/vr/ - Retro Games

dreamcast version has hd graphics and the limiter shop thing which i really really love
check that out

also seizure warning

Most played Dreamcast game.
Love it.

>>2173912

Go play Dodonpachi

>>2174003
Go away cavefag.

>>2173912
hard as shit
cool as shit

>>2174003
why? mars matrix is much worse, you dont even have bombs

>>2174004
0/10

i like how they attached your score to the exp, so in order to have a decent shot type in the later levels you really have to milk those points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRhFYV4-pBQ

I don't see the point of comparing this to dodonpachi at all, you can't even cancel out or deflect bullets in that game.
Giga Wing, however, does have share quite a bit of similarities mechanically to this game. GW is probably more approachable for beginners too.

>>2174009
Cool response bro, don't you have a STG score thread to ruin?

>>2173912
Good game. To everyone who has only played it through emulation, know that Mars Matrix suffers horrible input lag, some of the worst I've ever seen.

So at least play the actual thing before saying it sucks.

>>2174029
i played it through emulation years ago and never noticed any input lag

>>2174023
based rob

>>2174029
Interesting. I'm assuming you got that from the tests on shmups.system11.org.
So here's what I do to get rid of input lag in mame, I go into the slider menu and tone down the refresh rate by a frame or two. Of course that's running the game a little bit slower as well so it's technically cheating but I can't really notice the difference and it's not like I'm setting any world records any time soon anyway.
Just thought I should share.

>>2174029
shmupmame is supposed to have lagless mars matrix

>>2174039
This.

I've never heard of there being any input lag.

It's fun and very good.

But it's not one of my favourite shmups.

>>2174057
This, but shmupmame also requires some specific outdated roms to work that are different from the current official mame romset. Those can be a bit of a pain to find.

>>2174039
>>2174060
it has HUGE input lag in mame. go try the DC port and then come back to mame. it's night and day

>>2174134
have you tried shmupmame? how does it compare to DC port?

>>2174039
I wouldn't rely on your intuition, to be honest. I tend to compensate for lag and not notice it, even if it's there. But I definitely would prefer to play with less lag even if I don't realize the lag is there in the first place.

>>2174023
I love this video, especially when he talks shit about Ikaruga and Don-patch. The random homophobia kinda bums me out but w/e.

>>2174048
nah. i got it from myself (although i'm aware of that thread).

it's really easy to test in MAME using pause, and increment-pause. Press Shift+Pause to move 1 frame ahead. cna't remember because it's been a while, but mars matrix had some of the worst input lag i've seen in any shmup.

And before anyone says anything, my system/monitor/configuration/prerender/etc is fully capable of getting no input lag. as in, i input an aciton, and i see it happen in the very next turn. (tested using the increment-1-frame function on emulators)

>>2174039
>>2174060
well, take it from people who have actually tested it frame by frame, and not eye-balled it or had a 'feeling'.

mars matrix has tremendous input lag. and sadly that is a scientifically-proven FACT

>>2174229
>(tested using the increment-1-frame function on emulators)

You will always get no input lag if you use 1-frame-increments, because then the emulator just has to output 1 frame instead of building a steady supply of them to various output devices.

Also it is possible that the original hardware has input lag too; if that is the case then testing input lag on MAME is pissing in the wind.

>>2174249
try this.

pause.

hold left (let's say that your character is facing right, you want him to turn left)

**** press shift+pause (while continually holding left)

every time you have to press shift+pause to see your character move is how many frames of input lag is in the game.

It varies depending on the game and emulation.

If you're able to see the action on the very next frame after **** then your computer is capable of not having input lag.

Try it out on several different games.

Also, try it with your keyboard.

>Also it is possible that the original hardware has input lag too;
that's true, but i highly, highly doubt that Mars Matrix originally had input lag considering its hardware and developers

How do you get good at shmups? I played several different ones for hours and it still feels like I made no improvement. Half of the time I die randomly from basic shit that even beginners could probably avoid.

>>2174397
shoot more enemies
dodge more bullets

>>2174401
Tried that and I still die randomly

>>2174397
Learn to stream, learn to cross-stream, learn to soft stream, learn to read patterns, remember to concentrate in both hands instead of one, remember to move your eyes accordingly to the bullets, the speed and your hitbox. Don't panic and be patient.

>>2174397
ask more strangers for advice. that's how the best in the world got where they are today. forget about actually playing.

>>2174451
I already tried playing.
Also you'll never be the best

>>2174470
you'll never be the best you can be at anything if you expect others to have the answers you need. that failure attitude suits you well.

