/vr/ - Retro Games

Perhaps a link?

A problem i can see immiediately though is a lack of space for sound cards or MIDI cards. I highly doubt DOS supports outputting to a MIDI device through USB.

>>2255297
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELTORA-MINI-PC-FOR-DOS-WINDOWS-98-333MHZ-128MB-WITH-IDE-RS-232-PARALLEL-LPT-/311272831430?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopPCs&hash=item48794e79c6

They have some others.

>>2255297

Many motherboards have drivers for general midi.

Nforce, AC'97 etc.

OP here.

This one looks much better:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-computer-For-Dos-Windows-98-800MHZ-128MB-RAM-IDE-2x-RS-232-Parallel-Cdrom-/310882178263?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item48620594d7

Wow, I've never seen one of these before. How interesting.

For a long time I actually tried to use a native Windows 98 installation on my desktop, but first the sound stopped working, then it stopped booting altogether when I got a dual GPU.

>>2255342
Well, no shit. I'm surprised you managed to get a single modern GPU working, let alone two.

>>2255342
Op here.
I never knew about these things before. They look like a better investment then cobbling together overpriced components.

>>2255313
With exterior MIDI ports?

>>2255329
Yeah. Ops dosen't have any Onboard Audio. He's going to need that if he wants to hear anything.

>>2255329
Don't alot of older DOS games also have problems with machines that have more than 16mb of RAM?

>>2255365
Not sure. I heard that it's best to keep it under 512mb

>>2255360
Pic related. Apart from needing a HDD, these things look ready to go.

>>2255360

Then why the fuck does it have a headphone jack on the front

>While looking on ebay for old tower units,
The two most common current form factors, ATX and µATX, both stem from the 90s. Only Mini-ITX was introduced in 2001.
You can use a modern case for classic hardware just like you could use classic hardware in a modern case.

>>2255347
The last video card I owned that Windows 98 co-operated with was a 4870. Not exactly new but at least ten years newer than 98 itself.

>>2255353

Mine does.

>>2255365

Anon i have a win98 machine with 512mb of RAM an invidia FX5700 and an athlon XP 1,2Ghz.

I can throw anything at it and it works, the only thing i have to do with a small number of games, it's to use CPUgrab to slow down the CPU, and i can make it works like an old pentium II 300Hz.

>>2255415
I've seen people recommend running 98 on a duel core cpu and 2 gig of ram

>>2255446
>2 gig of ram

WIN98 doesn't even boot with a RAM superior to 512, and WIN98 isn't optimized for dual cores.

This is one of the best setups to squeeze power from the OS >>2255415

>>2255446
they were obviously trolling
doesn't the system cap at 1gig ram?

>>2255460
>>2255461
oh i was thinking of xp
stupid

>>2255461
>1gig ram

Unofficially, you need to patch the OS to make it works, but it's not really that compatible.

>>2255464

And let me also add that all the apps working in WIN98 are optimized for 512mb of ram, putting more even hacking it, will not make it better.

>>2255461
No. This guy really did believe that it would be the best set-up. He didn't understand how 98 worked.

>>2255470

You have to be careful even when buying a GPU for WIN98, you can buy an invidia FX, but even the first GPU of the geforce 6 series will not work because of a lack of drivers.

>>2255483
That's why I was looking at these mini-pc's. Out the box ready for 98.

>>2255495

I have a pc with WIN98 already, so i'm not particularly interested in this even if i find it interesting.
What scare me is the GPU, many games need a decent chip to work at their best, what does this minipc use ?

>>2255501
VIA S3 ProSavage integrated graphics

>>2255501
It's integrated onto the Geode CPU, so very shitty. Pretty much 2d only.

>>2255509 is referring to >>2255329

>>2255513 is referring to >>2255303

>>2255509

Ok i did a little search, and without taking into account driver compatibility, it should be powerful enough to make dungeon keeper 2 work at 640x480 or 800x600 (at best)
Still better than nothing, but it seems there are many different minipc out there with pretty decent specs.

>>2255519

Just found manual for it, it's not a S3 Savage, it's also some shitty chipset graphics, can't find any information on performance.

>>2255509
What if you used a PCI riser to mount an external gpu?

>>2255524

Then it's a mystery anon, better going for something where the specs are better specified.

>>2255375

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2004#sp

>>2255534
Realtek ALC202A AC97 audio codec

MIDI work, sure 100%

>VIA C3 EBGA 733MHz

MMX instructions and 3DNow! technology, really good, this will make many games compatible.

RAM and GPU as i said before can do a mediocre\decent job, seems decent enough to me.

>>2255541
I'm not one to complain. I'll keep it as a back up option if building one myself get's a little to pricey.

