/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2182871
I liked DS for the most part. There was a lot that it could've done better. It probably should've stuck to the same formula as the first two, instead of trying to cram in the open city areas, especially considering the console limitations at the time.

Oh. And they probably shouldn't have bothered releasing it on xbox at all.

But I liked a few of the missions and all... Has anyone made a direct sequel FM for thief? One that ignores the third game altogether, or retells it? What's a good mega-FM in general while I'm at it. Preferably one with a new plot involving Garrett, but really anything is fine.

>>2183525
Apparnetly there's a Thief 2X. A fan sequel to Thief 2, in which you play as a the young girl Garrett hires at the end of DS.
Can't say more, still trying to find out how to use fan maps however.

>>2183671
No, T2X protagonist, Zaya, is an entirely different person and her storyline happens before and during Thief 2.
T2X is highly recommended though, it has some missions that are real masterpieces (Down Among Dead Men, The Grand Hotel and The Cure in particular).

Is there a good game like Thief except set in reality? I'd really like a game where you break into houses and hide from the cops and shit. Something like that with Thief's gameplay would be awesome.

Many years ago, I remember seeing a magazine preview for a heist stealth game that was about stealing art from galleries, and I think it said you would get gadgets to watch guards, avoid cameras and lasers, etc. I remember the working title being something artsy sounding like Masquette or Picasso or Facade.

Does anyone remember this? I've tried searching with a bunch of different terms and never been able to find anything.

>>2184168
Can you remember what magazine/year?

>>2184168

Th3 Plan, isn't it?

monitoring thread

>>2183671
Yeah. I've played that one. Really I just want to adventure as Garrett again, or a silent protag I can pretend is Garrett.

Bonus points if the voice actor actually sounds like Garrett.

>>2184512
No, that's not it, although I haven't heard of this one. Looks cheap but kind of cool.

>>2184480
No, I can't, could have been any of a half dozen different magazines (I didn't subscribe to any one magazine and picked up random issues occasionally). I have a feeling it was early-mid 2000s, so it's probably not /vr/ anyway.

>>2183823
Except devs can't into >Thief's gameplay anymore

All I want is a game where I have a light gem.
No colour-based suit bullshit, no bar, just that fucking gem.

Dishonored was kinda good on the stealth/freerunning part, but there was no gem.
THIEF has some freerunning too, but it feels limited compared to Dishonored's "hey I'm walking under/above your head you taffer".

>>2185473
The Dark Mod is what you're looking for. The Light Gem is 2 times more sensitive than Thief 1/2/3's (32 shades instead of 16).

>>2185480
16 shades?
What the fuck?

>>2185482
Yes, that's quite impressive compared to Thi4f's 3 pathetic shades, heh? And that was in 1998.

>>2185480
Tried the Dark Mod. It has a choppy framerate and using quick saves too many times will crash it.

What is it with both Thief 3 and TDM lacking modifier keys? In fact I have never seen them outside of LGS' games. It seems like nobody else in the game industry knows how to program them.

>>2185483
I never had the idea it's so many
come to think of it, thiaf's pretty much binary about it
Any source on this 16 shades thing?

I miss listening on enemy banter and putting them in display at some embarassing location.
>knocks several guards
>put them all in the lord's bed
>chuckle stupidly as I imagine Bafford's face when he comes home and find all his guards sleeping on his bed

>>2185836
it'd probably look like an drunk orgy where everyone passed out before getting naked

>>2185868
>trickster can send a whole civilization underground but can't recover a crown from a bunch of bipedal fishies
What an unbelieably pathetic god.

>>2185885
>implying he didn't just take credit for seismic activity
He's been a dying god for a long time.

>>2185953
>mfw I always played Thief games vanilla without any mods and still enjoyed the fuck out of them
Constantine's mansion is what kind of mission? In order to look for a similar "mansion of illusions" thingy, I mean.

>>2186045
Not sure any fms have successfully recreated that atmosphere. there are plenty of good mansion fms though.

speaking of fms, what happened to that anon with the impressive looking city?

Playing through Thief 2 for the first time...

It makes me sad that Thief 2 Gold never happened

>>2186597
Except for the madhouse part of it, I don't remember Constantine's Mansion having an atmosphere.

The Boneyard, however, yeah. The Haunted Cathedral too.

>>2187174
The madhouse was the atmosphere. The entire mansion was a carnival fun house only with lethal traps and killer guards.

And then you got to the basement...

>>2187183
COMPENSATION

I keep thinking the French version is better than the English version.

>>2184168
It was a game/demo for the GC.
Picasso.

http://gcgalaxy.tripod.com/GameCube/picasso.htm

>>2186597
I'm still here. I have a big project in the backburner but it's still in pre-production right now.

>>2187024
But the Gold levels were dog shit.

>>2187360
Taffer you just went full retard.

I really tried to like the first Thief, played Gold with TFix until the latter part of Cragsleft Prison.
It just felt too outdated, the AI and detection was really weird at times.

>>2187360
song of the caverns

>>2187443
Outdated compared to what? The AI and detection are the most consistent I've seen in any game. The game does a very good job of playing by its own rules.

>>2187501
Actually, I felt some of the lights in cragscleft were a bit wonky, otherwise the level wasn't so bad
also it had the first plot twist, so there's that

>>2187501
I don't know, compared to some games from it's time.

Sometimes the AI's antics didn't make sense to me too much, but they we're pet peeves I quess.

Maybe I just wen't into a full plebmode or something, I'll have to give Thief a second chance later.

>>2187501

>>2187531 update, just remembered that the two biggest problems we're that knocking guards out from the side / anywhere but directly from behind was very inconsistent,
and that in Cragsleft the cell block guards would come out of their guard post rooms if you hit the guard room's door but would ring the alarm if you hit a cell door next to the guard room.

>>2185486

Sounds like that's more of an issue with your computer. I have no framerate issues with a GTX 460, assuming I don't max out AA and AF.

>>2186045

You'll want to play Ominous Bequest.

>>2187501

It's really good in general but when AI are searching for you in the shadows, they're programmed to home in on you. And in TG (and sometimes T2) I've had issues with knocking people out, only to have their unconscious bodies call for guards.

>>2187650
>I've had issues with knocking people out, only to have their unconscious bodies call for guards.

That happens when you KO two people in a row who are super close to eachother and in the light. The alert from their unconscious bodies doesn't really "exist" afaik and shouldn't alert nearby AIs unless you got spotted in the act.

>>2187443
Try Thief 2 the, you might like it more (even though I think Thief Gold is the definitive Thief experience).

>>2186045
>>2187650
Go for the Broken Triad after that, it's a sequel

>>2187470
Best level in Thief Gold imo.

>>2185953
What does Tafferpatcher actually do anyway?

>>2187895
It's the best level in the series imo.

>>2187897
Makes everything compatible with modern systems, enables widescreen, removes most hard limits (polygons in view, etc) and adds optional eye candy.

>>2187912
I dunno about that, I haven't played Deadly Shadows but the Bank Heist level from Thief 2 was pretty good.

Thief is at its best when the level is just "here's a huge building, find the one or two items you came for that are locked up in it along with everything else that isn't nailed down. Also killing is for amateurs, not a pro like you"

>>2187928
The museum mission in Deadly Shadows is probably the best pure thieving experience. The Cradle is the best in the game overall though.

I actually prefer huge, non-linear city missions than regular manor heists. But I do like these huge building missions when they're done well.

>>2187650
>when AI are searching for you in the shadows, they're programmed to home in on you

I've seen this stated before, but I have not noticed it in my many hours of playing, nor have I seen any evidence of it.

It seems to me that they become VERY sensitive to sound and will home in on, for example, walking-speed footsteps on stone or wood which usually would never alert anyone.

Why isn't the Thief AI better documented? I've seen some explanation of their vision cones but why isn't there a full breakdown of the AI code and various states? The community is so dedicated, you'd think this would be readily available on a wiki somewhere.

Are the fanpatches included in Steam's releases?

>>2187957
I mean I've definitely sat still in a dark corner and have them circle around near me, but pass me by, many times.

>>2187958
No, I'm pretty sure the Steam version is the last official retail version and does not include the "NewDark" engine improvements (which were done after the source code was discovered, so there is some questionable legality there). You want to use TFix and Tafferpatcher. It's really simple if you're worried about that.

>>2187928
Which is why Thief 2 stopped featuring so many undead and burricks. People went and complained about exploration and puzzles, and the game became boring and repetitive.

I liked the Lost City, the Boneyard and the Haunted Cathedral.

>>2187967
>complaining about zombies is the same as complaining about "exploration and puzzles"

I don't know why this pissing match still continues. Both games are good, it's easy to skip levels you don't like, and fan missions have done T1 Indiana Jones-style missions even better anyway if you want more of them.

>>2187982
Who are you quoting? I never complained about them.

In fact, I loved these. It added some very nice variety, in the enemies, the environnements, the atmosphere, but sadly with a similar gameplay.
Adding blind animals that can hear you but can't see you would've been a nice addition. Smell woulda been too hard to code, however. Too bad, that woulda been cool, an enemy that can see you, hear you, and follow your trails.

>>2183809
>T2X
Is it worth it?

>>2187992
You responded to a guy that said "I like huge buildings with lots to steal best" and started talking about people not liking undead burricks (which is true, people did complain, but is not what he said) and complaining about exploration and puzzles (which is not true period). I've never heard anyone say "T1 is worse because it has too much exploration." Even if you think large mansions are boring and repetitive you can have puzzles and exploration in them just fine.

>>2188182
I never complained about exploration and puzzles. I just said that I heard that people complained about the Indiana Jones-like map of Thief, and that it was why the second game was more classical with its bestiary. Gone the undead, now you have cameras and unblackjackable people.

