their games on a better selling console.

Didn't the N64 come 3rd place behind the Saturn in Japan? Could be part of the reason Japanese devs were more interested in the Playstation. Though I guess it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

>>2714598
>What anti-RPG policies did Nintendo have

Cartridge production was Nintendo's responsibility during the NES and SNES eras - guess what games they never brought over as a result of cost cutting?

>>2713647
>Is it more likely that companies just didn't want to put up with Nintendo's bullshit because they knew what the company was like when it came to RPGs?

I'd wager this. The guy in charge at the time was a real asshole especially to third party studios.

>>2713739
I don't see how the Mother fanbase is any worse than literally any other JRPG fanbase, why are you singling them out?

The Final Fanbase is worse because they're a bunch of manchildren who spend more time flinging shit at each other than discussing the games they supposedly love.

The Chrono Trigger fanbase is worse because they mindlessly worship the game while willfully ignoring all its flaws.

>>2713737
>the guy who tried pushing RadarScope in the west
>having good business sense

>>2714617
>The Chrono Trigger fanbase is worse because they mindlessly worship the game while willfully ignoring all its flaws.

As a man who loves CT and Cross, what "flaws" do you speak of?

And from your post, I can guess you're a Mother fan so I see you're a fan of linear garbage compared to a game with TWELVE ENDINGS

>>2714621
>As a man who loves CT and Cross, what "flaws" do you speak of?

The music and art were excellent, but everything else was average at best, which wouldn't actually be so bad if the game wasn't constantly praised as the final word of JRPGs.

>And from your post, I can guess you're a Mother fan so I see you're a fan of linear garbage compared to a game with TWELVE ENDINGS

I've actually never played them, I just wanted to know why he holds such a vitriolic hatred of the fanbase for that series and not any other JRPG series when they're all godawful.

>>2714625
Replace what you said about Chrono Trigger, but about Mother (great music and art, but average everything), then that's exactly his problem. The fans obsess over an average series of games.

You don't know "average" until you've played the Mother games.

>>2714627
Well like I said I've never played the games but apparently it's loved due to the creepy subtext or something. Doesn't really mean much if the rest of the game isn't that flash.

>>2714634
>but apparently it's loved due to the creepy subtext or something

>>2713721
>and they left them for the Playstation for a "vain" non gameplay related reason, FMVs.
They left Nintendo because their income sharing policy was fucking retarded like every dev of the time did.
Do you really think they wanted to learn to use a completely new tech, meaning spending tons of money on buying new hardware/software and on top of that making a gambit by leaving an already successful brand for Sony, who was a newcomer at the time, just for FMVs?

Sony gave much devs a much better deal and services than Nintendo ever did, and I'm not even gonna waste time on how fascist Nintendo was in its prime, it's a well known fact, or at least it should be.

That of course doesn't mean Sont were saints, far from it, they knew very well how much of a profit they could make, but they made the intelligent choice of supportin devs more than Nintendo ever did so both parties would have a bigger cake instead of one side hogging 90% of the profits like Nintendo did, and still does to a certain extent.

>>2714627
Because it's better than your average JRPG? There's nothing wrong with the Mother series - It's a good series with a dedicated fanbase. It may not be the best RPG series, but it's definitely not bad.

>>2714621
Adding fifty endings doesn't suddenly make your game good, you know. Linear games can be very good as well. I'd rather have a linear game that tells a deep, interesting story than a nonlinear game that's boring, dull and predictable in every route you take. I'm not saying CT is boring or bad of course, but dismissing a game just because it's more linear is kind of a dumb attitude. Some games are about story, gameplay, setting and atmosphere, others put more of a focus on exploration. To each their own, man.

