/vr/ - Retro Games

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>>2470260

Bionic Commando: Elite Forces

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCU8OlHza7M

If we're talking very advanced looking GBC games. Incredibly smooth animations. I have no clue if smooth animations actual push the system to its technical limits or not. But it looks nice. They even gave her a ponytail for no reason at all, just to show off how it realistically moves.

Super mario RPG

It pushed the super nintendo to the absolute limits and used all kinds of hacks to get it working right.

>>2470272
Yeah I'm not sure that's pushing the technology but rather taking the effort to put many frames into their sprite animations.

>>2470276
Doesn't quite count...the cartridge has extra hardware inside of it.

>>2470240
How about FFIX for Playstation 1? The game was fucking gorgeous in every way. Unfortunately it came at a cost, the battles were really sluggish and annoying :/

>>2470394
>the battles were really sluggish and annoying

What are battles in every FF ever.

But yeah, graphically it probably is the most advanced game on the PS1. Hard to believe that FF7 and FF9 were both for the same console.

>>2470394
back story on this one is is was down-resed and compressed to run on ps1, but was originally a spin of FF game for launch ps2. IF you look at the original texture files for the game re-compression and down res, they looks amazing. This one needs a true remaster someday, not new assets, but just using the uncompressed ones.

>>2470428
>graphically it probably is the most advanced game on the PS1
Huh? 3D chibi models on prerendered backgrounds, advanced? It's good looking, but probably the best looking 3D on the Playstation is Tekken 3. FF8 has some great texture work to hide the low poly models, too.

>>2470430
[citation needed]

PS1 and PS2 development are fundamentally different, you can't just backport halfway through development. And it's standard practice in game dev to create higher resolution assets and decrease the resolution as needed for the hardware and performance.

Development also started over 2 years before the PS2 was released, well before the PS2 was even publicly announced. Were PS2 dev kits even available that early?

>>2470276
>>2470280

>SMRPG
>an RPG
>uses an overclocked CPU inside the cartridge to help it run
>it still slows down
>an RPG

It's a shame the true power of the N64 was only displayed in a few niche titles

Conker's Bad Fur Day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF2O8PdzfOs
Start from the 13 minute mark

World Driver Championship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJRPX02A9yY
Start from the 11 minute mark

>>2470448

Wasn't onimusha originally almost finished on ps1 ?

>>2470474
I wouldn't call that "almost finished" :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvOFYZ5Cm2I

But a lot was certainly done.
In the end i'm glad it came out on PS2 though, the final game looks a lot smoother than the videos here. Gameplay looks terribly stiff in there. Certainly a very interesting video though.

Cannon Fodder for the GBC,

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFwbfN18x0I

>>2470648
That's just the intro. Fuck that intro. Everybody's just talking about this goddamn intro, while there's a whole game after it.
Also, it's misleading because it's the restored sound version. It sounds atrocious on the GBC

F-Zero X still seems impressive to me today, that they made a high-speed game with a buttery-smooth 60 FPS

>>2471959
f-zero x does some aggressive level of detail occlusion thing, when the ships are distant from the camera they get switched to a paper plane model made of like, 3 polygons

Any of Mark Flint's games for Japanese PCs could qualify, but ZONE for the PC-98, released in 1985, impresses me the most: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae4g5BNa16Q

This was back when the hardware was first being used for playing games, so ZONE must have been a shock for anyone watching it run in a hardware store.

>>2470394
I would say this or Gran Turismo 2.

>>2472004
It's called impostors, and they are standard LODs. You find them even in modern high end games.

Race Drivin' for original GB. It had full polygonal 3D enviroments and collision detection, though the framerate was meh and the 2-bit greyscale display put limits to the playability.

Jikkyou Power Pro Wrestling '96 - Max Voltage on SNES. Pre-rendered polygonal graphics and full digitized audio announcer track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bddwy0BGOzA

>>2470394
Chrono Cross pushed PS hardware even more than FF IX.

Recca for NES. Fastest shooter ever made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE5URFvZfHo

Donkey Kong Country 3, no doubt. Never seen a game that gen look 32bit as much as this one.

Final Crisis for the PC-88, a late 1991 doujin STG (not sure if it got a commercial release), is really impressive for the platform. It's meant to be played at 8 mHz, but is based on an earlier game from the same group called MeltDown which runs at 4 mHz and scrolls great.