I myself finished Thief in every possible difficulty, but I don't think I ever finished Thief 2.
Dunno, going from a pagan chaotic God to a deluded midget with delusions of grandeur didn't pleased me.

>>2188173
It's worth it if you want something that feels like an expansion pack, with cutscenes and briefings and everything. An expansion pack with some iffy voice acting and writing, yeah, but it's all tied together enough to feel like you're playing a real game with a good sense of progression. Also, some cool scripted stuff and new effects and items in the engine.

If you only want to play a few fan missions, and nothing but the absolute best quality, you could probably spend your time better on some single-mission ones. But T2X is absolutely worth playing despite some rough edges.

>>2188186
A deluded midget with an army of robots, don't forget that part

Anyway what I never got is why Garret didn't keep Constantine's Sword in between T1 and T2. That thing was sweet.

>>2188192
He was probably afraid it was cursed or that it would attract attention.

Or he sold it for money.


And I dunno, I can't get into Thief 2 at all. The fact that I never even see Karras directly really bothers me.

>>2188192
isn't it above his mantle in the level where you tail what's-her-tits? I gotta replay T2...

>>2188198
I think Karras appearing directly would have ruined his character. He's this kind of overbearing presence that's just looming over every aspect of The City. All of his followers speak about him like he's a God, all of his robots have his face and speak with his voice, the rest of the citizens are either trying to get on his good side or at least hide from his wrath, he's everywhere.

And for most of the game it's like he's fully aware of what you're doing. Start messing with his control of the City Guard? They show up at your house and try to kill you. Sneak into his fortress? He's got a recorded message specifically for you and guards lining every inch of the path back to safety.

Suddenly running into the tiny midget guy that he actually is would have made it impossible to take him seriously as a villain.

>>2188231
I see your point. He's a different villlain than the Woodsie Lord. But I'm a sucker for fighting things directly, so I don't like bad guys constantly being one step ahead of me.

>>2183823
Let me introduce you to the world of break and enter anon. It's tonnes of fun and 5x as good as VR in terms of immersion! It'll have your heart racing. Remember to make your witty quips under your breath when everything is safe.

AI is light years ahead of anything that could be replicated on a computer, as well as funkadelic lighting and atmosphere. You need to buy DLC if you wanna play a soundtrack though, it's worth it though cause you can add whatever music that you'd like.

>>2188198
>>2188231
Why do you guys keep saying he's a midget? You can see him in Soulforge behind a window if you go to his office. He's regular height. Are you all imagining Droopy Dog because of his voice?

>>2188261
Because it fits the stereotype about evil mastermind being small.

>>2188261
True, he's not actually a midget. But some of his quotes and writings make it clear he has a huge chip on his shoulders regarding people who "spurned him" in the past. Combined with his weird ass voice and stuff it seems clear to me that he's basically a nerd taking revenge against the world for making fun of him.

Karras is basically what you get when you give some neckbeard with assburgers a robot army.

>>2188378
Please don't insulting Karras by insinuating he has Asperger. He has enough charisma to lead a whole fucking church, he isn't some loser writing furry fanfictions.

I've heard SS2 has some of the stealth code from Thief in it. Does it actually work? I've never tried.

>>2187957

I know that LGS would sometimes spawn invisible crates that break when you load the level, so that some guards would be more alert than others.

>>2189482
You can't hide in darkness, but they can hear you.

>>2188549
>please don't insult my genocidal mass murdering cult idol

>>2190734
He doesn't even have a moustache.

>>2190786
Most people don't.

>>2190789
All genocidal mass murdering idols must have a moustache.
Look at Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Oda Nobunaga, Mother Teresa, Leopold II, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Un, moot...

>>2190842

Now, i perfectly understand mother teresa, but why lenin ?

>>2190849
He didn't murder political opponents like Stalin did, but he still caused much deaths and emigration.
One does not simply bring communism without slaughtering priests and richfags.

I know, being a fedora tipping atheist, you don't care about priests.

>>2190851
>I know, being a fedora tipping atheist, you don't care about priests.

I'm not an atheist nor a religious person, i have a shitheaded cousin which is a catholic priest, but i still respect some of them since i encountered an insane amount of priests during my life, and i know that some of them are more than decent human being.

>>2189482
>>2190669
Actually, there is a stealth system in it. It works identical to Thief's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0CP8AgKGaM

>>2190993
Cool. Shame there weren't really any areas in the game designed with it in mind.

>>2190993
That's pretty good.

>>2190993
I smiled at the reuse of the searching animations

In regards to Thief. "Taff" is probably one of the best fictional swear words ever made.

>>2193765
it's right up there with "whomps"

>>2193765
>taff
>not faggot

I wish Splinter Cell hasn't gone to shit after Chaos Theory.

>>2193765
I think my favorite bit is it's as versatile as "fuck" but with a less vulgar connotation.
>>2197054
hated the first splinter cell. Haven't really tried one since then. I probably should give pandora/chaos theory a go though...

>>2197591
It's much more linear than the average stealth game.

>>2187354
Tell us !

>>2182871
>the new game has been a disappointment

What else is new.

Is Metal Gear a stealth game? I'm getting bored of the olde "wait in a small dark corner that the guard has passed".

Before it's off to suicide, I'll ask here:
For a strange reason I cannot install Thief 2.
It was actually installed, but I uninstalled it, and now (after a few months) I want to play it again.
If I try to start the setup.exe it loads for a few seconds and then just stops, not even the -lgntforce flag makes it work properly.
What should I do next? Anyone encountered the same issue?

>>2198684
get out

>>2198684
Metal Gear is a stealth game, but it only starts out that way really. By the end of it you can nikita missile/stinger/famas your way through anything and stealth quickly becomes more of a suggestion than anything. It's fun though. Different sort of stealth.

>>2199107
I'm talking about MGS in case it wasn't obvious. MG is a lot different. Still stealth, but a bit more cumbersome.

>>2198736
Just pirate the GOG version at this point, it should install with no issues. Don't forget to Tafferpatch it afterwards.

>>2199108
mgs unlocks shit if you play stealthly by avoiding being spotted or killing enemies
i think the ps3 version of mg2 does that too

>>2198736
Right-click & "run as administrator"?
Never got any problem with that, and yet I use Vista.

>>2199107
Yeah, but I like the idea of the cardboard box, it makes stealth less dependable from the map design, and it makes it more realist, compared to the "it always night everywhere and lamps are too expensive". Mark of the Ninja has a cardboard box, but it's a game where you murder guards instead of just sneaking past them.

>>2199108
I don't even know about MG. I was thinking of the game that came out on Playstation, where the soldiers could follow your footprints in the snow. It was neat back then.

WHY THE FUCK IS THE FINAL MISSION OF THIEF METAL AGE SO FUCKING HARD
FUCK
I MEAN I ENJOYED THE GAME (not as much as the first one) AND IT WAS PRETTY MUCH OK DIFFICULTY-WISE BUT THE FINAL MISSION
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

>>2200021
Welcome to the past, where beating a game was a fucking achievement that required an entire month of training.

I kinda miss that time. Losing almost all your lives on a boss was frustrating and could drive you to tears, but that feeling when you find the safe spot in a boss' pattern felt good, man.
It was like scratching a spot that has been itching for hours.

I can not say that I disagree. The final mission from The dark project was quite the opposite: rather easy and fast. But that whole mechanist factory? Fuck it. Robots and cameras fucking everywhere. Still have to get 3 antennas running and put the device at its proper place... it feels like a long way before I finish it.

>>2200102
Alright, I just finished it. I didn't explore all of the map (I guess there's 4-5 rooms that I just neglected) and I found none of the 4 secrets. Is it worth it to replay the last mission (or even the whole game) just to get all of them? Are the ones in the final mission stuff like, I don't know, documents or something?
All in all, I enjoyed the first game more. I liked the fact that I continued Garret's story, and some missions were fun (going back to Garret's home, the thieves' highway...) but the first game was much more memorable.
Time to get all the secrets. And finally start playing the fan missions. AND buy a new PC to play Deadly Shadows (yes, I know that it's not as good as TDP and Metal age)...

>>2200183
Deadly Shadows has only two reedeming features : it's more beautiful, and THE CRADLE.

Everything else is bad. The third person mechanism makes it difficult to move Garett accurately, the guards are goofy, and the blackjack mechanism is shit (basically, it's scripted so that the guard stops moving while you knock him out, which is unimmersive), and the maps are FUCKING SMALL as fuck.

THE CRADLE is good, and the magical guards are good too, with their monotone monologue "FIND AND FIND AND CRUSH AND CRUSH". The rest is bad. And I'm nice.

>>2200358
I know- everyone seems to agree that T3 is bad. But I really want to try it out anyway.
Any advice about which FM should I play first?

>>2200379
I honestly have no idea, I only played defaults campaigns and a bit of the Dark Mod.

I'd say start by finishing the game. As for FM, refer to >>2185953, it seems to give good advice.

Any good stealth games aside from Thief?

>>2200437
The Splinter Cell franchise (mostly Chaos Theory).
Dishonored (but a bit special, sine you're not forced to go sneaky and going in hard is a perfectly valid strategy).
Hitman (still stealth, but in a different way : you infiltrate the enemy fortress layer after layer rather than sneaking in, and only Blood Money is good).
Mark of the Ninja (a 2D game, mostly focused on assassination and gadgets rather than real stealth).

Otherwise, there are also Payday, Hotline Miami, and the Elder Scrolls games but it's not centered on stealth.
And in Skyrim's case, stealth is stupid and overpowered. I finished all the dungeons with a crossbow and a dagger. Didn't felt good.

>>2200091
>Still have to get 3 antennas running and put the device at its proper place..