>>2714679
>Adding fifty endings doesn't suddenly make your game good, you know

I'm sorry I like it when RPGs have choices like ALTERNATE PARTY MEMBERS, MULTIPLE ENDINGS, UNIQUE EQUIPMENT BUILDS THAT SPICE UP THE GAMEPLAY, NONLINEAR EXPLORATION AND SIDE QUESTS

All that Chrono Trigger is still a charming experience with unique characters and a frightening main boss - without having to sacrifice good gameplay like Earthbound did.

>>2714679
>Adding fifty endings doesn't suddenly make your game good, you know

I'm sorry I like it when RPGs have choices like ALTERNATE PARTY MEMBERS, MULTIPLE ENDINGS, UNIQUE EQUIPMENT BUILDS THAT SPICE UP THE GAMEPLAY, NONLINEAR EXPLORATION AND SIDE QUESTS

All that and Chrono Trigger is STILL a charming experience with unique characters and a frightening main boss - without having to sacrifice good gameplay like Earthbound did.

>>2713739
>le edgy contrarian hitler-gasman

simply ebin

>>2713647
>and how little Nintendo did to cultivate the genre during the NES and SNES era

>>2714691
Freedom is a good thing, it's true. Limiting freedom doesn't make a game *bad*, though. There are a lot of bad games where you have a lot of freedom, and there are a lot of good games where you don't. You don't like Earthbound, I get that. It's not 'garbage', though. I also don't think it sacrificed good gameplay, it's just not a game that requires a lot of party building and skill choosing. It's not a typical JRPG, and that's what gives it its charm for a lot of people.

Play SaGa if you want a more tactical experience, I guess. Earthbound is not Chrono Trigger, both games do different things and they both do them well. Neither game is bad. Just enjoy what you enjoy, what does it matter what other people have fun with?

>>2714727
>You don't like Earthbound, I get that.

That's the thing I don't like about you Mother morons

I played a TON of Earthbound and Chrono Trigger. Two of my most rented/emulated games.

Earthbound's gimmick was that it wasn't a fantasy game. That was it. It was incredibly simplistic and was incredibly linear - even more so than the original Mother.

Earthbound doesn't have a lot going for it outside of nostalgia (including my own). It's not the worst JRPG by a long shot, but still, it shouldn't make "top JRPGs of all time" lists.

>>2714737
>That's the thing I don't like about you Mother morons

You called it 'garbage' earlier and you're calling me a 'Mother moron' now. I think my assumption that you don't like the series is a pretty logical one. Or are you just using antagonizing phrasing just to get a response?

>>2714679
>I'd rather have a linear game that tells a deep, interesting story than a nonlinear game that's boring, dull and predictable in every route you take.

I'd rather have a game that's actually a game with boring, dull and predictable plot in every route I take rather than a corridor simulator with the occasional mash attack to win and "epic" plot.
If I want good plot, narrative and characterization I'd go read a book, that's what they're made for, videogames are meant to be played and have a degree of interaction with them, like being able to choose paths or customize my characters, especially in what's supposed to be a role playing game.
Or you'd rather want all games to be Xenogears like slogs of pretentious quotes, incoherent plot and almost non existent actual gameplay? Because with all due respect to its great atmosphere and characters Xenogears is barely a game.

>>2714758
I don't think any of the Mother games are garbage or bad. Did you even read my post? I loved Earthbound as a kid and maybe play it once every two or three years.

I think the thing that bugs me about Mother fans is that they feel like their game series is special. Like other games just lack that certain something, and then look down upon other games/gamers for not "getting it" and only they, the Mother fans, with their vast quantities of fan sites, fan art and fan fiction, have a deep emotional connection to their franchise. I mean these faggots made a documentary basically worshiping themselves. Oh look, you made a failed petition - WOW. Fuck off.

Guess what asshole? You're nothing special. Every game has its dedicated fanbase with emotional connections to their favorite games. From Fallout to Streets of Rage.

Do I love Earthbound's crude, child like art style? Of course. Does my heart skip a beat during Smiles & Tears? Of course.

But does any of that make EB a good game? Hell no.

