/vr/ - Retro Games

MGS4. I watched a Let's Play of it just so I could be up to speed on the story, and I always just say I played it whenever the subject comes up.
Also I know it's not retro. Go ahead and report me, no skin off my ass.

>>2333402
This is where Final Fantasy lost me, as a series. FF was always trying to change the formula, which is great, but they never kept changes that worked or tried to refine things further, it's always just new systems for the sake of the new. Each new iteration dumbed it down while also managing to complicate the game needlessly.

Why in the world would you do that?
Nobody can be expected to play every game.
Who are you trying to impress?

>>2333419
everyone fibs sometimes

>>2333416
yeah. i enjoy pretty much every other FF game and spin-off I just cannot get into FF8

>>2333416
How dare they try something new.

All the 3D FF games

my brother played them all I did was watch (did play FFIV and FFVI).

>>2333416
Have you at least played 9?

>>2333613
I played about 30 hours, enough to get bored with it. It was charming enough but felt awfully paint by numbers, like the game was making sure it hit these specific marks and then moved on. And I don't like the chibi style, it's just a style I can't get into -- I have the same problems with the DS remakes.

I feel like the last thing FF got right was the gambit system. Which of course was abandoned.

crash bandicoot

i never touched one but everyone talked about it as if it was some kind of mario for psx so i just nodded when heard about it

>>2333419
Seconded. Op is a pussy.

>>2333617
I could never buy into the gambit system because it always felt like "lol, keep playing to find more basic strategies that your characters should already be able to think up on their own." I mean, I liked the automation and stuff, and I can understand the meta-reasoning of leveraging gambit discovery as an incentive to keep playing, but it doesn't make sense in-universe (nor did the license system). I just want my battle systems not to be artificially restricted without a decent in-universe explanation, at the very least.

>>2333626
it's just a fun thread. no need to be a dick.

>>2333416
>This is where Final Fantasy lost me, as a series. FF was always trying to change the formula, which is great, but they never kept changes that worked or tried to refine things further, it's always just new systems for the sake of the new.

I respect your opinion but Final Fantasy is honestly a breathe of fresh air in an industry saturated with sequels. No other industry out there is saturated to death with sequels like the gaming industry is.

I seriously wish more series out there did what FF did for the most part. Metal Gear Solid is one of the worst offenders of long running series that should have been done with at least a decade ago now. We all know Konami will never kill that cash cow. That story will be dragged on until gaming crashes or Konami has absolutely no choice but to milk another cow.

I just cannot agree with you one bit here. This is what Final Fantasy needed to be and it's success has shown that Square's method worked very well. With that said I have only fully played VI, VII, X and XII. Will eventually play the others.

>>2333450
Yeah, Because Everyone loves 13's combat

>>2333402

you probably lie ab out all kinds of shit; you think it will help you "belong". it doesn't. people don't like liars.

I still don't really understand why people hate FF 8 so much.

It's characters were no worse than any other FF character as far as dialogue or even backstory in the game. The locations and music were beautiful.

Although by disc 3 the story goes wonky, it still has a decent battle system and final boss fight.

>>2334003

can you vaguely describe #
>wonky
without spoilering it for me? i only played till middle of disc 1.

>>2334004
Well, it doesn't go bad (in my opinion anyway). It just takes unexpected turns and goes a bit more psychedelic or something. Kind of messy, but still one of my all time favorite games.

>>2334009

what you describe doesn't sound wonky, sounds awesome and soulblazer-esque!

>>2333720
Not the guy you replied to, but while I always appreciate originality, there's also the very simple issue of what works and what doesn't. While Square easily could have made Final Fantasy VII v1.5 and it would have still sold like hotcakes, they didn't, they did something entirely new, and I applaud them for that... but what they did was just sort of a mess, gameplay AND storywise. However, I feel like it got a "free pass" and avoided a lot of the criticism it should have earned simply because it was next in line after FFVII, and fanboys wanted to love it, plain and simple. It had that same, future-tech feel that FF7 had, and you could draw enough parallels between the characters and tone that it still fit the bill where it mattered.

