/vr/ - Retro Games

and what's the problem with this exactly?

>>2398450
probably the same guy that came up with them all, except goku of course.

Are we talking about Ken from SF or Kenshiro?

>>2398450
How I always heard it was AoF had the same character designer as Street Fighter 1 and he was just reusing some of his old ideas.

>>2398450
Art of Fighting 1 was made by the same people as the first Street Fighter, so that's why.

Get in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d086Bs0m_4c

>>2398450
That's...not a big deal.

What the hell were they thinking when they designed Dan? He's basically just Robert Garcia, Ryo and Kirby slapped together.

What the hell were they thinking when they designed Fei Long? He's basically just K. Dragon, Liu Kang and Kenshiro slapped together

>>2398691
>Kirby
hahaha you make my day anon..

>>2398697
Bruce lee off course

in other hands wtf is this shit

>>2398450
Thats nothing. Yuri is basically just Akuma as a japanese schoolgirl.

>>2398752
wat I don't see it
she looks and plays more like sakura to me

>>2398691
You're joking of course, but that's exactly what Dan is, minus the Kirby. Robert's ponytail in a silly coloured gi with fireballs that don't go anywhere and designed to be shit. Capcom's jokey stab at SNK.

>>2398753
Sakura is to Yuri what Dan is to Robert and Ryo except they didn't make her totally suck. Some of her moves were copied right down the frame data.

>>2398697
Doesn't Fei Long predate Liu Kang?

>>2398753
Actually your probably right dude my mistake. She didn't have her akuma demon flip until kof 13 at which point she also had a diagonal fireball and a divekick. She was much more like sakura from 96 till then.

>>2398760
No, SSF2 was '93, MK1 was '92.

>>2398763
You're right to see the connection though. As part of SNK and Capcom's cheeky jabs at each other, in 2001 they gave yuri Akuma's Raging Demon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiGwWBhxnXY

>>2398767
I could sworn otherwise. Thanks for clearing that up. Not to much of a surprise since everyone in MK1 besides maybe Kano and Sonya is a Kung-Fu movie archetype.

>>2398745
This shit is "Capcom needs an excuse to show off the new arcade hardware."

>>2398778
I do believe that both Fei Long and Lui Kang are modeled after Bruce Lee specifically though.

>>2398756
>explaining the joke

>>2398774
Funny thing, back before 2001 had come out there was a Korean guy in my class who on top of his accent had a bit of a speech impediment and both "Iori" and "Yuri" sounded pretty much identical when he said them. It was back when I was drawing a lot of anime shit, so I did this "Orochi Yuri" for him.

Then when we 2001 came out we got a pretty big laugh out of that move.

>>2398774
Fuuuck I remember that!

Threadly reminder:

>The creators of the original Street Fighter quit Capcom and went to SNK soon after finishing the game.
>Fatal Fury 1 is basically their vision for a sequel of the original SF.
>Ryo is basically just them revisiting their own ideas that are not their IP anymore, he's a ripoff of Ryu in the same sense MN9 is a ripoff of Megaman, really.
>Ken was not portrayed as "cool stylish playboy" until AFTER Robert Garcia debuted that way.
>Takuma/Mr.Karate came years before the creation of Akuma.
>Yuri was playable in three games before Sakura even existed, stop thinking Sakura came first.
>Super Turbo was only made because Fatal Fury Special greatly overshadowed vanilla Super in Japan.
>Ryo Sakazaki as a secret boss if you didn't lose any matches happened in FFS, and then happened in ST with Akuma one year after.
>Akuma's aerial projectile looks and works exactly like Geese's and Ryo's.

>>2398839
Common sense reminder:

Capcom didn't invent the "gi-wearing martial artist" look. It's like arguing that Haggar is a Mario clone because he wears overalls and has a mustache.

>>2398839
who gives a damn, nobody played that spic shit

>>2398450

They were probably thinking exactly that.

