/vr/ - Retro Games

>If the Super NES was more powerful than the Sega Genesis
Protip: it's not, dig deeper into the hardware from both consoles.

That being said, Natsume did fucking magic with the SNES and put Capcom to shame, games like Wild Guns, Ninja Warriors Again and Gundam Wing Endless Duel look and play like arcade games.

While I like both games I never could get into final fight like I did streets of rage. Anyone care to give their opinion on why they like final fight more?

>>2584924
I like the arcade more because it's frenetic as fuck, i really like the stage and enemy design, full of molotovs, barrels, assholes with knives and up to 10 enemies on screen.

The SNES Final Fight games are a waste of time, none of them are as good as the arcade.

>>2584919
>Protip: it's not, dig deeper into the hardware from both consoles.
Care to elaborate?

>>2584924
When people talk about Final Fight being superior, they usually mean the arcade original. All the console ports (barring the version in Capcom Classics Collection) were compromised in some form or another).

there are lots of little details, such as whether the publisher agreed to pay for fast rom or not. there are two rom types on the snes, slow and fast, the fast ones almost double the performance
>>2584927
final fight 3 is alright.

>>2584929
>Care to elaborate?
SNES display many more colors on screen, but the Genesis was able for more intensive action games, it was more flexible when handling many sprites on screen with few slowdowns. Also, the Genesis has a resolution of 320x224 as showed in the OP, SNES is 256x224 max, and many games have a black border to improve performance like pic related.

>>2584937
>but the Genesis was able for more intensive action games, it was more flexible when handling many sprites on screen with few slowdowns.
Yeah, but what made it better for action games. Was it just the faster CPU or is there something else involved in the hardware structure?

>>2584938
something about faster DMA access. I have no idea what it means either.

>>2584939
essentially blast processing was wubbadubba faster DMA optimizations and shit

http://trixter.oldskool.org/2008/12/05/blast-processing-101/

>>2584938
Mainly the CPU, devs were more familiarized with the motorola 68000, which was standard in arcade games and computers like the Sharp X68K. The SNES CPU was rather obscure in comparison, and also worse.

arcade ports are easy to ignore since these days we have mame and whatnot but I hated when the devs insisted on making the inappropriate genre in the completely wrong system
pic related is battle zeque den. it could have been great on a pc engine or sega genesis, but the assholes just had to make it on the snes, with only two enemies on screen and no 2 player mode. What's even the point then?

>>2584953
A better console can't save them from their incompetence, just play this anon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECw67eR2mRw

>>2584953
>>2584961
>incompetence
More likely internal disarray. The developer, Arsys Soft, had run aground trying to make Star Cruiser 2 (sequel to a innovative, graphically advanced sci-fi adventure), and following Battle Zeque Den they merged into SCEJ to work on PlayStation games (the leader, Kotori Yoshimura, co-designed Omega Boost): https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/サイバーヘッド_(ゲームメーカー)

I don't know for sure why they made another Super Famicom game after porting Prince of Persia to it—maybe they wanted to justify learning assembly code different from the 68000 and Z80 architectures they started with. The studio was run by Tecno Soft alumni used to porting games across platforms to capture their market. What's odd is that, if they learned 6502 assembly for PoP, a PC Engine version of that and/or Battle Zeque Den would have been feasible, but it didn't happen. There's still the possibility that Masaya ported Star Cruiser to the Mega Drive in their stead. So maybe Arsys thought SFC ports would sell best? There was a long gap between the X68k and Mega Drive releases of Star Cruiser and the PC-98/FM Towns sequel, funding came mostly from ports and assistance on projects. Something must have shifted internally for them to make a brawler for the SFC.

>>2584941
>The “bit-ness” of any CPU is defined by the size of its internal registers.
According to his logic anything with AVX is a 128-bit CPU. Knights Landing is 512-bit.

>>2584961
I think it's the varying heights that ate away cpu time. But yeah I already knew about ninja warriors again, it's pretty great. The sega cd version is also nice.

>>2584961
Ninja Warriors isn't particularly good either.

>>2585195
It's one of the best beat 'em ups on the console, quite unconventional too.

>>2585498
It's very competent, I don't know how they did it but the sprite limitations don't feel like an issue at all.

>>2584961
>>2585195
My only complaint about Ninja Warriors Again is that big guy can't jump.

>>2585498
>no 2 players mode
>can only move left or right
It looks good but it isn't anything special.

It depends on the developer.

SoR was a 1st party Sega game, FF was a port by Capcom. The best Capcom games on SNES were the original titles (megaman X, SGnG, Demon's Crest, etc), the ports were just that, ports. Some were better than others.


The SNES isn't more "powerful" than the Genesis, both have their pros and cons, but both are probably the 2 greatest consoles ever made. It was the best vidya generation.

>>2585509
That's precisely what makes it special.

>>2585518
Final Fight SNES was a rushed launch title, the SNES might have had weaknesses but it could do better than that

>>2585503
Because the enemies actually mean shit, also sprites are large and there is a single plane.

>>2585509
>looks
At least play it. Also, 2 players would be a clusterfuck due to the single-plane and the size of sprites, the game is well designed for 1 player.

>>2585586
Judging from the sequels, they can't du much better than just adding co-op.

>>2585586
yeah, things that definitely takes its toll on development and is the reason why it's impossible to objectively measure a system performance.

>>2585603
>At least play it
Already completed it a couple of times.

>>2585623
Misreaded you then. Anyway, i still can think of many great single-plane beat 'em ups Ninja Warriors Again, let alone a better SNES beat 'em ups, King of Dragons is up there but that's an arcade port.

>>2585623
Misreaded you then. Anyway, i can't think of many good single-plane beat 'em ups aside from Ninja Warriors Again, let alone a better SNES beat 'em up, King of Dragons is up there but that's an arcade port.

The Genesis had a slightly faster CPU than the SNES, and also one that was much better understood by programmers at the time. Now, the clockspeed of the Genesis' Motorola 68k is nearly twice that of the 5A22 in the SNES, a 65816 variant, but the 65816 actually had a higher IPC than the 68k, making the two CPUs nearly neck and neck at their respective clockspeeds. The Genesis CPU still had that slight edge however, and combined with programmers being more familiar with it, that lead to the Genesis being able to handle more action-heavy games.

>>2585518
>SoR was a 1st party Sega game
The original was done in-house by one of Sega's CS division, but 2 and 3 were outsourced to Ancient, who also did Beyond Oasis. They really knew how to push the Genesis to the limits.

>>2585586
But even the later Final Fight games on the SNES still had that five characters limit. Hell, Final Fight 2 actually felt slower than the first.

>>2585724

>who also did Beyond Oasis

Didn't knew it, so it explains BO's sounds for me.

>>2585697
The only Snes game that impressed me for its speed is Sparkster.

>>2584848
>If the Super NES was more powerful than the Sega Genesis

It is not. It just has more modern video and audio capabilities. So it can display more colours and more PCM channels, but it's just not as fast.

Plus, the Genesis was fast enough that you could REALLY push the video hardware into doing absurd things. On the SNES, you just didn't have the horsepower for that, but that was okay, since the machine was designed with on-cart accelerators in mind (the Megadrive was not, and it's the reason why the Sega CD and 32x were overcomplicated yet underpowered).

>>2585750
Contra III was pretty fast. Not surprisingly the lead programmers later did Gunstar Heroes.

>>2584848
>The only technical advantage I see on the Genesis is the faster CPU

Let me put it this way. Which PC would be better? A PC with a dual core Pentium coupled with a GTX 980, or a PC with a quad core i5 coupled with a GTX 760?

>>2584953
>it could have been great on a pc engine or sega genesis, but the assholes just had to make it on the snes, with only two enemies on screen and no 2 player mode. What's even the point then?

Super Famicom ruled in Japan, and thus Japanese developers were pretty much forced to work on Nintendo consoles, at least until Sony came around. Not that Sony is particularly any better than Nintendo, as many modern titles like FF15 or KH3 are locked to be on the PS4 (and Xbox) only because Sony rules supreme in Japan. They would be much better on PC where you could dump more power for the game, but they likely won't because Square is very loyal to Sony.

>>2584848

The big thing the SNES had going for it was more color. A lot of the resolution specs are misleading because from what I understand the SNES had to be in a certain mode to utilize it's upper resolution limit.

Understand that the amount of sprites and their behaviours is basically going to be determined strictly by raw processing power. Think of it like large super-computers that do complex simulations of billions and billions of particles interacting with one another, the most important spec in these kinds of simulations is the processing power that calculates the interactions between all of the different particles. In a situation like this, we obviously don't care at all about how many colors the simulation can produce, and the quality and speed at which we can progress through iterations isn't improved if we give the simulation a fancy colorful display.