Stupidly, about 5 years ago, I was trying to get into Final Fantasy. I had never played one and I asked my friends, all rabid fanboys, which I should play. A number of them fervently agreed that 8 was a masterpiece and that I would love it. I don't think I have ever been so utterly let down by a game. I found the functioning system a terrible substitute for customization, and it's not only until years later and having learned more about FF7 that I realize just how bad it is. In FF7, the customization system rewarded you for hunting down materia and equipment and figuring out clever ways to combine them to get helpful effects. In FF8, you get to draw spells for hours and slap them onto characters who are blank slates and make them invincible. They essentially invented a second layer of grinding that rewarded the player for being stupidly persistent, instead of creative. It all goes back to the argument that JRPGs are power fantasies that don't challenge the player or require them to hone their own skills to get better, but instead offers the safety net of leveling up as a substitute for strategy, which is certainly true for some, but here, not only is it present, it's pushed upon you as a mechanic.

>>2334116
And this is to say nothing of my hatred for the characters and plot, which I found completely abhorrent. My friends, who recommended the game to be, did not understand how I couldn't find them entirely likable and compelling, while I was baffled by how they could stand them at all. It makes sense now, when I think about it. Obviously, there was still the fact that they were in love with the franchise back then, and were like 14 years old and thought it could do no wrong, but also they were angst-ridden middle school students with unsatisfied sex-drives. This game is fucking custom made for that genre. You have a protagonist who is an introverted, indifferent pretty boy who goes to an assassin's school and has women falling all over him. That reads like a jaded teenager's fanfiction any way you slice it.

Now, I only played partway through the second disc and then had to quit. All of my friends were disappointed I didn't like it, but I just couldn't stand it. Years after I ended up watching one of them play through most of it, and damn, it never got better. The plot degenerated into an absolute mess of half-assed existentialism and emotional shit that was all the rage at the time (and... still is, really). What irks me the most is that they continue to believe that the reason I hate the game is that they "over-hyped" it to me, and that they shouldn't have explained the junctioning system as they did. They will NOT listen to any of my criticisms, which I feel are totally valid.

If this is your favorite game, I totally dig you. We all like what we like and that's it, whether it's for nostalgia or because we legitimately, continuously enjoy it, but this game rubbed me the wrong way. In the years since, I tried playing both FF7 and 9 and found them to be much more enjoyable, so 8 and I just seem to be fundamentally at odds.

>>2334116
The next time I play FF8 (if I ever get around to it again), I'm playing with this idea that Squall is just a huge card game geek and weird shit just happens along the way on his quest to be the ultimate triple triad master.

>>2333402
This one right here. I eventually just took to telling people I'd played it so they'd stop pestering me to. I like every other Final Fantasy up to and including 9, but despite numerous attempts with both the original, PS1 port and DS port I have never been able to make it even half way through before becoming so bored that I dread even looking at my game console because I didn't want to keep playing it.

It's like they ditched all the experimentation and freedom of 1-3 and gave you cookie cutter characters so they could focus on story more, but then those parts are themselves terrible.

Even having only played the first one and being like 12 when it came out, it felt boring and pointless. When I eventually found the REAL FFII it ended up being one of my favorites.

At least the music was good.

>>2334120
Saying FF8's only appeal is for middle schoolers that want to get laid? Tifa is way more middle school lust tier over small breasted Rinoa. I've fapped to Tifa way more than Rinoa.

>>2334003
FF8 has great production values with a terrible combat system and an unsympathetic cast that consists of the emo, the hot head, the genki girl, the guy dressed like a cowboy, the teacher, and the love interest. The extent of their characterization is that they grew up together.

The music, the FMVs, the crazy addictive card game, the backgrounds, all that stuff was great. Its just that the plot was a mess consisting of "We're going to fight the witch for reasons" followed by "Oh no, the love interest is sick with witch flu, lets fix her".

>>2334145
dem titties

>>2333419
I assumed he meant lying about NOT playing it. I'd never admit to playing some horseshit weaboo cutscene game to another human being. Keep that shit to yourself, if you just can't contain your autism at least talk about train schedules or dinosaurs or something.

