/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2649791
I like the idea that if you get all the chaos emeralds it actually does something other than slightly change the ending screen.

But the fact that they felt it needed "balance" in the form of eating rings, or that it's a stupid looking DBZ ripoff in appearance are problems.

>>2649791
No. It added replay value. Not to mention the final battle in S&K while playing as super sanic was GOAT.

Now the mini games needed to acquire the emeralds were all kinda dumb IMO.
>to get the mystical all powerful emeralds you must first....
>*record scratch soundbyte*
>Run thru a tunnel! Derp de derp!

>>2649796
What would you have changed? I like the faster movement and invincibility aspect of it.

>>2649796
>f eating rings, or that it's a stupid looking DBZ ripoff in appearance are problems.
Everyone loves super saiyans!

>>2649824
worst character in the game, tbh fam.

>>2649791
it was a cute DBZ reference, there's nothing retarded about it

and then Hyper Sonic was to go even further beyond
I wanted to post the webm of that scene, but it's 5 minutes long with sound and this isn't /wsg/

>>2649830
>tbh
>fam
>>>/v/

>>2649964
mad at memes

>>2649824
So many fucking games had DBZ super saiyan bullshit.

>>2649830
>tbh fam.
shut the fuck up stupid

>>2649791
It was cool as shit. I'm no dragonball fan but it's a shame if it did rip them off.

>>2649818
Did we play the same doomsday zone? It was a boring dodge the missle and grab rings so you don't die because of arbitrary time limit while you SLOWLY chase a robot and every time you hit it you're forced back a few screens to drag your ass back to the robot. It was tedious as all hell. A shmup stage where you could fire chaos energy at shit or rampage across the outside of the death egg or a space station would be way cooler. Or fuck, if you gave us a first/ third person behind view a la outrun as we chase down the robot it would be way cooler. A new set of sprites/mode of stage would be a great reward for collecting 14 of those fucking emeralds, instead of one tedious chase scene. The whole point of the game was mastering jumps and timed button presses, the doomsday stage is a poor mode in that regard, even firing bullets like a shmup would work better theme/gameplay wise.

>>2649819
I'd have added a new stage, or the bonus stages would change to a new type for fun instead of emerald hunting if full new stages were too hard to make and implement. Or see above for how to make the final stage not suck.

>>2650137
>It was a boring dodge the missle and grab rings so you don't die because of arbitrary time limit while you SLOWLY chase a robot and every time you hit it you're forced back a few screens to drag your ass back to the robot. It was tedious as all hell.

You could just hammer the jump buttons to do an air speed boost and kill both bosses in SECONDS. For the first one, you can fly around in circles so fast that the homing rockets had no chance, and for the second you can hit it faster than its bombs and mines hit you. Heck, the bombs and mines just hit you as you rebound, but hammering jump gives you so much speed that the bombs only slow you for a half second. I think there was also a sweet spot in there where none of the attacks could reach you and you just had to dash forward, but I might be wrong on that.

And the beginning part had hidden routes where you could pick up huge stacks of rings, even scoring an extra life.

Personally, I think Doomsday was a huge breath of fresh air, and it really had a "desperation" feel to it. First you defeat Robotniks giant machine that can only fit its face on the screen, then he tries escaping with the emerald and you stop him. Then the whole space base goes kaboom, but he STILL tries escaping with a last ditch spaceship, and when you blow that up it then jettisons the inner robot and STILL tries saving the emerald.

It really felt like he was pulling out all his cards on the table, and you had to race to stop him properly this time or he would just rebuild.

I also liked how the music sped up if you were low on rings. Really put the pace on things.

Really, all the later "super final levels" that Sonic games had, were way, way worse than Doomsday. None of them had so ace music and presentation.

>>2649964
>>2650135
pretty salty tbh.

>>2650167
>Personally, I think Doomsday was a huge breath of fresh air, and it really had a "desperation" feel to it. First you defeat Robotniks giant machine that can only fit its face on the screen, then he tries escaping with the emerald and you stop him. Then the whole space base goes kaboom, but he STILL tries escaping with a last ditch spaceship, and when you blow that up it then jettisons the inner robot and STILL tries saving the emerald.
Finally, someone else thinks like how I think.

I always thought the music was insanely good at reinforcing this idea.