Keep in mind this runs on an 8-bit PC with no hardware sprites or scrolling at 640x400 pixels. Not the most impressive game of its time, but it goes to show that even an old 8-color VDP leaving most of the work up to programmers can put out good stuff.

Full video: http://polsy.org.uk/play/nico/?vidid=sm2067996

>>2473087
>>2473095
>>2473295

Impressive, specially the wrestling one.

>>2473087
How is this any more impressive than Mortal Kombat?

>>2470470
>Conker's Bad Fur Day
Damn, that game looked great, and that was without the expansion pak. It was large,a lot of dialogue, and with decent audio quality.

>>2470394
So much jerking to this game

8 is better

>>2470648
This game kicks ass but not the GBC version.

I played the fuck out of the snes one on emulators

>>2473074
The original gameboy wasn't black and white.

>>2473512
It wasn't green-white either

>>2473074
reminds me of 2600 pole position

>>2473512
>off-white body
>black dpad
BTFO

>>2473616
PREPARE TO QUALIFY

>>2473512
>>2473560
It wasn't black and yellow either.

>>2473629
I think you mean PRPPRRQFFFFY

>>2473629
>>2473649

...not on the 2600 version.

>>2473642
It wasn't red and gold either, or pink and brown, or blue and green, or mauve and teal, or alizarin crimson and burnt sienna, or pink with white polka dots, or grey and yellow stripes, or purple with lavender flocked fleur-de-lis.

Move on. org

>>2470449
40keks

>>2473642
I don't understand why there are people who insist that the original GB is black and white despite the colors of the display on the contrary while at the same time argue that old console games should be played on old CRT TVs for "authenticity". CRT TVs weren't even standardized whereas the original GB hardware was. Though the palette of the gameboy dosen't specify the exact colors, the programmers already know exactly how the game would appear like on the original handheld system.

>>2473303
I thought the wrestler was the least impressive of the bunch.

This is a full 3D platformer for the GBA

Polygonal (except for cars) rally racer, also for GBA

>>2473295
>>2472309

I would have loved to have shit like this. I all I had growing up for a space shooter was Major Stryker. Needed moar.

Banjo Kazooie GBA. Not graphically impressive as such, same pre-rendered stuff Rare loved to do on the platform. But more that it's a full BK game in isometric 2D. Same moves, same game structure, loads to do and it feels great to play.

>>2474115

Not even because of the graphics, but I think it's fantastic devs putting good quality sound samples on cartridges. Like Fighting Eleven, the jap version from International Super Star Soccer. From a gameplay point my favourite from the list is Summer Carnival, shit is awesome.

>>2474120
Not retro.

>>2474129
Not retro.

>>2474141
Not retro. And looks like shit, like all pre-rendered GBA games.

>>2474148
I see, alright, that does make sense

>>2474084
Is this a slam against me or an expansion on my comment suggesting that black and white doesn't do GB games justice?

>ctrl+f little samson
>0 results

step up

Why does this totse fag post the stupidest comments in every thread he joins? He's like the retard of the namefags on this board.

>>2474442
What comments would those be?

>>2474563
Not that guy, but the fact that you're namefagging for no fucking reason -- you contribute nothing of value with any of your posts, just shitty, misinformed opinions. I've seen you obviously make up shit about technical stuff you have no clue about multiple times. You're not knowledgable and helpful like Don Rumata, you're not an amusing troll like Edgar, you don't post sexy pics like That Ecchi Guy, you're just some lame dude with nothing worthwhile to say. Yet for some reason you're so proud of yourself that you want to make sure we know it's you. You probably print out your posts and stick them on the fridge.

>>2474563
>>2474681

Holy shit, #rekt

>>2474563
All of them in about 5 threads I have read tonight, you make me want to hit things with your stupidity every time I see your name it's saying something stupid as fuck.

>>2474681
>Namefagging
Post ignored

>All of them
No specific example, troll ignored.

Winter Gold on SNES from 1996.

I know it's the Super FX chip but still, the sound and visuals are great. The menus are my favorites.

https://youtu.be/xRAU7QKWQWE?t=21s

>>2470446
>It's good looking, but probably the best looking 3D on the Playstation is Tekken 3.
Huh? If we're talking subjective aesthetics instead of technical accomplishment, I wouldn't even put Tekken 3 in the top 5.

>>2473295
Man, that's gorgeous. I love the style of PC-88/98 games. How do they accomplish that without scrolling?

