/vr/ - Retro Games

Panzer Dragoon II is my favorite Saturn game.

You flashed that Action Replay with Pseudosaturn OP? I'm thinking of doing it myself, but I need to know if I can still use the 1MB-4MB RAM function if I do that.

Did they ever released games on cartridges?

>>2307327
No I havent
I have alot of saves I dont want to have to do again
And I play alot of fighters
>>2307328
No

>>2307398
Aah, based Studio Katsudon.

White Saturn Master Race

all other colors go home

>>2307465
My US model 2 Saturn has a lot more value full of nostalgia and playtime than your used saturn that you bought on recently online just because of retrofad collectorfag hype.

all colors are welcome, white-kun, let's not be racists.

>>2307479
It also has alot less games
1v1 me not online

>>2307491

model 2 are really easy to mod and also pseudosaturn now exists.

I'll fight you nigga, but I'd destroy you.

>>2307497
Hows it feel like
Being a nigger console

>>2307505

It's black, not brown.
In fact, your white saturn will probably end up yellow-ish/brown while my model 2 will always be that black sexy motherfucker it always was since I bought it in 1996.

>>2307506
Nah man, it gets the upper class treatment while yours looks like a VCR IN 2015
Great Nippon praise

I just beat Panzer Saga. What an incredible game, easily in my top 10 games of all time. Deserves the hype.

Also, the ending was an unexpected downer. I guess I'm a sucker for sad endings.

>>2307509

Didn't you notice the white Saturn is just like the US Model 2 but with weird kiddy colors?

>tfw cant find a saturn anywhere in ontario

>>2307514
Its like a big dreamcast and thats sexy
That had "kiddie" colors too I guess

>>2307519

Dreamcast didn't have a weird fucking fuchsia button right in the middle.
Same with start and L and R on the controller.

Recently thrifted a model 1 for cheap. Kind of happy about it.

Does anyone have any experience with the pseudosaturn mod for the action replay cartridges? Supposedly it allows you to run backup cd-s without swapping(have to do it once to mod you AR) or modding your saturn.

I would like to test some games on the actual hardware before paying ludicrous ebay prices for them.

Sega Saturn threads are best threads

Heres my current Saturn games
Any recommendations to get?

>>2307535
>Bulk Slash

mah nigga

Don't forget NiGHTS, Burning Rangers, the Panzer Dragoon games, Virtua Fighter 2, SEGA Rally, Guardian Heroes and Sokyugurentai!

I didn't know you could play Powerslave with the 3D Controller. It's pretty sweet.

Someone needs to update the SegaRetro wiki. I actually thought you could play Fighters Megamix with it too.

>>2307549
>I didn't know you could play Powerslave with the 3D Controller. It's pretty sweet.
You can?

>>2307538
I may be the minority here
Bit I dont like how Nights plays at all

>>2307497
>model 2 are really easy to mod and also pseudosaturn now exists.

All saturns are equally easy to mod if you know what you are doing.

also SD card loaders now exist, and they are model 1 only.

>>2307775
Don't like it or don't understand it? Because I can see how someone wouldn't understand it, it's pretty obtuse to begin with,

>>2307535
Get some more shmups and fighters. Cyberbots, Thunder Force V, Soukyugurentai, Cotton 2, Cotton Boomerang, Dead or Alive.

also, get Puyo Puyo Sun. Can't go wrong with that title.

>>2307775
You are not alone though. It's a good game, but all its content boil down to score attacking, and the score attack boils down to "make as many runs over a single course as you can instead of touching the finish line".

If it was combined with the unlockables of Xmas Nights, it would be much better.

>>2307784
>The price of Cotton Boomerang
>DOA Saturn has no Ayane
So gay
I will get cyberbots as Devilotte is the best

>>2307784
I will say Twinkle Star Sprites is the most unique shoot em up made and the most fun with friends
My favorite Shoot em up so far
The Sega Saturn version had the most features with a bonus disc for fan art and other stuff
Also if you like Sailor moon type stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU8Igc0vxMs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmvBS1U67ww

>>2307840
>That one case facing the other way
Worse than hitler

>>2307840
>all those awesome games and then Virtual Hydlide

>>2307861
It's the 3Free pack. It's a cardboard box that doesn't match any way you turn it.

>>2307874
I like Virtual Hydlide. A procedurally generated ARPG was pretty neat at the time

>>2307880
>Dungeons and Dragons
My nigga

>>2307881
Yeah I got that in '99 and it saw a LOT of play. My friends didn't like getting their shit stomped at XMvSF so it was basically the only multiplayer game.

>>2307514

>kiddy colors

>Let's just make up shit opinions! XD

Here's my modest collection. I only discovered the joys of Saturn quite recently (only been re-discovering collecting/retro gaming in general for only a year or two) so it's not much, but I try to pick up the ones that interest me the most.

Still a lot of good ones to consider, lots of good ones mentioned in this thread too.

>>2307398
Keio Flying Squadron had such cool designs. I wish the second game hadn't tanked, and the series would've continued.

I have a copy coming in the mail, should arrive either this week or next. Can't wait to play it again.

Maybe I should've bought the english version instead of the japanese, but I found a good deal on the latter.

>>2307398
>>2307431
>tfw Manabe has been making Dirty Pair doujinshi for like 30 years now

I wish he'd do a new manga.

>>2307926
>D&D Collection

Yes I jelly. How is it?

>own Sega Saturn in UK
>emigrate to Canada
>doesn't work on North American tellies

>>2307995
Last time I checked, he did like two in the past fifteen or so years, not counting re-releases of old books.

I liked it better when he could draw all body types though. Now he draws every women with amazon body types - big, muscular, huge tits, wide thighs, and too much detail.

His earlier books were so much fun... the ending in Outlanders was incredible.

>>2307995
>I wish he'd do a new manga.

He does, but it is all original porn manga.

>>2307997
It's pretty awesome, especially Shadow over Mystara. As you imagine it's hell of a fun co-op game with friends. I haven't played the arcade version but I read that it's a pretty good port.

Recently I got myself a SS Hori fighting stick too, even if it's a little worn out, it feels great playing games like that on it.

>>2308014
I dont have a Hori stick
But I do have a Virtua Stick
Has a Seimitsu LS 56 01 stick in it

>>2307531
>I would like to test some games
Riiiight. That's what you WANT to do, but once you start playing Radiant Silvergun and Psychic Killer Taroumaru without paying 800 dollars for both of them, you'll realize you don't need to buy the games.

Use this tutorial, while it's blurry, it gets the job done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DujYFV1t5zY&spfreload=10

If you have fast reaction time and do the swap method the first time, you may find yourself failing the swap method over and over. I actually had to do it slower than I was doing at first to successfully load the software.

It requires owning at least one official game, though. If you don't have one, get a cheapy.

>>2308058
Nice. The one I bought did came with an ASCII stick. It's awfully stiff. Then again, I bought it as junk, and it came fully boxed and complete, and it works too - just needed the connector cleaned a bit. A bit yellowed as well.

I want to put a proper seimitsu stick and some good buttons in it, maybe mod it to have both Saturn connector and a USB connector (I have a gamepad somewhere I don't use), and spray paint the entire thing black.

I wonder if it will be possible to set it up so the autofire works over USB as well, or if it will be possible at all to set it up to use both controller pcbs inside.

>>2308084
The problem with replacing the ASCII Stick is that the only way to access the screws is by tearing off the top art as its glued to the metal
The buttons are also hardwired onto the pcb itself

>>2308079
So is the modchip kill?

This looks easier to do, but can you even buy chips anymore?

>>2308163
I havent been able to find any chips in ages
This definately seems easier
But AR carts are still not cheap

>>2308094
That's why I want to spray paint the entire case black, because I already tore off the artwork. I might put something new in there, but I'm too lazy to design anything, so I'll just spray paint it.

And yeah, I know that I have to solder the buttons in place, and possibly break off parts of the pcb so the buttons fit.

>>2308163
Modchip is still better IMO. Pseudo requires the cart slot (so it may not work due to the slot being dodgy, and you can't use other carts), and it does not work 100% with all games though it works with most.

Modchip works with all games, leaves all slots free. And they are easier to get if you look around.

Best choice is SD Loader though.

>>2308301
I love the original retro art on it too much to tear it off

>>2308310
Thanks for the proper scan. I tried scanning mine but it was already damaged, even before I disassembled it. Could've fixed it possibly but I'm too lazy for that.

>>2308274
I'd say using Action Replay is the easiest choice. Cost me about ~20 €, plug it in, region-free right there. Of course 50/60 hz switches are a different ballgame, but for ease of importing, I'd still say AR 4in1 is the best choice.

>>2308315
AR can't save directly, can corrupt itself, requires the cart slot so might not even work all the time, and requires you to go through a menu at every boot.

Modchip is pop the game in -> play. Yeah, you may need to prepare your burned games by region patching them, but that's a small issue. Cheating and the 4mb expansion are its best functions in my opinion.

Best option either way is Rhea + memory cart though.

>>2308163
Unless you want to play a burned version of Panzer Dragoon Saga or other multiple disc games (I think there are very few if any others), this is much easier and works fine in replacement of a modchip for cheaper.

>>2308323
The only real issue you mentioned is the save function. While it is a standing issue, the creators of pseudosaturn are working on restoring the backup functionality of the AR.

