/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2368057
30% is fine, the main things is completing the mission and recovering artifacts. You can recoup the cost of soldiers by selling the plasma guns you get if you get in a bind.

I was just playing again the other day and I still suffer 4-6 casualties per mission, usually scouting rookies. Even a hovertank or a suit of flying armor is going to get unlucky and die to plasma shots occasionally, nothing you can really do.

They die for a good cause.

>>2368061
That's actually really sad and tactically disappointing. But thanks for the info

Are you guys all playing with some patch that has an Ironman mode? I just reload when people get killed. I lose rookies here or there but nothing else.

>>2368078
Some casualties are going to be expected with any war, particularly ones where the enemy meets or exceeds your technological prowess. The X-COM commander and the humans might have the benefit of millenniums of waging wars and military strategy and tactics, but it can only help so much against an enemy with a pistol sized weapon capable of punching through tank armor.

Tactically speaking, you can minimize casualties down to a small amount, you can only take missions during the daytime to increase your field of view, you can level buildings with explosives to flush out aliens from hiding, and you can set up firing lines to catch aliens trying to move within your field of view. You can tell yourself that the most accurate alien still only has a 37%-85% chance of hitting a character per shot, and that each shot against a soldier in power armor only has a 50% chance to cause damage, and only a 25% chance to kill. But even so, at the end of the day, combat is dangerous, and nothing you can really do will prepare you when a muton busts out around the corner, survives several plasma shots to the face, and proceeds to unload on the nearest sargent within sight with everything he's got.

>>2368127
I don't really reload unless it's a game ending defeat. Something like failing the final mission or losing an entire squad/avenger to a blaster bomb.

>>2368152
Nah, but i still try to roll with the punches as far as possible. It makes the survivors feel a bit more special and the more disastrous missions a little more tense.

If my favorite dude dies i'm instantly reloading that shit though

>>2368160
A lot of players tend to use the scout/sniper strategy to preserve valuable troops on the field. It consists of setting up a line of soldiers near your skyranger to sniper at enemies while either rookies or a tank/rocket launcher scouts out targets or blows up walls to reveal them. The idea is that if you can see an alien with any soldier, than any other soldier on your force can shoot at it. There's no reduction in accuracy for further range, although projectiles are modeled for flight rather than binary hit/miss chances, so if you stand in front of someone and auto-fire with only a 15% chance to hit, you're likely to hit each time since there's simply no other place for the shot to go.

Also note, despite having a higher chance to hit with a single aimed shot, an auto-shot usually has a better chance to score at least one hit and the advantage that it can score multiples. For instance, an aimed shot might have a 70% chance to hit with a rifle, while an auto-shot might have a 35% chance to hit. When doing the math, you have a 30% chance of not hitting with an aimed shot, and a 27% chance of not hitting with an auto-shot (Because auto-shot fires three projectiles instead of one). In that case, the auto-shot is always superior to the aimed shot, even before taking TU usage into account, because it gives you a higher chance of doing damage to an enemy. The only time you would want to use an aimed shot is with explosive weapons or weapons that have a 100% chance to hit -- the former you can't afford to miss so you need as high of accuracy as possible, and the later will promise you one hit no matter what.

>>2368184
>>2368152
Thanks, very insightful, and an interesting take on the whole context of the game.

>>2368184
Also, while usually not an issue, autoshots drain your ammunition three times as quick.

>Just finished X-COM again.
>Forgot how terribly easy the game gets when you finish your first few psi-labs and run around with 26 90+ psi strength soldiers with blaster launchers.

I mean, by that point you've put up with night time terror missiles, Chryssalid swarms, mind controlled rookies with rocket launchers, and grenades being lobbed into the skyranger on the alien turn, so it's not like it's not a welcome change of pace when everyone's immune to psi and doesn't even have to move around to kill things, but it does seem anti-climatic.

There's not really any good way to do these close quarters invasions, is there? I want to preserve the elerium, so I can't just chuck high explosives everywhere.

A gray just dropped onto my soldier from the roof of a shed in turn causing my poor sap to lose consciousness. Then another one did that just the next turn. Is this a common tactic of theirs?

>>2370370
Smoke Grenades, you cant see aliens as well, but they can't see you either giving you a chance to get in closer and not get murdered coming through a door.

>>2370665
that's funny as fuck I never had that happen, did you blow a hole in the upper side of a building or something?