Roland Virtual Sound Canvas for anyone that wants their midis to sound good and doesn't have room for a card. XP is the last OS that'll run this thing without major problems
https://www.mediafire.com/?37k7bkd1a4nyfq7

SC-55 soundfont used in conjunction with BASSMidi on newer OSes works too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tmN1a3cDMg

just felt like sharing as all

>>2255643
I was considering picking up a Roland SC-88 Pro to use with both my midi keyboard and computer.

>>2255285
>price is about the same
No. People will pay you to take old machines with a better spec. I'd have to see all those chipsets working in dos, 3.11, etc to believe their compatibility claims. I bet whatever even works sucks ass.

>>2255460
>WIN98 doesn't even boot with a RAM superior to 512
Yes it does. If you and the other kids regurgitating this myth had ever built a retro PC you'd know that.

>>2255663
>midi keyboard
I can recommend this one warmly for playing. It can be used for games with timidity (gzdoom, dosbox) but results are hit or miss.

http://www.filewatcher.com/m/SGM-V2.01.sf2.247406594-0.html

>>2255676
Who builds a retro PC with 512 MB RAM? 128 MB seems like the highest for the time. 512 is more fitting for 2002/03.

>>2255663
It's a very good synthesizer. I was wondering whether to get the SC-D70 instead though as my speaker have digital input.

>>2255687
it`s not a synthesizer

>>2255704
It could be said that it does GS GM sound synthesis. I know those by the term "rompler" because it plays sounds from a rom module or card.

>>2255704
Hey come on, let's not be pedantic.

>>2255684

Someone that doesn't want a crippled machine, having win98 doesn't means that you have to build a low specs machine, 512mb can only do good.

>>2255735
Next you're going to add a CPU with 1 GHz or more. That just isn't retro.

>>2255676
>I'd have to see all those chipsets working in dos, 3.11


Those minipcs are better off with win98, and with realtek plus that savage GPU he can pretty much play DOS games with general midi.

>>2255704
It is, though. Not analogue, but still using the basic synth formula of waveform -> filter -> amp envelope. Don't be a pedant.

>>2255663
Check out prices on EMU Proteus 2000 modulea, if they're in your price range, go for it. Much better sound quality and more programmable. If you just want a decent MIDI module without fuss, the Sound Canvas is decent.

>>2255739

Listen anon, with WIN98 it's not about retro hardware, but retro software fitted with the best hardware compatible.
I'm not retarded enough to build a win98 machine with a 800Hz CPU and a voodoo 2 (and i still have a SLI setup)
I can play messiah at 1280x1024 and the same goes for dungeon keeper 2 and everything is fluid, you can dream that with a Geforce 2 or a shitty TI.

>>2255749

Let me correct myself, an 800Hz CPU would more than decent, but for the sake of being retro many would mount a 300Hz CPU that would make most 98-2001 games unplayable at high settings and at a decent resolution.

>>2255748
That does sound pretty good. It has no application for video games though i'm guessing?

>>2255663
was thinking about it too actually, the virtual sound canvas doesn't sound nearly as good as the stuff recorded from the actual unit does. It's just so ethereal and otherwordly sounding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqSkxzoLt3M

>>2255704
I may not be the best qualified to answer on this but I'm certain the MIDI ports on the unit make it able to act as one

OP here, Thanks for your input. It does look as if building is the way to go, It's just a question of availability.

Quick question. How would I fair if I went for a laptop made round 2001/02?

>>2255749
I can play DK2 on my regular PC.

>>2255758
800 MHz Pentium 3 or 750 MHz Athlon is the fastest CPU released in 1999.

>>2255509
Wow. Even unreal tournament struggles wit this card
>>2255541
>MIDI work, sure 100%
It doesnt look like the ALC202A has an FM synthesizer for adlib though

>>2255643
>Roland Virtual Sound Canvas
Doesnt work under DOS

>>2255285
cheapest way to get a retro computer is to go to the garbage dump/recycling centers. People still throw away p3 machines

>>2255684
I might understand limiting a 98 machine to 512 because someone who might use it might not know how to not fuck it up and run into problems with more. I can't see any reason to limit it to less though. I run mine at 512-1G depending on what memory I have laying around.

>>2255742
>better off with win98
I'm sure they are which is why I enjoy my free authentic period machines that handle older stuff just fine. I wouldn't touch a Savage with 10 foot pole. Even if it had a Mystique on the end to help equalize the shittyness.

>>2255878
S3 cards like savage had one of the best dos compatibility out there. But they where infamously known as decelerators in 3D. What you could do is run a S3 card as 2D only and add voodoo 2 for 3d acceleration.

>>2255878
If you want to build a PC from that era than 512 MB RAM are anachronistic. Same goes for TB sized HDD.

These look lovely.

>>2255905
>S3 cards like savage.
There are no S3 cards like the Savage. Everything before it was good and had drivers. Savage is shit and has very limited drivers.

