/vr/ - Retro Games

no

Yes

maybe.

I dont't know

>>2293796
Of course not. Do you seriously believe they would have blamed the failure on the format? Did the failure of the Sega CD or Turbo CD in ANY way, shape or form impede the CD-ROM format?

Cartridges are a lot more expensive to reproduce than disks and holds a hell of a lot less. There's no way we'd still be using them for major consoles today. The only advantage cartridges have is the ability to add hardware to the cartridge itself to augment the console's perfomance. However, if you have a powerful enough system then you really don't need the extra power.

>>2293803

Only marginally, but your point still stands.

>>2293796
nope

They're cheap (even back then, far cheaper than ROM chips). They hold a fucking ton of data.They just made good business sense.

all of the issues with CDs addons in the early 90s were due to 3 things: load speed (a 1x drive is more than too slow to actually use for anything data related), available RAM (you had to load what you needed somewhere, and if your drive was slow and you didn't have that much RAM, there'd be a lot of loading), and FMV bullshit instead of games

>>2293796
We'll talk when games come on SSD like devices. Which is quite like cartridges..

It's funny.. I grew up with a NES/SNES/Genesis in the early 90's but I feel the most nostalgic for Playstation for some reason.

>>2293808
>CD-R
>a small disc of cheap plastic
>pennies
>DVD-R
>slighty more then a CD-R
>Blu-Ray/HD-DVD
>slightly more then a DVD-R

vs.
>Entire circuit board
>Shell to protect circuit board

Carts are a relic of the past. They are pretty much the worst solution in terms of mass distribution. They are labor intensive to make and the only reason they lasted so long is because they were tried and true. Once CD tech caught up they were just left in the dust.

>>2293803
>Sega CD
>Turbo CD
>failure

>>2294038

In the west. In Japan I believe both performed well, if not exactly exceeding all sales records.

handhelds still use cartridge-like tech right?

>>2294056
Not even close. An SD is fundamentally different then a PCB

>>2294056

Sure, because disks don't do well during movement. It's currently being phased out for digital only solutions though.

>>2294058

True. As I recall the two have only vague similarities, correct?

>>2294045
Sega CD was a huge failure in Japan (like every Sega console that was not advertized by Segata Sanshiro), and in Europe it was a complete marketing disaster (it was introduced when the Mega CD 2 was about to be released, consumers did not know whether to buy this or the later better unit, etc... but at least the games came in proper cases).

It only really sold in North America.

>>2294058
>>2294063

They're both solid state memory. The difference can be seen here https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/69234/what-is-the-difference-between-flash-memory-and-eeprom

>>2294120

And here: http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/hardware-technology/difference-between-eeprom-and-flash/

>>2294058
A lot of people compare DS game cards to old cartridges because they're both solid-state and share similar advantages in load speed and durability compared to discs. But yeah, you're right, they're completely different from a cost and manufacturing standpoint.

>>2294167
and it's not retro. it took at least a decade for flash memory to get relatively cheap. i remember when a microsd card cost twice as much a thumbdrive of equal space. cost even more if you bought a high speed one made for professional cameras or video recorders.

The PC Engine CD actually did very well in Japan, despite being an add-on. It's one of the rare instances of an add-on outliving the base console, as HuCards were phased out years before the CDs were.

As for the west, CDs didn't really catch on until the Playstation, but it's not like the Sega CD, Turbo CD, Amiga CD32, 3DO and CDI gave CDs a bad name or anything, the hardware was simply not cheap enough to justify the relatively small libraries of good games.

I remember reading somewhere that a PlayStation CD cost on average about $1 to make and another $10 to package them in cases.
Where as developers payed Nintendo at least $10 to have a cartridge made and another $20 at least for packaging.

With cartridges you definitely don't want 2nd/3rd party makers. Look at the shit with Genesis to see what happens then.


Cartridges were doomed from the get go. Only hardware kept them alive.

>>2294238
>$1 to make and another $10 to package them in cases
It's far less than that, actually. It's less than $5 a unit total (depending on printing options) when you start printing in the thousands. The nice thing about cd duplication is that it was already widespread, fast, and inexpensive well before the time the Playstation came out.