Real Thief pros play on Expert, where you have to activate ALL the antennas Gah that mission took forever though.

Honestly Thief 2 loses its steam at the end, where you have to play the same map two times in a row and then muck around in that damn factory for ages. Luckily the levels in the middle are great.

>>2201091
Real pros play on custom-made Phantasm, where you IMMEDIATELY lose the second the guards grow suspicious. That means no blood, no open doors, not even a noise.

I'd really like a stealth game like Metal gear 3, focused on camouflage and using enemy weapons rather than buying shit before the mission and staying in the shadow

>>2201091
Pretty sure you can leave one untouched on Expert. I can be wrong though since I haven't played Soulforge in a while (and I'm among those who really love this mission despite finding Thief 2 less good than Thief 1 overall).

>>2200385
Yeah that list is pretty good. The author did forgot to say that Seven Shades of Mercury is brutal at the beginning, so be wary.

>>2184653

Yay someone postings my artsies

>>2185885
>>2185868

That timeline is bullshit by the way. The times between and during the games are wrong, and it wrongly attributes the Trickster to the Old Quarter cataclysm.

-The time between Thief 1 and 2 is "over a year" not two years, the time between Thief 2 and 3 is about two weeks, and the time during Thief 3 is 8 days. The rest of the times are made up but that doesn't matter.

-The Eye is sentient and doesn't take orders from anyone. Constantine might have known of its existence at the time of the cataclysm, but he hadn't come up with the alchemical substance that he could use to drug the artifact in order to exploit its power.

>>2202119

Is that like a mod that enforces supreme ghost conditions?

Where you have to use fire arrows to relight torches if you put them out, or that you can't even let guards go to a "first alert" phase, or you can't take any damage?

I've never really understood those, I'm all about being immersive in the role of Garrett, going beyond what the game asks of you in effort to play the role of the flawless thief.

But those challenges also entail stealing every bit of loot from the levels, and that kind of breaks the immersion to me because it's unrealistic already that guards don't notice things when they're missing, when their patrol routes take them right past where things used to be.

>>2202751
It's unrealistic to expect Garrett to know when he stole everything from the level. And that he would know what a level is.

>>2202119
That'd make the final level of T2 unwinnable, since you spawn in direct view of a security camera to trigger Karras' opening dialogue. I'd rather ghost as a self imposed challenge rather than have a mod force me to do it.

>>2202452
Yeah I forgot about that. You can ignore one of the towers even on Expert. There's eight total you can access but you only need to activate seven.

I have a really hard time getting into Thief 2

The animations and controls are just weird and janky as hell.

>>2203136

-The animations are motion-captured. What's wrong with those?
-The default controls are shit from an era when WASD wasn't the standard yet. The control interface itself is solid. The only problem you can run into is accidentally using an item when trying to manipulate objects in the level because those actions use the same key. Kinda like in modern console ports where every action uses the same key. "Press A for Awesome" -Bioware.

Why is Thief's setting so great?

>>2200379
I don't agree that T3 is bad. It has some shit cutscenes (in engine renders) and questionable design (jumping in water kills you) but it's a solid game. It just suffers from a sever case of consolitis... Splitting the levels in two so the xbox could handle them was a huge mistake.

However, I still had a ton of fun with it. I even enjoyed the story and open world bits. You can fix a lot of it's problems with mods, but to my knowledge nobody has completely fixed the 2 level split/waterdeath (seriously, just put up a fence or something, instakill is bullshit).

I considered doing some simple hand drawn animatics to replace the in-engine scenes, but never had the time...

>>2203537
>to my knowledge nobody has completely fixed the 2 level split/waterdeath
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/08/01/thief-3-mod-mid-level-loading-screens/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rockpapershotgun%2Fsteam+%28Rock%2C+Paper%2C+Shotgun%3A+Steam+RSS%29

Otherwise, the oil flask sounds great on paper, but it hard to use in game.
I think the thing that disappoint me most is that the manual (that I read a lot since I was only able to play on week-end when I got it) suggested a lot more side-missions, so I end up expected a GTA-like game where you're free to steal lotsa things.

>>2203525

Ken Levine and Terri Shodan Brosius. As much as people like to bash Bioshock Infinite for its mediocrity, Levine did gud with Thief and Shock. Also, Shodan is Shodan and everything she writes is awesome. Much of Dishonored's greatness is her doing.

>>2203537

I think the worst thing about Thief 3 is its clunky control caused by unnecessary prioritizing of 3rd person body awareness without the developer competence to achieve it to a sufficient extent. The game doesn't have a real 1st person mode. It's just a duplicate of the 3rd person mode with a camera in a different location. Thief 3 did wrong what F.E.A.R did right.

>>2203763
>I think the worst thing about Thief 3 is its clunky control caused by unnecessary prioritizing of 3rd person body awareness without the developer competence to achieve it to a sufficient extent. The game doesn't have a real 1st person mode. It's just a duplicate of the 3rd person mode with a camera in a different location. Thief 3 did wrong what F.E.A.R did right.
This. I noticed that extremely quickly and it was a pain in the ass but I wasn't sure how to describe it because I am a filthy foreigner who cannot speak English.

>>2203771

I'm a filthy foreign taffer too. Sometimes it feels like 1/3rd of Thief fans are from Germany, 1/3rd are from Finland and the rest are from somewhere else.

>>2203785
I'm French. Guess I'm part of the minority again.

>>2203594
>level split
Thanks m8

>Otherwise, the oil flask sounds great on paper, but it hard to use in game.
I liked the oil flask for making escapes and for killing treefolk... But I do think it was an unnecessary addition.

I actually had dreams about Thief 3 before it released where the world was a lot more open. Where you could pop along the thieves highway to break into a mansion just for shits between missions... The limited thing we got was a bit of a letdown, but it didn't irk me like it seemed to everyone else.

>>2203771
>I think the worst thing about Thief 3 is its clunky control caused by unnecessary prioritizing of 3rd person.
It certainly took some getting used to. I didn't get the feeling that the overly prioritized 3rd person, just that they spread themselves too thin trying to achieve both. Body awareness is a nice idea, just wasn't executed well enough. Once I got used to it though it wasn't an issue anymore...

Since there seem to be mods to fix everything, how about a widescreen hack that doesn't stretch the hud?

>>2204001
>Since there seem to be mods to fix everything, how about a widescreen hack that doesn't stretch the hud?

Nevermind. Sneaky Upgrade seems to do that... I haven't modded Thief 3 in a long time, been out of the loop.

Dunno if you guys really care about level design but I have taken to myself to remake and combine the two lost Hammerite Imperium maps, The Harbor of Excalibrius and The Grand Cathedral of Saintly Cardinal Illastrius. I am remaking them as closely as possible while adding more details. Here's what I made so far.

>>2204106
Here's a comparison shot of the old map.

>>2204106
We care. Looks good so far. How long do you generally take to finish a map?

>>2204106
>the two lost Hammerite Imperium maps, The Harbor of Excalibrius and The Grand Cathedral of Saintly Cardinal Illastrius
What are you talking about?
If anything, these buildings look Orthodox.

>>2204162
A long time, and there's tons of work to do.

>>2204186
I'm talking about this:
http://darkfate.org/view/details/files/fan-missions/thief2/hammerite_imperium/mission_2/screenshots
http://darkfate.org/view/details/files/fan-missions/thief2/hammerite_imperium/mission_5/screenshots

>>2184653
>>2202673
Apparently I also made this Hammerite version of the mechanist chick at some point. Don't recall when or why.

>>2204367
qt

>>2199107
Nah even if you have nikita missiles your ammunition is limited and there are unlimited amounts of guards comming at you

I think people need to step back and give more props to the true hero of the Thief series.

Benny the Guard. Without his short attention span, his easily knocked out head, and his need to announce his location through constant whistling or muttering Garret would have had a far rougher time.

And all he wanted in return? Tickets to the Bear Pits.

>>2204813
like it matters. you just need to kill enough guards to make it to an exit.

I love mgs, but there very few penalties for ignoring stealth late in the game.

>>2205073
I think he was just shitty at his job.

>>2205181
Benny wasn't the Guard Garret deserved, but he's the Guard he needed.

>>2205180

I also seem to recall several unavoidable boss fights with zero room for stealth, and a spiral staircase climb firefight with a hundred soldiers. MGS has stealth elements. It isn't a stealth game. It's a slightly advanced embarrassing weeaboo version of Pac-Man released 15 years late at a time when other stealth games were ahead of their time.

>>2205331
Go away DSP.

>>2205190
you're right, Garret really would prefer it if all the guards were shitfaced drunk

>>2205805

Metal Gear Solid isn't shit because of difficulty. It's shit because it's shit. Overrated simplistic arcade game that was a decade obsolete at its release, with animu bullshit, bad pseudo-philosophy, worse cheesy characters and unfunny 4th wall jokes. You play as a dot in a green maze in the corner and occasionally see some crazy shit in the rest of the screen made of too few polygons and written with too few braincells. It might be considered a success as a desperate attempt at an original anime movie in an oversaturated market of anime movies, but it fails as a videogame of its era. Mechanically shit by the standards of 1998, and thematically not relevant to my interests.

It's not as bad overall as I make it out to be there, but it is absolute shit in the all the design aspects related to gameplay compared to Thief which came out the same year, and I'm just pissed off that a hundred times more people were introduced to MGS instead of Thief.

>>2205864

I'm not so sure. Garrett is not a good person. He doesn't avoid murder out of kindness or compassion, but out of egomania. It's risky to infiltrate undetected without resorting to permanent solutions while doing it. It's risky to set ridiculous loot quotas for yourself. With Garrett's skills, tactically sensible solutions are easy. And easy tasks are not interesting. If all of the guards would be wasted, where would the challenge be?

