/vr/ - Retro Games

S3&K

>>2586521
Sonic 3D blast.

There's extensive debate over Sonic 2 (Genesis / MD) versus S3&K. I lean more toward the latter.

I feel like the 8-bit series doesn't get enough credit, though.

>>2586536
Sonic 2 master system version is great. The gg version is made impossible thanks to the resolution.

>>2586521
Sonic 2

>>2586527
/thread

>>2586540
Not impossible, just full of bullshit blind jumps. Strange how the GG sonic 1 is actually easier than the SMS.

I haven't played any since I was an unbiased kid and I remember loving 2 and despising the other games, especially 3.

>>2586534
>Sonic 3D Blast

Not trying to be a contrarian, but this was indeed my favorite Sonic on Genesis. I can be objective enough to admit that the game does have its flaws, but I nonetheless love isometric platformers.

>>2586521
Sonic 2 is better than Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles individually.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles as a whole package is better than Sonic 2.

>>2586521
Sonic CD

>>2586601
I'd disagree and say that Sonic 3 is better than Sonic 2 and S&K, but S3&K is worse than Sonic 2.

>>2586574

Even though I don't like it so much it has some sweet soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le9dTWyXc1E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LJgfKVA3oE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiSP3kWiTPs

Sonic 2 = Sonic CD > S3&K > Sonic

am i weird if the only level i really enjoy in the series is casino night

to me its where the gameplay of sonic is actually fun

>>2586551

/thread

>>2586625

>>2586702
Of course it is, everything in S&K is just meaningless ugly bloat that makes the game too long and distracted instead of being a good, concise experience. Playing as Knuckles sucks, and after you get through the Sonic 3 levels the S&K levels just seem like a boring chore.

I usually hear Sonic 2 or Sonic CD.

My favorite is S3&K.

S2 = S3&K = SCD.
The perfect Sonic fix.

Sonic 2 is nostalgic for me because I played it as a kid, whereas I never played Sonic 3 (as a kid), therefore Sonic 2 is better.

>>2586521

To me, some hybrid of 2 and 3 would be best. But something about 3&K always felt overly-polished and flashy to me. It's a strange criticism, but it ends up feeling like a more shallow experience. So it'll always be 2 for me.

>>2586521
I say S3&K.
S1, every other level is a bit naff. Marble's boring, Labyrinth is annoying, Scrap Brain is pretty fun actually, but occasionally stupid. GHZ is actually brilliant for a first level though, SYZ is fun, SLZ is a nice relaxing level.
S2, most of the stages after Mystic Cave are kind of boring and I don't feel like playing. By the time I'm at Metropolis 3, I just want to turn the machine off. The more I play S2, the less I find myself enjoying it these days.
CD, the level design is way too choppy. Bosses manage to be easier than normal, even if they've got cool, elaborate setups.

>>2586734
S&K? Mushroom Hill is generally straightforward if a bit easy because it's the first level one plays with S&K without lock-on. Flying Battery is generally straightforward. Sandopolis 1 is actually great, it's 2 that's got issues. Lava Reef is brilliant, except for the autoscroll bit at the end. Hidden Palace/Sky Sanctuary is okay, it's mostly there to set the stage for the Death Egg similar to Sky Chase. Death Egg is a decent level.

there's nothing in S&K like Marble Garden (a level with really annoying gimmicks and a dumb layout with big-ass offscreen spikes everywhere) or as dumb as Carnival Night (which is just really damn long, and a lot of people had issue with the barrel -- I didn't, but it's still a weak stage as a whole)
like, I love S3, but those two levels really do mar the game a bit

>>2586536
can't stand S2 GG or SMS
S1 SMS is a brilliant game though. Chaos is okay enough, if a bit too easy and overly simple. Triple Trouble is almost wonderful but has some really ass levels (Robotnik Winter).

this thread makes me realize how much sonic kind of sucks. Most of the levels just aren't that fun to play through

>>2586623
/thread

>>2586859
go back to Youtube, underage.

>>2586859
Sonic 2 had the casino level, the chemical plant level and the Aqua level. These are all time classics.

>>2586536
Sonic 2 MS is my third favourite after S&K and Sonic 3. It's a top Sonic game and Sonic 1 MS ain't half bad either.

Chaos doesn't do much for me though. The Game Gear exclusive one is okay but suffers from being a Game Gear game.

>>2586521
As I grew up playing all of the 2D Genesis (and Sega CD) Sonic games, it's really hard to make a decision, but I'd have to go with Sonic 2 as it was the game that got me playing the series in the first place.

