/vr/ - Retro Games

holy fuck git gud. You can go fast once you acquire skill scrubbie.

game is set up so theres always one fast level followed by a slow level
Green hill -> marble -> spring year -> labyrinth -> star night -> scrap brain

also yeah the fast marketing thing is really stupid
the game aint even that fast

Git gud faggot.

Also go back to /v/ with this blatant console war baiting.

Had both SNES and Genesis as a kid and loved both SMW and Sonic 1.

Sonic 1 was shorter, but more difficult to finish because of it (you had to do it in one sitting, which can be done in about an hour, if you get good).

The lenght was alright, remember every zone has 3 full levels.

The game wouldn't have been the success it was with just marketing, the game was legit good and still is. Niggas just hating on it because no spindash and sucking at going fast at marble zone or labyrinth.

kicking dead horses much?

Relevant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDsz1NFBJw

Why do so many retards spout this since that RLM video? You don't need to repeat what e-celebs tell you. Especially when they're DSP tier.

>>2279618
>Can't even figure out how to curl into a ball

I bet you think Egoraptor's Ocarina video is insightful too.

Kids in 1991 went into this game after watching GOTTAGOFAST commercials and fucking appreciated it for what it was and loved it.

No one today can play this game for the first time without saying "B-but I thought I would get to go fast!"

What went wrong?

>herp
>derp
>shlurp

>>2279618
this isnt very good, they mostly talk about marketing and they're right, but their points on gameplay are way off

>>2279618
Wow, they sure are reaching in that video.

Also they are apparently terrible at games.

As much as I think "you can't go fast!" is a stupid criticism for Sonic games, I do agree that Sonic 1's level design wasn't all there yet. 2 and 3 were masterpieces of level design around Sonic's skill set. Even CD isn't that bad.

I've been replaying 1, 2 and CD with the remastered editions that came out for mobile phone and I honestly think I appreciate them even more than when I was a kid. With my phone I can just mindlessly run around levels whenever I have a free moment and I'm always discovering new paths and physics shortcuts. And I've been playing these games for fucking 25 years

>>2279635
I guess there are plenty of faster scrolling games out there now? Sanic 2 raised up the fast threshold by quite a lot.

>>2279619

Because few people think to return to games that have been canonized as good and ask why. Sonic's popularity was driven by his "mascot with attitude" and the Genesis's marketing campaign, but it doesn't hold up against modern scrutiny, which brings into question whether it was ever good.

It doesn't follow through on its design premise. It lacks the complexity of Super Mario Brothers, a game from years before that logically should have informed Sonic's development, and when held up against Mario World, it's nearest contemporary and competitor, it's woefully underwhelming.

>>2279641
They took literally 20 minutes to figure out how to open grates in one of the Arkham games.

>>2279643
Bubsy the Bobcat has faster scrolling than Sonic iirc.

What I meant was, it's not that people are disappointed by the scrolling speed, it just seems that everyone who tries to play a classic Sonic game for the first time today has this expectation that they can just hold right and succeed, and then get frustrated when they actually run into obstacles. Like what the fuck, were you expecting an endless runner iPhone game?

>>2279618
Here's a better take on SANIC SPEEEEED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW-nMRZGpgA

>>2279652
Sanic CD did the exploring aspect pretty well
then again if you ask me World was underwhelming compared to mario 3

>>2279596
/b/ /v/ is calling you troll.

>>2279642
>>2279643
I agree with the criticism of speed/level design in 1 but yeah, 2 is near perfect. It's still the greatest Sonic game in my mind. Makes for some really interesting speedruns:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-sXIJnyhQ

>>2279596

>kills you if you go fast
no it doesn't

>levels meander in nonsensical way
they're linear as fuck

>basically have to plod along slowly
yuji naka or someone admitted that when they were making sonic 1 they were unsure if a game would appeal to people on speed alone so they added two slower stages. one was just a regular platforming level of average quality for the time (marble zone) and one had a new interesting mechanic just for that level (labyrinth zone). in all other levels sanic can gotta go fast

>extremely short
1991

>This game just isn't very well thought out or well designed.
physics engine is insane for 1991

>Compared to Mario world, it's clear Sonic was just a tech demo made to sell the Genesis to kids.
mario world is considerably more rushed and half-baked in an attempt to sell consoles than sonic 1

>>2279652
>It lacks the complexity of Super Mario Brothers,

Are you serious? Take a look at the image on the left here. You can ignore the right side as it's irrelevant here.

Sonic does not have as large a skillset as Mario, but the great genius of his games is that his abilities are incorporated seamlessly into the momentum of the stages he explores. Mastering Sonic is a physics puzzle. As a fan of both Sonic and Mario games, I can confidently say that Mario has a much lower skill ceiling. A somewhat skilled Mario player can clear a huge amount of obstacles in a single bound. Performing that kind of maneuver with sonic takes a lot more skill.

>>2279652
>modern scrutiny

What modern scrutiny? "I can't just run without obstacles"? No wonder modern games are so dumbed down.

>It lacks the complexity of Super Mario Brothers

It's about a hundred times more complex if you actually play it right and try to find all the alternative paths.