>>2585024
What a correct fact you have stated!
Good Job!

>>2587106
that analogy doesn't work at all, your comparing apples to a pile of bricks

SEGA DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T

>>2587198
isn't that what comparing the SNES and Genesis is?

you'll never be able to say one is definitely better

how many more colors on screen is better than x amount of processing power? how many sound samples are better than developers being familiar with the hardware?

>>2585697
Also, while the 65816 had higher IPC the instruction set favoured load/modify/store and as such you had to use a lot more memory operations than the 68k with its larger register set.

Where Sega messed up was focusing too much on technology and not enough on making simple, enjoyable games. Nintendo had Mario and LoZ franchises, comfy games that were unique from each other. Instead of focusing on building game franchises that would last and that people would enjoy, they focused on add ons and CD powered tech. Sega had many games that hardcore gamers would enjoy, but they weren't as competitive with Nintendo in appealing to casual gamers, where most of the money comes from.

>>2587580
Yeah, but today graphics aren't rendered by the CPU so your point still falls kinda flat.

>>2584848
Why were the snes ninja turtle beat em up games better on the snes? It just depends on the game I guess.

You can't argue that SNES is more powerful, horsepower-wise, than Genesis.

SNES had better graphics and a very specific sound system better suited to certain types of sounds and music than the Genesis (but the Genesis could do certain music better than the SNES).

The cool thing is that both consoles were fucking awesome and exclusive games for both played to the strengths of both. Cross-platform games that were basically identical depended on what they focused on. Final Fight and most sports games did better on Genesis, for example.

tl;dr it's pointless to do the Sega vs Nintendo argument because they both won. Unlike today's console shitfest where they're all basically garbage.

>>2588360
It isn't. It is more "original" because its a port of an original arcade game, whereas the Genesis game is a sort of remix mode of levels from previous Turtles games. It isn't a "better" game, though.

It's funny how a hardware 2 years older created a discussion about muh specs which will never end. Seriously, how could MD keep up so bravely with that technological delay? Competent devs? Some studio created games for both consoles? I mean different titles, not ports

>>2588390
Konami made different games for SNES and Genesis. That's why they are the best retro developer and most of their games are awesome.

>>2588371

Turtles in Time is so much fucking better than Hyperstone Heist. Shitty ass Genesis can't eve. Handle the Neon Night Riders level.

>>2584943
>The SNES CPU was rather obscure in comparison, and also worse.

Eh? It was just a tarted-up 6502 which every game developer in the 80s-early 90s knew like the back of their hand.

>>2587440
Yeah... losing the console war and having to work for the competition.

>>2588341
>but they weren't as competitive with Nintendo in appealing to casual gamers

Sega had a few franchises that were catered to casual gamers during the mega-drive/genesis days but abandoned them after Saturn came out.

Also, for better or worse...sonicthehedgehog.png

>>2588408
This post is embarrassing.

This thread is fucking foul with Sega nostalgics. The better console was the SNES and no bleating of numbers really changes that. Sega did some really deceptive marketing to get where it was, which I guess made them the influential Nazis of that console generation, whilst Nintendo was the Allies since Nintendo actually cares about games.

Case in point, who's around still making good games AND consoles for their customers today. Whilst Sega has always been about bleeding unsuspecting customers of their money. I don't know why you would ever look back fondly on Sega after how they nearly imperiled videogames with how awfully short, perhaps even mobile game short, their titles always were.

>>2588341
What a pile of shit you just said, especially
>comfy
lol

>>2588341
>>2588629
>>>/v/
>>>/youtube/
>>>/reddit/
>>>/AVGN/

>>2588408
They are both crappy beat 'em ups for clueless kids anyway.

>>2588629

>fucking 40-min games, arcade games must be story focused with at least 100 hours like my favourite rpgs!

hah

>>2584848
BLAST PROCESSING

>>2588629
10/10 gave me a good old chuckle

>>2588629

>>2588629
>Sega didn't care about making a good product, their only care was the bottom line
I just realized Sega was the XBOX of its time.

>>2588895
nice samefagging 4/10

>>2588902
You are bad at guessing.

>>2585586
the king of dragons and knights of the round were done much better, and they were released years after their originals

>>2588921
Not worse than your shitposting.

>>2588408
Handle the better music and decaying and sustaining notes SNES

>>2588938

I'll never forget what an anon said about the duck noises samples used in Turtles in Time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO5TaLbxtys

I like it though

>>2588895
Setting aside that Xbox has been a net money loser for Microsoft, the original Xbox had some Sega DNA in it. They advised Microsoft on controller design, which is why they share their ABXY button layout, analog triggers, memory card positions, and immense size with the Dreamcast. Also the black/white buttons on the original controller make the button layout into a slightly skewed Sega six-button setup.

>>2585536
it makes it a shinier version of Altered Beast

>>2588341
Sega were already fighting an uphill battle since Nintendo jewed everyone into working for them. The genesis should get a lot of credit for basically claiming half the market at the time.

Casuals gonna casual though. Other than Mario and Zelda there werent really any stand out franchises. At least Sega released multiple games in a series on the genesis like Streets of Rage, Shinobi, Golden Axe, Sonic etc

>>2589045
>Nintendo jewed everyone into working for them

I always found this idea that nintendo were evil rather exaggerated.
The NES had mad 3rd party support because the thing sold like hotcakes, and still a lot of the NES games got ports on other systems.

>nintendo is only mario and zelda

come on man, I love Sega, but don't post if you're just gonna shitpost for no reason.

Genesis/MD games do run way better than SNES games in general I find

most games have very little slowdown and you can have super fast and smooth scrolling in games like Ecco or Sonic

also its weird how Genesis games actually fair better on modern displays than SNES games do

Beyond Oasis looks as good or even better than any SNES game if you ask me

>>2584848

It's probably just me, but many megadrive games feel awkward because of some light choppiness. I've no idea if I'm the only one experiencing this, but the framerate sometimes feels off.

>>2589058
im giving you my opinion. I guess I forgot about FFVII and all the rpgs, they had that going for them.
But their other franchises i was never a fan of. Metroid, Fzero, uhh Kirby? What else is there thats a snes franchise?

Nintendo's licensing practices that restricted third-party developers from creating games for any system other than the NES, so yeah they had a huge groundwork set up in the US and Japan. Which is why europeans had things like the master system and gaming computers like the Amiga and Commodore.

Not to mention Nintendo controlled a lot of distributions places and threatened to pull their games if they stocked competitors.

You act like Nintendo is the cutesy do no wrong company or some shit. Not everything is black and white and theyre not evil but they were dicks too

>>2589070

>But their other franchises i was never a fan of. Metroid, Fzero, uhh Kirby? What else is there thats a snes franchise?

You just mentioned 3 that aren't Mario or Zelda.
I could also add Star Fox, Pilotwings, EarthBound.
It's completely fine if you don't like them, but yes there's more than Mario and Zelda dude.

>nintendo were mean and bad to 3rd parties, etc etc

I dunno, I keep reading that sort of thing, not so sure.

>You act like Nintendo is the cutesy do no wrong company or some shit. Not everything is black and white and theyre not evil but they were dicks too

Nah, nintendo is a company, just like sega. Both made and published great games. I wouldn't go around calling them dicks or good guys, because I didn't work with neither of them, I was always just a consumer. And I don't usually believe journos, they're full of shit most of the time.

>>2589058
>The NES had mad 3rd party support because the thing sold like hotcakes, and still a lot of the NES games got ports on other systems.

Nintendo had a specific part in their contract, that whoever is making games for their console, must not release games for competing consoles.

That alone is some serious antitrust shit right there. Companies only got around it by running daughter-companies that released the games on other systems, instead of the parent company.

>>2589064
Give some examples, at least the OP picture runs better than any SNES beat 'em up, i don't recall any slowdown.

>>2589110

I don't think it's a slowdown, it's the whole game that feels a bit choppy.

The only example I can think of right now is Gunstar Heroes. I know I've been put off by the pacing of several megadrive games...

>>2589070
>What else is there thats a snes franchise?
Fire Emblem, the Wars series, F-Zero, Punch-Out!!

>>2589089
>Nintendo had a specific part in their contract, that whoever is making games for their console, must not release games for competing consoles.
Now you're just making shit up.

>>2589127
literally nobody i knew in the US had those games except for F-Zero and Punch out for the NES

>>2589146
>I haven't heard of them so they don't count!
Now you're just grasping at straws. Face it. Nintendo has a ton of popular franchises outside of Mario and Zelda. Star Fox, F-Zero, Pilotwings, Fire Emblem: Monshou no Nazo, and the DKC series are some of the best-selling games on the SNES. And I'm confused about your statement about Final Fantasy. Are we talking about Nintendo games only or are we also including third-party games?