>>2586771
S&K is very superficial

S3 is a fun game tho

>>2586869
oh man, epic. you really showed that normie that they don't belong here. please keep working to preserve our precious board culture, anon-sama!

>>2586859
There's not really a level in sonic 1-3&k I don't enjoy. The closest are Labyrinth, Mystic Cave, Oil Ocean and Sandopolis, all of which I wasn't fond of as a kid but find less trying now.

>>2586536
>Crystal Egg Zones music
Best fucking reward for getting chaos emeralds in any game. Cool looking stage too. Very unusual to see a Robotnik stage that isn't just a shite factory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQFiLS8hAXs

>>2587007
I like Green Hill, Palmtree Panic, Tidal Tempest, Quartz Quadrant, Stardust Speedway, Aquatic Ruin, Chemical Plant, Mystic Cave, Metropolis, Hidden Palace (Sonic 2; you can play it on the iOS version), Angel Island, Hydrocity (especially Act 2), Ice Cap, Mushroom Hill, Flying Battery and Sky Sanctuary Zone.

>>2586626
Weren't some of the songs used on sonic adventure? Remixes.

>>2586521
3&K is a better game overall, but I prefer 2.
It feels like a tighter package, has better music, and is easier to pick up and play.
CD just feels sluggish.

>>2586521

Sonic 2

S3&K had a shit sprite design and you literally needed 2 carts to play it. It can die in a fire

>>2587127
Sonic 2 also had way tighter music.

The S3&K one was never really that impressive IMO. It's okay, but the tracks don't have as much personality.

Psh. this question is so passe

everyone knows the real dilemma is how do you pronounce "Hydrocity"?

>>2587246
This is such a retarded level name. I want to say Hydrocity as one word, but it makes more sense as Hydro-city.

>>2587246
Hydrocity, of course.

3&K is disqualified because it's 2 games

The objective Patrician rating is
S2>S1>S&K>S3=SCD

>>2587312
I always say it as one word, like velocity or viscosity

>>2587007
Sandopolis is probably my least favorite zone. It's not bad, just a bit boring, and it comes right between the two best zones in S&K.

>>2588013
>>2587312
Its definitely "Hydrocity".

>>2586859
/thread

>>2586976
And when combined make for the best game on the system next to streets of rage 2

>>2588147
Naw. They're better apart.

Really just throw S&K in the garbage, it's gay

>>2588208
Why they removed the save feature from sonic 3 in S&K, I'll never understand. I only owned S&K growing up along with Sonic 1 and that was it.

>>2588209
Well it uses the SRAM inside S3, I imagine it was just an easy cost saving measure when they intended it to be locked on primarily.

>>2588265
I suppose you're correct, but it's still stupid. What if someone skipped over sonic 3 and played S&K first?

>>2588276
Neither S3 or S&K needed a save feature individually, the flash memory (yes, flash memory, it didn't use a battery) was intended for the whole game, but they decided to let you use it on S3 as a convenient bonus, plus the whole competition times and so on.

>>2588208
lets compare S3 to S&K:

Angel island: brilliant opening act, great music. water part of second act felt forced to justify bubble shield but other than that, A grade stuff

Hydrocity zone: most competent water level in a 2D sonic game, fantastic music with a creative boss

marble garden: terrible stage design that drags on and suffers from evil paths that just take you back to the start, spinning top was a lame idea. mid-boss is trash and the music is grating after 2 acts of it (boss is good though)

carnival night: interesting level layout, though act 2 drags, esp with the underwater section. annoying music and rubbish boss. middles was decent

icecap zone: for an ice level, there sure was a lot of shitty swinging platforms, though on the whole good level design when it flowed, plus decent bosses. do i even need to mention the music?

launch base: a mishmash of badnicks with little cohesion (act 2 did a far better job of directing the player) with a dull mini boss and rubbish patterns boss. music is bitching, though a lot of people hate it

final boss: phase 1 was just a dull column laser firing fucker. second phase was great, challenging, atmospheric and well done (no points for the music as both games use it)

To be continued

>>2588208
>>2588383
cont'd

Mushroom hill: charming opening act. like angel island, the palette swaps mid-stage are great. good music and creative use f parlaying for boss