>>2279665
Sanic works best when it's being speedran.
Speed is supposed to be a reward, not something you take for granted.
And even if you suck at the game you can still experience going fast by unlocking super sanic.

>>2279669
>physics engine is insane for 1991

The physics engine for Sonic is so good not even Sega can replicate it

>>2279670
Come on, Generations doesn't really play like that at all.

>>2279652
>It lacks the complexity of Super Mario Brothers

I hope you're joking.

Also way to parrot the opinions of Youtubers who can't even figure out you're supposed to curl into a ball in the game.

>>2279676
they did it fine with sonic advance then just decided to throw it away with sonic rush

>>2279656
>fatty neckbeard trying to sound smart
Yeah, no. And he has the same problem as the other video, he focuses on the marketing of the game instead of the game itself. I don't care if you think Sonic has an attitude or if the game isn't as awesome as Super Mario World (which is a false dichotomy ), it's still a great game.

Why would you expect to go fast on your first playthrough? You need to familiarize yourself with the levels for that. Not that it's particularly rewarding, though. It just feels like you're on autopilot with some very general idea of what to do.

>>2279681

>Mario
>flat but multiple paths
>8 bit console

>sonic
>winding levels
>only one path
>16 bit, and made years after SMB

?

I've noticed a trend on /v/ with more modern games, I think it applies to old Sonic games too.

Games in which you are still allowed to complete the stage while playing badly often get large numbers of critics, because people play through them entirely without ever understanding there is a more fluid way to play.

>>2279689
>It lacks the complexity of Super Mario Brothers, a game from years before

?

>>2279687

Because the game was marketed entirely on speed. Imagine if somebody made an FPS but you had to spend 90 percent of the game using Melee

>>2279691
You're absolutely right, see the reaction to something like The Wonderful 101 or even God Hand. It's sad that skill based games like that get panned because it just further leads to games getting dumbed down.

>>2279694
But you can and should go fast, there are no lies involved. It's just that going fast isn't your right, it's something you earn with practice. Most games from the era weren't meant to be completed as soon as you pick them up and then never played again like modern ones.

>>2279665
I love how they're shit talking him, "that was rubbish, you novice!"

sanic is like skateboarding, you plan, set yourself up and build momentum to go fast and pull off way-past-cool tricks

>>2279656
He makes some valid points, but he also likes to repeat them over and again throughout the entire video.

play 2 it's the best 1 is kind of shit

>>2279670

this nigga knows what he's talking about.

I don't get people. Nobody bitched about "but sonic is about fast, if I can't speedrun the game with no effort it's shit" until a year or two ago.

>>2279781
Exactly, speed was a feature, the speed marketing was a big part of demonstrating the capabilities of the 16-bit Sega console itself.
There was no great emphasis on Sonic going fast all the time, just that he could to pull off impressive loops and big jumps and shit when needed. It was always a kick ass platformer with some opportunities to go fast. Not a "push right, gotta go fast to win" game.

>>2279781
Some people feel the need to repeat what ignorant Youtubers say. I don't know why.

>>2279805
>sees pic

Holy shit, Dwayne, is that you?!

>>2279736
i would actually say that 1 is probably the best and 2 is the worst of the 3. 1 focused really heavily on momentum but with the addition of the spindash in 2 you could get momentum for free. in 3/sonic and knuckles they at least appear to have noticed this and took a few steps to place more value on momentum again (lower speed cap when rolling than running, direction of the levels change more often, more jumps you have to aim at a specific vertical point, etc.)

>>2279781

Because it fits the new narrative. "New Sonic games aren't good" has now become "sonic was never good."

>>2279805
> a "push right, gotta go fast to win" game.

This is exactly what Sonic Adventures was and it's the worst game in the series. That is If "press forward to win" can be called a game.

>Someone says Sonic has shitty level design
>They use Sonic 1 as they're example

Every fucking time. Everyone knows that Sonic 1 was pretty poorly designed, hence why people rarely cite it as their favorite. In Sonic 2 onwards Team Sonic had fallen into their groove and the quality of level design sky-rocketed.

though you have to admit

1 is shit compared to 2 and 3

>>2279654
The last 10 years of people saying "AYY SONIC IS HOLD RIGHT TO WIN, AMIRITE" has taken its toll.

>>2279847
I enjoy the shit out of Sonic in SA1, or at least parts of it (it's legitimately not hold forward to win, but the level design is hilariously bad at times (who let Windy Valley even happen, and that's probably the closest to "hold-forward-to-win" in the game).

Seriously, SA1's big problems were really shit level design and poorly managing the other 5 characters.
SA2 might have a billion problems, but for the most part, its Sonic (and Shadow) levels got better. Some of them might be more linear, but they're better designed.

>labyrinth zone

sonic 1 was good but they were still really figuring out what the hell they were doing. They perfected the level design in 2 and 3

ITT: /v/ arrived

>>2279670
don't really agree with that pic much

3D sonic games had scripted speedlines since it couldn't into 3D speed properly but modern 2D sonic usually don't have that problem (at least not in the advanced games).

