/vr/ - Retro Games

Didn't you make like this exact same thread a month ago

Well duh, you're playing the dumbed down version.

Get L:SS for the MegaCD.

>>2598602
>don't get why people on here drool over it
I've never really seen fawning praise for Lunar, except a few people who say they enjoyed it back in the day. Personally I was blown away by the graphics, particularly the backgrounds, and the anime fmv -- back in 1993. These days, not so much; I can understand why someone today might enjoy it. I would hope that someone interested in retro games would try to place these games in the proper context when they play them.

>>2598602
No one drools over that game. And only a few people drool over the good versions

>>2598602
EB is better

I really liked Lunar, the combat was engaging and the world beautiful. I beat the false dragon outside the fishing village before quitting, at some point I'll go back and finish it up.

>>2598629
>implying that version isn't even more dumbed down

>>2598635
>good versions
I suppose you are one of those die hard sega cd geeks, that version is even worse, and the only real difference between it and the PS version is that there is MORE content in the PS version and everything isn't so ridiculously huge so I never understood that argument.

>>2598639
>the combat was engaging and the world beautiful
maybe if you like a really dumb down version of the FF fighting system and 20 shades of brown, sure.

>>2598672
I don't think we played the same game, homie.

>>2598683
>implying that looks and acts nothing like this

>>2598689
Most 16 bit JRPGs shared a lot of similarities broseph. That doesn't mean they all played the same.

>>2598668
>versions is one version
I suppose people can read what they quote. I supposed wrong.

>>2598705
But they did, jerpergers are shallow garbage.

>>2598664
If you don't like the PSX version then you probably won't like the original's much either, but they are much better. Especially Lunar 2, the remake even has missing animations, music tracks and shit like that.

But anyways that's all besides the point. If you don't like the game, just stop playing it. No one is forcing you to, and not everyone likes the same things out of a game. Go play something else.

>>2598602
I agree with you actually. The main draw to this was WD's "enhancement" by fart jokes and Wheaties.

If anyone ever drools over it here though it's usually nostalgia for the SCD version. To be fair, 2 is a really pretty game on there.

>>2598602
I liked it and thats all that matters to me.

>>2598912
>The main draw to this was WD's "enhancement" by fart jokes and Wheaties.

Dude, that is the biggest thing people complain about in those games. Victor Ireland and his obsession with shitty Clinton jokes nearly ruined the games.

The appeal is that they're solid, well balanced JJRPGs with a cool story, beautiful graphics and great music. If someone doesn't like JRPGs in general it's not going to change their mind, but for those who do the Lunars were great additions to the genre.

>>2598602
>I don't get why people on here drool over it
It's the music

What is the rarer version of Lunar 1 for the Sega CD?

Anyone ever attempted collect all 10 or so different picture disc editions they released?

>>2598932
For fans of the genre it really stands out, but JRPGs are a divisive genre so they're not going to blow anyone's mind who doesn't like them in the first place. Same with pretty well any genre.

You could say the same thing about SFII Turbo.

>>2598789
Just like all the other video game genres.

>>2598689

Notice how the FF fighters are gonna stay where they are the entire fight. Lunar has actual field management

Lunar made me paranoid towards any JRPG which has a swordsman as a protagonist. Jesus, they are always the most boring part of the group.

As for overrated games, Legend of Dragoon.

>>2598683
>>2598689
>>2598705

Most JRPGs have the same core set of commands during battle: attack, magic/mantra/tech/whatever, item, defend, and run. Once you've played a JRPG, you've played them all.

>>2599672
This.

>>2599672
Most platformers have same core set of commands: jump, run etc. Once you've played a platformer, you've played them all.

I don't even like JRPGs but that's just fucking retarded dude.

>>2599681
It's actually true, platformers are a gay genre for little kids with 'tude.

I liked the original SCD version back in the day.
I replayed it as an adult and was horrified by the hand-holding, especially in L2.

I never liked the PSX reboot. The story's better, but I would have preferred to watch it in cartoon form rather than "play" through it.

>>2599684
Dude. I fight you. To the death.

>>2599684
Again,
>>2599462

>>2598998
People who don't like JRPGs aren't going to drool over any JRPG. I can't believe more people aren't agreeing that it's the music. I'm not even a music person and every time I play Lunar it always strikes me "Jesus this has good music" and it will always be notable as one of the very very early multimedia JRPGs in English. The j-pop sound changed by the time it started to be common in translated games.

