/vr/ - Retro Games

Nah.

>>2213750
oh ok

I was looking for RGB cables and found this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Playstation-PS1-PS2-PS3-RGB-AV-Scart-Lead-Cable-/291366265227?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item43d6c8618b
Can I expect it to work flawlessly on PS1 and PS2? Why is the audio separated from the SCART?

>>2216429
Probably composite.
Finding a quality PS1 cable is a bit tough right now.

The previous thread is past the bump limit now, so I guess.

Could we get the thread with the proper OP?

Here's some pics of my 8 inch PVM I got a while back.
This one is over composite.

And here's RGB.

Why are shmups so popular in the CRT threads/community? I've seen like 3000 close-ups of the "M" in Metal Slug.

i've got a sony pvm 1954q

i'm not in euroland and don't know much about rgb but what would be my best option for rgb on my consoles?

currently none are modded but the list is:
nes [ntsc]
snes mini & regular [ntsc]
pc engine duo r [jap]
sega genesis model 2 [ntsc]
sega mark III [jap]
ps1 [ntsc]

I got this pvm free from a TSN sports broadcasting studio that never used it and would love your help, it's like-new

>>2216662
>>2216664
what game is that?

>>2216738
Just a rom hack of Sonic 1 with Sally that I stumbled upon a while ago.

>>2216738
looks like sally acorn in sonic the hedgehog

>>2216689
retrorgb.com

NES you can buy an NESRGB board and solder it yourself.

SNES regular outputs RGB by default; you just need a SCART cable. SNES mini has better picture quality, but you need to do a relatively simple mod to wire up the port correctly for RGB.

retrorgb.com, btw

>>2216689
Are you implying that Japan doesn't use NTSC?

>>2216429
i got one from a chinese seller and its fine, it was cheaper than that too.

>watch melee at apex 2015
>they use a small-ish consumer CRT for the finals
>mfw they don't have professional monitors, even for their biggest tournaments

You would think they would have a large PVM or a NEC XM for that.

>>2216946
>implying supersmashfags are learned

>>2216946
Probably what most of them are used to/what most of them grew up playing/improved their skills playing Melee with.

>>2213351
Why are you using CRT TVs? Can't you afford an LCD TV?

>>2216946
Small consumer tvs may be better in that situation. In an intense fighting match you will want to be able to see the whole screen. Larger crts will strain your eyes if you sit too close to them. Professional grade stuff is a luxury.

>>2217336
To put it simply, LCDs usually have a fixed resolution and signals lower than that must be upscaled. This can introduce varying degrees of input lag. Some TVs are better than others, it all depends on the hardware.

SD CRTs are best for /vr/ consoles as those TVs don't need to process an image like a modern flat panel would as CRTs can usually handle multiple resolutions just fine.

Plus LCDs don't have scanlines.

If there are any errors in this I'd appreciate it if any of you anons correct me.

I have a question for you guys. I am in europe. Afaik an scart cable can be anything from composite, to svideo to rgb.
1 how do you know if a scart cable is rgb?(i suppose the ones that adapt the yellow red and white rcas are not since th yellow rca is composite)
2 does every tv accept an rgb signal? I have an old 14 inch kitchen tv crt that i'm not sure why but i think it does not take rgb. It's got an scart in (and antenna ofc)
3 not every console can spit out rgb right? The raspberry pi is limited to composite?

Thanks in advance.

>>2217506
1. Look at the pins.
2. Find a manual online.
3. Also HDMI, but both are obviously weak choices for CRTs

>>2216946
do they use GC component cables and play in 480p (or on a wii at 480p) or are they also play at 480i?

>>2217623
> 2. Find a manual online.
I found the user manual and the service manual and I am looking at them (even though I don't understand almost anything about the service manual) but I found pic related and I wanted to know if they went a bit too far with the caution or if I am actually at risk. The TV is a Daewoo 14Q3.

Regarding RGB it is not mentioned much. In the user manal when speaking about the SCART ports it says

>SCART JACK
This is used to connect: a VCR, a PAY-TV decoder, a
Camcoder and a video game console.
In most case, the set changes automatically to AV mode, when
the VCR connected is in play back mode.
If not, press the AV button (
)on the remote control or on
the front of the set.
The AV (
) will be displayed on the screen with the current
programme number.
In AV mode, you can change the TV programme number with
the UP/DOWN button or the NUMBER button 0..9 You can
also receive the S-VHS signal with SCART jack by selecting S-
VHS mode with AV button (
).
Note that it's impossible to control the functions excepting the
volume control and mute function in the RGB mode. You must
turn the external equipment off to return to the TV mode

but RGB mode is maybe used as SCART mode in that paragraph.

>>2217713
Sorry, it's me again but I think I found it.
According to this (pic related) the TV uses RGB internally and it gets it via applying a matrix to the composite signal UNLESS rgb is coming from the SCART in which case it just overrides the results with the input from the SCART.
Did I interpret it correctly?
Thanks again.

>>2217632
AFAIK they just play in 480i with composite cables. I don't think they really care if the signal quality is the best or not, just so long as it shows an acceptable picture and there's no lag. The GC's composite output was very good, in any case.

>>2216443
>Why is the audio separated from the SCART?
To connect to your stereo set. Newer playstations don`t have a audio-out.
>>2216443
>Probably composite.
Why do you say this? It says RGB and it is.

>>2217727
One of the pins in SCART needs to be at the correct signal level to actually enable RGB mode too. I've had cables that were correctly wired except for that pin, so I had to add a resistor between 5V and that pin to enable RGB.

Funny is how I first noticed it working in RGB mode when I had it connected to a SCART switch and then turned another console on, it would suddenly be in RGB. That was because that scart switch connects that pin together for all inputs apparently (also has a nice little toggle-switch which toggles the output of that pin so you can turn on/off RGB. quite useful if you want to see the difference in quality you get).

Actually IIRC that pin can be toggled mid-scanline to enable for OSD graphics coming from e.g. a VCR (it would send the normal video as composite, and then the OSD graphics as RGB and then toggle the pin at the right timings to show the OSD graphics)

Of course if you have a PVM or other fancy purely RGB monitor that SCART stuff isn't going to matter anyway.

>>2217791
So RGB mode can be enabled right (I mean, could you tell that from the picture I posted)? It is a consumer-grade 14 inch CRT TV (which I suppose was not that expensive) so I suppose what you say about the signal level applies (In case RGB can be enabled).

Is it common that these kind of TV accept an RGB signal? Is the difference noticeable with the displays they have?

What happens in the case you connect a console with the appropiate RGB cable to a TV can not take an RGB signal? Is there any kind of incompatibility (like getting a monochrome image) or does it just switch to composite?
I've seen stuff about syncing problems in the site posted above (retrorgb.com) but I didn't have much time to browse it and I think most of its content suppose your display is RGB.

>>2217830
Yeah, with the correct cable it will be enabled.

If the TV cannot take an RGB signal it will switch to composite. Composite is always present in a proper SCART. But sometimes you see people wire them with CSYNC (short for composite sync, don't confuse it with composite video AS sync...) with consoles because it might give a better picture with some setups. This difference is usually negligble, it's really a thing for some monitors that cannot deal with composite as sync than it is for normal TVs that will happily sync your RGB signal using the composite video signal.

The point is you'll probably not have syncing problems with a regular TV, unless you have some very exotic/modded console (I hear RGB modded N64s can be troublesome with composite as sync).

What is very common is that TV sets with multiple SCART inputs only accept RGB in one of the inputs. You'll simply have to experiment your way forward here (it's usually the lower-numbered one).

>>2217841
I forgot to add: but since you'll get picture on even the input that doesn't support RGB (it'll fall back to composite) you'll have to be careful and compare the picture quality.

It's particularly hard with the Xbox Hueg and a TV set with good comb filters, because the composite quality might be good enough to fool you...
Happened me at least once.

So try it with a console that has shit composite!

>>2217841
>>2217849
Thank you very much, that was very informative. This TV has only 1 SCART input so if it has to work is through there.

>>2217791
>Funny is how I first noticed it working in RGB mode when I had it connected to a SCART switch and then turned another console on, it would suddenly be in RGB. That was because that scart switch connects that pin together for all inputs apparently
I'm not sure if I got this 100% right. I interpret it as either
1. You turned another console on and that pumped the signal level up so the console that was already on got displayed in RGB mode.
2. You turned another console on and that got overlaid on the image that was already being displayed.

>>2217961
i think he meant when he turned the other console, with RGB, on the switch picked up on the fact that there was an RGB signal and, therefore, outputted RGB to the tv.

that's assuming his switch is automatic but he had manual selected his first console.


or i misread it completely.

What's a sweet spot for Trinitrons? I don't find the need to seek out an expensive PVM, but I also want a display that isn't shit. Shouldn't be too large.

>>2218264
The Sony WEGA line is very good. They're silver and are typically flat screen.

I'm trying to figure out a capture setup for my PVM. Would RGB in -> PVM -> BNC to VGA out -> capture card work?

>>2218284
Isn't the WEGA line 100Hz digital enhancement bullshit?

So I can get a deal on a 2005 era sony projector whos model number I dont have at the moment. Its commerical grade, and accepts RGB inputs, would this be any good for gaming? Im unfamiliar with response times on projectors.

Anybody that has experience with B&O Beovision? Other than the god tier aesthetics, how are they for gaming?

Is there any way to get rid of the horizontal lines from a Sony CRT monitor?

>>2218916
No, those horizontal lines are tension wires keeping the aperture grille in place. A small sacrifice for a better overall picture.

>>2218657
There are HD WEGA models and SD WEGA models, with the SD models being the general favorite consumer CRTs for retro gaming, with the HD models better suited to newer consoles. You can identify HD models from the rear inputs.

>>2218713
The picture quality is not ideal, but the theater-esque size of the playable screen has its own charm. Let's hope the novelty doesn't wear off until your wallet recovers.

What are my options in playing ps1 games?
I have a pal ps1 which only has an AV multi out, serial I/O.
I'm willing to get a ntsc ps1 if it offers better connections.

>>2218982
Fairly certain you have composite, s-video, and RGB just like the NTSC Playstations.

>>2218954
These suck then, are there any alternatives? These horizontal lines are too distracting.

Will having a speaker close to a CRT damage either?

>>2219047
I have a speaker close to it, not extremely close.

>>2219047
If the speaker is properly shielded, there shouldn't be a problem.

Older and unshielded speakers however can end up distorting the picture due to magnetic fields being put out, and this can be a problem if the CRT has a particularly weak degaussing coil or doesn't have one at all.
The old set of speakers I use cause some problems if I have them with in 8 or so inches of my PVM. The HD CRT can be right next to it so long as the speaker is set behind it slightly.


>>2216673
>Metal Slug
>Shmup
That's a Run & Gun. And if anything, I've probably seen more closeups of the R-Type R than Metal Slug's M.

>>2216673
>I've seen like 3000 close-ups of the "M" in Metal Slug.
you've seen the same picture of that M 3000 times
>>2219107
>I've probably seen more closeups of the R-Type R than Metal Slug's M.
this and SMW are what i think of most.