>>2474149
Don't worry, people will definitely stop posting GBA games if you continue to shitpost.

>>2477637
They coded entirely in Z80 machine code, perfectly timing screen refresh (specifically working around the movement of the electron gun in standard 15/21/31 kHz RGB CRT monitors used for J-PC games back then) in relation to whatever graphical display scheme they set up for stored data. Nothing was glamorous about it, many programmers transitioned into console development because of the high-risk-low-reward nature of coding these games, but those who stuck around got very talented and, if they survived and wanted to program for a career, did well professionally.

>>2474149
Not retro. And looks like shit, like all pre-rendered shitposts.

>>2470428
>What are battles in every FF ever.
The NES/SNES FF games got you into battles right away, the ps1 games often had delays upwards of 10 seconds at the beginning of every single random encounter, on top of the already awful ATB system

>>2470430
>not new assets, but just using the uncompressed ones.
They don't exist anymore, what you posted was fan-made. Back then they didn't bother keeping original assets for their games, the same thing happened with kingdom hearts, so a lot of the game had to be remade from scratch when it got an HD version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT_Gk87JdK8

FMV on the gameboy color

http://www.nintendoplayer.com/unreleased/tyrannosaurus-tex/

Unreleased FPS for GBC

http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/17829

A point and click adventure game for the GBC, I think it's pretty impressive

Marsport had buttery smooth animations and a faux 3d environment. Gameplay was pretty advanced too considering this was 1985.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz09bzLrwcs

>>2470272
holy shit I never knew this game existed, looks rad as fuck. thanks anon, will play it

>>2479883
The Fish Files is incredible for GBC. Lots of GBA games are uglier. And the game is fun.

>>2480620
>>2479883
If I remember correctly, an italian team of developpers found a way to display hundreds of colors on screen.
Alone in the Dark for GBC uses the same tweak and it is incredible too.

They tried

>>2480923
I'd still fuck her.

>>2480923
bump for trespasser

For PC Engine hucard

Air Zonk
Street fighter 2
Samurai ghost
Darius Plus

>>2480923
Those look more realistic than half the shit on /b/

Why in fuck are GBA games not supposed to be retro?

Anyway, Spirou: The Robot Invasion on the is really impressive. It has smooth animations and during the game you change comic panels and the moment you leave a panel it fades to black and white, while the one you enter lights up in colour. Really cool.

Lucky Luke and Papyrus feature similar detailed animations.

The Smurfs' Nightmare has impressive graphics and an amazing soundtrack so unlike the GBC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlokRNcURKM

Asterix: Search for Idefix has really smooth and detailed animations. Obelix is quite the looker aswell. It has parallax scrolling and detailed backgrounds.

The unreleased Radikal Bikers for GBC is worth mentioning aswell.

>>2477641
>pointing out off topic posts is shitposting now


What has the world come to.

>>2487573
>Why in fuck are GBA games not supposed to be retro?
Because technically the system was released after 2000. The reasoning is a bit flimsy.

No one has posted Faceball 2000?

Full First Person shooter on the GameBoy with 3D graphics and 16 player multiplayer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQAhnNiOu54

>>2470446
>its chibi
>so it means the graphics are bad

Im not him, but you must be retarded. FFIX has so much detail into every model that it really doesnt seem to be a ps1 game. They have much more detail than tekkn 3. And tekken 3 backgrounds are 2d.
Not to mention FFIX graphics are MUCH superior than ff 8. Specially the special effects.
Compare leviathan summon in both games. FFVIII leviathan water looks like fucking jelly. In ff9 it has a fairly realistic water transparency effect (maybe the best on the ps1). Same goes for all ice spells.
I believe that the sfx in FFIX are even better than some in early ps2 games.

>>2488023
It's not flimsy at all 6 gen games aren't retro.

>>2488051
combining largely 3D focused consoles and the last widely sold pure 2D handheld as same generation is disingenuous.
What's the motivation for "6th gen" as cutoff anyway? When are we switching to "7th gen" as cutoff?

>>2488067
They'll never change, the rule just is.

Not that I wouldn't mind some GBA, seeing as it had tons of great RPGs and retro games.

>>2488309
yeah we've had this argument literally every day since the board creation and the rules never changed.

