/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2521480
I used Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen FO! to learn basic hiragana and katakana, did it quite passively though

I've heard of people learning English through games but not the other way around.

I suppose it's possible though.

>>2521480
>Spanish
How would you accomplish that through video games? All games from Spain usually come out in English only

>>2521486
There are games translated in Spanish like a Japanese game in English. I already took Spanish too, but this is to further it and master it. I also know enough words to rely on context, so that's a plus.

English through Pokemon.
I upped my reading skills in Japanese through the Saturn Slayers games, among others.

>>2521484
Did you play with a dictionary so you can understand what was being said? Or was it entirely to become comfortable with the simple kana?

>>2521489

I'd say for Japanese, go for it but for Spanish, it's probably not the best idea to learn the language from the Spanish translation of Japanese text

getting off topic here but duolingo is a good site for learning from, it's gamified with you gaining XP as you progress

https://www.duolingo.com/

there's a Spanish coach game for DS too

>>2521531
>Spanish translation of Japanese text
Isn't it often a Spansish translation of an English translation of Japanese text?

For Japanese-English I recommend checking out the Emit series because they allow you to go back and forth between English and Japanese.
Otherwise just check out RPGs and adventures. For windows games you can try text hookers and otherwise there's Kanji Tomo for OCR. Just don't overuse those tools and try to decipher the text first.

The Civilization series is great for vocabulary and if you already know your way around the UI it's very easy to adjust. It will also teach you some grammar seeing how the different messages that appear are said differently, if you know them in English you can compare and piece together what's going on.

This is /vr/ but modern games might prove better for listening practice, it's hard to compete with large open world games that have fully voiced dubs and translated text like the Elder Scrolls series or Assassins Creed.

Pokemon is a good starting position if you've played it before, simple dialogue, if you know the moves it's easy to translate many of them directly over to learn new words. Any game where you're introduced to the same words over and over can teach you 100+ new words if played regularly in a different language.

when they pokemon start using kanji?
the gba era is still only kana

>>2521587
I think, they started that in Gen V. Iirc, they either displayed kanji with furigana or you could turn them off. I'm not sure which one it was.

>>2521603
no, the alternatives are kanji and no kanji. the pokemon games don't have furigana at all.

if you want to have furigana for practicing the readings of kanji or whatever unfortunately pokemon isn't it.
however I believe you're usually better off going without furigana and looking in a dictionary when you don't understand. the kanji tend to stick better and faster.

>>2521639
Wouldn't Furigana need a higher resolution? Nintendo handhelds haven't advanced that much in that regard.

Generally I'll agree that furigana don't help much. You just end up reading them all the time and ignore the kanji unless it's a homophone.

>>2521704
the way it works on some nds games, you click on top of a kanji word with the stylus and it becomes kana

>>2521558
>Isn't it often a Spansish translation of an English translation of Japanese text?
That was only the case in the early 2000s, when translating games to Spanish was starting to become the norm. Nowadays 99% of Japanese games in Spanish are localized from the source material, not English.

>>2521486
>All games from Spain usually come out in English only
What? Almost every video game relased in Spain is available in Spanish. Only niche JRPG games like Disgaea or SMT come in English.

>>2521485
So, games learning English though humans?
Or what do you mean by "other way around"?

Yeah, English. French or Italian would be a nice next stop to me but fuck my life, I lost my desire to know more years ago

>>2522357
I think he meant games developed in Spain like Commandos.

>tfw started early enough
>will know 10+ languages before I'm 30

>>2522410

pls learn japanese and translate Racing Lagoon

>>2522378
Native English speakers learning a foreign language through games.
The thing is that English is omnipresent and there are plenty of games only available in English so training the English everyone learned in school via games is common.

>>2522446
yeah basic grammar is grinded into your skull at high school so you really just need to build some vocab
when you're learning japanese, you need to go out of your way to practice japanese, good luck finding a benefactor native

>>2522450
It depends on whether you want to learn reading it or speaking it.
Very few people learning Latin actually learn to speak it.