>>2219107

Will placing the monitor on top of my computee damage its case or my hard drive? It's sideways.

Next time, don't forget the OP's pasta:
Previous Thread: >>2178309

This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!

Some tips to bring the threads back to their former glory
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.)
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike!
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming

CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933

>>2219032
You just need to find a shadowmask/tri-dot monitor.

The lines are really only obvious on white pages, trying using darker themes and they'll be less noticeable.

>>2219126
That all depends on the computer's case and how heavy the monitor is.

If you have a flimsy case made of thin gauge metal and a particularly heavy monitor, it might not be the best of ideas. On the opposite side, you have stuff like Dell's Optiplex line which get used as monitor stands all the time.

>>2219134
In all fairness, this one was sort of adopted since it was around before the last one died.

>>2219032
Try not sitting so close to the monitor that your nose is pressed to the screen. Alternatively, what >>2219165 said.

Just received my Sony PVM-14M2U yesterday. After I messed around in the menu for a couple of hours, I think I got the picture looking pretty nice.

1/2

>>2219402

I plan on getting some scart cables later, but I'm fine with s-video for now. It definitely looks better than my Toshiba 14AF44, although that was still a nice tv.

2/2

>>2219178
kya stop taking the pictures i plan on taking.

i've been playing a lot of blazing lazers lately and just need to find my ol' digicam.

i believe we've talked about it in the past, actually.

I've never thought I'd be a CRT guy. I played Earthbound at work on a Emerson SDTV (pleb crt) then I brought it home and tried to play on my hdtv. Holy shit guys. it looks like garbage. I'm going to be scouring the streets for a crt.

>>2219186
Are there any good shadow mask monitors?

>>2219417
Sorry bout that. Was just trying to troubleshoot some problems I was having with my Wii and just ended up choosing that game; Probably because it was mentioned last thread.

On that topic, not going to be able to take many photos of anything emulated from the Wii until I get a new SD card for it; Can still play properly with the one from my camera, but there in lies the problem.
Either that or try working around the ~7 photo capacity of the built in memory.

>>2216664
I meant to take some photos of that some months ago but forgot about it. Plays alright, but the timing on her blaster can get a bit annoying. The hammer mechanics in the Amy hacks fit better, I feel.

>tfw want to get a PAL Amiga but would have to upgrade CRT from Commodore 1702 to something multisystem with RGB and don't want to feel obligated to hunt down better versions/mod the rest of my collection to get optimal RGB and buy a bunch of SCART cables

>>2219417
Thats not very fair. There's nothing stopping you from taking them after you get your camera or better yet just use "kyas"

I'm in need of an S-video switch box, but every one I've tried produces a significant decrease in video quality. They have all been passive, so I'm not sure if that might have anything to do with it.

Does anybody have any experience with switch boxes and provide some insight?

>>2219610
yes

>>2219616
I see. Thank you.

>>2219610
Yes, similar issues i experienced with an SCART switch box which has the RGB and record line switch, it was rather nice how parallel the RGB and composite traces on the PCB was which produced some nice chroma crosstalk on the red channel.

One big problem is the the lack of shielding between the connectors and switches. Cutting the trace very near the solder joints and replace the trace with an shielded wire could reduce crosstalk by a great deal but it's ineffective against high closed switch resistance. This forms a voltage divider between S-Video input and TV, as your console has to drive the 75ohms termination in your TV and the resistance between it causes a voltage drop.

The best solution would be to make your own (personal) active switch with expensive video OpAmps (single AD810 did cost me 4,50€, don't even think of getting either old or cheap OpAmps) and CMOS switches (4066 are 4 ON switches), the trick here is that all inputs are terminated and output of the OpAmp goes to your TV set and you just use the CMOS switches to connect one single video input to the OpAmp input.
This is usually quite expensive and mechanical switches are so cheap that not many companies actually produce this kind of active switch box, and if they do then they usually cutting costs making it no better than a passive switch box.

I had my plans to make one with 10 SCART inputs and 2 SCART outputs, thinking of the resulting size and effort to build this really demotivated me. So staying with my organized mess of cables so i can plug in the right cable directly into my TV is still the best solution to my problem.

>>2219447
Pretty much any post-2000 CRT that's not from Sony, NEC, Mitsubishi, or LG use shadow mask and ought to be pretty good. Some Dells do use aperture grille, but they are easily identified because they bear the Trinitron insignia.

how am i supposed to hook up my crt to my computer for the best signal?

>>2218339
old-ass comment, but if you're still around, what model PCM and cap card do you have?
mine ddoesn't have vga out, so I do:
RGB SCART > Sync Strike > VGA cable > VGA Splitter
one VGA cable from the splitter goes to my PEXHDCAP and the other is VGA-to-BNC for the PVM

>>2220327
what model PVM* and cap card

>>2220332
*what model PM* and cap card

>>2213351
Oh shit, Ryu is gettin' ready for his eyebeams!

>>2219813
I have a Dell with aperture grille, which I think is worth having thin lines for. What I really hate about it is the poor blacks. Even with brightness set to 0, a black screen still doesn't look black.

Not retro but can I use a softmoded pal wii, force 480p on gamecube games and output to a progressive scan crt? Do progressive scan crts even exist?

>>2220447
Maybe a problem with the monitor? I have a Dell M992 with aperture grille and its got perfect blacks.

>>2218957
>>2218657
>>2218264
>>2218284

I just saw this ad, someone near Albuquerque should look if it's still there
http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/zip/4842540702.html

>>2216946
We usually use plain composite with any ol' crt we can get our hands on. While some sets have an obviously better picture, we don't mind as the more sets the better. As for big tournaments, I've wondered the same thing but I assume most people don't think it's a big enough difference to justify the search for an optimal crt. I do remember a reputable group of smashers in cali are amassing a large number of Sony Trinitron sets for future tournament use.

>>2217293
Some of us are

>>2220456
You can and they do but it's kinda difficult to find a 480p crt that doesn't introduce line/edge enhancements and what not.

>>2220504
Than how do most people get the best signal out of the gamecube and ps2?
Again I know they aren't retro but this is the only relevant place for crt's.

>>2220457
My other CRT has perfect blacks, but its near black levels are also too dark, making it impossible to see in dark games if the HUD is too bright.

>>2220512
Like you said, with a 480p compatible crt through component cables.

>>2220504
Can't you use PC monitors for 480p?

>>2220525
You can but then you're going to have to go through the hoops of getting your signal converted to vga if it doesn't already output it.

>>2220548
Then the question is if the Wii can output progressive RGB. I know the PS2 can as the Linux kit included a VGA cable.

>>2220876
The GameCube could potentially output VGA RGB, but not the Wii AFAIK. There are VGA cables out there for the Wii, but they're basically component cables with a built-in transcoder or something like that.

>>2221128
A console from 2006 that can neither do digital nor RGB properly, that's the sad state of modern Nintencuck.

>>2221284
The wii can support 240p - 480i/p through component. It also supports RGB but only in PAL mode.

The gamecube also supports 240p - 480i/p on select games with component cables, as well as analog RGB in PAL mode and digital RGB by modifying the component cables with a VGA out.

>>2220447
What's your contrast? I got perfect black on my Dell P991 by upping the contrast to 100 and reducing the brightness to 17.

>>2221331
Can't check right now, but it looks like an E773C.

>>2221342
You have to use an old ass Sony program called WinDas to fuck with advanced adjustments. Also need a proprietary cable to do it.

Here's a link if you think it's worth the trouble.
http://www.piclist.com/images/com/geocities/www/gregua/windas/

I had one a long time ago that was severely blue-tinted and had to use WinDAS to calibrate it.

Is it worth buying a PVM 20L5 for $300 if you already have a 14L5?

Do you guys have any idea where I might find additional connector cards for a PVM?

I found a jvc DT-V1700CG PVM at a goodwill last week for $6. The thing works great, but it only has a dual composite input/output card. I've been searching on ebay but I haven't been able to find any other cards for it and I'd really like to get component inputs.

>>2220447
That's a common problem with those Dell monitors. I'm pretty sure it can be calibrated out, but it needs to be done with a special " windas" cable. Not sure if your specific monitor supports one, but I think most do.

http://www.myblog.bloggybloggy.com/hacking-monitor-to-fix-too-bright-screens-26-09-2007/

>>2221737
Not worth it if you just want multiformat. Use a trinitron CRT PC monitor for 480p+, and any 20" PVM for 15khz.

Drop by, if you have the time
>>>/g/46464710

>>2221737
For $300, absolutely not. 20L5s should be $100, $150 tops. Especially if you've got the 14L5 already. I mean, I have the 20L5, but looking at the manual, as far as I can tell there's nothing different about it beyond the sheer size of the unit. The 14L5 should be just as capable of doing 480p as the 20" model.

>>2221342
Are you sure that's an aperture grille monitor? I have an e773s and it's shadowmask.

>>2220447
That's an issue that's known with those monitors. It can be fixed.

Hardforum has multiple threads about the subject. (note this is about the FW900 but other monitors have the same issue).

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1830788

>>2222024
Last time I used it, there were two horizontal lines, and it looked a lot like all the Trinitron pictures.
Could it be the brightness problem that also affects the FW900 as far as I have heard?

Picked a 21 inch Trinitron with component for free off craigslist, and it looks good besides minor geometry and convergence issues. Although there's also a faintly slight horizontal jitter noticeable if you get close to the TV... looks like interference maybe but I don't get that on other TVs with the same hookup. It's also more noticeable at 480i than 240p.

Geometry should be easily fixable in the service menu, right? But the convergence and the jitter, am I screwed unless I open the sucker up?

The girlfriend won't let me keep two CRTs anyway, I might have to put it back up on craigslist. I know it sounds lame...but I want it to go to a good home. Someone who can properly fix it, or at least appreciate it for what it is. Probably not going to happen though.

>>2213351
RyuZero

>>2222021
where do you guys get such good CRT's for not a ton of money?

Would a crt be recommended for playing games such as deus ex and diablo on pc?

>>2225107
CRT PC monitors are good for any game. As long as you don't mind the aspect ratio.

so guys i'm looking for the best display for smash. i'm in eastern canada so shipping is going to a bitch. i highly doubt there's any place locally that sells them, so internet is likely my best bet. besides ebay, which i've already checked (and subsequently vomited @ the prices), where should i be looking? is asking stores a viable method? target is closing down nationwide, but it seems doubtful i'd be able to buy equipment from them. i'm willing to pay about 250-350 in total. should i settle for a crt tv, is that an unreasonable price range?

i'm completely new to this game, obviously. any advice would be appreciated.

>>2225716
fucking spoiler tags, forgot which site i was on for a moment

>>2225716
You're not gonna find CRTs for sale in any big box stores, you need to look in secondhand stores like Goodwill.

Assuming you want to play Melee, the ideal setup is a first gen Gamecube with component cables outputting to a 4:3 CRT that supports 480p.

