/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2492929
What world do you live in?
Sonic 3 & Knuckles has generally been regarded within the gaming community as the best Sonic game for ages. If not it falls right behind Sonic 2.

Are you mixing it up with Sonic CD?

>>2492935
No literally all I hear "it looks shitty" "to long" to confusing eyc

Sonic 2 seems be the only one people agree on. Assuming you like any of them.

How come he has one eye and two pupils? It's terrifying.

Because Sonic 3 is half of a game and there are somehow still people out there that never played it locked on with S&K.

>>2492929
>Which of the first three is the hardest and why?

Hard to say. Sonic 1 has a very different feel to it from the other games (it's a more traditional platformer), and if you're used to the other games it's going to seem harder. Marble zone (lots of lava and spikes) and labyrinth zone (water level) are fairly difficult, but the rest of the game isn't too hard.

2 is probably still the easiest, as the only seriously difficult parts in the game are in the last couple of stages (metropolis, wing fortress, and death egg), none of which are terribly hard once you've got a bit of practice at them. The enemy placement in metropolis zone makes them absolutely outstanding at getting in cheap shots, wing fortress zone has a lot of bottomless pits, and there are no rings in death egg zone.

3&K has some genuinely difficult parts, and a handful of the bosses require very precise movement (especially the lava reef zone boss). It also has some really easy zones - the difficulty (and level quality) is all over the place. I wouldn't say it's significantly easier or harder than Sonic 1, but I'll go ahead and call it the hardest because S3&K is longer.

Now, if you just mean sonic 3 by itself, then 1 is probably the hardest.

>& why is sonic 3 so hated while 2 is hyped the fuck out?
The general opinion on /vr/ (for those of us that aren't vehemently opposed to sonic existing) is that S3&K is the best 2D sonic game, 2 is above-average, and 1 is decent.

I personally prefer 2 (level design is tighter and more consistently good), but they're all excellent games. I don't see much hate for 3&K here from people that actually like the series.

>>2492929
sanic 3 is pretty great because you can spawn a shield every time you reach a star post. The shield powers are so abusable it makes not taking a hit a heck of a lot more rewarding than holding rings
fire > electric > bubble

>>2492935
This. I've never heard of anyone having much of an opinion disparity between the first three, and each sequel gets technically more advanced with added features and improved graphics.

I played Sonic 2 first, but I definitely prefer Sonic 3. Although it's shorter, it's way more polished, the zones have a much better sense of balance, the special stages aren't ludicrously unforgiving like Sonic 2's, and the soundtrack is one of the best on the Genesis / MD.

I feel pretty much the same way about Sonic & Knuckles, whether played stand-alone or locked on to Sonic 3. Both games are equally good for the same merits.

Sonic 2 is loved so much because it had great 2-player co-op.

Sonic 2 debuted Tails, and everybody loves Tails

>>2493082
Electric is objectively best because ring magnets and double jump.
Fire and bubble are only good for fire or water areas.

>>2493153
>Player 2 desperately tries to stay on screen constantly.
>Player 1 gets to actually play the game.
>Great.

>>2492929
Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the most popular sonic game.
I think you are referring to 3 alone, and yes, it was considered inferior to 1 and 2 at launch:
even while generally better, less levels and a save state pretty much mined its popularity.
Consider that players had to pay 2 times to play the whole thing, and also that sonic & knuckles stand alone was, and generally is considered better then 3.
I personally prefer 3 by a very little margin to 2, but why should I play it instead of 3&K?

The first Sonic is by far the hardest.
Even the barrell can't top labyrinth.

>>2493153
>sonic 2
>great co-op

have you not played sonic 3 with a friend? the third boss is great co-op battle, as well with the second, and theres so many areas you can reach if someone else is playing tails that it's totally superior than 2

>>2492935
Only complaint I heard compared to Sonic 2 is that S2 had better level designs.

Other than that 2, 3&K, CD are usually tied as the best Sonic game ever

Sonic2 > Sonic >Sonic and Knuckles > Sonic 3 > Sonic CD

protip; S3 and S&K are 2 separate games that have the ability to lock together for extra content.
2 separate releases
2 pricetags
2 full length games that can be played and enjoyed separately.

>>2493404
Sonic & Knuckles has been advertised since day one as an expansion pack on Sonic 3 and a majority of its content was cut from the initial plans of Sonic 3.

>>2493407
2 games
2 releases months apart
2 full priced purchases

What's so hard to understand about that?
I was around when it was released and it was advertised as a stand alone game that locked on to S2 and S3.

>>2493415
They were intended to be a single game and were cut apart into two halves due to time contraints.
They have a single continuous story and can be played as one item.
Sega constantly releases the two as a single compilation in their ports.
The Sonic 3 level in Generations is taken from Sonic & Knuckles.

