/vr/ - Retro Games

4 or 6 is probably the best leaping-on point. And since you don't like "badgering" I'll leave it at that.

Play 6 it's the only good one

>>2503462
1 allows you to choose your classes at the beginning of the game and it's probably the hardest in the series except maybe 3.

2 is one of the worst games ever made and should be avoided.

3 has customizable classes, but is basically just a harder and less fun version of 5.

4 (called 2 on the SNES) is about as linear as it gets, but is pretty well made and recommended.

5 has one of the best class systems of any JRPG and is recommended.

6 (called 3 on SNES) is probably the overall best in terms of characters, gameplay, and atmosphere and is recommended.

7 is not for everybody because it was where things started to get extremely clichéd, but it's very popular and most people would recommend it.

Tactics is basically just Tactics Ogre: Easy Mode, but it's still fun.

Everything after that is... questionable at best.

>>2503495
Not OP, but can you still tell about your thoughts about the entries after 7?

>>2503495
>Includes Tactics
>Doesn't include 9
oi m8. 9 Is one of the best ones, and since it's the homage game it would actually be a very good starting point for OP.

>>2503462
Play 6, then 5 and fuck the rest

Just don't play any of them. I can already tell you're just going to bitch about them no matter what.

>>2503462
Start with 6 (3 on SNES)

>>2503507
Yeah but all the charm of 9 is the constant callbacks to the previous entries. Take that away and the game becomes horribly dull.

>>2503506
They suck. 8 is embarrassing, 9 is boring, 10 is better than anything since, 10 part 2 is better than anything else post-10, Tactics 2 is kinda just mediocre, 11 is a MMO and I haven't played it because MMOs suck, 12 is Final Fantasy in name only and is a blemish on the series' legacy, 13 is glorified interactive anime and is pretty much everything wrong with modern JRPGs, 14 is a MMO so fuck it I'm not wasting my time with that shit, and 15 is going to be an action-RPG which I suppose is interesting in concept but the series track record is so bad at this point that I wouldn't expect anything from it.

>>2503507
Eh...

>>2503520
This guy gets it.

>>2503520
It's got a compelling story, an emersive atmosphere, very likeable characters, and quite possibly the best soundtrack in the franchise. You're just a faggot.

>>2503531
Not him, but I think the game has a lot of charm and would still be appealing without understanding the callbacks.

That said, I would recommend OP starts with either the DS remake of III, or either V or VI. VI if he thinks he may get into the story, since I think it's the most competent at that in the series. Otherwise III or V as they're the most mechanically fun.

Personally I love II, but it's a bad representative and most people don't like it.

>>2503520
but most people didn't get the callback the first time they played since the majority of final fantasies still hadn't come out of japan at the time

>>2503571
This. Remember, FF7 was the first FF game for so many people. They trashed 8 for the simple reason that it wasn't 7, and if they even bothered to buy 9 I imagine they disliked it for the same reason.

>>2503529
I think 8 is more up to the individual. It's probably the game that has split the fan base the most. Some like yourself despise it, others really like it.

>>2503583
He also thinks 10 was better than every FF before it and that XII is trash so his opinions in general are garbage tier anyways.

>>2503589
This. Anyone who thinks X-2 is the pinnacle of the series is pretty pants on head.

>>2503589
No, he's implying X is better than everything that came after it which is arguable because yes, you could make a case to say XII is much better.

>>2503520
I agree. It was the first one I played and I just didn't find it fun. After playing I and VI and Tactics it was more enjoyable.

Op, play VI. It's the game I should have started with and it has a great story.

>>2503595
>>2503529
>10 part 2 is better than anything else post-10

The guy is talking shit, but if you're gonna call him out at least read what he said properly.

>>2503602
My bad, I read it wrong as well. Either way you slice it is pretty idiotic though.

>Everyone recommending VI before IV
what the fuck is wrong with you

>>2503462
play IV

>>2504129
IV is the worst game in the series. It combines almost no character customization with an extremely rudimentary story and pancake flat characters.

>>2503495
>2 is one of the worst games ever made and should be avoided

Or possibly you just don't know how to play it. I've beaten the game 6 times now, and no complaints here.

2's mechanics are unconventional compared to later FF staples, but it's by no means broken. You don't *have* to hit your party members to level up. Insisting on doing it anyway, and then turning around to complain about how broken the game is, is a rather invalid point. Just play the game the way it's supposed to be played.

Honestly, I wish they had removed the ability to target your own characters with physical or magical attacks in the remakes. That might have put a stop to all the criticism. The game is otherwise very similar to the SaGa series, and I don't hear anyone complaining about SaGa's mechanics. The main difference is that you can't hit your own characters to increase their stats in those games.

OP should play Final Fantasy 5 first unless it's le ebin retro story he's after in which case 6.

>>2504137
FFIV's got possibly the best atmosphere/setting and music of any game in the series. There's nothing wrong with the story.

>>2504190
There's nothing "wrong" with the story, but there's nothing great about it either. Which is about average for an FF, but the problem with IV is that it doesn't have a lot else going for it.

>>2504137
Holy shit, people really think 4 is the worst in the series? That's an opinion you honestly have?

I bet VI is your favorite, too

>>2503462
>where should I start with this crap?
You obviously must start out with _MY_ favorite one or the one _I_ started out with. Seriously this is the answer most people will give to you because their favorite FF is the only good one, all others are shit and their opinion is the only correct one. While IV, VII or X are probably the best starting points you honestly should just do some basic research on the titles and try the one that seems most interesting YOU out.

>Will playing the NES ones be an enjoyable experience without any sort of fond feelings for this series?
If you grew up with NES; Yes. If you didn't you probably are better of with the newer ports/remakes of them.

>What are the distinguishing features and themes for each game?
FFI's distinguishing feature is the job system and NOT being able to change the jobs you chose at beginning.
FFII's distinguishing feature is SaGa like stat gain system and decent story and characters for a game from the 80s.
FFIII's distinguishing feature is the job system and being able to change the jobs you chose at beginning.
FFIV's distinguishing feature is trying to combine FFII's focus on story and characterization with job classes from FFI and FFIII. However the characters are stuck with their jobs.
FFV's distinguishing feature is once again the job system where you are able change jobs at any time and being able to combine abilities learned from your previous ones to your current class.
FFVI's distinguishing feature is becoming a WRPG for the latter half of the game at least in a non-linear exploration sense. Also FFVI started the darker, more serious tone the series has had ever since while the first 5 games had more lighthearted one with stories about elemental crystals.
FFIX's distinguishing feature is trying to be a 3D version of FFIV.
As for FFVII, FFVIII and FFX they basically only differ in their character customization systems and otherwise they are your basic but well done JRPGs.

>>2504236
As for themes:
FFIII's theme is "light is not necessarily good, darkness isn't necessarily evil"
FFVI's theme is love in it's various forms
FFVII's seems to be dealing with loss(es) and redemption
FFVIII's theme is growing the fuck up, fate and not being able to go against your and a love story worse than Twilight
FFIX's is live and death and finding a meaning for your live

As for the rest of the games I can't really think of a theme they are based around.

>>2504210
It's a got a solid story, great characters, great music, and a great setting. Yes, it's linear as hell and no, the characters are not customizable. Other than that, I can't find much wrong with it. To me it's one of the most memorable FF games.

It's my favorite FF game, just narrowly ahead of VI and I, but I'm trying to be objective here. I can't fathom how someone could call it the worst game in the series.

>>2504212
VI is up there, but isn't my favorite. IX, III, V, II, VI, I, VII, VIII, IV is how I personally rank them. You're free to feel otherwise though, that's the joy of opinions.

>>2504250
I find the story and characters flat and boring, even for an FF game. The setting is also one of the least creative in my opinion. But again, opinions. I'm glad it speaks to you and I'm sure you will take one look at my preferred order and scoff as well which is totally cool. No need for us all to agree like some freaky hivemind.

>>2504267
I might value the music more than you. The music in FFIV plays a lot into the atmosphere of the game for me, and how immersed I can get. Would I say the setting is "creative"? I don't know, it's certainly more creative than something like FFI. But it's just a nice fantasy setting.

What order did you play the games in? Did you grow up with an NES, SNES, etc.? Just curious.

>>2504291
That's fair, I've never been much of one for music period. Though the FF games do have some of my favorite music in them and IV is certainly included in that, it's never a major factor in how much a game appeals to me.

I grew up on NES yeah, I pretty much played them in their released order over here. I tried II, III and V on emulators a little way back when but didn't get into them much at the time. V is the only one I've beat purely on emulator because the PS1 port sucked so hard and crashed on me repeatedly. III I've only ever beat the DS version.

I should also note though, that I like the Phantasy Star games more than the FFs and that's where more of my nostalgia lies. Also the Lunars, especially Eternal Blue.

>>2503491
lol

>>2503495
>2 is one of the worst games ever made and should be avoided.
I can see why some people might think that, but it's really a bit unfair, the leveling up system that levels up stats for what ever you use the most is a but unorthadox and takes some getting used to but once you do it's not a bad game.

>>2503462
The NES ones (1-3) are pretty much as hardcore and hardmode as you would get. Sometimes its due to being genuinel difficult, sometimes its because they're a bit grindy, sometimes its because the systems in place are fairly obtuse (such as your characters not auto-targeting a new enemy after it dies, providing wasted turns).

4 is pretty grindy at times.
5 I feel is objectively the best SNES one since it has a tight narrative that doesn't 180 on itself like a lot of the others (4, 6, somewhat 7 and 8, 9 etc). It has the job system, which allows for a lot of customization and is genuinely fun to use and play around with, it also only has 5 usable characters which feels really good.

6 I feel is massively over rated. It tried to do a lot of new things but it feels incredibly forced. Its very story focused and in my opinion the scenario is lame and the esper system fails in comparison to the job system and the later materia systems in FF7 or Junction in FF8. Too many characters and a lot of them aren't different enough (or good enough) to justify using over the good ones. All it has going for it is that its the prettiest SNES one.

FF7 I feel is actually objectively one of the better ones. The narrative is fairly tight and rarely loses focus. Your exp curve is good and you rarely have to grind. The Materia system is really cool and customizable and allows you to easily transfer your accumulated power between party members. The graphics kind of suck, but it makes up for it in a lot of other ways like fun minigames and being pretty campy.

FF8 is breakable as fuck. It has a really fun minigame (Cards) which you can use to power up your characters. Junction is the most exploitable system in any FF to date. The narrative is fairly tight but can get a bit obtuse. Many people feel its stupid but if you're paying attention a lot of things tie together well. Enemies level with you and since junction is so exploitable, it can benefit you to stay at low level.

>>2504382
9's a piece of shit thats super slow, and really really boring. I've never gotten off the first disc.

10 is pretty decent. Its sphere grid system isn't particularily good or fun, and it has a reputation for its laughable voice acting and having cutscenes every 10 steps. but otherwise its alright.

11 is a pretty hardcore MMO.

12 is a game that fans will hate but if you're into logic or programming is pretty fun. Definitely a bit slow to start though.

13 series I didn't play or get into.

14 is a fairly decent MMO.

Havent played 15.

Final Fantasy Tactics is easily one of the best games on the playstation. With a really good campaign and story and a lot of customization.

the tldr;

I would recommend 1, 5, 7, 8 and tactics.

>>2503596
when he says X-2, he was talking about what the trolling guy called "10 part 2", not XII, it's a separate spin off game.

>>2504391
>>2503529
same trolling /v/ fag detected

>>2503462
If you like DQ and Grandia I would recommend 4/6 if you want a good 2d experience. 9 would be the best for a 3d experience. Someone said you need to play other games in the series to enjoy 9, but that's not true. 9 was my first FF and one of the first JRPGs that I played around 11 years old when it first came out and I fell in love with the games world and as such became an avid fan of the series and the genre. 9 is also the most similar to the games you've played of all the 3d FFs.