>>2308306
>easier to get if you look around
what does that even mean

>>2308332
Panzer Dragoon Saga allows you to save at the end of a disc. I think the game resets anyway if you remove the disc at the end, you'll have to boot anew and continue from your save.

>>2308339
>the creators of pseudosaturn are working on restoring the backup functionality of the AR.

That still won't allow you to save directly from a game, which some games require for extra stuff (ghost car data in racing games, fight recordings in Vipers, anything in Dezaemon 2).

And it may still corrupt the entire cart, for the same reason that ARs kill themselves: savegames and the firmware are both in the same flash rom. If the cart slot craps out when you are writing data, you can end up destroying the firmware.

This is all assuming that they'll actually get pseudosaturn to save games. The Saturn community is not exactly well known for finishing projects.

>>2307926
>not much
>metal slug and nocturne in the moonlight
Even though mine's modded, I'm jealous.

>>2308354
Well quantity-wise it's still a small collection, but I try to strive for quality.

When I started collecting, I used to buy all kinds of games (especially for the NES) that I never got around playing, or they were "must have classics" that just didn't interest me, so I sold a lot of stuff I rarely even touched after buying.

For Saturn I decided I'll buy maybe a bit more expensive stuff I really want instead a bit of everything. Next I'll probably get a shmup or two and maybe a Panzer Dragoon game.

>>2308364
Get bulk slash man

>>2307317
I plan on picking up a Saturn for Nights, but what exactly is the cartridge port for?
Saturn games or?

>>2308469
save game carts, memory expansion carts, cheat carts, ROM carts (for two games), development carts.

>>2308475
Ah, alrighty cool. Thanks for the quick answer.

>>2308469
It SHOULD have been for Genesis games
That would be the bomb
Like a Mega Neptune

>>2308487
It was never meant to be for that. The Megadrive was an absolute bomb in Japan, and SOJ wanted nothing to do with it. They just wanted a cart port that would allow the system to be more easy to expand in the future (the Megadrive was not).

>>2308487
I thought it was for genesis games but had no idea, so i asked.
Would've been pretty kickass.

Everyone should get Cyberbots

Do-hohoho!

>>2308504
And also someone should translate the extra story modes in the Saturn version. Some scenes are hilarious. Devilotte handles negotiations naked in the bathtub for example.

>>2308495
>the Megadrive was not
Except for that fucking huge port on the side that is a direct connection to the CPU bus. But of course add-ons that expanded the Megadrive's capabilities were never made.

>>2308509
I would too if I was a cute blonde devil loli
Not even joking

>>2308516
>Except for that fucking huge port on the side that is a direct connection to the CPU bus.

That was an I/o port. It did not expose any interrupts. It was completely useless for anything but bulk data transfers and external audio input.

I'm not digging out my 3D pad just for a picture.

>>2308562
WELL I AM


Glorious 60fps

>>2307606
Damn right, you set the analog switch and while the menus are still exclusively controlled with the D-pad for some reason, you can move with the analog stick and strafe with the triggers.

Hell you can even remap the keys so that you strafe with the buttons and shoot with the triggers. Though I find it kinda weird you can't strafe with the D-pad at all, not even without the analog controls.

>>2307518

I got a Model 2 for $75 a few months ago but it came with a Model 1 controller :/

>>2308872
And you can get Japanese controllers easily on ebay.

>>2308913

With the Canadian dollar so low and shipping to CA always higher than the US it would cost me around $30 for a controller.

>>2308567
oh man I was so excited for the 3ds release I downloaded it on my work's wifi during lunch and got a couple rounds in. So glad they brought it to the u.s. finally

>>2307535
>Radiant Silvergun
>Dodonpachi
>SF Zero 3
Im already mad jelly
Thats a great collection

>>2308927

Zero 3 is rare? I got one a few months ago for 15 bucks.

>>2308936
Its not rare
But highly desireable and pricey

>>2308936

>>2308950

Woah, I feel really lucky now.
Then again, my copy doesn't include the obi strip.

Still kind of shitty to see games that aren't actually rare go that much up in price. Fucking reseller scum, man.

>>2308927
Does Zero 3 have any extras the Dreamcast version lacks?

>>2309031
arcade-accurate hitboxes.

>>2309031
Beleive it or not thanks the 4mb ram expansion
Adds more frames even the Dreamcast is missing
Voice clips
More modes
And gameplay is alot more arcade accurate

>>2307535
Wow nice collection.
Selling my Saturn was one of the biggest gaming regrets of my life (right after selling my Sega with Snatcher, never again)
and I see you're using the reversible cover art for SK:SV, good man

Are there any games for the saturn with two player co op

>>2309587
Katsuragi is the best

>>2308916
I assume you checked CL, if not Kijiji as well?
I can easily find jap Saturn games because Vancouver has a shitload of jap immigrants

>>2308567
is saturn outrun a good port?

>>2309606
Its the best/second best port and has optional arranged music no other port has and was the first to be 60fps with the secret options menu

I say might be second best because while the 3ds is technically the best version with fixed music all ports had minor problems with and 5 new car options and new songs
But at the same time it doesnt feel the same as playing on the big screen

>>2309596

Nah, there's nothing there. My local retro store has some stuff but only third-party controllers and pricey games like Burning Rangers and Saga.

For some reason I can't get the idea of buying a saturn out of my head, even though I have no clue what I'd play on it. I've read that model 2 is easier to modchip. Is that true?

>>2311085
>I've read that model 2 is easier to modchip. Is that true?

No.

>>2311089
It appears I have been misled by Racketboy. Care to offer any input on what the simplest method available today is?

>>2311103
Rhea.

Racketboy chips are shit. Model 2s were "easier to mod" with those because the chips fucking sucked.

>>2311118
Do you own a Rhea? Different anon.

>>2311103
>Care to offer any input on what the simplest method available today is?

pseudosaturn, you just need an action replay cart. No chip needed.

>>2309589
Die Hard Arcade, Guardian Heroes, In The Hunt, and maybe Bomberman.

>>2311129
Yes. It rocks.

>>2311135
Not as simple. You need an action replay, an original disc, you have to do the swap trick (harder to do with the AR inside), and that is all assuming that the cart port works.

>>2311149
>Yes. It rocks.
What's the easiest way to convert bin cue to cdi?

>>2311149
>harder to do with the AR inside

why?

It's still simpler than soldering a chip into the PCB, though.

>>2311118
>130 euroland funbucks

And I thought the asking price for GDEmu was absurd. I appreciate your suggestion, and this would be ideal in the long term, but I'm not sure I can spring that much at the moment.

>>2311151
mount and rerip.

>>2311153
>why?

AR boot menu needs tighter timing for some reason, you have to do it faster. Doing it faster = slamming the disc in = damaging the motor.

>It's still simpler than soldering a chip into the PCB, though.

This claim is so stupid that I can't even think up of any creative way to call you stupid.

>>2311178
>mount and rerip.
I've never done this stuff with virtual drives an what not.
From reading the comments it seems I need deamontools lite and some other program?

And I can convert any format to cdi right? Like mdf mds?

>>2311190
Yes.

>>2311205
What are people talking about when they say you need certain settings? Is that universal for Saturn?

Is daemon tools lite 5 the best or do I need an older version?

Any other needed software?

>>2311215
>What are people talking about when they say you need certain settings?

Rhea requires proper subcodes in the image, bincue has no subcodes at all. When reripping, you need to enable subcode ripping.

>Is daemon tools lite 5 the best or do I need an older version?

Try it, if it doesn't work, try an older one.

>>2311225
And what about a virtual drive? Is that not needed?

>>2311178

Well, but the disc swap needs to be done only once.
Still not sure if the AR boot menu needs tighter timing "for some reason". Any source?

>This claim is so stupid that I can't even think up of any creative way to call you stupid.

Why the hostility?

>>2311235
>And what about a virtual drive? Is that not needed?

... I think you are better off just buying originals. You won't need anything for those, just put the disc in and play.

>>2311247
Sorry I'm not up on how to work proprietary software like daemon tools...

>>2311242
>Well, but the disc swap needs to be done only once.

Assuming the cart port even works.

>Still not sure if the AR boot menu needs tighter timing "for some reason". Any source?

You can try it for yourself. The AR menu waits much less before returning to the cd player on a read error. Dunno why it does it, but the last time I tried disc swapping, that's how it worked.

>>2311253
Why can't you just look it up then, like any normal person would?

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_Tools

>>2311254

Okay, but why did you call me stupid when I said it's simpler than soldering a chip?
I don't really know that much about modchips, but I assume you have to open up the Saturn and solder the chip into the PCB? If I'm mistaken then yeah I was stupid for assuming so.

>>2311259
So I need to buy the $70 version or find a virtual drive. So what has bet compatibility with it?

>>2311273
there's two solder points
one to 5V pin (can't remember if it's + or -) and the other is on the back of the board to denote what CD drive you're running. Then you just plug in the cable from the modchip to the cd drive and to the motherboard. It's super simple.

>>2311282

But you still have to open up the Saturn and solder shit in it. It's not "super" simple.

>>2311292
But soldering IS simple. You just twist the copper end of the cable, put a bit of flux on it, then put a little solder blob on the soldering iron, hold the cable to wherever you want to solder it, and touch the connection with the iron. The solder flows from the soldering iron to the cable, and you are done.