>>2600806
Not really, no. This game has some of the coolest music on the Super Famicom. It blows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01FtF9wqcJQ

>>2599721
L2 as in Eternal Blue? It doesn't hold your hand. It actually has some really cool dungeons. And while it has a PC style save system, the resource requirement deters you from abusing it (although it isn't actually steep enough should you really want to).

To answer OP, people like JRPGs for the light anime stories, art, music, and graphics. Having a somewhat involved gameplay is a bonus. Eternal Blue has really good dungeons and the combat isn't mindless.

>>2599721
>>2600806
>>2600817

Lunar 2 Sega CD has what I consider perfect balance as far as JRPGs go. Which is that by exploring each area fully, but not stopping to grind for the sake of grinding, each boss you get to is a good challenge that almost depletes all your resources. That sets it high up in the genre for me.

Also the movement on the battlefield was quite cool for it's time. Not a lot of games did that and it added some extra fun to random encounters and strategy to boss fights.

Other than that mostly I just like the characters, story and world which is mostly what JRPGs are about. Lunar 2 especially is actually my favorite JRPG of the 16 bit era.

Also agree that the music is really good, some of my favorite of the era. I remember in the days before I could find game music CDs, I made a set of cassette tapes from the game itself.

But definitely, it's not going to change anyone's mind who doesn't like the genre.

Maybe rpgs aren't my thing but...I don't think Chronotrigger holds up and it's not very replayable

>>2601416
I never got the hype for Chronotrigger either. I even like rpgs. It's not bad or anything, but I never got why it became so popular.

>>2598602
Valkarie Profile is mine. I remember following the game before it came out and getting super hyped for it. Then the whole thing just felt slow and clunky and boring as all fuck. I pushed my way through several hours of it hoping it would get better and then never played it again.

>>2598998
I state right in the OP that I like JRPGs, got to love selective reading.

>>2600817
again, reread the OP, I like JRPGs, the story for the lunar games is dull and uninteresting, also, to me gameplay is still important in RPGs, which is why I hate the later period final fantasy style games, if I just wanted to read a story or watch a movie I would just play a visual novel or... well... watch a movie. Not that story isn't important, but even when you factor that in, the story of the Lunar games is stiff and one dimensional and boringly cliche. I mean yes most JRPGs have cliche story lines, but it seems to me like these games were just going out of there way to be as generic as they could

>>2598736
there are two games, I assumed you meant both of the games

>>2599681
Most shooters have same core set of commands: move, shoot, drop bomb, screen clearing attack. Once you've played a shooter, you've played them all.

>>2601450
He was explaining that you're not really a fan of the genre.

>>2601458
I disagree with all of that. Except the story being kind of standard. But all RPGs have pretty standard stories.

The gameplay in the Lunar games is great. Even in the Playstation versions, where they cut out the dungeons. The combat is still tactical and you'll die if you don't pay attention.

>>2601458
Name some jrpgs that you actually do like.

>>2601490
the dragon quest games, Lufia 2, the Tales of.. series, the list could go on.

>>2601486
>But all RPGs have pretty standard stories.
yes, I already pretty much said that, but the good ones do so without being as dull as staring at a rock of five hours.

>>2601494
Can't really help you then. The Lunar games don't have dull stories.

>>2601485
because I don't like two games in a vast selection of available games? oh, ok then.

>>2601491
Okay... So what do you want out of this thread? A lot of people really liked the Lunars for reasons already outlined. If you don't, that's cool. We don't all agree. I tried to get into DQ IV several times and can't stand it. Seems we have different opinions. Should we call each other faggots for a hundred posts or just leave it at opinions being opinions?

>>2601501
I never called anyone faggots and all the posts I responded to were ones that seemed to be outright insisting that every RPG fan should loves these games and I'm not a real RPG fan for not liking them.

>>2601503
I didn't say you called anyone a faggot, I was just asking what you wanted out of the thread. I don't really understand when people start a thread that's just "here's a popular game I don't like." Are you looking for other people to agree? Are you looking for other popular games other people don't like? Honestly curious here.

>>2601503
> all the posts I responded to were ones that seemed to be outright insisting that every RPG fan should loves these games and I'm not a real RPG fan for not liking them.

So you responded to the troll posts and ignored the people outlining why they liked the game? Way to make a great thread OP.

>>2601506
I was looking for people to post games in a genre that they are familiar with but do not like even though everyone else raves that they are great... it's not really that hard of a concept to grasp... but instead it turned into a shitstorm about this this single series.

>>2601509
Maybe if you started the thread with
>I am looking for people to post games in a genre that they are familiar with but do not like even though everyone else raves that they are great

Instead of just some complaining about why you don't like Lunar. Also this >>2601508

>>2601508
the posts I was responding to were not troll posts, they outlined why they liked the games but still made out like every RPG fan should love these games... Not every stupid/not well thought out comment is a troll you know.

