/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2467074
I really don't care what it looks like, but I just hate the blur and screen tearing on lcds.

so retro games have always looked shit?

I'd be curious for a survey of Famicom/NES developers to see if they took RF signal quality into consideration when making games. Early Famicom ports like DK and whatnot looked closest to the second to last pic (PVM quality) before they ever looked like a blurry RF image since they were originally arcade games displayed on RGB monitors. SNES and Genesis supported RGB out of the box.

>>2467083
>Early Famicom ports like DK and whatnot looked closest to the second to last pic (PVM quality) before they ever looked like a blurry RF image since they were originally arcade games displayed on RGB monitors

I dunno about that one m8. Have you actually seen old arcade game cabinet CRTs? They didn't exactly use top of the line tubes on those things. You can hardly make out scanlines, if at all. Of course, they still looked nice thanks to RGB output, but they looked nothing like a modern PVM.

>>2467074
why "should" they look like the third one

i don't get it

>>2467074
when i emulate them they always look like the first picture

imo emulated looks best in bilinear+25% scanline. just looks sexy as fuck 2 me.

>>2467078
>so retro games have always looked shit?

It's better to say "what sprites looked like". Because that's a single sprite very up close. Like 5cm from the screen with your nose basically touching it.

At a normal viewing distance, of like 5 feet, everything looks pretty sharp.

>>2467117
>>2467113

>nearest neighbor

>>2467124
Nose to the screen, you can see scanlines on my TV even through RF. They aren't ridiculous PVM ones, but they are clearly there. Troll thread anyway, but just saying.

3 is the best

>wanting to emulate visual artifacts from inferior display technologies because of a addiction to nostalgia

Use xrgb mini with scanline and it will look like 2, pixelperfect

>>2467074
Oh cool troll thread with people that don't know what real hardware looks like.

>>2467151
>not emulating properties of the superior displays that the games were intended for because it looks better

It didn't look like the PVM shot in my childhood but that doesn't mean that isn't the best looking one.

2 should only be used on a 480p CRT to make it look like 3.

>>2467158

"Best" is subjective, and many would disagree with you, therefor go fuck yourself.

itt

>>2467162

It's the best because it's not blocky like the first one, but not blurry like the last one, and the lines have some bloom on bright colors that keeps it from looking too line-y like the 2nd shot.

If you don't agree, you're just simply wrong.

>>2467170
Not him
PVM/BVMs have solid black bars.

So do most Sonys. Having bleeding into the scanlines probably means your set is way too bright.

>>2467074
they all look like shit

>>2467151

Old console games used a lot of CRT tricks in order to get games to look better or display more colors than was possible with the basic computer hardware.

Take a look at these side-by-side comparisons:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45026&start=90

>>2467083
NES was supposed to be blocky, just look at the early covers. Technical limitations prevented speedlines and more than 3/4 colors.

>>2467074
I don't care if it doesn't look accurate, I'm just sick of people using "retro" as an excuse for shit graphics.

>>2467127
laura b is cute

>>2467238
>googled laura b
>wtf

I thought this was /vr/, not /b/.

>>2467170
The "blurriness" was the devs using component and the shitty aspects of CRT monitors to create smoothing. It's supposed to look like that. I like the pixel art so I stick with RGB, but to each his own.

>>2467117
Exactly how I run my emulation.

>>2467251
You probably (I hope) mean "composite" RCA cables, not component. And CRT monitors are sharp and display raw pixels. I used to play emulators on the things all the damn time.

>>2467249
you're on the list now buddy.

>>2467249
I get /vr/ may be pretty focused on on-topic discussion but, you really wheren´t aware of candydolls?
Do you hate your groin or something?

>>2467127
>>2467238
>>2467249
>>2467263
>>2467346

You're all are making me curious

please STOP!

>>2467346
Oh man, im seriously scared of googling for candydoll pics. Ive seen some, sure, but something makes me think that the cops will show up at my door if i deliberately search for that stuff.

>>2467157
Camera sensitivity != human eye sensitivity. Things blur more to the eye than this picture would leave you to believe. Although you can get up close and see scanlines on a CRT, they aren't this pronounced.

Please save the pedo shit for other boards, you sick fucks.

>>2467446
>not appreciating photography art and the innocence of youth
Who's the 'sick fuck' here, eh?

>>2467458
I know nothing about candydolls, but the very fact that it is named candydolls makes me doubt the purity of the photographer's intentions.

>>2467174
Nah, he just means the halation. The scnalines are there, but the bright colours stand out far more than the bars unless you get right up close or use a camera.