Flying battery zone: fast paced, well laid out stage with amazing music and a fun twist for the mid-boss, auto-scroll section for final boss was a bit meh but other than that, one of my all-time favourite stages

sandopolis: great art style, very fitting music and fast first act. mini-boss is only fun once and a chore after while boss is alright. second act suffers from length and rubish gimmick, similar to marble garden

lava reef zone: great visuals, layout and use of fire shields. mid-boss is meh but boss is a great idea. the cave paralaxing in the background looks great and the music fits the tone

hidden palace: cutscene zone, nothing of note other than knuckles can't fight for shit but for an attempt in simple story-telling, a lot is well conveyed.

sky sanctuary: gorgeous visuals, requires concentration to not get hit and boss rush was a great idea. suffers from lead of the music using the same channel as the ring pick up noise, ruining an otherwise great track, plus the bosses are all reuses, so no extra points there.

death egg: moderately hard zone, uses gimicks well and finally gives a level where the lightning shield comes into it's own. catchy music and fantastic mid-boss. second act gimmick is well used and alters gameplay in a simple but challenging way without slowing the player down (see sand and spinning tops). boss uses gimmick well but due to using it, is trivially easy but points for trying.

Final boss: phase 1 is a rehash of an earlier boss but the setting is good. phase 2 is balls to the walls hard, shame it's just about timing but the feeling when playing it is amazing. phase 3 could have been a cutscene for how trivial it is, but nice way to finish off the game

secret final boss: for a first attempt at this kind of boss, very strong attempt, plus music is great

>>2588383
>>2588413
okay, autism over. in summary they both have ass zones and great zones and holding one above the other is questionable. they are both good games.

>>2586527
>S3&K

>>2586521
Sonic CD. All 8/16bit Sonic games including the pinball game were pretty good though.

>>2586534
>Best 2D game
>3D Blast
wut

>>2586983
>>>/v/

>>2588454
If you'd actually played the game, you'd know that nothing about it is 3d.

>>2588467
I actually have played the game. Even though on a technical level it's a 2D game it feels like 3D in the sense you're able to move around freely in an area unlike the others which are more linear.

Also, thanks for implying I haven't played the game.

>>2588473
Isometric doesn't feel "3d". It feels like a drunken overhead game.

>>2588482
It doesn't feel "2D" either

>>2587427
Bubsy knows best.

>>2586521
Is the first game considered good? I'm currently playing it and it feels very repetitive. Never played a Sonic game before.

The music is great, though

Probably S3&K. I like Sonic 2 the most, though. By far. But I like all of the classic games.

>>2589347
I wouldn't call it repetitive, though Marble Zone wears thin quickly, and the game would benefit from more levels and less acts. It's a great game, but Sonic 2 outdoes it in basically every way.

>>2588454
It's made of 2D sprites and 2D layers.

>>2588413
>>2588383

i enjoyed your analysis. seems like you hold S&K in a bit higher esteem and I would agree

>>2589347

I don't like the first game. The pacing just sucks. You start out with the awesome Green Hill Zone and you're like FUCK YEAH but then it just all stops at Marble Zone. It looks great but is so slow and boring, a lot of waiting for platforms to move and doors to open. I'm not crazy about Spring Yard either because you have to wait for those fucking platforms to go up and down. Star Light is ok but Labyrinth Zone blows IMO.

Now that I think about it, I hardly enjoy anything about Sonic 1....

Are you wondering which to get? Sonic 2 is a great entry point and it's dirt cheap.

The General Consensus is Sonic 2. Probably, design wise and polish wise it is superior to Sonic 3&K. I mean shit, they even had a sentence in the manual for Sonic 3 that sometimes Robotnik set traps that are so devious they require you to reset!

But the epic romp of Sonic 3 & K makes it my favorite. Little prettier, little long, bunch of great jams. Both are really great titles.

All the Genesis ones?

Always disliked the 8-bit ones, though.

>>2586574
Try giving Spot Goes to Hollywood on the Genesis a go, you'll probably like it.

I didn't like 3/S&K as much, pacing felt wrong and they seemed to enjoy throwing barriers and gimmicky shit in front of you at all times, and the controls felt stiff compared to 1/2/CD.

1 is good if a bit primitive, 2 would be better without fucking Tails, and CD... okay, fuck it, just going to say it. CD is fucking perfect.

Fuck the haters.

>>2589676
>2 would be better without fucking Tails
You know Tails doesn't have to be there, right?

>>2589686
Yeah, well, by default he is. I know you can go to options and play alone, but the game is meant to be that little dick tagging along behind you.

>>2589702
Tails' presence doesn't really impact the game either way, though I suppose he can make it easier. I keep him turned off just for the sake of not getting distracted.