>>2601514
I was outlining why I didn't like the game because everyone always gets all defensive and insists to know anyhow. Also, I'm done, there is no winning with you guys.

>>2601518
> Also, I'm done, there is no winning with you guys.

What were you expecting to win? You say you think the story is boring, people respond and say they disagree and like it. What more conversation did you want out of it? It sounds like you're just upset we didn't fall in line with your opinion.

I like Action RPGs, but think Seiken 3 kind of sucks. We can talk about that...

>>2601531
That's all these threads ever are. "I DON'T LIKE THIS, VALIDATE MY FEELINGS!" People can't just have an opinion anymore, they have to make sure it's the "right" opinion. And you're wrong about SoM3. That game rocks.

>I made a set of cassette tapes from the game itself.

Holy shit I thought I was the only one who did this. Somewhere I still have one where a whole side is just the Zozo music for 90 minutes.

Aren't Lunar games entirely linear? As in no character customization whatsoever, no (or few) sidequests, no open world, etc.

I don't see any appeal in RPGs like that. The only thing to do is beat the game, and then what? There's no replay value.

Stuff like that is very overrated in my book.

>>2601578
Its engaging, I'll play Eternal Blue again eventually. No more linear than FFIV, which I've played several times. And I'm not the only one, given how often they reprint that game.

Its not like "open ended" means much anyway. I always use the same party in games like Baldur's Gate 2 and Final Fantasy 6 anyway, and do the same quests (all of them). The end effect isn't much different.

>>2601578
They do have open worlds, and a few subquests. Lunar 2 has a couple of pretty great extra dungeons in it's epilogue. Which is another thing I like about that game, how many RPGs have an epilogue in them where you get to go on a quest after you've beat the final boss? Had a great time going around talking to everyone again, getting my party together again to tackle some challenging dungeons.

But in general, yes. They're more in the set character Phantasy Star vein than the FF customization one. At least if that stuff turns you off, there are plenty of other games out there.

>>2601580
What's your fav VI party? I like Terra (esper transform is cool), Sabin (fighter inputs are fun also bum rush), Mog (fucking CUTE, plus fun dances) and Gau because I love me some rages.

Every single 16-bit JRPG ever made.

Even Chrono Trigger, which was an okay game and no more than that.

JRPGs only got good with the advent of the 6th gen.

>>2598602
people don't like lunar for the shitty gameplay, they like it for the story and characters. it's got a lot of heart

>>2601616
Terra, because she's the "main character" and her transform is pretty awesome for certain points of the game, namely Airforce.

Celes, because she's also a "main character" and I like her story arc the best. Runic is very good against a handful of bosses, and she makes a pretty decent mage.

Sabin, because he's the best character AND super powerful.

Last slot is usually Edgar or Locke. Edgar drops off at the end of the game pretty hard, but I like him. And mug is pretty fun.

>>2601617
Which ones from 6th stand out to you?

>>2601627
He's got terrible opinions. The sort of awful action combat that got popular at that time, combined with ever increasing cutscenes basically killed the genre.

The best are La Pucelle Tactics and the Growlanser games, though. Growlanser IV is pretty awesome.

>>2601624
Lunar has great gameplay. Positioning and enemy status attacks matter a great deal. Battles are rarely mindless.

>>2601624
I like it for the gameplay. Moving around the battlefield adds some fun to the combat and the game is balanced really well. The first time through on almost every boss my party had just run out of magic and was getting strained for items when it died. The final fight with Zophar came down to my whole party dead except Hiro, no healing items left and won the fight when he would have died from one more strong attack. Just about perfect in my books.

I do like the characters and story too though. Love the story.

>>2601634
>Growlanser
Ohh fuck, I bought those hoping for good things and WOW did I hate them. I had a decent time with La Pucelle, but it had gotten old long before the game was over.

I actually really like some of the earlier rpgs, FFII is a special favorite, but I know not everyone agrees. And III and V are up there too.

>>2601634
>Lunar has great gameplay. Positioning and enemy status attacks matter a great deal. Battles are rarely mindless.
Only someone with a low IQ would think this. Just admit you were too stupid to figure out Lunar's combat and this think it's "rarely mindless".

>>2601625
Yes, mug is a lot of fun. Celes is always a great choice. I always felt if I had either Locke or her in my party that I should have the other as well.

