/vr/ - Retro Games

ps1

>>2467374
What did the ps1 do different?

>>2467378
was release way before, had way more games, did not require addons

>>2467372
Sega CD, CDI, Amiga CDTV, Neogeo CD...
1X
jaguar CD:
2x ... while the PS1 and Saturn had 2X drives built in

N64 needed like a 4X CD drive or an MO drive at least as good overall.

The DD is not CD based, otherwise it wouldn't have taken forever to come out.

The PCE-CD is not considered a failure. Computers had also switched to CDs by the time the N64 came out.

>>2467382
If they had partnered up with sony and released a minidisc add on at least two years earlier, it would have stood a chance.

And the PCE CD had the problem of being an add on for the PCE, which was released a year late and too hueg and with too few controller ports in the west.

THE PC FX was also released late.

>>2467372
An add-on is doomed to fail because they expensive and have a really limited market due to any potential customers being required to own the base console.

Hardware add-ons have never met great success (Turbografix CD and Sega CD weren't flops, but weren't major profit turners either).

The 64DD didn't solve the N64's biggest problem, which was the lack of games. Ultimately it still used a proprietary expensive medium, was created by a company that took enormous royalties on third party games, and attached to a console that was difficult to optimize.

The 64DD solved almost nothing.

TurboGrafix-CD failed?

>>2467546
The TG16 failed. NEC has success with the PC Engine in Japan, though, and while they didn't do gangbusters with the PCE-CD, it has a large library of quality games.

>>2467383
>The PCE-CD is not considered a failure

The Turbo flopped. Even in japan sales were mediocre. The add-on might have done better than say the 32X, but it still wasn't a huge seller.

>>2467632
It was more successful than the base unit by itself.

>>2467372
>How did the 64DD fail?
Post size is limited here.

>every CD based addon failed
OK, we've established you're not Japanese.

>>2467374
>potato

>>2467639
Only if you count the Turbo Duo which wasn't an add-on.

>>2467680
Why would you not?

>>2467632
cool story bro, too bad in japan pcengine outsold megadrive

No addon really does well in America for any kind of product.

>>2467372
64DD failed because codeveloper sony took the plans and made the playstation.

Optical succeeded because the byte/cost ratio is ridiculous. Metalized plastic vs microchip fabrication. It's just economics B.A.B.Y.

>>2467903
>64DD failed because codeveloper sony took the plans and made the playstation.
This is totally untrue; Sony had zero to do with the 64DD. It failed because of the uphill struggle hardware addons have, the late release of the device, the slow sales of the N64 console in Japan, and lackluster support. Only a handful of games were ever released for it. Nintendo themselves mostly forgot about it as soon as it came out. It was as bad idea to begin with, adding only an extra 64 mb of rewritable data.

>>2467915
From the Wikipede, so you know it's true:

The console's origins date back to 1988 where it was originally a joint project between Nintendo and Sony to create a CD-ROM for the Super Famicom.[17] Although Nintendo denied the existence of the Sony deal as late as March 1991,[18] Sony revealed a Super Famicom with a built-in CD-ROM drive (that incorporated Green Book technology or CDi) at the Consumer Electronics Show in June 1991. However, a day after the announcement at CES Nintendo announced that it would be breaking its partnership with Sony, opting to go with Philips instead but using the same technology.[19] The deal was broken by Nintendo after they were unable to come to an agreement on how revenue would be split between the two companies.[19] The breaking of the partnership infuriated Sony President Norio Ohga, who responded by appointing Kutaragi with the responsibility of developing of the PlayStation project to rival Nintendo.[19]

At that time, negotiations were still on-going between Nintendo and Sony, with Nintendo offering Sony a "non-gaming role" regarding their new partnership with Philips. This proposal was swiftly rejected by Kutaragi who was facing increasing criticism over his work with regard to entering the video game industry from within Sony. Negotiations officially ended in May 1992 and in order to decide the fate of the PlayStation project, a meeting was held in June 1992, consisting of Sony President Ohga, PlayStation Head Kutaragi and several senior members of Sony's board. At the meeting, Kutaragi unveiled a proprietary CD-ROM-based system he had been working on which involved playing video games with 3D graphics to the board. Eventually, Sony President Ohga decided to retain the project after being reminded by Kutaragi of the humiliation he suffered from Nintendo.