>>2589070
>Nintendo's licensing practices that restricted third-party developers from creating games for any system other than the NES
>>2589089
>Nintendo had a specific part in their contract, that whoever is making games for their console, must not release games for competing consoles.
Are there any sources for this? It sounds like bullshit to me because there are a lot of companies that released games on multiple systems.

>>2589172
>Star Fox, F-Zero, Pilotwings, Fire Emblem: Monshou no Nazo, and the DKC series are some of the best-selling games on the SNES.
Also Mother 2.

javascript:quote('2588629');

Lmao, Nintendo would fit the analogy of Nazis because of their strict policies with games, region restrictions and keeping companies hostage. Sega made their consoles available anywhere they could and are the reason so many people in Europe don't care for Nintendo since they've been given the middle finger for years. They're still fucking doing it.

>>2588629

Lmao, Nintendo would fit the analogy of Nazis because of their strict policies with games, region restrictions and keeping companies hostage. Sega made their consoles available anywhere they could and are the reason so many people in Europe don't care for Nintendo since they've been given the middle finger for years, while they could play Sega and Sony consoles easily. Nintendo is still doing this shit today and people here act act if they're the saviors of gaming. Give me a fucking break.

>>2589208

I don't know if you're trolling, but Nintendo was easily dominating the 8 bits and 16 bits generation in Europe... Being bitter won't change that those consoles had much more high quality games (while the Sega ones also had some gems, don't get me wrong).

>>2589208
>Lmao, Nintendo would fit the analogy of Nazis because of their strict policies with games
I would fit the analogy of Nazis because I want to gas everyone in this thread

Can't you bastards just enjoy video games

>>2588895
>comparing Sega consoles to Xbox
never ever do that again

>>2589208
>people here act act if they're the saviors of gaming.
Unintelligent Americans who don't know the history of video games are the only ones who do this, thankfully, so they're easy to spot.

>>2584848
Faster CPU was it's only strength. It's games though couldn't be helped.

>>2589353
>muh murricans!

Got another throwaway buzzword in store?

>>2585507
Get gud.

You don't need to jump in this game, it's not fucking mario bros.

Also, the Ninja ("the big guy") is an awesomely powerful fucking character.

t. someone who can beat the game on Hard with 1 life, using any character

kamaitachi is the best.

ninja is next, and he can be just as good. but he requires a lot more skill.

Kunoichi is easily the weakest character. Only good thing about her is that she can skip certain sections

>>2589449
>It's

>>2589523
Force of habit. I'm sorry anon but its too late for me.

>>2589274
>but Nintendo was easily dominating the 8 bits
You're either 16 or American.

>>2587083
It always felt weird to me how Contra: Hard Corps feels more like a Treasure game than Contra III.

>>2589274
>Nintendo was easily dominating the 8 bits and 16 bits generation in Europe

>>2588629
>The better console was the SNES and no bleating of numbers really changes that.

>>2588341
>Where Sega messed up was focusing too much on technology and not enough on making simple, enjoyable games

Jesus Christ. Some stereotypes are true, Nintendo fanboys really are clueless teenagers who get all their information on retro games from Youtubers.

>>2589623
For the boss rush style? yeah maybe, however i think Treasure's run 'n guns and Contra 3 were better games.

>>2589628

It's not just Nintendo fanboys, Sega and PlayStation teenager fanboys also get all their info from youtubers. Are you just noticing this now?

>>2589623
I feel like they were trying to out-do Gunstar Heroes, so it feels a bit like it as a result.

>>2589635
What Youtubers are Sega or Playstation fans? They almost always seem to be clueless SNES plebs to me.

>>2589645
>What Youtubers are Sega or Playstation fans?

I actually wouldn't know, I don't watch youtubers, but you're delusional if you think the only kind of people that watch youtube shitfests are nintendo fanboys.

>>2589605

I wish I was 16, but i'm 29 and european. I don't get why you're getting so angry and defensive about the fact that Nintendo dominated the 8 bits era, though.

>>2590158
Not the quote, but amiga, master system, msx, commodore 64, pc engine, etc existed.

>>2590168

Of course they existed, and I absolutely love the pc-engine (both hu-cards and cd), but here in Europe it was still the most successfull system, sales-wise and games-wise (once again, don't get me wrong, there were plenty of awesome games on other systems, but just not as many).

>>2590176
Yeah I actually agree with you, I don't even know why I responded, I'm not the guy you originally quoted.

>>2587112
>as many modern titles like FF15 or KH3 are locked to be on the PS4 (and Xbox) only
hahaha

>>2590176

The NES was amazing and revolutionary but eved since Nintendo shot itself in the foot when it comes to the European market. I don't know a single person IRL who owned a 64 or Gamecube, obviously since it was expensive as shit to import and get the games. You have to be pretty clueless to think people here care about games like OOT, nobody fuckin played them when PS1 was so easy to get.

>>2588629

>>2588629
.

>>2590176

Where do you get your information from?
The Mega Drive easily outsold the SNES in Europe, this is well known. Are you people so desperate about the console war that you have to spread misinformation?

>>2584848
>The only technical advantage I see on the Genesis is the faster CPU (7.67MHz vs. 3.58MHz), which I guess explains a bit, but still...
The CPU was by far the most important component of consoles in that generation. Also, it's often little discussed, but the Genesis also had faster RAM than that SNES.

It's a little bit funny when people say the only thing the Genesis has over the SNES is the CPU, but the truth is that the only thing that the SNES has over the Genesis is the GPU (the sound chips are completely different technology (FM vs PCM), so not directly comparable).

The SNES 65816 CPU just wasn't very good. Sure the IPC was a little better than the 68000 in the Genesis, but it was significantly worse in every other measure (not to mention that having IPC that was a little better couldn't come close to surmounting having less than half the clock speed).

Meanwhile the Genesis GPU, the VDP, while unremarkable compared to the SNES GPU (as it was lacking in color and special features), was still a competent sprite pusher, which is exactly what you want for fighting games.

>>2590218
>>2590219
All fanboys are bad but Nintendo fanboys really are insane and rabid. The ISIS of console warriors.

>>2590219
>GuyWhoPlayedFinalFantasyIIIonEmulator.jpg

>>2590224
>8 bits era

>>2590227
b-but MODE 7!!!

>>2590254
The Genesis is strong enough to do that in software.

Not kidding - look up Panorama Cotton.

>>2590318
That game is not doing a "mode 7" effect. Nothing scales, it just substitutes larger and smaller sprites and certain thresholds. Likewise, there's no rotation effects.

>>2590331
Sprite scaling is not mode 7, it is taking a huge background and rotating it in 3d (which does involve scaling, but not sprites).

Panorama Cotton is running a scaled pseudo-3d ground - on some levels it runs TWO of them in parallel, with branching paths up and down.

And plenty of other Megadrive games did rotation, some even did scaling. Ranger X and Red Zone even run polygons.

>>2590362
How is what the game does any different than Road Rash?

>>2590362

The Road Rash devs said they couldn't get the game running at playable framerates on SNES.

The built in Mode 7 feature doesn't quite do the correct twisting and turning highway effect they wanted, and the SNES CPU was too slow to do it in software, so they abandoned the port.

>>2590176
I didn't know anyone owning a NES back then, but I definitely saw a lot of MasterSystem - both at friends' houses (those who were lucky to have a console) and at summer camps (in fact, the place I went had about 10 MasterSystem in a room, which was awe-inspiring and which we couldn't touch since "it messes with children's brains" according to the supervisor).

>>2590318
That game would have been called neckbeard pedoshit by /v/ had it come out today.

>>2590318
Panorama Cotton is my favorite Genesis game.

>>2589070
The thing that you don't realize is that a lot of the Nintendo franchises you know today were built upon the popularity of the SNES version.

Both systems had their advantages and disadvantages. I don't see the sense in arguing over which one was *better* in 2015 as they are both easily obtained for cheap or free to emulate. Personally, my SNES got a lot more play time than the Genesis, but there quite are a few gems on the Genesis that I remember fondly (PS series, Golden Axe, Streets of Rage series, Earthworm Jim, sports games).

>>2590507
>The thing that you don't realize is that a lot of the Nintendo franchises you know today were built upon the popularity of the SNES version.
There's Mario, Zelda, uhhh...

>>2590331
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNGNh8JDcQ

>>2590512
Mario is actually a bad example, since SMB3 is generally considered to be the superior game.

But you do have Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox, Kirby, F-Zero, and the DKC series that are all strong Nintendo franchises today. All those franchises came into their own on the SNES.

Not to mention that there were actually 3rd party games made for the system still. Castlevania, Final Fantasy series, Mega Man X series, and the SF2 series to name a few.