>>2333720
I'd argue a big problem with the game industry is that they still have trouble with the concept of trailers and have relied way too much on studio reputation and franchise reputation to push units.

The difficulty of it is that you do a pure cutscene trailer, people accuse you of not showing game play, and game play trailers just seem to be utterly terrible at conveying the type of game that it is, while half the time managing to include some tool describing how to play a level in a monotone voice.

>>2334141
What a fucking tool I am. I had meant to post this with it. FFIV was the game I was talking about. I actually like FFVIII pretty well aside from it's main cast.

>>2334169
I generally don't think trailers are a good way to market games at all. A short one is okay, but like you say it's hard to really convey gameplay in them.

This is why I think demos are king. One of the best things Microsoft ever did was make it a rule that every Arcade and indie game had to have a demo and they were very good about getting them for the full games as well.

Even if it's short and minimal, being able to actually play a game for a few minutes is a way better way of judging than any trailer could ever be.

>>2334139
And suddenly the plot is brilliant.

>>2333720
>No other industry out there is saturated to death with sequels like the gaming industry is.
Unfortunately nowadays FF is more about trying to make another VII than anything else.

Just look at XIII's cast.

>>2334139
>>2334249
Even Squall finally makes sense.

>Hey Squall, come help up defeat Ultimecia, she's tearing fucking time apart!
>....Whatever (can we play cards after this?)

>>2334145
They're both for middle schoolers.
8 is for middle school edgelords.
7 is for middle school beta nerds.

I always lie about having played FF games. I've played a few but never beaten a single one. Too boring and drawn-out. And I'm a JRPG fan.

>>2334340
top maymay cuh, i r8 tripledouble/10

>>2334169
I think trailers and demos are a terrible, if necessary development in modern gaming. It puts too much pressure on the devs from publishers, when they should be focusing on the final product. Trade shows are now anything but that, they're just ridiculously expensive commercials for consumers. Marketing in general is awful and spends way too much of a game's budget, when hype should just be built organically.

>>2333720
>No other industry out there is saturated to death with sequels like the gaming industry is.
Uhh, movies are pretty much the worst. Books aren't much better either, most top selling mass market novels are either a franchise or in a genre where the content is so similar as to function like a sequel. You could make an argument in music or TV, too (nearly every band and tv show ends up getting progressively worse at the thing it once did well). All media is unfortunately built on regurgitation of previous content.

Anything made by SNK. They all look like Street Sighters, so maybe we played them.

>>2334393

>LOL Look at THIS meme! xP What a faggot!

>Posts a meme in response

I don't lie about having played any games. I know you're all NEETs like me sitting there in your PJs eating unhealthy foods, playing vidya, talking about games and spanking to pornography so there really isn't any reason to lie to impress you.

Its a good game.

>>2334145
>Rinoa
Shit tier. If you're not a Treppie we've got nothing to talk about.

>>2334393
What? It's true. Play a real RPG you fag.

Screw you guys, Yuffie is best.

>>2334637
Behind Zell and Eiko, Yuffie is the FF character I hate the absolute most.

>>2334418
Shhh. Keep it down. The indie scenes will hear you and get defensive.

>>2333640
I hated the gambit system because it made FF12 feel like even more of an offline single-player MMO than it already did.

If I wanted to play an MMO I'd play an MMO.

>>2334145
No, it appeal to trannies too

>>2333402
That's the 3rd-4th best FF so I don't see the point OP

>>2334637
Agreed

>>2335431
I think I read a poorly drawn doujin about that...

>>2334681
Every FF since FF4 has been a love story. The characters, as typical of FF, were all shallow. The main difference is that FF8 has shit gameplay.

>>2334476

I hope to god you mean image macro

>>2333720
Being original and unoriginal has almost nothing to do with anything when it comes to playability. As long as it's fun, it's good. Originality doesn't factor into it much. Look at Pokemon. It's still the exact same game today as it was in the 90s and they're still getting it done. In my opinion it's easier to keep making good games when you make the same game over and over.