ITT: Underage who can't the difference between the SNES CD add-on and the N64DD

I don't think any system add-on has ever been a success. They're generally a bad idea. The 64DD never made it out of Japan, did it? Seems to me it was stillborn.

>>2467925
The 64DD was a magnetic drive similar to Zip disks, it had nothing to do with Sony and Nintendo's attempt at an optical drive addon for the SNES years earlier.

>>2467941

The PC Engine CD was successful in Japan.

>>2467964
Yeah, it and the SEGA CD, though not major successes, weren't flops, and having games like Ys Books I & II in NEC's portfolio made the platform more attractive.

>>2467389
Add-ons shouldn't be more expensive than if they were included in the base console though. It's like if you were buying a PC and decided to delay the CD-ROM drive or extra RAM for a few years. I think it was more a marketing/psychology/developer-cycle thing.

>>2467964
>>2467987
You guys are forgetting the Disk System. It was successful to the point that Nintendo only produced Famicom Disk games for a certain period and some of the big Famicom titles (such as Lost Levels and Zelda II) were released exclusively in disk card format with no cartridge equivalent.

>>2467903
That picture is fucking disturbing.

>>2467903
>64DD
>codeveloper sony

wat. you just a whole generation sir.

>>2467372
>>2467386
Nintendo TOTALLY dropped the ball in their dealings with sony!

Their actually considered sony's help in making a simple CD add on. They didn't feel the need for the help of an entity like sony for a magneto fucking optical add on!

>>2468130
Didn't they drop the contract with Sony because the fine print essentially would've made Nintendo third party on their own console while all royalties went to Sony?

>>2468142
this

>>2467632
Why even bother to comment if you have literally no idea what you're talking about?

Nintendo couldn't handle CDs because they're totally obsessed with DRM.

>It's why they couldn't cut a deal with Sony.
>It's why the 64 used carts.
>It's why the DD still used carts.
>It's why the GC used mini discs.
>It's why the Wii and WiiU are the only consoles of their gens to have region coding.

Nintendo is run by control freaks. It worked back when they actually were in control, but ever since the 5th gen, it's just been bad business.

>Read Nintendo Power every month back in the day
>Top wanted list - N64 DD topped it every month
>It never came
>those feels

>>2468267
Not to mention their current stubbornness with online and multiplayer. It's just pathetic that in 2015 they don't have a service like Sony or MS, it just hurts their bottom line so much.

>>2467372
The 64DD failed because it was delayed for so long and only launched in the N64's worst market. It might've done significantly better if released on time and worldwide.

Add-ons in general usually fail as they fragment a console's user-base and developers want to have the largest install base of customers they can.

>>2468297
Nintendo Network isn't quite up to par with Xbox LIve, but at least it's free.

>>2468142
Yeah, but why did they need so much help making a CD add on in the first place? They should have kept sony out of the CD add on project and then they could have looked to them for an MO add on.

Or they should have gotten someone else who could do MO well involved, but they probably were getting scared shitless of piracy, so they would have cringed at the thought of sharing a format with a zipdisk rival.

>>2468372
And the Nintendo Network has more content than PSN at least on the PS4 there is barely any games indies or VC.

I can't complain about nintendo network to be honest, all they need is get rid of legion locking and they are good.

really a case of being ahead of the times

>>2469734
How was the DD in any way ahead of the time? It was released a few months before the PS2.

It had 10 releases on the system. Two of those were expansion packs. Of the remaining 8 releases 4 were Mario Artist games.