It takes longer to physically get the soldering iron out from the drawer, than it is to solder the two cable ends.

>>2311273
Latest Rhea boards are solderless, they are direct drive replacements, including using the same drive connector.

>>2311313
>>2311273

I'm actually a little worried about the long term stability of the PSU with the Rhea. The Rhea draws like 250-500ma.

I was already in the process of making an external PSU so it doesn't matter to me. Something to think about though.

>>2311282
Wait a minute? That's it? Well shit on a shingle, I could learn to solder if the final project is that easy.

Recommended modchip?

>>2311292
this is literally the stupidest thing I've read all day
>>2311329
avoid racketboy, his chips are overpriced to hell and back. I recommend either segastyle's webstore or checking on theisozone's forums for a seller, whichever is cheaper

>>2311319
PSU's are typically designed for a good amount of tolerance on the amp draw. In the case of the Rhea, I would imagine it draws much less, since there's no moving parts (the laser sled and the main spindle motor) to draw more current

>>2311410

>this is literally the stupidest thing I've read all day

I'm not saying that opening it up and solder it is not simple. It's just not simpler than just doing the pseudosaturn disc swap with the AR. Arguing that soldering a modchip to your Saturn's PCB is simpler than doing the disc swap is rather stupid, actually.

However, if this is true: >>2311313 then cool

>>2311441
>soldering a modchip to the Saturn PCB
what planet do you live on? who the hell said anything about soldering shit to the motherboard?

>>2311441

okay nigga, to the disc drive. You still have to solder shit in that's what matters, come on.
Been doing a PAL to NTSC conversion on a Megadrive today so I'm still thinking about soldering PBCs.

>>2311414
>I would imagine it draws much less, since there's no moving parts (the laser sled and the main spindle motor) to draw more current
You'd be right but you're missing something. The Rhea gets its power form the 5v output. The CD motor gets its power from the 9v output.

The 5v is the main amp draw of the Saturn and with the Rhea you're adding more.

It's probably fine but we're dealing with a 20 year old PSU here.

>>2311450
oh shit, I forgot about the 9V rail.
You're still probably in the clear (worst case, you blow a fuse on the PSU). If it's such a worry, there's probably a 9V to 5V DC-DC converter floating around somewhere on digikey or something.

>>2311453
Ya I don't think the Saturn would be damaged. I think it would just shut off.

>>2311459
if you do a google search on the voltage regulators on the PSU, you'll probably come across datasheets that list the amps that the voltage regulators can output before cooking themselves.
an example that I searched for would be one of the NEC voltage regulators on the neo geo CD, which has a range of 3 to 32 amps. I'd imagine the Saturn PSU volt regulators having a similar range.

>>2311464
Schematics usually don't show the amp draw though. And I'm not knowledgeable enough to do an accurate calculation. The Saturn PSU isn't using a simple voltage regulator like a 7805. It's a switch mode psu.

My plan is to wire up 3 power supplies with a common ground(return) and have the Saturn's power switch connected to the ground. Should work and be far more reliable than the original. They'll be external so a lot less heat inside the Saturn and the added space will allow me to more easily do a cap replacement.

>>2311475
not a schematic, a datasheet
here's an example voltage regulator (not relevant to any console though)
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/6786/NEC/UPC7812AHF.html
they're issued by component manufacturers for people to view the specs of the component in question (such as current limit, internal resistance, etc)

>>2311485
The Saturn is using a custom switch mode psu though. Don't think there's a datasheet for it? At least publicly available.

Not sure it would tell you what the Saturn should be eating up amp wise either. It would just tell the amp range the PSU could output wouldn't it?

This is interesting stuff though. You wouldn't happen to have the datasheet would you?

>>2311497
unfortunately not, you'd have to look up the component's of the PSU (not the PSU itself) individually and figure out what the limit is total. /diy/ could help with that (they have an electronics diy thread), alternatively ask people in the repair thread here on /vr/

>>2311501
We could assume the amps printed on the PSU are what it's rated for I guess. Would make sense.

>>2311504
that's what Sega designed it for, however the PSU can probably be pushed higher without damage if the components were designed for a higher amp range

>>2311307
That's so not "simple" to you average person, not to mention you'd have to get soldering equipment as well.

>>2307317
Here's a good article about the Saturn and how its blundered U.S. release cost it a place in the American market. Out of 600 Saturn titles (twice as many as the N64) less than half of them saw the light of day in the USA due to the lack of a customer base.

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/the-lost-child-of-a-house-divided-a-sega-saturn-retrospective

Eventually I'm getting a Saturn specifically to play this game which was advertised heavily to me in my video game mag of choice back in the nineties. The vibrant colors and excellent 2-D graphics always drew me in, but I didn't have a Saturn.

>>2307479
model 1's look better aesthetically although they play the same. they made the model 2 cheaper to save money because they kept having to drop the price tag to match Sony and Nintendo.

https://youtu.be/DJXTQINpDDs

>>2311643

Model 1 are like grey japanese Saturn
Model 2 are like white japanese Saturn

except both are black

I also like model 2's controller better, but model 1's not bad either.

>>2311646
Yeah, that's true. I think the shiny panel and lights on the model 1s look better.

>>2311450
>The CD motor gets its power from the 9v output.

I've just checked the part lists and both the CPUs and the motors use 5v parts. I'm not sure what exactly even uses the 9v part on the Saturn cd drive, I'd need to check it with a multimeter.

i wish i could go back in time and not buy a saturn all over again

>>2308306
They are not easy to get there's only one British guy who has them who doesn't take paypal

>>2311898
If you mean consolegoods, last time I checked the guy sells the chips normally and takes paypal gift payments, he just had to remove them from his site due to paypal policies.

You can also get modchips from assemblergames forums.

Dare I, or should I wait?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/sega-saturn-black-console-model-MK-80000-working-/381202408252?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c16f233c

Have you seen this? Saturn version of Shenmue. This is what might have been if devs had been better able to program for the system, if the system had lasted longer. The 3D capabilities were there, just not taken advantage of. To me this looks better than PS and N64.

https://youtu.be/foZUcPQAMvg

So how exactly do the modchips work? Regionfree + CDR backups, or only allowing CDR backups but you patch the region to play them on a different region model?

>>2312113
It's crazy how great this looks. I'd kill for it to leak.

>>2312115
Can you imagine if they had been making games for it looking like this in 1997? People would have bought Saturns to jump on the superior graphics train even if they had the other systems already.

>>2307317
Sega Saturn, in my opinion, should have gone with one ARM CPU or at least the NEC V60 rather than 2 of whatever it used. Also, most western developers were too hooked on triangle-based Dev kits.

>>2312113
>>2312115
>>2312119
This is the holy grail of unreleased games to me. This and AM2's Virtua Fighter 3 Saturn port.

>>2312125
Yeah, articles talk about how good PS 3D looked at the time, which supposedly hurt the Saturn, but the PS 3D is so messed up in retrospect. With flickering, shifting polygons, seeing the lines in polygons, seeing through them. Few devs even got the 3D truly right with the PS no matter how easy they say it was to develop for. If they had been making games looking like the Shenmue Saturn demo the PS would have looked like droopy eyed armless children.

I want to eat this game like a bag of Skittles. The 2D on the Saturn was so completely out of the PS and especially the N64's league. I loved 2D in the 90s when the 3D craze was supposedly happening. I loved a good 3D game, but that did not make a beautiful 2D game any less appealing. Of course when I made my system choice in the early days I went with an N64 for Mario 64, but later I was more into RPGs and classic retro 2D RPGs were like crack to me.

>>2311789
okay nevermind, the motor driver IC uses the 9v pin as gain. Possibly some other stuff uses it too, but I stopped checking there.

>>2312113
That video is very misleading. It has almost no gameplay, and it runs at like 5-10fps at the worst cases (ie. whenever more than 1 characters are on screen).
Still impressive, but not really better than Playstation/N64.

>>2312124
They went with a NEC V60 at first, and threw it out because it wasn't fast enough. The twin SH2 was a good choice, especially since they most likely got bulk rates from Hitachi as they supplied like half of the system already.

The real problem was that the graphics chip was extremely slow and ugly.

And yeah, developers expecting porting to be a fast job of recompiling the code, that was a major issue as well.

So I got the Japanese version of Last Bronx today. and the internet says the way to unlock the boss is too see all the character introductions in the Special Disc. I did this and they didn't show up in the introduction mode. Was it the wrong information? (Also i'm not sure if it's supposed to reset back to the title after each introduction or not)

>>2311118
I've had a chip from Racketboy in my Saturn for two years and it's worked fine. Why do you say it's shit?

>>2313012
Only works with select models, lacks the components that would make it compatible with some models, in order to make production cheaper (you can even see their location on the board), paper thin pcb that can break during installation, overpriced.

It is the least compatible, least reliable, and most expensive Saturn chip on the market.

>>2312114
Just CDR backups. You can get an Action Replay to bypass the region lock

>>2313042
But you can just patch the region if you can use backups, right? I'd rather have a burned collection and play more games.

>>2313060
That is correct, you can patch out the protection from the discs - or rather, change them to match your console.