You can either look for a multiformat PVM or BVM, or a consumer model HD-CRT. Based on your budget, I'd recommend the latter, as consumer models are available much more cheaply and will let you put the rest towards the Gamecube's expensive component cables.

Check your local craigslist or Kijiji, mine is full of 32-36 inch HD Trinitrons, and make rounds of the local thrift/secondhand stores. HD-CRTs will usually have HD logos on the front, and some (but not all) will have digital inputs like DVI or HDMI. If you're unsure, get the model # and ask us.

>>2225817
>You're not gonna find CRTs for sale in any big box stores,
That I understand, however, I was mostly thinking of the security monitors and what not. Though since they only opened up like last year I doubt they'd even have CRT monitors, and either way, getting a hold of theirs would probably be near impossible.
>you need to look in secondhand stores like Goodwill
yeah, that's an option that's i've certainly considered.
>Assuming you want to play Melee, the ideal setup is a first gen Gamecube with component cables outputting to a 4:3 CRT that supports 480p.
>You can either look for a multiformat PVM or BVM, or a consumer model HD-CRT. Based on your budget, I'd recommend the latter, as consumer models are available much more cheaply and will let you put the rest towards the Gamecube's expensive component cables.

yeah, melee is priority 1, but PM is good too. Getting a cube isn't an issue, but re the cables: you're suggesting it'd be more worthwhile to allocate money towards them as opposed to a better display? seeing as i'll probably also be using the display for other purposes (primarily Wii, eg PM, 20xx mod, and emulation), would the balance still be towards component cables? words can't describe how weird it feels to consider dropping 200+ on cables.

>Check your local craigslist or Kijiji, mine is full of 32-36 inch HD Trinitrons, and make rounds of the local thrift/secondhand stores. HD-CRTs will usually have HD logos on the front, and some (but not all) will have digital inputs like DVI or HDMI. If you're unsure, get the model # and ask us.
thanks, i check kijiji multiple times daily but i've been meaning to hit up second hand stores. i'll definitely come back around for anything i'm not sure of.

>>2225857
>you're suggesting it'd be more worthwhile to allocate money towards them as opposed to a better display?
Component is the highest quality video you'll have access to, and the only way to get 480p. If you spend your money on a multiformat PVM or BVM and feed it composite or s-video, you'd have the better display, but an inferior video signal at 480i.

Component video from Wii is inferior to the GCN's, but the cables are much cheaper and can also send 480p signals, so that would be the route to go if you're pursuing a multiformat PVM/BVM.

I personally use a PVM for SD games and consumer HD-CRTs for 6th gen stuff.

>>2225716
Buying a ~$200 component cable for the gamecube is stupid. Get a Wii and a Wii component cable - pretty sure monoprice still sells those.

As for the TV you play it on, you want a CRT. Full stop. You want it to have a component video input (that's three cables colored red, blue, and green). Sony Trinitrons are the standard for consumer-level CRT TVs you might be able to find used. The most modern models are their WEGA line, but be careful of the model you find:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

You do NOT want the Hi-scan or Super Fine Pitch models - they will upscale the signal and add lag and ugliness to it. A standard 480i model is what you want out of these.

>>2226212
But if you're willing to spend some money to actually go for the best possible display (and it appears like you are) then you should step into the world of professional monitors, namely the Sony PVM (professional video monitor) and BVM (broadcast video monitor, more accuracy for more money) lines.

PVMs commonly come in 8", 14", and 20" models. 14" is a decent size for a desktop display, but you could probably afford a 20" tube. These monitors were used at TV stations and for medical imaging, so TV stations and hospitals/medical supply warehouses might be willing to unload them cheap. Otherwise you can go pay ebay prices, which will include hefty shipping fees, considering the weight and bulk of these sets.

The important thing is to get a set with the inputs you want - for smash, component is a must, but not all PVMs took it. Note that RGB is NOT component video, even if it also uses 3 wires. PVMs that are compatible with component will have a set of inputs labelled "RGB/Component" on the back.

BVMs we can pretty much discount because they're probably out of your price range.

>>2226234
The ultimate in GCN/Wii picture quality, though, is 480p output. 480p has twice the pixels of the 480i most TVs accept; very few CRTs displayed 480p signals natively.

As far as I know, only 2 PVM models were made that could accept 480p: the 14L5 and the 20L5 (distinguished by their screen size). For smash, a 20L5 would be the perfect result, but it might be just out of your price range. For my 14L5, I paid 80 USD plus 80 USD shipping about a year ago, so that's a cheaper option.

I found a CRT on the side of the road. Works great, looks new, probably 20", has composite input on front and back, built in VCR (works fine) AND the remote was on top. This was 6 years ago, still best day of my life.

>>2226212
>Buying a ~$200 component cable for the gamecube is stupid. Get a Wii and a Wii component cable
There's one major exception why you still would want those cables: The Game Boy Player.

Also, if you have any skills with soldering, you can just get the cheaper D-Terminal cables. Got mine for $90. You can either solder on RCA jacks for Component or, if you want to really have a project, modify them to output RGB.

http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/ntsc-gamecube-rgb-cable/

>>2226520
Rather than performing surgery on them, you could just buy a D-Terminal to RCA adapter.

>>2226530
Refuses to accept the file and then uploads a different one entirely.

>>2219708
How about using something like the THS7316 from TI? I have a few of those waiting to go. Will only be used with one input at a time, no switching.

>>2219815
using S-Video if you have it is easiest, to get 480i

For more options like 240p look up either crt_emudriver for ATI cards, and Soft125kHz for NVidia. Be prepared to do a bit of reading and thinking. It's not hard, but you're unlikely to trip over the right combination of factors instantly.

>>2226234
How do you even get to buy it from a warehouse? I don't know any company that would openly trade expensive used parts with private consumers.

trying to snap a CRT with a phone is hard

i usually have it on sports/action mode

anyways, strikers 1945 ps1 [emulated on my ps2 with POPS]

Hoo boy, looks like I am getting a new TV!

>>2226520
>the gameboy player
Umm, have you heard of the Homebrew channel. Literally going to be the exact same experience in every way as a Gameboy player on the Wii.

Get on my level fags

I got a new old stock Electron 22 blue a 22" and
it blows away all of these shit monitors in this thread

>>2227764
>new old stock LaCie

I own a Diamondtron. Not gonna lie, I'm still mad jelly.

>>2227646
You mean Homebrew channel magically makes hardware appear so I can plug in my gameboy cartridges to the Wii?!??!?!?

>>2227782
Didn't you know?

>>2227764
dem walls

>>2227791
it was either the monitor or a house. i made due with some loose bricks in my neighbor's yard.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NEC-MultiSync-XM29-monitor-Big-29-CRT-Great-For-Video-Games-/321664095739?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae4ac95fb

NEC XM29 for Chicago fags, you lucky bastards.

>>2227646
Nope. GBA/GBC emulation on the Wii isn't perfect. You're stuck between choosing a slower emulator that gives you a proper, unscaled 240p image or a more optimized one that won't proper aspect ratio or scaling even in 480p. Even then you can still get slowdown.

GBPlayer and Swiss can get you clean 240p even with S-Video cables.

Call me when I can get RA's Gambette core to scale using MednafenWii,

>>2227820
Not for those prices and with those pictures.

>>2226539
I tried soft 15khz with s-video once, only got two small screens, like when you set to 480p on an interlaced display. Guessing it doesn't work with svideo?

>>2222736
Convergence I can't speak on as my WEGA doesn't have that problem. There's some horizontal linearity issues with mine and that isn't fixable through the service menu unfortunately. Any other geometry issues shouldn't be too hard to fix.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/caloundra/tv-dvd-players/tv-aiko-brand-for-spare-room-or-kids-room/1070390257

hi guys I've been looking for a scart tv and spotted this on Gumtree (aus trading site) I need to know if this tv has scart inside that punchout (see image 4 of 5) or if i will be able to connect the innards to a scart out.

>>2228237
there's nothing behind that punchout.
it's there so that they can use one plastic shell to fit models with and without a scart plug. They just punchout when the tv actually use it.

>>2228008
Can you get Soft15kHz to affect the S-Video port? My 8800 won't find the port, only uses the two DVIs.

Either way i didn't think Soft15kHz was meant to work with the S-Video port, cos the S-Video port automatically outputs 480i. You should really find Sailorsat's thread on forum.ArcadeControls.com and ask about this.

>>2228246
Not him, but are you sure? How much extra hardware is needed, given a lot of TV's use RGB internally? I have no idea, just curious. A lot of PAL 1084s monitors have the cutout imprinted, and jacking one into RGB is something i may want to do one day

>>2228342
at best, you would probably need the scart socket plus some components and chips.
At worst, trace don't exist at all

also, you might not even be able to switch to that additional input.

remember that every industrialy made product is made with cost efficiency in mind. If it's not there, you can't add it (baring planned upgradablity)

Can anyone turn up any info on the PVM-2042QM? Google is not helping me...

>>2227646
>emulating
>2011
Shiggy nigger.

>>2228456
Older(very early 90s), mid range set.
Composite, S-Video, Analog(RGBs) and Digital(CGA) RGB
No Component; No OSD/service menu for adjustments

Trying to see if I can get my hands on the service manual for it; I'll link it if I do.

>>2213351

crossposting from another thread

guess this is an appropriate thread. I picked up a KV-32FS120 for free today on kijiji, along with an entertainment booth that fits it perfectly. at first i was amazing by the picture quality but now i guess nothing in life is free; there's a small path of flashing tubes right-of-center that are especially noticeable on darker screens; there's also slight yellow/orange discoloration in the bottom left corner. is there any way to fix these problems? apparently these aren't the best models from sony, with a lot of people having them die on them.

>>2229480
Weird, I have a KV-32FV27 avalible for me on Kijiji for free. Worth dragging it over? These are SD sets, correct? No 480p display?

>>2228342
Thanks, I'll check out the forum. Upon reading more, I think it's probably intended for VGA to JAMMA converter for a mame cabinet.

>>2229487
yeah, sd, no 480. thing is heavy as fuck. check it first and if everything seems good to go, it's probably worth hauling over if you need it. i dont really regret picking up mine despite the issues, because the tv i had was even worse and it came with the free wooden set thing which is handy.

>>2229514
no 480p that is

>>2229514
So if you want to play a 480p PS2 game, you'd have to change it over?

>>2229520
well, i guess so. mine only does 480i. you'd have to check your model in specific if it supports 480p, my guts feeling says no.

>>2229487
>>2229523
Here's every single model with all the specifications. Pretty handy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

>>2229480
I have the same tv, it's what this picture is from. Big, thick scanlines for 240p content, no 480p but PS2 games look fine at 480i over component or s-video.

I don't see anything wrong with using CRT monitors, they're still better than LEDs.

Most of the criticism of their use basically boils down to "muh authentic arcade look" or some shit.

>>2229991
meant to quote
>>2229986

>>2229887
I don't think there is an SD Trinitron that does 480p

So I just bought a VGA box for my dreamcast and the picture quality is pretty good... except for faint vertical stripes across the screen uniformly. I've tried multiple dreamcasts and I've tried other devices on the monitor through VGA and it has to be the VGA box that's the problem.