They're both strong enough to stand alone as single products, which was Sega's intention, but they should be judged together as a package.

>>2493415
>I was around when it was released and it was advertised as a stand alone game that locked on to S2 and S3.

Sonic 3, before release, was already mentioned to come in two or three versions: part one, part two, and a "complete" version that has both parts on the same cart. Several magazines reported this.

In the end they never released a complete version and the expansion became S&K because lock-on gimmick.

i think sonic 1 gets the most hate

>>2493153
Sonic 2 Tails can't fly when player controlled.
Sonic 3 Tails can (co op and single)

>>2492929
Sonic 3 & Knuckles really is the pinnacle of Sonic.

The Advance and Rush series are decent enough, And Sonic Triple Trouble is pretty nice too. But S3&K does >nearly< everything right and >almost< nothing wrong.

>>2493167
Sonic 2 debuted Tails, and everybody loves Tails sexually.

>>2493464
>Sonic 3, before release, was already mentioned to come in two or three versions: part one, part two, and a "complete" version that has both parts on the same cart.
Yes, then they changed their minds and that is not how it eventually happened. Abandoned ealry plans have no relevence.

>>2493242
The barrel is only bad because it's sudden bullshit that's never explained.

>>2494053
This

Does anyone ever refer to The Hobbit Trilogy as two movies? That was Jackson's original plan and intention.
Despite how shitty you think the movies are they were released as a trilogy and no retard will argue about "Jackson's original vision".
Same as the fucking Sonic 3 + Sonic and Knuckles.
Installments in a series...

I imagine sitting through Hackson's trilogies back to back would be as much as a boring chore as playing the S3 + S&K back to back.

>>2492956

If you make a really mad face and look up it looks like you have sonic eye

>>2494186
holy shit that's scary

>>2494154
>Does anyone ever refer to The Hobbit Trilogy as two movies?
No, because Jackson didn't stitch the first two Hobbit films into one product and re-release it numerous times as one enormous movie.
Sega treats Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles as a single adventure and unless you really hate one of the games way more than the other one it's stupid to argue with their decision.

>>2492929
>Which of the first three is the hardest and why?
First because harder to get extra lives and more hazardous levels.
>why is sonic 3 so hated while 2 is hyped the fuck out?
3 is a bit dull without &Knuckles. 2 is just solid all around.

>>2493464
>In the end they never released a complete version
Well, in a way they did. Every subsequent reissue just combines them.

2 is the hardest simply because of the final boss. Then 3, again because of the final boss, then 1.

1 probably has the hardest actual levels though.

>>2494874
Not true. The PSN/XBLA releases are standalone. You can only play the lockon versions if you have both games.

Also, the Ultimate Genesis Collection didn't have the lockon games at all.

>>2494053
But S&K still plays as Sonic 3, part 2. They only abandoned Sonic 3 Complete because they could make more money off of pricing their DLC as a full game.

>>2495018
>2 is the hardest simply because of the final boss
Apply yourself. The MS/GG Sonig games would have you face all bosses without any ring.

yo niggas, this discussion is really pedantic

>>2494060
That's my point, a single obscure part in a level can't be compared to a whole difficult zone + a throwback as the final level.
The first time I got to scrap brain 3 I was actually scared and discouraged.
Sonic 2 and 3&k most infamous zone are probably metropolis and sandopolis, both easier then labyrinth, although metropolis was kinda cheap, but then again scrap brain is, too.

>>2495318
Metropolis was only cheap in the enemy placement and even that was easily defeated by not running at full speed all the time.

>>2494186
dude what's wrong with your face that this is possible?

>>2495328
That's my point again, sonic 2 is quite easy.

Sonic 2 is the pinnacle of the series and defined what Sonic is.

>>2495318
Labyrinth Zone is easy as fuck, what are you talking about?

>>2495446
But the first Sonic defined that?

I enjoy Sonic 1's Chaos Emerald mechanic. Trying to hang on to enough rings to access the bonus stages actually makes you care about getting hit beyond "oh well, as long as I grab one ring back." The bonus stages were fun as well, and in my opinion much better than the weird tube thing in 2.

>>2495562
No, which is why everyone always comments on how it's so different from the other Sonic games. Sonic 2 defined the Sonic formula.

>>2495554
So which is the hardest zone in the genesis games in your opinion, boss excluded?
I am kinda curious because labyrinth and scrap brain have always been the hardest areas for me, back then as now.

>>2495573
>the weird tube thing in 2.
I hate that shit, I've never been able to collect all emeralds in that game. No problem in the first or 3, but 2 is fucking impossible.

>>2496030
I've never got all the emeralds in Sonic 2 ever, all these years. I really hate the bonus stage too. Makes me wonder why people like the Saturn version of Sonic 3D Blast...it brought back that fucking special stage.
If the difficulty didn't rise so fucking crazy high after the first 3 emeralds it wouldn't be so bad.