Does he say Olsen when he does his power fist thing

>>2398745
Prometheus

>>2398859
>nobody played that spic shit
What are you even referring to?

>>2398997
He's just shitposting, don't read too much into it.

>>2398839
>Akuma's aerial projectile looks and works exactly like Geese's and Ryo's.
uhm, no. Ryo has air freeze, Geese has blowback. Gouki has none of these and no trajectory change.

>>2398962
a Titan? well thats odd...also prometheus is only fire

>>2399225
I mean the animation and how the projectile goes diagonally.
With all the Rainbow editions, I believe most people back then expected aerial hadoukens to go horizontally like the ground ones (VS games did so years later).

The animation is pretty much exactly the same as Ryo/Geese, Akuma even does it one handed, and considering the other things I mentioned in the previous post, I don't really think it's just coincidence really.

I don't know why people get the idea that Robert Garcia was a Ken Masters ripoff. The original Street Fighter II games never actually established that Ken's family was actually wealthy. That's something they made up for the anime and then brought into the Alpha series.

>>2399272
Not everything is a 1:1 ratio. Just because one thing inspires another doesn't mean they're going to perfectly align in every regard.

They were thinking "lets go with what works."

>>2399290
See >>2398839
Most people grew up with SF, so whatever they saw there, they'll likely assume is the "original".

Yuri is exactly the same thing. Cute tomboy karate girl with red chucks? Yuri did that years before Sakura, but since most people got introduced to Sakura first, they'll just assume Yuri is the ripoff.

I never knew these games had a story at all.

>>2399318
Funny, I discovered Yuri long after I did Sakura, and I never thought of either of them as clones of each other. "Young/novice girl fighter" is a pretty broad category.

>>2399325
AoF started out as a story about a guy and his best friend trying to rescue the guy's sister who was kidnapped by a mob boss, then it turns out the mob boss forced the guy and girl's own father to do the kidnapping for him with a disguise

FF started out as a story about two brothers trying to avenge the muder of their father

KOF started out as an "all-stars" of SNK's characters from their other franchises then literally went the "an ancient evil awakens..." route

After that SNK plotlines gradually start to get completely insane

>>2399354
Samurai Shodown is about a man who wanted to make his skill ultimate but got involved with the troubles.

>>2399363
After seeing this intro I'm still disappointed the game wasn't set in Northern Ireland

>>2399367
bloody 'ell

>>2399345
True, but you can't deny they're very similar in appearence and function. The crossover games even highlight it.
It's not uncommon to see people labeling Yuri as a ripoff, even if it mostly comes from SF fans that never touched an SNK fighter because again, they just label it as a shitty ripoff.

>>2399325
>>2399354
SNK games always been story heavy/oriented, it was even one of it's selling points.
It's also worth mentioning that AoF and FF share the same universe, with AOF being around 10 years before the first FF.
Last Blade is also in the same universe, but in the 17th century, and Savage Reign/Kizuna Encounter in the unknown future.

They were cool stories, too bad Kof99 onwards was dogshit.

>>2399363
He did have a bloody life, it's no accident that he got involved with the troubles.

>>2399378
Function, sure, but it only felt apparent in later entries. Appearance, though, I disagree. All they have in common is being young females with mousy brown hair. Sakura was much more obviously catering to schoolgirl fetishists; she's arguably closer to Athena in that regard. Sakura did not feel like a Yuri clone at all, and when SNK started using Yuri as a means to tease Capcom, I don't recall many, if any, instances of Capcom using Sakura in the same capacity. That probably contributes to people seeing Yuri as a ripoff rather than vice versa, too.

>>2399378
Mai's ancestor was also in Samurai Shodown 1.

I've never liked the story of the NESTS saga, but I did enjoy the one of the ASH saga. Just a shame that one had such uninspired bosses.

>>2399424
>Mai's ancestor was also in Samurai Shodown 1.
The resemblance is striking even!