>>2504427
Yeah no. Fuck off.

>>2504432
fuck off, the first few FF games (which you have probably never played because you are probably one of those idiots that refuse to play the pre-snes games and hype the later ones to death) are more like DQ than linear as fuck 4 and 6 are.

>>2504436
well either way, you are still a dickhead

>>2504445
Why because you're a FF9-fag?

FF9 is the only FF I haven't been able to power through and beat. Its just not fun to play.

>>2504447
>I don't like game so no one else is allowed to like game
also, is it actually a thing to hate people that like FF9 now?

>>2504445
>>2504456
Top guy is the one who resorted to ad-hominem. He didn't even provide a counter-argument as to why he believes my opinions to be wrong/.

>>2504440
That's nice

>>2504382
>sometimes its because the systems in place are fairly obtuse (such as your characters not auto-targeting a new enemy after it dies, providing wasted turns).

ironically ff1 teaches you not to waste damage by spreading out your targeting. If you have a character hit a 100 hp monster for 50 damage and another character hit for 20 damage you've turned a 2 hit monster into a 3 hit one. This is true regardless

>5 I feel is objectively the best SNES one since it has a tight narrative that doesn't 180 on itself like a lot of the others

Yeah 5 is really underrated, I think also people forget the characters have a lot of charm to them even if the writing isn't the most expanded upon.

>>2504464
>opinions
>wrong
see, this is why you are a moron

>>2504476
*true regardless of which targeting system

I really didn't care for FF9 myself, even though I did go out of my way to finish it. The battles are really slow-paced with all the lengthy movement and casting animations. The whole ATE system was gimmicky and annoying, because watching one event meant having to skip another. I didn't like the forced character class roles reminiscent of FFIV. The story and world design are quite linear. You're pretty much funneled from one area to the next. There's a wealth of side-quests available, but a lot of them disappear inexplicably if you take too long to start them. The Excalibur II quest was just absurd.

>>2503571
You've got a funny definition of "majority."

>>2503578
>Remember, FF7 was the first FF game for so many people.
people that actually believe this are complete morons, the first FF game was massively popular in it's day as was the 2 SNES games that were released in the west. Just because you just because you and all the other FF7 idiots were too young to remember this doesn't mean it didn't happen.

>>2504551
Final Fantasy 7 has sold 10 million copies. That's more than 4 and 6 combined. The game was extremely popular and brought the series to the mainstream. The game brought in tons of people who were unfamiliar with the series and the genre. Whether you like it or not, Final Fantasy VII will be the game that the highest percentage of people had their first exposure to the series.

>>2504605
While this is may be true, I'd also consider that CD's are inherently more fragile and breakable then carts and as a result certain individuals may have bought multiple copies.

>Source: I went through 3 FFT discs
>Original black label: Birthday present
>Due to being a retarded kid, having friends, dogs and shit running around my copy broke.
>20 bucks for a greatest hits copy
>Same shit goes down, find another in a bargain bin for 5.

All the copies I bought were brand new. I did eventually find a really good CIB Black Label which is my copy now.but it has been my single most played PS1 game. Even back as a kid in my preteen/teen years I probably dumped a thousand hours into it.

>>2504629
While this may be true, it sounds like you're a retard.

>>2504629
I have never had to rebuy a disc based game that I bought brand new. It sounds like you just suck at taking care of your things.

>>2504629
I'm actually the anti-FF7 person, but you are just grasping at straws, to suggest that people rebuying the game pushed up sales to such a high amount is just plain idiotic. Even if what you said was true, most people wouldn't even bother buying another copy and would just move onto the next new shiny game.

>>2504551
I remember back when hearing first about how for some people, they missed the NES/SNES generations and their first console was a playstation, and being like: wow, how is that even possible. I somehow still kind of feel that.

>>2503462
I started with 1 about a year ago and I've been slowly working my way through the series.

1 is very, very, very basic. You might find some things like the Vancian magic system (instead of having MP, each tier of spells has a number of charges for it; I personally like Vancian magic, it's just different from later series or most later RPGs in general) and the really barebones plot that requires you to take notes on everything so you know where to go. It also has a lot of bugs. I honestly like FF1, it's pretty simple but I think it gives it a charm. The GBA remake I hear modernizes things a bit with things like MP (and adds a bunch of bonus content). There's also a PS1 port I hear that fixes bugs and has better graphics but the gameplay is pretty much the same. Also four fighters/monks is the best party.

FF2 is shit. I couldn't play it. The game takes a lot of risky choices and some of them aren't executed well; it's the first game in the series to have a detailed plot and player characters with personality, but the whole thing is held back by the awful level up system (you don't have levels and instead gain stats from how you perform in battle, which means grinding for something like HP requires you standing there and letting enemies kick the shit out of you, healing, and letting them do it again). I skipped it and you shouldn't feel bad if you skip it. Apparently the GBA version is a lot more tolerable, I never tried it.

FF3 brings back the class system from FF1 but expands it so you have a lot more classes (maybe too many since a few are near-useless) and can change them mid-game. I think it's the most polished of the NES games, the class system allows boss fights to require more strategy, and while the protagonists are made generic like in FF1, the world has a lot of atmosphere for an NES game. The moment you leave the Flying Continent into a sea of absolutely nothing, looking for some place to land was huge in my opinion.

1/2

>>2504770
2/2

FF4 is like FF2 with a normal level-up system and less horrible design choices all around. You have named characters with personality and set stats (no classes), your party is dictated by the plot so you have to work with what you're given, and it's the most story-driven game yet, and I consider it the first "modern" FF game since later games tend to be similarly story-driven.

In that vein, FF5 is the last "classic" FF game outside some later spinoffs that I heard about but haven't played yet. The job system is back and made much deeper; you can level up jobs to gain new skills, and can choose to give said skills to other classes, giving you nearly endless party skillsets. It's about as story driven as FF4 but you have the same party the whole time mostly so you have complete control over your jobs, skills, etc. Bosses are the most strategic in the series so far, some requiring you to really think how to beat it, and it's just the best game in the series out of all the ones I played.

Final Fantasy VI is next on my list of games to play, I just thought I'd give you my opinions on the games. If you don't want to start with 1, I recommend starting with 3, and then either going to 4 next or skipping to 5 and playing 4 later, since 5 is like an expanded version of 3.

>>2504156

You're practically expected to exploit 2's system to beat it in any reasonable amount of time. Literally entering combat and beating eachother up to raise strength and HP. The system is fucking asinine and absolutely ruins any of the rest of the fun there is to be had in the game.

>>2503495
>6 is the overall best
>7 is clichéd

FF 6 fanboys. Every time.

>>2504770
>Swordchucks

>>2503462
my nigga

Start with the first, its always been my favorite

>>2504156
>and I don't hear anyone complaining about SaGa's mechanics.
You wot

One of the reasons SaGa is less popular is BECAUSE of it's nonconventional leveling.

>>2503462
First off, you're taking entirely the wrong attitude towards the whole thing. Not thinking of them as crap is a good place to start.

After that, remember that the series is popular because it's a franchise of easy access JRPGs. They're fairly basic and offer just enough challenge and originality to be fun, but won't blow anyone's mind who's jaded by years and years of gaming elsewhere. Especially if you're a hardcore WRPG nut or simply don't "get" turn based battles.

They're also almost entirely plot driven, and most people pick their favorite one based on the plot, villain or main characters (or music in some cases)

They are literally the Hollywood summer blockbuster movies of the videogame world. They entertain, but offer not very much in terms of a deeper experience when compared to more hardcore affairs. So keep that in mind.

The best place to start is with your preferred platform. So if you like the SNES a lot, then start there. It's not too hard, really. The plots are all unrelated, so no need to play them in order at all.

Lastly, here's a list of games to NOT start with:

Final Fantasy II - broken beyond repair
Final Fantasy V - not very fun at all and may turn you off to the rest of the series
Final Fantasy VIII - the single most butthurt rage and fanboi circlejerk inducing game ever made. Just don't play it. I hear enough bullshit about it as is...
Final Fantasy XIII - broken beyond repair

And avoid XI and XIV at all costs.
Start anywhere else, and you'll do fine.

>>2505421
Care to explain why 5 is not fun? 5's job system is the best and allows a lot of customization. I can understand you feeling this way if you're having trouble as at points if you don't know what you're doing you can get into difficult situations but I genuinely feel its the single best Final Fantasy of the SNES and NES eras.

The other SNES ones just don't compare. FF4 is linear as hell and quite grindy, and FF6 has its own slew of problems like too many characters, and a customization system that doesn't get introduced until halfway through the game.

>>2505421
>Final Fantasy VIII - the single most butthurt rage and fanboi circlejerk inducing game ever made.
That title goes to FFVII and the "FFVII is a perfect masterpiece" reply you are going to give me confirms this.

>>2505421
What's wrong with 5? I'm the anon who was playing them all in order, and 5 has the best gameplay of all the ones I've played so far. Like >>2505436 said the job system is god-tier.

>>2503520
Vivi is the best damn thing about that game

You sound like you're borderline retarded, OP.

>>2505436
>>2505468

It's slow as molasses and just doesn't really stack up to the others. Plus, for freaking YEARS, everyone shared this opinion with me. I guess I'm even too old for "le retro gaem board" now...

I can't justifiably say why I thought it wasn't fun, I guess. I just found it to be painfully boring when compared to what came before and after. So chalk it up to personal taste I guess.

>>2505548
>everyone shared this opinion with me

I had the opposite.. everyone thought FF5 was universally amazing.

>>2505548
>I guess I'm even too old for "le retro gaem board" now...
the important thing is that you found a way to be superior to both

>>2503462
Quite frankly, I only ever played the very first NES game, around the time of its release (1991), and never bothered with the stuff that followed. Ditto with Dragon Warrior. Actually I played DW after FF, even though DW came out first. But anyway, none of that matters and I didn't know any better or care about it back then, because there wasn't all this insane noise everywhere about these franchices. In my experience, they were great fun, although there were some parts that kinda dragged on (having to fight random encounters to level up so you don't get your ass kicked by some boss or whatever).

Anyway, just ignore all the noise, and play the very first FF game (either on NES, or the GameBoy version), and if you enjoyed it, you can think about where to go from there. I can see how having these huge franchises would seem intimidating; at least I didn't have to deal with that. Ignorance is bliss... Don't fret all this crap, and just pretend the later games and stuff don't even exist.

Maybe one of these days I'll finally play FF2 and DW2... Then again I might get into Phantasy Star, or even Ultima instead.

>>2504156
>and I don't hear anyone complaining about SaGa's mechanics
Because SaGa is super niche in the west.
Most people still don't even know that FFL titles were actually SaGa games.

>>2505468

My problem with 5 is that I think it's poorly balanced and the ATB doesn't work well. It's choppy, not smooth like 6. I also really don't like the plot or characters.

VI, VII and VIII are the best. play them. start with VI its pretty cool.

>>2506063
The NES version is a buggy mess and the GBA is super casualized as far as I know. Isn't the PS1 ved agreed to be best?

>>2506217
Well that's a perfect example of the noise I'm glad I didn't have to deal with back in the day. I mean, those day you just played the game and didn't care what the "best" version was. Mostly because you only had one version anyway. That really makes things super-easy and less confusing.

Anyway, I don't remember any bugs causing problems for me. If there were any, I sure didn't notice so they must not be that big of a deal.