>>2293796
No. The failure would have inspired Nintendo to work harder on optical technology and they would have created the UMD which went on to become the ultimate standard for distribution of handheld gaming content.

>>2293803
>failure of the Sega CD or Turbo CD
And by "Turbo CD" you mean "my logic"

>>2294058
Never opened an SD and seen that little PCB in there have you?

>>2294167
You know this from your manufacturing experience in what? Bigmacs?

>>2294820

>Never opened an SD and seen that little PCB in there have you?

The /v/tard never likes to be educated on a topic. Despite the information posted in thread, they'll still spew their ignorance everywhere like a dog marking it's territory.

>>2294848
The ignorant child never likes to be educated on a topic. They'll treat ignorance like a dog eating shit, lapping it up, puking it out, and lapping it up again.
Funny how you worship the "information posted in thread" without having the slightest understanding of it. Guess I shouldn't expect anything more from someone too young to have ever seen a full sized SD card.

>>2293798
>>2293797
>>2293801
>>2293802
Can you repeat the question?

This is about the Virtual Boy and the upcoming wave of VR, isn't it?

>>2295181
le epic maymay lel fail

>>2294820

You should calm down big fella. You keep on like that you'll have a stroke one day, you know.

>>2294096

Now see, I have a rather hard time believing that when I also hear that there were quite a bit of legitimate (read: not FMV trash) Japanese SCD games that simply never were considered for localization thanks to SOA's buttfuck-retarded marketing strategy of "no rpgs plz moar grainy interactive movies kthxbai!".

Then again, the MD itself reportedly did downright puny in Japan.....Any other Anon feel like weighing in on this minor mystery?

>>2297203
The MD and all its accessories did very poorly because they were up against Nintendo in their prime.

Saturn did great because it launched with Virtua Fighter (most popular game in Japan at the time), and then it got tons of great games and some of the best ports of the era plus they had Segata Sanshiro who was also incredibly popular. Nintendo was struggling at the time, and the Playstation only got its major blockbusters by late 97-98.

>>2297203
>I also hear that there were quite a bit of legitimate (read: not FMV trash) Japanese SCD games that simply never were considered for localization

There really weren't that many. Not anywhere close to the amount of games the PC Engine CD had that the TG-16 CD did not. Off the top of my head you've got Shadowrun, Shin Megami Tensei, and a really good port of The Ninja Warriors. The rest, and even that's not all that many, are either anime licensed games or Genesis ports like Earnest Evans and Heavy Nova, which weren't exactly great games to start with. Even Panic, as weird and Japanese as it is, got localized.

What the other guy said is true. The Sega CD was a moderate success in the United States and that's really about it. To put it in perspective, the Sega CD sold approximately 2.7 million units in the US alone. I don't know what its sales were in Japan, but its best-selling game, Lunar 1, only sold about 100,000 copies there, as opposed to the US' best selling game (Sonic CD, obviously) selling about a million copies in the States.

>>2297259

Huh....You learn something new every day. Thanks for the info, Anon.

>>2294001
Do want.

>>2293796
Optical disks are waaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper than ROM cartridges, so no.

Though, I'd like to note that mobile platforms all use cartridges still, with the exception of the PSU which used VMU disks. The format was so bad for it that the next version was download only and the Vita reverted to cartridges (which are suuuuuper tiny)

Spinning discs are generally very very bad for electronics with batteries that move around a lot.

No, because discs would have triumphed over cartridges to store data eventually because of the music and film industries. It's about data storage, not influence.

>>2293796
>cartridges
What make you think we still using that?

Speaking of the Sega CD, Aiwa actually made a combination stereo/SCD player that is now one of the most expensive consoles on Yahoo auctions.

But it was released, eventually. As a stand-alone console. And it was called "Playstation."

Do you not know the story of Sony and Nintendo and Phillips? It's really a rather interesting love-triangle-turned-three-warring-kingdoms story where Nintendo plays the role of the scorned woman with Philips and Sony being former best friends-turned-bitter-rivals.
To put it euphemistically, Nintendo was dating Sony. They were in love. They planned on having a baby together. But before Sony would put even just the tip in, he asked Nintendo for a prenup stipulating that the baby be raised in a certain way. Nintendo balked. "I WANT TOTAL CONTROL OF EVERYTHING, ALWAYS AND FOREVER!!!" So Sony was like "You know what? I'm done. I am so done. I'm gonna find a way to have a baby without needing to get in bed with a controlling skank."