He's also correct about the PVM's looking better than the alternatives.

>>2467151

Mostly I agree with you, but light gun games don't work with new TVs and can't be emulated.

>>2467158
Do you also play old handheld games on terrible LCD screens because that's what the games were intended for?

I actually like the look of pixels and prefer it on modern displays compared to CRT as long as the ratios are correct and there isn't any distortion

>>2467542
Yes

>>2467543
Aspect ratios *are* a distortion. The devs intended for the games to be perfectly square, non-1:1 aspect ratios are a limitation of the technology.

>>2467236
Those are just North American localized covers, though. Says nothing about what Nintendo of Japan intended.

>>2467557
Nah

>>2467237
>pixel art = shit graphics
Die.

>>2467557
It depends on the system. Some had very wide or narrow resolutions that would work best when squeezed to 4:3. Japanese computers used 640x200 which was displayed as 16:10.
It also depends on the game, sometimes the art was intentionally elongated to become square in 4:3. Ultimately it appears that most didn't give a shit about the small difference between 16:10, 4:3, 8:7 or 1:1.
Look at this for instance. The button elements and minimap look like they're supposed to be stretched to a square shape but at the same time this port was produced at a higher resolution with square pixels, hence the borders on the screen.

>>2467590
You should really learn to read. No where in my post did I mention I hated pixel art.

>>2467615
No, you should really learn to articulate your thoughts better.

>>2467619
Alright next time I'll put a big trigger warning that I don't hate all pixel art even though it should be obvious considering I'm posting on /vr/ of all boards.

>>2467624
How about next time you don't be a retarded cunt and just post exactly what you mean instead of posting vague whiny bullshit, and instead of throwing a hissy fit when someone incorrectly assumes what you're trying to say just clarify what you meant.

>>2467635
>and just post exactly what you mean instead of posting vague whiny bullshit

How exactly is saying "I'm just sick of people using "retro" as an excuse for shit graphics." vague? The only way I could see it being considered vague is if you've never seen a retro inspired indie game which isn't my fault because that's what the OP picture was talking about.

>>2467642
Not the bitch you're menstruating with, but how is insulting the use of a term in the title of the fucking board not going against the general trend or belief here. Fuck me you must be simple.

>>2467569
>Those are just North American localized covers, though. Says nothing about what Nintendo of Japan intended.
Funny, NOJ seems to think they're blocks too. #BTFO

>>2467484
>>2467441
The scanlines are there.
The bleeding effect is from the set being very bright. You can do the same thing with a slg.

People that say you can't see scanlines just don't remember them. Or weren't there to remember them.

>>2467356

Just do it. Absolutely harmless. Unless you think of a cute girl in various costumes posing in front of a camera or standing there in a bikini (you know. like you can see on EVERY FUCKING BEACH EVER) as being somehow "questionable" or "risky" (which tells a lot about the VIEWER, doesn't it?).

Also Retro Games

>>2467238
>LAURA B
NIGGA DON'T TEST ME ON THIS SHIT I KNOW WHO THAT IS.

>>2467806
>>2467238

Her name is Lera.

>>2467074
How about HD smoothing stretched to 16:9

>>2467750
Never said they weren't there, but as you pointed out, the brightness blurs scanlines out significantly.

What I was getting at is that cameras have different perception than our eyes. Just look at a video of a CRT and you get that rolling shutter effect that is imperceptible to a person. The only reason scanlinefags don't emulate that is because we don't notice it without the aid of a camera. Scanlines are similar, except you can actually see them if you look closely enough on some CRTs.

>>2467895
>What I was getting at is that cameras have different perception than our eyes.
That's true but scanlines are there and I can see them. The camera picks them up. If you sit way back they disappear for the most part. Or if you're like most people that are casuals and just turn the brightness on everything to 11 then ya the picture goes to shit.

I use a XRGB and generally have the scanlines off. I don't like how they look on a large display with bright scenes. However, the picture is definitely sharper when you compare two images with and without them. But just looking at the image with no scanlines it's not something I can really point out.

You can recreate the bleed pretty well as long as you don't want really dark scanlines. I can't really capture the effect when using darker scanlines well with camera. But it doesn't look right to me. I've gotten rid of CRTs years ago so I can't compare the xrgb to a CRT directly but plenty of people on the net already have.

I don't see it with emulators much but when scaling real hardware you really see, especially in text, that these games were made for scanlines. 240p leaves blank lines naturally. When upscaleing the active lines can really clash with each other other. The scanlines help with that. I think it's a minor thing though.