Besides, things were different back then. I even played Zelda II before Zelda (didn't affect my enjoyment of either game, it's just the order I found them in). And I particularly enjoyed Castlevania II, and a bit later on Faxanadu as well. Don't think I ever finished the first Castlevania either (or any later games), though I got pretty damn far in Bloodlines. Those were days when people made their own decisions on what they liked and didn't like, rather than listen to some false-gods authority whispering into your ears about which games you should like and which ones you should hate. Because in the end, we're all different creatures made up of different tastes and abilities and experiences, and trying to cram some generic/common/average ideal or opinions down everyone's throat doesn't work.

>>2506283
>Anyway, I don't remember any bugs causing problems for me.

Maybe because you weren't even aware of them, but stuff like the Intelligence bug were pretty prominent.
>Those were days when people made their own decisions on what they liked and didn't like, rather than listen to some false-gods authority whispering into your ears about which games you should like and which ones you should hate
Ah come on that's total bullshit, sure, 4chan and the internet weren't a thing back then but I sure remember the kids that took the words from magazines such as Nintendo Power or Playstation Magazine like the fucking gospel and if you had the balls to say that some scores or reviews were bullshit you'd got branded as "that idiot kid who thinks he's cool shit".

The only thing that is different is that here on 4chan there's this pretentious "circlejerk" cred where people always accuse others of circlejerking when they voice unpopular opinions or like unpopular things, I.E. FFII/FFVIII, try to mention all the good things those games are and you'll be drowned in an ocean of memes, literal lies and misconceptions.
But again, if you can't stand those things you shouldn't be here in the first place.

>>2506302
>But again, if you can't stand those things you shouldn't be here in the first place.

So much this. It baffles me how many people come to 4chan and then complain about it. Its fucking 4chan, if you're not here because you like how things are run here then why the fuck would you be here?

Similarly it makes me genuinely a little sad that one of the few other FFII supporters is also an VIII fag.

>>2506356
>it makes me genuinely a little sad that one of the few other FFII supporters is also an VIII fag.

I like both and I like them a lot, fucking deal with it.

>>2504770
>the really barebones plot that requires you to take notes on everything so you know where to go

Nigga what

I finished FFI when I was 11 and didn't write down anything except for when I made a map of the final dungeon.

>>2506363
I'm just riding your chain a little. To be honest, I like the gameplay in VIII quite a bit, it's just the characters and story that I hate (except the Laguna bits). But hey, that's why all opinions have assholes or something like that.

>>2505372
Mah nigga. That picture makes me jealous as hell. Well, I've still got my original cartridge, maps and manual, at least.

>>2505436
Different guy, but the only consistent positive thing I ever hear about 5 is "the job system is fun". That's it. Nothing about the story, the characters, the world, the music, etc. I've played and completed FF5 and literally the only two things I remember about it are that the main character is called Butz and the villain is called Exdeath. To me, it's really one of the least memorable FF games. I wouldn't say it's bad - just not very memorable and a pretty "meh" experience, aside from the job customization. Which is why I think that's really the only thing people ever mention about it when it gets recommended. But a job system doesn't make a good RPG.

>>2504245
How exactly is the theme of redemption present in FFVII?

>>2506429
The graphics, music, and world design are cool too. The boss theme is at least the third best in the series, after 6 and 7's.

>>2506417
Well you know, at first I liked them, but I was still fairly new to JRPGs so having a protagonist such as Squall was a nice surprise, the only ones that I never really liked were Quistis and Irvine, then I kinda fell out with them as I kept on playing games and eventually came to like them again for what they are, I like how Zell is a dumb idiot and Selphie is just an airheaded genki.

Regarding FFII though, I just really liked everything genuinely from the beginning and I still do, it makes me a bit sad that people keep on shitting on those games, the whole "Hit yourself in FFII" shtick really gets on my nerves sometimes but now I'm too old to give a serious shit about people who evidently didn't play the game enough to know what is truly exploitable and what is a feasible game plan.
But again, I'm one of those who prefer unusual things in JRPG and doesn't really care about stories, as long as the gameplay is engaging enough it's a good reason for me to play the game, no matter how flawed it is, if you don't play games for the gameplay I really don't know what the fuck you should do with them, but to each his own.

>>2506434
I just don't think much about the game stands out. Nothing is bad or good. The boss battle music is ok, but I prefer IV's. I do like Battle on the Big Bridge as well, but it's way down there on my list of favorites after a lot of music from FFI, IV, VI, and VII.

How about we all post some of our favorite FF tunes to help everyone chill out so we can have a comfy Final Fantasy thread?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m-8Zs9FyO8

>>2506464
FFIV had great tunes for certain dramatic parts.
Suspicion is one of my favorite BGM of all time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OKk-2pHCZM

I swear if they put Uematsu for the BGMs and Itoken for Battle Themes you'd get an amazing classic SquareSoft soundtrack.

>>2506464
A fine idea!

There was a hobby shop I used to go to a lot and they would sometimes get Japanese game music CDs in. This was back before the internet was really a thing and I didn't know that "Final Fantasy III" was actually VI. So when I saw a CD case for the FFIII soundtrack I thought that's what I was getting.

I went home, put it in and heard this Japanese guy telling a story in English and then a bunch of music I'd never heard before. It was pretty amazing and probably part of the reason I ended up loving the real III so much when I finally got to play it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOHdZvqLmu0

>>2506517
Here are the rest of the tracks because they're all fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJclyWx5OaY&index=2&list=PL1C79DA17BE1E930C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hCf88YIM-w&index=3&list=PL1C79DA17BE1E930C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4r4pWrs-2E&index=4&list=PL1C79DA17BE1E930C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4CmRuBSawA&index=5&list=PL1C79DA17BE1E930C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D79u_CLm_uk&list=PL1C79DA17BE1E930C&index=6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvRaLmA3IKo&list=PL1C79DA17BE1E930C&index=7

>>2506302
You overestimate the impact of magazines in the old days. It's not like every kid read them, or could afford subscription. Gaming back then wasn't as "organized" as today. A lot of times you just bought was looked cool on the shelf and took your chances, or you rented stuff from video store. Or you borrowed some games from friends, and you talked about games in the context of your limited circle of friends.

That is a big contrast to today where *every* kid reads Internet forums and reviews and youtube, etc. Here it's hard to escape the global herd mentality, and if (like me with my opinions of CV2) you happen to have a genuine different opinion, you're constantly at odds with noise that doesn't even make sense in the context of your individual tastes and experiences.

It's the same damn thing every time the subject comes up, people keep rehashing the same things they heard. Like for example, they say CV2 sucks because it has bad translation, and is misleading, and worst ever CV game. Except, if you take a time machine back to the 80's and play it alone, without even magazine review, and you figure out on your own that some rumors are false (just like in real tabletop D&D games that were common those days), then you can actually enjoy the game as I and my close friends did.

Discussion is useful, but taking consensus or group opinions as some kind of holy edict of truth, that is the trap to avoid. Ditto with something you read in magazine - those dudes were paid to print words, not do science. A lot of the stuff printed is heavily biased on the reviewer's opinions, hence why you can find wildly conflicting reviews and scores if you compare between magazines. Probably the most useful thing is the screenshots and basic description about what the game is like. The rest is up to you...

>>2506547
> It's not like every kid read them, or could afford subscription.
I don't know in the early 80's but in the 90's tehy were pretty widespread from what I've experienced.

>you're constantly at odds with noise that doesn't even make sense in the context of your individual tastes and experiences.
Yeah Anon, but that's the point when you stop giving a shit, and again, you're taking the internet and 4chan too seriously, this isn't a good place for truly meaningful conversation and exchange of contents, a IRL conversation, possibly with a good drink, is.

The internet is basically a huge amplifier for both good and bad things but of course bad things and stupidity will always be the bigger part of it all.

I mean, you're even older than I am man, you should have learned how to not give a damn about kids parroting the same old tired memes already, the important thing is to find people with whom you can share the stuff you like rather than bitching about things like general stupidity, and even if it's rare here on 4chan is not at all impossible, I found a lot of nice anons that like SaGa here on /vr/ just like I found lots of people who like the same stuff I like on /m/, just let go of all the negative stuff and talk about the stuff you like with people you like, to hell with that pretentious circlejerk stuff kids talk about.

tl;dr: Take it easy Anon, we know how you feel but don't get carried away by negative thoughts.

>>2506547
Like you, I quite like CV2 and it was one of my favorite games as a kid. But most of the criticisms I come across now are that it's too easy and the mansions are too short.

There are a lot of other opinions I have that are pretty outside of the general voice, you just gotta take it in stride.

>>2506482
Ah yeah, I love Suspicion. Well really, I love the whole FFIV OST.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B08Nhzrp41c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-75CA9RYGlc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyI64tfygps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wm63E83EKg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhDK2pFWCL0

>>2506517
Yeah, I remember the first time I saw the FFVI soundtrack in a game store, and I was like, wow, you guys sell the soundtracks to these games? That was way back before Youtube when the music wasn't widely available like it is now.

>>2506571
I was a teenager in the 90's ('78) and was super into video games. I hardly ever heard people refer to magazine reviews period. People talked about them sometimes, but I never once heard anything along the lines of "Gamepro said that game sucks" or "Dave Halverson said it was good, so you're wrong!" It really wasn't like that at all.

>>2506574
I bought the FFVII soundtrack in the spring before it was released in North America, listened the fuck out of it that whole summer. It made playing the game a little surreal.

>>2505548
Well I mean I'm pretty new to the series, I'm playing through them for the first time as an adult.

>>2506103
I thought the ATB system was a big improvement over FF3's job point thing (that ended up being worthless if you only seldomly changed jobs since you'd stack up 255), it encouraged experimentation and didn't cripple you for making a bad choice. Plot and characters didn't wow me much either, but most video game plots don't.

>>2505548
Which years were those? I remember before FF: Anthology came out it was always talked about as the secret best FF ever. Then it was released over here but the port was absolutely horrible with massive slowdown and loading times not to mention game crashing glitches. Personally I think that's where a lot of the backlash for it came from, the combination of having been hyped so long and then being released but almost unplayable.

i'm gonna confess, ive only played the casual ff games but heres how i see it

ff1 not a bad game, good intro to the ff universe, short but challenging
>monk/master is by far the best class

ff4 is kind of boring and linear to me but has cool visuals for a SNES game and has a good story. game likes to fuck you in the butt alot though, so be prepared

ff6 damn good story, good battle system, babbys first rpg

ff7 its fun to play once or twice through but thats about it, its got amazing visual effects and cool cutscenes but youre gonna spend alot of time grinding, especially if you want cool shit like the gold chocobo which unlocks the best fucking move in the game assuming you dont max the shit out of your 4x cuts and max your overflows and shit[\spoiler]

ff8 is shit

ff9 has a shit ending but is by far the most beautiful ps1 game ive ever played visually

ff10 is kind of like 7 in the sense that its fun like your first or second time then it gets boring

fuck what these cunts on here say 12 is fun as shit and i love that game
seriously, theres a ton of shit to do a few optional superbosses, one of which takes anywhere from half an hour to about 5 hours to beat depending on your setup[\spoiler] the only actual problem people have with the game is the main character is shit. although you can kinda tell balthier was meant to be the main character and vaan is just kind of telling the story[\spoiler]

never played the ps3 stuff

or the mmos

tl;dr 6>7>9>12>1>4>10

>>2506696
I love IX's ending, the whole thing is kind of a comedy and ends in a traditional comedy way which I enjoyed.

>>2504479
>I don't like doritos because of their flavor.
A valid opinion that is neither right or wrong.
>I don't like doritos because they are created by tentacle monsters for mind-control reasons.
A wrong opinion.

>>2506770
No, that's just an opinion based on false knowledge. There's no such thing as a wrong opinion. They're subjective by nature.