>>2399428
female make up can do crazy shit, dude

>>2399402
I understand, dude.
I'm not claiming either is a clone of each other, I just said a lot of people wrongfully claim so, it's not uncommon to see that.
> young females with mousy brown hair
Headbands and same shoes too, btw. I'm not saying they're identical, but they do have some striking similarities.

>>2399424
You mean Gen'an or Mai herself appearing?
Gen'an has been confirmed to not be related to her, and Mai herself is more of a gag really.

I'm not a fan of the Ash saga itself, but I did love some of the events that happening during it, like Iori losing his powers.
I liked SNK games better when they were more grounded, I enjoy the Southtown stories much more than those monster bosses bullshit that plagued the Ash saga, or the futuristic crap from NESTS.
Orochi was cool though.

>>2399428
make up can do crazy shit, dude

>>2399428
That fucker could be awesome, but....

>>2398962
So you make a demigod based on a titan and you name that owerpowered shit gill?

>>2398450
They were thinking of slapping Ryu, Ken, and Goku together.

>>2399443
Mai herself appearing at the end of Haohmaru's ending, I believe. Obviously supposed to be her ancestor though.

They did like borrowing names for Sam Sho for some reason though.

One of Jubei's win quotes is even "No, I'm not related to that guy from Fatal Fury".

Wonderfully meta game.

>>2399565
I asked because Gen'an's last name is Shiranui too, that's where the rumour comes from, but it's been stated they're not related.
I like to think the Mai is an ancestor to the modern day one, but it probably is just a gag with no real meaning. Samsho never did have much connection with the other series.

>>2399515
>>2398450
You guys are overlooking Kenshiro.

>>2398962
It's actually Juda from Hokuto no Ken

>>2399428
What the fuck is that thing!

>>2398450
i never got this critique
"guy in karate gi" is hardly a character concept
there is nothing to steal

>>2399850
>Ryo based on Kenshiro

In what way? Certainly not in the looks department. Does he have the Hyakku retsu ken or something?

>>2400520
Zan Retsu Ken

>>2400421
Green stinky lizard ninja

>>2400520
His hair changed with time, but it was much more Kenshiro like in the earky days.
>Hyakku retsu ken
Zan Retsu Ken

>>2398756
According to Akiman, Street Fighter Alpha was Capcom's attempt at trying to be more like SNK. Which sort of explains the parody character of Dan.

>>2400848
This is kind of fascinating to me. I've never been a huge fan of Street Fighter in general and like King of Fighters far more. But of the Street Fighters, the Alpha games were my least favorite. Something always felt off about them. Kind of funny that it was them trying to emulate KoF more. Alpha is also where they introduced Sakura as well as Rolento. Now it looks so obvious.

>>2398745

Choryujun

>>2400867
Of course, Rolento debuted long before the Alpha series.

>>2401109
I wouldn't be surprised if the whole idea of bringing Final Fight characters into Street Fighter Alpha was inspired by King of Fighters. Granted, they were always considered to be the same universe, but KoF was one of the first fighters to popularize the concept of bringing multiple franchises together into one fighting game.

>>2401263
Perhaps, but considering only one non-SF franchise was included--and as you said, it was considered to share the same universe as SF already--I find that to be a hard sell. It wasn't until MvC that Capcom really went for that idea, and it didn't really bother with a cohesive story like KOF did.

Imagine a multi-franchise Capcom fighter that isn't all flashy combos and attempted to weave a cohesive narrative... the closest we ever got was Capcom Fighting Jam. Too late, way too little.

>>2398752
In...your mind?

>>2399850
I always figured that Gen'an just had a smoking hot wife and normal kids, resulting inevitably in Mai.

>>2398745

Malekith the Accursed from Thor's Marvel series mixed with a little bit of Judah from Hokuto No Ken and all of "The Pillar Men" from Jojo's Bizzare Adventure? The Malekith link is really noticeable when you select Gill's Player 2 colors.