>>2649791
No but I do find the idea of all other super forms retarded.

I really dislike it, yeah.

>very difficult to not transform, especially in 2
>can't hear the level music which is always superior to the super sonic music
>acceleration way too fast, precision platforming made much more difficult
>trivializes almost everything that isn't precision platforming, game immediately becomes pretty dull to play as a result
>minigame to get emeralds is usually not fun at all

On a conceptual level, it doesn't bother me, but I hate the gameplay it brings to the table.
I don't mind the super sonic final boss fights though.

>>2649796
>or that it's a stupid looking DBZ ripoff in appearance are problems.

Nigga, in 1992 seeing Sonic transform into a mother fucking Super Saiyajin was the definition of awesome.

sonic 1 was the best. spin dash and chemical zone music was the only good thing from future games

>>2649791
I liked it. Felt like a nice reward for getting all the emeralds, even if it does make you go way faster than you should. Sonic has shamelessly threw references everywhere since Sonic 2 so I didn't mind the Super Saiyan appearance.

>>2649818
This exactly. The challenges are pretty tough, but probably only because they are so retarded.

When sonic 2 was released, I didn't even know dragonball Z was a thing (or dragonball).
Didn't air on TV till about 1997 or 98

>>2650167
>Really, all the later "super final levels" that Sonic games had, were way, way worse than Doomsday. None of them had so ace music and presentation.
Do you even LIVE AND LEARN, bro?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H70emkCT8o

>>2650571
>sanic the hedgehog is a freedom fighting derp with everything going for him... Only problem Is...
>*record scratch*
>he needs to collect all seven chaos emeralds! ...AGAIN!
>This time it's not tunnels he needs to worry about its red spheres! And he is going to find out that collecting blue spheres is harder than it looks!
>Sanic the hedgehog in.... Sanic 3
>rated E for everyone

>>2650464
>Saiyajin
weeaboos pls go

>>2650679
Finalhazard actually did have nice presentation. The voices from the ship, the soundtrack, the giant monster with a space station rammed up its ass (a little retarded, but it always seemed like a desperate final attempt by the Biolizard), the hand-off mechanic. It probably could have and should have been a little better as a boss, but overall, it's pretty fucking cool. Biggest issue is that it's easier than Doomsday, unless you just get really unlucky and dicked repeatedly by the two lasers.

>>2650167
>First you defeat Robotniks giant machine that can only fit its face on the screen, then he tries escaping with the emerald and you stop him. Then the whole space base goes kaboom, but he STILL tries escaping with a last ditch spaceship, and when you blow that up it then jettisons the inner robot and STILL tries saving the emerald.
That entire last series of bosses at the end of Death Egg was way too fucking cool.

even that fucking gap between the Doomsday bosses where he's busy exploding brings the tension sky high (doubly so if you're low on rings)
Doomsday is probably my favorite final boss in anything.

>>2650942

latin american dub actually.

>>2649796

it's not a rip off, it's a homage

Some of sonic team moved from Japan to America to work on Sonic 2, Super Sonic is a nod to Japanese pop culture, DBZ and the death egg is a nod to American pop culture, Star Wars

>>2649791
I find the idea of your existence plain old fucking retarded.

I think it's like how light sabers are to the west.

Akira Toryama is like the George Lucas of Japan.

>>2651962
uh no

Tomino is the George Lucas of Japan

>>2651962
>>2651996

both wrong, Kojima is the Lucas of Japan.

>>2649791
It's a game series about an anthropomorphic hedgehog who can run at the speed of sound, his best friends are a fox and anteater, and his main nemesis is a ball-shaped scientist who likes to kidnap animals for reasons I do not recall.

I just roll with it.

>>2650015
>>2650198
Yeah because you make us underage posters who actually care about retro games look bad you faggot.

>>2649791
>DBZ references
>Star Wars references
It's clear the makers of Sonic were huge dorks and the whole thing wasn't meant to be taken seriously, but then SatAM and Archie happened and the entire western Sonic fandom was ruined forever.

>>2650464
Sonic 2 was the first one I played, I had no idea about anything. So yeah, the BGM suddenly changing and AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH took me by surprise.

about as retarded as mario finding a cape that makes him imitate Superman, another cultural icon.