>>2488328
Really we should start allowing games from 2000 this year, then games from 2001 next year, and so on

>>2488524
Nah, that would just lead to "2001 is close enough, why not 2003, why not 2005, 2010, etc"

>>2488524
Then you've got a system of people wondering why a game on the same console can't be posted and that sounds like a big ol can of worms

>>2488524
No, once you start changing one rule then theyll all change. If you want to discuss gba, theres 2 other boards that are fit for it.

>>2488573
It's a legit question. Shouldn't be hard to justify the cutoff.

>>2488816
You can still set the limit to the release date of the system, or do time-independent criteria. Say, a NES game from 2015 is retro (not Shovel Knight, targetting the actual hardware).

>>2488889
It's not a rule change, the rule is just worded wrong. Instead of saying "systems from 2000 or before", say "systems 15 years or older"

>>2489340
we have this meta thread every single day, just let it go
protip: you can still talk about gba ports and sequels

>>2489343
That the thread happens every single day suggests that the topic is highly debated or difficult to understand, no? Sure, I can let it go. Tomorrow someone else will ask the exact same thing, and it'll repeat until the rules are easier to understand. What do you prefer? Endless repetition and you telling people to "let it go", or actual resolution?

>>2489350
That the thread happens often actually suggests that there are newbies from /v/ who simply think retro means < current generation and can't be bother to read and/or follow board guidelines.

Like you.

>>2489350
I'd really prefer if you'd be quiet.

Daily fucking reminder

Fuck your goddamn "slippery slope" arguments.

Also Thunder Force IV for genesis looks fucking amazing.

>>2489382
I can read them. And they make no sense. Especially the fixed date (because it increases the distance constantly) and the resulting effect of prohibiting a genuine 2D system.
I also thought this board is community driven. If the rules look obviously wrong, wouldn't the logical step be to challenge them?

>>2489401
I will be, just talking about it here and in this thread, since it came up anyway (I did not start it to begin with). I can guarantee you though, you'll hear this topic over and over, from other people. If the rules make no sense, people will trip over them.

>>2489419
holy fuck shut up

>>2488524
We already have games from 2000, it should be based on console generation.

I'm looking forward to the gba being retro next handheld gen.

>>2489402
> posting both the gba and gba sp

what

honestly they should be allowed next gen plus 3ish years when the ps4 etc are no longer supported by anything but sports games.

>>2489419
Fuck off newfag.

>yfw the definition of vr will NEVER EVER change

>>2489491
It would be reasonable to define unaccelerated or low-poly 3D and 2D as retro. Then the period would never change. Though that would not only pull in the GBA, but also the DS. Or you could require a minimum age. An arbitrary date cut-off though, is not gonna work. Then again, it seems like you folks love the ever-recurring debate about what /vr/ is, where you can be all smug and angry. You probably picked this dysfunctional definition on purpose.

>>2489501
I like it because it makes people upset and I hate every game after the 4th gen anyway

>>2489501
Retro means retro. I get that you're young and want to talk about Gamecube and GBA, because that's what you played Pokemon on but all across the entire internet retro does not include consoles like the PS2 or XB or newer. In fact, most people wouldn't even include 3D consoles like the PS.

These are the rules of the board. You don't go on /co/ and talk about anime, saying "lol it's all cartoons, fag". If you want to talk about GBA games, do it on /v/. It's not /vr/'s fault if that board sucks, that doesn't mean you get to shit up other boards.

>>2489504
I'm with this guy.

>>2489509
Technically the gaming community has pretty heavily warped the definition of the word retro.
It actually is defined as imitating the styles or fashions of the past.
Using the actual definition Super Meat Boy is retro, whereas Super Mario Bros is just an old game.

>>2489504
>I hate every game after the 4th gen anyway

Then you're simply closed minded as fuck. There have been excellent games from pretty much every generation.

>>2489528
That's nice, go discuss them somewhere else.

>>2487720
>caring about the fine print rules on a tibetan money laundering website

Anybody has a good diagram showing all the consoles for each generation?

bump out of interest

>>2473295
Damn, that's fucking awesome. Never seen before.

>>2489712
http://www.google.com

>>2489627
>tibetan money laundering website

wat

>>2489402
>that image
no
get >>>/out/

>>2489509
>I get that you're young and want to talk about Gamecube and GBA
never owned a Gamecube or GBA. Started gaming in the early 90s on DOS. my most recent system is a DS. Nice assumptions you got there though.

>most people wouldn't even include 3D consoles like the PS.
If 2D is the criterion, why include DOS with its 3D accelerator days (arguably far ahead of the PS1 in terms of raw 3D capabilities), and why exclude the GBA, with native 2D hardware and virtually no 3D support, down to the missing hardware div instruction?