It's the clear one that also does s-video I see all over the place on amazon, youtube, etc. None of the reviews mention this problem, so it's a bit disconcerting.

Anyway, anyone have a suggestion a cheap VGA box? I'd prefer not to spend over 30 bucks, and I'm not going to mod my DC for it. Or if anyone has experience with this problem and knows how to fix it, that'd be great too.

>>2230002
You are correct, someone was asking if it did.

The consumer SD Trinis do 240p or 480i, and the ED/HD models do 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i. PAL ED/HD models probably do 576i/p too.

Multiformat PVM/BVMs are the only Trinis that can do proper SD or HD content.

>>2230004
I have one made by Performance, which I don't think had this issue, or at least not that I recall. Been a while since I used it.

>do my daily search for crts on craigslist
>first result: NEC XM37 plus. $100

OH HOLY TITS

>>2230245
Did you get it? Is it in good shape? If so congrats! I had to pay like 3x that for my nearly new XP29+.

>>2230254
Only emailed. I just need to sort out how to move the thing. I've got a car it will fit in, just I'm short on manpower.

>>2230260
Good luck getting people to help since I'd imagine that it'll go quickly. I'd gladly lend a hand, but I doubt I live nearby (don't see it on my local cl).

An XM29 on ebay now is already around $230. I'm really curious to see what it sells for, honestly. I kinda felt like I overpaid for my XP29 last year, but all things considered I'm glad I went for it.

Hi guys, i've got a pvm 14m4e (europe version of 14m4u). I've kinda fucked up my settings and am panicking now. Can anyone tell me step by step how to reset the thing to defaults? Please don't just link me to the manual I have no idea what it's talking about.

(picture not representative)

>>2228648
Would be much appreciated. Even the regular spec sheet or operating manual would be handy :)

I also found these locations for PVM manuals:
>https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/sony-operation-manual.aspx
>http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?248672-PVM-Service-Manuals-20M2MDU-and-others

And fuck me someone put up a few old Medical PVM's including a 20L2MD for $75 yesterday, right near me. I rang the guy and he apologised and said they'd sold inside ten minutes to someone going for long-distance shipping.

>>2230341
Anyone got the pastebin link from the real OP? Should have the PVM-14M4E/U/A Service Manual in there. Or try the neo-geo forum link in the post above this
>>2230369

>>2230371
oops, it's not on the neo-geo link, but the SM for the 20M4E is, which will have the same controls and settings.

>>2230341
>Please don't just link me to the manual I have no idea what it's talking about.
>>2230371
Anyone got the pastebin link from the real OP? Should have the PVM-14M4E/U/A Service Manual in there. Or try the neo-geo forum link in the post above this

>>2230374
ok ok. So..

Go through the regular OSD menus and see if there's anything about resetting your settings in there. From Shmups forum:
>Usually the menu reset function is in the menu. Usually the last option pane.

If not, study page 16 of the SM. If you've made adjustments already, go to those settings and read page 17 and set each line back to what it should be by default (STD).

If that fails, try to read each setting from the ROM (point 8, page 16). Or push the B/O (Blue Only) button a few times while it tries to read data, and that should pull the factory defaults system wide for the service menu but also the regular menus too. Be careful, because there's one or two stories of this killing older PVMs. You might have to do this for all settings one at a time, but I think this is the factory reset. It's point 10, page 16.

There's also the last item in the service menu, but i'm not really sure how it works.
>120 Factory Set Flag

>>2229887
i take it you dont have any of the issues i've described?

>>2230421
No sir. And I wouldn't be able to troubleshoot them, so I didn't say anything.

>>2230430
yeah, fair enough. i doubt they will easily be fixable. i dont mind that the tv doesn't work 100%, but it is heavy as fuck and i really dont look forward to moving it when i get a replacement

>>2230374
I've been fighting with mediafire, trying to get it to upload there for a while now. It's just this one file that refuses to upload.

Have this.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5diaan71goesmih/SONY%20PVM%202044QM%20%28service%20manual%29.pdf?dl=0

>>2230374
OP is in >>2219134, but it still hasn't been updated. Really need to get on that.

>>2230341
beautiful
i wonder is the ps2 version of LB2 240p

Hey guys I'm looking for some advice.

I found someone selling a sony BVM-2015P "20 near my location. Is this a good monitor for retro games? I'm still fairly new to this.

>>2229991
No the colours are shit as well.

>>2229991
No the colours are shit as well.

>>2230958
How much?

>>2231005
100 euro

>>2230958

Yeah, get it. Those things look sweet. Test it first, but from what I know, the whole BVM line is pretty stellar. Someone correct me if I'm wrong before this guy drops 100 euros on it.

At a thrift store with a Mace 21G and a Dell M782. Does anyone have any information on either for retro? The mace only has rf I think.

>>2227639
update. It weighs 165 pounds, and I just now got it up the stairs with the help of a friend.

>>2231002
>CRT monitors used in color-critical work until IPS panels became widespread
>shit colors

>>2231226
GJ man :)

are the crt pc monitors that accept ypbpr component cables?
If so, could someone mention some models?

>>2231929
That guy said the only reason people bought CRTs was for a retro look, I said no they [LEDs] have shit colours as well.

>>2231929
>IPS

>>2231102
>Dell M782

It's not bad. It can do 1600x1200, but at 65hz instead of the ideal 85hz which may be harder on your eyes.

>>2231949
No, pc crt monitors do not accept component.

>>2231950
I thought you were saying CRT monitors were the ones with shit colors.

Rounded CRT pixels a best. Seriously, fuck big boxy pixels. Games look like shit that way.

my ps2 playing ps1 games is my only source of 240p

>>2232295
I heard here that the PS2 kicks ass at playing PS1 games.

>>2232301
yeah my spindle is actually broke and i use POPSTARTER off usb, they take a little bit to start up but most games i've tried play perfectly

>>2231002
subjective as fuark

I need help finding the original service menu values for the Sony KV-32FS120. Closest thing i think I've found so far has been this:http://www.manualslib.com/manual/471404/Sony-Kv-27fs320.html?page=47#manual

but when i start putting the values to the default, things almost seem to make even less sense, so I've stopped after doing the first 30 or so. Should I just run all the way through and check em, or are these not even the factory default settings?

>>2232691
Each set has its settings tweaked before leaving the factory. Going back to factory defaults doesn't work like you'd want it to.

You have to figure out what specifically needs changed for your set and work from there.

>>2232697
well, that's a pain. i got it with the the bottom corners already messed up, and i noticed now there is horizontal bending of sorts, but i don't think that was my fault cause i never overwrote the settings while flipping through the menu (though i did casually tinker with things to figure out what shit was). but yeah just went through and put the default values which fixed nothing really. i'll just go ahead and not input these settings. what a headache

Dell Trinitron UltraScan 1600HS Series D1626HT

Is this a good CRT?

>>2232947
If it's in good condition, hell yes. It can easily do 1600x1200@85Hz. It's a great all-around monitor. It's really big, though.

>>2232947
Yeah, 21-inch, 1600x1200 at 85Hz, and a Trinitron tube make that a good fucking monitor.

>>2232691
Is this any help?
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?248996-Sony-WEGA-Trinitron-CRT-TV-service-menu-Tips-Tricks-and-settings-suggestions

if I buy an hd crt to play 480p and 720p games at native resolution, will they have input lag, or do those tvs only have input lag when upscaling to 1080i or 240p games to higher resolutions?

>>2233031
You are correct, there is only input lag when the tv is upscaling a lower res to a higher res.

I've been thinking about building a MAME cabinet and was wondering if a Sony PVM would be a good choice for it. Good picture quality, box shape, S-video support, sounds good to me.

But, what model/size specifically would be good, what's a good price and where do I start looking to find one? Would /vr/ folk even recommend it or should I just try to find a 15khz arcade screen instead?

>VC Majora's Mask is 480i only
Fuck

>>2234375
>what model/size specifically would be good
That really all depends on what you want to do; You could hypothetically get a little MAME setup going with an 8'' or even 5'' screen, though it would be hilariously small.
If you're looking for something a bit more full sized, 19/20" models would be where you'd what to start looking.

>what's a good price and where do I start looking to find one?
Depends on where you are, the condition/age of it, and whether you'll need to have it shipped to you or not. Craigslist is always a good first place to check, but unless you're in one of the hotspots for them, SoCal and NYC/NJ, you probably won't see any. You'll definitely be able to find some on ebay, though with this route you have to take shipping into consideration as well as not being able to check it out in person. On top of this, they tend to be more expensive, ignoring bits of luck here and there.
If you know of any electronics recycling centers in your area, you may have some luck there.

>or should I just try to find a 15khz arcade screen instead?
Considering with a PVM, you already have an easy way to connect and feed various inputs to the monitor, it would be the technically easier option to set up. Even more so if you ever get the itch to connect up a console or two to it.

If you do go the PVM route, I would hope that you'd build a shelf to place it on rather than gutting it.

>>2234395
>If you do go the PVM route, I would hope that you'd build a shelf to place it on rather than gutting it.

That's why I like the box shape of them, they'll fit in nicely and waste less space on the sides of the cabinet.

Unfortunately checking on craigslist gives no results for "pvm" in any nearby locations. Closest one is in Toronto (I'm in Western NY) and it's only a 14-inch model. eBay has better albeit more expensive results. I can't find anything reasonably priced that isn't pickup only and outside my pickup range. I'll stay on the lookout though.

So my grandparents have had this TV since the early 90's, and it's what I used to watch Batman: The Animated Series on in the early to mid 90's. It's a Trinitron and it looks amazing, even today after nearly ~20 years of usage.

>>2234668
The back inputs (Input 2 is in the front and is composite).

>>2234668
This is the remote it uses. I assume it came with it because they are very technology illiterate, even for things like this.

Any idea what the model of this TV is? I can't emphasize enough how good the picture quality is, TV looks so good on it even in 2015.

>>2234678

It must have the model number printed somewhere on it. Look harder.

Does anyone in here have experience with large 4:3 aspect ratio HD CRT televisions and monitors?

I have noticed over time that many television series are being re-scanned in HD and released in 4:3 (like Star Trek: TNG). And it also appears high resolution texture packs are becoming more popular. You can now play Ocarina of Time and other N64 games with graphics that approach Xbox 360/PS3 quality (and sometimes even surpass in certain aspects).

It seems to me that a television like the Sony XBR800 series would be the perfect display for these sorts of things. Huge, 4:3 aspect ratio, and 1080i picture.

>>2232947
Yes, you could play today's PC games on it and it would be very, very hard to beat in terms of image quality.

>>2227764
It's pretty bad ass, I'll give you that. Take some photos of it in action.

>>2226212

The component output from the Gamecube is slightly better than the Wii.

>>2232293
This is why I prefer dot triad and cromaclear monitors over aperture grille.

>>2234735
Even aperture grille pixels still have a bit of roundness to them.

