/vr/ - Retro Games

apples and oranges, my nig
have you beaten metal black?

>>2698117
>objectively
this word should automatically cause the post to appear on /v/ instead

>>2698117
Because vertical shmups are all the same. You might as well control a small square and the whole games consists of round projectiles flying at you while you dodge them.

Hori shmups otoh have actual level design

>>2698124
Huh, wouldja look at that!
>>310886285

>>2698117
Horizontal makes better shmups
Vertical makes better bullet hells
Feel free to argue me cause I just wanted to post music

https://youtu.be/UcNMrlWaRWc

Anyway, why is R-Type 1 so damn fun and good.

But R-Type 2 just doesn't have that magic..

Answer me, foolio.

>>2698117
>objectively superior
Based on?
Its a gameplay preference

>>2698136
Zuntata music, so good.

Horizontal STDs tend to be more representational. You're in a ship, flying through a place. Vertical shmup players just want to see a hitbox.

Hori doesn't make shmups, they don't even make games. Hori makes video game peripherals.

>>2698376
Oh, wow, you are so clever and witty.

Bravo

Lads, let's give him a round of applause.

>>2698117
Because you're a scrub who gets his shit pushed in by vertical shmups. Most horis are casual tier.

>>2698657

Nah.

>>2698657
There is nothing more casual than playing a little girl and dodging rainbow-colored dots for >muh score.

Actual hardcore gamers play games where they fight giant penis-shaped aliens and try dodging various obstacles inside veiny spaceships.

>not playing diagonal shmups

>>2698657
You could just turn the monitor or TV sideways... now the genre has switched.

>>2698739
Once you turn a vert on it's side you see how poorly they're designed compared to a true hori.

>>2698117
They're really not. And Darius Gaiden is what made me fall in love with shmups, but I cant be dealing with those giant hitboxes.

Except R-Type though. R-Type is perfection.

Why does this shitty thread gets reposted from time to time? That's the hard question.

>>2698359
>horizontal stds
Oh god, now I'm picturing a shmup sequel to life force where you fight sexually transmitted diseases.

>>2698824
Word.

R-Type 1 is sooo good. The only complaint I have is that the minipods shoot out little sperms when you have the wave laser. It just looks dumb

>>2698657
>Because you're a scrub who gets his shit pushed in by vertical shmups. Most horis are casual tier.
Not sure if bait or dumb... have you ever 1cced gradius 3 arcade or iv?

>>2698838
Because people respond.

What is the definitive Darius II? Arcade or PC Engine?

>>2700463
Arcade Darius 2 is three screens wide.

>>2700468

so, should I play the Genesis or PC Engine one?
I dont know if it is possible to emulate 3 screens, and I prefer no black bars.

>>2698824
R-Type stopped being good after III. Delta was mediocre and Final was legit bad.

>>2700483
>delta
>medicore
pls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW3dL4CghUQ

>>2700475
pc engine, although the game looks fine on 16:9 even with black bars

>>2700463
Megadrive you cuckold.

>>2700501
that is segaia, which i think it's more of a remixed game

>>2700475
Scratch that, if you're emulating you should just play both, really. I think they are different games.

>>2698117
Screen space utilization. That's the only reason I like them more. verts are good for arcades. Which a lot of PC releases try to emulate but for people like me, I get turned off.

>>2700483
>Delta was mediocre

Any good hori's on Dreamcast? Only one I played was pic related but I don't even think it's considered a shmup (still a great game though).

>>2700532
last hope pink bullets, redux, sturmwind, border down

>>2700532
Sonic Adventure 2

>>2698124
fucking hell how is a piece of entertainment objectively good. All it tells me that I'm dealing with an autistic faggot.

>>2698725
Zaxxon and Viewpoint. Any other games?

>>2700541
He said "good horis" so basically only border down qualifies.

>>2700795
lel but they are all the same credit feeding trash

>>2698725
>not playing tube shmups

>>2700801
Well every game ever is credit feeding trash if you're a shit player so i can see how that must be a familiar perspective for you, 1/10 for the bait though.

>>2701128
>Using filters on muh shmups

There is no such thing as a "good" shmup.

>>2701429
Word.