I'm not sure why he bothers you so much.

>>2589710
Maybe "bother" is too strong a word, it just seems unnecessary to have him there in the first place and I think the game would have been better to just keep him out or at least only show up for the 2 player splitscreen mode.

>>2586574
I have problems lining up myself with enemies. To me that is a big flaw, but other than that it wasn't THAT horrendous.

The best 2D Sonic game is Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric for the Commodore 64. Sonic Boom is the game that helped the 2D market of games and saved the Commodore from the market crash during the 1980's. It is a good game and I recommend it for those who have never even played a Sonic game. While Sonic Boom saved the Commodore, Sonic 06 killed the Genesis.

>>2589710
>he can make it easier.
In my experience he only makes things harder. If he hits a boss right before you do the temporary invincibility the boss gets will often send you plummeting into the drink. And of course there's the higher special stage ring requirements.

>>2591568
You have to be at least 18 years old to post here.

>>2589712
I like having him around because he makes the game feel more alive, or at least less lonely.
When I was a kid, I never knew he could be turned off, so I just got used to him. He can be pretty helpful if you time your jumps opposite of his during boss fights.

>>2588491
yes it does and it is

retard

>>2586574
I've probablly played 3d Blast just as much as 2 and way more than 3. 3&K still wins.

>>2586601
This has been my exact stance since the beginning. Sonic 2 is my favorite Sonic game. Everything about it is fantastic. And while I like it more than S3&K, I recognize than the game itself is better, if by nothing else than in sheer scope

>>2591839
>retard
what are you 12?

It took nearly a dozen posts before anyone suggested Sonic CD, and that is just so wrong. It's clearly the best.

Sonic 2 comes second. Then Sonic 1. The rest are all (ALL) horse shit as far as I'm concerned.

>>2593367
Why do you think 3 and S&K are bad? I'm in total agreement about the order otherwise, though.

>>2589347
>Is the first game considered good?
No one likes it all that much.
2 is superior in pretty much every way.

>>2593407
He never played it.

>>2586536
Sonic 2 was my first sonic game, and great in its own right.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles was a masterpiece and I regret my genesis breaking before S&K came out.

>>2586521
I'll never understand people's grudge against Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

That's like saying Streets of Rage 3 was utter shit because the graphics and gameplay were refined but the soundtrack was a completely different style.

Or even better: The Revenge of Shinobi is worse than Shinobi because it's less score oriented. Or even better: Shinobi 3 is shit compared to Revenge of Shinobi because you can run!

>>2594169
>SoR3 gameplay was refined
That's debatable.

>>2594169
It's contrarian faggotry. It's already leaked into /vr/. S3&K is undisputably the most well-made Sonic game of the franchise so of course people are gonna say it's awful whether they know it or not.

>>2594173
I don't think S3&K is fun anon

>>2594354
I respect your opinion, but know I'll never understand it. It was literally 2 but with improvements all across the board.

>>2594357
I don't really see anything in it that is less boring than two.

By the end of S2 I was not feeling like "boy I want more of this" it was more like "that was nice but any more of it would certainly have become tiring"

I like Sonic CD which is honestly quite a relaxing game with a different pace and flow to it, I mainly play it for sexy visuals and music.

>>2594363
I personally found 2 too short.

Freedom Planet

CD, obviously.

>>2594371
LOL

>tfw After the Sequel will never get controller support

>>2594357
>It was literally 2 but with improvements all across the board

that's a bad generalization and arguably incorrect

>>2594423
It's actually an astute observation. The physics were on par, the powerups were a welcome addition, and the overall level design and bosses were an improvement. Top it off with, better music and a significantly improved bonus level and you've got the king of Sonic games.

And it was graphically prettier, if that matters.

>>2594430
>subjective opinions
I can do that too honey

The physics were the same, the powerups were one of many needless gimmicks, the overall level design and bosses were bloated and uninspired. Top it off with music that paled in comparison to its predecessors and a significantly difficult and convoluted bonus level and you've got the dunce of Sonic games.

And the attempt at DKC style graphics are ugly and ruined the charm and personality of the original Sonic

>>2586804
>Chaos is okay enough, if a bit too easy and overly simple
Easy? Have you actually tried to get all chaos emeralds on that game?

>>2594443
Did you actually play the game or just saying things to disagree with him?