>>2307538
Bulk Slash is truly one of the best reasons to own a Saturn.
Solid framerate, wild neon look, awesome soundtrack. Gigantic bosses. Controls very well. Has cute girls and robots.

it's pretty much an unofficial sequel to Ranger-X on the Genesis, but even better

shame it's a bit expensive (isn't it like $70 nowadays?)

>>2312127
Saturn 3D had similar issues though (one particular example for me is Sonic Team's Saturn games, which are absolutely full of polygon breakup and give off a sense that everything is falling apart at the seams). Very few games really look particularly "solid" (like Bulk Slash). It's often nicer than the PS1 because there's far fewer texture warping issues, but Saturn games as a rule seem to run at a lower framerate than on the PS1 as well.

and hell, the Shenmue Saturn demo drops to single digits.
it is pretty damn impressive, but far, far too ambitious for the machine

>>2312119
that's true of late-release games for just about every system

>>2312203
man, why is the VDP1 so retarded (it's a Super Scaler chip that can now stretch all four points of a sprite, even though Sega worked with triangle based hardware in all of their other polygonal 3D endeavors)
like, by 1994, no one even really considered quads, triangles were the standard and were overall more flexible

it's easily the worst bit of the Saturn's design

the VDP2 is awesome as fuck though and can be leveraged for awesome special effects and big-ass Mode 7 style infinite planes, it's one of the reasons Bulk Slash can look so nice (since it doesn't use any quads for the floor, it can place them on more objects)

>>2313128
>even though Sega worked with triangle based hardware in all of their other polygonal 3D endeavors)

Nah, they didn't. That was Lockheed Martin who did all of those. Sega only wrote software for that. Their own engineers peaked at the super scaler type stuff, the zenith of that tech was their H1 hardware that ran Cool Riders. It looks like Cruis'n USA with sprites, simpler landscape, but running at 60fps (Cruisn only run at 20 or so).

>like, by 1994, no one even really considered quads, triangles were the standard and were overall more flexible

Saturn VDP1/2 was mostly finished by 1993, only the main cpu of the machine was changed.
They tried improving the VDP1 in the last minute, with minor stuff like the high-speed-shrink mode (vdp only sampled every odd texture pixel when shrinking) and texture end codes (vdp stops rendering the given line of a texture if it encounters one, obviously this only works with quads).

At the time it wasn't set in stone that triangles were better (especially for low-end game systems), and quads had some advantages for them. The VDP1 design made sense for the time, as it could do everything with sprites, which were the de facto objects for the time.

What made it a very bad choice is that the market went through a graphics revolution right in that generation, and that the VDP1 lacked too many things to be prepared for that (important things like FILLRATE).

>>2313128
>shame it's a bit expensive (isn't it like $70 nowadays?)

Starts at 100$ in good condition. Complete copies can get higher.

>>2313070
That's as good as region free to me then. Seems better to just spend the time to patch them rather than buy a AR cart and physical copies of all the games.

>>2313159
Cool Riders runs at 30fps and Crusin USA runs at 60 in the arcade (N64 port is hilariously bad with slowdown though).
weird game too, weird System 32+more board, seems to have lifted a gigantic amount of code directly from Outrunners

that being said, I guess what you say makes sense regarding the VDP1 design
would have been nice if Sega provided proper tools for Saturn development though (have you ever seen what Sega provided? fucking awful)

>>2313178
>Crusin USA runs at 60

It's been nearly 20 years since I last played it in the arcade, but when I last played it in MAME it ran at 20fps in-game - Cruis'n World ran at 30fps.

Dunno about cool riders, only watched a video, and it had such a ridiculous amount of graphics moving around that at 30fps it would be difficult to follow. I assumed it ran at 60 because it wasn't that much cutting-edge and they can bruteforce things like fillrate on an arcade board.

>>2313178
>would have been nice if Sega provided proper tools for Saturn development though (have you ever seen what Sega provided? fucking awful)

In their defense, the first Saturn silicon came out in late spring/early summer 1994, the system was set to launch in November, they only had a few months to start cranking out test codes for an entirely new architecture, the hardware got some revisions while they were doing so, and coding 3d was completely new to almost everyone working in the industry.

Don't die!

>>2313317

It doesn't help when you take a basic tennant like "In this industry, we represent things with triangles. Thousands and millions of haaaaaapy little triangles!" and instead you respond "NO. FUCK YOUR TRIANGLES. I WILL USE QUADS AND YOU WILL EAT THOSE QUADS FOR DINNER AND LIKE IT , SHITHEAD."

>>2312139
>I want to eat this game like a bag of Skittles.

I thought I was the only one that had a sort of fetish fantasizing about eating video games graphics.
I often start imagining different textures and flavors in my mouth when I see different games, both 2D and 3D.

Glad I'm not the only weirdo.

>>2315681
There wasn't much of a 3d industry back in 1993-94, not on the consumer level. Doom was about the most impressive 3d game on the market at the time, not counting arcades which used space age tech compared to what home consoles had, up until the late 90s.

>>2315681
Nvidia's first graphics chip, the NV1 also used quads.

>>2315697
>Glad I'm not the only weirdo.
You may not be the only weirdo, but you definitely a weirdo.
We still love you though.

>>2315681
Wow, that's one of the most retarded comments I've ever read on this board.

Any good snk games with Mai in it?

>>2316237
There's a bunch of KoF games on it and a couple of Fatal Fury games IIRC.

Never played a Saturn, so I'm looking into buying one. Any advice on what I should be looking for?

I seriously doubt I'll get lucky at a thrift store or something in the states, so I'm just looking on ebay. Individual controllers look expensive so I assume I'll want to buy a bundle.

>>2318057
>Any advice on what I should be looking for?
That depends on where in the world you live, what kind of games you like, if you plan to pirate or not, and whether you can read Japanese.

>>2318096
I'm in NYC and can't read Japanese. I'm assuming pirating involves a mod chip, which are usually pretty cheap(?), so I'm open to starting out with that.

Mainly just wondering if there's any reason to get a Model 1 over 2, Japanese over English, 3D pad over 2D, etc. or just whatever's cheapest. I know there are cartridges with different capabilities as well, but I don't know how essential those are.

>>2318117
You can get a mod chip, but there has been a recent romflash for the Pro Action Replay expansion cartridge (that originally allowed for region-free playing, among other things) that allows you to play copies without a hardwired mod chip, admittedly at the expense of other features of the cartridge. I personally don't have one and haven't tried it, but it seems to be a popular topic of discussion with Saturn owners on /vr/.

I believe there is also a video issue with some US and PAL (not that you care about PAL, I assume) Model 2s.

If you are getting a Pro Action Replay, flashed or not, then it shouldn't matter if you get a US or Japanese console; it's mostly a matter of aesthetics. Some people like the Black US, some the White Japanese (a lot of them are faded now, and they usually go for a bit more money because white is cool); it's mostly a personal choice.

The US Model 1 controllers with the hard edges get a lot of complaints about being uncomfortable (with the occasional weirdo who actually likes them). The US Model 2 controller with round edges, which I'm pretty sure is the same molding as the original Japanese controller but don't quote me on that, gets a lot of praise. The 3D controller is nice too, but not absolutely necessary even for 3D games.

>>2318147
>The 3D controller is nice too, but not absolutely necessary even for 3D games.
It's really handy for quite a few games, and it's one of the peripherals I highly recommend if you're getting a Saturn. It feels like a Dreamcast controller would, if it had been designed by someone smart. The analog stick is great, and you can even use it on any game in D-pad mode, which I do most of the time instead of getting out my model 2 pads.

3d pad is pretty meh to be honest. It's as big as the xbox duke, and the analog pad has little range and isn't really a stick. Also, it has compatibility problems in a select few games, and the analog pad is little supported and even when they do they never add anything special. You can change your walking speed in panzer dragoon saga, woo fucking hoo.

Nights is the only game where it supposedly counts, but I've never noticed any improvements since it's a strictly 2d game and I play it as if I would play an arcade game (ie. frequent minor up/down motions for finer turns). Plus the game has the character physically turning around instead of instantly pointing to whatever direction you turn into, so I can't really make any finer turns with analog pads anyway.

>>2318147
>I believe there is also a video issue with some US and PAL (not that you care about PAL, I assume) Model 2s.

It affects jpn models too, so pretty much everything.
and last time I checked the problem wasn't there on CRTs.

>>2318208
I'd be using it on an rgb monitor, and retrorgb does recommend the model 1 for video quality.
sounds like a model 1 console with model 2 controllers is the option to look out for

>>2316237

Real Bout Special

My Saturn has a non-invasive region-free mod. The guy I take my consoles to is a really old dude that worked as an official TecToy tech support back in the '90s.

I don't know how it works, but he made my Model Japanese Gray Saturn boot in English, while still displaying the Japanese splash logo. On the first boot it runs USA/Brazil region games, and holding the reset button down for 1 second reboots it in a region-free mode that runs EU and JPN games. There are no switches, just holding down reset.

Anyone else heard of a mod like this? I never found information about it online.

>>2318217
>and retrorgb does recommend the model 1 for video quality.

That article points out things like 1% worse contrast, and it doesn't mention which motherboard it tested. There are multiple different motherboards, some are great, others less so. So you can't just say model 1 or 2, because you have model 1 boards which were packaged AS-IS in model 2 cases, etc.

Model 1 is better anyway because you can put Rhea in those, provided your machine is early enough to use the 20pin drive.

>>2318249
It's called switchless mod.