>>2714776
You did call it 'linear garbage' in >>2714621, which is the post I was originally responding to. So there's that. You may be right - It doesn't make sense to obsess about a game like Earthbound and say it's the best SNES RPG, because it's probably not. I never said it was, either. But pretty much any game, movie or book with a cult following is not as good as the members of said following say it is, because their whole thing is to clutch onto one specific thing and worship it relentlessly. Get over it. How and why do these people influence your life? They only do because you pay so much attention to them. Heck, these people don't even come to /vr/. I don't visit Mother fansites and especially not their forums, that's for sure.

>>2713647
>was the N64's lack of JRPGs truly to blame on cartridges?

In a word, yes. The N64 cartridges had a ridiculously small amount of memory at a time when developers were looking at everything they could do with the huge space available on optical discs. In particular, the Sega-CD was a huge demonstrator of what you could do cinematically.

Nintendo had a pretty good picture of where they could go with the N64: They could go the 32X route, or the Sega CD route. They chose the 32X, and lost a bunch of market share to Sony because of it.

>>2714716
We got about half of the JRPGs we should have during that time period, to the point that after the consoles became obsolete and homemade cartridges and ROM translations became relatively simple, we had people porting the stuff.

>>2713647
The cost of royalties & media drove away 3rd party support. Nintendo was charging something like $15 per cart produced in royalties and the cost of media was around $10 by itself, then Sony came around and undercut everything, by charging around $5 per game printed using media that cost under a buck to produce. There's a reason I paid $80 for FFIII brand new, back in 1990 and that's because $25 of that was lost to Nintendo & production costs. While in contrast, PS1 games cost a mere $50 because all that overhead was gone. Everything had to do with cost and Nintendo failing to see how much of a threat a massive company the size of Sony was to their business.

>>2714836
>There's a reason I paid $80 for FFIII brand new

Kind of weird how people forget that was the price of games in the SNES era.

>>2713647
To be fair, Nintendo did fix their biased opinions by the GBA era.

god damn this thread reminds me of how shit nintendo has become post-SNES. I hope to god their move to mobile is indicative of them going full third party

>>2713647
I tried to think of a JRPG on N64 and I could come up with is Paper Mario
the fuck was with that console? every game aged like s*it.

>>2714871
>"Every game aged like shit"
>Implying PS1 and Sega Saturn's games are any more memorable

>>2714871
jrpgs aged like shit themselves.
There is a reason why Square has been turning Final Fantasy into an action rpg franchise for years. They think turns based rpgs are outdated, even though the most successful rpg franchise ever is Nintendo's Pokemon.

>>2714891
>what is 2d

saturn + ps1 leagues ahead of n64 because of this. even towns marty has more games still worth playing

>>2714978

This.

Also, WHY the fuck aren't there 2D games on the N64? Surely they would look nice?

Fuck the anti-2D policy at that time bro. It's fucked up until today if it wasn't for indie shit

>>2714860

...That's practically the ONLY rpg on that handheld unless you count pokémon.

>>2715032
Only one that jumps to mind is mischief makers, and that game is fucking awesome.

>>2715035
If you are a fucking casual who knows nothing, sure yes. There is only one RPG on the system.

>>2715032
>>2715235
MM has ugly prerendered sprites. Look at Wonder Project J2 for wonderful pixel art. The only real sprite game on the system I know about. Kirby 64 would've looked much better without polygons.

>>2714978
>even towns marty

But that is literally a PC. When PC didn't have games?

>>2715343
towns marty was the consolized version. also had it's own OS and library of games. basically a console / pc hybrid

>>2714673

It wasn't just Nintendo's ridiculous policies regarding cart production, distribution, content censorship, and revenue sharing.

There were other factors, the N64 was a complex beast of a system, and Sony had way better documentation for the Playstation. The N64 was also late to market and the specs weren't finalized until close to the ship date.