I kind of wish there was a different way to activate the transformation. Can Knuckles even glide without transforming once he's gotten access to it (and has the necessary rings of course)?

>>2652691
I believe in Sonic 3 and S&K if you had a shield, you could double jump and not have to transform. I know for sure that was the case for Sonic anyway.

>>2652726
Yeah, Sonic won't transform with an elemental shield, but Knux doesn't alter his moveset when picking up a shield so the glide triggers the transformation.

>>2652141
>Anteater
>Not Echidna

It's right there in the fucking name.

>>2649791
>When Sega had an original idea that was an interesting twist
>Dragonball shamelessly stole it now animefags think Toriyama was a genius

>>2650464
Hi friend

You must be mistaken since Sonic 2 was released in September 1992. Dragonball Z did not have a Super Saiyan transformation until March 1998.

>>2652569
Me thinks you put too much blame on Archie.

There is still the matter of the later games.

>>2654131
I think Archie did a better job than any Sega game that came after Heroes.

>>2654139
Especially now what with the reboot after giving Penders the boot.

>>2652108
no. Suda 51 is the Quentin Tarantino of Japanese Videogames.

>>2654146
This, I would say, is the truth.

>>2651025
>That entire last series of bosses at the end of Death Egg was way too fucking cool.

At the part where the Death Egg is exploding and Robotnik is using his hovercar to run away with the emerald, try this. Run fast enough to reach him, then press down to spin up, and then jump and keep pressing forward.

This way you'll lose so much momentum that you'll be something like a pixel away from the bottom of the floor as you run forward on the collapsing panels.

It looks more intense that way.

And let's not forget that the Death Egg boss had to be defeated twice (once the arms, once the face, and it shot you with a full screen emerald powered superlaser), and before that you also had a full boss, one of the trickiest ones in the game, even.

>>2654126
I hope you're trolling. "Life or Death" was published on April 1, 1991. Sonic 2 was released November 21, 1992.

>>2654129
See >>2654272

>>2654131
Archie was so-so but it got stupid with Penders and his Original The Characters.

It was the cartoons that gave the series a bullshit furry world originally, then the comics, and then the insane shitheap that Sonic Team released starting with the Dreamcast.

So which game is the best to play as Super Sonic?

>>2654126
I bet you think Dragonball stole the Kamehameha from Street Fighter.

>>2654367
>I bet you think Dragonball stole the Kamehameha from Street Fighter.

No, they stole it from Sub-Zeros freeze move.

>>2654129
>Dragonball Z did not have a Super Saiyan transformation until March 1998.

Dragon Ball Z ended in like 1995.
Dragon Ball GT started airing on 1996.

>>2654129

No, that's pretty cool. But then the same music just loops over and over.

>>2654274
>>2654272
He probably meant that it didn't come out for American audiences until 1998, which is when the anime episode premiered in the US.

>>2654376
>I was just pretending to be retarded!

>>2649791
It was a silly design joke that went too far as the games gained continuity and got serious. Now you have the current producer of the series saying only male hedgehogs can get super forms, like this is actually Dragonball.

>>2655189

Europe and latin america got into DB/DBZ before the US.

>>2649818
It blows my mind that it took them until Sonic 3 to make acquiring the Chaos Emeralds actually be enjoyable.

>>2649824
The only part of The Last Blade 2 I didn't like; Perfect game for me otherwise.

>>2655265
This, and everyone final boss plays out exactly the same trying to recreate the & Knuckles last boss fight.

Super Sonic was fine in the 2D games. It got retarded in the 3D ones.

I was about to type "anyone else find the idea of Sonic just plain old fucking retarded" and I remembered that hedgehogs can run surprisingly fast.

>>2658234
>he doesn't like the rotating level in sonic 1
come on

>>2655265
>Now you have the current producer of the series saying only male hedgehogs can get super forms, like this is actually Dragonball.

oh my god, really? That is amazing. Did the current producer happen to grow up a fan of the series? That has all the earmarks of being an inmates in charge of the loony bin situation.

>>2655189
In 1998 we were still in the limbo of the first two seasons repeating over and over again. Every time Goku showed up on Namek it would start over. It wasn't until late 1999 that the in-house dub started and we finally got new episodes and I'm pretty sure the Super Saiyan episode aired around September of 1999 so I dunno where he even got the 1998 date from.

