/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2451280
All of the better known games have something going for them so it's largely a matter of preference

I like Brogue and Angband. Angband has become somewhat unpopular over time, but it's actually fairly easy to get into.

All of my favorite roguelikes are not retro.
Of the /vr/ ones, the original rogue is the only one I've ever been able to really enjoy.

>>2451310
Oh, and Dungeon Hack. It's not a great game, but it was the first roguelike game I ever played, before I had ever heard of Rogue or its ilk, and coming from EoB and other first person dungeon crawlers it was a lot of fun.

>>2451280

Can't go wrong with nethack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9fAXU2iCBQ

>>2451321
OP here, looks really cool and different from the older rogues, will give it a try in an emu

>>2451280
DoomRL because it's simple and I'm not a hardcore fan of roguelikes.

Nethack and Slash'Em are good. So is Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. Those are the only pre-2000 roguelikes I've played for any real length of time.

>>2451518
2nding this

>>2451280
>which would you recommend?

Sil gets a lot of love here. It's a variant of Angband but stripped down to remove non-Tolkien monsters and made almost 100% lore friendly.

Azure Dreams

>Harvest Moon + Pokemon + Mystery Dungeon

>>2451561
OP, how steep of a learning curve would you say to be able to play?

>>2451561
I like the philosophy behind Sil but I really wish it was more lore-heavy. Combat is quite good but it feel like I'm playing Moria with Tolkien monsters, still fighting lots of worm masses and stuff at low levels, and very little flavor to the dungeon itself at all.

It might seem silly to care about flavor in your roguelikes when they're so stripped down compared to other games, but I do.

>>2451280
Back when ToME was "Tales of Middle-Earth" and not "Tales of Maj'Eyal," playing with the Theme module was my favorite. I don't think it was the best designed, but it was really cool having an overworld map that corresponded closely to the Lord of the Rings one, with lots of dungeons from the books available, and encountering tons of Tolkien-themed uniques and artifacts.

>>2451594
A greater vault inside the Paths of the Dead dungeon. Good ol' ASCII soup.

Most of the dungeons have some quirk, like the Paths of the Dead has creatures occasionally resurrect as zombie or skeleton versions of themselves, aside from having a lot of undead (and especially high-powered undead spellcasters like liches) in general.

I don't understand the popularity of these games compared to text adventures, a much more capable medium for dungeon crawling.
Yet, MUDS are the best option for this kind of rpg, and almost nobody bothers with a true singleplayer command-based rpg instead of making their constant Infocom clones.

I've been trying to create a good combat system in Inform to create just this kind of game. I literally can't find a single example online that isn't a mud.

Hello friends of /vr/.
I just finished yesterday Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup for the first time. 4 years trying every month...im very happy now. Yes, we can! lol

Confession: I've played ADOM for 6 years and I've never managed to even pass the Tower of Eternal Flames.

In fact, the only YAVP I've ever had was one on ITYTD in DoomRL.

>>2451654
Navigating a procedurally generated maze via a text interface sounds like torture

>>2451692
>Confession: I've played ADOM for 6 years and I've never managed to even pass the Tower of Eternal Flames.

What's giving you trouble?

>>2451719
I dunno, honestly. I just keep doing the same newbie mistakes, I suppose. I think it's my lack of planning, or maybe I should just grind out one character (GE Wizard or Dwarf Priest) until I finally get it right.

I just seem to overextend and die, and if I don't, I'll bugger up something like getting too much St drain in the Graveyard, not training enough with herbs, or something else altogether.

I spoilered myself silly and I know tricks like going spear+shield for max DV gains + orcish spears being the best basic early game weapon and picking Treasure Hunter, but to no avail, really. I'm just bad at those. The closest I can go with tough dungeon crawlers is something like Wizardry, I suppose.

I've only ever really played the original rogue and nethack. I need to actually try to finish that game at some point.

>>2451703
This. I can't imagine ever wanting to do that.

>>2451719
not him but i'd guess the Tower of Eternal Flames

>>2451280

>>2451674
Good job!

Maybe someday I'll ascend in Nethack. I doubt it. I don't have the patience, I just like fooling around. There still isn't any modern game that gives me the feeling of freedom that a good roguelike does.

