/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2353103
fun

>Any features or mechanics from retro games you'd like to see in modern games?
A good AAA game.

>>2353121

Fun is obligatory, if it ain't fun I'm not releasing anything.

>>2353123

What do you mean? AAA game that's basically a remake of a retro game or?

>>2353129
>What do you mean? AAA game that's basically a remake of a retro game or?
A good AAA game.

>>2353131

>good AAA game

Good luck finding one.

textures resolutions matching the models' poly counts

How about the ability to play the entire game and achieve 100% completion without having to connect to the internet?

Map that is not full of shit.
Take Bloodborne as an example: chokefull of ragdoll breakable decoration that serves no purpose and wastes CPU cycles that could be used in better graphics.

unlockables
cheat codes
local multiplayer
game manuals that aren't just a leaflet with healthy/safety info
no forced tutorial bullshit

>>2353691

Not sure what you mean.

>>2353801

That's a given, there'll be no connecting to the internet whatsoever in my game so you can install and play it completely offline.

>>2353825

Haven't played Bloodborne, but I guess that means "No pointless bullshit".

>>2353827

Unlockables like in-game abilities or that achievement crap? Or do you mean actual unlockables like hidden characters and such.

Hmm, might do cheatcodes, but I find that in every game I find a cheatcode in I keep cheating and eventually the game gets boring.

Local multiplayer, that's a must. But might not make it into this game, probably the sequel.

Game manuals, hmm.

Yeah I hate forced tutorials as well.
It was just pure stupidity that there was a tutorial section in Metroid Other M.

Like the page peps, there's updates daily.

>>2354432
>Not sure what you mean.
late 90's/very early 2000 games hit a sweet spot in 3D graphics where the models and textures are clear and consistent while still carrying a good amount of detail with little clutter

later games seem more graphically cluttered and less consistent, with textures greatly varying in blurriness/sharpness and models in poly density, or just not feeling right - i.e. textures are sharp but faces are still flat and thus don't look detailed; or 3D models have a lot of polygons but are blurry because of low-res textures

probably because graphics cards don't advance evenly in both texture and vertex power, and devs just want max. of everything

enemies without hitscan weapons
weapons that are more complicated than a projectile flying forward
actual level design and not procedurally generated stages or webs of ultrarealistic urban corridors
health regen not being the main mechanic
no incremental weapon progression
jumping sections
actual bosses

>>2354471

I see what you mean now, that does look very, very clear.

>later games seem more graphically cluttered and less consistent

The worst I saw was probably in the PS3/Xbox360/PC version of the newest Turok, where all the dinosaurs and such was detailed, then you had the floor and grass which looked like the original N64 Turok.

Will keep this in mind, but my current project is 2D. Very interesting stuff though, would love to hear more about this or anything similar.

>>2354471
I know that feel.
>freedom fighters
>armed and dangerous
>american mcgee alice

Getting a decent computer and finally being able to go above 640X480 and a constant 60fps was a big deal for me back then. Right after those golden years I got DOOM3 and all that went out the window.

>>2353103
Extra characters, weapons, areas all being unlocked within the game, and not bought online as DLC.

>>2354520

Does extra characters apply to Metroidvanias?

Nothing will be DLC as I don't plan to make any, DLC is just evil. Especially pre-release DLC.

As for everything being available in the game, if you have the skill to find them it'll be available.

I liked when games were prepared to prepared to punish you for dying. Nowadays, convenience seems to come ahead of motivation, and when you are punished it's usually that you have to watch a cutscene again.
It may be coming back in with the resurgence of roguelikes, though.

>>2354539

Punish in what way?
Anything that applies to Metroidvanias?

>>2354548
>>2354529
>Metroidvanias
Is this some kind of troll?

>>2354553

Nope, just some doing some R&D for my game.

I know that in Guacamelee there are character skins and 2 playable characters. So I'm wondering if someone would possibly want multiple characters in a Metroidvania.

>>2354573
I wouldn't mind it.
If you make one have some kind of power that other do not posses, and different routes suited to each of them. Maybe even make so that its enforced to take powerups (allowing you to progress throu the game) in different order.
That would encourage ME to play this game with both characters, Doubling lenght of the game.
Just make sure that characters won't be too same-y.
It would also make designing levels tricky, but worth it

Keeping things brief. New game / load game / options, that's fucking it.
Less hand-holding tutorial levels, more level design that forces you to think outside the box and learn that shit on your own.

>>2354642

That's what I got so far.

Since the story revolves around saving a character at the end. What would you think about that character being able to be played by a second player for the final boss?

you press the start button at the title screen and then you immediately start playing the game. no 3 hour intro movie, no bullshit tutorial level.

>>2354707

I have the title screen and main menu with options and a "Select Save" menu.