>>2522450
I dunno, I've learned English from zero by playing video games. By the time I was in high school I spoke and wrote it more fluently than our teachers and I didn't even need any textbooks. Though you are right, Japanese is a completely "alien" language that would need someone to give your the basics, just playing with a vocabulary wouldn't cut it.

>>2522463
I learned a lot of Japanese by watching animation and drama. The main thing you need to actively learn is the script.

>>2522472
Not that anon, but you'd learn by basically picking it up? Like how they use certain grammar such as の

It's impossible to learn Japanese text from Japanese games. It just looks like scribbly lines. Even with voiced games it's probably impossible. I only know random Japanese phrases thanks to subtitles and remembering certain stuff translates to something.

>>2522536
You definitely should learn the kana beforehand and common Kanji shouldn't hurt. You can however pick up additional Kanji and vocabulary by reading.

>>2522536
It's way more practical and easier to learn by reading it (i.e., games) than by listening to it.

>>2521480
I've learned English and German (both not my native languages) through video games, German was mainly through video games. But the problem is you don't learn that much from video games if there aren't many cutscenes, what you need to do is listen to words being spoken and read subtitles. Since there weren't many video games like that when I was a kid, I only learned how to spell stuff, while cartoons thought me how to pronounce. So if you want to learn a language, you have to play games with lots of talking.
So it's very possible for you to learn, Spanish should be easy overall, but Japanese might be a bit tough. While it's not difficult to learn phrases, it is very difficult to learn their writing. For example, I can talk (semi-terrible) Japanese, but I can't spell shit.

>>2521480
>MooooOOOmmm! I'm not just goofing off, I'm learning a language! One day I'll become fluent and become successful in Nippon, you'll see!

Keep dreaming.

>>2522612
im too old to even dream with that 8(

>>2522625
In all seriousness, if learning a new language--including those comprised of entirely different sets of characters compared to your native language--was as simple as playing games (or reading books, etc) in that language, there would be no need for language courses/instructional aids, etc. It's just not practical.

Perhaps they could be used to REINFORCE language learning, but even then you'd have to have quite a bit of learning under your belt for all but the most basic of menus.

>>2522649
Besides having to stop every 2 seconds to look shit up on a dictionary is just not very fun.

>>2521480
I learned a lot of my Japanese from games. It can work but it's not the most efficient way. In particular you won't get the speaking/listening skills. Even today I can read far more than I can understand spoken or even speak. I can probably write at least as much as I can speak.

>>2521480
I would not recommend you to learn Spanish from games. Usually games translated to Spanish is filled with disgusting Spain slang they don't use in Latin America.

Créeme, por eso no juego los juegos en español.

>>2522557

You need guides though. You can't learn from just staring at Japanese games on your own

>>2523159
No shit. I did it with a dictionary in my lap, before online stuff like Jisho. Point being that reading is going to help you learn way faster than watching anime subs (which is mostly useless as a learning method).

>>2522494
>の

Isn't that just "of"?

ps: know nothing about Jap but I do recognise that scribble

>>2523224
It means quite a few things. I believe it's often used as a possessive. I saw used as on, of, and another one that I can't quite remember.

>>2523218

OP made it sound like they wanted to do it with no help, just the traditional way of learning by yourself

>>2522649
There are a lot of courses/aids offered for things you could simply learn by yourself and they often don't teach you what you really need.

>>2523608
Oh, okay, video games will teach you Japanese then OP carry on

>>2523616
You'll certainly learn how to play video games in Japanese.

>>2523106
>usually games translated to Spanish is filled with disgusting Spain slang they don't use in Latin America
That's because almost every single video game translation in Spanish is done in Spain, and a "neutral" localization is a butchered mess with no charm or quality.
You do realize they sound disgusting to you the same way Latin American slang seems strange to us? It's shit like this that ruins threads about translations, dubs, etc.

Besides, many Nintendo games nowadays have two Spanish localizations: European and American. However, the American localization is done from English rather than Spanish; they're still good, though.