>>2279959
I never played the 2nd two sonic advance games, but I thought the first one did a fantastic job of doing the genesis gameplay right. Had good physics and (mostly) good level design. There were definitely some questionable parts where level layout makes you think you can take a downward path and it just ends up being an endless pit 2 feet below you though.

It's kinda unfair how much the GBA games are disregarded. People kept saying "hurr durr modern sonic is crap I wish they'd go back to their roots" during that time period with flops ranging like shadow, heroes, and 06, but during the same period these games were releasing too.

>>2279961
yeah I always had a problem with that

People kept talking about how modern sonic games sucked and how they should go back to genesis era yet I never hear a single mention of the Advance games which plays pretty similar to them. I hear about Rush, generations and Episode 4 sometimes but never the advanced games.

You're supposed to play the game over and over hundreds or thousands of times until you memorize every last spawn point and can speed through the zones like a pro.

I mean, shit, you don't think those bullet hell players are playing on reaction speed, do you? All non-competitive games are mastered by rote.

>>2279613
>also yeah the fast marketing thing is really stupid the game aint even that fast

Back in 1991, coming fresh off of the NES era, Sonic was faster than practically everything but arcade games. Plus it was extremely colourful and had some very impressive eye catching details too (the parallax scroll, those faux-3d elements like the vectorized palm trees or the spike bridge that was spinning on its z axis, etc).

>>2279982
true, although I there's definitely a "think on your feet" philosophy and you don't really need to memorize everything so much as you need to be aware of the patterns in gameplay and know what to expect up ahead.

But there are certain areas you just can't speed through even if you have everything perfectly memorized. Labyrinth zone.

>>2279982
You don't even have to play it like a pro. The ring system guarantees you're pretty much safe the entire time.

>>2279953
Yeah it's pretty sad to see. We've had a lot of Youtube e-celeb, shit opinions and blatant trolling threads recently.

>>2279953
/v/ was always "here" you mong. /vr/ is just the subdivision of /v/ for specifically talking about old games because its a more niche topic that wouldn't work on the busier main /v/

>>2279990
Beating a game and mastering a game are two very different things...

>>2279940
But anon, that music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j763zxQfrfc

>>2279990
Not in Sonic 1, lots of pits and spikes to kill people who suck at platformers.

Now, I don't even think Sonic 1 is that good, but that's mainly because Sonic 2 is just so much more fun to play.

OP is kind of a faggot, and so is aidsmoby.

>>2279682
Sonic Advance had godawful level design though, and the small screen (and thus smaller viewable area) made that even worse. Like half the springs in the game throw you onto spikes, or the speedways lead into spike walls, shit like that. You can't dodge them unless you know they are there.

>>2279689
>>8 bit console

Those level screenshots are from the 8-bit Sonic games.

>>2279689
>Mario
>flat but multiple paths

The only "multiple paths" on the screenshot are the hidden levels (going down in a pipe, up on the bay leafs, or a warp zone). And you practically have to go from left to right throughout the entire game (except the water levels iirc).

>sonic
>only one path

There are lots of optional areas, and those aren't even the 16bit sonic maps... the Genesis sonic games had shitloads of vertical scrolling and alternate paths. You had to re-trace your path to gain momentum or to find another path so often. In sonic 1 and 2, anyway. I think 3 was way worse in that regard.

>>2280021
Even then sanic 1 gave you a lot of leeway.
The redletter guys edited the video to make it seem like the player was dying all the time but getting hit in a sanic game is no big deal. It's one of the easiest games ever.

>>2280026
It's make more sense to compare Sonic to Super Mario World, where most levels weren't particularly linear at all.

>>2280000
You know what he means. You'd have to be blind not to see a massive increase in shitposting and console war trolling compared to what we used to be like.

>>2279670
Needing more skill to pull off needlessly difficult jumps for the sake of having physics isn't necessarily good game design.

>>2280048
good design is entirely subjective

>>2280048
Okay. Can you explain how it isn't good game design?

>>2280051
Removing the trivial nature of something as important as jumping in a 2D platformer, coupled with a large amount of character inertia feels sloppy and much less satisfying to correctly achieve because you may feel like you were fighting the game and not the level in the game. Jumping shouldn't be hard to do, it should be the same enough to where the player gains a feel for it throughout the game and they can sense improvement once they've completed the game. The hard part of jumping should be the platform you're trying to get to, not the one you're jumping from.

>>2279691
Yeah, the idea that the player should be entitled to complete every game and every challenge first time is way too commonplace in the modern gaming community.

>>2280057
Are you fighting the game or is learning how to use momentum and get the optimum time the game's strength? I honestly think it's a matter of perspective rather than definitive.

>>2279681
That image is a terrible comparison though. Super Mario Bros was released in 1985 and Sonic the Hedgehog was released in 1991. Of course after 6 years of technological progression the latter game will be able to do stuff with its level design that the former could not do.