>>2174406
>getting hit
What did we just tell you not to do? Holy shit anon how are we supposed to help if you throw sound advice like that in the garbage.

>>2174485
Yeah anon. Why even bother interacting with other people when you can accomplish anything on your own?

>>2173912
I love this game like crazy.
I can't stand Giga Wing, but Mars Matrix is one of my favorite shoot-em-ups.

>>2174495
what do you know about accomplishing anything? you tried shmups for a few hours and decided to give up and ask for advice that won't help you because you just quit when it's hard. give me a break.

>>2174505
>a few hours

I probably have been playing different shmups for at least 40 hours and I notice no real improvement. I guess I'm a loser for asking for advice instead of wasting more hours.

>>2174141
it still feels like shit on shmupmame sadly. i think it takes off 1 frame? doesn't matter much though when it has like 4 or 5 to begin with. sucks because mars matrix fucking owns

>>2174069
so download current mame and the rollback set, and you can create any previous version of romsets you'd like

>>2174513
>I guess I'm a loser for asking for advice instead of wasting more hours.
yes. analyze your own performance and keep 'wasting' hours improving the areas you need. do you have eyes and a brain? then you can improve.

>>2174249
Hey, did you try >>2174276 yet?

Now do you believe me when i say that so-and-so has input lag?

>>2174528
>Improve by improving

How useful. Apparently there's zero depth to shmups. No strategies or techniques. Just press some buttons and win. Time to become a master.

>>2174541
do you live in some special world where improving doesn't involve figuring out techniques for yourself?

i'm done with you, scrub.

>>2174553
Bye. I'm going to become a master just like you because you told me the techinique of improving by improving.

>>2174532
>Now do you believe me when i say that so-and-so has input lag?

I know for a fact that so-and-so has input lag, what I'm telling you is that sometimes it is not MAME causing it, since the original hardware may already have input lag.

I don't give a fuck about input lag in mame, measure it on the original hardware (arcade board or console port), and then talk about how much input lag one particular game may have.

>>2174569
you sound like a lazy failure faggot. try suicide

>>2174579
Are you a master too?

>>2174579
He would need to google how to do it.

>>2174586
Another master

>>2174592
Well, I'm definitely good at shmups but it's because I actually play. The other guy knows.

>>2174595
Good? Why not a master? Are you just a loser like that other guy?

>>2174584
>>2174592

don't you have some n64 to be playing

>>2174596
>12 year old learns about 4chan
Get fucked

>>2174602
dank meme bro

>>2174447
You're a massive loser since you offered advice. Winners bury their head in the ground and learn everything on their own.

>>2174606
get a load of this faggot

>>2174607
No >>2174447 He's a faggot.

Most shmups are really easy it just takes a lot of credits

>>2174612
Fuck off loser.

>>2174597
>>2174602
>I'm so much more mature than you because I'm better than you at shmups.

>>2174606
I'm a loser for offering advice in a videogame? are you retarded? i though i was on /vr/ not /v/.
He probably didn't understood anything i wrote anyways so stop being a fag.

>>2174619
According to this guy you're a loser >>2174451

What are you doing with your life? This thread is real sad, kid. Time to stop baiting a chinese image site.

>>2174624

>>2174574
>You will always get no input lag if you use 1-frame-increments, because then the emulator just has to output 1 frame instead of building a steady supply of them to various output devices.

This is what you said.

I proved you wrong.

>I don't give a fuck about input lag in mame
Okay, tough guy.

1-2 frames of input delay on mame is a well known phenomenon, it wasn't even there in older versions of the emulator.

>>2174513
do what I do. go on youtube and find a video of somebody beating it.

videogames are fun to look but stressful to play. this was a problem when we were kids but the internet fixed it.

>Beginner asks for tips
>Responders say he's a loser and should kill himself

Looks like the shmup fanbase is as toxic as I heard.

>>2174397
It's mainly just practice/memorization. You'd be surprised by how quickly one can improve with time. When I started playing shmups I couldn't even 1cc Touhou 6. You said you tried several different games right? You should just pick one you really like and stick with it. Luckily a lot of techniques you use in one shmup can be used in another. Try different control methods as well. Some may prefer sticks over keyboards and vice versa. Watching videos can help too but copying exactly what they do is harder than it looks. If you're using MAME use savestates before very difficult parts and just keep retrying, this saves a bunch of time when practicing. Don't get discouraged when you die a lot, just keep trying and you'll eventually get that 1cc.