>>2506773
Ok what about:
>I think doritos tend to talk too much.

>>2506779
That would be the same thing. His opinion that he doesn't like doritos is what it is. That his reasons for not liking them are silly or imaginary is beside the point. It does make him a complete idiot, but it doesn't change his opinion into something that's objectively wrong. It's just another opinion based on false knowledge.

>>2506782
Okay but if the opinion is based on wrong information, then is it not kind of worthless if you're trying to get a feel for the subject of the opinion?

OP here. Got more interesting replies than I expected, thanks for all the detailed explanations.

The series still feels overwhelming to dive into, though, but I've decided to try the ones released in the West - 1, 4 and 6. Those seem the most interesting and this way playing through them seems feasible, so I'll go with that.
The later, Playstation entries seem the least interesting to me since I usually can't stand long battle animations and cringey characters, from what I've seen of this genre so far I gear towards the traditional way of doing things, probably best exemplified by DQ3.

Anyhow, I'll start with the FF Origins version of 1, seems the best choice.

>>2504420
...but he didn't say X-2

>>2506797
I think you're going about it the right way. It is overwhelming trying to jump into a big series, so why not just start at the beginning? Younger gamers might tell you to start with 7, and I understand that old-school NES RPGs are hard for some to get into, but I think you'll enjoy the first game (4 and 6 are excellent as well). Personally, 4>6>1 are my three favorite FFs, so good choice if you ask me. Have fun.

If you want some extra challenge with FFI, you can leave the setting on where you'll miss during battle if you've targeted an enemy that subsequently gets killed before your turn to attack comes around. Some people think it's bullshit, misinformed people think it's a "bug". I grew up playing it that way on the NES so to me it just makes you use strategy and pay attention to how much damage you're dealing out, and remember roughly how much HP monsters have, rather than just mindless spamming attack over and over.

>>2506797
I agree you're going about it the right way, but I would steer clear of Origins. It's a super shitty port with tons of slowdown and loading times. It runs a little better if you're running the ISO on a PSP, but then you might as well just play the PSP one.

I would recommend emulating the original or going with the GBA or PSP releases of it.

>>2506791
Yes it is. But then I'm of the opinion that all opinions other than your own are fundamentally pretty worthless.

>>2506812
People will gripe about the bugs in the original, or they'll gripe about the reduced difficulty in the GBA version.

I don't know much about the PSP release personally.

>>2504190
/thread

>>2506817
If memory serves correct, the PSP and GBA versions are the same. They are a little easier (read: less grindy) than the original, but I don't see that as necessarily bad. If someone tries to give you shit for having played the GBA version they're an idiot and probably just trying to be hip.

If you want the original experience, the bugs it has aren't enough to ruin it. They're certainly way better than what you'll have to deal with in Origins though, trust me. It's sad, but all those PS1 square rpg ports were awful.

>>2506806
Oh, I'll definitely leave that option on, it's cool they left that in. I actually agree with you completely, not with FF but playing DQ2 and 3 I felt prioritizing your targets and estimating the damage you deal to each one is a big part of the strategy, and battles become noticably less interesting when that is removed.
In general these NES RPGs really seem to nail that tactical gameplay with very simple mechanics, to my mind they demonstrate that complex battle systems with a dozen options are not needed at all to have a great engaging battles.

My
problem with almost every jRPG I have tried so far is the overabundance of healing items that turn encounters into a mindless chore before reaching bosses or the next story sequences. There is simply no pressure when you can survive anything and the world's most amazing battle system is just going to be a nice gimmick. I miss that nail-biting pressure in early DQs where I'm on my last few mana points, no way to heal my party and hoping the next encounter doesn't kill me.
But I've not played many games yet, there are probably lesser known series that retain this kind of resource scarcity.

>>2506821
PSP had a bonus dungeon/superboss.

>>2506830
>>2506830
It sounds like you would really like II if you actually play it normally.

>>('2506821
What are the problems with Origins, exactly? I haven't heard anything about this so I'd appreciate specific gripes. If it's just loadtimes I imagine emulating it will fix most of that.

>>2506821
Well, I grew up with the NES original. It was the first real RPG I ever played, so to me the bugs are insignificant. I've played through the GBA version and while it wasn't piss-easy or anything, it was a little less grindy, like you say. But a lot of people will mention the bugs as soon as you recommend the original game. I wonder if they'd even realize they exist if they hadn't read it somewhere online?

>>2506830
You will definitely appreciate the original FF in that case, if you're looking for a challenge. You can carry 99 healing potions, but good gear is expensive and requires some grinding (not DQI levels of grinding, though), you can only save your game in inns, and if a party member dies, they can only be revived in towns. You can use savestates if you emulate of course, but I'd encourage you to try to play the game the traditional way.

>>2506842
I was like you, grew up with the NES one. Generally I wouldn't say it was buggy, and think the people who call the targeting system a bug are a little hilarious. I will say though that I had two game ending crashes with it. The first time in the earth cave and the second was when I got to the mirage tower. Both times the game just crashed and my save was gone. Pretty devastating at the time.

>>2506838
It's just slowdown and loading times in that one. Which I would have thought emulation would fix, but it didn't really. At least in my limited testing with it. Very odd.

>>2506842
I find that usually one man's grindy bullshit is another man's fun leveling and exploration, so I don't take these complaints too seriously before trying the game. It takes a balance to make these systems work, a game where you're railroaded with fixed encounters and never have to improve your chars is another extreme and makes it boring. I appreciate when I'm expected to gain a level or two before tackling a dungeon, but of course walking in a square for two hours fighting is no fun, but DQ1 is the only game where that applies that I've played - 3 certainly isn't a grindfest.

>>2506887
FFI can get pretty gindy at times, more so early on. There's a village you come to called Elfland where the prices for weapons and armor are all the sudden really expensive and the next dungeon you need to go through is pretty nasty. I have memories of a hell of a lot of time spent wandering back and forth outside there fighting ogres.

>>2506887
Well, let us know what you think. I'm curious how you'll find the game.

>>2506917
Funny, I was thinking of exactly the same area when I mentioned the gear being expensive and the game being a little grindy in a previous post.

>>2506947
Yeah, Elfland is a little infamous for that. One of the few points where you really have to stop and grind a while.

>>2506812
But Origins was one of the good PS1 ports? It was only Chronicles and Anthology that suffered from long load times.

>>2503462
Play Dawn of Souls

>>2506975
True, it wasn't nearly as bad as Chronicles. I actually consider that completely unplayable, but Origins was still bad enough that it really irritated me to the point that I didn't even finish a single playthrough of either I or II on it.

Oldfag here.

I played FF1 on release day in NA. It was amazing for it's time as it was an unlicensed TSR game that was better than every "real" AD&D game out there at the time. They even included all the TSR original monsters found in the 1977 edition of monster manual 1.

This is why some consider it to be a WRPG and not a JRPG. Final fantasy did not conform to what we now call JRPGs until the fourth game in the series.

For people new to the series I would recommend playing the remakes as they reduce the grind considerably.

The remakes also added attack carry-over for combat. In the original turn based combat your party members would lose their turn if their assigned target died, and in the remakes their attack simply transfers over to the next enemy.

>>2507031
>This is why some consider it to be a WRPG and not a JRPG.
What? The only WRPG esque element I could get out of FF1 was pretty much the character creation aspect. Everything else fell into the JRPG side of things perfectly.

>>2507098

FF1 borrowed the character classes and spell system directly from 1st edition players handbook. All accompanying game mechanics also came from first edition AD&D rules.

-Fighter (later a paladin with low level cleric spells)
-Cleric (white mage could only use blunt weapons as per AD&D early rules)
-Magic user (black mage could only use daggers and staff)
-Monk (with multiple open hand attacks at higher levels, but using weaposn at low levels)
-Thief (ninja came a bit later in first edition)
-Bard (light armor, sword, limited access to spells. Simplified for FF1 to make it a multi-class flighter/cleric/magic user)

Spell system was first edition TSR rules as well. You were allocated certain number of spells per spell level, and had to rest to restore them. 95% of the spells were also pulled from players handbook but they were a bit more simplified and balanced.

As mentioned earlier the monsters were pulled word-for-word from monster manual 1. They used the TSR system for giants and dragons (red dragon was fire, blue dragon lightning, white dragon ice, tiamat was a chromatic dragon, bahamut was a platinum dragon). Mind flayers had a death attack, Beholder had his gaze attacks, Otyug (later called ochu) had its disease/poison. Salamander was a flame demon as well. Literally page after page of MM artwork copied into 8-bit graphics.

Some of the roots for later JRPGs came from FF1, but FF1 itself was as pure a WRPG as you get.

>>2507163

Forgot the list. They even used the TSR names in the original Japanese edition.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nfS3wPwmTVWhwByVpO3ZZ2p1QiUtwZ5QHFUtSj29n1o/edit?pli=1#gid=0

To be clear I am not criticizing this. Being a Japanese bootleg AD&D game is what gave the first FF game it's charm.

>>2506857
The big bugs I know of are a few spells either not working as intended or just doing nothing at all, the Monk's prestige not doing anything to his stats (it actually decreases one of his stats, I think his magic resistance), the crit table not working properly (each weapon has a set crit rate, but instead of reading that when doing crits, it reads the index number of the weapon, so early weapons have almost no chance of critting and late weapons have a higher chance of critting), and the Int stat not doing anything at all.


Really, I don't think the bugs hurt the game that much other than the spells that don't work since you have limited spell slots. I think some ports of FF1 deliberately leave the crit bug in because it's kind of a cool way to do things even if it wasn't intentional. I agree that the targetting system wasn't a bug and it added a nice little challenge.

>>2507241
>the Int stat not doing anything at all.

That is a throwback to AD&D rules. INT stat does not affect spell damage.

Some other spells also have weird traits due to how literally the developers imported them. Even in AD&D the high level spell "power word: Blind" was fucking terrible as it could not affect enemies over 100hp. In FF for NES they upped the hp limit to 300hp enemies as the cap to make it slightly less terrible but it only affected a single target.

Rub spell is equally infective for similar reasons. AD&D level 6 death spell that it is extremely limited and infective.

Literally following first edition AD&D rules explains the weird math and bad spells in FF1. They are there by design and are mistaken for bugs, but you can blame TSR for making a shitty system and Square for copying it so literally.

The NES version did genuinely have a few extra spell bugs though. LOK2 actually buffs the enemy instead of debuffs.

So I just found out every class is useless except for warrior and red mage.
The more I read about FF1 the more it seems like total shit. I get the impression you guys defend this game solely for hipster cred.

>>2507376
>The more I read about FF1 the more it seems like total shit
Try playing it?

>>2507384
I'll play the ps1 remake, you know the one that actually works properly.

>>2507376
>So I just found out every class is useless except for warrior and red mage.

What?

They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I mean a party of Fighters and Monks might blow away most bosses from sheer DSP, but every class brings something to the table. Magic is a bit underpowered, but the white mage gets the best healing spells and the black mage gets the best damaging magic, the thief isn't that useful early on but when you prestige it becomes a great damage dealer due to all the weapons it can use, and the monk is arguably a better damage dealer than the fighter (who's better wavers back and forth through the game depending on what weaponry you have on you, but the monk has the advantage of almost never needing equpiment).

I used a party of Fighter/Thief/Monk/Red Mage my first playthrough, and all four of them pulled their weight in ways the other party members wouldn't have done as well.

>>2507406
Final tier white mage spells are totally useless, the red mage gets all healing spells.
Monk is just an underperforming warrior that wears cheaper equipment, why even use him if you can grind for 30 more minutes and just buy silver swords for the whole party?
Thief is useless if you don't put him in the third slot where his ability to escape actually work as intended.

