/vr/ - Retro Games

n64 looked horrible either way

>>2706591

yeah fam tbqh i hate the n64, the internet told me to hate it, and I do! I do!

>>2706594
He never said he hated the N64, he said he hated how the graphics look. Quit spewing memes and develop some reading comprehension skills.

>>2706598

n64 sucks! suuuuuuucks! egoraptor was right, OOT SUCKS!!! THE WAIITNG"!

>>2706575
This one looks so uguu

>>2706602
Go be autistic somewhere else. Why can't you accept that we don't hate the N64's games, only the graphics, and that the majority of people on the internet do like the system, and that next to one thinks OoT is a bad game?

>>2706609

GRRRR you're making me mad.

Hate the N64 or burst

>>2706567
The N64 personally is my least favorite system I own, but that's probably due to lack of decent support

>>2706612
Autism in its purest form. Pic related: It's you.

>>2706617
That's blatant shitposting/being in it's purest form. The autism here is that you think there's any sincerity there.

>>2706627
*shitposting/b8ing
*its
Always double check your posts, kids.

test

>>2706636

yipee!!! you're not banned anymore anon

>>2706627
The autism comes from you wailing out ironic shitposts like a fucking banshee and dragging out an unwanted, cringeworthy "joke" for way too long to the point of indecision between whether you're actually sincere or not, and the fact that you were obviously bringing up points in your shitposts (shitty ones at that), such as how "Egoraptor is making people hate the N64" as if you legitimately believe this.

>>2706650
I don't like the N64 but if you think that Arin didn't turn 14 year olds everywhere against OoT you're crazy. I literally never saw complaints about "having to wait" anywhere before and now they're all you see it Ocarina threads.

>>2706650
I wasn't the shitposter, friend. Well, not that shitposter, since these meta discussions are all shitposting in their own way.

>>2706653
Go ask a shitload of random people on the internet what they think of OoT, then show me the results.

>>2706562
What do you mean by unfiltered? I'm playing Ocarina of Time on the n64 on a CRT right now and it looks nothing like this.

Regardless I love the way these screens look.

>>2706650

calm down grandpa, take your pill and go to bed, post-ironic shitposting is bad for your heart.

>>2706665
Unfiltered textures. What else could I be talking about?

>>2706665
>What do you mean by unfiltered?
It's what N64 games look like without the anti-aliasing.

>>2706562
>>2706567
>>2706570
>>2706575
>>2706578
Shit man, it's like I'm playing SimCopter again

>>2706609
>autistic
You should really learn what that word means before you go spewing it around everywhere.

>>2706562
Interesting, please go into more detail about this. Hypothetical question but did texture filtering affect performance greatly and would games run faster if it had not been for the filtering?

>>2706749
Filtering, not anti-aliasing. filtering has to do with smoothing out textures so that they don't look so pixelated, anti-aliasing is filing in pixels partially to get rid of the stair-step effect on lines that aren't perfectly vertical or horizontal.

>>2706805
I don't know for sure how much, but there definitely would have been some performance hit for filtering. I can't imagine it would have been terribly significant, given that Anistropic Filtering has been basically free from a performance standpoint for quite some time.

The N64's heavy filtering was more likely due to the way the hardware handled texture buffering. I don't know all the specifics, but if I remember correctly, the N64's main graphical bottleneck was a small amount of RAM dedicated to storing textures, which required some complicated coding to circumvent. The heavy filtering was an easy, cheap way to use smaller textures without having them end up looking like a muddle, indistinct mess like those OoT screenshots. The Majora's Mask screenshot looks significantly better because MM made use of the RAM expansion pak that allowed for larger textures.

Now if someone could hack in integer rounded vertices for the models it would look like a ps1 game.

>>2706562
It's pretty interesting to see how much N64 devs utilized on the filter to their advantage when texturing things.
On the PS1, you'd end up using a bit more polys (for texture position accuracy, you'd rarely really have anything huge like the bottom of that tree for example) and a larger, pre-blurred texture for many of these areas.

also, did the PS1 even have a concept of UV coordinates
I know something like the Saturn didn't -- you had a square image, and you took the four points and stretched it on the screen, and that was a quad.

>>2706591
>>2706598
>>2706609
How the fuck do you "hate the N64 graphics"? The PS1 looked exactly the same! Wouldn't it be more accurate to just say "early 3D was shit"?

>>2708508
ps1 had far better textures
and they actually put effort into mapping them effectively, instead of using gouraud shading for everything else

R.I.P this potentially interesting thread

2015 - 2015

>>2708508
They didn't look exactly the same. The PS1 looked shitty in completely different ways. Like the lack of floating point geometry that gives PS1 graphics their telltale jitter, or the lack of filtering making the textures look far more pixelated (though better quality overall typically)

>>2708521
This. The carts didn't have the storage space for decent textures. They made up for it by smoothing the shit out of everything.

>>2708521
Far better? lol, more like only a slight difference. Can't really see much texture detail at 240p anyway.

>>2708508
>The PS1 looked exactly the same!
Spot the underage shitter that has no place on /vr/.

>>2708468
>The N64's heavy filtering was more likely due to the way the hardware handled texture buffering
No, the N64 can do texture filtering because the GPU has a dedicated Texture Filtering (TF) unit in its texturing/rasterization pipeline. The hit to performance from activating texture filtering is very low due to this dedicated piece of hardware (although not completely free).