>>2601647
>People who don't completely agree with me are stupid

Nice trolling. :)

>>2601643
Did you give IV a chance? It doesn't look great at first, and the main character looks like a ripoff Squall. But the gameplay is really solid, the music is cool, and it actually has a great sort of ambient feel to it.

Wish the localized version wasn't on the PSP, though. I hate portables and portable gaming.

>>2601647
I'm the OP and even I think this comment is idiotic..
nice troll I guess though, it will probably get some biters...

>>2601654
I honestly don't remember. Did IV come in the PS2 collection? I tried each of them, but only very briefly, maybe an hour or two at most each. I don't even really remember what I didn't like about the games just that they turned me off and I never went back.

But I do have to admit I'm crazy picky about games, unless I kind of fall in love with one I usually drop it pretty quickly.

>>2601663
No, it was only localized a few years ago on the PSP. I haven't actually finished it, because I have trouble playing portable games, but I got a good 15 hours in and was really enjoying myself. Unfortunately, I have an OG PSP that doesn't have TV-out, or I likely would have finished it by now.

>>2601634
> The sort of awful action combat that got popular at that time
I think that action oriented combat is a nice change of pace and helps break the tedium of just choosing commands over and over

>The best are La Pucelle Tactics and the Growlanser games, though. Growlanser IV is pretty awesome.
but those are SRPGs, not straight up JRPGs though, I do agree that the guy has bad tastes though.

>>2601670
Interesting, perhaps I'll borrow it from the internet some time and give it a try. I do remember liking the idea of it. And PSP would mean no Working Designs involvement, right? That's a plus for me. I have a serious hate on for Vic Ireland's translations.

>>2601674
>but those are SRPGs, not straight up JRPGs though

When it really comes down to it, I don't think it matters. A standard JRPG is just a SRPG with shallower combat. Take a Western example. What is the difference between an SSI goldbox RPG and X-com? Just that the goldbox games have shallower gameplay. I lump them all together when talking about the genre.

>>2601675
not the guy you are responding to, but I never got why people worship working designs, they rarely stick to the source materiel and their translations are filled with pointless juvinile humor.

>>2601679
>A standard JRPG is just a SRPG with shallower combat.
ok, you are just trolling at this point.

>>2601675
No harm in the emulation route. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

>>2601682
Because without Working Designs, there is zero percent chance we would have gotten any of the games they localized.

>>2601674
I can get down with Action RPGs, they're pretty great.

>>2601679
SRPGs are about long, set battles where as in standard RPGs it's more about the dungeon being the level and managing your resources over the course of it to have enough left over for the boss at the end. I think they both can be great when done well and bad when done badly.

Unfortunately these days Etrian Odyssey has spoiled me a bit on turn based RPGs. Everything else feels so simple and easy now.

>>2601683
Clearly. Do you even think before you post?

>>2601684
so that means that they should get praise handed onto them even today when there are much better translations being made and jap games are more likely to be sent over here? I don't fucking think so. It's like if you were to praise balogna or hot dogs for bringing german cuisine to america.

>>2601682
This >>2601684
I actually hate a lot about Working Designs. Their translations were frequently terrible (clinton and austin powers jokes in a fantasy game? really?) and they were awful for fucking with gameplay.

What they did to Lunar wasn't terrible, but Victor saw fit to "rebalance" Silhouette Mirage. That's right, he thought he could balance a game better than fucking Treasure. The result is that what's a fast paced action game in Japan is a grindy fuck fest over here.

However all that said, without them we probably would never have got a single one of the games they brought over. Some double edged sword.

>>2601691
Why shouldn't they? If they hadn't been around, we would not have localized Lunar games. It isn't like they are around right now, today, making 90s tier localizations. People like them for what they did at the time, at the standards of the time.

:^)

>>2601713
Ohh ho ho! There's one very vocal anon who's going to get upset over that.

>>2601695
>What they did to Lunar wasn't terrible

Lunar 1 maybe, but changing Lunar 2's save system so that it takes away magic experience every time you save is one of the worst decisions in localization I've ever seen in a game. I don't even savescum, but that's such a fucking stupid design change.

>>2601695
Isnt there an exile game on TG-16 that became stupid hard and almost unbeatable in the working designs version? Where you have to do some odd stuff like get hit and invincible recovery time your way through enemies because you have no chance fighting legit anymore.

>>2598602
>drool over it
I haven't seen shit about this

more like earthbound.

>>2601721
It was a stupid change, but ultimately didn't impact much. You still get plenty of magic xp and grinding is never necessary in the game. You'd have to be saving constantly for it to impact much. It's still an awful decision, but didn't ruin the game like SM.