>>2280062
I'm sure perspective is playing a role, but it's hard to appreciate a physics engine when the most difficult platforming segments in the first 2 games are on flat segments where platforms to jump on are smaller than the amount of mid-jump compensation you can provide unless you anticipate to overshoot the platform every time. A really good case of jumping and knowing where you'll land, even on a single block, is Super Mario World, and because it was released later, I'll give sonic the benefit of the doubt for having limited understanding of precise platforming.

>>2280063
It was posted to refute this statement:
> It lacks the complexity of Super Mario Brothers, a game from years before

>>2280067

Give it up anon, these guys are just gonna move the goal posts anytime you shit on their preconceived notions.

>>2279596
I've never understood this "it kills you if you go fast" complaint. It's simple risk vs reward, common to almost every game ever. You have to find a balance between safety and maximum points.

>>2279596
You have to learn the level

It's funny that people complain about this game then go on to sing praises of shmups

>>2280071
And you thinking you winning with those puny rebutals? Just gome home kid, seriously

>>2280081
It holds some weight when the entire marketing system was showing the fast segments only to reveal how detrimental it is to do what the commercials showed.

>>2280081
If you consider going fast as something you have an inherent right to in the game then its constant traps and difficult segments that slow you down will seem like they're going against the core idea of the game. Also the first game punishes minor fucks up severely due to how hard it can be to gain more momentum.

>>2280090
Very often a different crowd. I don't think you'll hear a lot of the standard 'artificial difficulty' complaints from shmup fanboys. They were born in the trial-and-error, molded by it.

>>2279619

because he is trolling you

>>2280000
You clearly weren't here during the first few months when everyone were polite as butlers.

>>2280159
It's almost as if people stop being as friendly the less new something becomes! That happens on every new board ever in existence. Every fresh topic or subtopic starts 100% pure and starts to degrade. It's just entropy. It's nothing to do with the /v/ boogeyman.

>>2279652
Dude SERIOUSLY ! SHUT UP !

>>2280167

>t....they're talking about video games! Not CRT monitors! And it's not dicksucking nostalgic praise!
>better shout down the dissent!

>>>/v/

>>2280095
>It holds some weight when the entire marketing system was showing the fast segments only to reveal how detrimental it is to do what the commercials showed.

That is like saying that a fighting game is terrible because you can get beaten and lose, even though all the commercials said to "become the world champion martial artists!".

And despite all of that, Sonic 1 was still fucking fast AND looked incredibly good for the time. There was simply no game on the market, bar arcade hardware that was so fast while also having so great graphics and so advanced jump and momentum physics.

As for all the "can't go fast" arguments, going fast means you have to play faster, means you need way faster reflexes and decision making. So if you suck in any game that isn't Solitaire or Minesweeper, obviously you won't be able to go fast in Sonic 1. But then you also won't become the world warrior in Street Fighter, nor the best racer in "insert racing game", nor the space marine who saves Earth from an invasion, nor the fat Italian plumber who saves the blonde princess from Micromaster Godzilla and his force of rock star ensemble children.

>>2280162
While I don't completely agree wiit that it doesn't have NOTHING to do with people who frequent primarily /v/, I don't think it's that far off that some who do that and then behave here the same as they do there, I do agree with you with you otherwise.

What we can do is behave like would want other people to behave. I think it's just tiring to scroll past huge lumps of posts because they are either trolling or not actually saying nothing.

>>2280170
>Sonic's popularity was driven by his "mascot with attitude" and the Genesis's marketing campaign

No just shut up! You steering shit where it shouldn't. Sonic a genuine good game when it came out and that's it.
It still fun, still great and still hold up today as a good plateformer.

>>2280210

But it's absolutely true? Kid, were you even alive when it came out? Because judging by your grasp of English I'd say you weren't even alive then the Dreamcast came out.

>>2280213
True, but only in the US.

I don't even think Sonic games require you to know the level, at least not the Genesis/Mega Drive ones. You are pretty safe if you just have a rule of thumb to jump/roll through any unknown territory.

>>2280095
And yet the game, as well as the sequels, were hugely popular upon release. For some reason the only people being poisoned by marketing are people trying out the game now that it's 20+ years old.

>>2280404
It's revisionist history horse shit.

The one thing that. Others me most about Sonic 1 is the running speed cap when holding right. No matter how steep the slope is, if you hold right he will only run as fast as he does when you start running from a standstill. Why did they make the game like that? At least the other Sonics let you build up running speed while you hold right, and thankfully hacks and the new mobile version take away the speed cap.

>>2280646
>that. Others
Should be
>that bothers

Fucking iPad.

>>2279596
>encourages speed
>kills you if you go fast
Shut the fuck up.

>>2280091
>Just gome home kid, seriously

You had one job.

Sonic CD = Sonic 3 & Knuckles > Sonic 2 > Super Mario World 2 > Sonic > Super Mario World.
All good games, but Super Mario World was a disappointment to me even back in the day.

>>2279596

I love Super Mario World, but what the fuck?

>>2279596
3 levels per zone was excessive and repetitive.

