/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2450786
Have you fucking seen the Doom general here? It's probably or single most prolific thread. Isn't WoW the best selling video game in history now? Beating out yep Super Mario Brothers (3 iirc because pack-in smb1s don't count)

I'll never understand the love for Doom. It's okay at best, it's not even like its the game that created the FPS genre. I could name so many other better games.

>World of warcaft
>not Ultima Online

Get this weak shit out of here.

>>2450794
It's not the best selling game in history, in fact it's not even in the top 40. It's not even the best selling PC game, Minecraft wins that honour. It is, however, the most profitable game, due to its monthly subscription system.

WoW was the first mmo that mattered

I know nothing about this Hall of Fame, but for some reason I get the feeling that the next inductees will be Halo, Call of Duty, Madden (pick a year) The Last of Us, and GTAV. After that each year the newest CoD will be nominated as well as token old games that everybody knows (LoZ, SMB3, Sonic, and so on).

Mario Bros. stands out as the odd one out to me.

>>2450843
True, but everyone and their mother has made mods or maps for it and the engine is open source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLHx3vO7KJM

>>2450865
I wish they had the Famicom version on display instead of the NES one.

>>2450865
What, the game that codified the scrolling-platformer and sold the NES outside of Japan, and has been built up into the most recognisable video game series of all time? Literally everybody and their grandmother knows who Mario is and it's mostly thanks to Super Mario Bros.

>>2450863
Pretty much this. Modern gaming is such a joke....

>>2450863
In fairness, it's a hall of fame, not hall of quality. Of course the popular, lowest-common-denominator games are gonna fill it because they're the most famous.

>>2450786
Who is this maintained by?
How is the process decided?
Why should I care about the opinions of so called 'video game experts' who are not named Alex Kierkegaard?

>>2450843
Name them. Name one game that has better map design.

>>2450863
>>2450906
This, keep in mind that Angry Birds was a nominee for this "Hall of Fame" already.

I don't know why anyone cares about this nonsense

>>2450863
As much as I hate EA Sports games which you can find for any retro system for 99 cents a pop, it introduced bros to video games. I'll never forget the time I hung out with a friend's band at a recording studio getting high while playing NHL94. It was the first time I saw people who wouldn't be caught dead being associated with video gamers playing games. For that, I could see Madden getting some notoriety.

>>2450919
>99 cents a pop
>not amassing dozens of duplicate sports games for free as part of various attempts to offload them in bundles with actual good games

Casual.

>>2450786
>Implying Doom doesn't deserve it

>>2450907
>Why should I care
It's an industry circle-jerk machine. You shouldn't.

>>2450843

Better fps's from 93-94 ? You've gotta be joking. Doom had excellent balance and incredible level design.
This is highly debatable, but I'd argue not even Quake and Duke bested Doom in level design and balance (talking single player here).

And I'm not even talking about the modding scene here.

>>2450786
>World Video Game Hall of Fame
>WoW
So the casual cancer's top popularity picks basically? Nothing to actually do with noteworthy achievements.

I will admit that for their respective genres all these games did have an impact on me and encouraged my love of gaming. Was WoW the best choice considering all the other games that came before it? Not really. I think a game such as Diablo or Diablo II should have been included before WoW.

Eq would have been a better pick than wow. Strange how fast people forget how important it was.

>>2451342
There's a few games that would have been better picks.


Phantasy Star Online, for example. As far as I know people still play that, and it's been on the PC, Dreamcast, Xbox, and Gamecube so people obviously gave enough of a shit to port it to so many consoles.

>>2451180
Why do you hate every warcraft game after 2 or 3?

>>2451342

EQ is to WoW as Jumping Flash and Crash Bandicoot 1 are to Super Mario 64. First, decently popular, but nowhere near the success or impact of their successor.

>>2451352

I loved PSO, but it's just space console diablo. Very few mainstream gamers know it, it didn't really innovate much or have a big impact. It was fun, but it's no hall of famer.

>>2451352
but in terms of importance EQ was much bigger, at least in the states. You couldn't go one week in 1999 without a news report about 'Evercrack' killing people. Made a huge impact and wow would have never existed without it. 90% of mmo's today are close enough to it to be considered clones. PSO is awesome but it didnt have that much of an impact.

>>2451367
>>2451369
Oh, I know PSO isn't Hall of Fame material, and yeah, my aunt and uncle used to play Everquest and Neverwinter Nights quite regularly. My mom had DSL so they came over often with their CRT monitors and towers.

>>2450786
Wait, wasn't mortal kombat the one that triggered the debate about violence in video games?