>>2701429
There is no such thing as a "good" video game.

>>2701429
>>2701842
>being this upset that you couldn't get good

This is the part where you complain about "artificial" difficulty.

>>2701873
Tru dat.

>>2701873
The part where you get upset like a baby over people calling your favorite niche genre, the only thing you're remotely good at in your whole life, overrated trash, has already happened.

>>2701878
Owned hard.

>>2701878
It the genre is inherently niche and bad, why did the most normal, mainstream, non hardcore people play shmups in arcades in the 70s, 80s and early 90s?
they used to be popular, I am old enough to remember that.

>>2701878
haha, so mad over me calling out his butthurt shit. I'm not even a big shmup fan.

>>2701932
haha so mad

>>2701887
STGs were never really popular. Back then when they were "main stream" video games in general were actually still very niche.

>>2702205

Space Invaders was the highest-grossing product in entertainment internationally 35 years ago. There was even a rumor that it led to a yen shortage in Japan. Even the lousy home console ports sold a couple millions. Galaga, Galaxian, Defender and Asteroids were pretty huge too. Even the Famicom version of Gradius sold over a million copies just in Japan, you have to wonder how huge it was in arcades.

Also every other 8-bit or 16-bit game was shmup, so it's fair to say they were pretty popular.

>>2702245
They were only popular in Japan. No ass played video games 35 years ago. It's nothing in comparison to how popular games are nowadays.

>>2702251

Every old person I know remembers playing Pac-Man or shit like that when these things were new. You really don't know shit, arcades became a big thing since it was basically how videogames were introduced to the mainstream public. It was fascinating to be able to control things on a screen like that, so it became a novelty and it was good way to spend time outside the house.

Even just the Atari 2600 version of Space Invaders sold over 2M copies, and that was probably just in America since those early consoles were barely a thing in Japan.

How tcan you say the highest-grossing entertainment product in existence at the time (beating even Star Wars) was only big in Japan?

>>2702251
34 million NES were sold in the USA.
And Atari had shmups before.

I am not saying they were "beloved", but they were absolutely something normal average people would play in the arcades during the half an hour lunch break before returning to the office.
The same kind of people that now play games on their cell phones.
They werent even hardcore.

>>2702251
>No ass played video games 35 years ago.
Underage please go

>>2702256
Of course everyone knows Pac-man, but this doesn't mean people played it much. It's nothing compared to how people play games nowadays. Only 7 million copies were sold of Pac-man, which is nothing compared to the 70 gorillian copies Minecraft and co sell nowadays.

Not to mention how unpopular STGs were. No ass played them ever, except in Japan.

>>2702275
you know one arcade machine in 1 bar can be played by hundreds of different people in a year?

>>2702268
There is a reason why Super Mario saved video games in 1983. Because no ass played games back then

>>2702289
Okay I'm gonna stop responding now. Good one, ya got me.

>>2702286
Yea, and they probably only will play it for 5 minutes and then leave. Again, people didn't really play much games back then.

>>2702251
>>2702275
>>2702289
>no ass
What the fuck does this mean?

>>2702275
>7 million copies were sold of Pac-man

That's pretty big even for today, especially for such a shitty port that probably only took 2 weeks by some guy to program in his garage instead of AAA blockbuster games that take years and mllions of dollars to make and usually have a hard time breaking 5M copies.

And that figure only includes the Atari 2600 port. The actual arcade game itself had grossed over 3.5 billion dollars (without inflation) by 1990. It was the biggest arcade game ever made.

>Not to mention how unpopular STGs were

Why do you keep ignoring the examples I'm giving you. Games like Space Invaders and Asteroids were huge, and there were tons of shmups made for old consoles.

>>2702289

Alright this is just trolling now.

>>2702294
I know that there were tons of STGs, but this doesn't mean people played them much. Only Japan always played these games much, because they were way too difficult for other people.

If you really think STGs were so popular, how does it come that there is no Gradius 6, but Super Mario #574? These games were always too hardcore for most people. It's not that the video game audience suddenly became casuals and thus STGs sold worse, it's just that they always only appealed to a very niche hardcore audience.