>the N64's main graphical bottleneck was a small amount of RAM dedicated to storing textures
No, the bottleneck is due to the memory bus architecture in which all textures must be explicitly loaded from the texture cache in 4KB allotments. The Playstation offers programmers the flexibility of loading textures either from its 2KB texture cache or from a texture page in its 1MB VRAM.
>MM made use of the RAM expansion pak that allowed for larger textures.
No, the Expansion Pak does not have any affect on the size of individual texture allotments, it will always be fixed to 4KB on N64. With a larger memory though, you can have an improved dynamic loading pool to make streaming into the texture cache more efficient though.

>>2708497
>On the PS1, you'd end up using a bit more polys (for texture position accuracy
Sort of. You need more triangles for large surfaces on PS1 to reduce the distortion caused by non-perspective correct texture mapping.
>pre-blurred texture
You can't pre-blur textures Nearest-neighbor will always make textures pixelated. Generally PS1 textures look better cause they are higher resolution, there's no other secret.

>>2708521
>instead of using gouraud shading for everything else
False. PS1 games tend to use far more extensive gouraud shading than N64 games. This is because loading textures from PS1's VRAM is very expensive, so you load several high-resolution allotments and shade the rest. Also because the PS1 needs many more polygons for texturing than N64, gouraud shading has an additional benefit there.

>>2708468
>Anistropic Filtering has been basically free from a performance standpoint for quite some time.

I know the pic isn't quite /vr/, but it is relevant. I still wonder what the hell is going on with the PS4 and how some games lack Anisotropic Filtering. Hell, this even happened with the PS3. So either the developers are biased, or there has been a recent breakthrough in texture filtering that makes them more performance intensive than ever before.

>>2708718
NOT VR
O V
T T
V O
RV TON

>>2708718
how would a breakthrough cause the same effect to take *more* power?

>>2708525
underrated post

>>2706562
>>2706567
>>2706570
>>2706575
This is probably what it would look like if Nintendo had attempted to port OOT to the DS.

>>2708798
Same way a new engine that does the same shit an older one does but needs more powerful hardware. I don't think there's a major significant difference between Unreal 3 and 4, for example, yet the latter needs monstrous hardware to run.

>>2706805
I think it had a dedicated chip for it, so it was essentially free.

Looks like a PS1

>>2706575
Saria, stop giving me those bedroom eyes.

>>2708508

>>2709589
This one still makes me smile.

>>2708673
>PS1 games tend to use far more extensive gouraud shading than N64 games.

From what I remember most games either used higher-resolution textures with flat shading, or used no textures with static gouraud shading to generate colour gradient textures.

Sometimes they used gouraud shading to do dynamic lightning (per-vertex and sometimes coloured).

>>2709609
This is true.
Also as the time went by, the more textures devs started using on the PS1, while N64 pretty much used extensive amounts of gouraud shading, with tiny decal-like textures there and here. There was obviously exceptions, and especially some late Rare's titles had plenty of neat, all textured graphics.

>>2709589
>>2710620
I wanna see comparisons of the sexiest looking N64/PS1 games back to back. I know one of you elder-god turbo nerds probably has an entire presentation ready to show me.

LET'S SEE IT, SHOW ME WHAT YOU GOT

>>2710620
>N64 pretty much used extensive amounts of gouraud shading
No it didn't. The vast majority of N64 games did not use it extensively. I love how people say Mario 64 used gouraud shading (or even flat shading hah), but in reality it was only used on Mario himself. Almost every single 5th generation game used at least a little gouraud shading on controllable characters (Mario and Crash are good examples), but N64 games barely ever used it on scenery to the same extent as PS1 games.

>gouraud shading, with tiny decal-like textures there and here
I want you to name one non-shovelware N64 game that does this.

>>2710667
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJRPX02A9yY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ahwdIRxjyY

>>2709589
Wow, didn't know the N64 could do 4-point interpolation. I thought it only supported bilinear?

>>2710702
It can do 3-point bilinear (triangular bias) and trilinear (interpolate through mipmaps).

>>2710724
That's not even close to what >>2709589 is suggesting. That's not bilinear.

>>2710727
>That's not bilinear.
It is bilinear, just with one less texel sample. It looks very similar except for the triangular bias. To recreate it properly on PC you would need to make a pixel shader specifically for it.

It's pretty obvious that picture stereotypes both consoles dude, it's not meant to be totally accurate.

>>2710620
ffIX graphics were so fucking good

>>2710730
No fuck off, that ain't bilinear interpolation, no matter how you put it. I realize that pic's supposed to be funny but bilinear filtering won't ever look ANYTHING like that, not even in modern days. If there's a word for that kind of interpolation, it should be quadrilinear.

>>2710745
That pic is probably like a Gaussian filter or something. I thought we were talking about the actual N64 hardware?

>>2708508
The PS looked much worse than this, but it wasn't even a real 3D console, it was also very weak, even compared to the Saturn it was underpowered.

>>2710762
Yeah but Saturn was gay and hard to write programs for so it didn't matter anyway

>>2710693

Gran Turismo runs smoother than that.

>>2710802
it's captured from a real console m8

>>2710693
Aww yeah man, this is exactly what I'm on about. More, post more!

>>2710828
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nek5y4Q0mog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoDXKpg53NI

>>2710840
>dynamic lighting
>crisp jagged 3D models
>particle effects
this is fucking video games, my dick is turning to diamonds as i type this

being loyal to one console makes absolutely no sense seeing as they're all amazing when a competent developer uses them

>>2710840
>>2710667
Omega Boost looks pretty cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSWDAaKvGXw
I always liked the art direction and shading through textures in Chrono Cross.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADzX4pwmuWg