>>2584848

not everything comes down to hardware specs... this here is more about programming skills and the lack of...

>>2584848
not this argument again.
it's been 25 years, move on.

>>2590381
Road Rash does sprite scaling in software. The ground may be outrun-style scaling with heights added, but I'm not sure about that.

>>2589965
>I outright admit I have no idea what I'm talking about, but you're delusional if you think I'm wrong.

>>2588416
Better than playing third wheel to the PlayStation vs. Xbox console war while keeping themselves afloat through physical DLCs.

>>2591184
>Better than playing third wheel to the PlayStation vs. Xbox console war while keeping themselves afloat through physical DLCs.

When did they have physical DLCs released for the Gamecube?

>>2591213
I was referring to the Amiibos they're releasing now. The closest thing to Amiibos for the GameCube was the eCard reader, which never really quite took off outside Japan.

>>2591140

But seriously, do you have any proof to back up your idea that "only nintendo fans care about youtubers"? As far as I know, youtubers are really popular in general, I doubt Nintendo fans are the only ones giving them views.

You just seem to be traumatized with nintendo fans.

Just accept that all fanboys are equally bad (and yes, you are probably one fanboy too, that's why you pick only on Nintendo ones, instead of picking on all of them, IMO Sony fanboys are worse than NIntendo ones. Sega guys are chill although they get a bit mad when SNES vs Genesis discussion arise, especially sound-related, but they're still cool in my book)

>>2591235
I'm not the same person you were replying to earlier. I just thought the way you phrased the sentence was funny. I'm not huge into YouTube but I know one of the GameSack guys is a self-admitted Sega fanboy. Regardless, a lot of the more popular YouTube channels like Cinemassacre are very strongly Nintendo fanboys. Cinemassacre seems to almost make a tradition of bashing Sega and insisting the only thing it has over the SNES is a bunch of sports games.

>>2591250
>Cinemassacre seems to almost make a tradition of bashing Sega and insisting the only thing it has over the SNES is a bunch of sports games.
Rolfe's SNES vs. Genesis was biased as fuck.

>>2591235

NOW now, since when is the Sega Genesis has better sound than SNES?

No technical yadda-yadda here. Just post some music from either. I always thought it was a consensus the snes had better sounds.

>>2591268

Oh yeah, and SNES has better platformers and RPGs while the Genesis has better action games, shooters and fighting ones. You know what, the snes also has great shmups too.

>>2584929

So the Capcom Classics Collection version is on par with arcades? Because I have that, it was pretty neat.

>>2590685
>it's been 25 years, move on.

25 years of pure agony for Sega fans.

>>2591280
It's literally the CPS version running on an emulator. There's some slight performance issue, but nothing really major.

>>2591268
They're both very different. The Megadrive has an clearer/cleaner sound, but limited in its samples (mostly due to generic sound drivers being used by devs, and limited cartridge size for PCM). The SNES can load sound fonts, but its limited RAM means they're usually very compressed and muffled. It's likely you never really noticed if you only used your built-in TV speakers.

>>2591285
>After Burner Climax
>Out Run 2
>Sonic Generations
>Virtua Fighter 5
>Sega Rally 3
>Panzer Dragoon Orta
>House of the Dead 4
>Shinobi 3DS

Hardly what I'd call agony, not to mention that Yakuza, Bayonetta, and now Shenmue aren't dead.

>>2591250

Aight, but allow me to think that it's still delusional to think something like what this guy said:

>>2589645
>What Youtubers are Sega or Playstation fans? They almost always seem to be clueless SNES plebs to me.

This nigga is implying that there are no youtubers that are Sega or PS fans. You already said there is at least one that is a Sega fanboy.

>>2591295
>It's literally the CPS version running on an emulator.

Is it? Capcom ported a LOT of games properly from CPS to consoles, and then they just ported those versions to newer platforms.

For example the stuff that was on Capcom Generations.

>>2590318
The framerate is shit and it has no sound but this is still really impressive considering it's running off of stock Genesis hardware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuYFmIEtLLk

>>2591418
>Capcom ported a LOT of games properly from CPS to consoles

Most of those ports had some kind of downgrade, load times, slowdowns etc, Capcom Classics Collection is mostly arcade emulation.

>>2591430
In some rare cases like King of Dragons it ended up pretty competent.

>>2591451
You mean King of Dragons for SNES? it's good, but far from perfect, still one of the best Capcom ports on the console.

>>2591285
>Virtual On
>dead
Uh...no?

>>2591531
Ummm, yes?

>>2591535
It's got the activity of Metroid but it isn't dead.
I'm sure the image has other issues it's just that one stood out as incorrect.

>>2591430
Capcom Classics Collection is also in the wrong resolution.

>>2591430
It was done by Digital Eclipse. Porting older arcade games to newer consoles died off during sixth gen, considering emulation is much easier to do.

>>2591603
How so?

>>2591827
he's full of shit, the arcade resolution is some weird nonstandard number but the monitor is supposed to scale to 4:3 anyway

>>2591827
Pig disgusting 480i.

>>2584848
SNES is more powerful in some ways, Genesis was more powerful in others. Both were fantastic consoles for their time

>>2591995
Don't be rational and fair buddy, this is a console war thread.

>>2592004
>rational and fair
He didn't say anything specific at all. He's just being generically political correct.

I like the Sega CD version and GBA verison of FF more than the SNES and arcade. They're pretty good ports of the game. The music in Sega CD verison is my favorite and I love the features in the GBA one. But SoR 2 destroys the competition between the two and SoR is fantastic game much better than FF on snes.

>>2592126
Final Fight CD would have been nice if it wasn't for the crappy punch speed. Final Fight One has terrible music.

>>2592156
Yeah that bug is annoying, but kinda balances the enemy on-screen limitation, also it's the closest port to the arcade along with the X68k port.

>>2592156
Yeah that bug is annoying, but kinda balances the enemy on-screen limitation, also it's the closest port to the arcade along with the X68k port. Overall Final Fight CD is a much better port than the SNES and GBA ports.

>>2592191
Honestly, the slow attack speed fucks up the challenge completely. Final Fight CD is not as good as it could've been. It's a pretty overrated port in all honesty.

>>2592210
>Honestly, the slow attack speed fucks up the challenge completely.
For you i guess, i think it's fair considering that you have fewer enemies on-screen than the arcade.

And no, it's hardly overrated, it's not a perfect port, but it's much more accurate than every other port except for the x68000 (which also has some problems) and had neat extras. Final Fight never got a perfect port.

>>2590528
Zyrinx did the equivalent of that in their game Red Zone, which looked and ran just as good as an early PSX game without any slowdown. Hell, the bastard even had FMV in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQxU2CIVb3c

>>2584943
>>2584848
afaik the snes cpu could do some basic operations at double the speed of the genesis one (so it is fine that only runs at half the speed), but the 68000 has more registers and even has 32bit instructions so it could pull the more complex stuff easier than the snes cpu. Also the DMA mechanism was more advanced, the snes relied on on-cart chips if the game needed a lot of oomph. On SEGA-16 people have made demos that show stock genesis doing mode7 mariokart/fzero style and even polygonal 3d a la star fox. Also, Wolfenstein3D.
That said, the Snes had a more advanced ppu that could display more colours and had the mode7 built in.

Am I the only SNES fan here who can admit that the Genesis was probably a more powerful console? The SNES had a nice sound chip and some neat hardware graphical effects, as well as a much broader color palette, but the Genesis had a better CPU, and really, this is what made the difference back then. The Genesis VDP also ran at a higher resolution than the SNES most of the time (320x224 vs 256x224). True, the SNES did have a 512x448 graphics mode, but this was very sporadically used.

I honestly don't think the SNES would have been able to handle Red Zone, Panorama Cotton, Alien Soldier, or Zero Tolerance without the SuperFX chip... but the Genesis managed to render these in software, at a higher average screen resolution to boot. Let's not forget that the devs who worked on Road Rash and Gunstar Heroes themselves mentioned that the SNES wouldn't be able to handle these games.

On the flipside, I'm not sure the Genesis would have been able to pull off the atmosphere of Super Metroid. Its soundtrack doesn't seem well suited to FM synthesis, and it makes great use of the SNES color palette, as well as things like the inbuilt transparency effects. It may not be as good at pushing sprites or doing 3D effects, but I think the SNES was definitely better suited for the lush sound and visuals of games like Super Metroid and Demon's Crest.

I love both consoles, though I will admit that I like the SNES library better, probably because I have more nostalgia for it, and the games tend to hold up better to modern tastes. But the Genesis, that thing had some fucking horsepower, and it could run circles around the SNES in many situations as a result.

