/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2326014
>nostalgia
It's not nostalgia, it's just a solid platformer with a cool art style and good music. DKC2 is widely considered the best.

>>2326014
Yeah OP, I can't get into it too much either. Its just incredibly bland gameplay-wise, and the graphics are dull.

It made people go bananas

>I find myself wondering what all the nostalgia is for.

Personally, the music is what makes me more nostalgic about DKC.
The graphics were incredibly good for 1994 (I hope you're playing on a CRT) and the controls feel fluid and nice. Level design is not bad, but yes, it got a LOT better on DKC 2, practically on everything.

DKC3 is hit and miss, the first levels are a total chore, it picks up later on, and they rely on unique gimmicks for each levels. Some people like it, some others don't. Music is also not quite as good as DKC1 and 2.

Anyway, if you aren't enjoying it, don't force yourself. But I'd still reccommend finishing DKC 1 (last 2 worlds have some neat, challenging levels) and at least trying out DKC 2, if by world 2 of DKC2 you aren't having any fun, that's it, not for you.

>>2326014
The "3D" graphics.

Even Miyamoto himself claimed the game was trash and people only liked it because it looked next-gen.

>>2326035
>Music is also not quite as good as DKC1 and 2.
hate this meme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57FQ_L0lH5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qxgzPzkDNk

>>2326014
2 is good but I like 1 just as much

>>2326014
it was the graphics and the music. if you dont like really zoomed in platforming with such clever mechanics such as jumping, throwing barrels, and riding on an animal so it can drive you off a cliff

seriously stay away from all the animals except the swordfish

>>2326038
He never said that.

>>2326038
He didn't say that

and DKC2 is a better game than SMW anyway

>>2326039

it's just an opinion bro, not a "meme".

I'm not saying DKC3's OST is bad, it's actually pretty good, but some of the tracks are forgettable, while on DKC1 and 2 nearly all music is 10/10 (to me at least).

I think this was because the composers were different. I know David Wise still worked on some of the stuff on 3, but not all of it.

>>2326045
Yes he did, in response to Nintendo execs asking him to do something in the style of DKC for the Mario World sequel.

It's not a very good game. I think it's massively over hyped by people whose parents wouldn't buy them a PS or a Saturn when they came out and were stuck with the SNES.

>DKC thread
>someone claims Miyamoto said DKC (a game he himself produced along with Rare) is "trash"

everytime

>>2326014
I played all three of them for the first time in 2013, so I was free of nostalgia glasses. I'd rate them all at:

DKC1: 5/10 (okay at best platformer, nothing especially daunting or memorable except for the barrel levels)

DKC2: 9/10 (seriously in my top 5 favorite 2d platformers of all time. Perfect difficulty in the later worlds and lost world, atmosphere as good as it gets in the 16 bit era, both characters control very fluidly)

DKC3: 7/10 (hardest of the trilogy, at least as far as the final levels and lost world is concerned. Dunno why nostalgiafags hate this one)

>>2326051
Oh fuck you we're not having this argument again

>>2326052

Most people get their facts from some game explanation channel, so they repeat it as if no one has ever heard about it.

People who say DKC is a mediocre platformer; what do you suggest as an alternative with more satisfying mechanics? Other than Mario of course. I've played a lot of platformers but not many come close to Mario or DKC2/DKC3 level.

>>2326051

>Saturn
>1994

m8.

And PS1 was pretty barebones in 1994. What did it have, some RTS ports from Microprose?

>>2326052
"Produced" in this context means giving credit to Miyamoto for creating Donkey Kong Arcade.

What part of design did Miyamoto handle for DKC? Pretty sure it was done 100% by Rareware in England if you take a look at the credits.

>>2326064

Do your research. I believe not too long ago, Shiggy commented on the subject of this whole urban myth about him hating on DKC.

>>2326068
Just to save face and make himself look not-butthurt after the fact, because shitting on a Nintendo IP doesn't look good to the public.

I played through this first time last year and it had me hooked. It's a great game.

I don't think that Motorola not wanting to make Yoshi's Island with pre-rendered 3D means that he thinks DKC was a bad game.

>>2326073

Haha, whatever you say dude.

Yamauchi was also an evil yakuza from hell :o

>>2326078
Whether or not Miyamoto really did say that, it's wrong to state that Miyamoto "wouldn't criticize his own product" because he didn't even work on the fucking videogame.

>>2326059
please respond

>>2326059
Plok
Mischief Makers
Mega Man X
Revenge of Shinobi
Ghosts 'N Goblins
Castlevania
Gimmick!
Kirby Super Star

>>2326121
Is MMX the most overrated platformer of all time?

I agree with the rest of your list and I do like the DKC trilogy, but MMX thoroughly bored me. The classic series is much better and much more difficult.