>>2507406
Final tier white mage spells are completely useless, the red mage gets every healing spell with the same effectiveness.
Monk is just an underperforming warrior that wears cheaper equipment, why even use him if you can grind for 30 more minutes and just buy silver swords for the whole party?
Thief is useless if you don't put him in the third slot where his ability to escape actually work as intended.>>2507406
Final tier white mage spells are totally useless, the red mage gets all healing spells.
Monk is just an underperforming warrior that wears cheaper equipment, why even use him if you can grind for 30 more minutes and just buy silver swords for the whole party?
Thief is useless if you don't put him in the third slot where his ability to escape actually work as intended.

>>2507412
>the red mage gets all healing spells with the same effectiveness
Fixed.

>>2507406
The black mage only gets NUKE over the red mage and he can only cast it once before returning to the inn. Everything else is shitty status ailment inflicting.

>>2507412
Dude, by endgame monks are hitting up to eight times per attack, their damage output is higher than that of a fighter even with Excalibur, if RNG is giving them their max hits. Fighters have better defense, slow speed due to armor weight, and cost more money to maintain, Monks are faster due to lack of armor and can't take a hit as well, and cost next to nothing. They're both very viable.

>you can just grind

You can grind to Level 99 and beat the game with four unprestiged Thieves, too.

>>2507412
>Monk is just an underperforming warrior that wears cheaper equipment,

Attack 16 times in one turn at higher levels if hasted. He is far, far more powerful than warrior.

Without buff spells the blackbelt can kill the final boss in two normal attacks. With buff spells he can one-shot Chaos.

>>2507436
That's interesting, he's a stronger more fragile warrior, then. I still think the money saving advantage he has over the warrior is negligible because by the end of the game you should have enough money to afford the best equipment anyway.

>>2507452

it has nothing to do with money.

Blackbelt (or whatever he is called in your version) will output more damage than the rest of the party combined.

>>2507452
Your best weapons and armor you'll likely find in dungeons anyway, so the money is more of an early game thing.

>>2507460
Gotcha.

It's really just the magic users that suck.

>>2504129
I, as an actual first time player as well, am playing 4 for the DS and boy oh boy was I disappointed. Lookin forward to literally playing anything else

>>2508015
and this is why recommendation threads are useless. 5 has nice customization, 6 has a good story, 7 is silly and fun

>>2507376
>So I just found out every class is useless except for warrior and red mage.
From whom?
>The more I read about FF1 the more it seems like total shit. I get the impression you guys defend this game solely for hipster cred.
You sound like an underaged twat. Try the game for yourself.

>>2508015
I get shit on every time I say this but the DS remake sucks. I'm not saying you should go play the original, if you really hate the remake that much, but I wouldn't have recommended the clunky DS version to a first time player.

Try V if the idea of class customization sounds really fun, because that's about all that really stands out in that game. VI has a great story and some great characters. VII you may find underwhelming only due to the extreme amount of hype it's gotten over the years, but it's a good game.

>>2508376
I did and I can clearly say there's nothing special about ff1. It's the same mash A to win gameplay you guys criticize so much with fetch quests and small dungeons.

>>2507376
>The more I read about FF1 the more it seems like total shit.
I can only imagine what's your definition of good then.
> you guys defend this game solely for hipster cred.
>FF
>Hipster cred
U fuckin' wot m8?

>>2508376
My bad, the only viable classes are warrior, blk belt and red mage. The other mages are noob traps since the red mage will get all of their useful spells with better equipment and the thief can be arguably useful, but only if he's on the third slot.

>>2508391
You're right, all jrpgs are garbage. FF1 more so since it's the same old flawed gameplay but even more punishing.

>>2508397
>>2508387
So basically you just hate JRPGs. Cool. Here's the reply you're so desperately seeking.

>>2508409
Yep, shit genre.

If you are the kind of person who is not a fan of Final Fantasy after all these years, then it's probably not worth your time to try and get into them. You have almost certainly played better RPGs over the years, and you don't have warm nostalgic memories to endear you to them.

The first one is probably the only one you will really enjoy. Play the FF Chronicles version for the PS1, and if you don't enjoy that then there is literally no point moving onto any of the rest of the series.

>>2503462
I suggest playing a ROM hack that fixes all the bugs, maybe even the hard type called Final Fantasy Zz that is more genuinely difficult.

>>2506797
Well, I'm few hours into the Origins version of 1.
I have to say I enjoy this port, I've experienced no slowdowns that the other anon mentioned, the battles are a bit quicker and the remade music is great, and it's nice to be able to turn off most of the new features. I'm sticking with this version.

Anyway, I took the default warrior/thief/whitemage/blackmage party. It all feels very low level d&d which is pretty nice. I definitely didn't expect to get a boat almost right away though! As a result I have no idea where to go other than having to find the crystal eye... somewhere, and apparently that will help with reviving the elf prince.
So I'm just leveling, entering the various towns and outfitting my party, so far pretty fun. It's refreshing to have to flee some battles and I've lost the more squishy members like the black mage a few times.

The major obstacle in combat is turning out to be missing attacks. I don't know if this gets better later but my fighter hits like half the time.

>>2508847
Your accuracy does get better later on, don't worry. You get better evasion too so you'll find yourself winning some battles a bit easier.

>>2508847

Yeah that's one thing I liked about FF1 over the others too- You have to actually explore and talk to NPCs to figure out what to do. I mean the game itself is still pretty linear when you step back and look at it, but you're not funnelled down the route so forcefully as with the rest of the games, the game gives you as the player enough credit to actually use your own initiative.

All in all though, it's an accidentally good game, the sequels immediately fucked all of it up and never looked back. Just imagine if they had gone in a different direction and made the world bigger and more open, the classes more customisable, more loot variation and use, and a levelling system with some interaction.

Just imagine.

>B-but you get to choose your party members! Sometimes. And there was that trading card mini game! It has so much depth!

>>2508424
>jrpg
>genre

Are the PSP versions of I, II, III, IV and Tactics any good?

>>2505372
>>2506418
I came to this thread just to find my fellow niggas.

>>2508847
>PSX remake
>turning off the "new features"
This is honestly the best way to go for new players. Good on you.

>>2509441
The PSP versions of I and II are neutered beyond belief. The balance that made FFI work is all gone, because you can level up too quickly and become a walking god within an hour of starting the game.
FFII's PSP version has all the major issues from the original fixed, but it's just too damned easy, honestly. You never have to go out of your way to grind or over power your characters at all. So I can see that being a plus to some people, but not for me.

The rest are fine:

FFIII is just the DS version on one screen. So it's a 3D remake of the original game that loses a little bit of the original's charm and challenge, but makes up for it in other areas, like being a LOT less strict about when specific classes MUST be used.
FFIV is a 2D remake, with it's sequel built in. As far as I recall, it's just as good as any other version of FFIV, but nicer looking. But I'm not that game's biggest fan, so my take on things may not be as accurate as a major FFIV fan's.
FFT, as far as I know, is the exact same game, but with a new (old timey) translation, a lot less slowdown and a new quest, classes and characters added. But I may be wrong on the last 3 things.
All the same, FFIII, IV and Tactics are all fine in their PSP iterations. Easily just as good as the originals, unless you're a majorly obsessed fan or something.

>>2507436
>You can grind to Level 99
You can't grind to level 99 with any class in this game, bruv.

>>2509529
Level 50 then, my bad since the cap in later games is 99.

>>2508847
Glad you're enjoying it. Yeah, you often will have no idea where to go at first...but it's a refreshing change from modern games with all their hand-holding and mollycoddling. Final Fantasy isn't as obtuse as a lot of games from that era. Generally if you talk to enough people and explore a while, you'll figure out where to go.

>>2509441
The PSP version of I is based off the GBA port, you get the cool stuff like bonus dungeons but at the same time it turns a reasonably (and occasionally unreasonably) difficult game into one that's almost embarrassingly easy

I don't recall off-hand but I'd assume II on PSP is also based on the GBA version; the changes are a bit more welcome there since II originally had some serious balance flaws, and you get a bonus second campaign

>>2508847
Keep in mind that party order is important in battle because monsters attack your party members in the top two positions more often, you want them to be arranged descending by HP/defense

>>2504210

>There's nothing "wrong" with the story

Are you serious m8? The story is one of the worst parts about it, past the graphics and OST. The gameplay is shit when compared to other FF games but at least a case can be made for linear games. Final Fantasy IV's characters are almost completely flat past a few traits and the few characters make them look like nothing more than bog standard character archetypes. The game relies heavily on stupid plot devices like mind control and crystals without taking the idea anywhere, and it constantly "kills" off your characters. The story itself feels like it's being made up as the game goes along.

>get these four crystals
>oh yeah there are more crystals I should've mentioned that :^)
>oh yeah now you have to go destroy a robot made by ayy lmaos that live in the center of the moon
>please take us seriously, this is a realistic character drama video game

FF 1-3 had infinitely superior stories without gutting the combat or forcing you through "dramatic" scenes every 5 minutes.

>>2510518
Kain plz stop betraying my party, thx

>>2509512

Final Fantasy III DS/PSP is much harder overall than the NES version. In fact, the difficulty level is bullshit in some areas.

>get to the void after an hour long dungeon trek
>get back attacked
>enemies one-shot me before I have a chance to do anything

Anyways, it's still very strict in regards to forced character classes during story segments, but it's better overall due to the minor balance changes. You're still going to get raped if you try to go through Falgabard without dark knights, but at least you're not actively crippling yourself by experimenting with multiple jobs.

>>2508904
That sounds disappointing. Since I really enjoyed those aspects of NES FF1 (along with the AD&D elements), I'll probably skip the rest of this series.

>>2510518
the OST is great though
you can realy feel how uematsu stepped up his game a lot as soon as he was given new toys to play with.

>>2503578
Or maybe it was the incoherent plot and draw magic / card bullshit.

>>2504156
Mechanics are the reason no one played the SaGa games.

>>2503462
Most ppl would say there is FF before 10 and after 10.... everything up to 10 even despite the differences and advancements among them, was born from the same DNA so to speak, after 10 things become very very different. Most ppl, especially on this board, are going to prefer 1-10. That being said, those are very different amongst themselves. 1-3 are going to be challenging to get into unless you play a remake because of the rough/slow mechanics, high encounter/grind rate, and the shallow plot/translations, and even then it will seem pretty ancient. 4 is where things started to seem like what we call FF today, the story and characters got significantly deeper, or at least the text and dialogue made it seem that way. also the mechanics were finally fluid enough for the average person not to rage. 5 was quite a step in a different direction, much "sillier" plot and takes itself less seriously, and much more customization of characters with the job system which is good or bad depending on who you ask. 6 was a much more developed and deep 4. the storyline and character development really started to increase here, so if thats your thing 6 is probably the most satisfying. 7 is where things went 3d and although i love this game dearly, it has developed a cult like following so strong that for a newcomer it will never live up to the hype :/ despite being great fun. the story is deep, the materia system is wonderful. 8 is equally as wonderful if you can roll your eyes at a few plot points without getting too upset (like most of these games anyway) and can at least understand the junction system if not enjoy it. 9 is going to seem similar to 7 and 8 in most respects even though the mechanics are different, the way you play the game will seem familiar. then there is 10... which is quite different, and then 11 and onward are an entirely different beast altogether and not very much like the traditional JRPGs that im assuming you want to play.

>>2503578
I love 8 but you can't make the assumption that that's the only reason people didn't like it

>>2510518
I think you meant to reply to me (I'm the guy defending FFIV), but eh, different strokes for different folks I guess. I like the story. Maybe you didn't play the game til you were older and jaded (I played it as a kid). I know when I try to play some older games that I've never played before, sometimes I'm heavily critical or just flat-out like "fuck, I don't get the big deal about this shit". But with FFIV, even as an adult, I've never gone through the game and tried to critique the story or whatever, I just play the game and have fun.