>>2592319
That's awfully reasonable and fair of you.

>>2592038
Yeah, we need to get this settled definitively. Whichever of these obsolete consoles is the slightly weaker of the two deserves to be mocked and laughed at for all time for being inferior garbage.

>>2592403
The Genesis has its ass covered in any scenario though. Even if it's weaker, it still is technically 2 years older so it has a good enough excuse.

>>2592319

This why /vr/ is worth saving

>>2592156
The speed in Sega CD yeah agreed thats my main issue and the music in thr GBA is ok but its an early release for the system so i let it slide the features somewhat make up for it like SFA guy and Cody. Wishing they added Saturday night slammers Haggar.

We can all agree that the Sega CD/32x suck, right?

>>2592507
That's way too harsh, they are undeveloped addons, but they still had some decent games.

>>2592527
I was referring to the hardware itself, not the games.
The Sega CD's ram sucks but that doesn't mean Sonic CD is bad, just that the system it is on sucks.
The NES had a bad design compared to the Famicom, but that doesn't mean that Zelda is a bad game.

>>2592319

On the other hand, the SNES GPU could do effects that the Genesis never could. Mode 7 was a feature so good that Sega pinched it for the Sega CD.

With retro consoles, you find that a lot of consoles aren't more powerful than others, simply that they have different capabilities.

>>2592537
Sega copied everything that Nintendo decided to do, at that time.

Sega CD, Game Gear, SVP chip, even the Saturn... they were all knee jerk reactions.

>>2592528
Sega CD RAM does not suck, it has plenty enough of it.
What sucks is that all the Genesis limitations (color palette, video ram bandwidth, etc) for rendering graphics still apply to Sega CD despite the improved hardware.
What sucks too is that the majority of developped games did not even tried to take benefits of the 2xCPU for more intense games or the larger CD-ROM storage for deeper games but just used it as a CD audio player for Genesis games.

>>2592507
If you look closer at it, you can find a common scheme.

Sega CD = 2 x 68000 CPU

32X & Saturn = 2 x SH2 CPU

I think they all failed because parallel programming is difficult to master, games development tools were not advanced enough yet to make it easier for devs and games development costs were kept too low for people to really invest their time on it.

>>2592550

>Even the Saturn
?

>>2592554
What sucks is that the expansion port on the Megadrive was data-only, it had no cpu interrupts. This was the reason why they had to add an extra CPU into the Sega CD, and a lot of extra ram as well. A lot of that memory was used as a revolving door so the two systems could do BASIC communication. You simply could not make the two 68ks work in parallel because they had zero ways to talk each other directly, they could only communicate in a roundabout way.

This increased hardware complexity, increased hardware price, made it more difficult to program, and made it much less faster than it could be.

>>2592564
Saturn was literally SNES +1 if you look at the audio and video hardware; it also has a ridiculous amount of expansion abilities to make up for the near complete lack of them on the Megadrive.

Then when they saw the Playstation specs, they changed the NEC V60 into 2x Hitachi SH2s, added an extra megabyte of memory on a slow 16-bit bus, and did a ton of last-minute fixes on the graphics hardware to squeeze a few percent extra performance out of it (texture end codes).

knee jerk reactions all around.

>>2592563
Sega CD had an extra 68k because they needed a controller for the CD and something to handle the extra audio/video hardware. It also could not interrupt the main 68k, which made parallel processing completely impossible.

Saturn and 32x had 2x SH2s in a master/slave setup because that's how Hitachi designed the SH2s and because they had Sega by the balls in 1993 (they supplied so much of the Saturn chipset).

>>2592507
>32X

Yep.

>Sega CD

Fuck off.

>>2592403
Now you're just going to the other ridiculous extreme.

>>2592550
I think SEGA used the PC Engine CD as reference. The former was out the same year the Mega Drive launched in Japan and saw a lot of sales from a Japanese market captivated by its potential for anime-style cinema and long-form adventure/RPG titles. Sega CD was a valid move to find success with CD games worldwide, disregarding how much better the PCE CD's implementation and third-party support was by comparison. In hindsight SEGA was never going to wedge their 16-bit console between the Super Famicom and PC Engine platforms in Japan anyway, nor would FMV-based games work on their own merits and keep up sales momentum overseas. NEC used their add-on better just by having it available near the start of their console's life-cycle with time for developers to adopt it appropriately...and then they drank the kool-aid with PC-FX in 1994, lol

>>2592820
>...and then they drank the kool-aid with PC-FX in 1994, lol
Why did NEC performed so well in Japan with PC Engine, only to fuck it up with the PC-FX?

>>2592550
>Sega CD
Did Nintendo have a SNES CD?
>Game Gear
Did nintendo have a game boy with colors? oh yeah 8 years later. Did Nintendo have NES compatibility with the Game Boy? No
>SVP
Only used for an arcade port from a game released before Star Fox.

>Saturn
This is meme tier.

>>2592537
>Mode 7 was a feature so good that Sega pinched it for the Sega CD.
Yeah because Nintendo invented scaling right? besides Sega CD's scaling capabilities are quite more polished than Mode 7, because it's capable of good sprite Scaling, Mode 7 is just scaling on a background.

>>2592564
Saturn was essentially SNES 2.0 if you lived in Japan.

>>2592848
Yeah i sure love to play Gungriffon and Bulk Slash on the SNES.

>>2592848
Nah. That would be the original PlayStation with its buttload of Squeenix RPGs.

>>2584919
When you dig deeper you find out it was.

>>2584848
CPU freq is not equivocal to more powerful. IPS must also be considered. That being said while the SNES was technically more powerful it also had it's share of limitations like sprite variation constraints. Though the SNES could technically put out more sprites than the genesis it couldn't mix the same kind of variations.

Some responded about DMA, which is what blast processing is, but both systems had DMA. The answer to that is, it's not really.

>>2592853
>>2592858
I'm just saying Nintendo dropped the ball hard in Japan with the 64 and the Saturn and PlayStation picked it up.

>>2592863
>When you dig deeper you find out it was.
Then show me again as impresive as SoR2/3 or Alien Soldier.

>>2592863
>When you dig deeper you find out it was.
Then show me a game as impresive as SoR2/3 or Alien Soldier.

>>2592863
>When you dig deeper you find out it was.
Genesis has a faster CPU. Snes was better in just about every other way.

Faster CPU means action games run better. Hence you have insanely fast games like Alien Soldier and Gunstar Heroes that would be impossible on Snes.

As a counterpoint Snes had much more impressive graphical and sound features. Games like Yoshi's Story and Chrono Trigger, with their beautiful soft palettes, extensive use of transparency/parallax and lush soundtracks would be impossible on the Genesis.

>>2593043
Yoshi's Island would benefit in quite a few themes with FM though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTY4fopHxtQ

Colors is a common problem problem with the console, but you still can make great graphics on the console with enough effort. Besides, graphics isn't just colors IMO, Final Fight CD manages to look a lot better than the SNES port just using half the pallete.

>>2593043
Yoshi's Island would benefit in quite a few themes with FM though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTY4fopHxtQ [Embed]

Colors is a common problem problem with the console, but you still can make great graphics on the console with enough effort. Besides, graphics isn't just colors IMO, Final Fight CD manages to look a lot better than the SNES port just using 1/3
the pallete.

>>2592820
>I think SEGA used the PC Engine CD as reference.

SNES CD started development even before the SNES was released.

It is likely that the PC Engine CD influenced them as well, but Nintendo announcing that they are working on this is the point where Sega jumps in and decides to do it as well.

FMV games only became widespread because Night Trap became a huge success. Remember how many godawful digitized fighters appeared after Mortal Kombat as well.

>>2589208
~lmao
~being this baka(idiot)

>>2592845
>Did Nintendo have a SNES CD?

They announced it years before the SNES was even out. NEC also had one. Sega had to jump ship or get left behind. The reason the SNES CD never came out was due to Sony dicking around, anyway.

>Did nintendo have a game boy with colors? oh yeah 8 years later.

Did the Game Gear had any battery life? No it didn't, not even today.

>Did Nintendo have NES compatibility with the Game Boy? No

And it still outsold all handhelds on the market for over a decade. Imagine that.

>Only used for an arcade port from a game released before Star Fox.

The SVP was a reaction to the SFX chip, and the whole "put a chip in a cart and do 3d" trick.

>This is meme tier.

Analyze the audio/video capabilities of the Saturn and you'll find MANY parallels. It could do a hardware mode 7 background identical to the SNES for Christ sake.

>>2592845
>Yeah because Nintendo invented scaling right?

No, but they popularized it on the SNES, and suddenly every game used it to look cool. So the Megadrive needed it too suddenly. There was absolutely no reason for the Sega CD to add scaling, or even PCM sound, but they had to add it to get feature parity with the SNES.