That said, Final Fantasy has managed to survive... kind of. Ever since Enix got involved and we ended up with horrendous ideas like Final Fantasy X-2 and later horrendous games like Final Fantasy XIII, it went downhill, but with XIV:A Realm Reborn (an MMO, I know, but still) they're starting to come back and have the possibility of potentially becoming good again. But that's more to do with who they are. Most games that try to be original end up being dogshit that we try to forget. Think of where Star Fox could be right now if they'd have stopped being dumb and just made another rail shooter like everyone was telling them to. We could live in a world where Star Fox meant more than furry porn. It could still be Street Fighter levels of popular, dude.

>>2333989
It's not that it's bad, it just doesn't make sense. I can understand attacks, defenses and special attacks but what's happening to a character when he is in this or that paradigma? Is it a mindset thing? Final Fantasies man...

>>2335551
>X-2
Ugh dont even remind me of that jank. Biggest waifu pandering fan-service game ever.
Although, I admit 14 year old me really enjoyed it.

>>2335881
You're asking why lore-wise the characters don't use offensive magic while in synergist or something?

>>2333402
its never too late bb

Can I put forward everybody who now claims to have played the original King's Field 'back in the day' since From Software have blown up? No. You didn't. Now fuck off you posers.

>>2335971
I did. I didn't have a memory card, either. It's just that there were so few games at the beginning of the PS1. I played a little Kings Field (rented it), but mostly Ridge Racer and Toshinden.

>>2335431
HNNNGG

>>2334146
>The extent of their characterization is that they grew up together.
That's a lie and you know it. You didn't mention anything about how the cowboy acts like a womanizer and a hotshot, but he starts feeling pressured, he loses his nerve. I know you're exaggerating for effect, but there's a limit.

I could similarly reduce the characters in any other RPG to throwaway cliches like you did. Rydia? Vulnerable "little sister" character. Galuf? Slapstick old man, just a younger Strago. Kefka? The fucking Joker.

Seriously, the fact that you're still referring to Squall as "the Emo" shows how superficial your criticism of this game is. Of course the dude looks like a visual kei reject, that was (and still is) the era. But his personality traits aren't any different from other heroes of the genre, except he actually shows believable leadership qualities, and I'm not talking about the usual, "Let's go get 'em, gang! FOR HUMANITY!"

>Majora's Mask
>Ocarina Of Time
>Chrono Trigger
>Secret Of Mana
>FF6

Rage commencing in 3...2...1.....

>>2336205
>Majora's Mask
Never played
>Ocarina Of Time
Boring
>Chrono Trigger
Excellent, but vastly overrated
>Secret Of Mana
Huge letdown. Especially after the fantastic Gameboy game
>FF6
Never played

This is now a waifu threat. Who is your waifu for each FF game?
>FF1-Princess Sarah, I guess. Only chick there.
>FF2-Forgot bitch's name. Mariah or something
>FF3-Never played
>FF4-Rydia
>FF5-Faris
>FF6-Celes
>FF7-Yuffie
>FF8-Rinoa, I guess. Not too fond of any of them
>FF9-Garnet
>FF10-Rikku (waifu #1 of the series)

>>2336229
>FF1-Gameplay
>FF2-Haven't played
>FF3-Gameplay
>FF4-Music
>FF5-Gameplay
>FF6-Gameplay/Music
>FF7-Music
>FF8-Music
>FF9-Can't decide
>FF10-Not retro

I lied and said I played:

>Custer's Revenge
>E.T.
>Sunday Funday
>Bible Adventures
>Spiritual Warfare
>Noah's Ark 3D
>Quest 64
>Superman 64

>>2336229
My waifu for:
>FF 1 is the elf prince in the ruined castle
>FF 2 firion
>FF 3 moogle
>FF 4 White Mage girl
>FF 5 chocobo
>FF 6 Terra
>FF 7 Aeris
>FF 8 Whatever the main girl's name is
>FF 9 Priness Garnet
>FF 10 Yuna

>>2336441
Awful hard to jack your dick to that stuff

>>2336464
Don't know about the anon who posted that, but I jack it to Highwind Theme and FF II (Jap) overworld theme.