It was also released Dec 1999. In March 2000, the PS2 was released, so it competed against a far superior system. Nintendo was also close to releasing the Gamecube in Sept. 2001, so most of their 1st party focus was on their high install base with the N64 and their upcoming Gamecube.

>>2467372
>In fact, how come every CD based addon failed but they somehow ended up replacing carts?
Because they were add-ons and not standalone consoles until the PlayStation.

Put yourself in the shoes of a game developer. The 64DD releases in Dec 1, 1999. The Dreamcast is already out, the PS2 is coming in a few months, the GameCube is coming in under a year, and there's that newfangled XBox console coming in early 2002 if you want to try that. Why would you waste time and resources developing for an add-on for a soon-to-be dead console when you can start looking toward the future?

>>2467372
how about i just make it simple.

Console has 1,000,000 units sold
Add-on has 50,000 units sold

which one are you going to make games for?

the DD was a different beast alltogeather though. it was development hell that killed that before it even was released.

>>2470186
>not standalone consoles until the PlayStation.
Except for the FM Towns Marty, Amiga CD32 and 3DO.

>>2470190
There's was a ridiculously fucking simple answer to that.

Make add ons.

All that such an add on requires is simply make damn sure there is some solid DRM keeping a lid on what add ons there can be. Keeping those pesky modders from getting their pesky hands into turf where they're seriously fucking unwanted! For good measure, it should be anything else other than a CD add on. And the best solution is nothing writable.

And just like that, you are FUCKED!

>>2470212
And, you know, the Saturn.

>>2470482
I thought the Saturn was launched after the PS1 in Japan. Turns out it came out ten days earlier.

>>2470465
This is just so incomprehensible. Really.

How did they ever drop the ball on something as mindbogglingly brutal as...

side loaded content?

For the same reason that the Sega CD/32x failed. It was an expensive add-on with a gimmicky feel that had a limited market since it was only available to those who already owned the console and were willing to drop however much money on a format upgrade with a limited library.

>>2467372
Was there ever a console addon that didn't fail?

>>2473000
What do you consider a failure?

>>2473010
Something that's installed in a sizeable chunk of the total base console at the end of it's product life.

>>2473014
Eh, that's what I would consider _not_ to be a failure.

>>2473000
The TurboGraphx-CD when you look at it relative to the base console, and the Sega CD when you look at total sales, would be the closest things to non-failures.

>>2473014
How many units did the Jaguar CD sell? Given the low sales of the Jaguar in general it may have been a successful.

>>2467903
>picture
Deeply upsetting.

>>2473029
Why should we consider considering the jaguar CD a success? It was pretty shitty.

>>2473183
Successful relative to its parent console.

>>2473000
PCE CD

>>2467925
I wonder how things would have gone down in an alternate universe where Nintendo/Sony stayed together on this project. Choosing to go with Philips was was of the worst decisions they made.

>>2473000
N64 Expansion Pak
PC Engine CD (in Japan at least)
Xbox Live headsets

>>2474465
accessories ≠ addon

>>2474517
>tism
Because an accessory is totally something you don't add on to the system.

Could a CD SNES have been successful? Not as an addon but as the standard medium? Say it cost $200 (or equivalent) more but games cost $20 less and it doubles as a CD player.

>>2476023
No, lol.

>>2476023
Probably. Seeing as how the SNES was a huge success.

>>2476023
Japan would've loved it and it would be blessed with countless RPGs, but in the West it would have Sega CD ports with slightly less shitty FMV.

>>2476045
The PC enginge CD disagrees.

>>2477325
>PC Engine CD

My understanding is that didn't even do that great.

>>2477414
Hey look, it's the namefag who loves to constantly pull shit out of his ass and make stuff up. Pray tell, where did this "understanding" come from?

>>2467382
Sega CD games have negligible load times. Most games load way faster than a PC game from HDD does.

As for why this junk fails, it is because it splits your own market. Nintendo was correct to put their addon chip for the SNES inside the carts and charge a bit more for them, rather than come out with some sort of CD addon or whatnot.

