/vr/ - Retro Games

I wish SNES had the sand lions. I still usually choke at the end of level 3, where you need double to shoot the shit on the ceiling during the miniboss before it swarms you, and laser right after so you can actually hit the main boss before it dies of old age.

>>2278451
Well you see what happened was japanese arcade players complained that Gradius 1,2 were too easy for counterstops. KONAMI listened and to this, yet to this day the beast that is GradiusIII has yet to be counterstopped.

Not enough proper play testing. The level designers were their own play testers and they obviously wouldn't have any problem with the stages they worked on, so yeah...

>>2278760
Arcade games in Japan are location tested. This is not true. What happened was that the Gradius 1,2 players found them too easy to counterstop hence KONAMI unleashed this beast which has yet to this day been toppled.

Try to play through the game underpowered. It makes it much easier.

>>2278771
errr not really
yea know of the rank bullshit

>>2278829
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42968
Come on, just look at those comparison shots.

>>2278765
>KONAMI unleashed this beast which has yet to this day been toppled.
It was actually counterstopped recently by a japanese player.

Pardon my ignorance, what's a counterstop?

>>2278834
I'm PRETTY sure rank goes up on its own over time.

>>2280103
Getting max points. The point counter will literally stop, generally in the ~100M range (although that generally depends on the game).

>>2278765
>KONAMI unleashed this beast which has yet to this day been toppled.
Great 1cc run here on the ps2 port (arcade perfect) with all slowdown switched off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC7A3iIdAwg

>no continues
>extra credits just start a new game

what the fuck

>>2282461
Probably a way to prevent buy-in continues, a cultural no-no in Japanese arcades which tend to have long lines for games.

>>2282461
>implying you can last 10 seconds with no powerups anyway

>>2280175
>the bubble stage
man what the fuck

>>2283207
>the ice blocks stage
man WHAT THE FUCK

>>2280175
>that bubble stage
>that ice block stage
>that fire stage
>regenerating walls
>that boss rush
>that tension
>that surgical precision

Whoever made this run is a god among men.

>>2283298
There are what we live for. To see such demi-gods thrive.

>>2280175
Dang, I don't know shmups but that game looks insane. That is some ridiculous skill.

Stage 3 boss is actually the first real massive wall of difficulty because it's bullshit even though he makes it look easy with the time out method it really isn't.

>>2278451
Lol Gradius III isn't hard at all for a shmup. Hell it's not even that hard for Gradius. I'd love to see your reaction to Gaiares.

>>2278451
Git gud. Its nothing special for shmups to be hard as fuck. Just not a genre for csuals, hence why it sadly died out.

>>2283549
Woah woah WOAH, guys, we got ourselves a badass over here.

>>2283549
>Gradius III isn't hard at all for a shmup.
Try arcade version not the pleb snes one.

>>2283549
>I'd love to see your reaction to Gaiares.
Gaiares is as hard as your average Cho Aniki, get off your high horse faggot.

>>2283549
Go to bed Jamie Bunker.

>>2283551
There's hard like Truxton, where hard implies actual hard game design, and then there's hard like Gradius III, where hard implies hard due to bad game design. And don't you fucking dare imply Gradius III has good game design. Compared to Salamander G3's design is nothing short of abysmal.

>>2283587
>Gaiares is as hard as your average Cho Aniki

I'd like a semi-hard shmup that relies entirely on reflex and not on memorization / trial & error

>>2283613
great response m8

>>2283596
Nothing wrong with the design of Gradius III. You ar just butthurt that you suck at it.

>>2283614
Every game relies on memorization to some extend, but if you are really good, you easily can 1cc even shmups like R-Type on your first playthrough. You just have to be very good and know the game mechanics.

I find R-Type Leo has a very nice difficulty and gameplay though. It doesn't rely as much on memorization as the other R-Types but is still really challenging.

>>2283629
Losing all of your powerups in a level which doesn't give you any chances to progress without the use of power-ups is not good design m8.

Ah

NOW it's a shmup thread

>>2283631
Maybe the game should just carry you to the end without you having to do anything. That would be like the perfect game in your eyes.

>>2283631
Of course it's ok design to lose power ups when dying. You are just too casual for it.
Also, as long as you are able to get one speed up you are always able to progress.

I personally rather prefer a non-power up gameplay where you have your weapons right from the beginning of the stage and can chose and switch between them, but losing power ups is nothing special.

>>2283631
>Losing all of your powerups in a level which doesn't give you any chances to progress without the use of power-ups is not good design m8.

Aaaaand the video posted in this very thread proves you wrong, multiple times.

>>2283639
>that leap in logic

>>2283640
>Of course it's ok design to lose power ups when dying
Obviously. But in-game, the level difficulty either should decrease as a result of that, or at the very least should throw the power-up's back at you right after re-spawning. Any other take (i.e. a vanilla start) results in masochism.

>>2283641
Aaaaand the video posted in this very thread just demonstrates that Gradius III is hard due to shitty game design, and not because of actual elaborate game design.

>>2283643
>Aaaaand the video posted in this very thread just demonstrates that Gradius III is hard due to shitty game design

This level of denial and butthurt is amazing, have a pity reply.

>>2283648
Great post dude. I really, really appreciate it.

>>2283650
You're welcome, you were a good teacher after all.

>>2283643
>the level difficulty either should decrease
Not really... Shmups are just often very hard games and often even designed to get played through without dying or at lest taking cedits. I like hard games especially if they expect you to almost ironman them.

>throw the power-up's back at you right after re-spawning
I really dislike it when games do this. It just makes the powerups less valuable and meaningless imo.
You basically just have to pick up a couple of options once and then can keep them for th rst of the game. It's just stupid and makes the part where being able to pick them up in the first place redundant.