>>2601725
I was never into TG16 much, so I don't remember but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

>>2601731
Here is actual info on that exile thing

As Vic explained on NeoGAF: "On Exile 2 it was an issue of limited number of modifications because we weren't doing the game reprogramming, Telenet was. It was a small number of tries. And on the second-to last time, we had it *almost* right, so we added like +1 to the monsters, but it was like that scene with the fat guy in Meaning of Life where the waiter gives him that one wafer and he explodes. That +1 exceeded some limit internally and made the monsters exponentially harder rather than incrementally. Since it was our last "fix" and we had production discs, I thought we were screwed and had made an unwinnable game. Fortunately, with some time and special strategies, we found out you could finish it. We made one of the hardest games ever - by accident."

Vic also gave some tips: "The biggest one is not to try to assault the worst monsters. Just let them hit you in the back, which will throw you backwards (which is really forward since your back is turned). It's an easy way to clear impossible rooms with those dragons that shoot lightning."

>>2601763
lol, yup that sounds like some typical Vic Ireland retardation to me. I did such a happy jig when they closed their doors.

>>2598602
It's praised because it's easy. It's the rule of JRPGs. I can't remember a single JRPG that was easy and still badly received.

>>2601980
What a profound thought. Except that all JRPGs are easy.

>>2601725
Yes, Exile II.
At the time WorkingDesigns had no in house programmers, so they were paying the jp company that made it to insert their edits. They only had so many edits and at the end the JP guys edited the enemy level accidentally and when it was caught by WD it was far too late to fix/would have cost them a lot of money because by contract they had no more edits left.

>>2601770
How is that retardation?
He just explained why it happened...
Don't you have a to go sulk in because WD added some fart joke or something to your precious jprg?

>>2601983
>all JRPGs are easy
7th Saga disagrees

>>2601993
The problem came because he believed that Japanese games needed to have their gameplay modified to be acceptable for a north american audience. At least in this case he wasn't doing the tweaking in house, he was having the original developer do it, but still his meddling seriously messed up the game in the end. Had he not tried to fuck with the difficulty, we just would have had the Japanese version.

Like I said, I don't have personal experience with that game, but altering gameplay was one of the things Working Designs was infamous for. In the other example I gave, Silhouette Mirage he really did ruin the game with the changes he made.

That's my main issue with them. They meddled with almost every game they ported and the changes were almost always for the worse. Though I will grant, occasionally good. He added an extra music track for the final dungeon in the epilogue (the game originally just had normal dungeon music for it) and that track is both really solid and fits with the overall musical tone of the game. In general though, their changes were usually for the worse.

And yes, putting fart jokes and references to American culture in an rpg with an otherwise quite cool fantasy setting was pretty bad. It wasn't enough to harm my overall enjoyment (Lunar 2 is still in my top 5 RPGs of all time) but hot damn was it a stupid inclusion.

>>2601983
It's not retro, but go play through any Etrian Odyssey and come back and say that.

>>2601687
Once you've played rogue-likes, all RPGs feel simple and easy. That includes EO.

>>2602026
>He added an extra music track for the final dungeon in the epilogue of Lunar Eternal Blue...
left out the game for some reason.

>>2601983
>Except that all JRPGs are easy.
Only someone who played babby tier JRPGs would say that.

>>2602032
Roguelikes are one of my favorite genres, rogue was my favorite game as a kid. It's very different because EO isn't randomized and randomization is one of the things that adds significantly to the difficulty of roguelikes.

But even still, the EO games are pretty balls to the wall hard, and not just in a grinding sense. They give you access to a boatload of classes and abilities and then throw horrid shit at you. It's great. Have you actually played any of them?

Also, Etrian Mystery Dungeon is actually pretty good. The one truly good roguelike Chunsoft has made since the original Shiren.

>>2602038
>muh matador

Take your ridiculous elitism back to /v/.

>>2602049
>Matador
>Hard
>doesn't even get the reference in the post

Confirmed for babby tier shitposter.
If I wanted to mention something from SMT I'd pick Satan, and even then it's mostly a RNG lottery rather than a hard opponent.

>>2602041
>Have you actually played any of them?

Yes, the first game. I stopped playing shortly after beating Fenrir. My main issue with the game is the battles are too slow. In Dark Spire, another of Atlus' game of the same genre, the problem is even worse. You have to press a button constantly after each battle message.

>>2601698
ok ok, and I guess in a way the same thing could be said of balogna and hot dogs, it's not perfect but if they didn't come over here we wouldn't have high quality sausages in every store (it's a lame analogy, I know)

>>2601721
didn't they also like roam around usenet and early gaming forums making what were pretty much troll posts and insulting their own fanbase? I kind of wonder if they were pretty much the 90s equivilent of the worst of the people that go here

>>2600817
>>2601404
I think it absolutely holds your hand.