>>2489350
No, it just means people are too stupid to read the sticky at the top of the page.

>>2473354
>Conker's Bad Fur Day
>Large
That game really wasn't very big compared to, say, Banjo Tooie, another great looking game by Rare. The graphics weren't quite as good as CBFD but they were damn close.

>>2489402
The fact you posed th GBA and the GBA SP despite the fact they are both a variation of the same console proves that they shouldn't be discussed here.

>>2490362
I read the sticky, and I keep saying an arbitrary year cut off, that has not changed the last couple years, makes no sense. I am pretty sure I am not the only one and as a result, people will challenge that sticky (or the rules), over and over again. As I also said though, that seems to be what you folks want, fuels your anger or something.

>>2490380
The sticky is only a year old, and the only reason year is even mentioned is becauset he Dreamcast is considered "retro" now.

>>2490372
>>2489443
You'd be surprised how many people I've seen claim that the original GBA models should be allowed but allowing the SP model would be a bad idea. I know it's utterly retarded, but whatever. So are the people claiming /vr/ would be ruined by the inclusion of the 6th gen.

The difference between Commodore 64 games at the beginning and end of its lifespan is pretty incredible. Would you believe these were both running on the same hardware?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjgWvcjidFg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oXcj5VtKqc

>>2490795
Turrican 2 blew me away when the shoot 'em up levels went into overdrive.
The third stage even featured multiple layers, scrolling in every direction.

>>2489402
I would include GBA as retro when the current handheld generation ends.

Xbox, Playstation 2 and Game Cube shall NEVER EVER be retro.

>>2490961
And why should the Dreamcast be retro? It's really not all that different. It's was actually a bit more modern than it's competitors.

>>2491191
Because it was released before the 1999 cutoff.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? It's based on dates, not generation despite the fucking awful sticky some asshat mod butchered.

>>2490365
He might have meant large is in the cartridge size, which was twice that of Banjo Tooie. But I actually think Conker looked a lot better than Tooie, it had so many more special effects.

I actually noticed the other day that in the section where you drive a tank in Conker, the headlights of the tank actually use the N64's very basic pixel shader to give the lights a slightly noisy appearance. It's ridiculously subtle, but it's there. And it's not just an animated texture. The pattern of the noise is truly random.

>>2474120
>>2474129
>>2474141
>>2489402

>>2491191
>>2491491

>>2491491
>le viper meme

You're worse than they are faggot.

>>2489402
If anything I'd argue for GBA since the games are similar thematically, but not yet. Maybe in 2016.

>>2491528
>Doesn't like Viper

>>2487573
Yo man, I really dig that smurfs game's tune you just posted. Is it me, or is infogrames music easily recognisable? I can't explain it, but each infogrames game I play has music with a distinct sound, and as soon as I hear it I say to myself "yup, thats an infogrames game I'm playing"

>>2470240
Asterix on GBA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hWBUdgIa0oE

>>2493119
wow, it looks like a pixelated ps1 game. that's really neat.

i would be stoked if i got this as a kid.

>>2490795
@ 8:50. That's pretty incredible. The animated flames, the falling snow...by the early 90s, programmers were doing things that even the VIC-II designers themselves hadn't thought possible. Some NES games did effects like this, but they needed add-on cartridge chips.

It's a pity the C128 wasn't supported more, because imagine what you could do with all that extra memory.

>>2493132
>Some NES games did effects like this, but they needed add-on cartridge chips

The PPU isn't as well explored as the VIC-II.

>>2493112
The GB/C games and a few NES games were composed by Alberto Jose Gonzalez and his style is pretty distinctive.
https://youtu.be/P5NZXMEtUoY?t=34s
Sadly he only composed for a 16-bit system once, but that OST also turned out great.
https://youtu.be/p6LMIrRG16c

But I'd be surprised if you recognized Infrogrames by this soundtrack.
https://youtu.be/BbvzdrEVmfY

>>2493132
The C64 port of Castlevania had animated tiles, but the NES game required an MMC1 chip in the cartridge to do it.

>>2470272
in exchange they just made a fucking song for the entire game hehe

>>2493146
That's not proof the VIC-II is better than the PPU, just that the C64 is a computer so it has RAM to do animated tiles while the NES is a console and needs extra RAM and a switcher chip in the cartridge.