>>2450919
>NHL94
Got my copy complete in box for 99 cents the other day, fucking love it.

>all this mad
These should be non controversial picks except maybe WoW

Not that this thing even matters

>>2451374
Thats pretty rad. My pc couldnt run it so me and my friends would hang out at a neighbors house who was 20 years older than us and had a 55 paladin. Eq was so powerful you could end up hanging out with 11 ur olds no homo

>>2451385
Now go get Blades of Steel

>>2451401
Have a copy, fucking hilarious, I'm actually looking for a cheap price on a copy of Mutant league hockey

>>2451398
That's pretty bad ass. It used to piss me off when my mom would tell them to just bring their tower and use my desk and her desk since they were already set up for the ethernet.

Was nice when she got her house and I opted for the basement and was given the uplink port and my own router. I can put together a pretty nice home network because of that I tell you hwut

>>2451401
>Blades of Steel

Every time i read this title i mistake the game for roller games.

>>2450786
>Wow
>Doom
It's shit.

All of those games deserve a place in any video game hall of fame, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

>>2451354
WoW is trash. Game died after vanilla. Fucking horde Paladins? It was time to stop years ago and they just kept going.

>>2451475
Sure, WoW should be in. In about 20 years.

A hall of fame isn't the same as a GOAT list, it's about paying tribute to the legends. Unfortunately few people understand how hall of fames work, including the people behind this one.

>>2450786
Sorry for being offtopic but I would love to own a miniature Pac Man cabinet like that one. What are those called/ where (if at all) can you get any for how much?

>>2451486
Horde paladins make more sense than alliance draenei shaman.
One race simply brought their culture and way of life with them to the opposite faction. The other was retconned and pulled out of someones ass.

>>2451521
>Horde paladins make more sense than alliance draenei shaman.
The idiot fanbase that's left has to justify shit by listing something more absurd and lore breaking.

Yep great game.

>>2450786
>>>
>Anonymous 06/05/15(Fri)16:39:24 No.2451359▶
> >>2451342
> EQ is to WoW as Jumping Flash and Crash Bandicoot 1 are to Super Mario 64. First, decently popular, but nowhere near the success or impact of their successor.
>>>
>Anonymous 06/05/15(Fri)16:45:38 No.2451367▶>>2451374
> >>2451352
> I loved PSO, but it's just space console diablo. Very few mainstream gamers know it, it didn't really innovate much

Pong defined gaming in general.
Pac Man defined the arcades.
Super Mario defined games that used more than one screen of gameplay and is simply the most popular and best known video game character.
Tetris defined casual and puzzle gaming.
Doom defined the first person shooter genre.
World of Warcraft defined MMORPGs.

They did not invent the genres but they had bigger impact than everything before or after.

>>2451537
>World of Warcraft defined MMORPGs.
You're a fucking idiot. All WoW did was win a popularity contest.

EQ did.

Not to mention you're talking about a genre that has taken everything it is from other games.

>>2450786
Doom is literally the distilled essence of the FPS genre.
Everything to come since is either a graphics technology update, or a gameplay element that could be reproduced in the doom engine.

>>2450843
>I'll never understand the love for Doom
modern doom is basically "rapid prototyping: the game". In it's library of mods exists everything from ultra-realistic gun mechanics to anime inspired arcade sword games.

It's an easy to work with engine that has a shit ton of base resources provided already, so content ends up getting cranked out pretty quickly for it. This gives it some pretty long-lived replay value.

>>2451359
Crash Bandicoot was released two months after Super Mario 64. It only came first if you go by American release dates exclusively.

>>2451547

Don't worry idiot, I fucking hate WOW and I know there are better games. I'm also not a big fan of MMORPGs but WOW pulled that sort of games out of the nerdy D'n'D-basements and put it into mainstream.

>>2451570

Super Mario 64 had a three dimensional environment, Crash Bandicoot hat 3D graphics but two dimensional environment.

>>2451359
Jumping Flash and CB1 are primitive versions of the 3DP, Super Mario 64 is the first 3D platformer as we know it today. EQ was a fully fledged MMO.

>>2450852
At the time, Doom was installed on more DOS PC's than Windows.

>>2451662
im not very tech savvy but wasn't windows 3.1 just a program running inside dos?

>>2451673
>tech savvy but wasn't windows 3.1 just a program running inside dos?

Like 95 and 98 and ME.

>>2451537
WoW did NOT have a bigger impact than everything else before or after.

>>2451596
So Golden Sun, Neverwinter Nights, Everquest, et cetera et cetera et cetera did......?