>>2510557
The FF games get further and further away from the gameplay of the first one as they go, so if you do try any of the others, try one of the earlyish ones IV, V or VI).

>>2507031
>>2507163
Oldfag knows what he's talking about, that was one of the things that endeared FFI to me so much as well. Also ironically I had almost no idea what the game was like, or about until I started playing it. But I became interested in the first place from a poster of the box art was up on the wall when I had gone to my first ever D&D game. Two great loves were born that day.

this game is amazing man, really amazing but you wont feel anything because you are too late to the party, some people can still enjoy this, idk if you will

>>2503462
No point starting on older versions without any nostalgia drive. Play the first 4s remakes, but over all start on 9.

>>2503462
>effect

Why do so many people make that mistake?

Play 6 and stop there.
I have played 1-2-5-6 to completion and plenty of 3-4-7-9. They're just not worth it.

>>2511838
No you didn't.

>>2510698
How about other games then? Are there other early 8 or 16 bit console or 80's home computer games that are very close in scope and gameplay to NES FF1? There is apparently some pretty obscure stuff out there, like Miracle Warriors for SMS. I don't even care if the game engine is clunky or artwork isn't so great.

>>2512410
/vr/ has a boner for wizardry, dragon quest and ultima

>>2510692

I played it as a kid and an adult and had fun both times because it has decent pacing, but the story absolutely falls apart under any scrutiny. The game is much better off if you just treat the story as something that exists, like with a Mario game, rather than a core element of the game.

>>2504267
>I find the story and characters flat and boring, even for an FF game.
Cecil was a great main character and a massive improvement over the many flat self-inserts in RPGs of that time.

Oldskool Final Fantasy fan here, been playing since I owned FF1 on NES

I'll try to look past my nostalgia goggles and do my best to refrain from waxing fedora-fag about the obscure ones. Do keep in mind that shit gets popular for a reason.

Another thing to keep in mind is that playing them tabula rasa in 2015, it's easy to not notice how ground breaking many of these games were in their time, and that colors people's attitudes

1 is the original, set the tone for the entire series. If you enjoy NES games this is hands down one of the best games on the platform and you will not be disappointed. If not, you could probably skip it. 2 and 3 can be safely avoided. These two are for hardcore fans only.

4 was the first SNES title so it lacks the depth of later entries, but if you take it for what it is it's a nice, atmospheric game. 5 is a quirky entry to the series. It's not the most popular, nor is it particularly memorable, but it has its redeeming qualities. 6 is the original hipster cred, the original final fantasy to like before it was cool to like final fantasy, and for good reason. If you like SNES games, this is the pinnacle of the era.

7 is polarizing in these boards because of how insanely popular it was, and for some people that is reason enough to hate it. And in fairness, those primitive 3-D graphics have not aged well at all. But if you can get past them, it has one of the finest atmospheres of any game in the PS1 era. 8 is the black sheep of the family. For many fans it was "7, with more of the things that made it suck and fewer of the things that made it cool", but it has a small base of avid defenders. 9 is the new 6, hipster cred that is obscure enough to make liking it cool and unique, but not too obscure to where nobody remembers it. Some people love the light-hearted tone, others can't stand it. I'd at least give it a chance.

PS2 era isn't considered retro yet, is it?

>>2506429
the thing is, FFV is the only game in the franchise that could be enjoyed without all the pretty makeup that covers lots of FF's weaknesses. VI, for example, is a great game, but without the gorgeous graphics, the memorable OST and the detailed characters (whceh are NOT part ofthe gameplay) it would be mediocre at best. FFV could be made of just numbers and it would still be enjoyable because you can experiment with abilities and create your personal strategies.

>>2512615
So in other words, if we just got rid of everything that makes a game a game and reduced it to the level of a math puzzle featuring black and white figures on a black and white game-board?

atmosphere matters. Some games that are relatively simple by modern standards are still enjoyable because of the experience of playing it, and things like graphics, OSTs, and story-lines contribute to those.

But with that being said, I agree that FF5's main draw is its battle system. But if I wanted an in-depth job system I could play 10-2 and just ignore the fruity "super princess dress up" aspect of the game.

>>2512618
>a math puzzle featuring black and white figures on a black and white game-board
that is still a game if you enjoy it
I was trying to say that FFV is the one where the atmosphere has the least impact, so that you can enjoy it even if you're not into the kind of experience that the FF franchise tries to give.

>>2512621
I agree, but at least admit that math puzzles are a niche interest, and that as a game which relies more on mechanics than on atmosphere, that too makes FF5 a niche interest.

That doesn't make it bad, that just means it caters to a specific audience. If you enjoy Final Fantasy you'll probably appreciate the liberties it takes with the classical FF mechanics. If you don't enjoy Final Fantasy, it probably won't convince you that they're quality games. If you're new to the series, it probably isn't the best place to start

>got party to level 8
>still can't survive in marsh cave
Jesus christ, how
Is there something else I need to do first, as far as I know this is the only dungeon open to me now

>>2512825
Marsh Cave is the first dungeon in the game where you really need to farm for potions coming into it, I'd also suggest taking a few tents and using one to save right next to the dungeon entrance

>>2504551
You're an idiot.
A Link To The Past was popular as well, but it doesn't change the fact that Ocarina of Time was the one that truly brought the series to the mainstream and thus was most peoples first Zelda.
FF7 is the OOT of its series in terms of legacy.

>>2512825
Marsh Cave is basically one of the most infamous dungeons ever concocted by man. Level 8 should be fine, though 9 can help too; just expect to die and try again a bunch. Definitely save outside the entrance though.

Imma hop into this thread, I've tried so many fucking times to get into this series and every time it's been god awful, the closest I've gotten has been
1. Remake of 4 for the DS, after playing for 2 hours and realizing that nothing I did up to that point mattered in the slightest I tapped out
2. Final Fantasy Legend 1-3, picked them up at a flea market and loved them, thought I had finally gotten into the series but nope, SaGa.

I like dragon quest a lot too but I have no idea why this shitty series is so beloved to so many twats.

>>2515931
>I have no idea why this shitty series is so beloved to so many twats.

Dude, you only played 2 hours of the crappy DS remake.
That's not nearly enough to form a opinion, especially when there's dozens of games in the series.

>>2515931
>likes Dragon Quest
>thinks FF is shitty

>>2515931
>nothing I did up to that point mattered in the slightest I tapped out

Aww babby can't handle a main characters losses?
Do you stop watching movies partway through when things get hard on the characters?

>>2515974
If he's a DQ fan, he probably can handle loss considering what horrible bullshit DQ5 puts the protagonist through.

Still, it's a bit odd that a DQ fan wouldn't at least appreciate FF4, which is about as linear, familiar, and straight forward as most of DQ itself.

A SaGa fan could at least appreciate FF2 for obvious reasons as well.

>>2503495
>FF 11
>FF12 Zodiac Brave edition
>FF14
>Questionable

You can eat a dick. The rest I agree, though.

>>2512615
Fuck off, the World of Ruin is god tier for exploration, especially after getting the airship.

>>2503491
6 is so ungodly boring.

Theres no customization. Its almost universally better to use their innate character abilities (tools, blitz, sword tech, etc) unless their Celes, Strago, Relm, or Terra in whcih case Magic basically is their innate character ability. Its easy as all fuck, the story is boring, and recruiting all your characters back feels like a god damn chore. Its grindy as all fuck as well once you hit WoR.

>>2516054
>Its grindy as all fuck
dude you must really suck if you need to grind in FF6

>>2516094
Good luck getting through Kefka's Tower with tier2 magic and at level 23.

>>2516054
>it's better to use (...) sword tech
Nope.

>>2503462
posting Japanese cover because why the fuck not

>>2516054

>grindy as fuck
>not just going to the dragon forest with one character and grinding them to 99 in 10 minutes

lol

>>2516098
>tier2 magic and level 23 in the WoR
how can you do that
do you run away from EVERY single random encounter?

>>2516120
No. In fact I barely ran from battles at all.

I actually even grinded to level 16 before Carry Armor with Locke and Celes.

FF6 is just all over the fucking place.

>>2516127
I remember being at least level 30ish in my last run of FFVI and I never grinded one bit. I just bothered to do all the sidequets for items and espers.

>>2516110
What's the name of the knight that appears in Origins and Dissidia? Just "Hero of Light"?

>>2516131
I finished the game at level 35, just running from most battles because fuck it.

Anyone who say it's grindy just suck at the game. The game is probably the easiest to go low level because of how espers work.

>>2503462
Most Final Fantasy games are at least "decent", but 4, 7, and 9 are the only "good" Final Fantasy games, and even they aren't that amazing. People love 6 for some reason, but they're wrong. Please OP, if you're still here, do not begin Final Fantasy with 6. Of all the misplaced, blatant fanboyism that 7 gets, 6's fanboyism is even more misplaced.
of the non-/vr/ FF, only 13 is worth playing but it's solely due to its innovation of the ATB battle system. If you play it, don't ever level up unless you're stuck; it's more fun that way. Avoid 10, avoid 12 unless you like MMOs. 10-2 is alright, but I still don't recommend it.

>I haven't played many jrpgs
Start with Chrono Trigger. Made by same company as Final Fantasy. Even people who don't think Chrono Trigger is the best can all agree that it's solid. There is an almost unanimous agreement that Chrono Trigger is good, while every Final Fantasy is hit or miss and the series as a whole is sometimes written off.

>recently various Dragon Quest games I am falling in love with
Well then you should like Final Fantasy. In my opinion, Dragon Quest has more charm, but overall is worse than Final Fantasy. FF has more polish.

>>2516217
Other than the fact that it was a lot of people's first rpg is there any reason to not declare ff4 complete shit?

The game is basically devoid of any tactical choices even by FF standards. You never decide your party, have basically unlimited money (so no budgeting choices), never customize the characters apart from equipping gear (and each new piece of gear is strictly better than another). Most characters do not have mana to manage and the ones don't have much in the way of spell choices.

The dungeons are basically straight lines, a few times you can go slightly off path to find a treasure (never any interesting loot just more gold or potions, which you never run out of).

There are no optional areas, choices about what order to do content in, or even side quests.

The combat and exploring deserve a 0/10.

The graphics are fairly repetitive with tile sets lacking detail and being repeated far too often (compare it to Chrono Trigger or SD3 and it makes ff4 look like an NES game). Only the monster sprites are any good, music is excellent. Story is mediocre and milks the same points over and over (Kane gets mind-controlled 3 times, virtually every party member sacrifices themself only be resurrected later). The only really memorable part was the paladin quest.

It would utter fanbase boy bias to give it anything more than 5/10. The mechanics are a 0/10 and it depends entirely on graphics, music, and story to keep your interested

>>2516153
Warrior of Light. Also sorta the Warrior of Light from FF1 isn't the same one as in Dissidia, since that one is a clone of Lufenian Cid.

>>2516284
It's influential as all hell though

>>2516284
>Other than the fact that it was a lot of people's first rpg is there any reason to not declare ff4 complete shit?
For me personally, FF1 was my first Final Fantasy, and Final Fantasy 4 was nowhere near my first RPG. I even played Final Fantasy 6 before I played 4.

I will admit, though, that there is a caveat with 4 being good: It must be Final Fantasy 4 (not US 2), and preferably the DS version. US 2 gameplay is not good.