>>2255926
>anachronistic
No. In the late 90's plenty of people had more than 512. Maybe your home PC didn't but people who could justify the cost did.
If you're goal isn't to reproduce what a poorfag would have had at the time you're going to go with the best that was available. While it may have cost several thousand dollars at the time it's now dirt cheap/free.

>>2256860
Absolutely no game that ran only in Win98 benefits from more than 512MB RAM. NONE! I challenge you to provide academic proof otherwise!

Win98 FE had issues using greater than 512 due to the VCACHE limitation; and only 98SE & ME ran out of the box with 512+ properly. While there may have been many people with 1GB plus installed pre-2000; it's a big stretch to call it common in any way. Let alone ignore the fact that very few games of that time (98 especially) really benefited from 256MB vs 128MB. You got a larger boost from more VRAM & a better GPU or CPU.

>>2256860
Late 90s? People might have had 512MB (well, I had 512 in 2001 and that was a fucking lot for the time, I legitimately had no idea what anyone would do with more RAM for years, up until after 2GB had become extremely common), but even in 1999/2000, you'd have 64 to 256 MB RAM in a machine.

but yeah, sticking the most powerful parts that work seems like the best way to go
getting a period-authentic performance experience with PC games is awful, I just want them to actually run (since if you didn't need 98, you'd just run them on your normal PC, which is unreasonably fast by 2000 standards)

>>2257306
Are there any games that actually require Windows 98 that will absolutely refuse to run on Windows 7? I can't think of a single popular one.

The only reason you'd want to build a legacy PC in my view is for DOS games.

>>2257035
You replied to the wrong post. I never said any of those things you're arguing about. Back to your containment board if you want to shit post.

>>2257306
Graphics/Video and any other memory intensive work always benefited from more memory. We were using 1G+ dual CPU system in the late 90's. You didn't need that kind of power to play games but you sure did to make them.

The only way to get a really good retro gaming experience is to have hardware that matches the game. Depending on how far back you want to go this can mean 3-4 separate machines. Trying to run 80's dos stuff on a machine that can also handle shit your 7/8 machine just won't cut it.

>>2255761
that's pretty sexy. Reminds me of 90s SNES and arcade games, and makes me wish I knew anything about synthesizers.

>>2257404
>80's dos stuff on a machine that can also handle shit your 7/8 machine just won't cut it.

7/8 no, but every pc from 2001\2002 can (at worst you need CPUgrab).
And if you like me, enjoy games from early 2000 that works better on WIN98 or just for nostalgia, you need a more than decent win98 pc.

Recommended for project E.D.E.N
Operating system (OS) 98 ME
Processor (CPU) Intel Pentium III 500 MHz
System memory (RAM) 128 MB
Video card (GPU) DirectX 8.0a compatible 64 MB of VRAM

>>2257403

Most 97-2001 games work better in WIN98 or work only on it.

Messiah by interplay work like shit on anything besides WIN98 with really good components.

Sanity aiken's artifact is the dame as above.

BLOOD in DOS is incredible under WIN98

Die by the sword, ecstatica II win version, project E.D.E.N etc.

You are not going to build such a machine only for popular games, and let's not forget nostalgia anon.

>>2257461
>>2257449
Why does Project EDEN work better on Windows 98? I notice the gog version is compatible with Windows 7.

And I consider Blood a DOS game. If only someone could wrestle the source code from the current iteration of Atari that really needs mercy killing, we could play that with proper mouse controls.

>>2257514
>Why does Project EDEN work better on Windows 98? I notice the gog version is compatible with Windows 7.

Hey anon, those games are patched, sometimes they work well, but holy shit sometimes it's hell.

I bought the game at the time of the beta, and they have never been able to fix any of the video issues i and many others had (no video acceleration, audio missing, no CD2 music and dialogs, patch 0.2 not being used, many effects missing etc.

Dungeon keeper 2 doesn't let you use hardware acceleration, 32biteverything or z-buffer.

And i listed BLOOD, because i've been a long time DOSbox user before switching to a real WIN98 machine, and believe, there's a big fucking difference.
DOS games works perfectly on win98, they only thing you need are parts compatible for the OS; not specifically old.

>>2257584
>I bought the game at the time of the beta, and they have never been able to fix any of the video issues i and many others had (no video acceleration, audio missing, no CD2 music and dialogs, patch 0.2 not being used, many effects missing etc.


The game in question is messiah.

>>2257514
just use bmouse

OP here.

I'm looking at the following:

>Shuttle MK35 v1.0a
>Athlon XP 1800+ 1.53GHz
>512 MB
>FX5700 ULTRA-TD128

Still need a psu and a have some spare cd/dvd drives.