>>2205953
>I'm just pissed off that a hundred times more people were introduced to MGS instead of Thief.
Why do you fucking care so much? Are you an autist?
People like MGS because it's more of a movie than a game, it's simple, easy, and fun. Good for them, let them have fun.

Not everyone can enjoy a slow-paced infiltration game, most people want to have fun immediately, they don't want to sneak around at a snail's pace when they can just run around at mach 2 and shoot everyone in the face.
>it fails as a videogame of its era
Nice opinion here mate, too bad most critics gave it 10/10.
>inb4 "reviewers and critics have shit tastes, I know I'm right because fuck you".

>thematically not relevant to my interests
There, you're finally honest with yourself. It's not that the game is shit, it's that you have autist tastes and anything that you don't like is a weaaboo autist shit made to cater for tryhards pseudo-philosophers.
We understand you have shit tastes, DSP. Don't think you're always right.

>Garrett is not a good person
And yet he still saves everyone while he could just leave the City and leave people to fight off the Trickster's creatures or Karras' dust.

Just a view from the ocean level.

>>2206301
10/10 would sneak in

>>2205953

I disagree. Garret is a good person, just a really jaded and bitter one with trust issues. He's not a paragon of virtue of course, but when shit starts going down he does what's necessary to protect the city.

He's also very loyal to the few people he considers friends. Just look at his interactions with Basso. He rescues his ass from prison, and later helps rescue his fiancée as well. He even gives him some expensive wedding rings for free, which is super out of character for him.

>>2206435
I agree that Garret is sometimes a good person, but to be honest, you're kind of wrong in your examples.
>He rescues his ass from prison
Explained before the mission that he wants Basso's sister's "affection". So, good action or not, it's motivated.
>later helps rescue his fiancée as well
Also explained during the briefing that he wants Basso to owe, and wants to use the occasion to steal brouzoufs from the place.
>He even gives him some expensive wedding rings for free
I don't remember that one.

However, he does risk his life to find the truth during Deadly Shadows, and does respect Artemus and follows him, despite how much he wants the Keepers to leave him alone. Just watch the cutscenes in Metal Age, he has to be dragged to the Keeper Compound to hear the prophecies, and yet still listen to the keepers, even through he's aware they're trying to use him.

I'd say it depends from how you play it. He can be a total jerk or a nice guy, that's entirely up to the player.

>>2205953
MGS is a "devil in the details" game. It's a game where you can make your own rules and watch the consequences. even if they're simple, occasionally something unique happens and it's a chuckle. Fake AI that became all the rage. You don't have to like it, but you seem to have put an awful lot of thought into why you hate it.

People were more introduced to MGS because it was a console game with a large publisher behind it, and had japan and weeaboos behind it. Not much you can do about that. I introduced everyone I knew to Thief when it came out. I brought that shit to school, so I did my part...

I like the Thief franchise, but there's a part I don't understand.
>thief : the dark project
>bla bla yadda yadda
>you indirectly kill a god
>thief 2 happens
>"oh hi garrett I know you killed the motherfucking pagan god but let's kill mechanists together, tee-hee"
>thief 3 happens
>"oh hi garrett you helped us kill a god that was against us but we're going to kill you on sight because you stole some shit from us"
>"oh hi garrett you allied with us against the mechanist and even became familiar to Viktoria but we're going to murder you on sight because you stole some uninmportant shit"

Does everyone but me have Alzheimer in that world?

>>2207461
Is that your accounting of how the events played out? I saw it more like this:

>gather extensive dirt on all major factions
>prove loyal to none
>be outright hostile to most
>unsurprisingly targeted for murder

Are you sure you don't have the Zimers?

>>2207461

Saving the world from total destruction was more important to Viktoria than avenging the death of her friend, and even more important than her own life, so the lack of hostility from the pagans towards Garrett in Thief 2 was justified. She even admits to Garrett that she isn't as strong against the mechanists as he could be. Oh, and she put a blood curse on herself and Garrett. They were going to work together, no matter what.

The hostility in Deadly Shadows is stupid however. And it only manifests in the pointless faction system of the open world mission hub. The pagans shouldn't even be in the City because they hate manfool architecture.
The hammerites, well... They are fundamentalists who actually have some legal authority to enforce the laws of their religion. In their eyes, a thief like Garrett deserves to die. It's divine justice to them. ...Aaand the stupid faction system in TDS undermines that fact as well, by making it possible for Garrett to ally with them by doing pest control and burning a tree.

That reminds me, the original trailer for Deadly Shadows has one of the least accurate voiceovers ever. The narrator says "A man who has no past, no face,and no allies needs use his powers of deception to choose his destiny". Everything that leads to the game's story relates to Garrett's past, Garrett's face is seen more than ever before in the series, Garrett can actively seek alliances, and the whole idea of the keeper prophecies is that nobody chooses their destiny, it's all written.

>>2207579
>It's divine justice to them
But he saved their high priest and cooperated with them to kill the Trickster, nothing else than Satan.

>>2207585

You really think that fundies would just erase your prior transgressions based on good deeds? That's not exactly the impression that I got from their religion based on the texts they live by.

>When the thief did cry to the master
>"release me, for I repent, and shall do good all my days"
>then did the master strike the thief's hand from him with a blade. And the master said:
>"Go now and do good, for thy repentance has been paid."

>Hammerite Compendium of Precepts, Regimens and Rules of Conduct vol.2

>>2207602
We're not talking about good deeds. We're talking about taking down a goddamn god.

Posting a few more.

>>2208350
Or a powerful sorceror pretending to be a god. I never believed Constantine was actually The Trickster.

>>2208537
That's an interesting theory, mate.

>>2208532
>>2208535
>>2208540
Looks really good.

>>2208537

Constantine was the Trickster, but the Trickster was just a moderately powerful mortal demon of the ancient world that could rule over the weak and powerless forest-dwelling primitives as their god who gives and takes just like nature itself. As soon as the humans discovered a way to make advanced weapons, armor and sturdy architecture, when they lit their villages with torches and built walls to protect themselves from the creatures of the night, the Trickster was powerless. Nature was conquered, and its lord went into hiding until he discovered magical means to cheat the universe and skew the balance of power back to his side.

The Master Builder on the other hand, I doubt he even existed. It's probably exaggerated stories of the ancient carpenters and blacksmiths who introduced humans to technology, merged into a single story about a single man. And the hammerites are great builders themselves, who sadly attribute all their great technological accomplishments to their nonexistant god, and all their failings to themselves, just like christians in our world.

>>2209334

Yeah but we saw what happened when the Hammers go off the reservation. I'll take self-depreciating workmen over the robot apocalypse any day.

>>2209334
>the Trickster was powerless
Doesn't seem that powerful when you're fighting him in the Maw of Chaos. Not to mention he still easily slaughters the hammerers.
>inb4 "yeah but he had the Eye"
No, the Eye is an artefact, he only could use it for his ritual. He killed the hammerers and ruined their base with his own strength.

>>2205953
>>2206505
I'm not even sure why you would want Thief to have a large audience.
Most games that do that eventually turn to shit
Even with the reboot, people didn't really get hooked into the series, and I think it's better that way.

>>2206486
>I don't remember that one.
Check the fireplace next time you boot the game.

I wouldn't consider Deadly Shadows too consistent, it was made by different people, even with ex-LGS members and all that. Keepers were once the smartest motherfuckers, and then they're a bunch of morons.

>>2209454
I hope you meant "Doesn't seem that powerless", because the motherfucker wrecked me like he was the damn sun, and blocked the exit path with ice or whatever it was.

>>2209541
>I'm not even sure why you would want Thief to have a large audience.
>Most games that do that eventually turn to shit
>Even with the reboot, people didn't really get hooked into the series, and I think it's better that way.

No, games turn into shit if you try to make them for a large audience, instead of making the best game you can without compromising anything. That philosophy is the reason why games like Thief and Deus Ex exist. The developers wanted to make the best product they could for whatever audience likes the kind of game they wanted to make. They created their own audience, they didn't compromise their own design to appeal to an existing one.

The Thief reboot didn't appeal to fans because Eidos Montréal did every single design aspect wrong that the original trilogy did right, and it didn't appeal to anyone else because of overall shitty features and design, horrible technical issues, and deceptive marketing that tried to sell it as a stealthy Thief game for Thief fans.

Right now I'm playing Styx: Master of Shadows for the first time, and oh boy. That is how you do navigation and level design in a stealth game right. As opposed to Thief 2014 that is the prime example of the opposite.

>>2209557
...continued. There are some issues with the level design in Styx though. There are no readables, and very few instances of useful eavesdropping. The information you need to find the things you need to find can only be acquired through the objective indicators. If a game needs to tell you exactly which direction you need to go with an arrow, there are only two possibilities. Either you are stupid, or the game is designed wrong. At first I suspected that I was guilty of the former option, until I discovered that there literally is nothing indicating which thing of the thousand different things in the level I was required to take, other than the objective arrow.

And there's an annoying oversight in the climbing system. When you jump and grab a ledge, you automatically climb on top of it instead of staying there and hanging onto it, and you need to manually drop down to hang. Half of the times I've been seen by enemies has been due to Styx climbing up right in front of enemies instead of hanging on out of sight.

>>2209549
Ha, shit, you're right.

That's not ice, it's a crystal that causes constant damage to you. It's detailled in a tip that you can buy.

>>2209545
>Check the fireplace next time you boot the game.
Which game? Which mission?

>>2209557
>>2209560
Shit, I got my eyes on Styx for a while.

>>2209563
>Which game? Which mission?

Thief 2, Running Interference.