Also, the N64DD was NOT a CD drive, as been stated.

>>2467547
I think it's a bit harsh to day that the TG16 failed, sure it never did as well as the other consoles of the time, but it wasn't like say the laseractive or 3DO where the console just plain didn't sell.

>>2477428
>Namefag

Post ignored.

>>2477454
Then just ignore the post, you turbotard, you don't need to announce it.

>>2477516
The same can be said for the fag following me around just to spout "NAMEFAG!!!11111"

>how come every CD based addon failed but they somehow ended up replacing carts?

1. They were add-ons, which meant additional cost to the consumer.

2. The vast majority of CD games were shit.

>>2477518
Stop posting. No one is stalking you. Namefag hate is universal and timeless.

>>2477572
Nope, it's just you. Stop derailing threads with "OMFG FUCKING NAMEFAG D=<". You're the problem, not me.

>>2468589
>Yeah, but why did they need so much help making a CD add on in the first place?

I think it was lack of interest more than anything. Sony saw the future in CDs, Nintendo thought it was capable of little more than FMV games and interactive slideshows. So they were happy to let Sony take the burden of the CD part while they'd get rich off carts and the additional hardware grunt that the attachment would bring.

>>2477593
Stop fucking up the thread with your vanity, faggot. No one gives a shit.

>>2477434
And yet MK1 had load times, and neogeoCD got flat out slaughtered by load times. It's very apparent, CD drive speed seriously limits what sort of games you can put on. Why would you expect to see the load challenge when console software makers optimize the game strictly within the hardware limits? The selection of game types was horribly limited.

What's sort of hangup do you have against the idea of an N64 with a 4x CD drive or decently delivered "MO drive" that you need to chant out the obvious for?

>>2468130
I know its unrelated, but why the fuck didnt sony use the MiniDiscs for the PSP? UMDs where a piece of shit. I still have MDs laying around loose in fantastic condition

>>2467960

ACKCHYUALLY, It was magneto-optical, like minidisc. AUTISMO AWAAAYYYY

>>2479235
They wanted to sell movies under different licensing terms than DVD.

Sony has this weird obsession with developing proprietary media for every platform. It's what's currently killing the Vita with their weird memory cards.

>>2467378
it was really fucking cheap, sony sold them at a loss

>>2479257
>Weird memory cards

You mean Magicgate? The same thing the PSP used?

Maybe my, I guess you can say friend, had a modded one or something but there was nothing special about the memory card.

>>2479552
he said VITA, sony introduced yet again another proprietary format not used by anyone else

>>2479237
>It was magneto-optical,
No it wasn't, look it up.

>Though various prominent sources have mistakenly referred to the medium as being magneto-optical technology, Nintendo's own developer documentation refers to it in detail as being magnetic.

>>2479235
UMD was larger capacity. MiniDisc technology was well over a decade old at that point.

>>2479568
the point was to make people unable to rip/burn games and prevent piracy

it ended up like dreamcast with gdroms

>>2479030
I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. The Neo Geo CD has really long load times, sure. The Sega CD doesn't. And no, Mortal Kombat doesn't have particularly long load times. It seeks for a few seconds at most. The Sega CD has all sorts of games for every genre. The only thing holding it back, if anything, is the fact that it is not a particularly powerful system. So it can't really do, for example, first person shooters or 3d games.

As for the N64 and why its a terrible idea: it was only a moderately successful system. Not everyone who buys the console is going to buy an addon. Then, out of that smaller number who buy the addon, few are going to buy any particular game. It is simply not a good business strategy. It worked in the case of the PCE-CD only because the CD addon basically replaced the original, card based one. Also, the whole appeal of the N64 was that it still used carts, and had all the advantages and disadvantages of them.

>>2468267
Old post, but the 360 has region coding. It's just up to the publisher if they want to region lock their games.

>>2479562
Strange. The one this guy had must have been modded then because I'm positive it took regular SD cards.

>>2479998
Once again, this namefag is pulling shit out of his ass.