It's been reported that Nobuo Uematsu hated the N64's lack of dedicated sound hardware, and felt that teams within square (Music, Engine, Art) would be constantly competing for memory and CPU cycles and it would limit his ability to compose for the system.

>>2715032
The only reason to make a game for N64 is if you wanted to leverage its more advanced 3D hardware. If you just want to make a 2D game, why on earth would you want to put up with Nintendo's BS when the Saturn and PS1 can do 2D just fine?

>>2715432
Square's 3D programmers were reported as liking the hardware though.

>>2715439
That could explain why the 3D of FFVII kinda looks like shit... They've got fucking brushes for hands.

look where nintendo has gotten themselves now. developing mobile games. hopefully soon they go 3rd party. they deserve it for the shit they pulled after SNES

>>2714849
Not to mention that 80$ was a lot fucking more then than now.

>>2713647
>how little Nintendo did to cultivate the genre during the NES and SNES era

That was only a problem outside of Japan. RPG gamers back then were on PC.

>>2713721
Playstation's strength was not "FMV", but a whole suite of technology that could let developers take of JRPGs to the next level.

>>2715432
>It's been reported that Nobuo Uematsu hated the N64's lack of dedicated sound hardware

source?

>>2716297

look where sony has gotten themselves now. On the verge of bankruptcy, forced to sell their birthplace. PSTV and Vita both colossal failures. PS3 long dead and lost billions. PS4 the worst console to bear the playstation name. Thankfully the company will be bankrupt soon. They deserve it for the shit they pulled with the PS3.

>>2716297
>>2716490
Guys, guys, Nintendo and Sony are both horrible companies who should die.

>>2714849
Wasn't Ocarina of Time a cool $100 at launch?

>>2716526
What's not horrible?

>>2716490
>>2716297
Why can't we hate BOTH companies?

>>2714808
>In particular, the Sega-CD was a huge demonstrator of what you could do cinematically.
What?

>>2716701
FMV games everywhere, mang. Sure, most of them were dogshit, but it was one of the first home console systems that allowed developers to weave spoken dialogue in animated/filmed cutscenes in between sections of gameplay or actually provide voice overs beyond grunts and "Fight!"

>>2715439
>If you just want to make a 2D game, why on earth would you want to put up with Nintendo's BS when the Saturn and PS1 can do 2D just fine?

I think Nintendo themselves could've, should've done it. Cartridges were kinda small in comparison to discs and you could've made way bigger worlds in 2D with more content than in 3D. I'm actually surprised Nintendo didn't utilize sprites more. But I guess they really wanted to push the N64 as a 3D-power house.

>>2716714
N64 could actually push, in theory, way more sprites than either PS1 or Saturn (the Saturn would have an advantage in generating backgrounds, but only in specific circumstances) It would still be RAM limited though, and RAM was usually the bottleneck on 2D at the time.

In practice, the system doesn't really have a big enough advantage over the competition in 2D to justify the extreme cost of cartridges.

>>2713647
I always hate seeing painted consoles like this. The method they use to paint them always fill in the detail gaps, making them look more like a Chinese knock-off made with a bad mold. And they never have the right feel either, they're always ultra glossy and feel cheap.

>>2715243
Why is it that Nintendo put out a 64-bit console and decided that all games had to use bad 3D?
There was no way they could compete with the PlayStation and Saturn on the 3D front.
Meanwhile the potential for 2D sprite games with decent 3D backgrounds was perfect yet ignored.

Even after Tomba! (Tombi! for third worlders) was released on the PlayStation a year after the N64's launch, no one at Nintendo decided that's where their efforts should have gone.
The fact that Wonder Project J2 was released the same year the N64 launch and uses amazing sprite work, while Kirby 64 was released four years after the N64 launch (two and a half years after Tomba!) and they still decided to use those shitty polygon models makes me furious. Nintendo had no fucking clue what to do with their new console and it really shows.