>>2209580

It's really good actually. But be prepared to be forced to play like someone who isn't completely retarded. I've heard that many players have had issues with the horribly annoying and unrealistic feature that you fall down if you walk off ledges instead of being stopped by an invisible wall.

Hello. Have this.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HLrpb8Z--fs

>>2209602
>the horribly annoying and unrealistic feature that you fall down if you walk off ledges instead of being stopped by an invisible wall.
What? You mean it's kinda like in Half Life?

>>2209769

Well, what I actually meant was that it's more like Real-Life and I was being sarcastic regarding the idea that it's somehow bad.

>>2209774
Not really following you here. When you jump from a ledge, you fall. What's the big deal?

Question about controls in Thief 1 and 2: Between 'run forward' and 'walk forward', which one do you guys prefer for W keybind?

>>2210049
run

If I need to walk, I'll just press shift, but most of the time, I need to run more than walk

>>2210058
But you can move slower with "creep + walk" than with "creep + run".

>>2210067
I would just crouch+hold shift and move slowly

no big deal.

I played through thief 2 with movement defaulted to walk, and it was kind of annoying. Maybe it's because my experience with other games, but I prefer to run.

>>2210067
To be honest, I finished all Thief games, and yet I NEVER used the "creep" button.

I never noticed it until you pointed it out, and I always though it was another unnecessary piece of shit that Deadly Shadows brough in.

>>2210109
Nah creep has always been there. It's never been that useful though.

>>2210160
Walk is pretty useless too.
I mean, you can simply keep tapping the forward run button even on metal surfaces without making a sound if time your steps right.

>>2209927

That's just it, it's not a big deal. You don't even need to "jump" off a ledge. What you said there implies that jumping is necessary to get off a ledge. If you walk past the ledge, you fall.

But many modern idiot players think that all platforms should have invisible walls and it should only be possible to fall off deliberately, by pressing the "drop down" or jump button. Those people think that jumping should be an automated transition from one platform to the next with the game doing all the work and there being no possibility to fall. They complain about having to play the game, they just want the game to play itself.

>>2210364
>many modern idiot players think that all platforms should have invisible walls and it should only be possible to fall off deliberately, by pressing the "drop down" or jump button
Ha. Yes. I met that in Kingdom of Amalur. I can assure you it's one of the most retarded thing I saw in a video game.
That, and the "make an account to save your game, even if you're playing a solo game" thingy.

Let's "thank" the consolefags for making that retarded crap popular. Christ, and I hoped it was unique to that game.

>>2209560
>And there's an annoying oversight in the climbing system. When you jump and grab a ledge, you automatically climb on top of it instead of staying there and hanging onto it, and you need to manually drop down to hang.

After playing more, I found out that if you press and hold jump while trying to grab a ledge, that's when you stay hanging and you'll only climb up if you release jump and press it again. You know where I found that information? In the random hints in the loading screens. Isn't it brilliant how modern games only tell you tiny pieces of absolutely essential information at complete random?

>>2211557
>Isn't it brilliant how modern games only tell you tiny pieces of absolutely essential information at complete random?
Bitch, please.
Back in the days, you wouldn't even find this tip on a loading screen, you'd have to experiment by yourself or visit gamesfaq.

Or read the manual.

>>2211557
Is that you DSP?

This thread made me want to replay the series. I don't need TFix or Tafferpatcher if I own GOG version, right?

I was disappointed with Thief by the second level. Suddenly infiltrating castles and evading security to rob 'em blind was replaced by zombie giant spider resource management bullshit.

>>2211613
Well the second half of the level is sneaking around a heavily guarded prison. But yeah, the zombie sections are kind of lame. It's one of the low points of an otherwise great game.

Luckily levels like Song of the Caverns more than make up for it.

>>2211617
I seriously considered dropping the game during Return To The Cathedral mission.

>this is scary as fuck
>I want to leave
>fuck this old man please just let me escape for fuck's sake

>>2211571
>>2211568

Emergent techtiques are what players are supposed to come up with their own using the systems that the game has at least tried to teach them. The basic control interface needs to be explained. Forcing players to spend the first hour doing random things with random keys just to find out all of the basic movement functions available serves no purpose other than to allow lucky pricks to feel condescension from knowing something that others have not yet been able to figure out. The information needs to be somewhere, and not just randomly. If it isn't in a tutorial, it needs to be in a manual, or it needs to just make sense, like the fact that you can knock people unconscious with the baton in Deus Ex. Holding the "key used for climbing up ledges" when grabbing a ledge in order to "not climb" up the ledge is not intuitive, and needs explaining. And that explanation only appears randomly in a loading screen.

>>2211649
>it needs to just make sense, like the fact that you can knock people unconscious with the baton in Deus Ex
Yeah, about that, this never worked with me. I never managed to one-shot a guard in Deus Ex.

>>2211671

You need to hit the right spot, and more importantly you need to have skill points for the weapon you're using. Deus Ex is a role-playing game. The player can't make JC Denton one-shot guards if JC Denton does't know how to one-shot guards.

The RPG mechanics work against figuring out things like baton knockouts. Nobody puts all their points to melee weapons on their first run. You start the game and the first thing you get is the Prod which is immediately explained to be a non-lethal weapon. Shortly after you find a baton. You try it out by whacking someone on the head, and he doesn't go down. He just gets angry. You reload a save and try the prod instead. The enemy is instantly rendered unconscious. You conclude that melee weapons you find are for killing, and the prod is the only nonlethal melee weapon.

Deus Ex melee system has one thing though which many first person stealth games seem to miss. Figuring out depth on a 2d screen is difficult, and you need to bump into an enemy to know that you're close enough to hit. Deus Ex and Thief do not alert enemies when you bump into them from behind. So you can get as close as you can, aim, and hit, without having to worry about your character being stupid enough to rub against the target.

>>2211701
How course I put points in melee weapons before complaining that they suck.
Someone complaining about Styx witholding crucial informations, Deus Ex isn't that bad.
Headshot causes LESS damage with the baton. To maximize damage, you need to sneak behind the NSF, and hit his body. NOT his head.

Made some progress today. I've mostly finished the harbor area (Excalibrius) and have started creating the cathedral (Illastrius). Praise Newdark!... and the Builder.

>>2211926

>>2211928

>>2211931
4,001 polys in views. Try that in OldDark.

>>2211926
>>2211934
>>2211931
>>2211928
oh wow. that looks fucking huge

>>2211642
Why would you want to escape when you could party with these guys?

>>2211934

I remember the first time playing Seven Shades of Mercury on a machine with Windows XP and obviously no NewDark. The game ran at 5fps except when looking at the floor.

>>2212497
What are OldDark and NewDark?

>>2212665

NewDark is an unofficial engine update that was built using the original Dark Engine source code which was discovered a few years ago.

>>2212681
Why would the engine affect the performance? I though the performance came from your specs rather than from the game.

>>2212712

The engine was super-optimized for the hardware and software of its time. Making it only able to render a specific amount of polygons instead of anything up from that was better for performance.

And the Dark Engine is also all sorts of weird. The world is so tightly simulated in all its aspects that strange exceptions of programming aren't even possible to implement without major restructuring. For example, the Dark Engine games hold immersion to such a high regard that it's literally impossible for the game to take control over which direction the player is aiming at. In any in-game situation the player needs to have free control. If you want to make an in-game cutscene with a camera floating through the scene, you can't stop the player from looking around. You can only stop the player from walking around with invisible walls around the platform that moves the player through the scene.

>>2212720
Ha yeah, I remember a FM where Garrett is knocked out. I had a really fun bug with it : by spinning my mouse around, I managed to get Garrett to spin constantly as the cutscene started.

Also, just to be sure, the Dark Engine you're talking about is the one used in Thief and Thief II, right?

>>2212735

Yeah, it was used in Thief 1, System Shock 2 and Thief 2

>>2212820
I though System Shock 2's engine was a modified version of Thief's.

Through I admit I don't understand all that thing about hardware, software and polygons. I don't even know if my computer is good or not.

>>2212838
System Shock 2's engine is a modified version of Thiefs. It's still the same engine though. Version numbers in programming are arbitrary really. For example, Engine v1 and Engine v1.2.1 are the same engine, but one is just a different iteration.

OK guys, Shalebridge Cradle, The Haunted Cathedral, or Return to the Cathedral for scariest Thief Level?

>>2214168
I'd say Shalebridge Cradle. I spend the first half of the level moving extremely slowly and staying in the shadows even through there's absolutely nothing in that part.

But I don't think the cradle woulda been that scary for me if I hadn't played the Cathedral first, so I'm not absolutely sure about that.

>play The Haunted Cathedral
>the Eye speaks
>jumps

>play Return to the Cathedral
>runs around because lol they're only zombies
>runs down the spiral staircase
>suddenly meets a zombie literally face-to-face
>jumps so much I do a 540° and run the fuck away

Gotta admit I liked these levels, they were more about exploring around and staying unnoticed while doing stuff when going from point A to point B while looting everything.
The Haunted Cathedreal was good, the Maw of Chaos wasn't.

>>2212720
Nice insight on the engine.
Though I'm pretty sure the full source code was never really released, and newdark gets updated by this Le Corbeau guy.

>>2212720
It's kind of stupid to say the engine doesn't allow you to control the camera because it held "immersion to such a high regard." It's not like the game doesn't have cutscenes. There are lots of old engines that don't have this capability, it's simply not a feature they had use for. If you don't intend to do in-engine cutscenes (and many games did not), no reason to spend time coding things that would help you accomplish it.

>>2214168

It's funny that Randy Smith said that The Cradle was never intended to be a remake of Return to the Cathedral, but they have some striking similarities and weird coincidences.