>>2451673
It was more of a shell. Any dos program you ran would more than likely exit windows first.

Sure we can bicker about the "questionable" choices, but can we all agree that Pac-Man, Tetris and Pong all unquestionably deserve their nominations?

>>2450852
monthly players=/= total units sold.

>>2451376
many did.

>>2451687
Yes, I would say SMB also goes without saying
Other two should have been Zork and Breakout

>>2450794
The best selling video game of all time would be Tetris. When you include all its different variations across all platforms, its sold something like 145 million units and counting.

>>2451662
I was talking about WoW.

>>2450914

As much as I hate to admit it, Angry Birds deserves a spot.

As for more /vr/ nominations: Sonic, Out Run and Pokemon Red & Blue.

>>2450786
>Doom," which triggered a debate over the role of games and violence in society
That's not what makes Doom important. It shouldn't even be mentioned.

>>2451537
>Tetris defined casual and puzzle gaming.
"Casual gaming" is a very recent invention, and Tetris was a more complicated game than Pong anyway.

>>2451558
A lot of things have changed in the FPS genre, and Doom's engine has a lot of limitations such as not being fully 3D.

zelda fanboys stuffed the poll they had on the website, and it forced the organizers to pull it off

something tells me this is why it didn't go in this year

The problem with these things is that they're popularity contests and just keep reinforcing the popularity of certain games while neglecting all the others. Something like Mario is important to be sure, but there should be more to the history of games than just endlessly circle-jerking over the most popular and famous ones.

>>2451953
This, I mean just look at how the idea of a 'canon' has ruined music.

>>2451972
How has repeated melodic counterpoint ruined music?

>>2450786
It's a fair distribution. You have to consider they fact that from a marketing standpoint too, it would be stupid to only include games that their target demographic wasn't even alive to see them released.

Don't worry, your favorite classics will be added eventually. WoW certainly deserves a spot since it was the first game to make MMOs mainstream pop culture (no, Everquest and UO where not known of by almost anyone outside of PC gamers, which was a small demographic in the 1990s relative to the population).

>>2451981
I mean canon in the 'literary canon' or 'film canon' sense, an echalon of essential works agreed upon by most critics. As >>2451953
described, a canon leads to critical analysis of an entire medium becoming a circle jerk of a few highly praised works. Everything else slips into obscurity as new fans of the medium treat the canon as a checklist and don't bother exploring any deeper. This is the future of retro gaming.

>>2452025
>a canon leads to critical analysis of an entire medium becoming a circle jerk of a few highly praised works
COUGH CHARLES DICKENS
COUGH ERNEST HEMINGWAY

I say we have fun with this. Pick six games to be your nominees, /vr/. It doesn't matter what they are! As already demonstrated, they don't even have to be good! Use an RNG to pick them if you want, I don't give a shit!

>>2452121
>As already demonstrated, they don't even have to be good!

mad sims fanboy detected

>>2452121
We should totally get Shaq-Fu into their list and upvote them to all hell.

>>2452121
Midi Maze
FF7
System Shock
SimCity
Virtua Fighter
Rogue

>>2450843
>it's not even like its the game that created the FPS genre

Its not the inventor of FPSs, no. But It did popularise it.

>>2452121
We should do our own hall
Would be fairly simple to organize

>>2452121
Glover is a great game

>>2453641
Read the OP. It's not because it was a good game, or influential to the genre, or anything else that got Doom selected. It is because it was the one that sparked to most notable debate about video game violence.

>Pokemon Red/Blue/Green
Brought handheld gaming back from near death, started a global phenomenon, and popularized RPGs with children everywhere. While many have tried to copy and dethrone it, the franchise is still running strong today

>Super Mario 64
During the awkward adolescence of polygonal gaming, many gaming franchises attempted the leap from 2D to 3D and failed miserably. Nintendo showed everyone what good 3D gaming could be, and paved the way for many games down the road. RIP Bubsy

>Starcraft Brood War
What was originally conceptualized as 'Warcraft, but in space', this RTS took on a life of its own. With its great balance between 3 alien races with unique play styles, rich community of modders and custom map-makers, and support for LAN and online play, SC Brood War set the standard for all subsequent RTS games and gave birth to the e-sports phenomenon. It's too bad SC2 wasn't as good, but perhaps the shadow of the original is just too big to step out of

>Final Fantasy VII
Not the first JRPG to hit America, not the first Final Fantasy. Hell, not even the best Final Fantasy. But with its, at the time, cutting edge 3D graphics and prerendered cutscenes, this game grabbed the attention of millions and brought JRPGs back into western consciousness. This large focus on cutting edge visuals forced the developer, Square, to abandon Nintendo and their cartridges for Sony and their new CD-based system, the Playstation, changing the destinies of all 3 companies forever.