Region free bios is better.

>>2318263
I've never really understood the point of switchless mods. Is taking out an RF port or drilling a small hole really going to bother you at all? I'd rather have the much simpler system that doesn't require fiddling about with holding down reset and remembering what each flashing light means for each console you own.

All this Black, white, or grey color talk

When people forget the Saturn Skeleton edition exist and is clearly the coolest
It says so on the console!

>>2318313
This controller is cool too

>>2318320
Ouch, you can see those massive button plinths through the front. The Saturn was one of the ugliest looking consoles inside, while the Dreamcast was adorable because of all the shielding.

>>2318280
It appeals to casuals. I always find it hilarious when they ask for help because the reset button stopped switching and the console is locked in one random mode - the chips they use for the switchless mods aren't the most reliable.

> Is taking out an RF port or drilling a small hole really going to bother you at all?

Saturn doesn't have a RF port, and you can put the switch next to the battery so the outer shell is not damaged AT ALL. I dislike drilling a full hole because then the switch pokes out of the machine, but for the Saturn that's not a problem.

>I'd rather have the much simpler system that doesn't require fiddling about with holding down reset and remembering what each flashing light means for each console you own.

That's why I said the region free bios is better. Switchless, doesn't require pressing anything, and if you want a, say, hi-Saturn bootup, you can just install that.

>>2318313
>>2318320
>This is cool
Thanks console, I was having trouble deciding for myself.

>>2311254
You're supposed to put the AR cart in AFTER you boot up Atlas.
As long you don't use maximum sperg strength, you're not going to damage the Saturn's drive, either.

>>2311598
Storywise, Magic Knight Rayearth was as generic as it gets. The gameplay, the colors, and the art are great, though.

Reading the diaries from the 3 main heroines and how they differently perceive the story from their own perspective was also really neat.

Umi best girl.

>>2318534
>You're supposed to put the AR cart in AFTER you boot up Atlas.

I was unaware that the carts can be safely hot swapped. Do you have any info on where it is stated that this can be safely done?

As far as I know, you are not meant to pull carts out or put them in once the console has been powered on.

>>2318661
It's not going to break if you do it once. As long as you aren't tilting the card around, it's very hard to break anything.

>>2318661

Yeah, don't want to do it too much though. Every time I insert or remove my AR there's about a 10% chance it erases itself, but I can use it to start a JP game then swap them to save on the real cart.

Reposting.

>>2318762
I'm not talking about breaking, I'm talking about removing an electronic device while it is being powered on. As far as I know, that's something that should not be done, because it can damage the internal components.

Really, I'm amazed that there's someone on /vr/ actually suggesting yanking out carts while the system is on.

Hey.

Just fyi saturnbro's, a suggestion for any valuable NA saturn games. Ive been sticking a piece of thin cardboard or posterboard behind the manuals for years. Not too tight, don't want to break case's little plastic tabs, just enough to keep the manual held in place evenly.

It keeps the them from bending and warping over time which they are very prone to do.
You can sort of see in the pic here the copy of Wipeout here doesn't have any backing and is starting to bend. Even some manuals that had warped a little were straightened back out some doing this for years on end. Just a suggestion, works for me.

>>2319062
Oh yeah, I forgot about all those electronics that just died when you turned off the power switch without warning them first.

What can damage components is if you're stupid and tilt the cartridge to the side, bridging contacts. And that's only on poorly designed slots, on many it's impossible to damage something that way unless you jam a fork across half a dozen contacts or something.

>>2318829
Gorgeous, isn't it? I have the same one.

>>2319071
I've got that one because, hilariously, it wound up cheaper to import it from Japan than buy the dull black one. Came in practically mint condition, some minor surface scratches.

>>2319070
>Oh yeah, I forgot about all those electronics that just died when you turned off the power switch without warning them first.

Power off != hot swapping. When you power off, the entire system - and the power supply - loses power. When you yank the cart out, the rest of the system is still on, and this can create feedback.

>And that's only on poorly designed slots,

You mean like the Saturns, known for having one of the worst designed cart slots in console gaming history?

>>2316237
real bout fatal fury special

great game

>>2318335
man, it's amazing how nice the DC's internals are laid out

>>2318147
US Model 1 controllers are fairly nice, except for the fact that the d-pad is massively worse than the JP/US Model 2 one. I like playing Virtual On with mine (but switch to the Model 2 controller for everything else)

>>2313162
you better snatch up that copy on Amazon then, it's like $80 after shipping

actually, Amazon has pretty great deals sometimes (got Keio Yugekitai for $35+shipping along with a few other games in that order several years ago), it's going for like $70 there now (eBay has the game for like, $90+, fucking wow -- now I'm thinking of selling it, I haven't played it in forever).

>>2318335
>The Saturn was one of the ugliest looking consoles inside, while the Dreamcast was adorable because of all the shielding.
It's so easy to work on though. I love how the Saturn was designed. The DC on the other hand not so much.

>>2319114
When I got this game (which im loving)
My friend instantly said why would you get this, its awful
Especially after playing mark of the wolves
I didnt know why he made a connection that made no sense

>>2319197
If you plan on selling it Ide love to have it

>>2319269
I've seen people confuse garou mow with garou densetsu before, which was the original Fatal Fury 1.
Maybe that's what he was getting at.

>>2319205
>It's so easy to work on though
Are you kidding? Those ribbon cables are a massive hassle, getting to the motherboard is probably one of the most annoying things to do. I haven't opened up a PS1 or N64, but pretty much everything before and after is a million miles easier to work on. With the Saturn, I was constantly worried about breaking something.

>>2319064
that's a pretty sweet collection anon.

>>2322576
ill leave this here

>tfw got Pseudosaturn to work
Finally, I can play all these expensive ass games that I never could before.

>>2324052

>>2320112
You were probably trying to mod a launch model then, those are a pain in the ass, with the power supply mounted on the top and the machine having multiple layers of PCB.

All the subsequent models are way simpler to take apart. Just unscrew the emi shield(s) and there you go, all of the motherboard is there.

>>2324052
>VF Kids

high five. Awesome little game.

>>2309149
I thought that was debunked ages ago.

>>2324052
>Sega Saturn Magazine

mah nigga

>>2324103
i love this magazine you wont believe i was a Nintendo fan growing up

>>2324103

>>2324106
Ha, I was a SEGA kid and I read N64 Magazine. I guess great games writing transcends console loyalty.

>>2324115

>>2324121
I loved super play magazine

>>2324106
I believe it, I was a Nintendo fan too until the 64.
Hell, I bought Saturn Magazine even though I didn't have a Saturn.

>>2324125
>Bioshock Infinite
Hah

>>2324098
Its true
The Saturn version is just the best version gameplay wise

I mean because the psp added more characters but >psp

>>2312113
Not only is that framerate really choppy, but I also heard from a lot of people (although really I don't know the source on this claim) that it's running on souped up version of a saturn devkit with extra ram.

>>2325316
What would be the point of making a Saturn game that can't run on a saturn? Not to mention it seems theyre really far into development as theres stuff from Shenmue 2.

>>2308504

>>2325330
>Not to mention it seems theyre really far into development as theres stuff from Shenmue 2.
I don't know where I read this, I think it might have been Yu Suzuki's Shenmue Post Mortem at the GDC, but if I remember correctly the story/characters from Shenmue 2 was going to be part of the first game as well, but they eventually expanded it. Don't forget the game was subject to a lot of changes, it did start as Virtua Fighter RPG you know.
Even for the Virtua Fighter 3 port there were rumors it would require an additional 3D peripheral, and considering that was an AM2 project as well maybe they were going to use that for Shenmue.
Just keep in mind there are a lot of rumors surrounding these sort of things (and people perpetuating these unsubstantiated rumors [like me right now]) and not very well documented, it's real hard to say what's bullshit and what's not

>>2325330
They were planning a bunch of mid-life upgrades for the machine.

But as far as I know, it was running on stock machine. I'm pretty sure that they said as much in an interview.

Extra RAM wouldn't really help too much anyway, the machine would need extra video ram, and as far as I know no Saturn devkit ever boosted the video ram.

>>2325332
>Limited edition extras
So nice

>>2325565
That's a beautiful dog.

Definitely not as impressive as OP's but I love it.

>>2325585
How are the saturn ports of megaman x3 and x4?

>>2325585
I love the jap cover of sonic jam so much

When is Megamix 2

>>2325820
>When is Megamix 2

Dead or Alive 5 is as close as you'll get.

>>2325805
X3 isn't great, it's got some very annoying borders and the soundtrack kinda sucks compared to the cart version.

X4 is much better, and it really trumps the PS1 version of the game.

I don't find the Saturn controller particularly comfortable for either game though, doesn't help I grew up playing the games on the SNES/PS1-style controller.

>>2325870
damn okay, what do you think the best port of x3 would be to play?

>>2325870
>X4 is much better, and it really trumps the PS1 version of the game.

It's a better version, but you're really overselling it. It loops music more seamlessly and has a few negligible graphical effects. It's nothing like the differences between 8.

>>2325805
poster here

i really enjoy them using the Saturn controller

>>2325870
this anon actually has it spot on

>>2325875
X3 is honestly my least favorite of the SNES X tiles, but trying to be as impartial as possible here, if you absolutely need a port go with the PS1 version, since the Saturn has borders and X collection is crap, but I'd still say the SNES version is the best version out there.