At least they did some really good sprite stuff with the DS, although it isn't retro.

>>2716748
The N64 feels like it was launched because a bean counter decided they would lose more money delaying release than launching a mediocre console.

But then Nintendo has always had a problem with embracing gimmicks over actually working with decent technology.

>>2716748
>There was no way they could compete with the PlayStation and Saturn on the 3D front.
Are you actually trying to say even the fucking Saturn was better at 3D than the N64? Seriously?
>Nintendo had no fucking clue what to do with their new console and it really shows.
You do realize that at the time using 2D was practically taboo right? Kirby used 3D because 3D was what sold games at the time.
>>2716764
>working with decent technology.
What the hell are you on about? N64 was great technology, just let down by a few awful business decisions.

>>2716770
>3D was what sold games
No, good looking games sold at the time. There are plenty of examples of games using 2D sprites that sold really well.

>>2716774
>There are plenty of examples of games using 2D sprites that sold really well.
Such as?

>>2716778
I'd say about 25% of the PlayStation's library.

>>2716782
You mean the part of the library that was niche and sold terribly?

Also I VERY much doubt a whole quarter of the library was 2D

>>2716787
>niche and sold terribly?
This just in: 2D games on 5th gen consoles are gimmicks and terrible.

You sound like someone who was born in 1998 and is just now learning about pre-PS2 gaming from a Kotaku article.

>>2716778
>>2716774
>>2716787
>>2716793
>>2716764

whoooo cares how much consoles sold back in the day. n64 beat out saturn in the west, nuff said.

we should be more interested in talking about actual game libraries. you guys are dragging on a console war from 1995 .

>>2716778
Rayman, Oddworld, and Dragon Warrior VII leap to mind.

>>2716770
>What the hell are you on about? N64 was great technology

They fucked up the most important part going with carts over CDs, favoring 3D over other general purpose game development standards. It was why Nintendo became so reactionary with their next release and so insular on the ones after that.

>>2716823
Thanks for providing an actual answer unlike that other worthless cuck

>>2716778
Legend of Mana, Suikoden 1 and 2, Megaman X4-6, Breath of Fire 3 and 4

I was going to say Xenogears, although that was more polygons than sprites I suppose when it came to mech battles and environments, though it is a good example of development using both modes to creates more realistic environments while relying on traditional sprite work to give characters a level of detail that couldn't be achieved as a fully rendered 3d model. You can toss BoF 3/4 in there as well, although those games relied more on sprites and limited the polygon aspect to basically providing an isometric camera to the environment.

>>2716830
>They fucked up the most important part going with carts over CDs
That was a business decision. A bad one.
>favoring 3D over other general purpose game development standards
That was a business decision. A good one. Well selling 2D games during that situation was rare. Sure you can point to Rayman and Oddworld but those were by far the exception and not the rule. Nevertheless, there actually was a microcode for 2D games made available by Nintendo, so if anybody wanted to actually pick up the mantle to produce 2D games for N64 they could have. Barely anybody wanted to.

>>2716842
Oh, and Castelvania Symphony of the Night. No idea why I forgot that one.

>>2716842
>Legend of Mana, Suikoden 1 and 2, Megaman X4-6, Breath of Fire 3 and 4
>sold well

>>2716843
>That was a business decision. A bad one.

Potato, Potato.

>>2716847
You're right. I fucked up.

>>2716778
Mickey Mania
Castlevania
Mega Man
Mega Man X
Lomax (with some polygons here and there)
Quite a few RPG's, Wild Arms, Arc the Lad for example
lots of shooters like Harmful Park, Metal Slug, In The Hunt
And these games even got localisations, unlike 2D Saturn games.

Yeah, the Playstation is pretty cool.

>>2713721
Nintendo also has those portable Squeenix games that harken to the "golden era" of the RPGs. On the DS there's Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker, Final Fantasy Tactics A2, Dragon Quest IX. On the 3DS, Bravely Default, Final Fantasy Explorers, Dragon Quest XI.