>>2592845
>besides Sega CD's scaling capabilities are quite more polished than Mode 7

More capable, but not as polished: it couldn't do full-screen scaling at 60fps due to limitations on the Megadrive side. It's why most scaling games either did not scale full screen, or were running at a low frame rate.

>>2593207
>They announced it years before the SNES was even out. NEC also had one
Oh so NEC created the first CD-based console, yet Sega somehow copied it from Nintendo, pretty cool logic there buddy.

>the Game Boy outsold the Game Gear and had better battery!
And what does that have to do with it being a "ripoff" of the Game Boy, again? The point is that it has enough difference in features/hardware to be only a "copy". Your argument is just as dumb as saying the SNES is a copy of the Atari lynx because it had Mode 7 a year before the SNES.

>The SVP was a reaction to the SFX chip, and the whole "put a chip in a cart and do 3d" trick.
Just as Star Fox was a reaction to Namco/Sega early 3D games attemps and rail-shooter games.

>It could do a hardware mode 7 background identical to the SNES for Christ sake.
Yeah because Sega sure didn't have an scaling powerhouse in their 80s in games like OutRun, Power Drift, After Burner or Galaxy Force, Space Harrier, Hang-On dumbass.

>No, but they popularized it on the SNES, and suddenly every game used it to look cool. So the Megadrive needed it too suddenly.
haha fucking really? scaling was a common thing already in the 80s, mainly popularized in Sega arcades, it inspired companies like Taito or Namco to create superscaler classics like Chase HQ, Night Striker or Lucky & Wild. Mode 7 was a just a poor attempt of a very limited kind of scaling, what Sega CD and Saturn did was just to bring 80s superscarlers game to home consoles, something that was out way before the limited as fuck Mode 7 scaling.

>>2593248
i forgot

>it couldn't do full-screen scaling at 60fps due to limitations on the Megadrive side. It's why most scaling games either did not scale full screen, or were running at a low frame rate.
That's because the scaling was much more complex than Mode 7 which is just 1 background. You could never run games like Battlecorps, Soul Star or Batman Returns or on the SNES, because Mode 7's scaling is extremely limited, the SNES could never do sprite scaling, the Genesis can do sprite scaling even without the Sega CD as showed in Road Rash.

>>2593207

>>2593248
>Oh so NEC created the first CD-based console, yet Sega somehow copied it from Nintendo, pretty cool logic there buddy.

We don't know exactly who influenced who and which ones got known first. What we know is that the PCECD was released in late 1988, and that Nintendo approached Sony with the SNES-CD in 1988. This is not enough information, since we may have had the PCECD announced even earlier, or maybe the Nintendo/Sony deal was not announced at the time, etc.

We don't know for sure if Sega did the Sega CD because they were copying NEC, or because they saw that Nintendo was working on a CD expansion too.

Either way, CD expansions were a thing and Sega was joining the bandwagon started by others either way - despite the fact that the Megadrive was simply not built to be able to handle all the crap they crammed into the Sega CD, hence why it cost so much but added so little.

>And what does that have to do with it being a "ripoff" of the Game Boy, again?

Nintendo did a successful new thing, and Sega wanted to outdo them, so they rushed out a portable Master System that had severe battery problems (and also other problems, like leaking caps). Because they absolutely wanted to be better, they ended up releasing something that was not properly suitable, and thus cost more and performed worse. The same way the Sega CD, or the 32x, or the Saturn all did.
Before you ask, the "worse performance" part was the battery life.

>Just as Star Fox was a reaction to Namco/Sega early 3D games attemps and rail-shooter games.

The point I was making was about the chip in the cart, not which game was running on it.

>>2593296
>Either way, CD expansions were a thing and Sega was joining the bandwagon started by others either way
That's a biased as fuck "logic", i can say the same about the SNES because it came out as an answer to the Genesis released two years later. Besides, having an "idea" to do something doesn't mean shit if you don't do it, PCE-CD is a real console, SNES-CD at 88' was nothing but loose idea that only nintendrones like you take seriously.

>hence why it cost so much but added so little.
It costed the same as the PCE-CD and was more powerful than it, it had a Final Fight port as good as the one from x68000 which is a 6x more expensive machine. It's fine hardware for the time.

>"worse performance"
Because the game boy was perfect right? with its shitty screen, no colors and no backward compatibility. Even when the battery is a problem (easily solved with an adapter anyway), you must be really blind to deny that the Game Gear was more powerful than the Game Boy. Its main problem was that Sega didn't updated it constantly like Nintendo did with the Game Boy.

>The point I was making was about the chip in the cart, not which game was running on it.

Even if it's about hardware, it was just a single game, Nintendo copied Saturn's much more inteligent expansion system on the whole N64 console.

Funny how you ignore my scaling argument as you realized how shitty and uneducated your point was. Just fuck off tbh.

>>2593248
>Yeah because Sega sure didn't have an scaling powerhouse in their 80s

That just makes it even weirder that the Saturn had a background mode that specifically did mode7 like effects. None of their arcade hardware did a similar effect. The scaling that Sega did in their own hardware was... sprite scaling, and nothing else, just telling a sprite to go to a bigger size; this can be made fairly easily with minimal math, a few extra division before you read a pixel from memory (back in the 80s this was of course a prohibitively expensive operation).

The "mode7" background did not work like that. It applied perspective correct transform, scale, and rotation on all axes to a background, using a transform matrix. It worked like that on the SNES, and it worked like that on the Saturn. And it's a purely background effect, not a sprite one.

I can't think of any reason as to why add this, than to be able to do SNES style crap.

>scaling was a common thing already in the 80s, mainly popularized in Sega arcades

Then why didn't they put it in the Megadrive? They actually wanted to, but it made the VDP too big and expensive (the hardware designer himself said this in an interview).

But suddenly when the SNES comes out and showcases amazing scaling effects, the Sega CD now absolutely needs scaling as well.

>what Sega CD and Saturn did was just to bring 80s superscarlers game to home consoles, something that was out way before the limited as fuck Mode 7 scaling.

You greatly overstate the Sega CDs ability to do scaling. Yes, it could do it in an extremely powerful way, but the awful interface between the SCD and the Megadrive severely crippled it. So much that it could never hope to achieve the same thing as Segas arcade super scalers did even in the 80s.

>>2593271
>That's because the scaling was much more complex than Mode 7 which is just 1 background.

No, it was because the Megadrive VDP could not take graphics input. The only way to add any external graphics was to brute-force it; upload the new graphics to the VDP memory on-the-fly.

Both the SVP chip and the Sega CD Scaler worked like that, uploading tiles into the VDP memory. FMVs worked like that too (both with and without the Sega CD). Any polygonal graphics done on the Megadrive worked like that too. Wolfenstein 3d works like that too. Basically any graphics you compute in software are done that way.

But since you lacked the memory bandwidth, you were either limited to updating a smaller part of the screen only, or you had to drop the framerate.

Even if you only scaled one single sprite, you could not do it in full screen and 60fps on the Sega CD. It was either one or the other.

You could, however, manipulate the sprite (or background) position during horizontal interrupt to simulate perspectives. Not as freely as the SNES could, but you could do some real sick effects. Like that rotating tower in Castlevania, or the huge plane boss in Vectorman.

>>2593369
>and it worked like that on the Saturn. And it's a purely background effect, not a sprite one.
So they added a Mode 7-style scaling on top of classic sprite-scaling, so what? that doesn't change that the Saturn has much more powerful scaling capabilities than the SNES based on 80s arcade, the SNES could never have an After Burner or Galaxy Force like the Saturn did, because it doesn't have sprite scaling capabilities at all, it's impossible for the SNES to do sprite scaling.


>Then why didn't they put it in the Megadrive?
Because it' a fucking 1988 console? You don't have to be that smart to realize that Sega loved scaling since games like Turbo from 1980, however making a poweful scaling console in the 80s is just impossible. It makes much more sense for a 90s system to do scaling than a 1988 console. SNES tried scalig with Mode 7, but it's quite poor, nowhere near as advanced as Sega's superscalers and Saturn games.

>So much that it could never hope to achieve the same thing as Segas arcade super scalers did even in the 80s.
Of course it couldn't, the gap of arcades and consoles at the time was huge, arcades were top notch and expensive as fuck. However Sega CD's scaling was still a lot more capable and closer to the powerful scaling from 80s arcade than the Mode 7 ever was, and it's certairly the most powerful 16-bits CD console.

>>2593401
>Even if you only scaled one single sprite, you could not do it in full screen and 60fps on the Sega
And SNES couldn't even scale sprites, your point?

>>2593401
>Even if you only scaled one single sprite, you could not do it in full screen and 60fps on the Sega
And SNES couldn't even scale sprites, only a single background, your point?