>>2370705
Nope, hadn't even gotten a chance to do anything but move up the walls of the said building.

>>2370705
I saw this picture yesterday and din't catch what was going on - I didn't 'get' the perspective. Now I see it and it's so funny.

I just started xcom and din't really like the accuracy calculations - the fact that distance isn't taken into account. I enabled 'enhanced accuracy' or something in openxcom advanced options. Does anyone know if aliens are then also subject to this improved accuracy model?

>>2371853
I saw that option too, and while I'd assume aliens are subject to it as well, I don't know. I also turned on TFTD damage calculations as well, 0-200% damage per shot feels really random compared to 50-150%, even though the latter has the effect of making my tanks nearly invincible to plasma pistols.

>>2368057
For me X-Com is really a story of sacrifice, losing whole squads is unpleasant but not game destroying. I like the new X-Com but they missed out on the sacrifice bit.

>>2368057
>>2372272
Yeah, it's common to get the shit absolutely kicked out of you for the first few missions. It's only through capitalizing on the opportunities provided by your fallen comrades' noble sacrifices that you are able to eventually take the fight to the aliens.

that and cursor scouting

>>2372272
>Night terror mission on Superhuman in Feburary.
>First step off the skyranger subjects my tank to no less than 26 plasma shots (Only four actually hit, but still).
>It's a bloody, terrible struggle against the Sectoid menace, but things are looking up with only 20% casualties and at least half the enemy force taken out.
>Suddenly, an alien starts panicing my soldiers, but thankfully no mind control.
>I MUST find this alien to learn psi barely a month into the game.
>Force my surviving members to take out their stun rods and charge the aliens on open terrain while tanks block their line of fire.
>Lose all but two soldiers, but manage to subdue a sectoid leader.
>Drag his ass back to the skyranger through a trail of broken bodies and wrecked tanks and just leave, don't even risk failing the mission to kill the remaining sectoids.

>>2372610
That's how I imagine things playing out for us in the first few months if Xcom suddenly happened for real.

>>2372660
Honestly though, how do you put a price on unlocking psionic ability (Or plasma technology, or any alien technology)? How many bodies is it worth? ~12 men is an absolutely tiny price to pay when I'd sack the entire city of Caracas for something like that.

>>2368187

You can dramatically increase your soldiers' survivability if you learn about reaction fire and the mutual surprise mechanic:

http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Reaction_fire_triggers
http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Scouting

>>2372610
>get the alien back to base for study
>it dies in captivity due to no alien containment

>>2372786
>it dies in captivity due to no alien containment
Just another thing for humanity to learn the hard way.

>>2372786
You are implying the alien is not shot as soon as he arrives at the base, like a scared puppy that gets diagnosed with rabies at the kennel.

I'm starting to welcome Snakemen terror missions on Superhuman. The only thing easier than them are floaters, Sectoids and Mutons are a nightmare, and I don't even want to think about Ethereals.

>>2374150
>Sectoids
>Ethereals
>Not having Ubermenschen immune to alien psi by the time Ethereals show up

>>2374618
In March? I've barely had time to build a psi lab.

>>2374618
You really only need a couple of psi-baits. Even if psionics is pretty bullshit, with it's infinite range even without eye contact, enemy's AI is pretty poor, always taking priority in attacking the guy with lowest psi-def over and over.

>UFO: The Two Sides was canned by Fireaxis
>You will never play a competitive X-COM game against a human controlled alien side.

Last beta for it if anyone was interested. You can play as the aliens in single player, but X-COM AI wasn't yet implemented.

http://www.indiedb.com/games/ufo-the-two-sides/downloads/ufo-the-two-sides-public-beta-v098b

>>2368127
It's called OpenXcom, son, and it's retarded not to use it these days.

>>2368187
I'll make it easier for you

>Use tanks for absorving reaction fire while dropping out of the skyranger. It can soak up a lot of damage and reactions, and if it gets busted, at least you don't lose morale. Rocket tanks are especially because they can really pack a punch.
>Lobbing a smoke grenade before exiting the skyranger is great for making cover. Watch out for snakemen terror missions, though, because that might obscure nearby chryssalids
>auto shot>snap shot>aimed shot
>Laser rifles are the best weapon in the game in terms of efficiency
>You can turn your workshops into effective sweatshops. Research aicraft laser cannons, manufacture, and sell 'em. They make great profit
>Do not sell elerium
>DO NOT SELL ELERIUM
>When in doubt, use a high explosive. Why enter the building if you can take it down?