Nintendo, dejected, ran like a bitch into Philips, Sony's former best friend and now frenemy, arms, spreading her legs like a whore. "FUCK ME!" she squealed "AND ABUSE MY BABIES BEYOND ALL REASON!!"
And so, the Sony/Nintendo baby, the SNES-CD, never came to be, the single-parent Sony baby, the Playstation was born and the Nintendo/Philips children that should have been aborted rather than born, the CD-I games, saw the light of day.

The "prenup" here was a contract wherein Nintendo would give some control of their IPs to Sony, as they did with Philips. Additionally, Sony was very, very critical of Nintendo's micromanaging business model and wanted to implement a more laissez-faire method for the SNES-CD.

See, to do business with Nintendo, you had to give them an arm and a leg, pay ridiculous licensing fees and sell your soul to Pan, the goat god. Sony thought that continuing that way would embitter third party developers who would have to pay for expensive chipsets from the hardware developer. CD was meant to circumvent that need. See: N64's v PS's third party libraries.

>>2294001
but anon, that future is now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Vita_card#Game_card

>>2298018
Obviously you don't know the story about Beta vs VHS. It's all about influence and nothing about data storage.

>>2298873
>Vita
>Future is now.

Looks like the future is now dead, buddy.

>>2298879
>Beta vs VHS.
>all about influence

>>2298892
Eh, different anon. It's a pity the Vita gets the treatment it does, hardware wise it's a glorious handheld with a battery that last forever.

>>2298751
This

>>2298908
the fuck are you on about everyone knows betamax was the superior format

If cartridge could store data up to 20gb, it would kick the shit out of cds, dvds and blurays because carts load faster than cds.

>>2298946
That's correct. You're overlooking the costs, though, the more data a cart holds the more expensive it is to make.

>>2298949
Not if the "cartridge" were a proprietary form of flash memory rather than having extra chipsets. Something like SD cards. It's the chips that make them cost a fuckload. That's why Sony prevailed while Nintendidn't. N64 was more powerful and lacked load times yet the games were prohibitively expensive to produce due to a combination of licensing fees AND Nintendo being the sole distributors of the chips necessary to make the cartridges. The combination of these two errors made third party developers shy away from N64 and turn to the much cheaper PS and Saturn, both of which had quite a number of third party games.
Around 25-30% of N64 games are either first party or second party (IE companies that produced games at the time only for the first party, like Rare for Nintendo) compared to 17-20% for Saturn and 16-17% for Playstation.
Now, if we count the number of third party titles that are actually good, we get about 50% for Saturn and PS each and roughly 2% for N64 since the vast, vast, VAST majority of non-Nintendo games for that console suck donkey dick.

>>2298946
That kind of storage isn't even difficult to get, if you're willing to pay for it. SanDisk is making MicroSD cards that hold ten times that.
Optical discs are a lot cheaper, though, and so far they've been sufficient for video games.
No telling what will happen if games keep getting bigger.

>>2298996
>No telling what will happen if games keep getting bigger.
I'd imagine an evil HDDVD will stomp through downtown Tokyo destroying buildings until a good blueray controlled by an 11-year-old kid with some bizarre connection to the story will fight off the evil HDDVD before sinking back into the dark recesses of its repose, secure in the fact that justice had once again prevailed. Until next time. There's always a next time. When the cycle will repeat in the next excitingly formulaic episode. This usually happens once every seven days, except for the off season.

Of course, no one in between will lament or even bat an eye about the lives lost in those collapsing buildings.

>>2299007
>no one in between will lament or even bat an eye about the lives lost in those collapsing buildings.

If you don't see them, it didn't happen.

>>2293796
format was already well established by the pcengine. which is why phillips and sony were looking to get into the vidya market in the first place.

>>2293796
That's not how tech works. Early adopters may fail or succeed, but this doesn't change the fact that technology WILL be adopted one day regardless.
Cartridges were expensive, had small capacity, and production of custom chips for carts was too expensive - removing biggest advantage carts were holding over other memory storage.

>>2301774
>production of custom chips for carts was too expensive
production of custom chips for CDs is less expensive?