>>2174986
another point to add is many console games have level select and weapon select feature, perfect for practicing particularly hard parts

>>2174986
This, don't go with an elitist "anything below an 1cc is worthless" mentality. I suggest having a pinball player mentality instead, everyday you try improving your personal best beating one short term goal at a time.
Start small like perfecting the first stage with every shot type, without bombing, beating your hiscore, etc and keep improving from there.

>>2175007
you're contradicting yourself by putting your mentality above others.

it's the same with everything in life - practice makes perfect, and some ways of practicing will be more efficient for a particular person

>>2174994
I love the way dreamcast mars matrix handled this.
You start with 3 credits and you have to grind for cube items to unlock every subsequent credit, by the time you've finally scored enough to unlock Free Play you'll have gotten enough practice to not suck at the game anymore.
You can buy shot and deflect gauge upgrades at the shop to be used on an arrange mode, which effectively break the game and make it a lot easier.
There's an arrange mode A where enemy formations seem to have been remixed to accommodate for faster cube grinding and there's an arrange mode B that seems to keep the formations from the arcade mode.
You can also buy stages and bosses for practicing, artwork and 1cc replay videos.

It does a really good job at teaching and rewarding the player even while playing casually.

>>2175013
Good point, haha.
I'm just sharing my views though, I didn't mean to force them on anyone.

I just think it's silly, in the shmup communities if you have a perfect run up to the final boss but then fuck up and die there, because you failed a 1cc your run was worthless and you should feel bad or something. I say nuts to that, you should pat yourself in the back or something, you should celebrate every small victory.

Which has a worse fanbase:

fighting games or shmups?

>>2175026
WRPGs

>>2175026
was there ever a ``good'' fanbase ?
both are awful

>>2175031
Hmmm good point.

Fans really are the worst thing that can happen to something.

>>2175019
and this is why this is genius, because you can either spend a lot of time grinding the first stage OR you can grind the later stages instead, since you earn much more cubes from playing harder stages it's simply more efficient to get good at them

risk vs reward

>>2175019
I think the best system for this was radiant silvergun.

>>2175068
Every 1 hour of playtime equals 1 extra credit?

>>2175069
nah there was a levelling system where your ship gradually got stronger, but it always seemed that by the time you were strong enough you knew the fight well enough anyhow... game is amazing. Gotta replay it sometime

>>2175080
ah yeah each of your three weapons would level up independently

Mars Matrix does the exact same thing except you only have one weapon and you gain exp by collecting cubes. Cool stuff.

>>2175085
I've gotta give it a go. it's on dc right? how is the port

>>2175086
better than the arcade, they redrew the graphics at 480p

>>2174406
>randomly

Remember where you die and how

Do the exact opposite of what happened

>>2175080

But that system sucks because you get used to killing the enemies faster than you're supposed to

>>2175121
I found it ramped down the difficulty on the earlier stages at the perfect pace for getting to the later stages where I was stuck. Also combined with running the earlier parts so many times it's a breeze

>>2174397
Dodonpachi DOJ took 7 years to 1cc. A few hours arent gonna cut it, you need a looooooot of time to get really good at shmups.

>>2175349
thats fucking ridiculous, most people take only a year

>>2175357
Im not talking about myself, its how long it took from release to first global 1cc.

http://moon.ap.teacup.com/qwertyuiop/1244.html

>>2175367
for starters that's the ps2 port which came out a lot later
secondly im pretty sure that's counting the second loop + hibachi? that's usually what they mean when they say "clear all"
normal people should just stop at the boss of stage 5

also if you want an 1cc on a cave game you should try daifukkatsu, they give you an autobomb in it

>>2175369
>casual plebs just stop at the boss of stage 5

ftfy

>>2175369
yep, i checked, a normal 1cc only counts as stage 5 clear in the hi score table

so that guy didnt just 1cc he did the two loops plus true last boss

>>2175375
thats your opinion, i think memorizing the stupid bee locations and limiting yourself to three bombs is fucking bullshit
if you think that's good game design then power to you, i guess

>>2175381
keep telling yourself that. it's all the game design man

>>2175385
I think we're misunderstood, here:
1cc = stage 5 clear
1all = tlb clear

>>2175389
just yanking your dick dude

>this thread
Holy fuck, the STG community is pretty bad.

>>2173912
It's no Ikaruga.

>>2175497
this one's actually pretty civil

>>2174220
>goes on 4chan
>is annoyed by "faggot nancy queer"
Leave before everyone else hurts your sensibilities because people call each other fags regularly here.