>>2336458
You know you like this green goblin faced little twink.

>>2336464
And I don't, although those things do get me a bit excited.

I've been playing the FF games starting from one and am in the middle of FF8. It's the first game in the series where I've felt MEH pretty often. How do they get afterward?

>>2337052
9 is good.
10 is an acquired taste.
Jerk off to 10-2 if you want.
Abandon ship after that.

>>2337052
There's a reason fan appreciation for the series drops like a stone after 7. You might like 9, so try it out, but otherwise, you've entered the terminal phase.

>>2337075
>>2337079
oof, ok thanks

>>2337052
waste of time. play ff9 instead

>>2337104

Don't listen to that guy, try 12. You'll either love it or hate it. It's pretty different for FF.

>>2337052
9 is nostalgia-inducing to the point of sheer navel-gazing. It has every strength and every weakness of all FFs combined, somehow.

10 is a solid entry that is generally well-liked but gets (undue) shit regarding the cutscenes. This is the last main entry that uses turns instead of paradigms.

12 is Final Fantasy on autopilot half the time, but has a great story.

13 is Final Fantasy 12 but NOT on autopilot and also gets unfairly shit on for all the same faults that FF has always had, but is now suddenly unacceptable because it's very cool to hate it. It's certainly noteworthy for easily being the hardest entry since 2.

On the expansions and other canonical games, X-2 is just weird but the gameplay is decent, 13-2 and 13-3 were better than 13, and Dissidia 012 is fucking awesome. Haven't played Type-0 yet.

One man's opinion, no need for a thousand
>he liked 13 opinion discarded
replies, thanks. I'm very easy to please, move on with your lives.

>>2337106
Confirmed for truth.

>>2337106

>>2335953
No, that's the thing. It wasn't a bad game. It was just a game with a REALLY bad premise. "Let's make a game about cute girls who do cute girl things in cute girl outfits and sing and stuff! ^__^" But somehow, they saved it by making it probably the best or at least one of the best Final Fantasies mechanically. It still manages about an 8/10 just in sheer gameplay even if it never should've been made in the first place. Someone should've looked at it while it was in writing before anything was even made and said no, that's unacceptable and does not meet Square's standards. Because in any other world where the gameplay didn't end up incredible, it would've been one of the worst games ever made.

If that's a kinda unreasonable concept, just imagine how good it would've been if it actually had a good premise. It could've been the best FF.

>>2336205
I played Majora for about half an hour then shut it off due to boredom as I'd spent the whole half-hour talking to NPCs. Maybe it gets better but if it takes half an hour to get to a single good bit I don't give a shit anymore.

>>2334139
>>2334249
>>2334285
>Squall the Triple Triad autist, savior of the world, master of children's card games
This is wonderful. Get it funded.

>>2334139
>>2337295
I don't know, the game did everything it could so you wouldn't get that feeling. Whenever you're playing a tense action moment, it will never be possible play cards, even if you ask NPCs with whom you can play cards during calm moments.

>>2336229
>matoya i guess idunno not alot of women
>princess hilda
>cloud of darkness with them tits
>rydia
>Faris
>celes
>tifa
>Lani
>lulu

>>2337109
12 is actually neat because it was helmed halfway through by the guy behind Tactics, the other half by the guy behind SaGa. Wish that could have kept going with 13 but it would have never happened.

Only unfortunate part was where they had the idea of making it kinda MMO-like, but at least it has a ton of side content like IX.

>>2337385
The battle system sucked though. And that's kinda a big deal. That's the only reason it's MMO-like. Without that, it could've been even better. The story was actually pretty interesting and the setting wasn't great but it was okay.

I was surprised it was so well rated. In fact, maybe the highest rated of any FF. I hated it as an avid MMO player at the time it came out because it just felt like a watered down, singleplayer version of an online game. Having tried it again more recently (past 6 months) with an open mind, it's not bad. But the battle system will still never match the traditional FF battle systems.