>>2280401
>I don't even think Sonic games require you to know the level

They don't by any means. I'm convinced that people who complain about this "If I go fast I get hit by an enemy" crap either don't realize that, when jumping, the hit detection doesn't work like Mario (Where you can only hit enemies on their head -- Sonic can hit enemies in any position so long as he's in ball form. You can be right about to hit an enemy and as long as you're in the jumping animation, you'll kill said enemy) and are too afraid to try and jump at enemies on the side or are too lazy/dumb to just press the down button when they see an enemy, or jump when you see an obstacle, and you're given many, many frames of preparation before you come to collision with these obstacles. In Sonic 1 it's even easier since, unless you find the excruciatingly hidden speed shoes, your max running speed is quite a bit slower than in Sonic 2 and 3.

>>2280646
just hold down, and he'll roll into a ball with nearly limitless motion. There are some secrets that you can only reach that way, even. (like in that U-shaped pit in Spring Yard, where you can only run up the wall so much, but if you fall back and curl into a ball, you can propel yourself 6 times higher; and reach a hole in the wall with bonus items)

>>2281213
>Sonic can hit enemies in any position so long as he's in ball form.

Except for enemies covered in spikes, which you can only hit at certain locations. Like the caterpillars in Marble Garden (hate those things), the hit collision even fucks up sometimes and you lose rings even if you hit their heads.

>>2281474
Thanks for the tip, but I already know that rolling is a way to gain speed. I just wish you could gain speed while running and holding right too.

>>2281190
>3 levels per zone was excessive and repetitive.
Neo /v/ detected. Only neo /v/ complains about games being 'too long' or 'excessive'. Stick to COD kiddo.

>>2281190
>3 levels per zone was excessive and repetitive.

4 levels per world, with the last one always being a castle, was excessive and repetitive.

End this trend of sanic hate

>>2281761
Why on Earth are you bumping this then, stupid?

>>2281762
you can't sage anymore...

>>2279598
SMB is a game where you need skill to go fast.

Sonic's only trait is speed, and the first game is false advertisement.

Also some stages just plain don't fucking let you go fast. You get stuck solving block puzzles or crawling at a snails pace through water.

>>2279681
>dat master system labyrinth

bit of a late bump, but since the sms version got posted, its worthwhile to note that the 8bit games can't "go fast" like the 16bit can. the screen can only scroll up to 8 pixels per frame so its a bit iffy in the few parts where you should be able to break that limit - most notably right at the start where you get the speed shoes and launch off the ramp.

>>2281773
I think you can, it just doesn't show.

>>2280182
That's the worst analogical argument I've ever seen.

It's not detrimental in gameplay to win fights in a fighting game. It's detrimental and dangerous to go fast in a sonic game. It's beyond median and average reaction time to respond to blurry hazards through a composite signal when actually going fast. You're being punished for doing what the TV said to buy the game for. See the difference? Probably not, because sonic games are ~~SO GOOOD~~. They have fantastic music and looked really pretty at the time of release, but saying the gameplay is anything less archaic or skillful than the first Super Mario Brothers, with its slippery platforming difficulty, is absurd.

>>2280404
Call of Duty Ghosts was an extremely popular release. Are sales all that matter in terms of game quality?

>>2281773
>>2281829
Sage goes in all fields. srsly sage goes in options now .

>>2279642
What in god's name was good about Sonic CD's level designs?

>>2281837
So basically you need to git gud. Mastering the controls and learning the level layout is the ENTIRE point of the game. It has its roots in the arcade design philosophy, it died before you were born so I can't blame you for not knowing about it, just don't act like you have any clue what you're talking about.

>It's detrimental and dangerous to go fast in a sonic game

No it's not stupid, if you're good at the game you can, if you're bad you can't. Just like if you're good at a fighting game you can win, if you bad you can't. His analogy is spot on.

>>2281837

This. Everything about the games, from level design to the screen's size, is an active detriment to its core gameplay mechanic. It isn't well thought out or designed, and sold soley based on the marketing gimmick of appealing to kids who thought Mario was "too kiddie."

This isn't even arguable. All recent looks back at the game due to the disaster that is the whole franchise allowing nostalgia goggles to be removed are making the cracks in the game's legacy start to show.

>>2281942
>All recent looks back at the game

So you're just repeating what Youtubers say. Got it.

Sonic 2 > Sonic 1 & CD

Based STI showing those nips how it's done.

>>2281942
This, 100% this.
The worst part is Sega was on fire, releasing knockout after knockout, yet all anyone cares about is some mediocre series of platformers made to appease the burgerclappian hordes.

>>2281973
Sanic 2 is the best Sanic, hands down. Haters gonna hate. And also be fucking terrible at a game where you are immune to enemies as long as you have a ring.

You're not supposed to be able to beat the stages perfectly without being hit until you master the game. But mastering anything is beyond your average Sonic hater, too.

>>2281986

>fast food platformer

That's an excellent comparison. It's like a Double Down-style gimmick game made to get people talking about your console. Flashy and impressive in ads, but leaves you with diarrhea afterwards.

It's very nineties like Taco Bell dog

>>2281837
>It's beyond median and average reaction time to respond to blurry hazards through a composite signal when actually going fast.