OFFICIAL BEST 2D SONIC GAMES POWER RANKINGS:

1. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
2. Sonic 2
3. Sonic & Knuckles
4. Sonic Spinball
5. Sonic CD
6. Sonic 3D Blast
900001. Sonic 1


EXTRA MENTION: Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine

>>2595294
Pretty good, actually.

>>2595294
>900001. Sonic 1
Sonic 1's not that bad.

>>2595294

>Sonic Spinball and 3D Blast being better than anything

Sure m8

>>2595294
Sonic 2 is the best Sonic game and it isn't even close.

>>2586804
>a lot of people had issue with the barrel
To this day, I still have no idea how anybody, especially kids who are supposed to be brimming with creativity, not figure the controls out.

Get Blue Spheres! > Spinning Maze > Ring Slide half-pipe

Sonic 2 is stupidly overrated

>>2595270
He could ask >>2594430 the exact same question.

Is there any way to make the marble zone go any faster? i hate how fucking long it takes.

I really dont get the love for Sonic 3. IMO it felt a little TOO overproduced, I didnt think the transitions in between stages were all that necessary. Plus, Sonic's sprite is shitty and worse than the previous games.

And the levels themselves weren't as great or memorable to me. Making the second world a water one is stupid - admittely its one of the better water worlds in Sonic, but it just kills momentum and is not that fun. And the carnival stage feels like its trying to capture the spirit of Casino Night but fails hard, the music also blows

>>2595838
Watch an up to date speedrun and learn the "zips".

I don't like the level design on Sonic 3. Idk. it was cool sonic had a snowboard in the game but the rest of the enemy designs and levels were kinda shitty. Having a mid boss really sucked. I hated when they created mid-bosses in games..

>>2588031
Gee I wonder if that movie was made by Dreamworks.

>>2595847
Mid bosses are really good when the game is centered around it's combat.

Like nobody minds that Gunstar Heroes or Alien Soldier are more boss fight than scrolling

But Sonic games are about movement and navigating your environment. How many Sonic bosses are about that? Most of them are about patience and precision while being stuck in a fixed claustrophobic environment.

S3&K has way more of what makes Sonic games gimmicky and flashy and superficial, but little in the way of what made them fun.

>>2587246
>>2587312

>3 days ago

I call it Hydrocity but they corrected it to Hydro City in Sonic Generations

>>2595924

hyrdocity sounds so much cooler

>>2595294
OFFICIAL OFFICIAL BEST 2D SONIC GAMES POWER RANKINGS:

1. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
2. Sonic & Knuckles
3. Sonic 3
4. Sonic 3D Blast
5. Sonic 1
6. Sonic CD
7. Sonic Spinball
8. Sonic 2

EXTRA MENTION: Puyo Puyo 2. Also Sonic 1 was the only good 8-bit Sonic.

>>2586536


>watch friend playing this in 93
>The level before you meet mecha sonic, he has tails following him in the pipes and on the level
>ask if I can borrow it
>he says when he completes it
>lets me borrow it a few days latter
>stick it in master system
>No tails
>think you must get him near that level
>can't find him
>he has to move away so I give the game back
>ask him how he got tails, something about emeralds
>get game gear version few years later
>try for ages to find tails, complete the game with all emeralds
>forget about it for a while and then look it up on some sonic forum that has all sprite rips and content that wasn't in the games.
>find out tails was not functional in the game but was intended to be thats why he is in the cutscenes

>>2595842
same here, you forgot to mention that Marble Garden is the most idiotically gimmicky and messiest Sonic stage only outdone by Wacky Workbench.

>>2595952

sonic 1 was a lacluster platformer
sonic 2 had basically no enemy's and looked unfinished

>>2595842
>>2595952
I love Hydrocity about as much as I hate Marble Garden.

I'd have to say Spring Yard, Labyrinth, Star Light, Tidal Tempest, Hydrocity, Ice Cap, Mushroom Hill, Flying Battery, Lava Reef, and Spring Stadium are my favorite zones, in some order.

My least favorite would be Marble, Hill Top, Mystic Cave, Oil Ocean, Metropolis, Sky Chase, Wacky Workbench, Stardust Speedway, Marble Garden, and Sandopolis, again in no particular order.

No small wonder Sonic 2 isn't really high on my list. I just don't like most of the levels, and hate several of the others. It's not so much "hate" so much as I find them annoying, don't care for the theme or the music, and they bore me to tears.

Tastes change. Sonic 2 was never my favorite, but I used to like it a lot more. I used to greatly dislike water levels. But for some reason I find that water levels are some of the most enjoyable levels.