>>2451727
Yeah you should probably grind out one character until you win.

Orc barb is good, though I would go delf barb for alterness and longer lifespan.

>>2451768
I actually am not sure how to play something that has barely any magic capability. Stuff like the ants in Puppy Cave just aren't something hackable through even on Berserk mode.

Got any more suggestions for baby's first YAVP that I could use once in a while?

also
>Delf
I really must have underrated them because now I see they come with Find Weakness. That rocks.

>>2451525
Pretty much exactly this for me, as well.
I find roguelikes damn interesting, though.

POWDER is also pretty fun. It was written originally as GBA homebrew, so it doesn't require you memorize a lot of keymappings.

Also, related URLs for Roguelike generals:
http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://www.roguetemple.com/

I never see Cataclysm DDA mentioned when someone asks for favorite roguelikes, and I'll never understand why.

I just find it boring to constantly grind through dungeons killing random enemies, with the only depth being in basically calculating how to minmax a character or combine spells, buffs and items.

I always feel so accomplished when I manage to craft something useful for myself that will help me survive. Not to mention having the ability of finding, repairing, modifying and using vehicles.

>>2451732
OP here, just checked a YT vid of the SNES version and it looks really good.

>>2451654
"Dungeon crawling" in text adventures, even ones actually set in underground areas, barely has anything to do with the experience of roguelikes. Adventure games are all about exploration and puzzles to reach the next area, roguelikes are all about tactical combat with the exploration more a matter of clearing out the level, seeing what you find, or managing resources like food to determine how much time you can spend.

It's especially silly to make the comparison to roguelikes, which have almost no puzzles at all, compared to Dungeon Master or other similar dungeon crawling games. Even if you're just trying to stir the pot, that's a really weird claim to make. I mean, I hope you wouldn't say that text adventures are better suited for tactical turn-based combat on a grid, too.

>>2451703
Roguelikes rarely have actual mazes unless it's a special maze dungeon level/area. It's rarely hard to figure out where you can go and how to get there. And in fact, most text adventures past the Zork era don't have mazes either.

I only like ADOM from the several roguelikes I've tried. Played that game a lot, then got bored, but I'll give it a try when the next stable version is released.

>>2452097

>>2451280
NetHack has a horrifying user interface, ADOM is a buggy proprietary cash-in and DCSS is too balanced to be interesting. I haven't tried anything else.

>>2452134
try IVAN or its variants, like CLIVAN.

I am a simple man
>Rogue
>Larn
>Hack
and i havent completed a single one, been trying autistically for 5 years

Can I get some Infra Arcana love? I never see any posts about it. My #1 pick for playing a game at 1am.

>>2452134
POWDER sounds up your alley.

>>2452286
It is great and actually not a bad game for a newb either

>>2452134
>ADOM
>proprietary cash-in
wot

Let the guy make his zogbux, the free game is certainly complete

>>2451654
SanctuaryRPG sounds like what you're asking for. Started as a free game on Reddit or something before being sold on steam and gog.
It's pretty cool but it is sometimes too silly for its own good.

>>2451787
>Stuff like the ants in Puppy Cave just aren't something hackable through even on Berserk mode.

I kite them to the stairs and take them one at a time on the above floor. It helps to pick a speed trait like long stride to help you outrun them.

For choices of race, delfs are mega stronk. They seem frail, but they have alertness (the best defensive skill by far) and find weakness, which at 100 gives them a 25% crit rate. Pair it with a class like barb or beastfighter, and you're set. Aiming for the Raven starsign gives you the runed trident at lvl 16, meaning the hardest enemies in the game are now nothing.

I really like dwarf fortress adventure mode

The only two I've really played are DCSS and DoomRL.

DCSS can be fun, but it has some stuff that never ceases to annoy the shit out of me and kill all the fun. I've long since lost count of all the characters I get up to level 8-16, get blasted into the Abyss cause some fucker had a weapon of Random Effects or similar, and then die trying to find an exit. In all the games I've played, all the characters I've had, not one has EVER found the fucking exit from the Abyss. These days I just quit the moment I get thrown there since I know where it's going to go. Removing the Abyss altogether would make it a 10/10 game, but I doubt they will ever do that. Don't even get me started on the low-level uniques, that shit is just a kick in the dick for new players.