>>2493151
The PPU is definitely better, but it's also a year newer technology. Scrolling is miles easier than the VIC-II, it has 64 sprites vs 8, and a bigger color palette.

>>2493157
It doesn't have any bitmap mode and the color palette sucks. Also the attribute system is much more annoying to use and unless you have a mapper chip, the PPU can only generate raster interrupts through the Sprite 0 hack.

Plus the PPU is still 8 sprites per line, it just has a hardware multiplexer while the VIC-II has to do it in software.

>>2493174
I agree that the NES palette is lousy. Plus the colors are based on NTSC instead of RGB values which has created endless headaches for emulator writers while Sega consoles all used RGB.

I guess this is on topic http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/25574/gdc-2011-the-next-steps-of-indie-brian-provinciano-on-retro-city-rampage

>>2490795
I read an interview with the programmer of Lunar Leeper. He said that Sierra were pretty pissed that the game ended needing expensive 16k cartridge ROMs.

Among retro systems, the Atari 2600, Commodore 64, NES, 4th gen consoles, PS1, and N64 absolutely did get pushed to the limit over their lifespan. Other systems like the Colecovision and Master System never really had their full potential tapped.

>>2493334
I'd say the Atari 8-bit computers never really got taken to the limit either.

>>2493348
Sure they did. See:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V043KPRO4ts

Or more recently:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwV-Gz0_Nhc

>>2493414
The Atari ST's processor had a 16-bit external bus and 32-bit internals (hence the ST)

I think he was talking about computers like the Atari 800, which no doubt is pushed to its limits by the demoscene too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY_YsoR11d8

>>2493414
wait, are you telling me this stuff runs on an 8-bit computer?

>>2493435
It doesn't, this is what an Atari 8-bit demo >>2493426 it's still impressive in the context considering it's a very primitive computer even for an 8-bit system

>>2493414
"Love to see the C64 do this."

That's a bit of an asspull because the ANTIC is better at raster effects than the VIC-II, but it's definitely inferior at sprites. Trying to do a side scroller like Turrican would be a struggle when you have only 4 sprites per line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bOjMekDCY

>>2493439
>it's still impressive in the context considering it's a very primitive computer even for an 8-bit system
I don't think you know what primitive is. The Apple II for example was a much more primitive computer than the A8-bit.

>no interrupts
>bleeper sound
>relies totally on NTSC trickery to generate color
>disk controller is completely software-driven

>>2493453
Eh, typical demoscene bragging/slagging.

I spend hours sometimes watching old demos and listening to tracker music. That shit is very nostalgic for me.

And yes, demos are nice, but the Atari 8-bits never had a game like Creatures or Turrican that really took the hardware to the limit.

>>2493453
ANTIC is three years older than the VIC-II. It would stand to reason that the A8 bits couldn't really keep up with NES-era gaming. Nor could the Colecovision if the video game crash hadn't happened since that machine also struggled trying to pull off side scrollers.

>>2493469
Plus the Colecovision had no R/W lines on its cartridge slot, so no way to add battery-backed saves or expansion chips like the Famicom. It clearly belonged to an earlier time and was not cut out for Mega Man or Zelda.

>>2493471
Ok yeah, the Colecovision came out in 1981 and used 1979-vintage chips (the TMS 9918/19). So fair enough if it was designed for Space Invaders kinds of games rather than Mega Man. But the real facepalm was the Atari 7800 not having any provisions for cartridge expansion even though (had the crash not happened) it would have come out in 1984, an entire year _after_ the Famicom.

Atari literally didn't have enough vision to see games progressing beyond single screen stuff with a black background.

>>2493457
8-bit it far too generic of a term anyway, the IMSAI is an 8-bit computer, but so is the TRASH-80 CoCo.

Also a really nice Apple ][ demo now that you mention it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hidSzEinqao

>>2493479
>Also a really nice Apple ][ demo now that you mention it

It's ok for what it is, but it can't touch the Atari/Commodore ones. If anything, that demo merely reinforces the point that the Apple II is 70s technology. I mean, come on. The ASCII character section makes me want to watch Star Wars.

>>2493492
Pushing a specific system to its limits is the only point of demos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42jBBrqn70w

>>2473095
Comes at a price though. The Famicom's 8 sprite per line limitation is glaringly obvious when you see the insane amount of flicker in this game.