>>2595967

>tfw you realize all the sonic games are shit

>>2595986
Soinc CD and Sonic Adventure are good anon

>>2595842
>Making the second world a water one is stupid
Of all the complaints you could level (heh) at Sonic 3 (and there are a lot of them) this has to be one of the worst. Hidrocity is one of the better levels in 3 and one of the few that allow for speed at some points without some shitty gimmick breaking the flow. If it were hard you could justify the complaint but it just isn't. Hell, the water part in CZ2 is arguably harder than anything in Hidro. And again, nobody's complaining that CZ is has water and is the 2nd level because you know what, it's a great fucking level and a slight ramp in difficulty and that's all that matters. Hell, 2 out of the first 3 levels in S2 are water levels and they're both a blast. It's Labyrinth (and the special stages) in S1 that gives water levels a bad rap and it's kind of unjustified since it'd be slow and annoying even without the water.

>>2595991

sonic adventure took the unique design charm away from sonic 3 and played its self for you.

CD is a cluster fuck and was never popular to begin with only popular to sonic fags born after it.

>>2596138
that's fine because S3&K is not fun to play

>>2596165

It was when I was its intended age group

>>2596178
See my problem with S3&K is that most of what it is is situations where in you are given a specific thing to do and only doing that specific thing will allow you to proceed. Sonic will become attached to a device with specific mechanics that exist only on that device, do one exact thing, and then move on until you encounter the next device. It's extremely gamey, even though there is no actual game to using them, everything stops, you do exactly what the game wants you to do, then you can proceed. There is almost never any skill involved in this.

Sonic Adventure, I think is fun, because it just does these things for you and you can keep hurling yourself around at high velocity while only paying attention to how fast you can go

Actually you know what, Sonic Adventure is the best sonic game period. 2D Sonic is shit. I only like Sonic CD for the music and the visuals.

>>2596207

>I liked sonic adventure because it played its self, leaving me with more time to draw my oc

>no sonic advance

objectively best 2D sonic

>>2596207
>shitty bloated story
>buggy as fuck
>no sense of momentum or speed
>fishing
>"Sonic Adventure is the best sonic game period"

>>2596225
Not retro, but yeah, the Advance games are really good. Underrated, even, compared to the Mega Drive games. They were pretty much perfect at capturing what was great about 2D Sonic.

>>2595986
>tfw you realize 2 is the best and also had the most involvement from STI
Nips don't know shit about going fast.

>>2596263
you could also interpret this as me saying that all the other sonic games are shit if you really want to

>>2588429
Was I a smart kid for figuring this out relatively fast or was everyone just fucking retarded?

Sonic CD

>>2596502

me and my friend tried everything on his megadrive

I didn't get back to it until I got the CD for pc

I think a lot of peoples controllers where just shit because with my keyboard I got easily passed it

>>2586521
Sonic 1 (SMS) and Sonic 2 (SG/MD).

>>2586521
Best 2D Sonic game would be best Sonic game by default. None of the 3D ones were better, for sure.

>>2596263
>SA1
>no sense of momentum or speed
SA1 isn't a good game, but it definitely feels fast.

it's actually stupid fun once you start abusing the broken spindash mechanics and just zip straight up cliffs and can spindash jump past half of the level and shit

>>2596371
fucking this
Advance 1 is almost as good as Sonic 2. Brilliant game.

>>2596207
>most of what it is is situations where in you are given a specific thing to do and only doing that specific thing will allow you to proceed. Sonic will become attached to a device with specific mechanics that exist only on that device, do one exact thing, and then move on until you encounter the next device.
>most of it
there's like, four levels where this happens
Marble Garden (tops), Carnival Night (barrel), Sandopolis (rappelling sections, switches), and Mushroom Hill (giant pulleys).

>>2595892
Sonic 3&K's midbosses were mostly decent.
some of them were better than the actual stage bosses

Boss design in Sonic is a wasted opportunity. I don't think there's been a particularly great non-final boss in the series, even to today.
best boss in the whole series is easily Doomsday Zone, where it delivers a great feeling of speed and tension and "oh fuck I need to keep enough rings to not die"

>>2595981
>that list
You. I like you.

not sure if I'd include Spring Stadium, but I haven't played 3D Blast in forever and probably won't anytime soon

None of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQhjJ0BLxT0
^Sonic fans. All of them.

>>2595924
>3 days ago

If it makes you feel better, I've been obsessing over this thread seeking validation.