Is that too much?

Seconding >>2354627 >>2354642 and >>2354498
Multiple characters are a nice feature, especially if they incorporate different gameplay mechanics.
Platforming sections are often annoying, unless these are not too long and jumping is precise and responsive. Guacamelee is a good example.

>>2354648
That would seem rather pointless in a single-player game. Most players can't find someone to help them in this case, and even if they do, the second player is unlikely to be of much help, since he probably didn't play this game before.

>>2354498

Don't know how I didn't see this before.

Enemies definitely won't be hitscan.

What kind of weapons do you suggest?
Projectiles flying forward is kind of the only type of weapon there is, aside from AOE devices.

HP regen won't be in the game.

You mean like weapons having levels? Definitely won't be in the game.

Jumping sections? Surely you mean platforming.

How would you describe actual bosses?

>>2354792

>>2354792

>Guacamelee is a good example

It is. Any idea how to do the platforming in the game? Usually they're just there to show what the abilities can do and such, should there be some pure platforming sections like a maze?

>Most players can't find someone to help them in this case, and even if they do, the second player is unlikely to be of much help, since he probably didn't play this game before.

What about if the second character mirrored your actions to help defeat the boss?

>>2353103
The ability to just play. I love stories but modern games tend to suck the fun out before it even begins. Japanese games are the biggest offenders.

Done right: Bioshock
Done wrong: Every Zelda since OoT.

>>2354824

What would you think about a game without a story? Just pure gameplay, tight and responsive controls, bug free. But no story.

>>2354817
>What kind of weapons do you suggest?
>Projectiles flying forward is kind of the only type of weapon there is, aside from AOE devices.

Surely you jest. Melee weapons, for start. Throwing your opponents and using other physics-related effects. Traps, mines stuff like that. Using dangerous environment. Killing by proxy, i.e. making enemies kill each other. A combination of aforementioned methods, projectiles or AOE. See BFG from original Doom, for example.

>>2354842

Throwing your opponents and physics related effects, wouldn't that be telekenisis/magic.

Using the environment is using the environment doesn't mean it's a weapon.

Killing by proxy would technically be a debuff or status effect, since it's confusing the enemy, not turning them into a weapon.

Anyway, good points though.

What would you suggest for a 2D Metroidvania / Action-Platformer similar to Metriod?

>>2354824
>The ability to just play.
>Done right: Bioshock
>Done wrong: Every Zelda since OoT.
wtf are you talking about?

I've never played Bioshock nor do I plan to play a FPS with dipshit ai like all those games have so maybe I'm missing something.

Written dialogue, because it allows for so much more depth.

Exploration. It's either huge and empty (far cry, gta) or just linear and boring in most modern games.

Personally I think ~1998-2004 was the golden age of video games, of course with brilliant examples before and after too. But those years were amazing.

>>2354821
>What about if the second character mirrored your actions to help defeat the boss?

Not very interesting, i'd say. Something in the lines of Cave Story with Curly Brace assisting or final boss battle of Shovel Knight would be more appropriate.

>>2354847
By killing by proxy I also meant possession, like in Abe's Oddysee.
>What would you suggest for a 2D Metroidvania / Action-Platformer similar to Metriod?
Enemies shouldn't hurt you when you touch them, only their attacks should. This mechanic is obsolete and stupid.

>>2354860
>1998-2004
I keep seeing these year ranges thrown around with them ending in 2004.
I don;t understand it because the early 6th gen games were pretty shit and almost all 6th games are corridor hell.
On PC it makes no sense either.

>>2354863
I imagine it just has to do with the age of the majority of people on 4chan. My "golden age" is roughly 4-5 years earlier than theirs, and I'm sure someone older than me would have a problem with mine.

>>2354836
Not this Anon, but I like to know who I am, what Im doing and why.
Even if its just one line of text saying 'Hey! This bad guy killed your cat! Go kick his ass!'

Also I like different environments. Not necessarily different mechanics for every one, just don't make everything happen in same boring caves/corridors. Add in some greens, water, maybe some sunshine, rain, snow, Things like this.
Thats purely reason I loved Knytt (not retro but go look it up if you want to) to bits.

>>2354868

My idea for a story was something like this:

>Your girlfriend is kidnapped
>You fight your way around
>Each boss tells you "Your girlfriend is in another space station"
>Find the final boss, kill him normal attacks or a latch
>Final boss gets stucked out into space
>So do you if you don't have the gravity suit
>Find gf
>Turns out you were fighting the government or some equally large organization
>Sequel revolves around a blonde bounty hunter tracking you or something (Also might be co-op


Basically this game is a stepping stone for something better and better.

The thing with this game is that I want it small enough for me to finish, it's easy for me to get ahead of myself and then I'm lost in the scope and it's never released.

