/vr/ - Retro Games

I've only played half of the first one but it seemed very standard, the sequels are better I assume ?

>>2395107
Much better.

>>2395096
yea

Dragon Quest, obviously.

>>2395113
What did DQ innovate?

>>2395107
Yeah the first one was bland, the sequels were much better minus Dragon Quarter.

What the fuck did BoF innovate? The first two seemed pretty barebones as far as JRPGs go.

>>2395117
Are you being serious right now?

>>2395127
Yes. DQ didn't really do much aside from appealing to a wider audience.

>>2395131
So what did BoF introduce? Furry party memebers?

>>2395120
dragon quarter confirmed 2innovative4u

>>2395131
>the first jrpg ever didn't innovate anything

>>2395134
Town-building, Master System, Fairy Village etc. along with being able to mix and match various elements, characteristics and forms to suit their playing style.

>>2395136
It's not even the first Japanese RPG and others did more than just take elements from previous games.

>>2395096
This is the most bait thread I've seen on vr. And that's saying a lot.

>>2395117
This baiter is pretty funny actually.

>>2395136
All JRPGs are clones of earlier western computer games such as Wizardy and Ultima.

Anyway, this thread is stupid. Any "innovation" made by JRPGs was done by WRPGS 10 years before.

>>2395167
I'd like to see some game from 1974 that came close to "Do dutchwives dream of electric eels?".

I like Breath of Fire games but I wouldn't call them innovative:

While I have a soft spot for BoF1 it really is very generic but enjoyable JRPG from the time it was released. If it innovated anything it streamlined JRPGs a bit but didn't do anything groundbreaking.

Now while BoF2 expanded upon the first game in every possible way I don't see it doing anything innovative that hadn't already been done in other JRPGs from the era.

Apart from the master-apprentice system and the skill system in BoF3 and BoF4 they weren't really that innovative either but had an unique feel to them and are some of my all-time favorite games.

If there ever was an innovative Breath of Fire game it's called Dragon Quarter but it may have been a bit too innovative and different compared to other BoF games.

>>2395125
Name a JRPG that had town building before BoF2.

>>2395167

the streamlining of things like the horrible interface of ultima and the insane difficulty only crazy basement people can tolerate of wizardry into something more playable is innovation tbh

>>2395203
Ultima streamlined the interface by itself. The original DQ controls were also terrible and the world design called for a shitload of grinding.

>>2395096
>Breath of Fire
>innovative

you meant to say "generic". there is nothing innovative about BoF.

>>2395226
Name a JRPG that had town building before BoF2.

>>2395203
Unless you consider casualising a form of innovation, there are practically no innovative jrpgs ever

>>2395096
Yes

>>2395125
Nice retard post.

good evening there, katfag

>>2395229
Not him, but Immigrant Towns have been around since the NES days, man. Dragon Quest III and IV had them, for example.

Also, BOF threads can't thrive on 4chan for long because of you-know-who.

>>2395628
Where do you discuss BOF, the series of infinite possibilities, without furry chick spam?

>>2395596
You made the wrong town. Enjoy not having the cook make infinite GoldBars and stat-ups.

>>2395692
The chef choice is inconvenient for my type of playthrough.

Just finished Terranigma and had a blast. ENIX had some good shit back then.

I never played Breath of Fire and you guys seem to dislike the first one. If I start with the second or third game would I miss out on anything?

>>2395096
How is Breath of Fire (besides Dragon Quarter) more innovative than SaGa?

>>2395714
There's BOF1 references in BOF2 and BOF3, but nothing that you should be worried about.
Also, BOF1 is not a "bad" game. Just very simple and generic. Chances are that if you enjoyed DQ1+2, you'll enjoy BOF1.

>>2395229
Soul Blazer predates it in the same console.

>>2395723
But that's more about "restoring" the town, not really building it.

Dragon Quarter a best. I've beaten it at least 7 times. Haven't done the entire bonus dungeon yet, gotten up in the 80s, though.

>>2395253
Stick to rolling dice in your basement with your virgin D and D friends, faggot. Ultima is garbage, it shit the bed so hard that it's presently a dead franchise. The Japs own Wizardry now so LOL.l

Not retro, but I'd have to say that the first Mario & Luigi game on GBA was the most innovative jrpg I've played.

>>2395096
DQ and Ogre? And did Fire Emblem invent the strategy RPG?

>>2395253
Bokusuka Wars, released in 1983 by Ascii, layed the foundation for action Rpgs as well as SRpgs. Final Fantasy 4 along with Phantasy Star 2 were two of the first Rpgs that had a focus on story, character development and dramatic themes. Those are two examples off the top of my head in regards to innovation.
Oh and fuck yourself. Not an innovative response, but it's really all the thought you are worth.