>>2597195
well memed

>>2586521
Sonic Colors

>>2597195
I just imagine being this kid's parents and hearing this from the hallway, wondering how their kid turned out to be such a dweeb. Dad is probably sitting in the backyard drinking a beer, throwing a baseball to himself, wishing he had a daughter instead.

>>2597416
idk man

that was actually some pretty good video editing for a kid

his parents probably don't make him take ritalin

doubt he's ever really been beaten or abused or seriously neglected

I really doubt this kid has any serious problems in store for him other than how badly he's gonna get cucked in his future

all things strive for balance in life

>>2597451
I'd kill it if it was my son. The shame would be too much to bear.

>>2597465
you're on 4chan dude. im sure your dad is disappointed in you too.

>>2597478
I'm equally disappointed in him. It all balances out except he's dead. Miracles happen everyday.

S2&K is the best

>>2588448
I can still remember Sonic CD's opening theme. Sonic boom sonic boom sonic trouble keeps you running faster, or something.

>>2597493
he still fucked your girlfriend though

>>2594443
>dkc style graphics

Jesus, at least finish the game before you say stupid shit like that.

>>2595294
spinball sucks dude. mean bean machine is better.

>>2598214

I understand what he means.
Sonic 3 was released in 1994 around the same time DKC (and other "3D rendered" games) were being released.

I remember my first reaction as a kid when I popped up the Sonic 3 cart on my MD and looking at that big 3D Sonic in the title screen, I thought "wow, they're making Sonic more modern now..." but somehow, it felt creepy.
Then the in-game sprite of Sonic has a certain "roundness" to it, like they tried to make him a bit "3D-like"... hard to explain, but if you compare his sprite from S1, 2, CD and then to his sprite of Sonic 3, you can see they're really differents.
And the whole art direction is different too. Sonic 1 and 2 were more surreal, psychedelic, Sonic 3 is more "realistic", a lot more brown was put in the color palette. just compare Green Hill Zone and Emerald HIll Zone to Angel Island.

I still love Sonic 3 and I don't think it looks like DKC or even attempted it (Vectorman is a game from Sega that actually tried that), but it definitely changed the art direction the previous games in the series were going for.

>>2598218
It's literally Puyo Puyo 2. And I'm using the actual definition of the term.

>>2598225
Mean Bean was Puyo Puyo 1. And that game has quite a bunch of faults that got ironed out in Puyo Puyo 2 (garbage counters, ability to rotate falling blobs even when they are physically blocked from the sides).

>>2598224
It is fairly different, sure, but hey, if they didn't update things people would inevitably have complained.

As for Sonic's sprite, it certainly did change, but the only major differences were his shoes were rounder, his hands were bigger, and his eyes turned blue.

>>2598241
forgot pic.

>>2598229
Shit, you're right. I thought the NES version came before the SNES version. My mistake.

>>2598241
>and his eyes turned blue.

Nah, they were always black, until Adventure.

>>2598241
>>2598243

I would have liked it to become more psychedelic, like Chaotix, but oh well, some stuff from S3&K looks pretty, like Sky Sanctuary... still S1/2/CD have a better art direction IMO.

And I never liked how Sonic's eyes looks like they're crossed on his 3 sprite, he looks a lot more badass on 1 and 2.

>>2598263
Everyone always forgets about Chaotix. Its pretty decent but the controls are wonky.

>>2598263
I think CD is the best looking Sonic. Collision Chaos, Quartz Quadrant and Stardust Speedway are some of the best looking zones, IMO.

>>2598284
Herp, image please

>>2598224
>not psychedelic
>there's literally a giant mushroom zone

I know what you mean; I just thought it was pretty funny.

>>2598289

Agreed, Sonic CD is beautiful.

Basically Sonic 1 on LSD.

>>2598282
I was literally just playing it last night.

I have all the genesis OSTs on my mp3 player for driving music, so I don't ever actually forget any sonic games.

I think it and CD are tied for worst level design.

On the other hand I really like Chaotix's midi drums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7S7zgKnJno

>>2598318
>CD
>Bad level design
My favourite meme

>>2598321
You say that, but I'm someone who just never understood the point of it, and then slowly discovered other people online who felt the same way.

>It's more exploration-based, like other non-sonic platformers!

is what I assume the opposing POV is, but I honestly don't understand how you're supposed to time travel in half the stages. It's "run run run run okay almost, I'm flashing" wall/obstacle/spring/ramp and it's gone.

