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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 526 KB, 640x480, Stony Banjo.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2281872 No.2281872 [Reply] [Original]

Is it me or Banjo-Tooie's level design is way more confusing than BK ones?

I am frequently frustrated at the zoomed-in camera and having to recur to C^ because the screen feels so busy/claustrophobic.

>> No.2281940

I think saying Tooie is bad is an epic meme, much like people who say yellow devil is an impossible boss. Someone on the Internet had that legitimate opinion and now every 10 year old who has seen a thumbnail for an LP of a game on YouTube has the same epic gaming opinion.

Seriously, there's three different threads up about >Le Tooie is a shit game

>> No.2281949

>>2281872
I think it's due to the different zones/cells in each world.

In kazooie the first level was mumbo's mountain and there were only two entrances to other cells.
One to mumbo's shack and another to the termite mound.

In tooie the first level had a lot of separate cells.
These separate cells are very unintuitive compared to one large cell to explore.

>> No.2282217

the whole game is way to over designed and lacks all the magic that made BK work

>> No.2282328

There was one instance I can recall from BK that you needed an ability from a later level to obtain a jiggy in an earlier level (Running shoes from Desert to finish the race in Freezy Peak). One time you couldn't complete a level in one sitting...excluding Click Clock Woods, because that's the whole point of the level with the seasons.

I have no idea how many instances there are of the same or similar thing in BT, but it's significantly more, with abilities from the end of the game being required for very early stages.

The worlds were fun to explore, but they were too big. in BK, the levels were fairly dense with collectables. BT felt like the world was filled with side-collectables to complete a larger reward.

It was good if you liked platformers at the time, but it doesn't really hold up today. The atmosphere is also really strange, and I can't put my finger on why. It might actually be the music.

>> No.2282585
File: 62 KB, 640x480, 06.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2282585

>>2282328
I think it's the lack of a panoramic view more than anything, you don't get to see the whole stage at once like you do in BK.

Bubblegloop Swamp in BK had a bit of this confusion because of the similar looking quadrants surrounded by walls, and Mad Monster Mansion caused a bit of camera conflict at some points because the camera angle was locked.

But yeah, the non-linear gameplay and 1000 different game modes starting on stage 1 makes the soup a bit more all over the place.

I enjoy it, though.

>> No.2282589

>>2281940
All the rare platformers are actually terrible.
People cling to them because
>Mascot characters
>No other good games on N64

>> No.2282632

I've been telling myself I'll replay it ever since 2001. After a billion false starts since then I think it's time to accept that it'll never happen.

>> No.2282750

>>2282632
What sort of false starts? Once in I'm pretty focused.

>> No.2282805

I don't know, I think it may have been the lack of memorable landmarks and the more circular design of the levels? In retrospect, most of the BK levels were either square or circular, but elevation differences and more memorable landmarks disguised this or made it irrelevant. Playing BT 10+ years after the original remains one of the biggest disappointments of my video game playing life, right up there with Pokemon Yellow and TLoZ Minish Cap. It was inferior to the original in every way, including the godlly and nigh unapproachable music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfgZOTuu6J0

>> No.2283012

>>2281872
Tooie was definitely a bit more mazy, likely thanks to the metroidvania elements.

Still far better than DK64's level design, though.

>> No.2283041

>>2282750
I had the same thing!
I think around witchy world my interest starts to wane and by jolly roger lagoon I've checked out entirely.
I don't think I've ever played the fire and ice level or the cloud level.

>> No.2283059
File: 59 KB, 500x343, RAYMAN 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2283059

>>2282589
Oh, really?

>> No.2283060
File: 69 KB, 410x300, Rocket_Robot_on_Wheels_Cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2283060

>>2282589
Don't mind me. Just a fantastic 3rd party physics-based collectathon.

>> No.2283078

>>2282589
>people actually believe this

>> No.2283084

>>2283078
>people disagree
>people are not the same person

>> No.2283205
File: 56 KB, 640x480, 07.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2283205

OP here.

I disagree with the soundtrack being inferior in BT, but I'm still in Witchyworld, I listen to BK's OST frequently, so let's see if the quality keeps up. So far it seems it has.

>>2282589
I don't suppose you could say the Banjo franchise has the best gameplay mechanics, but the world/atmosphere has enough appeal to keep you interested in solving all its mysteries, besides all the variety. It's not like - say - Crash Bandicoot where gameplay is way tighter but there is little exploration (2.5D platforming). Nor is it like Super Mario 64, with parkour mechanics focused on daredevil acrobatics.
It's a bit more slow paced than these, but nevertheless pretty fun.

>>2283059
Now Rayman 2 was really bad, too linear for a 3D platformer, so it had neither tight controls from a Bandicoot game nor exploration value like BK/Mario.

>>2283012
I agree, DK64 made me feel completely lost back then, couldn't enjoy it in spite of really wanting to, because of the characters.

>> No.2283226

>>2282589

The first Banjo Kazooie was pretty damn fun when I played through it forever ago. Don't really understand what could have been so god awful about it that makes you hate it so?

>> No.2283231
File: 47 KB, 248x310, favelito.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2283231

>>2283205
op viado

>> No.2283314
File: 63 KB, 640x480, fgsfds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2283314

For fuck's sake, how do I get rid of this fucking message console? Ruined my bling.

>>2283231
Sopa.

>> No.2283361

>>2282750
I don't think I ever made it through Glittergulch a second time.
Played through BK dozens of times on the other hand.

>> No.2285628

>>2283361
Did you own both games?

>> No.2285639

Does overclocking your n64 help with the lag at all?