I wouldn't recommend some Nintendo games to learn Spanish or any other language on a basic level, though. They use a lot of slang, expressions, cultural references, unusual words, puns, etc.

>>2524591
Meant from English rather than Japanese, ugh.

By the way, if you're curious, some wikis like the Mariowiki have a "names in other languages" section in most articles. It's pretty fun seeing how they adapt all those meaningful names in every language.

Anyone have recommendations for good games to play in French? Or recommendations on where to get French ROMs?

I took 3 years of French and it would be cool to see if it's still there

>>2521480
I had to learn english to solve some of the puzzles.

>>2522560
What kind of German games did you play? Classic German genres would be building games and I'm not sure how much you can learn from those.

>>2524601
IIRC the french subtitles in Xenoblade were kinda good? Some of the terminology changed a bit to fit a bit more in the french script, ending up with weird stuff like High Entia turning into Hayenthes and such.

>>2524658
High Entia were Éntidas in Spanish, but most terminology was relatively similar. Everything was so well adapted that Telethia sounded out of place (Teletia or Telecia would've fit more).
Apparently the Italian localization is the most "localized", or at least more similar to the Japanese script while making everything sound natural in Italian.

Nowadays only niche indie games have bad translations in FIGS. There's no reason to worry about quality.

I would recommend OFF because it was originally made in French.

well truthfully I started learning english by reading win95 error popups to decide on OK or CANCEL, and they were plenty

being 10yo i guess the brain really absorbs it all, and i would look up random words whenever windows made me open the dictionary

in months i was "speeching english" in command&conquer online

with tons of english music we are exposed to, and CD cases coming with lyrics, i would read that with a dictionary in hand

also, silent hill had subtitles if i recall correctly

then by win98 i was using english to listen and read Age of Empires campaign narration with a moderate confort, and didnt take long for me to start watching movies with english subtitles (dvds came with english spanish portuguese, and cable would have portuguese/english subtitltes and audio)

i would estimate some 50-100 movies that by the end that year i could simply use the language in written form without effort,

that said, with teamspeak gaming and all that, still today i will hesitate before pronouncing complex phrases, but i guess that would only change if i were to take a prolonged vacation outside of brasil


TLDR, for me it was ENGLSH, via:

win95
beatles
C&C
silent hill

in 3 years

>>2525307
>
might have been resident evil, or other similar.. never became a fan of the genre

>>2522649
>>2522652

you totally can, and it really is that simple

ofc being diff chars, you would have to forcefully memorize cyrilic / kana + 200 basic kanji / whatever arabs use

and in all cases read a panphlet on basic structures of that language

>>2523106
yeah

started playing diablo official blizzard translation to spanish, and even being a portuguese speaker, i saw something was off
OP, best bet is music/media natively produced, after a minimal build of vocubulary, in which games slower pace can be useful if also natively produced

... so i guess japanese is a good pick with its extensive collection of games and anime,

too bad they don't have good music, as you can listen to the same song dozens of time and sing along, to isolate the training of pronunciation.

>>2525357
Says the kid who's only language is Amerifat.

>>2525669
>who's

>>2525371
>too bad they don't have good music
Not being a weeaboo but there are some good songs unrelated to vidya/anime. Yousei Teikoku (though, they have a few songs that were used in Anime, at least to my knowledge), Hyadain (only the newer songs have been used in Anime), Dir En Grey (not that great imo but not really bad).
I'm sorry for only listing "main stream" artists, I'm not that much into Japanese music.
Then again, music is a pretty subjective matter.
But saying that Japanese music is inherently bad is plain wrong.

>>2526008
You couldn't even try finding one band that DOESN'T do anime songs?

>>2526023
What does that change? They have a lot more music without anime relation than with.
Also, what's wrong with a group that has songs that have been used in several anime?
Like I wrote earlier, I'm not that much into Japanese music myself.

>>2524591
>They use a lot of slang
That's selling it short.
NoE's localization team loves slang and woolseysm more that commie and underwater together.