>>2257584
As far as I can see on gog their version of Dungeon Keeper 2 now works 100% with Windows 7. The vast majority of these older Windows games have been patched or had workarounds for newer operating systems. It would have to be a very, very obscure title to not function properly on XP/7.

And forget about dosbox, how does Blood differ between Windows 98 and actual DOS?

>>2257586
Tried it, it's awful.

>>2257608

Only the motherboard doesn't convince me, go for an asus A7N8X-X, those a god like.

>>2257613
>how does Blood differ between Windows 98 and actual DOS?

It doesn't anon, dos is the core for win95\win98.

>>2257613
>As far as I can see on gog their version of Dungeon Keeper 2 now works 100% with Windows 7. The vast majority of these older Windows games have been patched or had workarounds for newer operating systems. It would have to be a very, very obscure title to not function properly on XP/7.
>And forget about dosbox, how does Blood differ between Windows 98 and actual DOS?


Anon i tried all those patched version and i still can't do what i listed on dungeon keeper 2 or messiah.
And you want to play some popular game that is not even available on gog when you have a real win98 machine.

>>2257626
The motherboard is a bundle on ebay for £15 and the graphics card cost me £6.

>>2257634

Well fuck, then go for it.

>>2257626
Well I find it hard to believe gog can offer to sell Messiah & Dungeon Keeper 2 and list them as compatible with newer operating systems when they're not fully working.

On gog's own Dungeon Keeper 2 forum, the top thread is 'Hardware Acceleration FIXED' for example.

>>2257641


Good if they fixed the acceleration, but messiah is still unplayable.

>>2257608
>Still need a psu
The Althons draw power from the 5v rail so be sure to get one with 25-30 amp on the 5v rail minimum.

>>2257849
I've kept a few psu's + cases over the years for times like these.

>The Althons draw power from the 5v rail so be sure to get one with 25-30 amp on the 5v rail minimum.

Thanks.

>>2255663
i have a roland sd-20, it's very nice
hard to find though

>>2257608
you can definitely build a better socket 462-based configuration than that. there are boards that have higher FSB, AGP 8x, on-board SATA-1/RAID and more RAM capabilities which can come in handy on a NT-based windows.

if you want to stick to a CPU at around 1.5GHz and AGP 4x, why not get a socket 370-based build with a 1.4GHz Pentium 3 - runs cooler and probably draws less power than an a s462 build.

>>2258531
>NT-based windows.

Win 98 isn't NT based.

>>2258542
NT4/2k are and they have their uses even on a primarily DOS/Win9x machine

>>2258549

He didn't say if he wanted to put win 2000\XP on it, but yes i actually have a lightweight version of xp installed on my win98 machine in case of need.

It's also true that you can easily connect to the internet with win98.

>>2258531
way to take snibeti snab out of context
real fuckin kc tier

>>2258556
>complaining about kc tire

How much would you pay for my 1996 Toshiba Satellite Pro 440CDT?

>P1 133MHz
>64MB RAM
>800x600 16.7M colors
>C&T F65554
>Yamaha OPL3-SA3
>6GB HDD
>One USB 2.0 port (confirmed working on Win98SE)
>Working battery

It's useless and bulky to me, I don't really like DOS games, and my netbook with WinXP is better in every way.

>>2258571

10 €

>>2258571
>One USB 2.0 port (confirmed working on Win98SE)
USB 2.0 came out in 2000. Even the original USB 1.0 only came out in 1996. Is it a PC Card or similar expansion?

>>2258580
Yeah my bad, USB 1.0 @ 12 Mbit/s theoretical maximum.

>>2255643
What's the difference between this and something like MUNT?

>>2255643
>BASSMidi
What about VirtualMIDISynth?
I was told to use that since it apparently works better than BASSMidi, but IIRC, they have the same basis or something?

>>2258697
>What about VirtualMIDISynth?
I've used both and they work all the same, soundfonts are being used with either solution so the preference is up to you

>>2258740
Alright.

So something like MUNT for mt-32. That soundfont linked for SC-55. Whatever else for just general midi (I have Musyng Kite and FluidR3 for just general MIDI usage).

>>2258745
Have you used that OPL3 soundfont that's been floating around? Opinions from somebody who actually owns a card?

I like the soundfont and I like the DOSBox emulation but I haven't heard the real thing in person to make any comparisons. Descent and Sonic 3 sounded so good before I made the jump to XP.

>>2258691
Virtual Sound Canvas emulates the SC-55, MUNT emulates the MT-32. It depends on the game which synth the soundtrack was composed for, but these are the 2 most popular when it comes to PC games. Generally speaking, games from 1987-1992 will be for the MT-32, and games from 1992-1997 will be for the SC-55.

Sound Canvas modules have an MT-32 mode, but it sounds pretty awful.

It needs an OASYS PCI or it ain't worth shit.