>>2401580

He actually does have a Normal wife & kids, but none of them ever became playable characters in future games.

>>2399378
>They were cool stories, too bad Kof99 onwards was dogshit.
KOF '99, 2001, and 2003 are pretty bad (at least '99 looks gorgeous).
but 2000 and 2002 are pretty fun and mostly solid
There's a bunch of dumb shit in '00 and '02, but they're still significantly better than '94-96, even if they aren't as good as '97 and '98.

>tfw you realize a rather large amount of KOF games are actually pretty bad
>'94 -- I keep flipping back and forth between "this is pretty decent" and "this is fucking awful"
>'95 and '96 -- well, I'd say they're just average and with a bunch of issues),
>'99 -- it's pretty and that's fucking it
>2001 -- it's also fun, but it's much, much dumber than 2000 or 2002
>2003, Neowave, XII -- literally unfinished games that got released

unless you just mean the story, in which case fucking yes
who the fuck wrote NESTS saga and why
Ash saga's isn't so bad, but it's still not actually good in terms of plot

>>2399318
>but since most people got introduced to Sakura first, they'll just assume Yuri is the ripoff.
this shit bugs the fuck out of me
it doesn't help that there isn't much about Yuri that seems like a ripoff, other than some of the games where SNK deliberately used her moveset as a joke at Capcom

>>2398691

>>2401662
I was talking about the story, yeah.
But for gameplay:
>94 humble begginings, understandable. Plus it was innovative and got the job done for the time.
>95 is actually good, like FF2/S it's very old school, but in a good way.It still had that feeling of FF vs Aof, so that's cool too.
>96 they're adapting to their new style, it was great on release, and is good on it's own right, but 97 and 98 improved so much on the formula that 96 became redundant and clumsy.
>97 gets a lot of praise, but it's mostly for the story and memorable bosses, the game itself is pretty much 98 beta, and is very clumsy too, but it's fun.
>99 really is pretty, but rolling backwards is beyond retarded,plus stupid strikers make the game shit. It did have some interesting movesets though.
>2000 is pretty fun if you're not playing with a pro that can abuse strikers for easy infinites. Also looks pretty, but not as much as 99
>2001 and XII - burn it with fire
>2003, NW - meeeeeeeeh
>NGPC titles - haha, those are actually great!

And yeah, fuck NESTS story.

>>2401664
Dan's ex tatsumaki in SF4 is exactly like Robert's Hien Shippu kyaku in 2k3 (which look fairly different than it usually does) I thought that was pretty neat.
But the guy you're responding to was obviously joking,man.

>>2398962
So does that mean Urien is based off Zeus?

>>2401662
I liked '96 because it was the first really playable one. The soundtrack on the CDs versions is godly too.

'97 plays great but lacks a decent soundtrack, though the bosses and endings mostly make up for that

'98 is just brilliant.

'99 looks great, but the music again didn't do much for me. Too electronic. I never took to strikers either, though the game played pretty well. I absolutely despise Whip though.

2000 plays really well, not many complaints.

2001 I only really play to play as Zero and Igniz. It looks awful, and sounds awful, but it doesn't play too badly.

2002 is really redundant because of 2002 UM. And UM is just fantastic, especially all the cameos of other SNK characters.

2003 I actually love gameplay-wise, really fast and it lost the cumbersomeness of other KOF games, but KOF XI did it better and had all those bonus mid-bosses too. Then again, it had Magaki, so I'll leave it at that.

Neowave is a broken mess. Pretty much just a test game.

I like XIII to an extent, but it does sort of annoy me that a game who advance so far, only to go really back to basics. Dumb bosses, very short move lists and strange choice of characters (Hwa Jai of all people). Now I wouldn't I minded it that much if they were going to properly reboot the series, but we haven't seen a new KOF game in five years, so it leaves me with a bitter taste.

Ash Saga bosses were also all really unimaginative, which is a shame because I enjoyed the gameplay so much. Every KOF game/saga is flawed in their own way, but its also what makes it such a charming series of games.