>The game is basically devoid of any tactical choices even by FF standards
You said it yourself, "even by FF standards". People are only kidding themselves if they think any /vr/ iteration of Final Fantasy requires or even allows much customization or tactical choices. It almost always doesn't matter, regardless which Final Fantasy it is.
DS has customization due to the added skills system

>You never decide your party
Who cares. Who. Fucking. Cares. As said above, there is little added gameplay in choosing to use Barret over RedXII, and there is almost no difference in choosing to acquire both Yuffie and Vincent, even if you use a part of Cloud, VIncent, Yuffie. What is even the difference, besides their appearance? Stats so minimal that it can be overcome with gear or class/materia/esper/junction customization.
I actually like that 4 has very clear cut roles for each character and that the game gives you what it wants you to have for each point in the story. I also enjoy the episodic nature of the rotating party members, and I enjoy that the reason they usually leave is that they die

>>2516284
>>2516405
>The dungeons are basically straight lines, a few times you can go slightly off path to find a treasure
You have just described almost all Final Fantasy games.

More choices of places to go merely means that there are more dead ends; in Final Fantasy, these extra choices rarely, if ever, have a different outcome or indeed lead to anything new at all. I would rather have 1 path with 1 exit than have 1 path, 23 branches, 1 treasure that I can buy in a store, and 1 exit.

>There are no optional areas, choices about what order to do content in, or even side quests.
Final Fantasy 4 is definitely lacking in these areas, but I don't think that a lack of "unnecessary" content can be used much to a game's detriment. I mean, Parasite Eve and Star Ocean games are good because there are floors upon floors of fucking ridiculous bonus dungeon after the main game, right?

And anyway, you're not entirely right. I haven't played the US2 version since I was a kid, and I've usually played remakes, but off the top of my head there are missable summons like Sylph and Odin, there is Frying Pan for Yang, "Knife", and probably some others I'm forgetting. There's the Dwarven Pub with the smut magazine.

I just don't find linearity in games to be a negative thing. What's really the difference in being forced to do [A] first before doing [B], rather than having the option to do [A] first, then [B], except that the game still requires you to do both things.

>The combat and exploring deserve a 0/10.
Welcome to most jRPGs. This is absolutely normal for Final Fantasy.
This "combat" complaint is why I recommend Final Fantasy 13 played at a minimal level; it's the only good FF battle system

If you want to explore, there are several places you can go when you get the airship that you aren't required to go to yet. You can get lots of extra items and you can get Eblan Castle treasures if you want.

Let's also not forget that you get to go the THE FUCKING MOON

>>2516284
>>2516405
>>2516410
>The graphics [...]
Graphics make the game, right? Final Fantasy 6 is definitely prettier, but this complaint can by remedied by playing one of the many, many remakes. Again, I'll recommend the DS version.

>Story is mediocre
Honestly, the best Final Fantasy story is 7, and it's basically "Babby's first Fight Club: the Anime: the Video Game".

I like the story of 4 more than 6. It's all just opinions, but I think it's better than 6. I like that people along the way sacrifice themselves for the purpose of the quest and the greater good. Each time, the group would have been fucked over if that person or persons didn't sacrifice themself. The deaths weigh on you as you progress and they add a greater sense of purpose to the adventure.

>It would utter fanbase boy bias to give it anything more than 5/10
Please.

>The mechanics are a 0/10
Welcome to Final Fantasy.
If 4 let you equip Espers, Junction magic, or change Cecil into a mage and Rydia into a warrior you would give it 10/10?

>it depends entirely on graphics,
No. You could always play a remake, where you would complain that the graphics are different than the original
>music, and story to keep your interested
Yes. This is the essence of a jRPG. The music is among the best in Final Fantasy and I personally liked the story. More than merely liking the story, I found the story to be the best paced in all of Final Fantasy. There are no lulls, there is always something going on. Where another Final Fantasy would drag on for 60 hours, spacing exciting parts far apart with no driving force, Final Fantasy 4 is a steady ride all the way to the moon. Don't get me wrong, I do like the story, but the real forte of 4 is the pacing.

>>2516405
ff7 had tons of tactical choices with the materia and a lot equipment that wasn't just direct upgrades. It was easy as fuck but it's miles above ff4. It also had far better exploring with more optional areas, side quests, it even had a puzzle every once in awhile (the battery). Even ff mystic quest which was designed for first time rpg gamers had more depth to it's dungeons and at least the same combat depth.

Combat and exploring is the sum of what you do in an rpg when you are not watching cutscenes. If the combat and exploring both suck than it is a bad game. You spend more time exploring or doing combat than watching cutscenes so they are more important factors.

>>2516410
ff5 had tons of optional fights and dungeons (the ice dungeon, the various summons you have to defeat to get to, the twin towers, mimic quest, etc) there was even a part where you got to choose the order you did the 4 tablet dungeons in. 6 and beyond mixed up the dungeon romping with new mechanics (the srpg kefka fight). FF games with more interesting loot or customization had chests with more interesting reward (rare materia, nifty items like the bone mail). Even the nes FF occasionally had a puzzle (ff1 requires you deliver the right item to certain NPCs, ff3 required you to find a hidden switch under a skeleton in the first dungeon).

ff4 is a significant drop off in combat and exploring

>>2515963
DQ is superior in every way. Instead of relying on cheap melodrama and teenage plots, state of the art graphics and retarded battle systems, every DQ is meticulously balanced and well-paced. Its subdued, traditional narratives never overtake the experience. Even big FF fans have games they hate in the series like 2 or 8, and the storylines I'm later games are godawful pretentious abominations. DQ is consistently good, even 10 despite fan fears is very much an entry in the series and its mmo elements are secondary and non-standard.

Saying DQ fans would love FF is very strange to me, FF represents everything I dislike in jrpgs as opposed to the former. I don't think you really understand the series if you say that.

>>2516412
I can't remember, does the DS remake give you the possibility to do the lunar ruins introduced inside the GBA remake?

>>2517124
No, the DS version has none of the extra dungeons / characters / equipment introduced in the GBA.
It does have the exclusive Proto-Babil superboss, though, which you can fight in the post-game.

>>2517159
That's really a shame, the new stuff introduced in the GBA is actually quite good,with it the DS version could really be the best version of the game

>>2517102
>every DQ game is mechanically the same and defines the term "grinding"

FTFY

I like some of the earlier Dragon Warrior games, but the series is in no way superior to Final Fantasy. The plot depth and level of characterization just don't compare. Mechanically, DW doesn't take enough chances. I'm fine with traditional turn-based games, but it wouldn't hurt to do something different once in a while.

Pic related. DW2 is my favorite game in the series.

>>2517239
I don't mind leveling in DQ at all, the fights are fast and satisfying. The only game that makes it ridiculous is the first one, and even then the SNES version of 1 turns it into a great game, I can forgive the original for being an experimental genre-setter.

I'd be very disappointed if there was a DQ game that didn't require any getting stronger to tackle a difficult dungeon. But hey if you like painfully slow battles and linear roads that coddle your exp gains so you never have to do any leveling, we'll just have to settle with different tastes.

>>2517239
>I'm fine with traditional turn-based games, but it wouldn't hurt to do something different once in a while.
Trying something different is what FF did and the series is shit now days.

>>2517289
that's because of horrible artistic direction and too much attention toward cutscenes and stuff. They only care about making their games look good, and well, that's what they've been trying to do since 6, but once they had no technology to make the appearence of a game completely take over the gam itself.
What makes the first games such classics is that each one has its own charm.

>>2503462
I loved FFX
Suck my faggot cock.

>>2517289
>Trying something different is what FF did and the series is shit now days.

I don't like anything post-FF12, but I don't think changing up the mechanics hurt the retro FF games in any way. Sure, a lot of them can be exploited when you start to learn the ins and outs of the games, but they're nonetheless innovative and hold my interest a lot more than Dragon Warrior and its tendency to rehash the same gameplay system over and over again.

>>2517102
I actually thing you hit the nail on the head there man

>>2517260
>experimental genre-setter.
Literally a knock off of wizardry.
Literally made by Japanese nerds that played wizardry and wanted to make a game like it but more accessible.

>>2517428
I don't think you've ever played Wiz if you call DQ a Wiz knockoff, it's a completely different game. I'll give you a revelation, everything is inspired by something, D&D was inspired by Howard, Tolkien and co. Who were inspired by romance literature, ancient mythology and biblical texts, and so on. Wow, it's like nothing is actually original!

What a stupid fucking argument. Obviously it's inspired by Wiz, it's still a whole new subgenre.

>>2516284
>each new piece of gear is strictly better than another

This is obviously false because the game lets you gear up Rosa and Rydia as mages or physical fighters.

And more subtly false because old gear may be situationally or mathematically superior based on special properties or stat multipliers.

>>2517571
Dragon quest isn't different enough from the PC games it was inspired by to warrant calling it a subgenre.

Japanese rpgs didn't really mold into their own genre until around the 16 bit era early games by the japanese were basically following a western model. Dragon quest has a cutsey manga feel but is mechanically more western than eastern.

>>2516412
>If 4 let you equip Espers, Junction magic, or change Cecil into a mage and Rydia into a warrior you would give it 10/10?

Not him, and it wouldn't bring it up to a 10 out of 10, but it would unquestionably make it better. Being able to make decisions is what makes a game, a game. Even if doing that didn't add a ton of strategy or interesting choices to make, it would at least be something. Even if nothing else it would have given it a bit of replay value.

None of the Final Fantasies are fantastic for it, but of all of them IV is by far the worst and gives you the least amount of choice.

>>2516412
I thought I layed this out very well.
Rpgs are about two things. Combat and exploring. If both the combat and exploring kick ass it's a great game, if one is good and the other isn't it's mediocre, if both suck it's a bad game. Story, music, and graphics play a minor roll.

It wouldn't be a 10/10 just for copying ff8's combat because the exploring would still suck.

Give it phantasy star's dungeons, lufia 2's puzzles, a ton of side quests/optional dungeons, hell throw in Mario rpgs platforming too and you've got a game with great exploring.

Give it the advanced character building of one of the later games, character movement like in wrpgs (ie pool of radiance), fix the economy so gold is something you have to budget and ration, fix the game's problem of having near unlimited healing, fix the scaling so grinding doesn't break the difficulty, that would improve the combat.

Throw in Terranigma's story and Chrono Trigger's graphics. There's a 10/10 rpg.

4 6 7 10 those are my personal favourites but i played 5 just a little so i can't "review". 12 is not bad but a tottally diferent game. For replay value i would say that 6 7 and 9, 8 has a real problem with this because since you get to really know the game you can rape it baaaaad, i mean minimum level (7) with max stats bad (and the enemies" mimic" your level) , so i guess its fun for a normal run and then a low level run but the rape is so bad you just dont play it anymore. 10-2 is the worst game ever made don't touch it, although the fight and job systems are very good and it as some replay value has to major problems, most broken item ever (catnip) witch makes optional bosses bruttally easy and the major problem is that you are playing with the most girly/childish/stupid bunch in the history of gaming, watch the opening video and you will immediately see the stupity all game is going to be.

>>2516405
>Who cares. Who. Fucking. Cares.

Not him, but the reason I like 1, 3, and 5 more than 4 is partially because of that sweet job system. I don't really like being limited to such an extent that I only get one possibly party configuration the entire game, only one way to beat the bosses, every playthrough feeling the same.

>>2503462
Classic advice: don't go into the series starting with 1 and expecting a revelation. Instead, play 4, 5, 6 in any order. No need to beat them all, just play them until you're feeling you're getting a hang of it and can make a judgement whether you're enjoying/not enjoying the game.

If you've enjoyed 4, then beat it and play 9. 4 is the paragon of SNES JRPGs in that it has the weakest party building, customization and non-linearity options in the series, but hooks you up with the characters, the world and the tight pacing of the story. It doesn't give you any choice but rather takes you on an exciting ride. 9, then, is essentially a love song to 4 that takes the character-driven narrative approach and the simplistic retro feel on purpose and runs with it. It even openly quotes 4 at places.