>>2326121
>Plok
That game felt like ass to me and the sprites were way too big.

Most of the other games you listed are action games and not strictly platformers

>>2326123
MMX is more of a action platformer. It's okay cause a lot of games don't live up to 2d platformers like Mario and DKC.

>>2326124
Platformers are a subset of action games, you know.

Also the platforming in RoS or Castlevania is much more precise than any Mario or DKC game.

>>2326051

It was hyped and the local Super Power magazine gave it a 100/100 rating which was admitted to be biased by the same hype, it was adjusted down with an excuse in a later issue.

Dude it's the best game on the SNES, if you don't like it you might be a miserable cynic

>>2326147
>Most of the other games you listed are action games and not strictly platformers
>Platformers are a subset of action games, you know.
??? You both are saying the same thing

>>2326121
I'm checking out Gimmick! now, it seems really good

thanks for the suggestion

>>2326049
He didn't say the thing you said he said.

>>2326147

Define "precise". Castlevania and Shinobi are platformers with strong action elements, i.e fighting enemies is a big part of the game.
Mario and DK are more momentum-based.
Different kind of focus on the "platforming", but that doesn't mean Mario is not precise. Mario games have precise as fuck controls.

>>2326282
Precise platforming: you need to have great timing to make a jump, lest you fall into a bottomless pit or some other hazard because the level is designed around making difficult, perilous jumps.

See this level for an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ixXun_jrXU

DKC2 is the second best platformer of all time.

Number 1?
Yoshi's Island


DKC1 is like an entertaining tech demo. not much nuance

>>2326441

Yeah, I still wouldn't compare Mario to Shinobi, very different kind of games.

Maybe if you want a hardass platformer in the Mario style, try Gimmick.

>>2326450

ur mum is like an entertaining tech demo m8

>>2326450
>WAHHH WAHHH WAHHH
>best platformer of all time

why do nintenyearolds have the worst taste ever?

>>2326456
>>2326460
Holy shit, /v/ please fuck off and stay go.

>>2326121
>KSS
oh fuck YES

>>2326462
>I can't handle the bantz

>>>/gamefaqs/

>>2326460

>getting hit

git gud

am I doing the /v/ banter thing OK?

>>2326014
DKC is mediocre as fuck gameplay wise. The sequels ARE a lot better than it, DKC2 and 3 and among my favorite platformers ever but I agree, DKC1 is far from impressive. Play 2 and you'll see just how much better it gets, the better characters, mechanics, levels and even collectathon elements make it an awesome game.

In order to feel "nostalgia" you need to have played this is a kid and associate it with some fuzzy nice feeling, don't expect that. If you want a good game play the sequels man.

>>2326081
>>2326078
also yamauchi was an evil yakuza from hell. dude never forgave gunpei yokoi for the virtual boy. and how was it that yokoi died, mm? oh yes, an accident, that's right. <3

>>2326474
>>2326460
>>2326456
I don't like DKC, but fuck off with this /v/ shit.

>>2326045
>>2326047
Yes, he did say that. The quote is from an interview Steven Kent did with Miyamoto and Tim Stamper.

inb4 that shitty ign article that doesn't even address the quote in question

I think the first one is the best of the series by far.

>>2326068
>>2326052
It's not a myth. It's something he said, probably in anger, possibly mistranslated, a long time ago. He may have changed his opinion, but no one has ever come out and said "that quote is factually incorrect and did not happen." It's referenced in The Ultimate History of Video Games and some Rare retrospective video.

>>2326534
>Rare retrospective video.
herp derp, it was a video about Donkey Kong's history, not Rare's

>>2326527

Who knows what the fuck Miyamoto actually said. The original article is from an old magazine, nobody has the scan of it, probably the translation was lousy, and it became more of an urban myth than anything else.

Most likely, he did say something regarding people paying more attention to graphics than to gameplay, I mean, it wouldn't be weird of him to make a statement like that. But shitting on DKC? Nah.

>>2326450
I agree those are the top two 2d platformers, but I'd switch them personally.

>>2326542
>The original article is from an old magazine, nobody has the scan of it, probably the translation was lousy, and it became more of an urban myth than anything else.

Steven Kent knows, because he was the one doing the interview, and he is the source of the quote. And he has told the story multiple times.

>>2326546

I would like to hear or read Miyamoto's words directly, in japanese.

>>2326549
I would too, but I think it's fair to say that if Kent was spreading complete bullshit, someone would have said "no, you can't print that" by now. It's fairly high profile.

>>2326527
>>2326542
>>2326534
>>2326546
He never said it, and has gone on to make sure people know he never said it. He was INVOLVED in development every day with Rare via email. I wish this fucking rumor would stop so people can look at the game for what it is as opposed to what they think someone important said.