DoomRL can be decent fun, but you might as well reset once you reach Demios if the RNG gods haven't been kind. I know RNG is a big part of these games and all, but I still think it's bullshit to get that deep with a character and still have no armor, no boots, no rocket launcher, and no plasma rifle.

>>2451280
There's a thread on /vg/. I like TOME.

Dungeon Crawl

>>2451280

>>2452625
>Abyss
Doesn't being a chaos knight fix this? I don't remember, but the best thing about DCSS is deep dwarves, because resting easy to heal is stupid.

>>2452625
>In all the games I've played, all the characters I've had, not one has EVER found the fucking exit from the Abyss

It's significantly less terrible in current versions where the Abyss has multiple levels. The trick is to quickly dive to Abyss: 3 where you're guaranteed to quickly find an exit.

>>2452176
Take notes man. That's the only way I could beat nethack, and it only took a little over two years to ascend. Really my break came from figuring out how to do one thing very well. In time I'll try to beat nethack again not abusing my little secret. I'd post my spoiler, but got the formatting wrong last time, so this is just a test

>>2453960
E L B E R E T H
L
B
E
R
E
T
H

>>2453960
............well?

>>2453960
Tell me you piece of shit

>>2454093
check >>2454060

It took me about three to four years to ascend the first time, and I was playing a monk so wanted a bunch of conducts like weaponless / vegetarian / polyless / artifact-wishless / etc. before ascending.
That was just about ten years ago so I don't remember all the particular details.
The most I can advise is to look through the spoilers, and often, and keep playing regularly. I prefer Sokoban first, some people prefer mines first, rely on pets heavily until you complete both, don't advance dlvls or exp levels too quickly, conserve food, don't do stupid shit like quaff from fountains, kick sinks or any of that, don't bother with a protection racket (rely on pet to steal items from shops, sell them back, descend to Minetown on Xp 1 and gain a huge amount of -AC by donating) until you've ascended at least once because they're unbelievably hard to pull off. Also don't kill Izchak.

bump

Brogue is really fucking good and easy to play. Never ascended though.

I've been addicted to ADOM recently.

Finally pulled off an ultra. Hardest part was getting that wish in the beginning. Managed to do it by stacking up my luck with fate smiles, lucky and the Ankh, then drinking from a pool with the same color as my character's eyes. The rest of the game was smooth.

I thought that would kill the ADOM urges, but I've been tempted to return and try out a weaponsmith, wizard or archer for the crazy stacks of arrows.

>>2451280
any rogue likes for genesis/master system?

>>2455728
Fatal Labyrinth
Toejam & Earl

>>2455753
>Toejam & Earl
I love the game, but saying that's anywhere close to a roguelike is crazypants.

>>2455838
I never even played it tbh, I presume it's a "roguelite" of some sort.

Fatal Labyrinth is the real deal, though.

>>2455728
OP: Yes please!!

>>2455753
thank you!

>>2456063
I forgot to mention Dragon Crystal, which is apparently pretty similar to Fatal Labyrinth

>>2455845
They're both roguelites, really. Anything with only graphical modes is. Having the option to play with ASCII graphics is one of the defining elements of a roguelike. I'm not saying that having no graphics makes a game better, what a daft thing that would be to say, but we shouldn't go redefining genres.

>>2457351
>Having the option to play with ASCII graphics is one of the defining elements of a roguelike

Nonsense, graphics are not mechanics. As long as it's still grid-based it changes literally nothing about how the game plays.

>>2451313
Hmm, I think you can, but it's just my opinion. The design for the game was basically a few maintainers throwing together tons of variants... I think the game could have benefited from culling features.

I'm digging ADOM right now. Plus fits in /vr/ released in 1994. Nice change of pace given that there's a big overworld with a grand quest combined with traditional roguelike elements.

>>2457379
I agree that it's not necessary for a roguelike to have this quality, but a lot of people appreciate the tradition of using your imagination.