>>2399424
what a kidder, that guy aint even Ninja.

>>2401560
I did not like Capcom Fighting Jam because they nerfed Alex hard.

>>2401620
talking about ancestors, zantetsu will be the ancestor of eiji?

>>2402329
Although not related universe or company-wise, I always saw a tint of Genjuro Kibagami in Bryan Fury from Tekken.

Is it a good idea to get the other KoF games on Steam even though I have access to them on PS2? Just got back into KoFXIII last week. Prior to that I have been hitting Capcom vs SNK 2 pretty hard ever since it was released on PS2 classics.

>>2402329
>zantetsu will be the ancestor of eiji?
He is, it's confirmed by Zantetsu's ending.
I don't remember if they're fully blood related, but Eiji is definitely a heir to Zantetsu's clan/fighting style.

>>2402336
They're worth it for netplay if you have people to play with, 98UM on Steam is also using the most recent balance update while PS2 version is the earlier one

>>2402340
got offline bros to play with but that balance update sounds appealing. Where can I see changelogs for this?

>>2402332
when I was a kid I thought genjuro was ancestor of iori... and kazuki of Kyo

Is he secretly gay?

What are the incentives to keep fighting in KOF when shit fucks up anyway?

>>2402357
back on tread, Wtf they were thinking when they created this fucker, it's so out of place.

but I love his intro song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUV1fO9Rpr8&list=PL66E30A792CC1A12B&index=9
and his stage ost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXQ3eu6LXII

>>2402329
>>2402338
Eiji has Zantetsu Max super as his LDM in XI

>>2402381
Probably something similar to what they were thinking when they made the soundtrack to Violent Storm.
https://youtu.be/jV2nNg228Xg

>>2402393
WE GOT THE LOOKS
OH SO FINE

>>2402393
yeah but I mean the char, what is he doing in a game like Galaxy fight does not fit for me at least, yet he can be on a game like violent storm without problems

>>2403104
most characters don't fit in galaxy fight. What's a felicia lookalike doing fighting a lizard or a robot?

>>2403115
Well, those guys looked more...galactic I guess.
They kinda look like aliens and shit, G Done looks like a normal street guy. At least the other humans were in suits or cyber-ish clothing.

>>2403174
Agree, also rouwe is very normal too.

>>2401662
>>2401696

i really loved 97 because all specials make a little pause and a sound that make it feel like they were really getting crushed, i got the same feeling with Garou

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3k6RISmwoQ

>>2402227

Hasn't SNK had to deal with another near-company collapse, and their idea for the re-birth/resurgance of the 2D Fighter got completely destroyed by the SF4/Marvel 3 juggernaut, small though they are. I think they're going to come back with another fully-3D fighter soon enough. Shame though considering XIII is pretty fucking beautiful.

>>2398753
she was the original school girl (that capcom copied then also made dan)
that copied her brother/bf's moves

>>2403637
Sakura's Flower Kick: Senkai Kyaku (Swiveling Kick) in KOF 2000-2001

Ryu's Shin Shouryuuken (True Rising Dragon Fist): Shin! Chou Upper! (True! Super Upper!) in KOF '98 (as EX Yuri), KOF NESTS Saga, KOF: Maximum Impact 2, and KOF XI

Ken's Shouryuu Reppa (Rising Dragon Rending Breaker): Hien Rekkou (Flying Swallow Rending Rainbow, also doubles as Yuri Chou Reppa/Yuri Super Rending Breaker) in KOF '98 (UM) and Capcom vs. SNK series

Felicia's intro, Makoto's intro: Capcom vs. SNK series

Akuma's Tenma Kuujinkyaku (Evil Spirit Air Blade Leg) and Hyakki Shuu (Hundred Demons Assault): Yuri Raijin Kyaku (Yuri Thunder God Leg) and Houyoku (Phoenix Wing) in KOF XIII, respectively