What do you guys think of the Master System Sonic games? I feel like nobody ever played those but they're pretty decent games.

>>2496674
1 is sweet
2 is painfully hard but has some moments, they both play like sonic 1
chaos and triple trouble is laggy but come closer to capturing the sonic 2 feel

>>2496674
also check out game gear coca cola kid, it's allegedly by the same team behind triple trouble

>>2495554
Not that guy but Labyrinth Zone always killed me when I was a kid. I used to hate the underwater parts, which were even slower in the PAL version which I played back then. I drowned most of the time.

I also sucked at video games when I was a kid so that might explain it.

>>2496674

I played them on GG.

1 and Chaos are great.
Never could get into 2. Fuck that first boss.

>>2496709
first boss is harder than the rest of the game

I don't hate it

it's just short.

I still love the music, especially the Michael Jackson sub-boss music.

>>2496709
part of me has always wanted to try the Master System games.

>>2496709
I was dissapointed to Chaos as a kid. It was too easy compared to 2.

>>2496728
Green Hill Zone Act 3 begs to differ

>>2496709
>Fuck that first boss
What were they thinking?

>>2496728
Final boss is just as hard.

>>2496753
Not hard.

>>2496751
>It was too easy compared to 2
They all are too easy compared to 2.

>>2492929
At release, Sonic 3 was a bit short next to Sonic 2, and to get the "whole game," you needed to spend another $50-70 to get S&K.
some people also don't like the look and sound, even though I think it's far nicer than Sonic 1 or 2 in those aspects
like, there's nothing as good as Lava Reef or Hydrocity in terms of visuals, stage design, or music in Sonic 1 or 2, for example

and half of Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 is kind of mediocre (Marble/Labyrinth/Scrap Brain in S1, just about every stage after Hill Top in S2), where most of S3&K is good (biggest issues are SZ2 (it's not terrible, but there's still a bunch of dumb shit in it), CNZ (barrel was retarded, but it also flows really badly as a whole), MGZ (it's got a bunch of off-screen bullshit suddenly popping in, fuck those chain balls), and that's it)

Don't think there's any stage as stupid as Labyrinth (which isn't hard -- but it's easily the worst water stage in the series) or Metropolis (it's this stupid, long black spot on the game) in Sonic 3&K, either.

>>2496674
MS Sonic 1 is brilliant. Not terribly Sonic-y, but a good platformer.
MS Sonic 2 is crap, or at least I think so. Everyone tells me it's supposed to get better, and it never did.
Sonic Chaos is pretty okay, if short and easy.

>>2497008
first boss isn't nearly as hard on MS as it is on the GG's smaller screen area

>>2492929
I've only heard /v/ call S3&K bad. It's a classic.

>>2494060
I'm so glad that the game I had as a kid had a 100% save, so I can just skip past Casino Night Zone. Real shame because otherwise I really liked that level. In fact, it was up there with Flying Battery, Angel Island and Launch Base (S3 only) as my favorite level.

The barrel is literally the easiest thing in the world. Even if you SOMEHOW could not figure it out, there are only 3 buttons and 4 directions on the gamepad so you could eventually just brute force it.

Goddamn I hate anyone who bitches about the barrel. Morons.

>>2497060
>Metropolis (it's this stupid, long black spot on the game) in Sonic 3&K, either.

Except that maybe half the levels in S3&K are like that.

Sonic 2 still has some challenge even if you are running around as Supersonic... S3&K really doesn't give you any challenge anywhere once you get the super/hyper forms - you just run in the required direction for 6 minutes on every stage.

>>2497135
>Except that maybe half the levels in S3&K are like that.

such as?

Sonic 2 is like megaman 2, the game that made the franchise epic, that's why it seems that is the best game. Its better than sonic 3, but S3&K is the best sonic game until now.

And in the end, is better that 3 and &K are separate games, because you can play S2 with Knuckles.

S3&K>S2>S2&K>S3>S1

Sonic 3 alone shows that the universe were sonic lives is greater than him, and there are other heroes (Knuckles) that plays an important role to the history.

Knuckles saves the island, while Sonic deals with Robotnik (with tails support).

>>2497135
nothing comes close in S3&K to being a stupid, long black spot on the game
Carnival Night might be the closest (shit still takes me 8 minutes sometimes, fuck that shit), and it's still a somewhat fun stage.

most stages are top notch (Hydrocity, Ice Cap, Flying Battery, Sandopolis 1, Lava Reef -- Ice Cap and Lava Reef are the best by far, ignoring the stupid scrolling bit at the end of LRZ2) or just solid if not amazing (Angel Island, Launch Base, Hidden Palace, Sky Sanctuary, Death Egg)

>>2495093

I didn't say it was hard, I said it was the hardEST, can you read?