>>2658256
Super Sonic was joke on supersonic speed, too.

I would like it more if it was disabled during boss fights and didn't replace the stage music. I actively avoid going SS in most sonic games because of those things

>>2649791
No, not really.

>>2658535
Jesus Christ, really? Fuck, I'd read the whole entire manga by 1996.

>>2649791

no, you might really be autistic is it bothers you though.

>>2658567
Yes. Being an American DBZ fan in the late 90s was pretty suffering, in between the really lousy dub and the shitty scheduling that came with it. The movies had great dubs, though, at least until the fourth one when Funimation took over and they replaced the soundtracks with crap like Disturbed or whoever else.

Though if I wanted DBZ uncensored with the original music there was always the Spanish dub on Telemundo early in the mornings, even if I didn't understand Spanish at all. I don't think they ever showed anything past Cell, though, for some weird reason.

>>2658551
>supersonic
seriously contemplating suicide over the fact I didn't think of this

>>2658596
>and they replaced the soundtracks with crap like Disturbed or whoever else.

I don't know all the music they used, but I remember that they had at least one Dream Theater instrumental in there.

>>2658606
I totally forgot about that, but yeah, that was the Trunks special, and it's the only, only time I'll concede with the dub music being a pretty cool replacement.

>>2654328
>So which game is the best to play as Super Sonic?

Sonic 2, if you do the level select cheat, and before you turn into Supersonic you destroy an invincibility monitor, then pause, hold B for auto frame advance, while mashing C to jump and turn into Supersonic. Then unpause.

The pause-hold-B is necessary because it bypasses the music change event, so you can listen to the original level theme as Supersonic (his theme is awesome but it gets really goddamn repetitive after 20 minutes straight).

The invincibility monitor is just to get more trailing stars after you.

Speaking of which, how did they do the invincibility stars in Sonic 2 and 3? Was it some clever animation where they multiplexed multiple stars into one sprite, or the game actually loads the 20 or so individually animated star sprites? The latter sounds like a huge tax on the machines power, with it being limited in the amount of sprites it can draw on a line.

>>2658608
Yeah, well, DT was at their prime around that time (~2001-ish I think, with the Scenes from a Memory tour).

>>2658613
There's a Game Genie code to keep the stage music playing.

>>2654131
>There is still the matter of the later games.
Those later games weren't around in the mid-90s to ruin the fandom. Even back then you had people obsessed over Archie and Satam.

>>2658649
Oh well, if you're speaking purely by period, yeah.

>>2654129
motherfucker.

>>2649791
Sonichu it's that you?

>>2661401
Underage is that you?

>>2653513
>He doesn't know what am echidna is.

>>2649791
>OP is just mad because he can't get all the Chaos Emeralds

>>2650798
>>2650798
S3&K special stages are hard at first, but with a bit of practice, they aren't that hard. They actually were a fun challenge for me. With the Internet these days, you can find the map layouts of the stages and study them, so you know when and where to turn and jump.

S2 special stages are pure bullshit though. Can't do them all.

>>2661740
S2 special stages are the definition of Trial and Error. They aren't as terrible as people make it out to be, but for a newcomer it's pretty damn hard to get the chaos emeralds casually unless you know every single special stage location. Super Sonic in that game feels pretty bad for me to be honest. It's best to just play the game normally.

>>2654328
S3&K

>>2661740

Sonic 3's special stages are easy, once you learn that you can turn spheres into rings by getting the external ones (you know what I mean), it's really easy.
The S&K ones are more difficulty or easier, depending on how you play, they feel more "on rails", more straightforward, but it's easy to fuck up. The whole jumping with the gold spheres, and using the white spheres to bump yourself and go backwards, etc... but they're not that hard either.

Sonic 2's special stages can go fuck themselves if you're playing with Sonic and Tails. They just ask for too many damn rings, in the last one, even if you don't get hit by any bombs and get most of the rings you can still be short of rings, the number of rings required to keep going is lower if you only use Sonic and it's more acceptable.

I always liked Sonic 1's special stages, simple but fun and highly psychedelic.

I think it was fine when it was just an easter egg, but then it got taken too far.
Making getting the chaos emeralds a super integral part of the game and making Super Sonic be the endgame of every game instead of just a fun extra really made him lose the charm.