You go from point A to point B to point C and the game disallows exploration beyond those until far, far later in the game.
>start at spire
>goto gwyn's
>backto spire
>backto gwyn's
>goto western continent
>arrive at larpa
>excited! can explore continent
>nope
>dalton can't be entered until larpa is done with
>forest can't be entered until dalton is done with
>takkar can't be entered until forest is done with
>nothing to explore because the other areas can't be entered until you do all the other stuff first
>beat the haunted house at takkar and get to east nota
>carnival can't be entered until east nota is done with
>west nota can't be entered until carnival is done with
>zulan can't be entered until west nota is done with
And so on and so on and so on.

With L:tSS, once you get to Meribia, there's four towns to explore, full of people to talk to. But L2? Nope. One town. At a time. In the order I just gave. That's it. Nothing else. No exploration until way later. And that's sad.

I loved L2 as a kid, but as an adult, it bores me to tears.

>>2602312
I see what you mean now. It is quite linear, but many, many JRPGs are so it never bothered me that it was in the more directed vein than the free form exploration one. I like both types, and if the type it is I think Lunar 2 does a very good job of it.

>>2602107
Fenrir is the first real boss of the game, it's just getting going at that point. But I can dig that not everything appeals to everyone. I'm used to old ass dungeon crawlers so the speed of the battles never bothered me. It's made up by the fact that if you can't just do attack-attack-attack to get through random battles.

If you like roguelikes though, the Mystery Dungeon one is really good, with much of the same strategy but in a top down format and faster paced.

I regard Shiren the Wanderer as one of the best designed roguelikes of all time. But after that, Chunsoft seemed to totally forget what made it great and the chocobo/torneko/pokemon mystery dungeon games they made were just awful because they're so easy that it ruins the rougelike format. Etrian is the first one that's good again.

>>2603819
You misunderstand: I don't mind linearity. I like JRPGs and fuck knows they're as linear as rides at Disney Land.
I mean exploration.

Even L1 had much of that same problem because there are near literally zero things to do outside of progressing the story, but it, at least, allowed for exploration of areas that don't progress the story yet, so you can, say, go all the way to Lann and talk to the townspeople to see what they have to say then return when the story progresses to that point and see that what they say changes. And this continues throughout the game. As major events in the story change, things said by townspeople throughout the game world will change, as well.
In L2, however, what's said seldom ever changes. The people in Larpa will say the same thing when you leave it as they will if you decide to return later in the game while the people of such an unimportant town as Saith in L1 will change what they have to say four times over throughout the game (first arrive, return with Ghaleon, after Quark and after becoming Dragonmaster). Even the lighthouse guy and the hag with the water staff changes script at several different points in the game.

You know what I've always wanted be released? A SNES/MD/SCD-tier RPG with constantly changing townspeople scripts depending on what's going on in the story using the storage power of a 32-bit game IE being able to store several hundred megs of in-game dialogue, item and spell inventories and more and make a long, interesting RPG.
But everyone just wants either rehashes of classics or movies with the occasional point where the A button has to be pressed to do something.
It's one of the reasons I like Alundra, actually. That's a long-as-fuck game.

>>2603937
I guess we just have different feelings on it. Though I will agree that more dialogue would have been a nice addition. Most people say different stuff in the epilogue though don't they? I have to be honest, it's been years since I played it last.

Anyways, I find in general that even open worldish RPGs also feel kind of rail roady. Maybe it's my compulsion to always explore every area and do every side quest as soon as they pop up, but it just feels like a different kind of linearity.

I do really dig your idea of an RPG with changing scenarios. Are you also the guy who's into roguelikes?

I attempted making a game vaguely like that way back when. The idea was that it's an exploration rpg where you play a shop keeper in a small town somewhere, and you head out to explore dungeons and ruins looking for interesting loot to bring back and sell in your store. The dungeons were going to be rogue inspired with random layouts, items etc.

I was passionate about it back just after having played Grandia which I found colossally disappointing and I wanted to make something closer to the game I thought it should have been. But, I suck at programming and got bored of the project long before it came together.

>>2603924
>I'm used to old ass dungeon crawlers so the speed of the battles never bothered me.

The oId dungeon crawler series like Wizardry, Dungeon Master, Might & Magic, and EotB had much faster battles than EO.

>I regard Shiren the Wanderer as one of the best designed roguelikes of all time.