Also, regardless of what some people have been saying, effective tactics can reduce your casualties to nigh zero. I've seen pros finish the game on superhuman with very few soldiers lost.

>>2375510
Plasma is usually better than laser, even counting the limited ammo capacity (which is kind of a non issue, 35 shots are enough). On the other hand, laser weapons are evidently made out of thin air, since they yield four times the money you spent producing them. They make economy in X-com a big joke, at least the money based one.

>>2375551
Which is why I said in terms of efficiency. Obviously the heavy plasma is better, but in cas you're playing with in a version with the ammo clip bug fixed, or straight OpenXcom with alien weapon self-destruct activated, laser rifles will become your best friends from that point on. They're also better for rookies because they spend less TUs.

>>2375551
Laser rifles are more accurate, i find it good to have a couple sitting back behind the other weapons until late in the game.

>>2375560
Actually they're not, but they do spend less TUs.

>Laser Rifle
Auto: 34% (Accuracy 46%)
Snap: 25% (Accuracy 65%)
Aimed: 50% (Accuracy 100%)

>Plasma Rifle
Auto: 36% (Accuracy 55%)
Snap: 30% (Accuracy 86%)
Aimed: 60% (Accuracy 100%)

>Heavy Plasma
Auto: 35% (Accuracy 50%)
Snap: 30% (Accuracy 75%)
Aimed: 60% (Accuracy 110%)

>>2375560
Note to this, Lasers are not more accurate per shot, but have a lower TU cost and thus a higher chance to score 1 hit per round in a vacuum. You can get two aimed shots out of laser rifle vs one for a rifle or heavy plasma. This becomes meaningless once you hit 100% accuracy with heavy plasma though since a single hit will take down anyone.

I think Rockets are one of the best weapons in the game though, the rocket launcher has the highest accuracy of any weapon in the game on an aimed shot and large rockets do 110 HE damage to targets hit directly, with a 50-150% spread instead of a 0-200% spread with normal weapons. It's not hard to get ~90% accuracy, and there's always the bonus that you might kill multiples in one shot.

>>2375690
So lasers are not more accurate, but they get more shots per turn and are thus more likely to score a hit...Hmmm..Sounds like they are more suited to be a close-quarters weapon, or would be if they did enough damage.

I just lost my first game of Ironman Superhuman. I had wound up with a poor score in May despite not failing any missions (I couldn't keep up with a lot of alien craft with just normal interceptors, so a lot of them got away, and I only had two bases with hyper-wave decoders), and in June, I was poised to get another poor score, so I opted to invade what I thought was a sectoid base since it would be a good chance to get a psi capable alien. Turns out, Japan was housing Mutons instead, secoids were actually in Siberia (China was also a Muton base, North Africa had Mutons I think, and I'm pretty sure there was an Ethereal base about to spring up as well). Anyway, I had left the explosives at home for my troops, packed way too many heavy weapon platforms for non-psi enemies, and was pretty much running around with laser rifles and jumpsuits. We put up a good fight, but we were clearly outnumbered and outgunned, so I decided to gather the troops and assault the command center (I think if you blow up the command consoles you kill the base, so it would've salvaged the mission for a positive score even if we lost a Skyranger and the entire crew) only to eat a blaster bomb on my remaining seven troops.

Couldn't order up a new skyranger fast enough, so no second try on a base. Funding was cut, X-COM disbanded despite making twice what the funding nations pay me in laser cannon sales. Next game I'm going straight to craft research to attempt to control the skies better, most missions weren't so bad even with just laser rifles (Plasma was at a premium since I had weapon self destruct on), so I think controlling the alien threat by controlling the skies would be the best course of action.

>>2378238
Did you assemble a laser cannon sweatshop in your base?

>>2378798
Yeah, I had 150 engineers cranking out a laser cannon every other hour. I was going to get more manufacturing plants set up to support the war effort, but I was worried about maintenance outpacing me on a particular month and going into debt.

>>2379040
I guess your mistake was to go for the base instead of faming supply ships. Still, well played, I guess. Sometimes I wish OXC had a feature to save replays. At least comabt ones.

>I think if you blow up the command consoles you kill the base
And yes, this is correct.