-The mission names have the same first letters. "Return to The Cathedral" vs "Robbing The Cradle".
-You get sealed in and you need to find another way out
-You meet a friendly ghost who helps you, and it asks you to fetch some stuff
-You need to go in the flooded basement to turn on the generator
-The mission has 9 special undead that are faster and more dangerous than normal zombies
-The complex has an observatory

>>2214296

Yeah you're right. It's just weird that a thing as simple as taking control of the player's aim direction can't be accomplished using the tools that the fan mission authors use to make whole campaigns with loads of custom functions.

Though there are some things that Ken Levine explained that are just exceptions that the engine was never designed to handle, like hitscan weapons in System Shock 2. The Dark Engine was meant for firing arrows slowly. Physical projectiles with physical properties. You could not make weapons that deal damage to raycasted targets at a distance. An object with mass can't travel the speed of light. Well, it can, but the floating point calculations of the engine aren't accurate enough to support masses small enough to not instantly destroy every target that such object would hit at light speed. And the collision detection probably couldn't make objects that fast collide with anything.

>>2214376
>-The mission has 9 special undead that are faster and more dangerous than normal zombies
I remember the two named corpses in the cathedral and the puppets from the cradle, but there aren't 9 of them.

>>2214407

The Cathedral has 9 haunts and the Cradle has 9 puppets. ...And how did you get the impression that I meant brothers Martello and Renault, the friendly dead hammerites, when I was talking about undead that are "faster and more dangerous"?

>>2214376
You got me looking into Thief's directors
Found something interesting here:
> (And about Thief3)Thief's backstory was originally written as a trilogy, and we've always hoped that we'd be able to tell Garrett's entire story. Fortunately right now Thief seems popular enough to allow us to be able to do that. In fact we have several things in Thief II that help set up events in Thief 3.

What was he talking about exactly? I even went back to see Thief 2's ending again. Did they actually reach for the same plan for the plot in Deadly Shadows?

>>2214412
Ha, that's what you were talking about. Sorry, I stopped at "special undead", and I understood it as "unique undead". Since, you know, you can find haunts in other levels, like the bonehoard.

>>2214443
Would make sense. First the pagans are faggots and get pacified by Garrett, then the Hammerers are bitching, and get pacified. Would make sense that the Keeper would throw a fit too.

>>2214518
I've thought they took the Keepers for a spin ever since they showed their involvement in the game, but they still felt a bit rushed, a lot dumber than in the first two games, and I thought Deadly Shadows wasn't respecting any consistency to fit in the original plan for the trilogy.
Let's not mention the faction affinity system.

I'm still very curious to see how would have Thief III worked by LGS been.

>>2214525
>I'm still very curious to see how would have Thief III worked by LGS been.
Everyone does, mate.
But even if DS is pretty bad, it's better than not having any game at all.

>>2214224
The source code was found on a dreamcast disc a while back that someone found in a dev console (after the DC version was scrapped). It floated around and was handed over to eidos montreal. Corbeau definitely has his hands on a copy though. What he's done isn't possible without it.

>>2214525
I think they weren't properly represented myself. But in the first 2 games Garrett does bitch about them being arrogant and putting on airs... Seems fitting that if you saw them from the inside out they'd be just as fallible as anyone else in the city. It just should've been handled better.

>>2214527
Yes, but I'm curious if there's any type of insight that should give us a hint as to how was the last piece of the trilogy originally intended.
I suppose Deadly Shadows is still acceptable to an extent, considering plenty of exLGS devs gathered up for it, and also when you realize Thief 2's already lost plenty of atmosphere compared to the first in favor of prioritized map design.
If anyone cares for theorycrafting or just discussing, here's what I was talking about http://youtu.be/o5SpLH5oDEs?t=1m52s
I suppose Deadly Shadows melds well from the "Keepers laying the cards on Garrett" perspective.
>>2214614
Any updates on Eidos handing over the source code to the community? Last time I heard, they "were consulting with their lawyers"
I have no idea how Thief would work on a Dreamcast, save for the keyboard addon.

>>2214636
Probably with a bit of custom UI. Extra overlays for selecting items or what-not.

I've started working on the interior of the cathedral today.

>>2215124

>>2215126

>>2215126
>>2215128
>>2215124
Pretty baller. Almost looks more like Unreal than Thief to me.

On an unrelated FM note, anyone here have a problem with FMs using colored lighting? It seems to make shadows too bright and not as clear cut as they should for indicating where you can and can't hide. Seems to be a common issue I've noticed.

>>2215186
>Almost looks more like Unreal than Thief to me.
>stealth game where you have to infiltrate a skaarj fortress
Yes.

>>2216126
You could make it happen with Thievery UT.

>>2216209
>Thievery UT
Of course, the only unreal I DON'T have.

>>2216259
you can find it cheap just about anywhere these days. seen it at yard sales and goodwills more than once for a dollar
or 5 online

>>2216126

I want a stealth game set in the earlier years of Kyle Katarn in Star Wars, when he betrays the Empire and starts his career as a mercenary spy. The game could be entirely set in the first Death Star, and have the whole station explorable.

And I want the Alien team of Creative Assembly to do it because they probably couldn't bring themselves to deviate from the 70's art style of the SW original trilogy even if they were held at gunpoint.

>>2216596
But Anon, the old trilogy is shit. It doesn't have my favourite character, Jar Jar Binks.

>>2187948
I never finished Deadly Shadows because this mission was incredibly frustrating due to how Thief 3 Works. Very narrow corridors, the fact that you play a third person model in first person view made it so that you kept randomly touching guards passing near you, and the lighting never stopped flickering in that mission for some reason.

>>2211934
Does the engine count in quads or in tris? It's crazy how good a low poly scene can look as long as lighting and composition are spot-on.

Who made Newdark anyway? I mean, it was uploaded at some french forum by random guy.

>>2212720
Well there were several cutscenes in System Shock 2 were the camera would walk around the body of the Many and I don't recall being able to look around at all. Apparently they had a hell of a time coding that though.

>>2216856
Meh, that's easy.
>lock the mouse
>hide the UI
>move the map around the player

>>2216856
You absolutely can look around during these scenes, I did it maybe three nights ago.

>>2205331
>metal gear solid
>weeaboo
>main character is american
>most of supporting cast is american, except for meiling
>take place in america
>weeaboo
You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.

>>2216710
Did you really have to do this?

>>2216850
Read >>2214614
Corbeau is pretty based
>>2217646
The setting didn't really matter that much for him I guess. It just comes down to the game being made by Japanese with their quirks of humor

>>2217683
>implying Japanese have a sense of humor
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2217706
It's.. there. I do get a laugh sometimes, it's just different cultures et al.
Anyway, enough xenophobia, how about getting down to some stealing

>>2217712
How far away are the bear pits?

>>2217715
Um..

>>2217754
you wanna come with?

>>2217758
>Twelve fucking hours by car
Tch, couldn't pay me enough.

Is NewDark the real name, or is it a nickname?

>>2217846
Does it matter? It's just what the community calls it, makes things simple.
I'm not sure how Corbeau called it, but that's what he posts on the forums nowadays.

>>2217869
It matters if I want to google it, doofus.

>>2217790
what? you soft belly.

>>2217912
TFix
http://www.ttlg .com/FORUMS/showthread.php?t=134733
Tafferpatcher
http://www.ttlg .com/FORUMS/showthread.php?t=131106
both have NewDark, knock yourself out man.

>>2217712
>I live a 15 minute drive away from Bafford House
So, should I bribe a servant for a map?

>>2218164
Knock yourself out matey.
Make sure he's out of town, and don't take the front gate.

>>2218178
Actually, had to check again, this time with simple walking.

>>2219162
>202 hours
>more than a week
>no break to piss
>no sleeping

>>2219318
No taffing around, either. Taffer

>>2219318
This explains so much about why the guards are so easy to sneak past. Poor bastards have a 200+ hour commute.

>>2219751
>commute

The guards live at the Bear Pits?

>>2221354
They live next to the bear pites.

It took me far too long to realize the gold doesn't carry over between missions so you might as well spend all of it.

>>2221659

>implying you need more than just a handful of rope arrows for any mission

What are you, a casual?

>>2221659
Back in the day, levels used to be balanced for a finite and static amount of resources. In modern game design, weapons have universal ammo and ammo can be refilled at supply stations, and health regenerates. No need to test whether a level has enough health or ammo and if it's distributed in places that players can find, because those resources are infinite.

>>2221659
Thief 3 lets you carry gold over, instead you can only carry a limited amount of each item.

>>2221659
How about the gold you collect during the mission? Is that carried over the next mission?

>>2222476

How is that different from what he just said? No, you can buy supplies for the next mission, but Garrett uses the rest for his everyday needs.

>>2222483
>buying items
>no finishing the game with only the blackjack and a single rope arrow
Too bad the rope arrow is unrealistic as fuck.

>>2221769
Yes, I'm playing on normal difficulty instead of expert.

>>2222576

How dare you, sir? How DARE you...

>>2222579
Since I've been finishing the levels with far more items than I needed, even without buying any beforehand, I'm tempted to start again on expert.

>>2222579

I only play on expert too, but give Bonehoard a try on Normal difficulty. It's a whole new mission then. Instead of a few high-value loot items, the entire level is filled with lots of smaller loot.

And after years of ghosting on expert, it feels like 1998 when you go on a blackjacking spree on normal difficulty.

>>2222656
>mfw I finished both thieves game without bending

>>2222789

wat

>>2222796
I'm thinking of that trick where you bend forward and knock a guard coming toward you.

I never did it, and I learned about it six months ago.

>>2222801
Yeah, lean forward is one of the dirtiest tricks you've got.

>>2222824
Am I mistaking "bend" and "lean"? I thought they were synonyms. Sorry for the confusion then.