>>2325882
>X collection is crap

What are you talking about? X3 on X Collection is literally the same thing as the PSX version with faster load times. Down to the 240p resolution. The only downside is that it has the awful international opening and endings, but that's got nothing to do with the Collection.

>>2325884
not really, it's actually subpar emulation.

Granted it didn't mess things up as bad as classic collection.

>>2325901
Dude, the X Collection didn't emulate -any- of the games. All of them were ports; even X1 and X2. Why do you think X1 and X2 no longer have slowdown and have their music streamed on seperate files like X4, 5, and 6's music was? Have you even played the X Collection? You're going to have to back up this claim somehow.

>>2307519
>the
I never had a saturn until earlier this year when i got an American one for 3 dollars.. I think of it as a dreamcast 0.5.

Best ways to clean/buff/de-yellow Saturn cases?

Is it true that the PS2 was harder to program than a Saturn?

>>2326850
Nope.

If GooGone doesn't clean it, then it's permenant.

Automatic buffing machines completely destroy them, and I'm speaking from experience there.

Still hoping someone will create reproduction longcases someday. Whoever does will get rich very fast. DVD cases are a poor solution because manuals won't fit in them.

>>2326874
Meant more for the system case. I just picked up a gray one with some yellowing on the side and back, and one of the controllers is kind of tinted and the black plug part is a bit loose. I'm wondering if retrobrite or anything like that would help get yellowing out, and windex or other cleaner for a few light marks.

>>2326876
With white Saturns you may find that the yellowing in a lot of cases is due to Japan's love of nicotine more than anything. I just got another white one as a backup and it cleaned up to its original color, or thereabouts, with some rubbing alcohol and cotton swabs. The original model grey ones that show signs of yellowing might be more of a SNES type situation that can't be remedied as easy. Have you tried cleaning it? Would be curious to hear your results.

>>2326865
>Is it true that the PS2 was harder to program than a Saturn?

I think they were about equally difficult. Both required you to do a lot of hardware specific low-level optimizations to make the most out of the machine.

How difficult is it to pirate games for the Saturn?

>>2327202
Fairly easy. Honestly, finding isos that are in bin and cue is the hardest part, you wind up ripping your own after mounting them most of the time.

You need either an action replay, which is about 40 bucks, or a modchip, which is about 40 bucks, and requires you to solder one very easy wire. Or you can just use the swap trick for free, if you want to go to that much trouble every time.

>>2327205

Will any of these methods damage the
longevity of the device? I imagine a swap trick would be damaging.
I've got very little soldering experience.

>>2327207
If you can hold a soldering iron without burning yourself, you can fit a Saturn modchip. The Saturn laser is fairly robust, most people seem to think that a modchip is actually better for it, because it stops the laser trying to seek to the outer protection band of the disk, reducing movement.

>>2327223

I see. So it's a better idea to purchase a modchip?

Also, can I easily get 240p out of games played on euro consoles? Do euro consoles do RGB or S-Video easily?

>>2324125
>AARGH My eyes.
Need to fix that ratio on yer TV for Saturn sweetness anon. That Duke ain't supposed to be 16:9

>>2327225
Depends on the console. Sega is generally fine, as is Sony. Nintendo are a hassle, NES needs a very expensive mod for anything better than composite, SNES has poor quality RGB on most models, and N64 is a disaster zone.

If you're talking euro, your first question should really be about 60hz. Everything released before the PS1 needs a mod, including the Saturn. Even then, they output non-standard color which means you need to use RGB, and there are some minor clock speed issues for some consoles.

Ideally, buy NTSC all the way. It's less hassle. You can import a lot of old systems and peripherals from Japan for even less than they cost from EU price gougers, and they're almost always pristine.

>>2327239

So I can't play Saturn games on a european Saturn at 240p60 instead of 288p50 without a physical mod?
Fuck, OK then.

>>2327202

The other day I flashed my Action Replay cartidge with the pseudosaturn and now I can run copies.
It's actually very easy, the only semi-difficult (more of a hassle than difficult) is having to open up your Saturn and use a bit fo tape on a switch, so that the saturn can spin discs while the tray is open (this is to perform the disc swap trick).
You will need to do the disc swap in order to install the pseudosaturn firmware on the Action Replay cartidge, but you only need to do it once.
Once the AR4 has the pseudosaturn installed, you can play copies no problem.

The only pros this has is that the pseudosaturn doesn't let you use the Save function of the AR4 cart, so you will need to either rely on the Saturn's internal memory (which doesn't work in 90% of Saturns, and even if you change the battery, it will only last a few months), or use another Save cart. The thing is that the Saturn's cart slot is fragile, so taking carts in and out all the time isn't reccommended.
The big adventage of AR4 and pseudosaturn is that you still get the region-free and 1MB/4MB RAM extra of the AR4, plus you can play CD-Rs. So even if you get a modchip, you'll still want an AR4 cart, it's very convenient.

>>2327248

Is there a possibility of Pseudosaturn letting you be able to use the save function of the AR4 in the future?
What kind of games need the extra RAM?

>>2327242
Yeah, and the mod varies depending on revision. On some, it's as easy as opening up the battery compartment and soldering a jumper between 2 pads. On others, you have to lift a pin on the video chip.

>>2327262

That sounds simpler and cheaper than importing a console.

>>2327258

>Is there a possibility of Pseudosaturn letting you be able to use the save function of the AR4 in the future?

I'd assume the possibility is there, but I have no idea how long it will take.

>What kind of games need the extra RAM?

A lot of arcade ports like Capcom and SNK games.

>>2327264
Depends on your soldering expertise, honestly. You have to solder a wire to the video chip pin, so it's not like you can just break it off.

>>2327278

Oh, right. Yeah, I'm not that good.

>>2327205
>or a modchip, which is about 40 bucks,

They are 25$ at assemblergames last time I checked.

>>2327262
Lifting the video pin is never necessary as long as you know what you are doing. I've modded every different PAL motherboard for 50/60 and never required lifting the pin.

>>2327264
I honestly can't think of a single PAL game other than maybe Panzer Dragoon 1-2 which are optimized and you can't just play the JP versions and be fine. And even then you can skip the story in PD1-2 and still play the game - or, if you have a modchip, burn the USA version instead and have it play fine on a NTSC Saturn.

If you are not willing to mod your PAL Saturn for 50/60, there is very little incentive to not go for a NTSC model instead. I keep playing PAL units because I like the colour scheme and the different bios boot logo, and I can mod them fine... but if I had no soldering iron, I'd probably just use a normal Japanese console.

>>2327341

I'm not used to importing consoles, so I don't know how costly or tricky it'd be.

>>2327345
Shipping costs may be very high if you import from a Japanese seller, and you need a 220v->110v converter. That's about it. No other tricks (other than the SCART cables that shipped with PAL units not working with NTSC units).

>>2327348

I see.
How can you tell what kind of 50/60Hz mod a PAL Saturn would need?

>>2327350
What's the serial of the machine?

>>2327356

I'm considering purchasing one, I don't have one quite yet.

>>2327360
Look for ones where the serial starts with 050, AD63, AD65 or 165. They have solder points on the board specifically for a 50/60 switch.

The 050 one is a launch model and is compatible with Rhea as well.

>>2327375

Good info, thanks. So they're the easiest to mod.

Rhea?

>>2327378
Some pointless SD card drive replacement.

It made a little bit of sense on the DC, because of the whole GD rom shit. For other disk based consoles, it's basically worthless for the next decade or two, but then it'll become the go-to solution because emulating a drive is less hassle than finding old CD-Rs, and you'll be able to get SD cards with a gig of storage for cheap so you can run the whole library off one card.

>>2326956
Well, I'm just always afraid to take tops off of systems. Besides, there's some conflicting information about cleaning, some say the isopropyl will soften the plastic, or that the ammonia in windex is no good, so I don't really know where to start with cleaning and restoring.

>>2325901
you are talking about the anyversary collection of classic megaman, that one was done by a shit company and not capcom themselves, X collection was handled by capcom themselves, they fixed the awful slowdown on X2

>>2327397
>Some pointless SD card drive replacement.

Sounds like you are too poor to afford one.

Yeah, having 40 games pre-loaded in my Saturn at the push of a button, with drive noise completely eliminated, slightly improved load times, and not having to worry about the laser wearing out or the discs getting damaged. That sure is pointless!

>>2327410
Personally, the benefits don't outweigh the disadvantages for me. I don't even have a HDD in my PS2, because some games are incompatible with that solution.

I can see it being useful if you like swapping games a lot, but I don't really do that past the SNES era anyway.

>>2327397
>finding old CD-Rs
Interesting point. I've never had a Saturn drive go bad or even act up a bit but I bought a bunch of spares just in case. I suspect I'll be spending my replicator credits on making CD-Rs long before I have to worry about drives.

What are "affordable" shmups for the Saturn? I really only have In the Hunt and Twinkle Star Sprites.

>>2328291
Darius II. Layer Section. Twinbee. I think that's it for affordable shmups.

>>2328291
Darius Gaiden, Parodius Deluxe Pack, Layer Section. Get the Japanese versions, they are cheaper.