I remember being so excited for FF Crystal Chronicles, because it was the triumphant return of Square to a Nintendo console. Was so let down after seeing the game. Jesus, what wasted potential. I can't believe they kept making those Crystal games well into the DS era.

>>2713739
wEw

>>2714673
>how fascist Nintendo was
What does that even mean
you just picked a random naughty word

>>2713647
>JRPG genre
It's not a genre you faggot

>>2713647
Nintendo for some reason believed that a harder to use environment (software+hardware) resulted in better games. With that in mind, they designed the hardware with a powerful GPU (RDP) but didn't give it enough space for texture storage and to make things worse they added an additional step to the rendering pipeline (RSP). So the studios had to make their own RSP microcode or reuse somebody else's while still having to program the RDP.
The graphics processor in the N64 was much better than the PS1 one but the lack of texture and the difficulty of programming for the N64 (not to mention the cost) made a lot of studios go with the PS1.

>>2719775
Threatening sellers and store owners, not changing the price of consoles and games with the passing of time and hogging the biggest slice of the profits of any game including 3rd party devs while continuosly hampering devs and asking people to fucking bow in front of you is the epithome of fascist scum.

I'm sorry you're young and haven't actually read about how rotten Nintendo always was.

>>2720245
>Nintendo for some reason believed that a harder to use environment (software+hardware) resulted in better games.
Which was correct. No console uses a purely software approach anyway. PS1's GTE accelerates T&L in much the same way that N64's RSP does (the only difference is RSP is not fixed-function).
>but didn't give it enough space for texture storage
The N64's texture cache is twice the size of the PS1's texture cache. The texturing difficulties are down to the memory architecture being unified to the point of absurdity to save costs (single bus for whole console, narrow, few pins, no read under write).
>and to make things worse they added an additional step to the rendering pipeline (RSP)
Having RSP and RDP integrated on the one chip was a strength. The cores can communicate to each other on an internal bus at 1.0GB/s, as opposed to PS1's GTE and GPU which had to communicate on a far slower external bus. The N64's RCP is perhaps the world's first modern consumer-tier GPU.
>So the studios had to make their own RSP microcode or reuse somebody else's while still having to program the RDP.
Programming RSP and RDP is no different to programming GTE and GPU on PS1. The only difference is that you can change how RSP functions with microcode. Yes, it's true that the microcode provided by Nintendo was one-size-fits-all and slow, and it's true that programming your own microcode is extremely hard (but it was always optional). The problems in programming the N64 do not stem from RCP and RDP themselves but the memory architecture.

Also how does this technical discussion have anything to do with RPGs?

>>2717314
>Was so let down after seeing the game. Jesus, what wasted potential. I can't believe they kept making those Crystal games well into the DS era.
Confirmed for not playing with friends.

Seriously, Crystal chronicles was, at it's core, a dungeon crawler like gauntlet, and benefits very much from playing with friends in terms of enjoyment, otherwise it's kind of just a slog.

>>2716878
Are you sure games like Lomax or Harmful Park sold that well? Any source to back that up?

Mickey, Megaman and Castlevania are kinda self explanatory, they were already popular franchises. I also bet the 16 bit versions of MIckey Mania sold better than the PS1 version (which wasn't called Mickey Mania I think, Mickey's Wild Ride or something like that, same game though)

>>2720245
>Nintendo for some reason believed that a harder to use environment (software+hardware) resulted in better games.

What is strange enough, it is a popular belief overall.

>>2713713
"Hmm... this professional writer with a proven track record and built-in audience wants to make a game for my company... I don't know... sounds fishy"

>>2714627
It's one of the least conventional JRPGs I've ever played due it it's setting, tone and sense of humor. If you're going to shit on it the series then that's perfectly fine but don't pretend that average is a word that suits them. Besides, the art is decidely amaeutristic.