>> No.2285662

>>2285628
I've owned both since the 90s

>> No.2286171
File: 148 KB, 1600x749, 15.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2286171

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use a map for Banjo-Tooie?

I had to sketch that Shoot-the-poo in the sewer zone at Grunty's Industries. Which is by the way a pretty confusing level, but I'm getting the hang of it slowly.

>> No.2286175

>>2286171
Cool map, bro.

>> No.2286469
File: 87 KB, 640x480, 18.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2286469

>>2286175
Thanks, dude. Thanks to it I got all 20 clinkers shot in about 120 seconds.

>> No.2286476

>>2286469
that bubble is supposed to reflect the framebuffer in a round curvature
it doesnt work in emulators

>> No.2286480

>>2286469
id comment more on you're thread on 55ch if i hadnt got banned for shitposting :^)

>> No.2286485
File: 644 KB, 800x1000, The Courtier.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2286485

>>2286476

Of course he's using an emulator. How the hell do you think he's getting such clean screengrabs?

Rare games are notorious for giving HLE-based N64 emulators (currently all but one) fits; they used completely custom microcode in their games after tiring of Nintendo's incessant bullshit games surrounding their documentation of the feature.

>> No.2286502

>>2286485
calm the fuck down, nerd
I just find it interesting how that effect is used for something so minor just once in the game and then ever again

actually rare games are some of the better emulated out there

>> No.2286503

>This game has too much metroid style exploration, returning to previous levels and one off gimmicks, so it's not as good as the first one
>Literally saying that the game has too much content so it's bad

Are you guys trolling or what? What the fuck did the original game have that was so good? The platforming in these games is a goddamned joke because you have a hover jump and a lack of bottomless pits, and the platforming is all this game has besides "puzzles" that all amount to ground pounding switches, shooting eggs at a thing or fighting some embarrassingly easy enemies

>> No.2286505
File: 192 KB, 640x480, Glide64_BANJO_TOOIE_11.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2286505

BEHOLD! The correctly emulated bubble effect.

>> No.2286515

>>2286503
kazoomba used a lot of towering structures and fall damage, hazardous floor and that fucking shark to punish you and keep you from going to places you werent supposed to be
pretty much every world had at least one kind of floor hazard

>> No.2286516

people whined about kazimba note system
thing is, tooie might seem harder at first but it had zero punishment for dying or playing badly so the whole game is just one fetch quest after another
the only time you can truly lose at it is in minigames

>> No.2286520

>>2286515
>>2286516
but the hazards only did one damage and the game lavished health on you in the first game, so it didn't matter

not to mention that in most levels you can fucking fly and instantly defeat all platforming

now conker 64 was a game that had platforming that meant something, if you missed a jump you were fucking dead most of the time

>> No.2286521
File: 855 KB, 1256x3296, 2015-03-13 as 06.10.26.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2286521

>>2286505
That was totally worth $8,000.

>> No.2286526

>>2286520
yeah sure whatever
they are both pointless kiddie games with no replay value

>> No.2286530 [DELETED] 

>>2286521
8k just to fix the fucking framebuffers
there's one born every minute

>> No.2286531

. >>2286521
>>2286521
8k just to fix the fucking framebuffers
there's one retard born every minute

>> No.2286534
File: 1.27 MB, 900x1350, An Ancient Madness.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2286534

>>2286502

You're full of shit, m8. All the Rare N64 games are difficult to emulate.

>nerd

Kill yourself immediately.

>> No.2286537

>>2286534
I see your new here nerd

>> No.2286538

I wouldn't say Tooie's design is more "confusing" so much as it's more ambitious and sprawling. With Kazooie, everything you need is either in the level or found beforehand and there's virtually nothing in the way of wasted space. Tooie's worlds are much bigger as well as interconnected, which is cool in concept but results in having a much more complicated flow compared to Kazooie, namely in regards to an obscene amount of backtracking which wasn't an issue at all in Kazooie. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but in terms of focused level design Tooie kind of is a clusterfuck compared to how tight Kazooie's design is.

>> No.2286541

>>2286537

>shitpostingloudly.jpg

>> No.2286542 [DELETED] 

>>2286534
I honestly can't think of any N64 rare game that isn't beatable. Could you name one?

>> No.2286545

>>2286541
stop pursuing, dude

>> No.2286546

>>2286534
Yes they were but Jabo figured them all out back in the day. I honestly can't think of any N64 rare game that isn't beatable on emulators. Do you know of any?

>> No.2286547
File: 711 KB, 1024x428, The Skies Are Fouled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2286547

>>2286545

No.

>> No.2286548

>>2283060

Great taste acknowledged.

>> No.2286549

>>2286547
you win, I'm leaving the thread

>> No.2286553

>>2286546

>beatable
>the same as being emulated well
>fuckin' JABO

You use ZSNES and like it, don't you?

Perfect Dark, BTW.

>> No.2286556

>>2286553
Good point, PD is missing a lot of textures, screen effects, even the menus don't work properly.
That game was basically a tech demo for the N64.

>> No.2286568
File: 336 KB, 455x640, Brother To Mighty Zeus And God Of The Dead- Hades.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2286568

>>2286556

Most of Rare's games demonstrate just how godly they were as a company. You could even give them the pile of overcomplicated pricey bullshit that was the N64 (I say this even as someone who has very fond memories of that console) and they would still shit out gold with regularity.

So of course Nintendo had to treat them with barely-concealed contempt.

>> No.2287048
File: 26 KB, 670x670, thisbait.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2287048

>>2282589

>> No.2287076

>>2281872
terrydactyland is confusing as fuck

>> No.2287128

>>2286568
Too bad all that amazing tech demo from them was packed with shooter material, they lured the wrong dudes to buy their company.