/vr/ - Retro Games

no

seems unlikely

>>2551363
I think it would've been better in the longrun. Sonic before then was already a platformer with speed/momentum, so a game like that would've done enough to make it a decent platform, but also a decent sonic follow-up. Or just come off as generic, basically doing what other platformers did. "Do whatever Mario is doing"

>>2551383
Even a half baked M64 clone couldn't have been worse than 3D blast and then nothing for christ knows how long. The gap Between S3+K - Sonic Adventure was only 4 years, but the lack of a solid game in that time pretty much sank the series.

>>2551425
weird how 4 years back then seemed like a long time. Im getting old man :(

>>2551363
I reckon it might have. The sonic world section of jam was stated by Naka as a test for Sonic Adventure and iirc, adventure was originally slated to be a Saturn game but as the DC was in planning they canned it to go with better hardware.

If they had made some cool levels with sonic world section, used the chaos levels from 3dblast on Saturn (the only part programmed by Sonic team) AND released the game a year or two earlier they could've saved the Saturn. Imho.

Maybe one day we'll see a sufficiently good ROM hack that transforms the game into something greater using the hub world engine

>>2551426
Don't remind me, I just looked up when 3D Blast and Adventure came out to get the dates and I couldn't fucking believe it was ONLY 4 years. It feels like that jump between genesis to dreamcast should have been WAY longer. If Jam held people's attentions better the Saturn may have stayed a little more competitive and we might have seen some stronger staying power, and sega might still be alive today. I hope their next big move is a new console. ANYWAY.

It's been 4 years since Generations came out.

Where did the time go? I feel so old. No more summer holidays playing videogames feeling like I had my whole life ahead of me. Tfw basically 30 and time just keeps on speeding up and not in a good way.

Honestly I always felt that Mario 64 feels more like a Sonic game than Sonic Adventure did.

It's a heavily momentum/physics based game where you can use slow methodical jumps or utilize your full momentum and moveset so cross large sections quickly and stylishly. That's what Sonic is about to me, not necessarily going fast. I wish they could adapt that principle into a 3D game.

In fact I think a lot of successful 3D games remind me more of Sonic than the 3D Sonic games do. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater for one.

>>2551451
If you're going that route, there are a ton of fanmade 3D Sonic engines that function a hell of a lot better than the Jam hub world. Might as well cut out the middleman.

That 3D is pretty impressive for the Saturn. I really wish someone would have pushed it to it's absolute limits 3D wise, I want to see what it can really do in the right hands.

>>2552623
If I didn't know better I'd swear Sonic's torso is a pre-rendered sprite...

>>2551454
>I hope their next big move is a new console.
Sega is barely scraping by at the moment, they literally can't afford anything but Sanek games, ports and pachinko machines nowadays.
You should be glad if their next big move isn't filing for bankruptcy.

>>2552623
Look up the Shenmue demo, as well as Panzer Dragoon Saga. Those games are fucking pretty.

>>2551454
>>2552805
Consoles are so much like PCs now that I think the only reason they're still around is the legacy factor. Almost every perk that consoles had over PCs is gone now. I don't think any company outside the big three could release a new console now and get away with it.

>>2551363
>Do you think that a Banjo Kazooie style collectathon using the Sonic Jam engine would have saved the franchise?

Sonic Adventure was pretty much just that. We all know how it turned out.

>>2552862
Banjo Kazooie was an open world game. Sonic Adventure is painfully linear even compared to the 2D Sonic games. They really don't have a lot in common.

>>2552865
SA had a huge as hell overworld from where you could access the levels. As I recall there were a couple of stuff you could do there too, but not much.

It was basically Sonic Teams attempt at being open world.

>>2552876
Well the actual levels are super linear. I don't really count the hub because you barely do anything there.

>>2552865
SA1 had some small open ended areas where you could walk around and find secrets and stuff
it was mostly pointless but it was there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx-8Pt2d6Is

>>2552876
SA was partly open world, but the finding things was designed kind of poorly.

SA is actually a pretty good game. It got mainly 80%s and 90%s+ when it was released. It's just not that satisfying. It's personally not to my taste, but I know people who liked it a lot (of course, I'm talking about your average person in real life about 15 years ago so I wouldn't be surprised if they said it was crap now).

>>2552923
the dreamcast release was less bugged than the gamecube and other ports, believe it or not. most people played the ports

>>2552923
>It got mainly 80%s and 90%s+

That was mostly down to nostalgia, and finally seeing a 3d sonic game (the franchise wasn't yet a complete joke as it is today). The game was mediocre at most.