I've played and loved DoomRL. Are the any roguelikes more like it, but not QUITE as balls crushingly hard?
Ranged combat would be nice, and i'm fine with any setting, doesn't have to be sci-fi like DoomRL.

>>2458170
Why is your dunjun so big?

>>2451732
It's so sad to me only one of you has said Shiren. It really is one of the best minimalist roguelikes ever made and an absolutely brilliant game. The SNES version is the toughest, but the DS remake is almost as good and has a pretty great translation.

Just stay away from later Shiren titles. Oddly enough, Chunsoft knocked it out of the park originally and then somehow forgot what made it so great and then floundered for years on Dragon Quest and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games that were all super easy and totally miss what makes the genre fun.

Fortunately Etrian Mystery Dungeon is back in good form, but that's not retro.

>>2460036
Shiren is boring to me, having played Nethack. There's just very little to do in the game and it hardly encourages creativity on the part of the player. Even something as simple as Pixel Dungeon is more complex than Shiren.

I don't think it's a bad game, just underwhelming.

>>2460074
That's why I described it as minimalist. It's quite a bit different from more robust roguelikes like NetHack. It's a bit more like a blend of a JRPG and a roguelike. I can understand it not appealing to everyone, but I love it.

I should note though, I tend to prefer the more stripped down ones. Rogue was my favorite game as a kid and it's pretty simple in a lot of ways. My other favorite which isn't retro, but whatever is called POWDER. Originally made for the GBA, it's closer to Rogue than NetHack. Like Shiren, the difficulty comes from some of the limitations you have.

>>2451280
I played nethack a bit, then ADOM. tried ivan and stone soup as well. Ivan is great.

>>2460074
Japanese and commercial roguelikes in general are a different beast

>>2460036
How is Shiren 64 and what's the most practical way to play it?

>>2451280
Mission Thunderbolt: post apocalyptic Rogue-like.

http://www.old-games.com/download/3974/jaunttrooper-mission-thunderbolt

>>2458162
This isn't accurate. You're either thinking of SLASH'EM or are woefully misinformed.

>>2460226
Shiren 64 is really easy compared to the original and kind of ugly. I wouldn't waste my time on it.

>>2462665
There's an actual kitchen sink in Nethack. There's Sokoban in Nethack (set puzzles with set rewards in a procedurally generated dungeon). You can win with a set strategy, which is based on knowing the spoilers. The best record last I checked was around 80 consecutive wins. Additionally, you can die with your first step (poisoned spike trap). While the game does offer interesting and unique combinations, it seems that there's little design put in the game. Features were never removed to keep interesting play or interface updates added. Sure you can play Dynahack or Nitrohack, but the game was primarily three developers who acted as maintainers combining different hack variants.

Dynahack and Unnethack fix some of these problems by removing completely arbitrary deaths in the beginning and by eliminating some of the cheese strategies like altering scrolls of recharge and tweaking Sokoban (removing levels and randomizing rewards)

Anyways, I think ADOM and Crawl are better designed. I started with Nethack, but moved on.

>>2460021
Increased viewport size in adom config file.

>>2463713
>Features were never removed
Well dcss has that covered if nothing else

>>2453960
manufacturing shit tons off holy water and blessing everything. 1)gather worthless potions 2) dive into water until potions dilute to water 3) drop like 30 potions of water on an alter 4) pray like a little bitch. 5) dip scrolls of enchantment into water and upgrade everything down to the t-shirt to 5+. (write scrolls if necessary, blanks can be made by diving into water too.)

After I figured this out I was practically already a demigod.

Also never used Elbereth until after the oracle told me about it, and it's still not a critical part of my game, but kust because I become so overpowered.

Dwarves Valkyrie ft(noob)w.

>tfw you get your first ascension
>adrenaline rush followed by a massive catharsis

>>2463713
How's your Ono Sendai gear, decker?

>>2463713
>There's an actual kitchen sink in Nethack.
It's "NetHack," and that's called a joke.

>Additionally, you can die with your first step
You can also search with your first turn. Your peeve over ascension streaks doesn't comport with this "problem," by the way.

>some of these problems
Not trying to be rude, but your litany of non sequiturs betrays a fundamental ignorance about the game. Nothing you've said is a problem.