>implying video connection affects gameplay

>>2281998
I mean, that's giving the game the benefit of the doubt, but if you think it'd still be impossible to react to the game's multitude of speed preventing spikes regardless, I guess there's another thing to chalk up about what's wrong with the early Sonic games.

>>2282008
I've never seen a worse case of git gud in my life and I'm not even a big Sonic fan.

When did /vr/ get infected with this /v/ level shit? God damn. Remember out first few months? It was nice to have a place to discuss video games free from retards and trolls.

>>2282017

What you call "trolling" is known in the real world as "discussion." Maybe you'll realize that when you grow up. You seem to want a "safe space" from criticism.

>>2282012
What, are you dumb? The game isn't hard. It never was. It's annoying because the developers were so damn proud of the ring losing effect that they had to throw it in every level where you can't avoid it on the first go. You're still going to beat the level, but you had no fun jumping around on terrain that's slippery no matter what color it is getting to the end.

>>2282017
>I'm scared because someone's talking down the game I loved so dearly as a kid
I know this is /vr/, but is your entire life going to be fearful of the new and always dwelling on how great the past was?

>>2282023
>you had no fun jumping around on terrain that's slippery no matter what color it is

You mean just like Mario? Stop being a faggot.

>>2282019
>repeating what Youtubers say
>"Discussion"

Pick one.

>>2282023
You're right it's not hard, you just suck at it. If you can't avoid getting hit on even on your first playthrough you have bad reactions times, simple as that.

By the way, in this "discussion" I've yet to see a legitimate complaint. And no, "I can't just run to the side without getting hit!" isn't legitimate.

>>2282039

then maybe you should fucking read the thread instead of spazzing out over your YouTube boogeyman shit? You're as bad as /v/.

>>2282040
I've read the entire thread twice now and like I said, there isn't a legitimate point that's been brought up that. I'm certainly not saying that the game is perfect or even great, but "I can't run without getting hit" really is nonsense.

>>2282047
"It would be better zoomed out some more" is a valid point. If actually put forward in a non-troll manner. Which it isn't here.

>>2282049
That's exactly it. There's legitimate complaints and discussion to be had, but it's put forth in such a "the game sucks, you only like it because it's your childhood deal with it nostalgiafags :^)" way that just reeks of /v/.

>>2279596
Meh, Sonic is shit, even when you compare it with the Mario games on the NES.
It became famous because, it was the only Mario clones on the Genesis to be hyped as hell.

>>2282070
Thank you for proving >>2282065's point.

>>2282070
You, sir, are a retard.

>>2281837
>>2281942
The idea that "going really fast" is Sonic's core gameplay mechanic is incredibly erroneous. Going fast is a byproduct of his core mechanic, which is pinball-like physics and stages

>>2279596
>encourages speed
tired of you faggots. there are so fucking many obstacles which completly slow down progress and yet people still fucking believe it is about speed. I figure it is more about exploration. It was definitely a platformer at first, people like you are what made Sonic what it is today.

>>2282065
I don't really like Sonic and I've been avoiding this thread because I know /v/tards can't fight like gentlemen. OP had to go all bait-y and drag Mario into this.

>>2282129
I like Sonic 1 best for the same reason most people probably like it least: you actually have to play the game instead of doing spin dash bumper car stuff and hanging onto one ring.

>>2282106
If going fast as important is erroneous, then why is there a tv show intro all about his speed? Why was the entire ad campaign versus the super nintendo to feature sonic about how fast the genesis was, and how fast sonic is on the genesis? Why does he have a moving animation to expressly symbolize great speed?

>>2282180
I didn't say it wasn't important, I said it wasn't the core gameplay mechanic

>>2282106
the whole "sonic isn't about speed" thing is also erroneous. The games ARE about speed. But that doesn't mean you don't have to be careful. Marvel vs Capcom is all about doing insane combos but that doesn't mean I can just button mash and get cool combos. The speed has to be EARNED by getting good.

>>2282180
I didn't see this tv intro in my country it was just viewed as a good game to buy made by the company making the best arcade hits at the time.
I can't remember it being compared to snes at all when It was released I think that's just a murrica thing, but the console does have a higher clock speed and more challenging action games maybe that why.

>>2282148
If you have 1 ring you cannot access the emerald rooms and actually complete the game, getting through the levels isn't that hard but getting all the emeralds by collecting enough rings and hitting the checkpoints is a different story.

sonic 1 has plenty of areas where it impedes the pace and makes you stop for bullshit like the moving platforms in spring yard and other stuff in places like marble and labyrinth zones.

But it was also the first game and they were still getting the formula right. Sonic 2 and 3 got rid of most of that bullshit and had much better level deeesign and a sense of speed.

Gr8 b8 m8

I must be getting old now that stupid kids are making threads about how sonic 1 and super mario world suck

>>2282230
It's OK bb, we'll die 2gether

>>2282230

It's ok, these kids have gone full retard even from a fellow kid's standards.

>>2281837
>It's not detrimental in gameplay to win fights in a fighting game.

Technically it can be, for example if by winning you have to face an overpowered boss.

>It's beyond median and average reaction time to respond to blurry hazards through a composite signal when actually going fast.