If you are willing to spend $50 on a game, you also have Soukyugurentai, Thunder Force V, Donpachi, Dodonpachi, Layer Section 2, Sexy Parodius. Not all of them would be complete with regcard/spinecard for that much money, but if you just want to play the games, you can find them as low as $50 on ebay with some luck.

How the FUCK do you clean controller jacks, I got a used controller that I had to superglue the black section of the jack back into the Sega-labeled plastic bit

So I just recently got a Japanese Saturn (a buddy of mine picked it up for me while he was in Japan over the last couple of weeks), and I have to ask...did I pick the wrong time to start picking up Saturn imports? I usually just buy on eBay, but it seems a lot of the prices are simply just out there...I didn't expect almost all of the good shmups to be 50-100+ (I knew Radiant Silvergun was up there, didn't think Donpachi/Dodonpachi, Sexy Parodius, TFV etc would be too...) and a lot of other things I was hoping to get are pricey as well. Is this just a recent trend or am I just looking at all the wrong stuff? Something I was really excited to get was Bubble Symphony, and it's a shame to see that's 50ish as well on eBay..
Am I looking in all the wrong places or is this just how it is nowadays?

My collection of Saturn games. I don't show my two saturns or Virtua Cop boxes of pure laziness.

>>2330028

It's just how it is nowdays, collecting retro games is hip, and the Saturn is, like, total rad now.

10 years ago, Saturn games were dirt cheap, because westerners still thought it was a failed system and had nothing worth playing outside of Sega's arcades.

>>2330028
Games across the board are fucked now. You used to at least be able to pick up consoles for cheap, but now they're so totes retro that everyone wants an old NES to make earmuffs out of.

Even Japan is in on it now, they'll sell retro shit for 10 times what it goes for in Japanese stores.

The only solution is to get a modchip, which is thankfully incredibly easy to install.

>>2330209
>The only solution is to get a modchip
>only
You can also use the swap method (wouldn't recommend) and the Pseudo Saturn bootloader.
Not to mention SSF emulator, and Yabause is finally picking up steam.

>>2330370
The Pseudo Saturn is only for people who hate the idea of saving their games.

>>2330385
You can still use the system memory, not very recommended for obvious reasons. But I'm still hopeful they'll find a way to figure it out.
Saturn's future looking very bright.

>>2330385

I hope they manage to include save capabilities on it.
Once they do that, it will be the definitive way to have all functions the Saturn could have in one cart.

I have an official save cart, and I found the AR4 cart to be unreliable when it comes to save data (it can get erased easily by firmware errors randomly). It's really too bad the cart slot is as fragile as they say. I personally never had problems with my slot detecting carts, but I'm afraid it might get fucked up so I try to not change carts too often, and when I do, I do it with utmost care.

>>2330390
The problem there is that the official save cart would still be miles better, because games save directly onto it. With AR and other 3rd part stuff, you need to save onto the system memory then move it, and the games can't recognise the saves unless you move them back to internal memory.

>>2330396

Actually, some games don't directly save to the cart the first time, they still save to the internal memory first.
But once you move the saves to the cart (by entering the menu when you boot the console), the game will recognize the cart and save there the next time.

But yeah, with save carts/memory cards, going for the official ones is always the best. I lost so many save data with 3rd party memory cards of PS1 and N64... and I also lost data with the AR4.

IMO the AR4 is best for region-free and the extra RAM. I just wish the cartidge slot wasn't so fragile, damn it.

>>2330401
>But once you move the saves to the cart (by entering the menu when you boot the console), the game will recognize the cart and save there the next time.
AFAIK not all games. Some earlier games just don't recognize cartridge at all. I might be wrong since my cartridge doesn't work half the time.

Just read that a Dragon Force II translation is out:

http://www.romhacking.net/translations/1622/

>>2330370
>Yabause is finally picking up steam.

Maybe in 10 more years it'll finally be able to play one game without glitches, that isn't a homebrew title.

>Sakura Taisen series will never be fully localized
>I'll have to learn moonspeak to play the rest of the series outside of 5

>>2330562
Don't worry, maybe they'll make special goggles in 20 years that auto translate everything you see.

Or maybe you should just learn Japanese for the mountains of games and porn.

>>2330570
What's the best way to go about learning Japanese anon?

>>2330572
Step 1. Learn kana. (1 day)
Step 2. Learn grammar. (1 month)
Step 3. Learn vocab and kanji. (the rest of your life)
And that's all there is to it! Ezpz.

>>2330572
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZEA54VJEdE

>>2330612
Namasensei is the best, YOU BITCH!

>>2330562
There is a group working on a translation of ST1 (the PC version).

>>2331441
Nama-senseis pronounciation is shit.

Just got a model 1 with all cables and a controller for 55 dollars including shipping. How did I do?

>>2331635
Pretty good, I got a JP Model 1 with 2 controllers and all cables for 72 before shipping.

>>2330535
The dream

>>2330572
Tae Kim+Anki

I've never been a fan of the standrd saturn arcade stick. What would be the best choice for an alternative stick?

>>2333032
hss-0139 Saturn arcade stick.

If you are lucky, you may end up with the ones using seimetsu sticks inside.

They are also great bases for easy modding.

>>2333174
damn I just looked em up and they look great. wish they weren't so expensive

How long before Saturn model 2 has SD card loading?

>>2330574
best grammar tool?

>>2333220
Until you finance production and point out a reliable, cheap source for the parts.

I think it may be possible to hack some model 2s to work with Rhea, but I'm too lazy to solder a pin converter to try it out.

>>2324092
Launch model is a Model 1? Or was there a pre-Model 1?

>>2333405
Launch model is a model 1 with the power supply mounted on the top. They were put together completely differently than all later boards, were heavily layered, and a bitch to re-assemble.

Every other later unit were way simpler to disassemble..

>>2333032
Nigga I own 2 one of which sits on my nightstand.

The saturn watches me sleep. Hell give or take 2 feet and it sleeps with me.

>>2333415
Wait, I thought model 1s were the preferred model for modding now?

>>2307317

Can anyone give me some advice on what might be wrong with my Saturn?

It's a model 2. I put a mod chip in it a number of years ago and it worked fine. Anyways, I moved across the country and left it at home. I just now got it shipped out.

Anyways, it works for awhile then it freezes. Usually when something is loading it freezes up.

The end of Chapter 2 on Panzer Dragoon Zwei for example. The music will skip during the first part of Darius Gaiden. Sega Rally will occasionally freeze after a race.

Sometimes the disk won't spin when I turn the system on. If I knock it gently it'll fire up. Could that be a power problem?

I've been playing an Audio CD for about 10 minutes now and it hasn't frozen.

Anyways, any thoughts? I really want to get it working again.

>>2333716

Well, after six tracks the audio cd cut out

>>2333631
There are many separate model 1 boards, some easier to mod, and they are preferred because they are guaranteed to have stable video on digital TVs and because they are compatible with Rhea.

>>2333716
Bad power supply or cd drive.

>>2334038
Well... shit. Hope I bet on the right horse.

The console I just got came with the model 1 controller. What games won't I be able to play with that?

>>2334548
Anything that requires d-pad motions more complex than going in one direction at the time.

>>2334582
Fucking hell.

>>2334548
>>2334613
overdramatize much?

>>2334625
Actually, I was asking because I'm a retard and didn't see the shoulder buttons on the model 1 and just assumed it was brought in a later revision like the NiGHTS 3D controller. Guess I'm a retard.

Just got Vampire Hunter and Savior in the mail, still waiting on my AR cart. Is there a way to play imports without AR or mod chip, like a swap trick? I'd like to play some of Hunter while I wait for my cart.

>>2334932
Solder a region mod (you only have to switch some jumpers around) or install a region free bios (you need to desolder SMD chips for that).

>>2334932
Are those AR cards worthwhile, or are they just cheap garbage?

>>2334989
AR cart owner here
I have had zero troubles with mine and the people who say it damages the cart slot are just fucking idiots and have never even seen one that wasn't on ebay.

>>2334993
Good. Thinking about ordering one, but I went full retard and didn't think to ask the seller if the cartridge slot was working. I may just end up having to do a region mod switch since I need to learn to solder for the modchip anyway.

>>2334993
Seconding this. The only problem of the AR is that it sometimes ends up nuking its own firmware, losing all your saves. And it's a bit of a hassle going through the fucking menu for every single game boot.

>>2334945

Hmm, sounds like it won't be worth the trouble when I'll be getting the AR in by the end of the month.

I've got a 64-pin Model 2, what kind of modchip should I be looking at?

>>2335148
Phantom chip is the only good one.

All the other ones use random firmware from china, they may or may not work, regardless of what is advertised. Only by a random chip if the seller confirms that he tested it in a 64pin machine beforehand.

>>2335159
What about this one? http://www.segastyle.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=76

>>2335165
That's not the Phantom chip.

>>2335182
What makes this phantom chip superior?

>>2335193
Higher build quality, consistent compatibility, lowest price.

Other chips are sourced from China and they either work or they don't.

>>2335201
I'll grant you that the price is certainly right compared to other modchips, but I'm not crazy about the "pay me first and get the diagram later" approach that guy is taking.

>>2322576
Thanks man. Here's the other half, my import stuff.

Threads still up a week later huh? /tv/ has stronger saturn following than I once thought. Have to check in more often.

>>2322576
Thanks, man. Heres the other half.


Thread's still up? Sanshiro approves.