It's a good beginner rogue-like. Although its mechanics are kind of simplistic compared to other rogue-likes, it excels at graphics, music, and sound, something that most western rogue-likes lacked. Survival is also easier because of the radar, long range of sight, and items/spells that help you get out of trouble instantly.

>>2604520
I suppose you're right. Even still, the length of battles in EO doesn't bother me at all. Partially because the game aside from that is so fantastic in my eyes. Different strokes I guess, and that's cool.

I would say Shiren is more of a minimalist roguelike than a beginner one, but I could certainly see that. It does have some things like being able to leave items along the way and build up weapons over several plays if you want. But taken straight where you just try to dive through the game with what you find on your way is still a ton of fun for me.

I should note though, that it was really Rogue that I was a massive fan of. I like ADOM, Nethack and the like, but have always gravitated towards more minimalist ones. My all time favorite was originally made for GBA of all things.

/vr/ rides this series' dick HARDER than any other.
It's confusing, cause even back in the 90's, I thought these games played like slow crap.

>>2604330
>I attempted making a game vaguely like that way back when. The idea was that it's an exploration rpg where you play a shop keeper in a small town somewhere, and you head out to explore dungeons and ruins looking for interesting loot to bring back and sell in your store. The dungeons were going to be rogue inspired with random layouts, items etc.
There's a non-/vr/ game on a non-/vr/ console that's exactly this, believe it or not. I downloaded the rom to load onto my DS flashcart and tried it out. Seemed like a cool idea, but had piss-poor execution.

>I do really dig your idea of an RPG with changing scenarios.
Thanks. I like you, too.
>Are you also the guy who's into roguelikes?
I am not.

> But, I suck at programming and got bored of the project long before it came together.
Pity.

A friend of mine and I tried to make a SRPG similar to Dark Wizard but with a class change system more like Ogre Battle and a level-up system more like FFII or the Sa•Ga games. Too ambitious of a project for two fledgling programmers still at school. I was fourteen years old at the time and he was sixteen.

>Anyways, I find in general that even open worldish RPGs also feel kind of rail roady.
See, I don't necessarily want an open world RPG, either. I just want one with lots and lots and lots to see and do to learn about the game world and its history beyond just progressing the story. You know what my favourite parts in L1 were? The libraries in Vane and Damon's Spire and the minor bits of dialogue with NPC nobodies. The world building in those books was very, very interesting. I liked it a lot, the short bits about other dragonmasters before Dyne. And my favourite NPC nobody dialogues were the guy who says his fire magic sucks because the fire spirit dislikes him (which we were working into that SRPG I mentioned earlier) and the guy who asks if the party had ever heard of machines.
>they move without spirits or a soul or magic!
>doesn't that sound EVIL?

It's a really good game, and the reason some people like it so much is because for the time it was amazing, maybe not the PS1 version, but for 1993, Lunar 1 on Sega CD was amazing. I personally think the sprite-based cutscenes are more appealing than the more generic anime FMVs from PS1/Saturn remake.

And in any case, it's not a "/vr/ overrated game", people liked and praised Lunar since it came out.

>>2604562
BoF is one of the only series I can think of that got significantly better with each installment. 1 is pretty rough and 2 suffered from an awful localization on the SNES but it's all uphill from there.

>>2604564
Basically, I like things where the footnotes are more interesting than the story because the stories are often clichéd.
Probably why I fucking adored Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell. Susanna Clark had this habit of have two sentences of story on a page followed by a line break and the rest of the page being filled with footnotes explaining the significance of what was mentioned in those two sentences of story in relation to the in-book history of England, English magic and the John Uskglass.

>>2604579
I also prefer the sprite cutscenes in the original sega cd versions. They are better because they dont have any compression artifacts.
The ps1 games suffer from heavy jpeg compressed artifacts.

>>2604564
I know the game you're talking about, it interested me until a friend tried it and now I have no desire to experience it. Ahh well.

It's a shame neither of us were better programmers, that game of your friend's sounds quite good too.

I must say that sad as it is, one of the things this thread has nearly convinced me of is that I should keep the Lunars in my memory, rather than replay them. Not that I have the time anyways.

Lunar 1 I enjoyed, but Eternal Blue just hit some crazy sweet spot for me. I was obsessed with it for too long.

Anyways, I will leave this on a suggestion to check out some roguelikes. They might be right up your alley.

>>2604589
The jpeg compression is one of the least bad things about them. They cut music tracks and animations and made some really weird changes.

On the Sega CD version, the Illusion Woods you go through looks like a forest with doorways that are hidden in tree trunks and fade in an out by magic.