>>2498402
The whole stretch from the beginning of Marble Garden to the end of Carnival Night is on about the same level as Metropolis - okay in some parts, but generally speaking not a lot of fun.

If we're debating the length of the "long black spot" - I doubt anyone that's played S2 before would take more than 12 or 13 minutes between all three Metropolis zone acts, and Carnival Night on its own can easily take that much - not counting the shit you have to deal with in Marble Garden before you get there.

>>2497135
>S3&K really doesn't give you any challenge anywhere once you get the super/hyper forms
Managing to collect 50 rings on later stages can be a bit tricky at times.

>>2498402
>Sandopolis 1
Yeah, but Sandopolis 2 can suck a dick.

>>2499063
It's not that bad.

>>2499063
The only thing wrong with Sandipolis 2 is that it's too long.

>>2496674
They are bretty gud.
2 is a pain in the ass but actually is the better one since it's completely original and has generally good level design, except green hill 3 which is a giant middle finger to the players with all its lethal pits.

S3&K is the best Sonic game right there with Sonic 2.

Of course fans will always bicker about which of those is the best but that's like the 1% bickering over who's richer.

>>2493886
>Sonic 2 debuted Tails, and everybody loves Tails dead

>>2493415
>What's so hard to understand about that?

The huge cartridge slot on top of S&K's cartridge, meant for Sonic 3, seems to elude you.

>>2493862
I can agree with this. Sonic Advance is pretty nice as well, Advance 2 being my favorite.

I got to Dr Robotnik in Sonic 1 and he just laughed at me and made me go to this thing that looks like Labyrinth Zone and I died, how far am (/was :( ) I from the end? I can't take anymore Labyrinth goddammit

I've never beaten any of these games, even though I had Sonic 2 as a kid.

>>2500320
That sounds like Scrap Brain Act 3, which is the last proper level in the game. Up next is Final Zone, where you fight one of the easiest final bosses ever.

Man, Scrap Brain Act 3 was the laziest shit.
>let's recolor Labyrinth and make another act of it

I'm still bothered that any of the devs thought that "more Labyrinth" was a good idea, anyway.

>>2500329
>I'm still bothered that any of the devs thought that "more Labyrinth" was a good idea, anyway.
Would not have been my first choice of a level to revisit... game seems weirdly low on content in general.

I got to Metropolis 3 (?) the last time I tried Sonic 2, if I get these two wrapped up, is Sonic 3&K or Sonic CD the way to go?

>>2500329
>I'm still bothered that any of the devs thought that "more Labyrinth" was a good idea, anyway.
They probably thought "more Labyrinth" was harder, which, to be fair, was probably true.

>>2500329
final zone is scrap brain 3
labyrinth 4 gets threated as a whole new level in memory

>>2500351
>probably thought "more Labyrinth" was harder
fair enough

>>2500343
Depends. CD's a lot more fun if you go and explore it for the good ending than if you play it straight.
Very chunky level layout, doesn't flow nearly as much as Sonic 2 or 3&K, designed to jar the player a bit and stop accidental (and/or intentional) time warps. 10/10 soundtrack if playing JP version.

the updated release of CD is ALMOST the ideal way to play (the special stages run at a decent framerate, for one), but it runs on an entirely remade engine and is slightly off (also, it defaults to the Sonic 2 spindash instead of the Sonic CD one IIRC)
so I can't say it's definitive, but it's still great

3&K is fantastic, and you know about the barrel, so that won't impede you. Has a couple of issues, which were already discussed in the thread (MGZ, SZ2, CNZ), but it's overall a 9/10 game.

if you're playing on emulator or flashcart, the ideal way to play 3&K is Sonic 3 Complete (google it), which fixes a shit-ton of minor issues and adds a bit of customization options (but don't fuck with the custom options the first time you play, as tempting as it is for me to tell you to enable Sonic CD-style "move after jumping out of a roll", something you can't do in Sonic 1/2/3&K normally)

>>2500320
>I can't take anymore Labyrinth goddammit
Just get off the elevator you land on and go on the lower path, and you skip like 70% of the level.

>>2493386
I didn't play CD when it came out but got around to it a few years ago. Hot damn that is an amazing game. But for a 2D Sonic the tone is actually kinda dark and a tad depressing, especially in the bad future with the US OST.

>>2496674
Now if you wanna get really obscure.

>>2500956
Really should've been a Mega Drive game, it was way too ambitious for the Game Gear.
As it stands, most people haven't even heard about it.

>>2496749
As you're playing them just imagine that they actually came out way before Sonic 1. Imagine you live in a parallel universe where Sonic has been competing with Mario since the mid 80s.

>>2500957
It's a Sonic game with elements of fucking Metroid. It really is a strange one.

>>2495338
He's probably Sonic.

>>2493048
>enemy placement in metropolis zone

>>2493153