Returning to the specific claim: the design for NetHack was absolutely not a few maintainers combining Hack variants, outside of platform versions being combined by Mike Stephenson in the beginning. Read the Concise History entry in the help file or the credits in the Guidebook for details, or hit Usenet archives for every bit of detail. The fact remains that the original poster (you?) was flat wrong.

>>2465301

This. The dev team for NetHack is cautious about adding new features; it's just that the game's been in development for decades so there's a lot of them by now.
Slash'EM is the one that throws every little thing into the blender.

>>2465308
These days they don't do much of anything, sadly.

>>2465309
In fact there has been an unusual amount of public activity recently. nextversion was leaked last fall, nethack.org was updated with a response to the leak immediately after it happened.

This was followed up a few months ago with another announcement which revealed that SporkHack variant creator Derek Ray and nethack.alt.org sysop / variant creator Pasi Kallinen had officially joined the DevTeam.

I'm excited about all of this. nao's version of NetHack is the best and has great improvements while maintaining a vanilla feel and SporkHack is similarly awesome. Also, nextversion is imminent.

It's a great time to be a NetHack fan!

Sorry if someone asked earlier in the thread already, but are there any good roguelike apps for android? I got Angband. Looked just like what I was looking for, but the controls were a little fucked up and made it unplayable.

>>2452618
>dwarf fortress
This guy gets it. I don't play adventure mode much. I'm more of a masochist and play fortress mode.

I love the creative ways your fortress spirals out of control.

>>2465410
Pixel Dungeon

I think there's a Brogue port

POWDER should be fairly easy to play

>>2465327
Woah, this is legit? There's going to be a Nethack update?

The last update was... what, like twelve years ago?

Is there a roguelike that throws me into a well established world it has generated, so I can cleanse it of every living thing?

>>2465509
Dwarf Fortress in adventure mode

Never been much of a roguelike fan,
but I do remember playing Ragnarok on DOS for quite a long while.

>>2465417
Pixel Dungeon's simplicity is perfect for smart phones. Nethack is a tad too cumbersome to play without a keyboard.

>>2451321
>that music

Funkadelic

>>2451280
ADOM

>>2467340
that looks so good

>>2451280
Spelunky are fun

I like plain old Rogue, preferably on an 80x25 text terminal (full screen, not windowed). No long character creation, no pets or weird stuff to manage, just pure hack & slash dungeon explorin'. Some games can last over an hour, others end in a few minutes. After all these years I still haven't won yet (only play occasionally though).

>>2467850
it is

nethack and larn mostly

df occasionally

dcss when I'm really bored

>>2469659
What's the appeal of Nethack?

>>2465509
Keep an eye out for Ultima Ratio Regum

>>2470698
Playing it spoilerless.

>>2467340
>shining silver bracers

holy shit

is there any better feel?

>>2471284
Getting a wish from a pool/fountain

>>2471281

>>2471883
>die of old age on the next turn

Any Finns remember SpurguX ?

>>2470698
Its toy/sandbox nature, such that once you know the 'language' of the game you can mess around in it a lot. It's very fun to learn but is also really fun once you've mastered it. Stacking conducts or attempting SATs can make for really crazy games.

I also like the TDTTOE consequence of such long development. Most everything can interact with everything else, and the clever accounting for rare cases of interaction is delightful.

I'm too bad at videogames to play roguelikes.

No love for UnReal World eh? I'm terrible at it but there's nothing quite like getting a cabin all set up for winter and feeling great about yourself. Naturally, you shortly thereafter cut your arm whilst gathering firewood and find that you're terribly snowed in. It gets infected, you crawl around for a while and throw a rock at a squirrel. You die.
Remember to pray to the spirits before cutting down a tree next time.

>>2477228
>UnReal World
whats with the pictures?

My favorite is Nightmare of Druaga or Baroque but I'd recommend the Mysterious Dungeon games.

>>2477939
You mean the pictures of the actual people and stuff? Just meant to give the game more flavor. In reality I think it comes off as charmingly cheesy and one of the little things that set it apart

I like Dorf Fort.

I also really enjoyed Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Explorers of Sky. It's one of the few games that have made me cry.