>>2234668
>>2234681
sadly, I think the model number is in the back of the TV, but the stand is a cubby so you can't see the back of the CRT. Oh well.

>>2227764
lacie is shit tier man

Hey /vr/. How is playing on a 6" PVM like? More specifically pic related. What would be a reasonable price for this?

>>2235023
>6"
A bit too small m8, it's like playing vidya on a watchman or another king of handheld TV.

>>2235023
I would reckon that you would not want a 6-9" model for primary use. They do seem quite attractive for toting around for shits and giggles however.

>>2234712
>Texture mod
BLECH

I can say that you are just as good watching stuff in it's original resolution on a professional quality CRT, assuming the source material is good. High bitrate and good codec, no ancient vhs rips and what have you. Large consumer CRTs are bound to have geometry and convergence issues, especially widescreen models. Most of the better late models are widescreen, so you'd probably end up finding one of them even for 4:3 use. Even if it was in good condition, you are still trading picture quality for size compared to a good 20" set.

Also, I've done some more work with my CRT driving setup. S video output works perfectly fine at 480i and I suspect 240p as well, whereas VGA>RGB somehow forces a 240p output even when internal rendering is 480i. I need to get a din9 to component cable and hope that everything works with component, as the s video picture quality isn't quite ideal. Still, the forced 240p was getting on my nerves, even if the color/contrast quality was and is still absolutely stunning.

A NOTE FOR ANYONE PLANNING ON USING A COMPUTER TO DRIVE A PVM AT INTERLACED RESOLUTIONS: Shit is a huge PITA to get working via RGB/VGA, consider your "TV Out" instead. You should have once, since you should be using a radeon 2k, 3k, or 4k series card anyway. Also don't plan on getting one to work from your normal desktop, again shit is a pain and you've gotta fuck around a lot with drivers. Try to set aside an old desktop for the job. 775 gear is cheap.

>>2226530
Whoa, why isn't this a more common thing?

>>2234728
The difference is minuscule, and debated of which looks better.

>>2226520
>>2226530
I've never heard of these, what's the point of a d-terminal cable? Do Japanese TVs have D-terminal in place of VGA?

>>2235094
?

>>2235127
It's essentially just a secure adapter for transmitting Component video. Think BNC in comparison to RCA.
It also has a few data pins for determining resolution, video mode and aspect ratio, so I guess comparing it to VGA could work in a way.


I was just thinking; I know that you're able to modify the Component/D-Terminal cable to output 480p RGB, but I'm wondering how difficult it would be to modify it in such a way so as to be able to switch between RGB and Component output.

I'm not terribly electronically inclined but installing a switch for swapping between having pin 12 connected correctly/set to the DetectLine and adding a breakout for HV sync should be all that's needed, right?
Have switch in position one, it acts as normal and provides Component and SoG works; Place in position 2 and it drops SoG, activates H and V and outputs RGB.

>>2235023
Using those is fine provided that you have it close by like on a desk like I have mine. Aside from that I'd stay away and just get a 14 inch or better yet a 20 inch.

As far as price goes, I'd say between 30-60 is a good range. I got my 8 inch for 50.

>>2235053
Man, for seeming so authoritative in your post you seem to lack a lot of experience and knowledge.

>I can say that you are just as good watching stuff in it's original resolution on a professional quality CRT

Well...no. Many shows look better in HD. Whether or not it is preferable to watch them as they originally aired is up to a lot of interpretation. But from a purely technical perspective an HD re-release of a show is superior.

>Large consumer CRTs are bound to have geometry and convergence issues, especially widescreen models.

This is very exaggerated, and is correctable. Compared to the vast majority of CRTs out there something like a Sony WEGA series comes out of the box with excellent convergence and geometry. They blow away the television based competition. The only things that are routinely better are PC monitors and Pro spec monitors. With access to the service menu these two settings can be further improved to the point of diminishing returns.

> Most of the better late models are widescreen, so you'd probably end up finding one of them even for 4:3 use.

Except if you want the largest 4:3 picture possible while maintaining a highly detailed image. Among huge HD CRT televisions you have a few choices.

>Loewe Aconda
>Sony XBR800
>RCA FC3810

And their related models. You may also include the late model Mitsubishi Megaview series units, which can technically sync 1080i.

Among these you have a variety of downsides, notably the absence of an aperture grille in all but the Sony models. This prevents the competitors from reaching the highest clarity you can get from a Super Fine Pitch screen.

The Sony XBR800 has a Super Fine Pitch screen, and it is also the second largest production CRT I've heard of. Only the AM4201 is larger, and it does not have useful 1080i capability (it may technically sync to this resolution but the result would likely be dark and fuzzy). And it is not SPF.

cont.

>>2236197
>A NOTE FOR ANYONE PLANNING ON USING A COMPUTER TO DRIVE A PVM AT INTERLACED RESOLUTIONS: Shit is a huge PITA to get working via RGB/VGA

All you have to do is Install Soft 15khz. That will let you pick 640x480i or 800x600i using the default configuration. There are probably newer methods of doing it, but I know that one works and it is literally 2 steps.

How do I get my hands on a PVM without
a) living in NY/Cali
b) paying $100 bucks in shipping through ebay (just to find out the TV is fubar)

>>2236197

Correction: The Sony KV-40XBR800 only has the Hi-Scan screen. It is the Sony KD-36XS955 with the Super Fine Pitch screen, making it the largest + highest quality combo 4:3 CRT released.

>>2236208

Look on craigslist, and be willing to drive a few hours to pick it up.

You can also call up medical equipment surplus companies.

Also, check this guy's geometry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gwvYErdz5pI#t=429

>>2236221
What about hospitals themselves? There are a couple nearby. What is the possibility they'd still have endoscopy monitors laying around? I feel like they must've cleared those out like a decade ago.

>>2236208
You could just get an upscaler.

>>2236232
Yes, it's worth a shot. They can at least give you a lead on where they get their monitors. Get in contact with with whoever is performing maintenance and see what you can find.

Another good thing to remember is PVMs are not the entire world of good RGB-enabled CRTs. Keep an eye out for any kind of CRT used in vintage computing like a Commodore 1084 or other CGA monitor.

>>2236208
List your location and I'll see if I can find something.

>>2236252
philadelphia.

>>2236248
apples and oranges

>>2236249
Will do. Maybe I'll get really lucky or something. Being able to get a PVM from a block away is definitely more appealing than paying a ton on ebay and crossing my fingers and hoping everything works okay.

>>2236261
>Philly

Man, you've got to be kidding. Philly and its surrounding area has tons of PVMs posted. If I can drive all the goddamn way to Atlantic City for mine you can drive over to Garnet Valley
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/wan/4850383168.html

>>2236267
>$150
might as well just buy one off ebay for that price
also, being a center city dweller, I have no car

>>2236261
>apples and oranges
I don't know. I posted an image in the thread from an upscaler to see if anyone would notice. No one replied.

>>2236272
Well then I don't know what to tell you. As far as the listing goes it looks like he's the original owner, which means it hasn't been left on 24/7 like most monitors have been, so assuming the story checks out that's not a bad deal at all considering those monitors are $300 shipped.

How do you expect to get a local CRT without a car, anyway? Take it on the Septa with you?

>>2236286
City is a densely populated place, so *you'd think* that would mean a much higher probability of finding something you want close by.

Sadly, this doesn't seem to be the case. philadelphia itself is mostly a black hole when it comes to craigslist, with most stuff being far out in the surrounding towns.

>>2236275
Was it >>2234773 ? Because that's pretty obviously a scanline filter on an LCD. I didn't respond to it because I know how these threads tend to derail over this shit.

>>2236309
That's one of them but you're just guessing because there's no filters in any of the pictures I take. And they look identical to a PVM unless you get so close up to see individual pixels so.

>>2236301
Well, I'll tell you I've lurked Craigslist for PVMs for about three years now -- at least before /vr/'s conception -- and I've never, ever seen one pop up either in the city or its immediate suburbs like Cheltenham or Abington or whatever. The luckiest you usually get is in the middle of Jersey, and usually North Jersey where you're basically driving to New York at that. I'm honestly shocked there's a listing somewhere as closet as Garnet Valley, and in [supposedly] such good condition, too. If I didn't already have mine I'd snatch it right up.

On an amusing note, this dude's been desperately listing this PVM for literally as long as I've started looking. I don't know if he just has it automatically listed every month but it's seriously been constant since 2012. He just doesn't get the hint that his monitor's not worth $400.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pho/4830790405.html

>>2236315
Even PVM pixels have a very slight roundness to them, and adjacent pixels of similar color tend to blur together a bit to create a gradient effect (more common on consumer CRTs, but still present to an extent even on PVMs). The pixels on that pic are square as fuck and there's zero gradient effect. Even with the bad picture quality it's transparent as hell.

>>2236325
Maybe you feed it a poor signal? PVMs I see have pretty sharp pixels.

>>2236320
I just noticed he'd actually delivery for an extra 25. I might actually consider hitting him up and working down the price. After I try asking the hospitals if they have anything, that is.

And yeah, I saw that other listing too. 2 years listing that and still firm on the price is a bit sad. But that seems to be the standard for craiglist, at least around here. Every asshole thinks his old trash video games are worth 50 bucks each or something ridiculous

>>2236336
Another thing: even poor screenshots of PVM monitors tend to have SOME kind of moire pattern going on due to the aperture grille. Shots of LCD monitors rarely have that going on unless it's a very low-res monitor or it's extremely close up.

>>2236343
Depends on the size of the screen. LCDs get a moire pattern too when you take a picture.

>>2236315
>but you're just guessing
Did you ever think that people just didn't feel the need to respond to it? Not every photo gets a response.

That picture wouldn't even be that out of place if it wasn't for the crazy difference in sharpness between the foreground elements and the background, and in turn the regularity of the scanlines.
The platform and Sonic/Tails have a very consistent, very sharp effect applied to them while the background(especially the red tones) manages to muddy together completely

>>2236451
All my pics are of BVM, PVM, other CRT monitors or commercial CRT sets. Or an upscaler. I use no filters so if you say that then yes you're just guessing.

>>2236460
I can't speak for him, but when I say effect, I do not mean a filter; Just the visual effect that it gives off.

>>2236465
You also got to take into account the camera is only as few inches from the screen. In actual viewing they look the exact same. I'd give the nod to the scaled image.
No emulation or filters.

>>2236470
My photo is also taken from about 6 or 7 inches and scaled down to match yours.

>>2236480
My point is there isn't a whole lot of sense in going so far out of your way to by a used PVM with ??????? hours on it.

>>2236481
Not when Framemeisters are balls expensive and still suffer from motion blur.

Hell, if you really want to be stingy you may as well just say a 120Hz monitor with lightboost on Retroarch is the best way to go. Which is kind of a ridiculous setup for something a CRT does more conveniently and cheaper to boot.

>>2236489
Motion blur? The 2 pics I posted are from an xrgb3 btw.

>>2236490
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

Motion blur.

>>2236491
That depends entirely on your monitor or tv. Not a flaw with the micomsoft scalers.
My Sony doesn't have any noticeable blur.