>>2335260
Fuckin' jealous man, I just picked up Devil Summoner, Soul Hackers, Puyo 2 and 3, Sakura Taisen 1 and 2, but you have some really expensive stuff there.

>>2335209
What diagram?

>>2335209
>no Sexy Parodius

your collection is officially not sexy.

>>2335287
I can only assume this is the guy you were talking about, seeing as only his name is associated with any sort of phantom saturn chip.

>>2335305
I have no idea what diagrams is he talking about. Tracking numbers maybe? It would make sense if he could only send those after shipping?

>>2335305

You can get an install guide right here:

http://www.theisozone.com/downloads/other-consoles/sega-saturn/phantom-universal-install-guide-sega-saturn-modchip-by-zer0-2k11/

Also, is there a good place to buy Model 2 controllers aside from eBay? In Canada they're like $20 + shipping.

>>2335314
Can you give me a link to a site selling these chips if he's evidently not the right guy? Google is turning up precisely dick.

>>2335318
I never said it wasn't the right guy.

I'm just confused as to whatever importance a diagram has to do with Saturn modchips, why they would even matter. It may be a language barrier here because English is my second language.

>>2335316
>try to download .pdf
>won't start
>try again
>nothing
>refresh
>you have maxed out your free downloads, wait 41 minutes or become a premium user for lightning fast speeds!

I fucking hate cloudstores and, by extension, the iso zone.

>>2335323
>>2335316
Why do you even need an install guide? You connect two ribbons and solder a power cable to the +5v source. All connectors are marked on the chip. Unless you are one of those morons who keeps slamming a square peg into a round hole, you can install it without anyone holding your hand.

>>2335326
So it's just like the other chip I linked earlier except supposedly of highly exceptional quality?

>>2335329
Not just supposedly.

The Chinese chips run different code. You can have two identical chips that have different compatibility. There is no telling that, until you put it in the machine.

Phantom chips run on the same code base, so you have no such problem, and they are confirmed to run fine on all Saturns.

>>2335339
>The Chinese chips run different code.

*per every chip, I mean.

>>2335342
>>2335339
Can you source this claim? Sorry to ask this of you, but you must know that I have your word against the 77 reviews of the universal v3.

>>2335365
Those 77 different reviews online used 1 chip in 1 Saturn and called it a day.

I've tested multiple v3 chips in almost every different Saturn drive. Wanted to build a compatibility table, but then I started getting wildly random results for the same modchips, which would be only possible if they were programmed with different code, since the boards were otherwise identical.

From the top of my head all the V3s worked in 64pin machines, but I only tried so many of them, there's always a chance that you end up with one that won't work (some reviews ended up with combinations like that, I think the HG101 one was like that).

>>2335394
Fucking incredible. First racketboy's ended up being shit and now sega style's.

>>2335398
>and now sega style's.
Really? I was going to order one for my JP Model 1, what's the deal?

>>2335398
If you try tracing back the pinouts, you'll see that they are the exact same design on a different pcb.

and its not their chip, they just bought up some stock and resell them.

>>2335404
Well according to the individual in this thread, they're inconsistently coded meaning you might get one that doesn't work.

>>2335408
I wonder if ordering that install service would be better, so it could be swapped or something? What a pain in the ass, where am I supposed to get a modchip now?

>>2335412
I don't know. Fucking lord, if I'd known it would be this much of a pain in the ass I'd have prepared to buy legitimate copies.

>>2335412
>>2335413

The guy was recommending the Phantom chip. It's actually cheaper than the V3 ($27 CAD + shipping versus $40 USD + shipping).

>>2335415
I guess. Hope I can trust the guy though, I've never thrown money and information at a some guy on a forum before.

>>2335418

In the thread he links to there's a ton of comments from people that received the chip and were happy with it. I once bought a game from someone on /vr/, the whole thing went through smoothly.

>>2335408
For what it is worth, most V3s I tried worked on nearly all machines, they just needed different settings. Sometimes all 21pin drives worked in 0014 setting. Sometimes only JVC drives did, Sanyo ones needed 0019 setting. Sometimes 64pin drives worked in 0014 setting only, 32pin drives worked in either setting, and Sanyo drives didn't work on any setting.

So there's a high chance they'll still work in your machine. But this kind of bullshit tells tales about the build quality of the chip, which is why I'm heavily recommending the Phantom ones instead.

And yeah, install service is better, then they HAVE to put a chip in it that works. Or at the very least, ask them to send a chip that is verified to work on a drive identical to yours.

>>2335423
>0014 and 0019 bridging

Sheeit, dawg, I have a model 1.

>>2335423
>And yeah, install service is better, then they HAVE to put a chip in it that works.
I was erring on that side, I hate ripping apart my machines. But is there a risk of the thing burning out after a while or something? Motherboard shit goes way over my head.

>>2335425
20pin drives worked either by not bridging anything, or by bridging 0019 (from the top of my head).

But model 1s can still have 21pin drives inside. They just swapped the case, the hardware inside was updated at a different pace.

>>2335432
According to sega style's instructions, the jumpers are ignored entirely for model 1s. This probably assumes 20 pins though. Or maybe it doesn't. I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about besides what's spelled out for me on a webpage.

>>2335430
>But is there a risk of the thing burning out after a while or something?

Not unless you accidentally short circuit it or physically damage it.

>>2335436
Yes, it assumes 20pin drives, but model 1s can also have 21pin drives inside. It is uncommon, but they exist.

0019 jumper connects to nothing if you are using a 20pin connector, so having that bridged is the same as not bridging anything, hence why it works.

>>2335449
So what were your test results on 20 pin drive models?

>>2335456
The 20pin drives don't vary as much as 21pin ones, pretty much all the chips I tried that had 20pin connectors worked fine when using them.

21pin drives have 4-5 different variants to support, with different pinouts.

>>2335459
Gotcha. Well, I'd say the next step hinges on whether or not my saturn is 20 or 21 pin (still shipping), but the one you talked about is cheaper and apparently the same if not better.

You don't happen to know anything about his PSX modchip mayumi v4, do you?

I've been playing Real Bout Special on the Saturn recently. Pretty great port, but I noticed the music clip of blue mary's blues has some sync issues. Anybody else noticed?

>>2335758
I have real bout special but I never really noticed that
Ill see if its like that

i have question, if i get a wapanese white sega saturn -- what do i need to do to power+plug it into an american outlet+tv?

>>2336679
Hands, preferably.

>>2336679
Just make sure you don't have some weird Yuro outlet. If you really care, get a step-up transformer. My JP saturn runs at a slightly warmer temperature on a US plug.

>>2308469
>cartridge port for
model 2 arcade games

>>2335758

Does it have Blue Mary's topless scene?

>>2336939

As far as I know the video is the same as in the original neo geo CD ver. Not sure if there was a topless scene? but yeah there's some mild lewd.

>>2335271
Eh, I'm showing off. Looks like im rich, but mostly all bought 10+ years ago when i was in hs and juco, saturn games were 1/2 even 1/4 the price now.

I'm digging all the Bulk Slash love going on in this thread.

I recently went a little crazy with my Saturn shopping and picked up Battle Garegga and Hyper Duel. I'm still in the market for Taromaru.

I'm a co-host of a podcast devoted to the Saturn (although in our most recent episode we took a 32x detour. We'll have a new Saturn focused ep out soon.). We focus on one or two games per episode and try to talk about them in as much detail as possible. http://thevirtuacast.libsyn.com/

>>2337663

Go shill your 2.0 bullshit on /v/

>>2337676
K

>>2337663
Love me sum hypah dual.
Like the Thunder Force series, just moving left to right, the level, enemy and boss designs do the story-telling, dont even need a text translation. Granted the plot isnt deep, but you do get a sense whats happened in that tortured little scifi universe.
Also, the twist in the last level was classic. Dont know why we dont see more stuff like that in other shumps.

>>2334038
got an article on the issues with digital tvs? I've got my model 2 hooked up to my CRT TV via composite at the moment (no video issues), but whenever I try to use Svideo on my LCD TV, lines appear at an angle and go to the right downward. The fuck is going on?

>>2339027
You mean that the topmost part of the screen has a permanent bend, and the lines going down on the screen look like the picture has been bent a bit in that line as well?
And the moving lines appear most often when you hear the drive motor?

That's exactly the problem.

Doesn't seem to happen on CRTs (or it happens so much less often that we can't see it).

what with this thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9SxSlvM0cE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_UIY1YXS7E

>>2340383
Someone seems to have built a custom case, with a Rhea inside, so the entire thing is half the height of a normal Saturn.

>>2340417
oh, so it's not like a reverse engineered saturn clone?

>>2340480
No, just a custom case + SD Loader.

>>2335271
>Devil Summoner
Fucking great taste mate. Hope you enjoy all these dungeons.

>>2335758
Yeah I noticed the sync issues, as well.

Is the Saturn worthwhile if you're not into weebshit?

>>2341470
Define weebshit. If you just mean games from Japan, then no. Like 99% if it's best games are Japanese. If you just mean kawaii uguu~ otaku pandering trash well yeah it's worth getting, there's loads of great shmups, fighting games, arcade ports and utterly unique gems like NiGHTS.

>>2341370
To be honest I've already finished the PSP version since it's more accessible, but it's still no simple feat beating it in Jap on hardware.