>>2283596
>Gradius III
>bad game design
Only if you're a casual.

At the same time, considering it good/acceptable game design means that you have autism.

The whole situation ends up as a no-no scenario, at least for me.

>>2283658
It is good game design. It is just obviously pretty old school so of course it has flaws.

>>2283614
>I'd like a semi-hard shmup that relies entirely on reflex and not on memorization / trial & error
Try Armed Police Batrider.

>>2283596
Oh look another clueless speaker , salamander has some pretty big issues.

>>2283643
>Aaaaand the video posted in this very thread just demonstrates that Gradius III is hard due to shitty game design, and not because of actual elaborate game design.
And yet the guy manages to beat it which is a massive achievement so why can't you just celebrate that? Because you're a spastic who can't clear shit is why.

what is THE HARDEST shmup OF ALL TIME

>>2283662
>It is good game design.
For the most part but there are issues that all great g3 players mention, namely the stage 3 boss and the cube rush.

>>2283667
>the guy manages to beat it
>dies a bunch of times
Nah he's a casual.

>>2283671
Recovery in Gradius games IS the highest display of skill lrn2gradius noobian.

>>2283670
Like I said, thes egames are old school as fuck, and were developed in a very short amount of time.
However, their gameplay is still miles ahead of 99% of shit coming out nowadays.

>>2283671
If you are trying to reach highscores, dying is mandatory, retard.
No shame in dying, as long as you can 1cc them.

>>2283674
I agree but Gradius 2 had none of 3s issues which are the result of both rushing the product and going full fuck you in difficulty because to many people cleared 2. I still play G2 and Gaiden alot with 3 being the only one i can't clear at this time.

>>2283674
>tfw old-school shmup basically means any non-danmaku shnmup
Not that I mind, but actually fuck it, I DO mind.

Games like Gradius, R-Type and others are in a league of their own, they're the sort of shmup that is less about dodging bullets and more about avoiding obstacles. You battle not the artillery fired by your opponent, but battle the stage itself. Lumping them with other shmups seems misleading to me.

Anyone dare come up with a title for this style of shmups?

>>2283678
Dying lessens the realistic experience.

>>2283683
>Anyone dare come up with a title for this style of shmups?

Obstaclemaku

>>2283669
Ikaruga

>>2283682
I can't judge this personally cause I haven't Gradius games enough yet (I'm more of an R-Type pilot), but I heard from people who 1cced them that Gradius 2 actually was the hardest Gradius, but for the wrong reasons, like partly bad game design.

>>2283683
I agree, Gradius and R-Type are in a league of their own. Thunder Force is also pretty damn based as a series.

I find that hori shmups in general are better due to having better level design for the vast majority. Vertical shmups are just way too often just about shooting stuff and dodging stuff. Nothing else. No real level design, just pretty backgrounds. Can be really fun too though.

However, there are also exceptions, like Ikaruga for example. Ikaruga is vertical shmups done right imo, because it has great level desing were every encounter is like a puzzle. At the same time also hori shmups can be danmaku without great level design, like Progear for example. But Progear is also another example that also Bullet Hell can be cool and fun.

I think you just can't generalise it. Thre are great games in every sub genere of shmups, and each deserve their respect.

>>2283683
>Anyone dare come up with a title for this style of shmups?
fun

>>2283684
I agree, but I just imagine that dying is actually just getting hit and having your weaponry malfunctioning.
These games are not that realisti to begin with anyway.

Speaking of power-ups, Fantasy Zone's an STG I've been playing that has a clever way of denying them. If you don't keep a certain quantity of coinage stocked prior to dying, the shop balloon won't appear to give you necessary engine, bomb, and projectile upgrade choices. It should be 20K coins or above once you've gotten to your final life-up tier in the shop.

>>2278451
Even though this is a git gud situation, if it's an arcade game, you can guarantee any company will intentionally spike difficult to mine coins from people's pockets. It's an easy answer.

>>2283703
>Gradius 2 actually was the hardest Gradius, but for the wrong reasons, like partly bad game design.

Nah not even close Gradius 2 is comfy difficulty wise so either they are shit players or they meant 3. I 1cc G2 regularly on very hard dip switch setting and then get power raped by the second loop which yes is genuinely evil so maybe they meant that.

>>2283665
>salamander has some pretty big issues
like? (yes I'm clueless)

>>2283723
>like? (yes I'm clueless)
It's just very trolly in the later stages.

>>2283723
Not him, but I agree, Salamander is pretty bad.
It just all feels very unbalanced there is no real grip in the gameplay.
The level design is bad, the enemy designs unoriginal etc.
It's still a nice shmup but nothing special, apart from pretty graphics for its time.

>>2283736
Salamander 2 on the other hand is very underrated and a great game,

>>2283752
Actually Salamander 2 was the only one I played yet.
But I found it kinda boring, at least compared to the original Gradius games.
It's also way too short. Nice colors though.

It just obviously tries to make a mix out of Gradius and R_type but totally fails to bring what R_Type actually makes great, while losing cool aspects of Gradius games at the same time.
The level maps for example are not so big like Gradius for example, and at the same time, it's not as punishing and chess-like like R-Type games, where one little mistake means your death, but rather more streamlined.

I find X-Multiply to be a much better mix out of R-Type and Gradius.

>>2283771
>>2283752
Actually what I disliked the most about the game was how fast it played.
It was quite cool, but I just like more slowly paced shooters.
To me it felt faster than normal Gradius games.

>>2278451
>What Konami were thinking when they made this game holy shit.
Something along the lines of "Ha Ha Insert more shekeru!"