>>2236492
Motion blur in this case isn't so much a flaw with the scalers as it is LCD as a display technology itself.
Look up "sample and hold blur". As >>2236489 mentioned, without BFI, Lightboost, or some type of interpolation, you're going to have some amount of blur. The display itself does effect this though; Some will obviously be worse than others.

I could have sworn I had mentioned sample and hold and motion quality somewhere in the pastebin; Guess that's just another thing on the pile that needs added.

>>2236508
I'm not saying it's not there but at least with the Sony motion flow settings and even with out them the Sony TVs are pretty damn good about that.

I'm thinking of picking up a small CRT to put on my desk. Something that won't take up too much space, as my room really has nowhere else to put such a thing. Any suggestions for a commonplace one of relatively small size?

I was thinking of the Commodore 1902, but I'm not sure if I should go smaller.

Just picked up a Dell Trinitron UltraScan P991 for free on craigslist. Thought it was nothing special but actually looks gorgeous. Not sure if my phone can take good pics but I'll try in a bit.

I had it on for about 30 mins and the geometry was slipping quite a bit. Is this common? Power cord seems a little weird.

>>2236275
I had suspicions about

>>2229198

because it seemed a little bit -too- perfect.

>>2235119
Nah, Gamecube wins by a clear margin.

>>2235353
480p RGBS or 480p RGBHV?

>>2235353
The GC can output SoG? I never knew...

>>2236481
LCD cannot upscale. Period.
Keep it native res.

>>2236569

nope anon, that's my trinitron KV21 M3L, with graffiti on it and mono sound.

all it took was some cheapo chinese RGB scart cables to get that quality

i wonder would the official sony ones be any better

>>2216946
A CRT also means no input lag

>>2229198 here

I'm bored, what are some PS1 games that will look great in 240p

>>2236948
symphony of the night

>>2236778
Uh, of course LCDs can upscale. They HAVE to in order to display low-res images at full screen. The thing is, they do a terrible job of it.

My geometry on my new-to-me Trinitron is fucked. I just decreased the horizontal/vertical size all the way, but the picture is curved and the top has a dip on the left. The bottom flickers and the top is having a convergence issue (I can see Red, Green, Blue where it should be white). On top of that I can't see the whole image horizontally. Is it fubar? Can that convergence issue be fixed?

>>2237141
whoa, whoops.

>>2236664
With the cable, it's outputting Component, so it has no other choice but to output "SoG". I'm just speaking what I've read about the cable's DAC. When pin 12 is set to ground, it outputs YPbPr; Connecting this to DetectCable sets it into RGB mode, which drops the SoG that was running with Y(now Green) and starts outputting Horizontal and Vertical sync on two other pins.

>>2237063
>>2236778
Is why you use an upscaler.
>>2236819
My set up has sub 1 frame of lag. There is no lag.
>>2216946
Smash tournaments are among the most unprofessional and comedic e sports out there.

Does anyone have the Commodore 1902? Have any comments on it?

There's a couple in my local classifieds and I was thinking of picking one up, but I'm not sure if I should just get a TV instead.

>>2237218
>Is why you use an upscaler.

>still have shitty motion quality
>still have poor contrasts
>still have greyish black
>still have poor colors

There's a reason why I've never switched to LCD.

>>2237223

The only Commodore monitor I own is a 1085S-D3, but according to the community, most Commodore monitors are really nice. How much are they?

>>2237239
$30 each. Better than I've seen before, at least.

>>2237239
>There's a reason why I've never switched to LCD.
Maybe you should try a LCD you didn't get out of a dumpster or costs more than $50.
Because none of that shit is really a problem on a good LCD.

>>2237223
http://gona.mactar.hu/Commodore/monitor/Commodore_monitors_by_model_number.html suggests that it'll do composite and s-video; The RGB input would be neat if you were looking to use it with an old PC, but not much else.

>>2237242
>Because none of that shit is really a problem on a good LCD.

Colors are still inferior, contrasts are still inferior, the black level is still meh, and don't talk about motion quality (I convinced some guy to give a try to CRT monitors, his first feedback was how even at 85Hz, it was way smoother than his 144Hz BenQ).
I know a few friends who own IPS monitors, colors and contrasts are better than your everyday LCD, but still pale in comparison to CRTs, there's a reason why they made OLED.

>>2237269
>Colors are still inferior, contrasts are still inferior, the black level is still meh
Have you not looked at TVs recently? Modern LCD TVs have made leaps in those areas. There's no point in comparing because they have surpassed anything a CRT or Plasma can do. Have to pay out the ass for an OLED set but the less expensive but still high end sets with VA and IPS panels are still very good.

Also panel type doesn't matter that much. Matters more about the overall quality of the set. Those $500 OLED TVs are not good at all.

>>2237141
>I just decreased the horizontal/vertical size all the way
Be careful with this.
>but the picture is curved and the top has a dip on the left.
This is why i dislike flat CRTs.
Imperfect geometry look very terrible on them, on a curved Trinitron it looks not as bad as the screen is curved.
Perhaps you should check if there are any magnets near behind the set. Maybe move it somewhere else and see if it changes. Make the screen face east or west for the minimum influence of the earth magnet field, this also has a certain effect on convergence.
I converged my KV-M1420D facing west and made it look quite perfect, now it's facing around north-east and the convergence on the upper half is quite off and bottom is spot on.
Either converge it when it's on the place where you want to place the set, then it might get very bad if make it face to a different direction.
Or do it while it's facing wither east or west and the convergence should be okay for every direction.

>The bottom flickers
Might be normal as the TV shows more than it should, this glitchy deflection is normally hidden by overscan.
It might be caused by your pattern generator. For example the interlaced output of the SNES tends get the first 5 lines displayed apart, at least for me.

>and the top is having a convergence issue (I can see Red, Green, Blue where it should be white).
I think these are the automatic cutoff test lines (a line of black followed by R,G,B), all my Trinitrons (with TDA/TEA chips from Siemens/Philips/STmicroelectronics) have them except for the not sooo great KV-M1450D i have (with Motorola chips), which has these insanely bright and it reflects to the screen very badly.
These lines are normally hidden in the overscan.

My personal recommendation is to adjust your overscan to 5% relative to BT.601.
Both sides of the SNES should be a very little cutoff (1-3 pixels on each side), adjust the vertical size that around 214 lines on 60hz are visible.

Can we get a list of /vr/ approved CRT televisions?

Maybe like a top 20 list of the best CRT televisions for retro gaming.

>>2237301
A /vr/ approved list would make more sense than a 'top 20' list, seeing as the sheer amount of acceptable CRTs out there is kind of insane.

Of course, if an anon compiled a list of commonplace quality CRTs, that would be great.

What would be the best way to clean the inside(the case) portion of a CRT? Assuming it hasn't been on recently, would it be safe?
Tube, not circuits.

>>2237310
>What would be the best way to clean the inside(the case) portion of a CRT?
Dust it off with compressed air then carefully clean it with water (i always do that with plastic) and pay attention to stickers and non-plastic things like metal, better dry them off first.
This procedure is not very different from all other kinds of used electronics i bought.

>Assuming it hasn't been on recently, would it be safe?
Check for any burns or bulged, leaked, exploded capacitors.
Inspect the solder side as well for any damage.

>Tube, not circuits.
Do you mean you have a CRT TV with valve tubes?

>>2237293
>Have you not looked at TVs recently? Modern LCD TVs have made leaps in those areas
Yes I did, last time I passed through a store selling TVs was like a month ago or two, and after watching a few of them, I can say they're still no match for my good old CRTs. Yes, they'll beat any chinese junk CRT, but no decent one.

>There's no point in comparing because they have surpassed anything a CRT [...]
They haven't. A well calibrated CRT still beat them. As I said, I know a few people with IPS monitors, one bough his like 2 years ago, and they're still not on par with my best CRTs.
And even if the colors and contrasts are nicer and nicer on LCDs, motion quality still isn't as good.

>>2237319
I mean for cleaning the CRT itself, not the circuit boards that drive it. The tube is a very nasty shade of brown.

>>2237328
You're pretty ignorant about the topic then. Don't know what to tell you.

>>2237296
>Be careful with this.
I just changed it for the photo, didn't set it. Why the warning though, can't it be increased again?

>>2236197
>But from a purely technical perspective an HD re-release of a show is superior.
I would argue that as long as the pixel density to viewing distance is adequate, color and contrast are more important, but that's subjective really.

>something like a Sony WEGA series comes out of the box with excellent convergence and geometry.
Out of the box it probably did, but the issue is all of these TVs are almost 10 years old at best, and you've got to move them to wherever you want them as well. There is a very good chance that sometime between when it was bought, moved to the first owner, used for years, and then moved to your house, it's going to have lost some accuracy. While high end models have much more flexibility in the service menu, there is still only so much it can do. Now if you are willing to learn the art of convergence strips and manual yolk adjustments then you might be able to get it all sorted out, but it's a lot of work and I never could begin to get the hang of it.

I'd be very surprised to see any SFP for sale in a reasonable price range that doesn't at least have some geometry or convergence issues in the corners.

>>2236203
Doesn't work in 7. CRT emudriver does, but I suspect I've got a hardware issue with the graphics card. Assuming component works (which I haven't tested yet), it would be a comparable solution to RGB but a hell of a lot easier to get working. This being said, I do not believe that the s video/component output does progressive scan or <480i, so you would still need RGB output for these resolutions.

>>2236521
19" CRTs are bigger than you think, if size is a concern look for 13-14".

>>2237301
>>2237309
The issue with this is the condition of the TV takes priority over the model. It'd basically just say "Sony trinitron (consumer)" "Sony PVM/BVM" "Panasonic/JVC/Ikegami/NEC professional models" "Computer CRTs (old)" "Computer CRTs (new)"

>>2237337
Yeah, i actually removed the tube from my KV-M1420D to repair the damaged case because some fucks at DHL didn't care about their customers.

>The tube is a very nasty shade of brown.
Mine too at the cathode. I used some rubber alcohol with paper towels.
The neck of the CRT is covered with graphite (unless you got some very very old one, for radiation reduction i think) and should remain where it is.

>>2237349
A CRT TV should overscan a little bit.
Did you wrote it down before changing it?

>>2236792
Probably not. You don't need a lot of quality to get a good 240p signal. Now, if you go up above 480 it gets a little different.

>>2236819
Not always. CRT HDTVs can have lag.

>>2237169
SoG is not YPbPr. Y is luminance, and same as in S-Video it's brightness only, no colour information. The plug is usually coloured green, i'll acknowledge.

>>2237301
Didn't we start one, a while back? Whoever fucked up the OP last probably forgot it :) And while i agree with >>2237352 that doesn't mean we can't recommend monitors to look out for.

>>2237319
I don't think he meant safe as in damaged? wtf? The power supply caps will probably discharge in a few days, the tube could hold charge for years. If you're worried, look up how to discharge it.

>>2237339
Nah, he's right. LCD still doesn't look right. CRT's make for an interesting comparison, but even better is to change LCD's more often when you're gaming and you'll get a sense of what you're missing with each one. None of them are anywhere near perfect, that fact becomes glaringly obvious.