>>2222830
I was simply saying it like it's written in the game controls.

>>2222838
>mfw there's actually an input to creep
Oh wow. And I went crouching in every level.
Is it possible to see in the code if there's a difference between walking and creeping? I know creeping is a little slower than walking, but, I dunno, is there a visibility bonus or something?

>>2222845
You've got like three modes if I remember right(creep, walk, run, and all of them can be combined with crouch?)
In any case, creeping while crouched and using walk forward should basically make you a motherfucking ninja.

>>2222849
You can creep while crouching?

Damn, now I feel like I missed most of Thief's fun features.

>>2222851
It's basically "the more you know, the easier it gets"
Did anybody try getting that old Thief 2 Multiplayer mod to work? It was before Newdark
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124169
You basically need to get the game working without Newdark and you're set

>>2222854
>It's basically "the more you know, the easier it gets"
Which means I finished Thief in the hardest difficulty setting with a huge handicap.
I like myself a little more, now.

>>2222854
played it with a friend. pretty glitchy though. I was hosting. he couldnt blackjack. it was cool but a mess.

>>2222849
This is the only way I've ever successfully snuck up behind a guard on a tile floor.

I cant even tell if T1 or T2 is better
my favorite level ever is the one in T2 that starts in the rooftops and then in a big mechanist tower, does /vr/ like it ?

>>2223148
Life of the Party (that level) is the best in the series IMO. Being a single mission, its length puts to shame a lot of games ever since. Seriously, there is so much to miss on the first playthrough, and even then you can easily spend hours finding your way to angelwatch discovering stuff on the way.

I would rate them like that

Gameplay : TDM
Atmosphere : TDS (Overlook Manor, Pagan Sanctuary, Robbing the Cradle... 'nuff said)
Level Design : TMA
Art Style : TDP

>>2222845
From what I can tell, there are two ways sound can alert guards: 1) a single sound is loud enough to be over their threshold, or 2) quieter sounds in quick succession "build up" and cross the threshold.

If you're right behind a guard on tile, creep-crouching will still alert him as soon as you get that single "CLACK" footstep sound. But, if he's further away, because it's not only quieter but slower (and making sounds less often), you might get away with one clack.

I dunno, it's finicky, and guards can be more sensitive at different times, so it's hard to test. I really want some modder to explain all the ins and outs of how the AI works.

>>2223263
Interesting.
I made some experiment with other stealth game.
The system in Splinter Cell seems similar, with a variation depending from the noise. A silenced pistol will alert the guard, while a bottle breaking will just make him suspicious.

>>2223263
Thief has a pretty advanced sound/AI propagation system

>>2223148
>does /vr/ like it ?
Everybody loves that mission.

>>2223195
Are you sure Atmosphere goes to TDS? I would've rather given the point to TDP really
It's just the problem of it being really a forced FPS while it's clear the game was meant to be played in third person
The faction system also killed my atmosphere-boner.
I'd still respect your opinion, but I wish they would've spent more time bringing in rope arrows/generally polishing the game than porting it for fucking Xbox

>>2224380

It's weird but the fact that TDP has a simpler graphics renderer and doesn't support colored light maps, actually helps its atmosphere in my opinion. In Thief 2 the torches and fireplaces flood the rooms with their comfortable warm lighting, and the cloudy night skies with the glow of twilight in the horizon makes it feel like a warm summer night.

In Thief 1 the only thing you see is this cold, distant, alien light that wraps the whole world in foreboding gloom. There is no moon in the sky. Not a single shred of cloud. Every night it's the same star-filled blackness of that one night you felt was extraordinarily cold.

>>2224406
Yup, I feel the same way. Low-res textures and pure white light really makes the world seem cold and distant indeed.

>>2224406
Yeah, I'm not sure regressing technology is the best way to provide atmosphere, rather than them just having different ideas for Thief 2.
I did have a feeling of the sort about T1 but could never put my finger on it.

>>2224380
Yeah the first person camera on a third person character is crap, but that's more of a gameplay issue.

I prefer the atmosphere from TDS because :
- I find the sound design to be the best of the 3
- The lighting is more dynamic and colourful, which is just my thing
- Also the semi-open world makes me feel more immersed in the city, despite the shitty loading times (thanks consolitis). I love how you can see the streets that you've known since start evolving as you complete missions and piss off factions.

The Minimalist Project mod is a great addition, plays more like the first games

>>2224661
One thing I appreciated about pic related, it seemed as if they actually considered the zombies not really having any lungs to make the typical cliche'd moans
Although I admit I was digging too deep into it, I still regarded it as one of the highest points of TDS
I guess it's the subtle things, after all.
Your reasons just make me dissapointed knowing Looking Glass would've made the same thing and better(albeit with lower graphical power compared to TDS, yet enough to be an improvement from T1&2) if Eidos didn't leave them.

>>2224661
>Also the semi-open world makes me feel more immersed in the city

The open world aspect of Deadly Shadows made feel less immersed in the city. I could have easily accepted the idea that I could walk around tiny sections of the different city districts, and the actual "borders" of those districts could not be reached, with the exception of the ocean shore at the docks. But the city hub in that game connected those districts with gates.You stepped through a gate, emerged on the other side, walked 15 meters across the entire district and stepped through the next gate to the next district. The only part that wasn't completely connected like that was Auldale, which had a bridge between it and the Old Quarter. But that still didn't change the fact that you could fit the Old Quarter in a tiny corner sandwiched between Stonemarket, South Quarter, the Docks and the river. And the Old Quarter is supposed to have an opera house that is almost as big as the city of TDS combined, and in addition to that, an entire sub-district that is walled off and filled with undead.

And speaking of things that ruin immersion, the worst offender must be the faction system. Do random chores for religious zealots who have a religious obligation and duty to avenge theft of their holy relics and to punish criminals in general, to gain their favor. Do the same bullshit for other religious nuts who hate civilization and technology so much that they can't actually even be in the city, but just are, for no reason other than because of the faction system.

>>2224813
>>2224380
Yeah, like I said before, the faction system is fucked up.
There's also the Keepers completely losing their cool in this game as opposed to their depictions from the first two games, the main reason I couldn't consider this the end of the trilogy.

>>2224813
Same here.
I preferred the City left undescribed. Going by the descriptions given in the briefings, I imagined something à la Tim Burton : a giant, dark, oppressive city that even Garrett has trouble crossing safely.

And then Deadly Shadows arrived and made the City even smaller than Soulforge.

>>2224901
I'm currently drawing a map of The City for a project in the works and let me tell you, it is fucking massive. I took the Talismans map in Thief Gold as a base and expanded it significantly. I also added several districts and quarters found in fan missions like Murkbell, Lampfire Hills or Darksmoke, among others. I'll post it once I'm finished.

>>2224914
Any percentage?

>>2224916
I'd say I'm about 35% done. The ramparts, the big river and all of the small rivers are all done. I'm currently drawing the building blocks and that takes a very long time. So far the center of the City is done, that means the Old Quarter (including the Sealed Section), Downtowne, Shalebridge, Hightowne and Newmarket. These are all finished. South Quarter and Stonemarket are nearly done as well.

>>2224841
Yeah that always weirded me out.

>Secret Society sends their best assassins after you
>Wind up wandering around in plain sight murdering random people passing by

>>2225393
And they never explained why Garrett can hear them.

>>2225393
>>2225502
My idea was how they weren't even a sort of faction that would be affected by anything to begin with. Kind of like the Time Lords from Who, they'd just sit there and "It's all as it was written" all day
The part where they had assassins is both stupid and overly rushed.

>>2226719
What would they want Garrett for then? Knowing that he has a direct hand in the prophecies in T1 and T2.

>>2227203
At the end of T2, Garrett is the one who wants to read the prophecies. The Keepers wanted to warn him, probably to avoid the last prophecies to cause a catastrophe.
I think the last prophecy was to talk about the death of the Thief, and the Keeper unsure of what it means, but willing to warn Garrett, as they did during T2.

And then the game ends, and "Thief's death" only means that Garrett leaves the city or something like that.

>>2185868
>Karras anonymously gives Garrett a mechanical eye
Source?

>>2228435
Dialogue from the final mission of Thief 2. Karras admits that he created the eye for Garret in an attempt to win him over to the Mechanist side.

>>2228443
I though the schism between Hammerer and Mechanist happened between Thief and Thief 2.

>>2228435

That timeline is nowhere near accurate. Karras did give Garrett the mechanical eye, but things such as there being something like 2 years between Thief 2 and 3, or the idea that The Eye has anything to do with the Pagans and that the Trickster was responsible for the Old Quarter outbreak, those are just wrong.

>>2228480
It did, Karras was still a Hammer at the time that he made Garret's eye.

It's not fnished yet, but here's how the map of The City I'm drawing looks like. (I'll obviously scan everything to have a much higher-res and non shit version once it's finished).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDuDW6TwnZo

Sometimes i hardly believe they did this on the doom 3 engine.

>>2229725
This shit's crazy man.
Did you really make it out of the trilogy? Where did you get all this info from?

>>2230704
>out of the trilogy
Ha ha ha ha ha! Do you really think that TDS' small-ass map is relevant?
I like cities that don't look like some mountain village.

>>2230773
You also have a small portion of the city in Thief 2
I just fucking wish LGS had made Thief 3 which would've certainly had a much better version of it.

Speaking of stuff related to old Looking Glass games, Paul Neurath's new Underworld game has already reached 2/3rds of its crowdfunding goal. I wish that game would be successful, so that Neurath could resurrect LGS, or at least be able to make more games with the LGS design philosophy.

>>2231078
There's an obvious demand for it, and while I'm afraid I haven't played more of their stuff, I'm pretty sure incidentally Ultima Underworld is their first game.
It would be madness.