At least palmtree panic has those stupid spinny things that if you fenagle the d-pad a bit you can time travel, but I've given up trying to figure out how to do it on any stage other than Quartz Quadrant.

I need to watch like a pro playthrough on Youtube or something because I have to be missing something.

>>2598335

I sucked at Sonic CD at first, but later on I realized the level design is just diffferent, and not as bad as many people say. It has some issues, but so do all the other games in the series. Some levels on 3&K are really bad (carnival zone sucks, and not because of the barrel, that was never an issue to me, the whole zone is a big clusterfuck, bigger than anything on CD)

>It's "run run run run okay almost, I'm flashing" wall/obstacle/spring/ramp and it's gone.

Yeah, learning the levels layouts is important, you won't get a good future in all zones the first time you play the game.

>>2598346
>Some levels on 3&K are really bad

It might be because I've played that game a million times, but I just can't see it. There aren't any levels I don't like in 3&K except for (now that I'm trying to think of something) Knuckles's version of Carnival specifically.

>you won't get a good future in all zones the first time you play the game

I've gotten it by getting all the chaos emeralds rather than by time-travelling. I've only ever managed to legitimately pull it off in Palmtree Panic and Stardust Speedway (after spending way too much time on it)

Even accounting for it being "different" it's just clunky.

Collision Chaos's bumpers and flippers don't have the same polish as Sonic 2's, Palmtree Panic's the worst offender of "putting shit in your way when you're trying to go fast"

some parts of stardust speedway just make no sense, wacky workbench is a mess, metallic madness has a million of those stupid little half-pipes that you can't jump over because the ceiling's too low and can't roll through because there's spikes in them, and you handle like ass when you're mini.

Quartz Quadrant was alright, Tidal Tempest I really don't remember all that well.

Everything's just so clunky and feels haphazardly thrown together. There's obstacles everywhere, there aren't clear lines through the levels, and it's frustratingly difficult to go fast in a level called Stardust Speedway, which features details like things that make sparks that fly when you run fast through them.


Sonic's figure-8 sprite was completely wasted on Sonic CD, I wish S3&K had it instead.

Sorry for the rant, I probably sound like an autismo

>>2598361

Tidal Tempest is probably the best water level in any Sonic game (I don't consider Hydrocity much of a water level since you barely are underwater)

>>2598364
I should replay it sometime. Every time I try to remember it I remember Labyrinth zone instead.

I don't like Sonic 1 all that much, Sonic 2 was my first sonic game

>>2586527
This

bump

Sonic 2/Sonic 3&Knuckles/Sonic CD.
No need to choose the best, it's the holy trinity. Go play, maybe warm up with the original first.

bump for sonic containment thread

>>2600574

I think Sonic 1 also deserves to be there, all main Genesis games are good, even if they're not perfect.

>>2586874
>>2587017

My niggas; https://www.reddit.com/r/chemicalplantzone

>>2598282
>>2598318
Despite the shitty level design and the weird controls I actually really like Chaotix. Imo the environment and the music are what shines in it; forgetting that stuff just seems obscene.

But the level design is still fucking shit. Techno Tower, anyone?

>>2604932
Yeah, Chaotix looks and sounds fantastic. It's a tiny glimpse into what 32-bit Sonic could have been (I wouldn't really count the GBA and the Sonic Advance series), the special stages are some of my favorites, the new characters (and return of Mighty) were fun additions, Knuckles getting his own game was really cool, and you can't really hate them for being experimental and having what seemed like a fun idea on paper.

Unfortunately, level design is everything and what we got were chaotic levels that are almost impossible to memorize, no thanks to each zone having a ridiculous 5 acts with little to differentiate them. Few enemies and interesting obstacles, levels just felt like jumbled patterns of runways, platforms, half-loops, and puzzle switches. A good level has to feel distinct and memorable with recognizable landmarks. In Chaotix, they all blend together. After playing, you can't really remember one zone and it's level layouts from another, not one level really ever stood out in any way.

But the bosses were pretty good. The Robotnik ones, anyway. The final boss was big and neat looking but little other praise can be said.


Chaotix could've been awesome. I await the day somebody decides to hack it and make it awesome. I'd be fine with somebody using the same zones that are already in the game, cutting the number of acts down to two, and giving us quality over quantity.

>>2604932
Techno Tower isn't too bad, but Amazing Arena? Holy shit...

>>2600564
Fucking Christ, Sonic's hands are creepy.

>>2605873
Well, he does wear gloves usually, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLvgx44T-k4

>>2591192
That's what the homing shield is for.