>>2395964
I don't know much but I do know that tabletop war gaming existed alongside roleplaying, and was basically a very heightened version of Risk. I've seen decades old modules with maps split into grids that allowed players to recreate various theatres in WW2. We're talking about a very niche activity but it had some enthusiasts, particularly in Britain. I have no doubt that is the real origin of the console SRPG, which split into resource management sims like Romance of the Three Kingdoms and strategic role playing like Bokusaku Wars. At some point they converged with the high fantasy of medieval Europe and D&D and we got Fire Emblem, although I'm positive there's earlier SRPGS on the MSX or similar 8bit Japanese computers that I'm unaware of.

I love the BOF series, but the only innovative ones were II and Dragon Quarter (which is not /vr/).

>>2395628
The NES version of DQ3 had an immigrant town, but I the NES version DQ4 did not. That was added in the later remakes.

>>2395964
>Final Fantasy 4 along with Phantasy Star 2 were two of the first Rpgs that had a focus on story, character development and dramatic themes.
Final Fantasy 2 did that before both of them.

And yeah, BoF didn't really add much to the table besides the Master system and maaaaaybe town building but considering how many obscure JRPGs there are I wouldn't even be sure of the latter.
Now, Dragon Quarter was a nice elaboration of the roguelike genre but even then I'm not sure what it did introduce that wasn't already been done by others, maybe the game's general countdown?

By the way, I don't even think BoF was meant to be that innovative anyway, just a JRPG with capcom's touch and flair, and as far as I'm concerned I thoroughly enjoyed it for what it's worth.

>>2396610
>Dragon Quarter was a nice elaboration of the roguelike genre
It had nothing to do with Rogue and everything to do with Ultima.

>>2395125
Hot bitches.

>>2396610
>Dragon Quarter was a nice elaboration of the roguelike
Nothing rogue-like about it at all, there's no randomization or procedural generation or even permadeath. You literally keep your experience and items.

The battle system is super innovative, with a focus on three PCs, one melee, one ranged, and one mage. Dealing with enemy distance and character placement, AP management, magic and trap usage, luring mobs, etc. It's a tight balance between strategy and traditional JRPG mechanics.

I think the dragon counter was innovative too, just just how it was implemented in the gameplay but also in the story, and especially how it related to your distance from the surface and a general sense of tension. That final battle, when you go over %100, it's pretty crazy because you've been managing it so closely the entire game.

There's a lot of things I think DQ just does well and still manages to feel fresh today. The whole Scenario Overlay system is an interesting take on the usual NG+, along with the D-Ratio and that Dragon Sword.

>>2396790
>with a focus on three PCs, one melee, one ranged, and one mage. Dealing with enemy distance and character placement, AP management, magic and trap usage, luring mobs, etc. It's a tight balance between strategy and traditional JRPG mechanics.

Emerald Dragon has a similar system albeit it works in a more "traditional" and archaic way, unfortunately it's in no way as good as Dragon Quarter's by the only virtue of being able to control only the MC, lots of other problems in the meta too, not to mention about the game itself.
>The whole Scenario Overlay system is an interesting take on the usual NG+, along with the D-Ratio and that Dragon Sword.
I agree on this, it was a bit puzzling at first but it turned out nice.

Honestly I've played a lot of RPGs and I don't think there are actually any at all that I could call "Innovative"

As much as any of them are different, they're also the same as what came before them, and there are no real clean break points of inspiration or change in format. Anything that does becomes it's own series and everything else either apes it directly or ignores every good idea there.

>>2396889
>Honestly I've played a lot of RPGs and I don't think there are actually any at all that I could call "Innovative"
Then you haven't played enough of them.

>>2396919
Honestly did Daggerfall actually have a big impact on anything other than the Elderscroll series?

I feel like most of the innovations in RPGs actually originate in games outside of the genre whose elements were sutured together with RPG mechanics.

>>2395136
Ahcschually, the first console RPG is Hydlide, and there are some predecessors on japanese computers

>>2395943
>>2395964
>severe, terminal butthurt

Looks like I hit the nail quite solidly on the head.

>focus on story, character development and dramatic themes

Holy hell

Now it is actually weird apparently SMT has gone unmentioned ITT.

>>2397268
>Now it is actually weird apparently SMT has gone unmentioned ITT.
see>>2396610
FFII already did that years before.
And it's not like SMT had any character development anyway, FFIV had more "development" than both SMT and SMTII, maybe SMT IF has more but since I haven't played it I won't comment on it.

>>2397010
Ultima Underworld influenced TES, and apparently Fromsoft's King's Field series.