>>2552924
Even the DC port had shit controls, bugs, and awful camera.

I must be the only one who actually loved 3D Blast. The special stages were pretty lacking in the Genesis / MD version, but I thought the rest of the game was nonetheless solid. Sure, the game has a slower pacing, but it's not quite as bad as Sonic 1 or Sonic CD.

>>2552961
>but it's not quite as bad as Sonic 1 or Sonic CD.

>>2552961
It's okay, but isometric platforming is inherently awful

>>2551363
the problem isnt Sonic, the problem is Sega.
Sonic might as well be a bag with a dollar sign on it. I doubt they really care about integrity at this point. Im almost willing to bet half of the non-Genesis games started off as their own IP when someone is like "Hey this would be way better if it was Sonic instead!"

Just think of all the retarded Sonic games that have come out. Its the same thing that happened to Alex Kidd, it was their "mascot" at the time and instead of giving it a proper game they just swapped his sprite in and slapped his name on the box and called it a day.

>>2553000
I love the original alex kidd on sms and all but holy fuck the other games were bad. With the very worst case of wasted potential being the arcade, that shit's on quartet hardware and ended up nigh unplayable.

>>2553014
it's on the same hardware as quartet, monster boy, alien storm, SHINOBI

>>2553018
>alien syndrome
fix

>>2552961
I was with you until that final comparison.
I guess everyone is different, but you are probably the first one I see preferring 3d blast to 1.

I'm so glad I made good grades in school. Parents let me play Super Nintendo and Runescape all day without question.

>>2552614
I don't mean to sound like a dick but that's not the point of ROM hacking. You can't apply the same logic to Super Mario World or something.

>>2553014
Alex Kidd in Shinobi Wold was purdy gud

>>2552941
When it was released those graphics were amazing and even the shitty camera was excusable. I'm playing it through atm, and its shotting me to tears. Doesn't hold up to time so well.

>>2552941
>That was mostly down to nostalgia
>nostalgia for a game that was just released
okay

>>2554118
Nostalgia for finally being able to run around as Sonic after a five fucking year hiatus.

>>2554191
just like Duke Nukem

Why was the Sonic Jam hub so enjoyable?

Sonic would not work as a collectathon

>>2554201
wat

>>2554843

>>2554850
>collectothon where you only collect one thing

>>2554854
>what are chaos emeralds
Sonic could have worked as a 3D platformer collecting rings and chaos emeralds if it had an explorable hub world with exploitable side worlds and non-linearity. The people who designed it didn't know what they were doing.

>>2554854
I don't think you've seen the comicality of your statement.

So you mean to imply that a game where you originally collected something as you progressed wouldn't work as a game where you collect things (and assumedly, progress)?

>>2552961
>but it's not quite as bad as Sonic 1 or Sonic CD.

those are some FUCKING FIGHTING WORDS

>>2554894

Are you joking? I'm not that guy, but Sonic wasn't based on collecting rings. They were used to stay alive. There was no bonus for collecting them all. You could get a 1-up with 100, but that was purely optional. The game would have worked with a three-hit life bar or something and no rings at all.

>>2552646
It's prerendered lighting, which is fairly close.

>>2554923
>as you progressed
Thanks for reading what I wrote, and internalizing what I meant.

No, I realise the point of Sonic isn't collecting rings. However, the incentive you mentioned gives you the very reason why you would want to collect them. Optional, but it's how the system works.

Now, you really think an iconic in-game collectable item would be a bad idea for a collectathon game? Just because a collectathon isn't a platformer?

Okie dokie.

>>2554905
CWC, pls

>>2551363
No, because it wouldn't have been a good game. Why wouldn't it have been a good game? Because it would've been made by Sega. You know what would've saved the franchise? Sega making good Sonic games.

I tried a 3d version on Ps2 before, it was hard to play, and you did'nt found the Sonic spirit in it. So I don't think it couold be good...

>>2554843
Well it would be just another way of designing levels, instead of making them like circuits make them more like skate-parks, where each part has a different set of pools and slopes and platforms.
What would be even better is big leves with skate-park islands connected by circuit paths, in a non linear way and using verticality.
Sonic games saved.

>>2555149
I think you could probaby have made a Sonic game that was Crash Bandicoot style with short levels and collecting 2/3 types of thing per stage with hidden shit. It certainly could have helped th franchise head in a slightly different direction and survive the transition into 3d a little more.

>>2551363
Am I the only one that thinks Sonic World is extremely aesthetically appealing?