>>2231182
I doubt the band's really going to be togheter, since some of them quit after things went south.

>>2230704
I based it off TG's talisman map with Randy Smith's indications on the Mapping The City thread on TTLG, but everything else is just me filling the blanks and adding lots and lots of shit. Almost nothing from TDS is there (except the widow Moira's manor and the cradle) and Auldale is not a district, instead it is a quarter found in Hightowne and is the heart of The City where the Baronial Palace is (and where most of the administrative buildings are as well). In my canon for this project Thief 2 and DS did not take place.

>>2230773
>Do you really think that TDS' small-ass map is relevant?
Relevant in what way? If this were to be modeled out in-game I'd like to see T3's city sections.

Regardless, make sure you post high res scans of that when you're done. Looks pretty baller.

>>2231258
>Relevant in what way
That's my point. Not relevant at all.
Seriously, the quaters are smaller than the various buildings around town. The Cradle is bigger than Auldale.

>>2232042
The quarters shown in the game are not even 10% of their real size. Ion Storm wanted to have these maps at least 10 times bigger.

>>2232174

Yeah, but their borders are designed in a way that implies that they are that size and no larger. When ever you pass through a gate or a keeper door, you emerge from the other side of an identical gate or keeper door. If there would be variation, then there could be undefined amounts of cityscape between the playable city sections.

And South Quarter has exits to other districts on the north- and south sides, which means that the South Quarter district is exactly that wide in the north-south axis, and no wider.

The city hub is not designed in a way that makes it seem like you're only accessing tiny sections of those separate districts. Almost everything points to the idea that they are a singular consistent construct separated by loading zones, meaning that the City really is that small.

>>2232174
Maybe. TOO BAD THEY MADE A GAME FOR CONSOLES.

Seriously, my old Windows 98 has crappy performance, and yet the maps on Thief 2 were really fucking huge, with minor performance drops. How could they fuck TDS like that?

>>2232262
I just assumed you were passing through cut areas, despite the same door thing. But whateva

hereyago

>>2232748
Damn taffers.

>>2232778
Yeah, like that one Taffer who went and spilled mead all over the floor.

>>2231257
Because of the Mechanists? Heh.
In any case, Builder bless you man, hope you'll meet no difficulties

>>2233780
I actually like the Mechanists, but my main beef with T2 is that it looks way too modern compared to TG. In my vision the entirety of The City looks just like how it's depicted in Thief 1. There are a couple of proto-victorian buildings around but nothing like the T2's Bank or T2's manors. Besides, my project takes place a year before TG.

>>2234697
I liked Thief 2's environment because some areas (thieves highway) showed a decent amount of older style areas and other areas (bank vault) showed how much karras's ideology had taken over.

Thief 1 and 2 are about equal in my book though. They complement each other very well... Thief 3 is obviously worse, but I still dug it. Thief 4 can eat a dick.

I really liked the Cradle.

>>2236591
I like shipping and receiving

>>2237356
I like any map that lets be access the roof and spy on people from above.

>>2237385
There are fan-missions entirely devoted to the thieves' highway and rooftop hopping such as The Thieves' Highway (actual mission name), The Power of Suggestion, A Theft in Hightowne, Disorientation, Endless Rain and Bones Ep1: The Old Quarter to name a few.

http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_II_Gold
>tfw daikatana

>>2237532
Do they have recorded conversations to drop eaves on?

I want into doing FMs, any tutorials and info for Dromed?

>>2237356
>playing in normal
You disgrace this thread.

>>2238775
>implying it's a picture I took

faggot

>>2238769
Dale has a bunch of beginner videos on Youtube if you want to take a look at them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFIcXS4qx4E

Then you have this old and classic tutorial by Komag: http://www.willowberry.net/thief/KomagTutvT2.pdf

And finally feel free to use the search functio for specific questions n in the Editor's Guild on TTLG, it's a goldmine.

>>2238810
>not taking your own picture
Lazy taffer.

>>2239125
Thanks

Why am I having mouse acceleration in Thief 2? Is it in it originally?

>>2239431
Not to my knowledge. Installed the Tafferpatch?

Hey taffers, is there a way to disable texture filtering in newdark (i.e. pixelated instead of blurry) but still keep the lightmaps blurred?

>>2241824
I already asked on TTLG and sadly I don't think it's possible. It's entirely possible to do it in DromEd though, but only in the editor mode by using the command set_2d_tex_filter.

>>2242113
Well thanks anyway. Though Thief looks great as it is, I like how unfiltered textures make everything look sharper and warmer in old shooters.

>>2242252
I think I understand you. Sometimes, I turn off the antialiasing just for fun.

RIP in pieces thread.

Bumping the thread with this still heavily WIP Hammerite church.

>>2246214
dang that's pretty.

actually, I'm kind of surprised how little we visit the hammers given how influential they are in the series.

>>2246264
What do you mean? You explore Hammer areas just as much, if not more than Pagan ones.

>>2246308
it feels brief to me, anyway.
Cragscleft and Undercover

>>2246214
10/10 would steal from.

>>2246214
sick, nice job

but the high res stained glass clashes with the old vanilla textures a lil

how'd u pull up those render stats anyway

>>2246420
Return to the Cathedral

>>2246564
That stained glass is a stock texture, actually. It's just slightly upscaled compared to the rest.
You can activate the stats from DromEd's menus, or open the console and type show_stats.

>>2246590
I'm talking active Hammer areas.

>>2246613
Do Mechanists count?

>>2246697
do mechanists count as hammers?

anon, that's sounding like heresy to me

>>2246697
Looks like someone hasn't been tortured enough.

Latest Supreme Ghost video from ghoster extraordinaire klatremus. This time he does Rocksbourg 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWiMAgUvLRA

>>2246697
>This video is blocked in your country.
Fuck off.

How come Benny is always in every mansion Garrett robs at the same time? Is he an undercover Keeper?

>>2247709
nah, he just gets fired and hired a lot.
guy must have a fantastic resume and shitty job security

>>2247709
Because extra voice actors cost more money.

>>2247304
should I watch if I haven't played the fm yet?

>>2247709
He gets fired after Garret robs wherever he's working and gets rehired somewhere else with the snarky guard.

There's some cut dialogue in one of the missions in Thief 2 that confirms this I believe.

>>2248318
It's not cut, it plays in Masks. Benny is in the garden and the snarky guard has a cold and is upstairs on the patio thing with the arches.

the fire ghosts are fucking scary

Have a rooftop shot.

Yikes.

>>2248824
nice jorge

>>2237858
it's a pity but it was just 3 missions and a handful of new enemies... nothing modders can't really do by themselves and daikatana is pretty maligned and misunderstood imo

also got an amusing captcha

>>2248823
The what?

>>2249289
http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Shadow
Do you even Thief Gold bro?

>>2247760
>Implying Russell isn't versatile enough to voice act for 5 additional guards and their mothers

>>2249136
There's also the unfinished netcode Tos managed to revive.
Other than that, I'm not sure there was a lot to improve on gameplaywise, at least compared to the TDP->Gold leap.
Fix Casing the Joint? Wake up the Tree Beasts in Trail of Blood?

>>2249307
Why would I buy Thief Gold when I already have Thief? Unlike you, I don't need to pretend to be a primary fan by buying a remade version of the first game.

>>2249440
Good on you, the TDP version is quite difficult to find these days.
Wish I had a triangle box copy myself.

>>2248824
Mission? Reminds me of the station entrance in T2X, only in night-time

>>2249565
It's a mission I'm working on.

>>2249440
It's got more missions?

>>2249440
bug fixes, some ai and enemy placement tweaking, remodeled levels, some new textures, 3 more missions?

>>2249440
>Unlike you, I don't need to pretend to be a primary fan by buying a remade version of the first game.
I don't even understand what you're implying here.

>>2237858
http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/FM:T2_T2G_First_City_College_-_Bulgarian_Taffer
Is this any good? Are there any other "undercover" style FM's worth getting?

>>2251147
I think he thinks that thief gold isn't a updated version of TDP with more levels and such

>>2251228
I think you think he thinks you think I think he thinks you're wrong and where's the caveman?

>>2253236
The caveman is here

Anyone want a copy of THI4F? I have one from the humble bundle, and I don't want it.

>>2254670
Already have it.

>>2254670

Give it to me, i just couldn't decide if i wanted those games.
xrfqhc@boximail.com

>>2254670
>not liking thi4f
Shit what are you doing

>>2255743
what are you doing?

>>2255641
Too late. Already gave it to an acquaintance.

You're not likely missing anything though.

>>2256297
>You're not likely missing anything though.
Aka "I haven't even played it but I know it's shit because all recent games are shit."

>>2256653
Don't try to defend 44444.

>>2256653
>Aka "I haven't even played it but I know it's shit because all recent games are shit."
Don't put words in my mouth you son of a bitch.
But yeah, it's obviously shit.

>>2256760
>"I don't know how to counter that man who is so superior to me in every way so I'll insult his mother"
Epic argument you clearly convinced me.

>>2256984
>Superior to anyone.

You're supporting Thi4f. You're not superior to anyone.

http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/6hNXB/silence-of-the-sleep
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/oN1Ff/double-dragon-neon

>>2257504
Epic argument again. Clearly you convinced me with your shitposting, because crying aloud works great.

>>2256984
lol. they deleted my post. cool
good job mods

>>2257724
Convinced you of what? What is your argument here?

T4 isn't retro anyway so you all need to shut it

>>2258410
>get his post erased
>blame the mods
Yeah, because it isn't your fault you violated the rules.

>>2258692
I still can't believe he baited you guys.
Y'all really have no fan missions to talk about?

>>2260034
That's a nice picture, anon.