>>2467083
Not sure about Nintendo, but Commodore intentionally used the shittiest monitors they could get a hold to make sure things still looked ok on them.

arguing about this shit is gay

>>2467127
whats wrong with it?

>>2467750
I know I played most of my consoles on a shitty CRT TV over RF for years, until we replaced that and the new one had composite and SCART (though we only ever had the SCART->composite plugs to go in there anyway). Never saw a scanline on any of them, whether or not it was due to having a shitty TV I've no idea. They also never showed up on the big living room TV, and that was pretty decent for the time. We never had S-Video nor a TV with the ports for it though, so I've no idea whether that would have made a difference.

Seriously why the fuck can't you just let people enjoy what they enjoy

>>2468010
this

>>2468459
Why dont you use integer scaling
Non-integer scaling leads to "false" or "not exact" nearest neighbor
If you know what im saying

>people who emulate want to see scanlines

fucking why?

>>2467117
I'm picturing that in my mind and it's not pretty.

>>2468680
I can't decide if I like Off Road or Super Sprint better. Those are games that you just can't emulate, I loved the wheels on the arcade cab.

>>2468565
Personally I quite like the crystal clear sprites I get from emulation.

one on the right looks the best, they decent in quality going left

>>2468480
why all these euroniggers alwys talk about scart.
talking about quality and they even know about glorius NTSC.

Scart is not better than component.

>>2467729
faced.
>b-b-b-but that wasn't released in 1983!!!

>>2468689
You don't like
Ivan IRONMAN Stewart's Super Off Road
?

>>2467127
There is literally nothing wrong with NN, as long as the multiplication factor is an integer.

Not everyone has a supercomputer that can run all these fancy "realistic" filters. If you want the genuine experience of playing on a console with a CRT, play on a console with a CRT.

>>2471017
>responding to obvious idiotic bait

>>2471017

So, you play SNES games in 8:7?

Nearest neighbor is flawed, you either get non-integer scaling errors that result in uneven pixels or you get inaccurate aspect ratios, as retro games rarely used square pixels. Sharp interpolation filters like Pixellate or sharp-bilinear that only blur one pixel at most allow super sharp graphics without noticeable blur or uneven pixels.

>>2467074

my Trinitron looked much better than all of these actually
truly a wonder of a television

>>2471709
Trinitrons are indeed nice.

>>2467074
What is a PVM?

>>2467127
>I get upset at how other people enjoy content
Kill yourself kid

>>2471847
>trinitron
Now we're not even talking scan lines. We're talking aperture grille mask. Which in my opinion is even better...

>>2471861
>what's a pvm

Nigga, it's called Google. But since I've been put on this planet to educate dumb poor people like you...

>pic related , my pvm
It's just a really nice broadcast monitor that has double scan lines and pictur perfect crt display. They were like $3k when they first came out.

>>2472021
more like 10k

nice pic

>>2472021
Forgot pic damn it

>>2472028
http://www.broadcaststore.com/store/model_detail.cfm?id=683406

>10k
Maybe if we were talking Australian funny money.
3-1k at release. Check link dummy

>>2471861
Broadcast monitor aka pro video monitor.

>>2471428
>as retro games rarely used square pixels.
Do you have any proof for that? My experience is that most of the time they used square pixels so not playing them in 4:3 is the obvious choice.
I can still get integer NN scaling with aspect ratio correction for 320x200 due to my 1920x1200 display.

>>2472035
I...I...Is that a Japanese model 1 sets Saturn in the right?

>>2472053

Good eye sir. That is indeed
>pic related
>inb4 muh model 1 black controller is shit

Fuck you I have big hands and prefer that controller

>>2472050
We've been over this 100 times.
Google snes actual resolution.

It's not even 4:3 it's like 7:5 or some shit

>>2472042

He's probably talking about this:

http://www.broadcaststore.com/store/model_detail.cfm?id=670625

I must have had a really nice TV growing up. They looked as good on my CRT as they do emulated.

>>2472075
8:7

>>2467074
I think the far left looks by far the best. I grew up with CRTs and have always hated that blurry shitty look they have. I'd far rather just see straight pixels.

>>2467117
25% scanlines is the perfect spot
no point in going any higher

>>2468565
it makes the awfully low resolution less awful to my eyes
easy way of making it look less blurry

>>2475221

Don't know how many percent that has but I like SNES9Xs...sssss TV Mode filter.

>>2467729
dude thats well fucking sweet