Newsflash: the faster the game is, the better reflexes you need to dodge shit. Because obstacles will come at you FASTER. Since you know, you are running into obstacles at a faster pace.

Is this so goddamn difficult to understand?
It's like the difficulty curve in God Hand. The better you get at the game, the harder it gets, but the worse you play the easier it gets, at any given point.

>saying the gameplay is anything less archaic or skillful than the first Super Mario Brothers, with its slippery platforming difficulty, is absurd.

The first super Mario brothers didn't even do collision check, had "left to right" levels, and had fuck all physics beyond "the ground is slippery" (which made some platforming parts way more difficult than they should have been).

Sonic had physics as good as a real-life pinball table, and it did that at never-before-seen speeds and graphics. It was something completely new, and it made Mario World look boring and old when put next to. The marketing capitalized on that, since the #1 goal of Sega at the time was to show that they are so much better than Nintendo.

Sonic 1's gameplay is a bit boring today, but so is the original Super Mario (and I'm sure we could come up with the exact amount of crock of shit on why that game sucked).

>>2280090
shmups don't encourage you to do anything that'd kill you

SMB is so twitchy and you die instantly. Its not much fun compared to Sonic's ring system.

Chemical Zone is fast as hell. There are times Sonic starts going off the screen if I remember correctly. Sonic 1 does have better level design than SMB. The physics in Sonic were a bit more natural. Once you memorize Sonic, you can do speed runs a little bit easier than SMB of course.

Mario can't Loop De Loop. Checkmate.

>>2282440
Uh, yeah they do. Plenty of them encourage you do play high on the screen, graze bullets, and maneuver wildly to pick up powerups and points.

>>2282441
Chemical Zone gives the Genesis slowdown. I don't think any other zone does.

>tfw not one Sonic autist has refuted this post
>>2281986

>>2279669
>mario world is considerably more rushed and half-baked in an attempt to sell consoles than sonic 1
g8 b8 m8

>>2282449
>Mario can't Loop De Loop. Checkmate.

He can in Yoshi's Island, then again he needed the FX2 chip for that.

>>2282463
He is right about the part where Sega had shitload of awesome IPs, but has now devolved into milking the Sonic franchise and doing nothing else.

I mean take Virtua Fighter for example: most popular fighting game in Japan, more popular than Street Fighter even, and the last game came out 5 fucking years ago - which was DLC update to the original release made 9 years ago. Since then, the closest we got to new VF experience was Dead or Alive having a few VF characters shoehorned in.

Fuck sonic. Make a new Virtua Fighter instead, Sega, I'll buy it.

kids these days, I swear to god

instead of getting better at a game they get frustrated and then go online and complain about fucking "game design"

for fucks sake

>>2282495

Yeah how dare people learn and/or think about things. What a bunch of retards.

>>2282567
except it's more than a bit obvious that they aren't actually thinking or learning

>>2282490
god, I really wish Sega would get its head out of its ass, it's literally got dozens of brilliant, well loved properties that are just languishing

fucking
dozens

>>2281847
wannabe patricians want to consider it the underrated gem that literally only they like when really its just bad

>>2279781
because people watched the megaman sequelitus and now think theyre game design majors when all they do is whine on the internet

>>2279781
Most of these are 12 year olds who couldn't get past the second zone. They're used to playing games that are designed for them to win, so when they suck, they reason that the game must suck to push blame on others.

People repeat ad nausum these days because it's a popular opinion.

>>2282441
>die instantly
d-

did y-

have you even played mario anon?

>>2280090
yeah trial-and-error-to-learn-a-level was kind of a staple of 80s/early 90s games. i mean yeah it isnt necessarily good design but why is it only a problem in sonic?

>>2282631
Anon was saying any damage results in death for Mario; Sonic can generally take two hits provided he has rings.

>>2282674
you can collect a mushroom/any other powerup like sonic can collect rings wtf have you never played mario either?

>>2282680
I don't know how I forgot about that. It just seems so different when you get bigger/have some powerup compared to just having rings.

Literally the most overrated game of all time.

>>2279596

I find it really sad that because of years of mediocre to outright broken 3D games and dumb "gotta go fast" memes, practically nobody will think of Sonic as "those fun platformers where you play as a spikey pinball with legs" anymore.

>>2282887

I've never seen a more faggot OP.

Ostentatious.
ɒstɛnˈteJʃəs/

Adjective:
Characterized by pretentious or showy display; designed to impress.

Can this thread die already?

>>2283510

"In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony hedgehog's fast gameplay. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence." -OP

>>2283702
Whoa whoa WHOA, hold on guys, we got us a professional quote maker here.

>>2282680
>you can collect a mushroom/any other powerup like sonic can collect rings wtf have you never played mario either?

When you get hit in Mario, you permanently lose your powerup.

In Sonic, you can still grab the rings you lose.

big difference.

>>2283725

Just to be clear, I’m not a professional ‘quote maker’. I’m just a teenage gamer who greatly values his intelligence and scientific fact over any silly video game made 24 years ago. This being said, I am open to any and all criticism.