>>2326559

Again, I'm sure miyamoto said something about players giving more attention to graphics than gameplay, but I doubt he directly said DKC's gameplay was mediocre.

Also, high profile or not, it's still journos, it's their job to exaggerate certain quotes by people, especially when they speak another language and they can take certain liberties when translating and interpretating.

>>2326527
I don't know about IGN but Miyamoto is aware that there are rumours he didn't like DKC and he says otherwise in this article:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2010/06/turns_out_shigeru_miyamoto_does_like_donkey_kong_country

>>2326450
>DKC2 is the second best platformer of all time.

Do you know how many platformers are out there? Have you played them all?

But then again, what do I know, I think Super Meat Boy is a great platformer and all of /v/ starts having a hissy fit.

>>2326587
Super Meat Boy is a great platformer and so is DKC2.

What all of /v/ and 90% of /vr/ fails to realize is that easy AND hard games are both capable of being great games.

>>2326450
Yoshi's island is fucking _awful_ from a platforming design standpoint
>awkward jump
>Baby floating around
>Randomly invisible red coins
>Power ups that do nothing, setpieces
>Awful boss fights aside from the last one
>No interaction with enemies aside from swallowing them
If they hadn't made the game as charming as they did it would be hated.

>>2327170
>awkward jump

Huh? you have a lot of control over the jump. You can make a quick, short jump by tapping the button, jump higher by pressing it, and flutter by pressing and holding.

>Baby floating around

git gud

>Randomly invisible red coins

git gud (or you can also use the "?" item to see them, if you aren't man enough)

>Power ups that do nothing, setpieces

Power ups are the transformation ones? They were gimmicky, but fun. the train is my favorite.

>Awful boss fights aside from the last one

Raphael the Raven would like a word with you.

>No interaction with enemies aside from swallowing them

Seriously? Bandits, baseball players, rats stealing your eggs, etc, etc. You can't say the enemies are all the same.

Have you actually played the game?

>>2327291
Damn, somebody pissed off the fanboy. I didn't know people still picked apart posts and attacked each line like that any more, here in the year 2015.

>>2327334
>pissed off

nah, I was just bored, I knew it was bait.

>>2327334
Your arguments just suck and you are a fag who wants to look interesting by bashing popular games.
nice bait btw.

>>2327349
not the same poster, but I'm getting real sick of this shit. I don't think DKC is a fun game, or even very well designed and fucking nintendo babies poop themselves and throw a fit because they don't agree.

You retards need to learn that just because someone doesn't like something popular they're not attacking it because of it's popularity, maybe they just don't like the game, shitstain.

>>2327334
>I have no arguments, so I'll just call you stupid.

>>2327380

When someone brings terrible, flawed arguements like the ones in >>2327170 attempting to show why it's "badly designed" instead of just saying "I don't like the game because I didn't think these parts were fun", it's a safe bet they're just casting some bait.

Though DKC hasn't aged well to me. I still play through it from time to time, but it never feels like more than a nostalgia trip through DKC2's Proof of Concept. Music's still boss, though.

Only DK game I've ever played is the one for the 64. Fun as shit.

Guy who called put Yoshi's island here.
Wow great responses guys! Le 'you look like a f*g and your sh*ts all r******d' meme! Excellent choice!!
:^]

This thread turned into shite pretty quickly. If you baited the thread, why did you?

Yoshi's Island is a mediocre platformer but a bad Mario game.

>there will never be a proper Mario World 2

>>2326014

DKC3 is close, but DKC2 should never be put in the same pedestal as DKC1.

>>2327380

>nintendo babies

careful there, man.

You might be too mature for this board.

>>2327380

I don't think people being defensive about DKC is a Nintendo specific thing. I think it's just that it so happens to be a Nintendo game.

>>2326014
DKC2 isn't substantially better than DKC1 and DKC3 is arguably the worst of the three.

They're good because they did a lot of things well. The gameplay and especially sense of control and momentum is fluid, the level design is great, the music is great, the visuals are actually pretty nice even to this day (considering it was 1994) and have definitely aged pretty well, much moreso than other games with the same style like Mortal Kombat. The game is also simplistic enough that it doesn't really overwhelm you with bullshit and instead just focuses on being a game. A person would be able to play from the start until the end comfortably without even speaking the language the game is in or having previous video gaming experience, yet it's not so easy that it's dull.

Basically it's good at a lot of things and can appeal to almost everyone in some way.

>>2327720
did you really take the time to make that? the guy isn't even bad looking.

>>2328753

He's fat and his face looks retarded. Might be just the photo though.

>>2328753
>>2328860
I think it's more the fact that he's 14

>>2328860
>>2329126

Wow, picking on a random chubby 14 year old.

/vr/ is hardcore man.