>>2593365
>Besides, having an "idea" to do something doesn't mean shit if you don't do it

It is enough to make competitors to start ripping your shit off. Like how suddenly everyone started making smart watches after Apple introduced theirs.

>SNES-CD at 88' was nothing but loose idea that only nintendrones like you take seriously.

It was only a plan, but if a competitor announces that they are doing something new and more powerful, then you need to at least plan on a way to counter that, or else you are left behind.

This is how the free market works, even outside videogames.

>nintendrones

Funny that, I only owned Sega (and Commodore) game hardware. I'm just more aware how painfully stupid a lot of Segas decisions was.

>It costed the same as the PCE-CD and was more powerful than it,

Of course it was. It came out 3 years later.

>you must be really blind to deny that the Game Gear was more powerful than the Game Boy. Its main problem was that Sega didn't updated it constantly like Nintendo did with the Game Boy.

I'm not denying that the Game Gear was more powerful. I'm telling you that, because of that power, it was technologically hampered and could not provide anywhere near the same amount of battery time as the Game Boy, which was a MAJOR SELLING POINT.
Having a power adapter or a rechargeable battery pack did not help, since then the machine was not portable anymore.

The Game Gear also had reliability problems: it suffered from leaking caps damaging the PCBs.

>Even if it's about hardware, it was just a single game, Nintendo copied Saturn's much more inteligent expansion system on the whole N64 console.

The Saturns expansion system was not "intelligent", it was a mechanically unreliable horror.

The Sega CD had back-up carts before either, the Neo Geo also had memory carts before either, and expanding RAM was a thing going as far back as the 80s, maybe even the 70s, in computers.

>>2593365
>Funny how you ignore my scaling argument as you realized how shitty and uneducated your point was.

I did not ignore it, I just had to make a separate reply for it because of the post character limit.

>>2593418
>>2593419
>And SNES couldn't even scale sprites, only a single background, your point?

That it could still scale a full screen at full speed.

Sega CD scaler had more utility, but it could never what it did smoothly.

>>2593464
You are still exaggeratting about the CDs again, giving Nintendo too much undeserved credit for "starting" CD consoles when they didn't. It was a inevitable fate for all companies to start using CD systems, and PCE-CD was the first, not Nintendo.

>Of course it was. It came out 3 years later.
PCE Super CD came out the same year though, and it's still not as powerful as the Sega CD. Standard PCE-CD is just an standard PCE with CD storage, so it's pretty weak.

>The Saturns expansion system was not "intelligent", it was a mechanically unreliable horror.
Yeah because having essentially arcade perfect ports is an horror, don't be delusional m8, the RAM expansion worked the same way as Nintendo did with the N64, it was much more intelligent than wasting money on chips for every single cart.

>>2593485
>That it could still scale a full screen at full speed.
Still for a very limited usage tho, and certainly not as impressive as actual sprite scaling.

>>2593464
>The Sega CD had back-up carts before either, the Neo Geo also had memory carts before either, and expanding RAM was a thing going as far back as the 80s, maybe even the 70s, in computers.
>executing your own "NINTENDO DID CD" argument by predating Saturn's memory cart and expansion port

>>2591285
>Afterburner
>dead

If it wasn't for bullshit licensing bullshit it'd still be on sale. It was good and sold well.

>damnit

Genesis = video game fans
SNES = casuals

It's really quite simple. SNES was a casual machine filled to the brim with cut-and-past tier RPGs.

>>2594872
Natsume tho

>>2594872

Uh, no, video game fans owned both.

>>2594872
Not that it matters, but I lived through the 90s and the people who owned the Genesis were generally the future stoners of the world. It was the system that had the most sports and arcade action games.

>>2594872

Nice falseflag

>>2593043
>Genesis has a faster CPU.
A less powerful faster CPU. See Mhz Myth. It all depends on what you do with it. The SNES CPU in most cases would benchmark faster. That being said, performance isn't always strictly CPU especially in consoles where managing memory, sprites etc... was also a concern and could hit bottlenecks. Coding performance can also make a difference and that's independent of system.

>Faster CPU means action games run better.
Not really no. Yet again see the former, MHz myth etc... The SNES was the machine that performed better. Also, games like that are entirely possible with the SNES. See Rendering Ranger R2 for an example of sprite output at 60FPS. It's not anywhere as good of a game, but it's technically possible to have Gunstar Heroes on the SNES. It just action games were less of a demographic for the SNES and many games got pretty manhandled. Each system had it's share games that ran like shit even though they shouldn't have, though admittedly the SNES had more. The Genesis also had parallax, transparency and yeah you could do fairly lush soundtracks with the Genesis if you knew how to handle FM and you'd get better top end since the Genesis had higher frequency output - which is where most people faltered on the genesis. It had a far superior sound system that was largely not utilized to anywhere near a significant portion of it's potential.

>>2595284
Only in the US maybe. No one gave much of a shit about sports games over here.

>wars over retro consoles
>2015
Is this real life?

>>2595284
Not that it matters, but I lived through the 90s and that's bullshit.

>>2595323
>See Rendering Ranger R2 for an example of sprite output at 60FPS
The same repeated sprites with shitty animation all the time, not really impressive IMO, it looks decent on still pictures, but that's it.

>>2595347
Do you remember that story about the Japanese dude who stayed on a mountain for like 40 years after WWII ended? He never got the call that the war was over, but still hid in the mountains and even killed some people.

These people are the video game equivalent, except they've killed no one. They do not know that it is no longer the 90s. They do not know that they can just buy a cheap SNES/Genesis or emulate. They do not know that Funcoland is dead.

These people, these are the people in life that you pity.

>>2595401
I didn't say it was impressive or good. Seriously, what's wrong with you retards. Why is reading so difficult for you people. We're not even on /v/.

>>2588371
I think youre wrong, but whatevs...

>>2590318
>mfw whenever I look at Mickey Mania on SNES compared to Genesis version
>crazy nintendo warriors still saying that their version is the best of them all, including the music

>>2595824
Delusion > reality

>>2588408

I honestly like Hyperstone Heist better than TiT

like most of the other Konami games on the Genesis it runs well, its fast paced the way it controls just feels nicer to me somehow compared to TiT
The visuals are less detailed overall and of course the sound isn't as good but I think the animations might be better and the colors seem to pop out a bit more
I like the different levels too

>>2595832
I like how Rocksteady actually fights like Rocksteady in the Genesis version. Too bad they didn't include Bebop either.

>>2595832
The SNES soundtrack has a cool "hit" sample that isn't even in the arcade. That's why people like it.

>>2595832
Hyperstone Heist > Turtles in Time

>>2595832
Can't I agree or disagree too much. The way I see it, both games are great. They both had their share or unique fights and it was fun playing both.

I always thought the Hyperstone Heist was harder thou. Somehow, in Turtles in Times I could easily breeze through the game but in Hyperstone Heist, enemy would just punish me MUCH faster if I made a mistake, it also always seemed like there were more enemies on the screen to deal with on the Genesis.

>>2595870
HH was faster and more difficult. Each stage was also longer.

>>2595735
I didn't insult you at all, you are the one who belongs to /v/ buddy.

>>2595870
>I always thought the Hyperstone Heist was harder thou
How, it's: slide all the time: the game.

Not saying that TiT is harder, but both are quite easy overall.

>>2595870

yeah difficulty is also a common thread between Konami's game series that were on both SNES and Genesis
Hard Corps is harder than Contra 3 (like way harder) and Bloodlines is harder than Castlevania IV

>>2589031
Altered Beast is an ass game with ass controls

You're a fucktard if you think Ninja Warrior (especially with three characters that play differently as compared to two gay dudes in speedos) is even comparable to that clusterfuck that was Altered Beast, then you're an idiot

>>2595882
To be fair, if you're going to say that you could just say:

>TiT is literally: Run, hit enemy with shoulder, throw him.

Both games are ridiculously easy if you cheese them.

>>2595901
>Altered Beast is an ass game with ass controls
The controls are fine, it's everything else: autoscrolling, single plane beat em up with zero enemy variety, worst of all the stages loop if you miss a powerup. The animal forms are kinda fun and the bosses are neat, that's about it.

>>2596132
>Both games are ridiculously easy if you cheese them.
Pretty much what i meant. I'll just play a better beat 'em up.

>>2596193
I wish Konami had attempted to port Violent Storm to the Mega Drive at least. That's way better than any of the Turtles beat-'em-ups.

>>2595879
Did I say you insulted me? No. But you did respond to an example of what I said with something completely unrelated like how it looks as if that was meaningful or relevant in any way to the discussion. And you did so with commentary that ignores the context of either system and what 80% of sprites on the screen typically fucking are in the first place, which are static bullets zinging around or 1-3 frame explosions like it matters how well it's animated.