If you've enjoyed 5, then play 8. 5 has a simplified shounen anime story that doesn't take itself too seriously but instead focuses on party customization and puzzle battles of almost unparalleled depth among JRPGs. It lends itself perfectly to repeated replays and you will discover something new to the job system every time. There are less similarities with 8 but both games focus on deeper, more unconventional party building systems than usual.

If you've enjoyed 6, then play 7. Both try to combine 4's story-driven character with elements of 5's customization and puzzle battles, to varying success. Both vie for the title of the best FF ever, because honestly both have good, engaging gameplay and are presented well, however you might still find them less challenging than 5 or less immersive than 4.

If at this point you feel like you're into the series in general, play 1, 3, 2 in that order. I'd say version matters only for 3, where the DS remake and its ports are a completely different game, but I'll warn you that the GBA version and onwards of 1 simplify the gameplay significantly and make it less of a challenge.

Post-9 games aren't worth it at all

>>2512615
>it's not a great game if you take away all the stuff that makes it a great game

I know what you were trying to say, but jeez. I agree with this guy though >>2512636 in that FFV is a terrible starting point because the job system seems to be the only thing it really has going for it (which I don't think you're disagreeing with). It's a fun game, though. But it's better to play after you've played the more mainstream FF games.

>>2512825
99 heal potions, just like the good ol' NP strategy guide recommends.

>>2516098

How in the what the fuck. How did you even manage to do this to yourself? I didn't know you could play this game incorrectly. Jesus fucking christ.

>>2503495

>2 is one of the worst games ever created

Jesus fucking Christ

I know some people don't like it but could you relax the hyperbole a bit?

>>2519959
>99 heal potions
Thank god I had a turbo controller as a kid. Did they fix that in the remakes? You had to buy one at at a time on the NES.

>>2519832
>Story, music, and graphics play a minor roll.
IMHO the soundtrack itself turns ff6 from a 7/10 to a 10/10. But then again, I've known so many people who play their games on mute all the time...

>>2520062
Look at the rest of his list. He's a complete idiot, not just on that one point.

>>2520115
The thing about soundtrack is that you can listen to it without playing the game.

You cannot experience the mechanics without playing the game.

This is why music is a very minor part of a game's worth. If a game has bad mechanics but the best soundtrack in the world you can just listen to the music and skip the bad mechanics.

>I haven't played many jrpgs
I hate to say it dude but you kind of missed the boat on this one. If you didn't play these games either a) when you were a kid or b) when they were new, then you'll never see them in the same light as other fans. My best advice is to just stay out of Final Fantasy altogether. There's no real future for the franchise, and what little historical significance it had, has faded over the years.

Maybe if you were super into JRPGs, it would be worth looking into to help build a framework of understanding the genre... but I'd sooner recommend that you take the eclectic approach and sample the games from more overlooked franchises like SaGa and Megami Tensei.

If you insist on trying to get into the series anyway, then start with FF7. It's by no means the best one, but it is the "pivot" of the series, in that it is both on the cusp of the "old style" and the "new style" Final Fantasy. You could also argue that 4 and 6 are similar in this sense, but I don't feel that either of them is as much of leap as FF7 was due to the transition from 2D to 3D.

>>2519959
>fighter, thief, black belt, red mage

Not exactly an optimal party.

>>2521475
Yeah, they go with Fighter/Black Belt/White Mage/Black Mage inside the actual guide.

>>2520318
>This is why music is a very minor part of a game's worth. If a game has bad mechanics but the best soundtrack in the world you can just listen to the music and skip the bad mechanics.

Except a lot of times, music doesn't work outside of the context of the game. Some music stands on its own pretty well, and some doesn't. This happens with movie scores too. Not to mention, music frequently has personal nostalgia attached to it, so what's great video game music to you might not be anything special to someone else who didn't grow up with the game or at least play through it before trying to listen to the soundtrack.

I agree that gameplay is more important than the music, but I think you're excessively diminishing the value of music and what it can contribute to a game's atmosphere.

>>2521848
Not the guy you've been talking to, but my two cents.

I think it comes down a lot to what different people want to get out of games. Some people want to play through for the story, characters and atmosphere. In which case things like music, graphics and the translation are very important.

On the other hand there are other people who are interested in the game aspect of it. What do you get to do? How often do you get to make an interesting decision? To them, the music, graphics, story etc are all very secondary.

Most people fall somewhere in the middle, but those are the two extremes. And really what it all comes down to it just individuality.

>>2521848
I agree with you. A great number of mediocre European computer games are memorable to this day for their amazing music. If they didn't have that at least they would have been totally forgettable.

>>2521883
>Some people want to play through for the story, characters and atmosphere. In which case things like music, graphics and the translation are very important.
The problem is how subjective these things are, you can't really make a recommendation based on these elements. For example, I think FF8 has some of the best atmosphere and FF9 is ugly as crap, but I'm certain that a number of people here would vehemently disagree with me. When it comes to matters of aesthetics, it's very difficult to claim that any game ranks higher than another. Different people are turned on by different fantasies.

>>2503462
Play Final Fantasy VI. It's pure beauty.

>>2505548
>It's slow as molasses and just doesn't really stack up to the others.
You didn't play the PSX version did you? FF5 has probably the fastest pace out of the first ten FF games, both in and out of combat.
I don't mean to diss your opinion, I'd just surprised because my experience was so completely different.

I'm playing FF1 on Origins (ps1) and its so fucking boring.

I just got the earth crystal activated. My party is Fighter Monk Red Red and its easy as fuck, I'm super overleveled because random battles happen all the fucking time and I have like 100k gil, everyone has the best possible gear, except the monk who is better off unarmed. I'm like level 22 or something.

Never played it before, and not using a guide so there is a lot of exploration and shit but everything is so fucking far away it turns into a massive slog of grinding. Is the NES version better? I have that one as well.

>>2523672
Don't know about the NES version, but in the PS1 version there's a huge difficulty spike at the last dungeon.

>>2523672
>Is the NES version better?

Absolutely not

>>2523672
>Is the NES version better?
Except a few differences in shops and more glitches no, it's exactly the same.

>>2523672
Are you playing Easy or Normal Mode?

>>2523845
Except for the completly different and totally superior art style.

>>2523672
It's kinda like that, it was their first attempt after all.

I think I got to the same point as you before I restarted with a Monk-Thief-Thief-White party. Most of the game was easy with 3 good attackers, but I found how broken it was on the final boss with the two Ninjass constantly buffing the Master with Temper and every attack doing around 4000 damage. Even with that, the final boss took a while so I can't imagine how bad it would be playing normally.

>>2524000
Well, I was just talking about the mechanics and gameplay Captain Obvious.

>>2524000
>totally superior art style

This is a thief.

>>2523869
He's obviously playing on easy. No party with a fighter is a) level 22 and not Knight classes and b) not broke.

Either that or he's grinding and complaining about it. Enemies in FF1 give fuck all xp and gold, you can't accidentally be overlevelled and rich as hell in that game.

>>2524049
>you can't accidentally be overlevelled and rich as hell in that game.
Debatable, and he's playing the Origins version.
If you do a BALS TO THE WALL run you end up being pretty rich and overpowered by the time you reach Kraken, mostly because the only thing you'll be spending your money on are 99 potions, antidotes and maybe gold needles.

>>2524049
My favorite party is 3 Fighters and 1 Red Mage, and I never have money troubles except at the beginning of the game. I just throw whatever I find in the dungeons on my Fighters and it works pretty well.

>>2524045
At least he's got some character, unlike generic "you can tell I'm a thief, I'm wearing a bandana on my head" guy.

>>2517289
But every FF game has tried something different. II decided to try a more narrative-intensive game with a new way of progression (even if that new way ended up being unsuccessful), III completely retooled the job system from I, IV and V could be seen as II and III 2.0 respectively but IV introduced the ATB system which was big, and V's ABP makes it noticeably different from III. And I could keep going on from there. FF has always been about innovating and we got some great games from it, even if recent games aren't so hot.

>>2524353
He looks like a random NPC.

>>2523692
>>2524032
If I understand correctly they really buffed up Chaos's health in the remakes because people could defeat him in 1-2 turns in the original without much cheesing. NES Chaos is pretty small-fry compared to, say, Dark Cloud in FF3 (though Dark Cloud also has a boss rush before you fight it), not sure how PS1 compares though.

>>2524513
He's a thief, man. He's a street urchin. He's supposed to look like a random NPC.

>>2505421
>They entertain, but offer not very much in terms of a deeper experience when compared to more hardcore affairs

I don't think that this is true. Some of the FF's have very in depth mechanics.

Also, I'm not saying it's a good game, but how is XIII broken?

>>2524597
>how is XIII broken?
He probably maxed out his characters as much as possible every step of the way and then complained that the game is "press X to win"

>>2506956
>>2506917

Man, I hate this part. For all the money you get, you have to spend 100 every so often to rest at the inn (and even more money to revive characters). Sure, you can go back to Coneria to rest for 30 gold, but then you risk dying on the way there.

It's a bit tedious because you have to keep spending money to get money. I'm at level 5 and it's still taking forever.

First time playing, by the way, and otherwise I'm loving this game so far (It's not my first FF, I beat VI and VII).

Also, I got the ship without ever having equipped any weapons or armour. For some reason I thought everything auto-equipped after I bought it. The entire time I was thinking that I must be an extreme casual or something because this game is way harder than people make it out to be.

>>2508847

Use the game manual. You can easily find it online. It gives you hints as to where to go.

It's not cheating because it came with the game and the developers intended that you use it.

>>2506432
did you play the game?

>>2524653
You could probably spot elements of redemption in most any story. I'd argue that FF7 is more about confronting your past, overcoming fear, and being true to yourself than redemption. None of the characters in FF7 have really "sinned" enough to be considered a candidate for redemption, and while they do make mistakes or succumb to evil, it's not presented in a light that puts the characters themselves at fault.

I'd struggle to say that FF7 is a story of redemption, especially with FF4 coming from the same series.

>>2516284
>ff4 look like an NES game

well, it did come out in 1991. It's a step up from FF3, which was a step up from 2, which was a step up from 1. And then 5 is a step up from 4 in terms of graphics.

>>2524676
It doesn't really look like an NES game though. It has way more color depth than any NES game, and the enemies are actually sprites and not background images, so they can appear in front of a real background not just a pure black backdrop.

>>2524686

I should've mentioned that I don't agree with the statement that it looks like a NES game. I was just trying to give him an idea of why it doesn't look like Chrono Trigger.

>>2524676
>And then 5 is a step up from 4 in terms of graphics.

Is it...?

>>2524725

A little bit, at least.

>>2524725
Maybe slightly better art, if not strictly better graphics. Compare, for example, the tilesets in FF5's pirate base and FF4's Damcyan waterway.

>>2512825
>marsh cave

I just got to this shit today and, and man, are those Geists are annoying as fuck. They single-handedly screw over my party with stun every time.

>>2524725
There's more animation, for example Atomos's dragging. So I guess that counts.

>>2524526
>If I understand correctly they really buffed up Chaos's health in the remakes because people could defeat him in 1-2 turns in the original without much cheesing.

Origins gives him 4KHP as opposed to the original 2KHP, but since Saber and Temper actually work in Origins, a Master can still OHKO him on round 2.

Later remakes give him a whopping 20KHP but this only delays the vicious sack beating by one or two rounds.

>>2525546

And you haven't even dealt with endless poison or having your brains eaten yet.

>>2503462

anything final fantasy 1-7 is worth playing. I'd suggest starting with 4.