>>2551426
Well, yeah. Things you enjoyed as a kid is considered retro.

You old geezer.

Does Sonic Jam emulate well? I kinda want to try out Sonic World.

>>2560106
you dont get it son, 2012 was almost 4 years ago and it seems like yesterday. meawhile the gap between 94 and 99 was huge

>>2559752
No. Classic-era Sonic in 3D is great. I wish they had stuck with the The Fighters style models for Adventure.

>>2560201
All the models in sonic fighters are perfect. AM2 was the best.

>>2560207
They have horrendous flat shading.

>>2560208
so did mario 64 dude. flat shading means higher polys.

>>2554062
it was another game called Shinobi Kid at first but hey LETS JUST MAKE IT ALEX KIDD INSTEAD!

>>2554875
chaos emeralds are not a mandatory thing

>>2560213
>Mario 64
>flat shading

>>2560208
i think they look great, even now

>>2560220
Thanks for proving his point, bro.

>>2560232
That's Gouraud shading.

>>2560252
Wow you must be a computer engineer or some shit.

>>2560267
Well what the fuck is it?

>>2560275
Whoa easy there poindexter I can't understand nerdy talk.

>>2560279
If it's not Gouraud, what is it?

>>2560297
Well I'm sorry not all of us have a computer science degree to know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>2560304
I give up.

>>2560297
flat shaded still looks better

>>2560309
I think they decided to use that style as a throwback to virtua fighter.

>>2560208
Yeah, but they do have light sourcing and a very high polycount.

>>2560314
at that point it wasnt a throwback

>>2552994
>isometric platforming is inherently awful

In general I agree, but I can tell you've never played Grunty's Revenge for GBA

>there are people on /vr/ who think there was any flat shading used in this picture

>there are people on /vr/ who think that not every ounce of the environment in this picture barring Mario is textured

>tfw you played sonic world once at a circuit city circa 1996/1997
>tfw it was already booted up, so you assumed that's what sonic jam was
>tfw always pined for a sega saturn so you could play "sonic 64"
>tfw discover sonic world is actually a stupid minigame and there is no "sonic 64"

>>2551363
I think that there's 3 HUGE problems with your theory

>1: Sega doesn't spend lots of time developing ideas. They basically make brain dead action games. Sure, some of the best, depending what era we're talking about, but they rarely spent the time balancing or pacing games enough to make good adventure games out of them,. Case in point: Sonic Adventure.
>2: the Sonic fan base has almost always been driven by the "gotta go FAST" thing. That was the big selling point over Mario for many, MANY years. Or at the very least, Sonic fans found Sonic to be more fun, because it was faster paced. So a slower paced adventure game trying to save the series would have been a huge joke.
>3: the Sonic Jam engine just wasn't all that, honestly. They could have done something more substantial with it than they did, sure, but not save the series. Not by a long shot. Not when PSX and N64 both had better looking and smoother playing games that were faster paced.

I mean, they COULD have pulled something amazing out of their ass, but that would have required Sega to pull their HEAD out of their ass first.

The sad truth is that Sega and Sonic failed because Sega is a shitty company in many, many ways and Sonic is a one trick pony. And that's coming from a guy who grew up with his Genesis practically attached to his hands.
If a lifelong obsessive Sega fanboy like me sees the forest for the trees, then maybe it's time to just let the "what if"s go and just play the good games for what they are, move on and forget about what could have been. That's what I did.

>>2560640
There are people who think that?

>>2560640
Wtf I'm sorry m8 I can't speak nerdy.

>>2560692
Will you fucking stop already?

>>2560686
I thought shenmue/yakuza were pretty good at exploring, no?

>>2560696
You should get laid, son

>>2560686
>character's name is taken from the term "supersonic speed"
>partner's name is a corruption of "miles per hour"

>not meant to go fast

>>2560703
:^)

>>2560304
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouraud_shading

"Gouraud shading, named after Henri Gouraud, is an interpolation method used in computer graphics to produce continuous shading of surfaces represented by polygon meshes."

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

>>2560703
>>2560814
Samefag.

>>2559752
Classic Sonic aesthetic is best Sonic. Edginess and voice acting really hasn't worked well for the games at all. S3&K's story is much better told through its few dialog free cutscenes than all attempts made by the Adventure games.

>>2560863
I get it, you're smart. Please stop making fun of us without science degrees

>>2560940

>>2555149
Stop being so passive aggressive. It's obnoxious.

>>2560424
Rare have always been the masters of isometric platforming ever since Knight Lore.

>>2561263
right click > inspect element