>>2279596
Mad? Play Sonic 2, 3 and knickles, those are the "speedier" ones.
Want to be madder? play Sonic CD, platform goodness

>>2283702
>you don't be usin them big school words on mah vee arr

>>2283729
so theres no tension in getting hit. whats the point then? especially considering you only had to collect one to be ok

>>2283734
>teenage gamer

Go outside and play with your friends son, the adults are talking

>>2284529
In boss battles rings become harder to grab, in some final bosses you get no rings, you need to maintain 50+ rings to get the true ending in several of the games or access bonus stages, held rings count towards extra lives or points for Continues.

>>2284553
>In boss battles rings become harder to grab
not really. i mean i guess they can fly off-screen sometimes but all you have to do is grab one
>in some final bosses you get no rings
yeah thats a badly designed difficulty curve
>you need to maintain 50+ rings to get the true ending in several of the games or access bonus stages
yeah but in sonic 1 all it does is barely change the ending. not worth it. and super sonic is cool and all but it just makes every stage a cakewalk and gets boring quick
>held rings count towards extra lives or points for Continues.
i'll give you that

>>2284549

Sounds like you ate the pasta.

>Just to be clear, I’m not a professional ‘quote maker’. I’m just an atheist TEENAGER who greatly values his intelligence and scientific fact over any silly fiction book written 3,500 years ago. This being said, I am open to any and all criticism.

>‘In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.’ Aalewis

>>2282463
What's there to refute? He called something mediocre. Good for him.

I disagree, of course, for reasons stated by plenty of other people in detail in this very thread.

>>2284529
having more rings means it is easier to grab some if you get hit. If you have only 1 ring, it may get dropped in a direction which prevents you from grabbing it, like a corner of the screen and such - frequent when you do boss battles. So the rings don't give you infinite protection.

Additionally, you need it to access bonus content, it counts towards your score if you have more, and collecting 100 or 200 will net you an extra life.

Honestly it is a rather ingenious mechanism. All it needs is something to make the rings fall out in random directions; if you have 1 ring it will always fall out of you in a 10-o-clock direction, so as long as there is some path behind you, you can always grab it back. That should've been more random, so it is harder to grab rings if you only have 1 of them, and easier if you have more.

>>2284615
most of the time you dont even have to try to get more than one ring, i just used it as an example to show how shallow of a mechanic it is. i already addressed the extra life thing but thats kind of a given in life-based games. theres nothing exceptional about it.

>>2279621
>>implying anything egoraptor says outside of gg is valid

>>2284621
his criticisms in grumps are especially not well thought out

>>2280065
I'm surprised at the caliber of these excuses for lack of skill. I first played sonic when I was ten years old and I remember understanding the physics almost instantly. The challenge was hard, yet never unfair, and jesus christ, I was TEN. I've been watching these threads where people try to point out non-existent flaws (I don't believe the game is flawless as it has its good share of bugs, just not the ones described in this thread) and decided to let my little 11 year old cousin play the game. He, as well, understood the physics involved almost instantly. I can't help but think these complaints are the mark of a weak player instead of a real design flaw.

>>2284620
>most of the time you dont even have to try to get more than one ring

Well no, you don't, and you rarely have a chance to unless you dropped so many rings that a single jump will net you 3-4 more. But the point is, unless you have the chance to get additional rings scattered around the level (such as is the case with boss fights), the amount you can re-grab after getting hit will soon dwindle down to zero if you get hit often.

I wouldn't call it shallow, it is pretty near perfect - it gives you enough extra chances for the game to stay fun, but not as much that you are invincible. You can stay on the offense and keep running most of the time because any single ring will protect you. But on the other hand it forces you to explore a bit or backtrack a bit to find rings, in case you run out of them. And you cannot infinitely re-grab rings during boss fights, since they will easily fall out of the screen.

>>2284650

That's an awful lot of words just to say "get gud".

>>2279906
Crazy man but true wasn't expected to be the shit

>this thread was made on the 9th
>Sanicfags have been crying about how people don't like their game for three straight days

>>2282878

lol, it's not even close

>>2282878
Oops, you meant to post this in an Ocarina of Time thread.

>>2281625
>using an 8-bit early release game as a comparison to justify having made no design strides since

>>2282641
Because people are stupid. Holy fuck, /vr/ actually seems to understand Sonic games.

>>2282878
What is Ocarina of TIme or HL2?

>>2286350

Of the two, definitely OoT.

A Link to the Past is the most overrated game ever. We're at a point now where OoT is almost underrated. Every try-hard faggot loves to bash OoT and suck ALttP because some creep YouTuber told them so. Same with people who bash the old Sonic games.

>>2287071
>Same with people who bash the old Sonic games.

That was started by a Youtuber too? Who was it?

>>2287094
I would wager it was the same youtuber.

>>2287094
That RLM video. Almost every criticism of the original Sonic's I've seen is just parroting them. Yet they couldn't even figure out you're supposed to curl into a ball.

>>2287147
Just found the video. Fuck, those guys are annoying.

>>2287182
Yeah, they should probably stick to movies.