>>2354863
Games like starcraft, half life, planescape:torment, arcanum, system shock 2, deus ex, and a load of good console games were released during that period. Among others.

>>2354860
>>2354863
>>2354882

Good game stopped getting released in 2009.
That's why I always refer to gaming pre-09 and post-09. Same thing with movies in general.

I miss Jak and Daxter, one of my favourite games.

>>2354882
>and a load of good console games were released during that period. Among others.
A lot of absolute garbage was released after 2000 on console. HALO being the main example and when the trend went to garbage generic FPS games being top sellers.
I don't get how anyone thinks golden age for consoles extended into 6th gen.
And if you want to include all games it makes even less sense. Arcades were dead by then.
>>2354865
I separate it because the 3 have different golden ages if you ask me.
-Arcades being sometime after PacMan or Space invaders to 98 with probably the last good SF release.
-Consoles 85 - 98
Mario on NES and ending with OoT
-PC would depend if you include Doom. I personally don't because there's pretty big gaps in time between major releases of great games after.
98-2007
You had unreal/quake arena to start it and it ended with CoD 4. There was amazing game after amazing game being released in that time period. HL, HL2, CS 1.6, Source, TF2, CoDs leading to and including CoD4, BF 1943, BF 2, 2k4, Quake 4, Diablo II, Morrowind, Warcraft III, Portal, Rome: Total War , and a lot more.

>>2354875
>that storyline
10/10 would make movie of.

But seriously now. It's so corny and silly that you HAVE to make it non-serious. If you try to make this dead serious, it would end up just dead instead. Let player acknowledge that game doesn't take itself serious story-wise.

>small enough to finish
Its not a crime to start and end small when you're uncertain in your dedication.

>>2354893

>But seriously now. It's so corny and silly that you HAVE to make it non-serious

That's the idea, it's supposed to be a parody of Mario and taking shots at Nintendo for not releasing more Metroid games.

>Its not a crime to start and end small when you're uncertain in your dedication.

I'm certain in dedication, the game's nearly done in terms of programming. I just don't want to bloat the game or make it so big that I spent 10 decades in production without releasing and earning anything.

>>2354875
Look, here's a list of things that are mandatory to capturing a retro action game feel
>elements are introduced in a way that lets players figure out what they do without outright handholding
>there are multiple new elements per stage, from interesting enemies to stage hazards. Don't reuse more than basic template elements in every level.
>optional, but probably a good idea: the game is very hard without any secrets, and the difficulty of the game is balanced around the expectation the player will explore to find secrets (think castlevania wall chicken, or those health pickups in hard to reach places in megaman)

That'll be your basis with level design, i think. Totally scalable up and down, too, so you dont need to make something huge for it.

>>2354909

Good list.

What if I made all or some of the more powerful abilities a secret?

>>2353801
Still doable. Look for DRM-Free editions and you're more likely to see one.

>>2354924
Like the spur in cave story? I'm always down for that. Just make sure the game isn't TOO hard without those abilities, or too easy WITH them.

If you do multiple endings, though, don't make it depend on some unfathomable hidden secret that has no plot significance. Whether i get the good ending shouldnt depend on whipping the walls to break them to find an item, then kneeling for 5 minutes.

>>2353103
>>>/vg/
>>>/agdg/

Post progress

>>2354943

Go to

ht
tps:/
/www
.facebook
.co
m/c.NITL

I post my progress there, just made it a couple days ago. 4chan won't let me post the entire link.

>>2354950
I don't use Zuckerbook

>>2354954

I don't use reddit.

I love how you keep starting these threads as an excuse to promote your game which isn't retro.

>>2354943
by your powers combined
>>>/vg/agdg/

>>2354998
Hey, as long as he take advices and make enjoyable game in the end, I don't mind.

>>2354836
SMB has no story but it is still a masterpiece today. I think it would be nice if vidyas tried to convey some sort of "story" or "message" with the gameplay itself. Think of something like Jason Roher's games but make it actually fun. Nobody wants to read lines and lines of pointless dialogue just for the sake of "lore".

>>2355072

Wrong. There are literally millions of people who want to read that.

>>2355072
>Nobody wants to read lines and lines of pointless dialogue just for the sake of "lore".
Because modern games usually have bullshit story lines.

I like lore and it great to have as long as there's a skip button.

>>2355076
If I wanted to read something good I'd get a book, not a fucking video game.

>>2355072
>Implying
Yeah, no one spends five minutes talking to Dagoth Ur before killing him, amirite?

>>2355072

>Think of something like Jason Roher's games

I looked him up, his stuff is bullshit:
Minecraft v1.8 with the seed "Chain World", only one person plays it at a time in the entire world, and the first person to get it other than him sells it for 3.5K on ebay. It is then never played again.
Goddamn, at least release the source so groups of friends can play it.