Chun-Li's Senjou Shuu (Drilling Cane Kick): Shouyoku (Rising Wing) in KOF 2002-XI/Neowave

Ryu's Denjin Hadouken (Electric Blade Surge Fist): Denjin Haou Shoukou Ken (Electric Blade Supreme King Flying Howl Fist) in KOF 2003

Iori's Ge Shiki: Yuri Ori (Foreign Method: Lily Snapper): Yuri Ori (Yuri Snapper) in KOF 2003-XI (notice that the "yuri" on the latter is not in written kanji but in katakana, as in her name)

Terry's Burn Knuckle: Yuri Chou Knuckle (Yuri Super Knuckle)

>>2403648
She only became that AFTER Sakura and Dan were made though.
Capcom mocked SNK with Dan, SNK retaliated by making Yuri a SF parody.
I guess the joke is that even a little girl who learned Karate in a year can pull of the most powerful SF moves with no problems, and sometimes, even more effectively than the original moves she's parodying.

13 is fun but you're stuck with asking steam friends to play, so I never improve more than a little at a time.

>>2403807
post steam name

>>2403716
I mean she was the first school girl that copies her brother archetype (i didn't play early AoF so I'm not sure if she got trained like her brother too canonically), it's also hard to say who copies who when it comes to snk/capcom because a lot of people jump back and forth between the fighting dev houses back then under pseudonyms too

sakura also gets some of it too later when she does raging demon in marvel vs street fighter, yuri's is funny because snk later just said fuck it and has her as the 'ripoff character'

>>2403858

Unless you live in Europe there isn't much point.

>>2403571
Yeah, I believe you're right. And it is a shame, because it's really the end of an era. 2D fighters have always been my favourite.

>>2403174
He's a mixed-up guy with a mental disease. He's got a backdoor relation to society. So you don't have to worry about him.

>>2400848
Alpha is nothing like an SNK game, Also Dan predates the Alpha games

>>2403807
The XII and XIII artstyle makes we want to vomit. Falcoon's art was alright as character portraits, but now they've made the whole game look like a shitty Korean cartoon. Yuri looks like a god damned retard.

>>2404410
>Also Dan predates the Alpha games

Lol and what game would that be then? Do tell, please!

>>2404513
Eh, It's mostly good.

>>2404513
falcoon didn't do 12 and 13, he only worked on XI and maximum impact

>>2404565
To each their own, but I hate the way they threw out the really unique look that the games used to have for a much more typical over the top cartoony look.

>>2404578
Ohh I know, but the redesigned sprites were purposefully made to look like the way he draws the characters.

>>2404914
reminder snk used top of the art dot graphics and people still complained it looked "pixelated"

>>2404914
It's by Nona, not Falcoon.
Nona's artstyle is normally disgusting too, he's the guy who made the despicable 2001 art that I deplore.

>>2404518
Not that anon, but it's kinda true.
Sagat art from SF2 era shows Sagat holding a defeated karateka that looks a lot like Ryo+Robert. Capcom went further than just art and later used that as the basis for Dan.

>>2404513

You shut your mouth. That's 2.5d done right. It's SF4 that makes me vomit with rage and disgust.

>>2404923

You have to remember:

people are stupid as fuck sometimes.

Just because he have the capacity to make every single game in 3D, doesn't mean we NEED to.

Detalied pixel art looks vastly superior to me, since I know someone had to actually take the time to animate each frame for whatever action a 2D character is performing.

3D... not so much.
>"Move a few bones around and call it a day".

I'll take 'time invested into a game' vs. 'quick turnaround' any day of the week.

>>2405152

>**just because WE have the capacity...

>>2405086
Ryu still looks dumb to me but even SF4 did things mostly right. Yes I prefer alpha and third strike but given that it was 3d I think it looks pretty good.

I do think it's unfortunate that KoF IV will be 3d tho.

>>2399428
Probably gets her genes from Genan's wife.