>>2714737
It's absolutely a fantasy game, just not a sword and sorcery fantasy. If you're going to say the setting itself is a gimick, fine, but that setting allowed for plenty of situations that you couldn't find in other games, let alone other JRPGs.

>>2714691
That's great if a game is designed around those features, but not being designed around those features doesn't make a game lesser. Would King Lear be improved by having multiple endings? Or an alternate list of characters? The characters in Earthbound each fulfill a specific role in terms of their subtext. Being able to replace them would only hinder the experience because its simply not that type of game.

>>2714776
If it's not special just name another game like it. If you can't, well that's the reason people worship it.

>>2713742
>All fanbases are bad
This. I'm a Sonic fan, and I hate the Sonic fanbase.They're either:
1)Classic Sonic fans who shit on every game post-S&K without having ever played them
2) Stupid kids making shitty "Original characters do not steal" on Deviantart
3)Sick fucks making horrendous R34 with every kind of depraved fetish imaginable, and then some
4)Furfags (Frequently overlaps with 3)
5) Morons who are just waiting for a new game to be released and complain about the most trivial shit they can think of (Green eyes, blue arms, bad redesigns, guns, new Sonic friends, open world sections, plot, etc) while the games are either fine or have way more serious problems like broken gameplay, long loading times, glitches, etc.

This is why you can't even fucking talk about Sonic these days.

>>2722643
Which one of those is you?

The only 2D game that was a big seller and looked similar to the 16 bit platformers was Rayman.
Oddworld had digitized sprites like Donkey Kond Country SNES games, if that counts it was also a big seller.

The only Megaman games that sold over a million units were 2, 3, X and one of the rpg GBA ones.

Perhaps the combination of many 2d games that sold moderately (the Megaman games, Symphony of the night, the fighting game ports, shmups) added up did end up making a big difference.
But most people bought the Playstation for 3d games, the Tomb Raiders, Crash Bandicoots, Tekken, Gran Turismo or Resident Evil.

>>2722656
None of them. I love most Sonic games up to and including SA2, but I'd rather just play the games and not interact with the Sonic fanbase.

Is the GameCube version of Sonic Heroes any good?

>>2722913
Meant to reply to >>2722816

this thread again op?

>>2722913
Don't know, I never played it, but I heard it's pretty good.

>>2722816
But you said you're a Sonic fan, so you're part of the Sonic fanbase whether you like it or not.

So that either means:

a)You're that elitist kind of Fan that shits on all other fans calling them cancer while not realizing you're just another part of the cancer
b)The fanbase isn't all that bad and there are good, reasonable fans like any other fanbase
c)You're not actually a fan.

I hope for you that the correct option is b and you're not a.

>>2722816
>I love most Sonic games up to and including SA2
And why wouldn't you. I never understood the hate for Advance 2. It's pretty good.

>>2714849
I paid $110 for Pokemon Stadium 2 new. But that was in Australia. People are lucky now, Wii U games are only $70 or $80, depending on the store (disregarding sales and old, third party releases), nowadays.

>>2722643
The first 3 reasons sound exactly like the Final Fantasy fanbase, except you also have the abundance of FF7 nostalgiatards and the "fans" who never actually played the game, and only know of the characters from the compilation fanwankery and Kingdom Hearts.

>>2716526
Well Sony is in its death throes already and Nintendo will die out once mobile gaming takes over the handheld industry unless they themselves go mobile.

>>2713687
>>2713721
>tfw I like some of Square's RPGs and think Nintendo was right that FMVs are kind of vain/pointless

I was never very emotionally involved in their dispute but thought it was sad because of some of the results.

Could you guess that Mario RPG was babby's first RPG for me when I was a little kid?

>>2725678
They already have, dude, get with the times. Also Sony's gaming finances are better than even their most optimistic projections, Playstation division's ass is in ice cream right now.