Other games which I don't feel like writing blurbs about right now:
Space Invaders: showed the world that gaming could be much more than pong
Donkey Kong: first big platformer
Game and Watch series (which single one best represents?): handheld gaming revolution
King's Quest: genre-defining, large legacy, many imitators
Street Fighter II: not the first arcade fighter, but the gold standard that started a craze
Grand Theft Auto III: started more than few crazes: sandbox, mature/violent

Yeah Doom on there is kinda weird/out of place, but WoW is even worse, and it's the only non-/vr/ game on there.

Space Invaders and Donkey Kong should be there instead.

>>2456986

i imagine they didnt want to blow their arcade lode all in one go, and wanted to represent multiple generations with their nominations

also i dont think doom is out of place, it had a huge impact on the fps genre and popular culture

>>2451934
>Doom's engine has a lot of limitations such as not being fully 3D
which actually helps it out a fuckton by massively simplifying map design and letting the designer just concentrate on making a good level rather than having to sculpt something out in full 3D (although, some form of real room over room support would have been wonderful), and Doom's engine allows for the third dimension to actually be important, rather than just being a purely presentational perspective like in Wolf3D, which wouldn't lose too much if it was top-down -- Doom's height variation makes it a bit less workable

most of Doom's simplifications were entirely to run at a decent framerate on machines of the time, too (Ultima Underworld's engine is advanced as hell, came out in '92, and would run like absolute shit for anyone who got it at the time, and for a few years after that)
like, Doom was supposed to have slopes and shit, and Carmack was working on voxel stuff at the time, but all that got cut for performance

and lastly, Doom popularized the FPS (it was a rather rare type of game before, and for years after, like up to '98 or so, post-Doom FPS games would often be called Doom clones -- look it up)
it single-handedly made FPS games popular, and that's why it should be in the hall of fame

tl;dr because few will bother read that wall of text:
>Doom's engine makes map design simple, easy, and quick (resulting in better levels)
>despite not being completely 3D, Doom's engine utilizes 3D space well (other than some oversights)
>a lot of the reason Doom's engine is the way it is solely due to performance (Id knew better was possible, but not at the speed needed for what they wanted to make at the time)
>the term Doom clone was a thing for years

i know segafags feel left out, but which sega games actually had huge impacts?

you can argue sonic was popular, but it wasn't really innovative, it didn't redefine the platformer genre, and it didnt have an army of copycats

>>2457043
Virtua Fighter invented the 3D fighter as we know it, and for about 5 years after, most 3D fighters followed the template it began (high damage+short rounds, ring outs, low gravity, directions+button strings for command inputs, etc).
it was also absolutely fucking huge at the time

Sonic did have a handful of copycats, and the whole 90s mascot platformer thing started because of him, but it didn't really redefine the genre or popularize it or anything.

Virtua Racing popularized polygon graphics in the arcade, but Namco and Atari had done it first (but their games didn't look as good as VR).
Sega was a top-quality arcade developer, but they never made a gigantic impact.
maybe Outrun was another HUGE impact game, at least in terms of what it did for Sega, but it didn't really change things in the industry

Hang On invented the full body "experience" style of arcade game, where there was something to the cabinet that you couldn't ever replicate on a console, and copycats soon followed.

I guess Phantasy Star 1 set a standard for storytelling in RPGs at the time, that was big (also, player characters that had their own personalities and weren't just cutouts for the player to fill in, dunno if there was anything before it that had that).

That's all I can think of. VF's easily the most notable.

>>2457076

Yeah Hang-On and Outrun were big.
I remember the first time I saw an Outrun arcade as a kid and played it, it's one of those gaming memories that I will trasure forever.

Virtua Fighter too, I agree.

Sega was very avant garde in arcades.

>>2456457

I'd rather see C&C in than Starcraft

>>2457043
Everything standard in a console now has been done first by sega.

>>2457384
Seriously. For example, people now cite Super Mario 2 as the first console platformer that could scroll both horizontally and vertically -- Alex Kidd did that years before.

>>2457418
Wait, people really think that SM2 was the first to do that?

>>2457384
I'm legit curious: like what?

>>2450786
I won't lie, I get mad a fuck seeing wow placed in the middle of the picture as if it was the most important of those games.