So maybe yeah fuck off.

>>2590227

>>2592319
>On the flipside, I'm not sure the Genesis would have been able to pull off the atmosphere of Super Metroid.

It could have.
These aren't 'the best' examples. But it gives you an idea of similar tonalities and variations.
It's entirely possible to produce similar ambient. The fact is either no one gave a shit or lacked the ambition to do so. It's not a hardware limitation it's a user limitation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9R2mQwlG_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTPsH_vDy-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhTMmgxFNJU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc6iaD7Gfeg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9hsPckzZCY

I'll repeat because I realize it's extremely hard for people on /v/ to comprehend words. These are not flawless perfect representations that are meant to taken as the end all limitations and closest examples of what could be done with the system. They're merely meant to be examined as a demonstration of more alternative tonality of potential instrument sets that COULD be used in a professional arrangement with more appropriate tweaking. FM is a more complex beast to work with, but it has a far wider range than people assume it does because just like most shit everywhere, people stick to garbage presets and rudimentary shit rather than refining it.
(though in some cases that effect may be desired such as rhodes piano FM sound, while originally meant to replicate a piano it's often used to replicate a rhodes not a piano. People like the sound itself and other harder FM sounds for what they are rather than what they try to replicate the same way the TB-303 is known for being a TB-303 and not as the poor makeshift bass guitar accompaniment as it was intended to be. It does however work 100% perfectly as the TB-303 that sounds like a TB-303.)

In short, the range is greater than assumed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm7sT87AXFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5OOANrFEq4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GIzTJiMaak

>>2598958
The atmosphere is more than just sound. The breadth of colors could also not be produced on the Sega Genesis. But that's also because the game was developed specifically for the SNES.

Also, the pacing of Super Metroid doesn't lend itself to the advantages of the Sega Genesis's faster CPU.

>>2599428
>The breadth of colors could also not be produced on the Sega Genesis.

Eh not specifically, but you can blend enough. Either way let's not forget Metroid was also a game on the NES, which shared similar atmosphere. It's less about the breadth of colors and more about the usage of colors.

>Also, the pacing of Super Metroid doesn't lend itself to the advantages of the Sega Genesis's faster CPU.
Really fucking fast?
Also actually it does. Also, faster clock, slower instruction per cycle and technically less powerful. The SNES is an estimated 1.5MIPS vs the Genesis ~1MIPS. MIPS are a general benchmark and really games are designed around tuning towards specific code as well. But in general, no the Genesis had the slower processor and it was utilized fairly well. Also, your comment in general is pure bullshit. Assuming you were even correct about the CPU and the absurd implication that it's not a fast game and you're wrong on both account, but hypothetically, it wouldn't fucking matter. If you had a slower game game it would still be fine on a faster CPU, because a faster CPU could handle it. In fact, you'd get to put more CPU time into graphical fidelity or logic in that respect because you're not pushing frame-time budgets. For fuck sake, how fast of a game do you think fucking Phantasy Star or Shining Force is... But Anon those aren't platformers... okay then. How fast is the pacng of EWJ, Jurassic Park, Gods, Flashback, Generations Lost, Castlevania Bloodlines, Aladdin, B.O.B., Cool Spot, Dinos for Hire, Gargoyles, James Pond, Lion King, Ristar, Vectorman, Wolf Child, Castle of Illusion. I mean you're argument isn't just wrong from a technical standpoint, even if it weren't, it just doesn't make any fucking sense. What the fuck? How does the pacing have any fucking thing to do with the qualities of the game about taking advantage of the CPU other than potentially improving the game if at all?

>>2599428
Also, how the fuck do you even assume that the Genesis can't display a game with proper atmosphere. Have you not ever played the thing? It handles a whole ton of atmospheres and looks. It's competent hardware and the games for it span a wide berth of atmosphere and motifs all over the place. There's absolutely zero things about SM that would somehow be unrepresentable on the Genesis. Not 1:1 obviously, but yeah the game could be done in more or less the same way barring the button issue you'll run up against without a six button controller and even then the layout is shittier than the SNES controller.
I mean, just what is it you think that the Genesis would fail to replicate for the most part? The grey blocks? The red blocks? The blue blocks? The Green blocks? The red doors? The squiggly heat effect? Fill me in here how the Genesis isn't capable of producing a close facsimile because it sounds like you're confusing the Genesis with a fucking ZX Spectrum.

>>2600239
ZX spectrum for comparison... oh wait, it's not.

Super Metroid isn't that good anyway, i never thought as a problem that the Genesis doesn't have similar games.

>>2600260
Nah, Super Metroid is one of the best games ever made. Nothing on the Genesis is on par. That's not a hardware fault, that's just how the library and development worked out. The system very well could have had a straight up competitor if someone bothered to do it. There are plenty of good games for the system though. Many, I tend to find myself playing the Genesis more the SNES myself, but nothing on the Genesis is as solid as SM. Both share their ports of better ports as well for various reasons and both systems have a decent library at least and they both do different things well in their own way. Neither system is worth missing out the experience of playing and both were two of the greatest consoles to have ever existed, library wise really being key rather than the specific technical specs.

>>2600282
It's ok if you consider a game about wandering empty corridors with harmless enemies, dull bosses and collecting items with few to no relevant challenge "one of the best games ever". However i think action games don't mix well with exploration/adventure often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGzgKCsrNHM

>>2600282
>Super Metroid is one of the best games ever made

>>2598895
So he says that a 8mhz 65816 can come "pretty close" to matching a "currently available" 68000, (which was probably one at 12mhz). And that in some applications a 8mhz 65816 is "about" equivalent to a 16mhz 68000, but yet some people might "disagree" with him on that.

I don't see how this changes anything discussed so far in this thread when the Genesis 68000 had over double the clockspeed of the SNES 65816, and they both work on purely graphical applications.

>>2600282
You realize that this post boils down to "Super Metroid is my favorite game and the Genesis doesn't have it", right?

I mean, I have Super Metroid, and I think its alright, but really now.

>>2600470
ecelebs pls go

>>2600674
This, i also have the game and while i think it's ok it's not the second coming of jesus christ. People have to understand that "exploration" isn't that hot for everyone. I understand that it was a novelty at the time, but foe me it doesn't make up the lacking action and poor challenge, with brain-dead enemies and meh bosses with mediocre patterns. Hell, i only died once the first (and only) time i beat the game.

>>2600724
actually I take that back, vid looks pretty informative.

>>2584848

>>2600801
I still see tits and pantyhose, sorry anon.

>>2600801
People see some stupid shit. How can you be so blind?

>>2600293
>However i think action games don't mix well with exploration/adventure often.
I think they mix well personally (Talking Genesis, Landstalker and Beyond Oasis are good examples imo) , that said I personally don't care for Super Metroid either.

>>2600801

>>2600819
Haven't played Landstalker, but Beyond Oasis has an pretty interesting combat for an aRPG, it plays like a top down beat 'em up (same devs from SoR2). So yeah while the game has some exploration/puzzle elements, it focuses more on combat and straightforward action opposed to games like Zelda or Secret of Mana.

>>2593168
>the drop

I feel like one of those "plebian listens to true patrican music" videos

>>2593168
yep, this does sound nice

>>2593419
Funny how you don't understand enough about how these consoles work to understand the difference between scaling a sprite and scaling a background but continue to talk shit.

>>2600972
Point was pretty simple nintendork, SNES' scaling was only limited to backgrounds, Sega CD can scale both sprites and backgrounds. Even the Genesis can do both decently with good pogramming.

>>2600208
>The SNES is an estimated 1.5MIPS vs the Genesis ~1MIPS. MIPS are a general benchmark and really games are designed around tuning towards specific code as well.
Haha, MIPS aren't a credible benchmark for anything. You may as well be comparing processors on the basis of being 32bit or 64bit.

A good example is, a Pentium 75 and an R4300i at 93.75 Mhz have virtually the same MIPS score (125 MIPS) and yet the Pentium 75 EASILY wins in every possible benchmark. There's no comparison. The R4300i real-world performance is more like a turbo-charged 486 than a Pentium.

>>2601204
HAHA, Reading is apparently not a credible way of obtaining information.

>>2600208
>>2600239
Holy shit are you autistic or something?

Your post summarized

> Metroid and Super Metroid have the same atmosphere
> Dribbling about obscure technical specifications instead of real-world performance.
> 'omfg you think the Genesis can't create atmosphere here's a picture.'

>>2600813
No fun allowed today, huh.

>>2601512
Your post summarized

>I'm fuckin stoopid

Grats. gb2/reddit/

>>2601817