In the remake it basically looks like a big hunk of flat ground with bushes and some of the bushes can be passed through (or something similar, I tried to mind wipe it) It's very surreal how crappy those remakes are.

>>2604581

I disagree, I played 3 and 4 back in 2011/2012 and thought both were still hot shit. They got charm and a nice art style, but those games are just bad. Gameplay is slow and bland, the puzzles in dungeons just served to slog a already slow game down even more, and none of the characters stood out at all in maybe 12 hours of play of each title before just straight giving up.

>>2604596
Wow, not him but I fucking love BoF IV, much more than any others in the series. The build up is slow, but the payoff was so great.

>>2604596
To be fair, BoF3 starts out with a too long prologue involving child Ryu and Nina. It's pretty great after that. 4 is pretty amazing from the get go, and keeps getting better and better, with a fantastic final act; I can't imagine not enjoying it by the 10 hour mark. Whatever floats (or sinks) your boat.

>>2604619
Breath of Fire IV was one of the last JRPGs I played. I'd been huge into them in the 8 and 16 bit days, but the PSX era had so many that I pretty much burnt out on the genre.

For my tastes, FFIX had been almost perfect, and something about that killed a lot of RPGs I tried afterward. They all just felt flat for one reason or another.

BoF IV was the only one after that which kept my attention. The start was kind of slow, but after the first Fou-Lu section it just keeps getting better and better.

Ershin is so damn fantastic.

>>2598602
Pic very related. The platforming is the worst I've ever seen bar none.

>>2606163
You know why it's a good game, though? Because it's good /despite/ it's awful fucking platforming.
Were it not for the shitty-as-fuck platforming, it would be the most perfect game ever made, ever, bar none.

>>2606178
Not him, but I didn't really care for Alundra much at all even ignoring the platforming. I am curious to see the PAL release was done by Psygnosis as opposed to Working Designs. I wonder how much the versions differ.

>>2606116
Try Legend of the Heroes.

>>2602030
can confirm, the series is amazing but very difficult

>>2606185
Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
You likely enjoy quite a number of things I don't. And that's okay.

>>2606185
As far as I know the only differences was that the difficulty was rebalanced in the US release and the EU release wasn't further altered.

Rebalanced as in "Mook HP was boosted" and "Boss HP was nerfed and damage was boosted", which was very welcome. The bosses in the original were a chore that posed little threat.

>>2606223
Totally agree! I played it a bit and then never went back. But I've seen how many people did really like it, and I'm happy it has it's fans. I often seem to have weird taste.

>>2599638
>LoD
I actually like it, but I completely agree. It's got some interesting ideas but it's ultimately very generic outside of that. Plus that stardust sidequest will make anyone rage.

For some that was kind of the charm for the time though, because most of them were in an atypical setting while LoD stuck to it's roots.

>>2606240
>play a few minutes, then put it down
I'd done that with a number of games (and television programmes and films), actually, many of which are considered classic and/or fantastic, so I understand.

Some things that others consider fantastic that I couldn't stand to even get halfway in are::
Wild Arms 2.
The Actraiser series.
Breath of Fire 2&3.
Vectorman 1&2.
And /especially/ all Zelda games from OoT onward along with several others.

Preparing for a flame war in three... two... one...

>>2606303
I actually generally agree with those as well. Actraiser I liked, but I feel similarly about BoFs 2 and 3 (I love IV though ironically), Vectorman looks great but kinda isn't. The only Zelda I really, really liked was Wind Waker.

>>2606264
One of the strongest points of that game is that it was very skill-based. The amount of random factors was minimal, and when they were in play, they were a big deal.

It wont let you grind your way through it either. Enemies give fuck-all XP and most of your power is from leveling additions which comes naturally anyway. Biggest flaw of that game I'd say is new characters having straight 0s on all their additions. It pretty much means you stick with Rose and whoever for the entire game.

I do agree with the Stardust sidequest though, that was total bullshit: http://legendofdragoon.wikia.com/wiki/Stardust

>>2598602
Is this game all that different from the Sega CD version? I beat it on Sega CD and thought it was okay. Not amazing but adequate.

>>2606629
The remake is a total overhaul and is closer to Lunar 2 in its gameplay.

>>2606629
The remake of Lunar 1 is quite different. The story is more fleshed out, the bosses (and encounters) are harder but not random, the score is completely different, and there are some different zones (some parts are cut out entirely).

If you already played Lunar 2 on Sega CD, there's no reason to play the remake of that, its entirely worse. But the remake of Lunar 1 is almost a new game entirely, and not quite so much baby's first RPG.