>>2238602
And if you're not upscaling to an ED/HD CRT how much lag would that be?

>>2238670
>Nah, he's right. LCD still doesn't look right. CRT's make for an interesting comparison, but even better is to change LCD's more often when you're gaming and you'll get a sense of what you're missing with each one. None of them are anywhere near perfect, that fact becomes glaringly obvious.
I disagree completely but anyone is welcome to keep their CRT.

>>2238674
>I disagree completely but anyone is welcome to keep their CRT.
Can I have yours?

>>2238704
Got rid of my crts awhile ago. All micomsoft scalers now.

Dear friends, I can get Loewe calida 5772 ZP in good conditions (with remote control .. etc) for about 40-50€, what do you think ? German mate told me in another thread they are good quality. I own SNES/NES/SMS

Loewe calida 5772 ZP tech specs:

Type: CRT flat-screen TV;
Diagonal: 29" (74 cm);
Display format: 4:3;
Stereo sound: yes;
Refresh rate: 100 Hz;
Signal reception

Support TV standards: PAL, SECAM, NTSC;
Number of channels: 220;
Teletext: with the memory on page 390;
Sound

Sound power: 50 W (2 × 25 W);
Acoustic system: two speakers;
Surround sound: yes;
Interfaces

Inputs: SCART x2, RGB;
Headphone Jack: yes;
Functions

Picture in picture: yes;
Sleep timer: yes;
Additionally

Color: light silver, blue diamond, graphite;
Dimensions (WxHxD): 680x620x505 mm;
Additional information: Fully digital signal processing, digital comb filter, programming record on the VCR.;

Now..

a) xd
b) no free Trinitons (or anything) in my area, no that lucky
c) I can try find Samsungs or other, if better than Loewe, suggest a model but can't pay more than 50€.

PS; I had very old 14" CRT with no other inputs than RF.. but is dead now. Need to replace it.

>>2239105
anything with RGB scart is usually good, freunde.
i actually got a trinitron for free so maybe search for sony tv's around your area, most if not all will have SCART [at least in ireland anyways]

>>2239286
whoops, should have read all of your post

>>2238704
Really post deleted? None of the CRTs in this thread are pr 99 in the first place.
How is a scaler that was designed for arcade boards in the first place not retro? Oh but that GBA thread is still up. This place really is going to hell.

>>2238670
>no colour information.
I know that, I'm saying in terms of the physical color of the cable, what is sent over that line when in RGB mode, and that it's the only place to pull sync from when the DAC is in that mode. That's also why I threw it up in quotes in the second post.

>>2239105
>Refresh rate: 100 Hz
>Additional information: Fully digital signal processing
I don't have any first hand experience with the former, not being from Europe, but I would be weary about how it'll handle signals on the input lag front.
Displaying in 100hz mode(for PAL at least) would involve some sort of interpolation and while digital processing could be nice for picture quality of video playback, it could very well introduce a delay as well.

>>2239342
They really have been rather biased and off recently. What are you going to do though.

>None of the CRTs in this thread are pr 99 in the first place
My PVM and Megaview are; '95 and '98 respectively.

>>2239364
Well you're in the monitor here since most of the Trinitrons and PVM are mid 2000s. XRGBs are older than that...

Not trying to start anything either more. Was for the guy wanting a PVM.

>>2239376
minority*

>>2239364
I've read that most 100hz crts don't do anything on 60hz sources and simply do 60hz refresh

>>2239376

No, according to the survey there are slightly more pre-00s monitor/TV owners than 00s ones.

>>2239605
Except everyone just about takes pictures of and talks about flat panels so no.

Where do you guys find good monitors?

Craigslist has not been kind to me, especially watching PVMs shoot from $30-40 to $100-150 in the past couple of years

>>2239376
>monitor
kek

>>2239649
I got my Ikegami on ebay and my NEC on cl. Outside of cl, I don't really know an easy way to find them. Right now on ebay an XM29 is already over $500, so that certainly says something about prices on there these days.

About all I can suggest is to be diligent. You might be able to find something from production studios depending on where you live, and maybe you could have some luck with government surplus auctions. I don't know much about those options, but I seem to recall that they would at least be options to consider.

As more and more new retrogamers catch on to old RGB CRT monitors, things will only get worse and worse. I wouldn't be surprised if that NEC on ebay goes for $800, which unless it is brand new or something is crazy.

>>2239682
I doubt it. There's too many hours on the monitors out there.

>>2239286
>>2239364

Thank you for your replies mates.

>>2239690
This whole thing about "too many hours" that is being posted in this thread needs to stop.

CRTs can last for decades. The relationship between the quality of image and the service hours a weak one at best. I've seen monitors that probably had 100,000 service hours on them and they still look amazing.

>>2239897
You're talking about monitors that have basically been on 8+ hours day almost everyday for years. They are going to have a loss on quality and that's fact. You can only adjust the settings so much before they finally output a image that isn't acceptable.

>>2239649

Auctions. Universities, police departments, courts, and hospitals auction off their surplus equipment from time to time. You may have to go several times and not be picky about what you find.

Once I bought four pallets of 37" CRTs with two units on each pallet. Of the eight units six had their front control panels ripped off, one simply did not power on, and the remaining unit was a much older model than what I wanted.

Turned out that old one was the AM3501R, and now it is my favorite CRT ever.

Different times I got older PVMs with the CMPTR input, an NEC XM29 with severe burn-in, and could have bought an HP 36" media TV.

>>2239908
I have seen, owned, and used them many times both personally and professionally. They can still look good after many thousands of hours of use, up into the six digits. They were designed to do this.

>>2239910
100,000 hours mean 24 hours a day for over 12 years. Not saying a monitor can't last that long and still look pretty good, but it's going to have a weak focus at the least.

However, the claims that a monitor with around 20,000 hours on it are to avoided are pretty foolish. That's still going to look 99% as good as it did the first day it was turned on in most cases, especially if it hasn't been moved around too much.

>>2239105
It all depends on the price and what you want to do with it. It is a very good tv, but it is not the best for the retro gaming you typically find on /vr/.

>>2239364
Did you ever get the PS2 to display correct colors in RGB on your Mitsu? I know it can be done.

>>2239910
6 digits is really pushing it.
>>2239915
With the age of these monitors I'd say 20k hours is around the minimum you can reliably find.

Personally I think it's not worth it. Cons do not outweigh the pros of the alternatives.

>tfw SF anniversary collection on ps2 doesn't do 240p

here's the ps1 version again

>>2239934
What are the cons to a 20k hours monitor? As I said, they still look extremely good. Most of the pretty pictures people post on threads like this are from CRTs of that age.

>>2240170
It has 20k hours on it. That's a lot of use for those capacitors and the tube. You're going to need to adjust settings. When someone says "PVMs last 100k hours" they don't mean they last 100k hours and still look 100%. All CRTs gradually lose brightness and have other image defects.

panzer bandit is fun
anyone got any tricks for getting the scanlines to show in photos using a phone ?
what modes work best ?

>>2239897
Most CRTs are not going to have an hour count on them regardless. To my knowledge, only sony BVM models have this, not PVMs (L5 might be an exception since it's basically a BVM).

But condition of the set is still paramount. Hours does not necessarily mean wear and vice versa.

>>2239924
Just component seen as RGsB. My component cable is just the three video lines and audio; No composite or otherwise.

Working on a way around that right now though.

>>2240183
That game looks great, is there any need to read moon runes to play?

In a lot of cases, setting your white balance to florescent helps a lot. Obviously no flash. Removing all other light sources is a good idea.

>>2240224
>is there any need to read moon runes to play?
Nevermind. I'm trying it out now and I don't know what they're saying to me, but it's really good.

>>2240207
L5s have no hour count that I'm aware of.

>>2240248
you can throw hadoukens with the character in that pic
i done a shoryu a few times but i need to figure out the combo system

>>2240271
Shoryu is down down square.

Did anyone watch this?

tl;dr e-celeb makes it his personal mission to beat Tyson, fails for years until someone suggests he use a CRT, after which he beats it in under 30 minutes.

>>2240304

Forgot pic.

>>2240304
>>2240307
Not big surprise.

Too bad they were using composite.

>>2240304
It really is incredible how much of a difference using the real console on a CRT makes. Soda fucking Popinski was the bane of my existence for years when the only way I had to play the game was through emulation. Then I finally got a hold of a real copy, played it on my Sony CRT, and he went down like a bitch on the first try.

It was like training with weights on against a sparring partner you could never beat, then taking them off and screwing him sideways.

>>2240317
>>2240304
Posts like this make me realize why people prefer CRTs. People too cheap or ignorant to buy a good lcd monitor or tv.
There's nothing magical about CRTs. They're just low lag.

>>2240321

>There's nothing magical about CRTs. They're just low lag.

...that's the magic.

>>2240324
Not when you got LCD TVs and Monitors with sub 1 frame of lag. It's not humanly possible to tell a difference from the average 8ms of a crt.

>>2240321
>implying you can notice a delay on a 2ms response time LCD monitor

Cool super human time perception, bro

>>2240350
>mistaking response time for display latency

>>2240339
>>2240350

>silly CRTfags, why pick a CRT off the curb when you could just spend hundreds on a nice LCD and suffer with lower image quality?

>>2240350
I think you're confusing pixel response time. No monitor is that fast not even CRTs.
>>2240357
Calm down the greentext. This isn't your containment board.
If you want the look of a trinitron then nothing on a LCD is going to get it. But if you want the look of a PVM or BVM then there are options. If you think LCDs have inferior picture quality (the lower quality ones sure do) you're lagging 5 years behind.

>>2240359
>move mouse
>it instantly moves on my monitor

Yep, slow as hell, amirite?

>>2240360
I'm not sure what you're trying to make a point about?

>>2240359

LCDs will never have scanlines and therefore can never surpass CRTs in picture quality.

>>2236376
>will never have scanlines
see
>>2240367
>>2234773

>>2240321
Well, this is one of the advantages. They aren't just low lag, they have virtually no lag. CRTs will always be faster than any LCD, OLED, any digital based technology will be at least slightly slower, usually much slower. Now, there are fast LCDs out there, LCDs fast enough that the human eye probably can't tell the difference between it and a CRT, but there is still a measurable difference.

And of course there is input response from whatever is driving it as mentioned by >>2240356
>>2240359

In this thread we discuss a lot of higher end CRTs, and these have color accuracy and contrast that beat out a majority of LCDs. I bought some Dell U2412Ms around the same time I got a PVM 20L2MD, and guess which one I'd rather watch videos on?

In fact I'm looking forward to doing a side by side comparison of some old TV shows and anime, both from 480p and downscaled 1080p (4:3) sources on the PVM and 1080p on the dell. I honestly don't know which I'd prefer, I imagine it'd be close.

>>2240369

>silly CRTfag, you just need to buy ANOTHER thing to replicate the visuals you can get for free out of a dumpster

>>2240373
You're not getting a picture like that with a CRT out of a dumpster.
>>2240370
CRTs still have lag with video games though. About 8ms.
Old movies may be fine since they're in 4:3 but good like with 16:9.