>>2702294
http://classicgames.about.com/od/consoleandhandheldgames/p/Super-Mario-Bros-The-Game-That-Saved-Video-Games.htm

>Video game industry totally crashed 35 years ago
>but no, you have no idea, 35 years ago everyone played gamess!!!!

>>2700483
Hey come on now. Delta was fantastic.

>>2698117
Because verts are boring as shit.

>>2702301
>It's not that the video game audience suddenly became casuals

Actually, there is a bit of truth to that. People get more casual with every generation. Even Mikami said something about that:

http://www.gamegrep.com/blog/24645-a-look-at-difficulty-levels-in-modern-gaming/

>As Resident Evil creator Shinji Mikami told me as far back as 2001, players used to want to scale mountains in terms of game difficulty; these days, many of them want a gentle hike.

But no, what most likely happened is that technology evolved, people got tired of playing 2D shmups which were all very similar to each other. Now you had games like Zelda, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter... As the medium evolved, more genres were created, 3D technology came around, people who were previously satisfied with shmups grew up and stopped playing games or got other types of games to fill their vidya needs. They weren't satisfied with simple, short games single-player games like Gradius. So they started losing popularity especially after the 80's.

Even so, some types of shmups are popular on smartphones with the kinds of people who were playing them decades ago, but no one wants to pay more than $2 for them since they're just ostensibly simple 2D games.

>>2702304

The crash happened for a variety of causes. Pac-Man was a shitty port, ET was a shitty game, you had no way of knowing if the game you would buy would be shitty so people just stopped buying them. Read the wiki article for all the possible reasons the crash happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_video_game_crash_of_1983

It wasn't because no one played them, it's because people stopped playing them and buying consoles games after a few years for several reasons.

>>2702326
>People get more casual with every generation
No, people do not get more casual, it's just that the audience gets bigger and attracts more and more casuals. But the people who actually played these games back then, probably still will like them. It's just that there never really were many of them who played them.

>Now you had games like Zelda, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter...
How are fighting games, RPGs, or action adventures any less similar to each other? Fighting games also always only follow one and the same concept. And action adventures also mostly all look very similar. Just like they are also still 2d.

You make no sense... Zelda, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter etc... the only reason why these games became bigger than Gradius for example, is simply because they appeal to casuals much better.

STGs always were wy too hard for most people. This has nothing to do with people getting tired of them (how come they didn't get tired of Street Fighter?), it's just simply that they always only appealed to a very niche audience.

>>2702334
Fighting games and RPGs are pretty niche now too with a some exceptions.

>>2702334
>No, people do not get more casual

They do though. It's demonstrably true. Back then games were just tests of skill, that's pretty much all they could be with the technology and business model in arcades back then. So people got used to that and they expected and enjoyed hard games, because that's what games were and harder games gave you more playtime. Then games got easier and easier. The old generation gets used to the new level of difficulty that's being introduced, and the new generation grows up with the easier level of difficulty as the norm. Then it becomes more accepted as the default, and the tougher difficulties are now thought of as "archaic" or "artificial" , "unfair" and "tedious". It's kind of like boiling a frog. except it's the other way around, people become less accepting of high difficulty as time goes on.

>You make no sense... Zelda, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter etc...

What I'm saying is that in the early-80's especially there weren't a lot of options in terms of genres. If you didn't have a computer, you were stuck with shmups, maze games, single-screen platformers like Donkey Kong... With each new year, more genres were born, so people had more options. People who wanted a challenging action game weren't limited to a game like Space Invaders, they could play Street Fighter 2 and actually challenge other players instead of playing the same single-player levels in a shmup against an "AI" (if you can call it that) over and over. People who just wanted a game that tests their skills could pick new genres like platformers or beat 'em ups. People who wanted a good gaming experience could play a long adventure like Zelda instead of the same 45-minute game over and over. As technology evolved and people had more options, they weren't limited to shmups so they moved on to something else.

>>2702350
(cont.)

Also I have to add that the same thing happened to adventure games for example. All the elements that made adventure games popular like character interaction, story, dialogue, puzzles, etc. were incorporated into new genres as technology evolved so people had more options and stopped playing adventure games. Before that if you wanted those elements, you played adventure games like the ones Sierra made because that was the only option.