It's not all bad, since the translations themselves tend to be good, and kids wouldn't get the english/japanese references.

Beats what 8-4 does, at least, even if they are kinda the same.

>>2526074
Yeah, Mario RPGs have slang in every single line of text.
It's normal, though. Can you imagine them with bland, "neutral" text translated literally from Japanese without adapting all the puns and everything?
IMO Nintendo games are the best example of scripts that have to be completely localized. There's no charm otherwise, and it's aimed especially at kids; you have to adapt and naturalize basically everything.

Personally I love it, and I dunno why someone would dislike a Mario translation in their own language.

Nintendo's localizations are basically what inspired me to study translation.

>>2521710
That sounds reasonably useful as long as you don't you around clicking words before trying to read them.

>>2526008
>Dir en grey
My nigga

>>2522649

there's no shortcuts to study. that said, immersion can speed up learning and make it easier.

>>2523452
Don't forget it works like an 's as well.

>>2521492
Nah I just knew character names and deduced japanese letters represented english syllables

>>2521480
From experience, it won't work with languages that have ideographic writing systems, such as Chinese or Japanese, the reason being that you can't sound out an unfamiliar character in your head just by looking at it, and can only guess its meaning.

It'll work really well with languages using Roman letters. If you want to do Korean or something you better make sure you have a good handle on the alphabet first

>>2525669
english isnt my mother language, and what was your comment even supposed to mean:?!

>>2521480
Not really the language but playing Pokemon Red as a kid gave me basic vocabulary since I was searching for every word and figured it would be easier to write them down and remember them than to search for the same words again and again. I was about eight years old then. After that I expanded my vocabulary with Gothic and The Elder Scrolls, got grammar down in school and then began reading books in English. At high-school I figured I would try to think in English too and it kind of stayed with me.

>>2521710
well, in pokemon all the text is on the upper screen however

>>2532762
It's supposed to mean that you don't know what you're talking about. Are you trying to prove your English skills are poor by not understanding that?

>In all seriousness, if learning a new language--including those comprised of entirely different sets of characters compared to your native language--was as simple as playing games (or reading books, etc) in that language, there would be no need for language courses/instructional aids, etc. It's just not practical.

(...)

>Says the kid who's only language is Amerifat.

(...)

>It's supposed to mean that you don't know what you're talking about.


so i did learn english by playing videogames and reading books, but apparently i should apply for language courses/instructional aids, etc.
because my english is obviously lacking since you make no sense to me.

>>2538131
Good idea. Your level of English comprehension is clearly lacking. It might be fine for reading the start menus on games but not enough to understand simple sentences a 6 year old could.

>>2538771
Says the normie who's only language is muricano

>>2539095
Says the kid who doesn't know the difference between American and English.

>>2540890
Of course I know that. American is a speech disorder, while English is a language.

>>2531902
>it won't work with languages that have ideographic writing systems
what is a kanji dictionary, such as Chinese or Japanese

>>2531902
>From experience, it won't work with languages that have ideographic writing systems, such as Chinese or Japanese, the reason being that you can't sound out an unfamiliar character in your head just by looking at it, and can only guess its meaning.
what is a kanji dictionary

>>2521480
>Japanese
It can be done.

>English
Depending on the game, yes for simple words.

>Other languages
Everything that is a good example is not /vr/ unless it's a fan translation, and more have been coming out lately. Official translations outside of Japan and America are more often than not the most horrid things.

German Secret of Mana for example:
>translator was kept from learning Japanese by the people he was hired by
>when those giving him the script heard about this, they gave him a barely readable engrish version of the script
>translator was told to "make it funny"

>>2540968
>>2531902
what is romaization, for chinese theres even the 4 tones symbology with roman alphabet diacritics, you can sound any chinese ideogram

>>2521480
I lurn da inglich.
Tanq u usa, nau y emigreit.

>>2540980
There are a few German RPGs like Albion or Realms of Arkania. Maybe some adventures as well.