>>2240359
>This isn't your containment board.
>complains about containment boards
>shitposts exclusively

>>2240375

>You're not getting a picture like that with a CRT out of a dumpster.

You're right. I'd get a picture like that with an emulator and a scanline filter. If I want something better, I'd grab the CRT out of the dumpster.

>>2240380
>I'd get a picture like that with an emulator and a scanline filter
I only use real hardware.

I haven't seen an emulator do good scanlines that didn't get misplaced.
>>2240376
What is you're problem? I'm trying to have a discussion about CRTs and you just want to greentext and shout shitposting?

>>2240384
hahahaha

>>2240375
But the lag isn't due to the CRT, it's lag going from button press to video output. Input lag yes, display lag no.

>>2240392
Not quite.

>>2240386
Still going?
>>2240389
Well there is the hardware lag of the button press. A CRT can only display images as fast as the refresh rate. Most games are at 60hz so it's displaying an image every 16ms averaged. You half that since to display the image the CRT must scan from the top to the bottom. Takes a full 16ms. So 8ms is the average.
8ms is the input input lag. You can not get faster than that because it can't display a image faster with that refresh rate. You would need to up the refresh rate. I think the fastest refresh rate available to a CRT monitor was like 155 or something. You would need a signal with that refresh rate also.

>>2240392
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vW4iViWrkWA
Immediately what I heard play in my head.

>>2240392
Link to shader?

>>2240392
I think there's too much curvature. A screen with that much curvature also probably wouldn't look that sharp.

>>2240392
I want to see a CRT shader on a VR headset where the curvature is in full 3D

>>2240403

>I think the fastest refresh rate available to a CRT monitor was like 155

My fastest monitor can go up to 180Hz, and I'm sure these Diamondtron that can go up to 1920*1440@75Hz can be faster.

>>2240698
You still need a signal with that kind of refresh rate. Very neat though. I've never seen a CRT with that high of a refresh rate.

>>2240710
>You still need a signal with that kind of refresh rate.

A PC can feed this kind of signal. There's nothing smoother than playing Quake 3 at 180FPS w/ Vsync@180Hz on this monitor. The best part is that I got it for 10 bucks.

Anyway, the 8ms Input lag you claim CRT have is less than a frame, making it unnoticeable, while most LCDs still have at least multiple frames of lag, and thanks to flickers, it's still smoother than LCDs at the same refresh rate.

>>2240731
I wasn't trying to say it was noticeable. It's not. But there is some lag. I'm not claiming either. That's how a CRT works.
If you like flicker there's the strobeing back light LCDs.

There are sub 1 frame LCDs.

>>2240739
>If you like flicker there's the strobeing back light LCDs

Not that I enjoy flicker, it's because it's the only way to have smooth motion. Also, strobe LCD alone wont do smooth motion either, you need to insert black frames between each useful frames too, diminishing the brightness of the set at the same time.

All of this is over complicating yourself while you can get a free set out of some Hospital or studio, or at thrift-stores and such for like 10 bucks, and have the best retro gaming experience.

>>2240384
>I haven't seen an emulator do good scanlines that didn't get misplaced.
The NTSC filters going around recently do a good job, sometimes I think it's even doing a better job than the almost universally-appraised Framemeister. Plus you can simulate composhit with it too, if that's your fetish (I usually set it to RGB-like quality).

Still doesn't match up to an actual CRT ,but it does at least get the scanline positioning correct.

>>2240745
That's why you turn the back light brightness all the way up. At least with Sony you get that option. I turn it on sometimes but I really don't see much difference. The amount of blurr really depends on the set.
>>2240752
I haven't seen anything that comes close to a XRGB with a SLG or a Framemeister. Those get you a picture just like a PVM/BVM.

>>2240756
>That's why you turn the back light brightness all the way up

Wrong move, you recalibrate it so you have the right amount of brightness. But even with the right recalibration, your monitor's back-light will be worn out way faster.

>Those get you a picture just like a PVM/BVM.

Nope, they don't. The shit you posted earlier was obvious, that's why I didn't reply, the colors are meh.

>>2240183
Looks awesome, thx for sharing.

>>2239364
>the physical color of the cable
Shouldn't slip into using inaccurate terms ;)

Done a bit of reading, and I think I see what you want to do. I did the same thing, kinda, with a Wii cable. The external slider toggles RGB/YPbPr.

I have no idea about the sync levels, and you might want to combine them properly for RGBS if you need it.

With the Wii i have to turn the system off to change the mode, and the game regions tend to force video modes.

>>2240208
You should be able to get correct colors using your component as RGsB setup by setting the PS2 Bios setting to RGB. Did you try that?

>>2240392

These look nice in photos, but in practice I always find them lacking in luminosity.

How would one of those fancy shaders work on a high res PC CRT?

>>2240828
>recalibrate
Why?
Also the janitor keeps deleting my posts and I don;t know why.
>>2241118
Like they do a normal LCD. Badly.

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/hsh/4891904645.html

besides the chipped corner, Is this any good?

>>2240828
>Nope, they don't. The shit you posted earlier was obvious, that's why I didn't reply, the colors are meh.
They look better if you ask me. I know I'm not the only one to give up on CRTs after using an xrgb. You don't have to worry about setting up the CRT correctly. Though now it's a lot easier with the community based tools and info. It gives you the exact look of a highend CRT monitor but on a much larger screen and much higher resolution.

I'm not saying CRTs are bad they're just on life support. I didn't spend all that money to have something look like a CRT because I hate them. If they still made new CRTs (of the quality of a PVM or BVM) I'd just buy one.

>>2241246
>exact look
exact, no
good enough, yeah

come back when the upscalers start getting 4K support and CRT emulation

>>2241301
They aren't emulating anything and never will. The whole point is to upscale the image as correctly as possible which is why they look just like a PVM or BVM.

You're basically a troll or hilariously ignorant if you think a xrgb doesn't look a PVM.

4k or UHD anything is pointless and will be pointless for another 5 years.

>>2241308
>>2241308
Depends on the PVM.
It looks similar to some of the high-res tube PVM, but it doesn't look or feel exactly like it. I own both, and there is a big difference in luminosity. A backlit display and a display generating light will never be quite the same. Also the flickering. Also LCDs tend to motionblur (alright my LCD is crap).
Also the entire turning on a CRT and being lit up by the glow is just more satisfying somehow.

Also with PVMs actually I kind of prefer the low-res tube PVM I have for most games (the scanlines are softer).

I'm not saying upscalers are bad. I'm saying they're a perfectly viable alternative, but they're not the same thing.
They also don't do lightguns.

4K, preferably an OLED, would be useful with a CRT shader to further emulate the look of CRTs.
Todays upscalers only really add scanlines, that's it. Adding scanlines does a lot, but there's more to a CRT than scanlines.

Even playing on my 100Hz I-don't-know-what-the-fuck-processing-it-does CRT is a whole-'nother feeling than playing on my Framemeister, it just feels snappier overall.

I'm probably going to upgrade to a HD Plasma though so I'll get to compare my PVM with Framemeister on a panel that doesn't suck, but I still think the PVM will have the edge in everything but size (teeny 14" is all I have)

>>2241324
(cont.)
I'm just thinking you, >>2241308, bought a very expensive XRGB and want to justify the purchase...

You can have a perfectly good PVM for like 50 bucks if you just look around.

Also: Colors, colors, colors, colors, colors. CRTs still have the edge here over LCDs.
Broadcast monitors basically went directly from CRT to OLED, and for good reason.

>>2241308
I mean, I'm perfectly OK with you preferring the scaler+LCD/whatever over CRTs, there's tons of reasons to.

Just don't go around proclaiming "it's exactly like a high-end CRT" when it clearly isn't.

>>2241328
>>2241324
>They also don't do lightguns.
This is very true and I've given up hope for that for a long time now.

It's not so much the image that is different it's the display technology. A CRT has a specific look. Like the glow and flicker. Personally it's not something I care much about. As I said earlier my set has less than a frame of lag total with the 240p source upscaled to 1080p on a 50". I think depending on the settings used in "game setting" it could be slightly over 1 frame. Regardless it's indistinguishable from a CRT as far as lag goes.
The motion blur as with most Sony TVs is very good. It hasn't bothered me and if it does I can enable strobeing back light.

The colors if you ask me are too close to really matter. Especially when you consider the real viewing distance. Like you said you would need to compare an OLED.


I like my purchase I'm just tired of the LCD hate for no damn reason. Especially the people that say CRTs have zero lag when they certainty do. Far as a gaming application is concerned anyway.

That and it's fun to post images from real hardware and have people assume you're emulating.

>>2241342
>Just don't go around proclaiming "it's exactly like a high-end CRT" when it clearly isn't.
It basically is unless you want the specific characteristics of a CRT. ie. glow and flicker.

>>2241346
Nothing has zero lag, zero lag is just shorthand for less-than-a-frame-lag these days anyway. (Which means that all CRTs have "zero lag")
CRTs will still always be technically better here. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find a CRT that has even 1 frame of lag (excluding ones that do digital processing).

Personally, however, it doesn't really matter to me if it's only around 1~2 frames of lag or so. I bet my crap LCD is pouring on several though. Also it motion blurs.

>>2241351
>It's exactly like a CRT except it isn't
All my wat.

I don't know what exactly like means in your world, but in mine it must have these characteristics to be "exactly like a CRT".

Also if you're tired of the LCD hate, you've definitely come to the wrong thread.

>>2241363
Well the only other threads close are the emulation threads and I sure as shit am not posting in them.

I'm talking about the picture not the effect of sitting in front of a CRT.
>>2241354
The SD CRTs will always have better lag. But when the difference is less than 10ms that really isn't saying much.

Ya most LCD TVs I think have around 3-4 or a lot more.

>>2241236
>Why?

So you can have the right white level m8, so the monitor render the colors the best it can.

>They look better if you ask me
>You don't have to worry about setting up the CRT correctly.

Opinion m8, and CRT color calibration only takes a few minutes ONCE, it's not the huge waste of time you make it look like. Yes, your LCD can look pretty close to a non-calibrated CRT, but it's till pale in comparison to the life-like picture of a nicely calibrated and rejuvenated Professional monitor. There's a reason why some printing houses still use old Diamontrons, it because what is displayed on these monitors is just like what come out of the printer, the exact same.
But anyway, that's your opinion, I ain't going to change it.

>If they still made new CRTs (of the quality of a PVM or BVM) I'd just buy one.

Well guess what, Ikegami still makes broadcast CRTs and they're quite expensive.

>>2241346
>LCD hate

dood, it's not. For regular modern stuff, no way I can't go back to crt.

but for 240p stuff, upscalers are just $300 kludges for a $5 problem

>>2241378
Where can I get a 20" PVM or BVM for $5?
>>2241376
>pale in comparison
This is like a buzz word for you fanboys I swear.

>>2241386
>crt must be a pvm/bvm