>>2493578
and here I thought some of the flickering was intentional, to prevent slowdown. I guess the NES does not suffer slowdown when the limit is reached?

>>2491312
So in 20 years the Xbox, PS2, and GameCube won't be retro, but the Dreamcast already is because it passed some arbitrary cut off point on your head?

>>2470470

In, WDC, the race at 20 mins looks almost early PS2 quality if it wasn't for all the pop in. Especially the wooded section.
Gonna have to play this on an emulator one day,

>>2489402

Those things are clearly fucking retro now.

>>2491312
Son you are retarded as all fuck. Ps2 was planed for 1999 but it was delayed by few months .general rule of retro is (anything older then 2 generations back ) DC, ps2, GC, and xbox are all in 6 gen so not truly retro until 9 gen

>>2494417
It could be if we define retro as outside its marketable prime GBA is 14 yo. Maybe we should make the rule that its retro if device age doesn't get you v&. Considering 18 being most common used I would categorise retro as at least 18 - 20 yo

back on topic

Terranigma's pre-rendered scenes struck me as something that should have been on early PS1 rather than SNES. They look impressive, at least to me.

>>2494219
It can have slowdown; SMB2 is the most immediate example I can think of a game where the NES gets bogged down by having too much stuff moving around at once. Bubble Bobble has no slowdown, but an insane amount of flicker.

>>2494437
They're two or at most three layered stills. When I played the game back then they annoyed me, because they clashed so badly with the remaining drawn style. It was CGI for the sake of CGI, not because it helped the game.

Retro or not, this was the high point of the PS2 hardware

While I really don't like prerendered sprites in general, the Donkey Kong Land is seriously impressive. A technical marvel! The first one was really unrefined - a dredd on the old GameBoy but playable with the sprite coloring of the GBA - by the third game they knew how to do and it's good. Seriously good.

Not to mention they actually ported DK Country to the GBC.

>>2495360
>A technical marvel!
How so? Prerendering is entirely a production side tool. The sprite engine doesn't care about the origin of its pixel colors.

>>2495360
>Not to mention they actually ported DK Country to the GBC
I used to have that. It's not very good; later they had DKC for the GBA which is much closer to the original game.

>>2495387
Why is it not a good port?

>>2489402

I don't want xbox, gaycube and ps2 kids around here

they were annoying as fuck back then and they sure as fuck have not matured

>>2473616
Except for-real polygons!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUrEE8wIbhI

>>2480625
Any information on how they did that? I'm interested.

>>2496559
ITT: Sweaty unemployed middle aged man in a stained undershirt rants how he hates kids these days and video games died in 1985

>>2472309

>>2474084
>I don't understand why there are people who insist that the original GB is black and white despite the colors of the display on the contrary

Because "black and white" is a synonym for "lacking colour" for most people when talking about displays. They're not being literal.

>>2489402

Only way any of those are retro is if you're 20 or under.

>>2497043

See >>2496987

>>2497052

You're just grumpy that people disagree with you. I don't see how something that is only 15 years old can be considered retro unless you are quite young.

>>2497061
Atari stuff was certainly considered retro by the mid-90s and that was only 10-12 years in the past.

>>2497062

An Atari 2600 is also pretty basic compared to a PS1 and video games changed hugely in that time. Games haven't changed as much since 2000.

>>2497062
That wasn't the same situation as today. Video games had only been around 20 or so years in 1995.

Soul Star.

-Fucking wicked music
-Awesome graphics
-Fantastic overall game, for me the killer app of the SCD library.

>>2497062
In a marketing terms yes, because it was no longer supported. That is also why people try to push Dreamcast as retro because it's no longer mainstream and more desirable by the collectors than average consumer. The problem lays in how you want to define retro. Is it when it ends it marker viability or after certain time has passed? By that logic windows XP is retro for some and just old for others

>>2497032
People should just call it monochrome

>>2496985
The GBC palette system is a bit complex. You have 8 background palettes, of 4 colors each. Any of these palettes can be assigned to a tile of 8x8 pixels. That gives you a total of 32 colors.

Besides these background palettes, the GBC has 8 more palettes, dedicated to sprites. They're 3 colors each, because the 4th is transparency. That's 24 colors.

If you were to overlay your 32 colors tile map with sprites to add accent colors, that boosts your total count to 56, a number often found in the context of the GBC.