Or his epic "I buried a titanium board game in the Nevada desert, here's a list of 1 million co-ordinates. Go find it."

Anyway, I'll probably end up taking Metroid/SMB's route of having no text or anything, just the game and what you can extrapolate from it.

>>2355076

Sometimes it can get tedious. FFXIII being a perfect example of complete and utter bullshit. The game comes with a god-damn encyclopaedia because it's so incomprehensible.

>>2355094

You get a book with every game.
It's called the manual.

>>2354998

I just want to make an enjoyable game, I have no intention of creating something that's crap to play or not enjoyable. What better place to ask than a retro forum?

If I wanted to promote it I'd use that reddit link everyone keeps posting.

>>2354943
>>2355000

>Nice trips and dubs, checked

I post on facebook, can't be bothered with reddit, unless it has a huge following in that thread?

necrobump

Movement that isn't sluggish. This is a HUGE problem with games that used wireframe animation (read: every 3-D game). Sprite based games had MUCH more precise controls.

>>2355206
>You get a book with every game.
>It's called the manual.

Does this still happen? I haven't actually bought a modern boxed game for... it's probably getting on for 10 years or something like that.

>>2358502
Some still do. They're nothing great though. Very basic controls, etc. No lore or anything like that.

>>2358498

Define sluggish, like the player is too slow or the animation is too slow/fast for the movement speed or something?

>>2358502
>>2358571

So should I include lore in the manual?

>>2355206
>I just want to make an enjoyable game, I have no intention of creating something that's crap to play or not enjoyable. What better place to ask than a retro forum?

A forum for game developers or where people are actively playing modern indie games? Even a retro forum where modern indie games with retro aesthetic are accepted as part of the discussion? (There are plenty!)

Better still is to find humans local to you who will play your prototypes so you can study them. You don't really need to reach out to the whole world to develop a good game... but you do need to do so to market it.

>>2358726

>
A forum for game developers or where people are actively playing modern indie games? Even a retro forum where modern indie games with retro aesthetic are accepted as part of the discussion? (There are plenty!)

Can't find any good ones, a lot of the forums I found were 11 year olds or people who don't even know how to find the most basic of features that are even in the manual.

>Better still is to find humans local to you who will play your prototypes so you can study them.

This would be great, except that I live on a mountain and don't have a car. And my nearest friend is in Netherlands (I'm not even in that country).

>>2353827
>no forced tutorial bullshit

I'm not a fan of Egoraptor really, but he had a point regarding this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM

>>2354529
What's wrong with DLC? If you make a game and it is successful, people like it, why can't you come with more levels/new modes as a DLC a year later or something?=

>>2354824
I tried to play Bioshock last year, I gave it up because it was so boring. Not fun at all. You just go around and shoot bots and it's not hard at all.

>>2358742

I wouldn't make DLC. I would make expansion packs, and they'd be named as such. None of this DLC and "Season Pass" bullshit.

If it's successful, people like it and want more, then sure I'd expand the game. Or make a sequel.

I was mostly referring to release day DLC and stupid crap like horse armour.

>>2358748
I my mind, expansion packs and DLCs are the same thing.

Cyberpunk. We have Shadowrun and Deus Ex, but I still wish more games were being made around this.

Also Lagrange Point-esque Space Opera settings. That's been slightly lost outside /m/anly shows.

>>2358750

Sure but I remember expansion packs as huge boxes you'd get for games like Age of Empires or Warcraft.

When I think of DLC, images of 15 dollar map packs which were such imported from the previous game which no effort whatsoever.

>>2353103
>Any features or mechanics from retro games you'd like to see in modern games?
A sense of mystery.

I don't see how you'd regain it in full without shutting down the Internet but it's worth thinking about.

I want an action game that plays like DMC4 but has the format of Mega Man with stage select, get a new weapon from each boss, then final stages, boss rush, final boss.

>>2358753
>Cyberpunk
This has been making a comeback lately. Have you played Transistor yet?

Besides things that have already been mentioned:

- Custom servers for online FPSs, along with servers browsers that actually allow you to pick a server instead of being forced to put up with some bullshit automated matchmaking service
- Intuitive map editors, like the one for Starcraft 1
- Crazy weapons that aren't generic SMGs or sniper rifles
- Games that are actually released in a finished state
- Powerups that actually do cool shit
- Gibbing and copious amounts of blood
- Being able to hold more than 2/3 weapons at once in an FPS
- Destructible objects, like exploding barrels, chairs you can smash, windows you can shatter, etc.
- Grappling hooks

where you can play sound and music clips like Sonic

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