It's not even my /vr/ bias. It's just such a shit game, always was, it was never good. I can name countless 2000s games that I'd have put in before it. Posing it in the middle of the shot is just an extra 'fuck you'.

>>2457043
I don't recall any arcade games that could touch what Yu Suzuki did during his early years. Namco had dabbled in 3d before Sega, but Virtua fighter set a standard that Dead or Alive and Tekken follow to this day. Ghosts'N Goblins did more innovating than Super Mario Brothers.

Selection committee:

Jean-Michel Blottiere
Program Chair
Filmakademie Baden-Württemberg GmbH
(France/Germany)
Mike Kennedy
Founder and President
Retro Media Network
(United States)
Ian Bogost, PhD
Professor, School of Literature, Media, and
Communication
Georgia Tech
(United States)
Chris Kohler
Editor, GameLife
Wired
(United States)
James Brightman
Editor in Chief
GamesIndustry.biz
(United States)
Andreas Lange
Director
Computerspielemuseum
(Germany)
Sarah Brin
Curator and Art Historian
(United States)
Henry Lowood
Curator, History of Science & Technology
Collections; Film & Media Collections
Stanford University Libraries
(United States)
Mia Consalvo
Canada Research Chair, Game Studies and Design
Concordia University
(Canada)
Andy McNamara
Editor in Chief
Game Informer (United States)
Tristan Donovan
Author, Replay: The History of Video Games
(United Kingdom)
Aki Nakamura
Professor
Ritsumeikan University
(Japan)
Clara Fernández-Vara
Associate Arts Professor
New York University Game Center
(United States)
James Newman
Professor
Bath Spa University
(United Kingdom)
Chris Grant
Editor in Chief
Polygon
(United States)
Latoya Peterson
Writer and Digital Strategist
(United States)
Raiford Guins
Associate Professor of Culture and Technology
Stony Brook University
(United States)
Won Yong Park
Advisor
Nexon Computer Museum
(South Korea)
The Strong ® World Video Game Hall of Fame™
2015 International Selection Advisory Committee
Nina B. Huntemann, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Suffolk University
(United States)
Melanie Swalwell
Associate Professor
ARC Future Fellow
Flinders University
(Australia)
Steve Jacobs
Associate Director
Rochester Institute of Technology Magic Center
(United States)
Dean Takahashi
Lead Writer for GamesBeat
VentureBeat
(United States)
Jesper Juul
Associate Professor
Royal Danish Academy of Fine Arts
(Denmark)


http://adanewmedia.org/2012/11/issue1-consalvo/

>>2457043
Shenmue
PSO
Arcade in general
Virtua Racing
REZ

>>2457934
They did Japan-only online play with the Mega Drive

>>2451673

Yes. Until 2000 Windows was a system placed on top of the independant DOS kernel, the kernel would load first and then you had to type

win

to start it up. There was in the other direction an "Exit to DOS" option.

>>2457418
I'm pretty sure that you're talking about games that can scroll vertically and horizontally, but never at the same time. I haven't played much Alex Kidd, but I'm certain you could scroll either vertically or horizontally at a given time. Mario 2 worked the same way, except it scrolled an entire screen first, and then let you move.

In that case, Metroid beat out Alex Kidd in two way scrolling about 3 months prior.

>>2450786
>WOW, almost any other MMO would be a better pick.
>Tetris on gameboy, Boring as fuck.
>Doom, for fucking edgy faggots.
>Pong, same as tetris, and why the atari version? should have been the arcade cabinet.
>super mario bros, 3 is so much better though.
>pac-man, not a bad choice actually.,

>>2458114
Most Windows after 95 automatically booted directly to Windows but had an option to quit to DOS. But otherwise, yes.

WoW and no Half Life.

Fucking nerds.

>>2457934
I can't think that people think that. I mean, anyone who cares about that stuff even a little usually knows that SMB2 is Doki Doki Panic, so they wouldn't say that Mario 2 did it first.

>>2452121
Are you implying that Glover and Bayou Billly are bad?

>>2458226

>edgy

That word which meaning is forever lost.

>>2452121

Pong. Zork. Space Invaders. Dragon's Lair. Super Mario. Half Life.

>>2458104
Just looked it up and it seems cool for the time, but it seems like X-Band was way better.

>>2458264
That's sort of what I was thinking.

>>2458104
>Everything standard in a console now has been done first by sega.

I'll just leave this here.

>>2459035
Could you really do online multiplayer with that, because the only information I can find says that port was used for keyboards and shit (which I knew couldn't be true) and videos of it connecting to dial-up BBSs.