Now, what Alone in the Dark does is something quite common for older systems: Data gets modified while the screen is rendering. In this case, the palettes are swapped out. So instead of 56 colors for the entire background, you get 56 colors for a single scanline. That boosts your theoretical limit to about 8064 colors (144 lines). Theoretical, because you are unlikely to take advantage of all 56 colors per line. But even with a purely background palette based screen you end up with over 4000 colors in ideal conditions, and a couple hundred during normal scenes.

This trickery comes with a penalty: Changing the palette each line costs CPU cycles. Normally the CPU could use that time to advance the game loop in some form, but with this "high color mode", it needs to be ready to swap out the palette for the entire duration of the screen redraw. As a result, that effect is usually just used in cutscenes or when things aren't very busy. Alone in the Dark itself falls back to the 32/24 colors as soon as a fight breaks out.

>>2488049
>its chibi
>so it means the graphics are bad
That wasn't even what he was implying. Anyways the graphics and effects of FF9 were no more impressive than those seen in both FF7 and FF8; it honestly looked more like a compromise between the two rather than its own thing, which isn't that great in the long run. I'd say games like Vagrant Story were more technically impressive imo.

>>2497427
to clarify on the accents: even if a developer thinks a total of 32 colors is sufficient for their screen, it occasionally happens that they need more than 4 colors in a single 8x8 pixel region. This is where things get tricky with background only. By overlaying sprites strategically, you can improve the picture considerably.

The attached picture illustrates the palette limits and sprite overlays for a normal GBC image. This is NOT the high color trick, just the regular mechanism to produce good looking images on the GBC.

>>2491312
>It's based on dates

Yes, that's what the sticky says

>Not generation

The only mention of generation was that Dreamcast is retro, the rest of the 6th gen consoles are not.

>>2497427
>>2497447
Interesting. It's always cool to see how clever developers took advantage of underpowered hardware, like with >>2479880 or all-things-andy-gavin.com/video-games/making-crash/

>>2497581
Tyrannosaurus Tex also used high color for cutscenes. It's a real shame that the game never found a publisher. It would have been like the Crysis of GBC, a class of its own in terms of features and tricks.

>>2473095

how does it do the backgrounds? how is the nes capable of those moving backgrounds

>>2497043
i'm 20 and I don't consider those retro in the slightest, some people are just obnoxious about >muh childhood

>>2497631
If you mean the wobbly backgrounds, you achieve these by moving the background tile map between scan lines while the screen is being drawn

>>2497673
North and South.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ_a6evZ-ZQ

See at 3:08. It does the same effect for the bouncing train.

>>2497689
I'm not sure that's the same effect, because in North and South that's a small overlay, while moving the background affects the whole screen. In North and South it looks more like animated background tiles. The number is low enough that they all can probably be swapped out between frames.

>>2497697
So same deal with the scrolling effect at 1:58?

>>2497706
1:58 has the whole screen shaking. That's easiest done by moving the entire background map and the overlaid sprites in sync. Unlike Recca though, it's not adjusted per scan line. It's just moving the whole thing per frame. Technically it's no different from normal map scrolling, like in a platformer. Only it's done in a sudden and jerking motion, to give this shaking appearance.

>>2497714
I mean, the N&S video.

>>2497716
Yeah, in N&S at 1:58 the whole screen is shaking. That's done by moving the background, like in a normal platformer or RPG. Not an unusual effect. The NES is pretty much built for that function.

Don't die!

>>2480625
>If I remember correctly, an italian team of developpers found a way to display hundreds of colors on screen.

Could you use this trick on the NES as well?

how about them late 1996 genesis games. They are definitely showing off.
Toy Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HmB4ZOEMd0
Vectorman 1&2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qixxon3MY4

>>2500120
Toy Story was boring as hell though, and only had a few technically impressive parts (mod player in the title screen, having 100+ colour cutscenes, and the 3d level).

Vectorman 2 was godawful, but Vectorman 1 was incredibly impressive from beginning to end.

>>2500156
Yeah I never really liked the gameplay in toy story.

>>2477648
Assembly isn't machine code

>>2500091
No. The GBC can display 56 colors at once (see >>2497427 ), out of a palette of 32768 possible ones. The trick just bypasses the "at once" limit.
The NES only has 54 unique colors available. So there is no way to expand that.

>>2500241
Assembly is a set of so called mnemonics, short words, that map 1:1 to CPU instructions. So they can be treated as equivalent. Though some assemblers do provide some crude preprocessing, it's on a level that does not interfere with the actual instructions.