>>2337052
If you have played FF1-8, I think you should definitely play 9 as well.

>>2337160
I actually respect you for that FF13 opinion.

>>2333402
"we" as in ourselves
or "we" as in this board as a whole

if the former, I don't see the point in pretending to have played a game

if the latter, all the people who say they liked Zelda 2. there is not a single person on this board who could have possibly enjoyed that endless shit fest

>>2335963
Xu and Nida are the only reason that Garden didn't crash into the sea with the survivors subsisting on their own shoe leather for sustenance. The dog would have been a better field commander than Squall.

>lies about playing games
Taking patheticness to whole new level.

>>2338795
>Zelda 2
>shit fest
Most honest post in the thread so far.

>>2339571
It's no different to people that say how they claim they have listened to a band to sound cool in front of people.

https://youtu.be/W_IzYUJANfk

People are fucking posers, no matter what the topic is.

>>2333416
I like the fact that even if you weren't completely satisfied with the latest iteration of FF, you could, at one time, at least rely on the next one to have some different mechanics. That's sort of good and bad because you won't be stuck with something you hate being the game's standard mode of operation, but at the same time, the version you like the best will likely never be perfectly replicated either.

I'd actually say the combat of FF hit its peak in FF10 (Not that it was perfect, but the equipment customization gave a lot of room in how to build your characters, and being able to swap out characters mid battle for ones with other specializations was pretty great).

>>2341146
I truly loved FF10. The whole game was quite pretty as far as setting goes and the mechanics were solid, but really it's how the combat specifically played out that did it for me. Having turn order change on the side menu and having different actions happen at different rates is far from revolutionary, but it's better than the ATB system and probably my favorite form in RPG combat in any game. Customization helped, but it wasn't a major factor. FF9's ability+equipment system (forget what it's called) was more fun to me because it gave a reason to get and use everything for permanent growth. Also, Blitzball. And Aeons. And the Calm Lands boss area.

My biggest gripe with FF10 is it's kind of like Pokemon, Disgaea or other JRPGs of that sort where if you don't deliberately go out of your way to train everyone, you're going to end up with 3-4 great characters, one decent one and everyone else is going to be useless.

I used to consider FF9 the best FF for many years, but within this past year I've begun to realize that FF10 just stood the test of time better. There's nothing wrong with 9, 10 is just a much more complete, polished and enjoyable experience that ages well. It only came out 12 months later and it feels like it came out over a decade later.

>>2333419
/v/ does it a lot.
Hence why you see so many parroted comments that sound the same.

>>2341194
Maybe some opinions are just popular.

>>2341197
If your opinion lines up with anybody elses you're a parrot.

Idiot.

>>2341215
I don't think you realize how ironic that is.

>>2341216
You're an idiot.

>>2341238
Are you just pretending?

>>2341328
No, I really called you an idiot.

>>2337463
>But the battle system will still never match the traditional FF battle systems.
...It's still just ATB with MP and HP. You can run around a bit, but it doesn't effect the battles that much. What Dragon Age: Origins did with this style was turn it into an MMO with cool-down abilities and clearly defined tank/DPS/crowd control method to combat.

People get really caught up in FF12's third-person camera.

>>2341329
Oh, you're not pretending to be retarded. I'll be nice enough to tell you why you're wrong then.

Some people formulate opinions based on their own thoughts rather than what everyone else thinks. Sometimes these people end up agreeing on something because they're not retarded hipsters coerced into going against the grain just for the sake of doing so. Every opinion that isn't yours didn't come about from some random cluster of people conspiring against you. Similarly, someone will almost certainly share your opinion at any given moment which means it's pretty idiotic to think anyone whose opinion lines up with someone else's is just parroting them.

I shouldn't have even needed to tell you, but I guess it's to be expected from anyone who blames Reddit or 6th gen or /v/ or whatever for any opinion they disagree with on something as vast as the internet. So you're welcome for that.

>>2333617
Eh? FFIX is far from being chibi.