>>2326574
>The first point that I want to make is that I actually worked very closely with Rare on the original Donkey Kong Country. And apparently recently some rumour got out that I didn't really like that game? I just want to clarify that that's not the case, because I was very involved in that. And even emailing almost daily with Tim Stamper right up until the end.

This actually applies for damn near every game Nintendo outsourced before Wii. Nintendo was heavily involved in the creation of games like Metroid Prime, because they did not trust other developers with their intellectual property.

Just finished dkc3 a few minutes ago. Played em all as a kid, and replayed em in the past 2 weeks.
Lots of fun, though a bit easy. Each has his charm, and if I -had- to pick a favorite it'd be 2, but only by a small margin, because of the music
My favorite (not stickerbrush): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbreFmRDN3E#
And very memorable, that rush: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbreFmRDN3E#

>>2328753
>that guy isn't even bad looking

Are you 300 pounds?

Donkey Kong Country 2 is the greatest game ever made, it is literally flawless.

>>2329525
>it is literally flawless.
Needing coins to save is a flaw.

>>2329319
Sega trusted too much and look what we've got.

>>2326047
>and DKC2 is a better game than SMW anyway

I disagree. The controls in SMW is flawless as opposed to DKC2. SMW is a great platformer because one has full control of the character, so you are 100% to blame when you fuck up.

>>2329510
>Lots of fun, though a bit easy

If you play modern indie platformers, all old platformers become easy.

>>2329553
Besides the occasional co-op shooter I don't play that many games anymore.
I did play all 3 a lot as a kid, that might've helped a bit, but still, the "free continue" system with 2 monkeys makes the whole thing a bit easier.
But that made it also possible for my at the time 6 year old sister to enjoy the game. Not complaining, just an observation.
Did anyone try the DKC 3 hardcore mode by the way? I only just read about it, when checking if my 103% was the maximum.

>>2329532
your first save in a world is free aaaaaaa
i wish people would stop perpetuating this

>>2326040

I know this is off topic, but Donkey Kong is such a legitimately good game. Same with Wrecking Crew, and other early Nintendo arcade games.

A very long time ago, I used to work as a security guard in some backwoods middle-of-nowhere posting, and had a Mexican bootleg cart with DK, SMB1, Nuts and Milk, Pyramid, and a few other good titles. Those old games were deeper than we in our 2015 vidya thinking would give them credit for. I can't really count all of the hours I spent learning these games' meta on my own while stuck out there with nothing else to do.
/rant

>>2326014


Oh and I love DKC more than DK2 being the obviously better game on all levels just because I love DKC's level layout, music, and progression. However man. DK2 was great, too. Good platformers from a great era for platformers.

>>2329551
What makes SMW better in terms of character control? I personally enjoy both DK2 and SMW a lot and would be hard pressed to pick one over the other. Whenever I died in DK2 I felt it was pretty fair and because of my own error, even in the Squawks levels that annoyed my childhood self to no end. I feel the same way about SMW. Both were exceptionally good 2D platformers in my mind.

>>2329679
DKC2 is a great game, no doubt, but SMW has better controls in terms of accuracy. You don't get the sliding mechanic which is in DKC, and you can see on the pixel where you are standing and know when you must jump in order to not fall in the pit. DKC has more blurry lines in regards of that, which makes the controls less accurate and you feel like you have less control of the character.

>>2326014
obviously you won't understand the nostalgia if you didn't play it when it came out. that's what nostalgia means

>>2326014
the platforming is second to none.
earlier game that was able to implement 3d rendering.
the controls are buttery smooth and the difficulty is up there.

I think two has some of the best levels, and zones, takes you on a rollercoaster. where a lot of the 3rd are iffy, dark, or lacks character in some sense.

>>2329692
The jump in SMW is awkward, it's tricky to control mario in air because of the momentum. The flying mechanics are even worse, for different reasons.
As for the "see on the pixel where you are standing" part, this is just because the graphics in SMW are blocky and over simplistic. DKC has the cartwheel jump that makes avoiding falling into pits extremely easy and feels natural.

>>2329753

not sure what you're on about, the mechanics and graphics of SMW are perfectly fine. flying doesn't have any issues either, unless you couldn't figure it out.

>>2329753
>he graphics in SMW are blocky and over simplistic

The graphics are blocky indeed, but that makes for better controls because of the visible pixels and where platforms end. It is not as crucial as in for instance Mega Man where you often have to stand on the very last pixel in order to make the jump, but it is nevertheless important.

>>2326060
>Donkey Kong Country
>November 94 release date
>Saturn
>May 11th 1995 NA release

m8.

>>2329772

Yeah, nobody had a Saturn in 1994, unless you lived in Japan, and the selection of games available for it back then was really tiny. What would you play, some mahjong or baseball games?

>>2327380
He was talking about Yoshi's Island though.