/vr/ - Retro Games

>mm&bass
Play the snes version with a translation patch.
You'll get better music and more screen size.

>>2163324

That's a good idea. Thanks!

He's a lab assistant programmed to make some of his own decisions while he helps Doctor Light do his job.

He's remodeled to fight robots at the start of the first game because he's the only robot with the same complexity that the Doc has access to.

Considering that Protoman went rogue, we can assume that he's fairly intelligent and sellf-reliant for the decisions he makes.

>programmed by Dr. Light prior to each game to defeat Robot Masters
>Does he have any sense of morality

Household robots Rock and Roll were created by master robot designer, Dr. Light, and were enjoying their peaceful days. Then one day, the industrial robots all over the world went on a rampage and the world fell into chaos. Dr. Light quickly realized that mad scientist, Dr. Wily, was behind the nefarious deed but he didn't know what to do. Rock, having a strong sense of justice, volunteered to be converted into a fighting robot. Thus the super robot Megaman was born.

>How do the fires of justice burn in a heart that is all zeroes and ones?

You've stumped me there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5u845MT35Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOIjzmMZi_s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmTWSsPAvto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQxmAvM9T18

>>2163297
It's pretty much implied that the Robot Masters of the Classic series are capable of limited independent thought and decision making, while X and the Reploids have the full capability.
But in regards to how we see the characters and the limited dialogue they have, it's like they're human. Just, not. Don't forget that Rock himself volunteered to be converted into a super fighting robot in order to stop Dr.Wily.

MM&Bass is a good game. Similar to 8, but without some of the more gimmicky features of it.

is volnutt supposed to be a robot or a living boy with cybernetics? he looks more like a robot, but in the games it says that they raised him like a boy so i assumed he's able to eat and shit

>>2163330

That's what I'm saying! How did Rock have a "strong sense of justice", was it programmed into him or did it just develop? I would think a strong sense of justice would belong more to X since he's capable of emotion.

>>2163339
Everyone in MML is an incredibly advanced robot.

Which seems odd, but not that odd considering Megaman can swap out his arms and shit.

>>2163339

I think he's a cyborg, mostly human though.

>>2163351
>>2163353
it's also weird that they found him as a baby, so did all his robotic parts grow with him? Legend's is fucking weird

>>2163339
Robot. He was created as a robot to serve the Master and the inhabitants of Elysium.

Technically, though, >>2163351; but he could arguably be considered more of a robot than the rest of them. He's a "Purifier Unit", created as a bodyguard, rather than a "Carbon", created to replace humans.

>>2163351
>>2163360
>>2163361
Legends is a strange game. The people function as "humans" but they're advanced human-like robots with the ability to reproduce and grow, presumably also by eating organic matter.

Basically, they're humans, but they're robots.

>>2163372
At least Tron's cute.

>>2163347
It's a big part of many sci-fi stories to have Artificial Intelligences that grow and learn.
Sort of like how you'd teach a child the difference between right and wrong, Light keyed in the initial values, and Rock developed from there.

>>2163347
He is a special robot, but in terms of storytelling, I think you are just meant to think of him as having a mostly human brain... for no other reason than because it makes him more likable as a character. I don't know if the writers ever really put much thought into the how, just that he is a super-advanced robot and by virtue of that he behaves as he does.

>>2163372
no there is no organic matter anymore.

The grass is robotic, the pigs are robots, all the food, all the people, all the animals, all the plants, everything, robots. Artificial life has exceeded, surpassed, and taken the place of organic life as we know it.

Is this because of nanomachines or some other genius means of self reproduction? who knows. they never tell you. they never even explicitly tell you that everyone is a robot, but when you look at the character designs, and think about it, it all makes sense.

when Tron Bonne has 40 children, she actually really does have 40 kids.

>>2163390
maybe they would have explained it all in Legends 3

>>2163387
of course, from the start he's just a ripoff of Astroboy.

The only reason to build a robot that can pass for human is to have sex with it. Ergo, Dr. Light is a pedophile, QED.

>>2163392
TOO SOON

>>2163407
I'd say something about the robot that inspired Megaman being created as a replacement for a dead son, but that's just going to make things worse.

I'll refer you to pic related, OP. This is how.

>>2163351
>>2163360
>>2163372
The ZX series was actually leading up to this though, with humans and reploids both becoming so altered it was difficult to tell the difference.

>>2163415
>Inspired Megaman

Megaman was originally sup[posed to be soemthing much more awesome than even Astroboy. It was Rainbowman.

>>2163431
>He die fighting the BBEG in that battle after knocking off the tower and riding him down...
>not another thread about paladins FALLING.

Well played. I loled.

>>2163390
>TFW not a robot.

>How do the fires of justice burn in a heart that is all zeroes and ones?
Please post this exact post, with this exact phrasing, on /m/. You'll get 100+ replies, many very useful, probably within a day or so.

>>2163329

So then how is Mega Man X at all unique from OG Mega Man?

>>2164056
>>>/m/11925790

>>2164070
x can learn and grow and experience real emotions while things like original mega mans personality, motivations, etc. remain basically static throughout the entire series. x and the robots based on him also have a higher degree of personal agency/"free will" than the robots in the original series did

>>2163330
/vr/ guro thread? /vr/ guro thread!

>>2164113
This is what they say, but the translation is so terrible in the x games and plot is so spotty that you can't really tell anything about x. You have to read manga and shit to have any idea about the characters

>>2164159
x whines about violence more than mega man presumably to show you that he has a greater capacity to give a shit

i only played rock man back in the day. i didn't quite like any mega man game for some reason

What ever happened to that PC version of Mega Man that some guys were going to make?

It looked like they were doing well but last I heard from them was years ago.

>>2163386
Suprised no one has brought up this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLnyJcSiEFk

Sure its not canon but its awesome.
Its implied in some way Mega-Man is special but in general he and the robot master were programmed with AI but also programmed with the standard rules of robots until Wily reprogrammed him. Protoman is also a special case in that he is programmed not to harm humans but he is also capable of ignoring their orders, something I'm not sure even Mega-Man is capable of.

Megaman X and the Reploids based on him have a more advanced AI and are not programmed with any kind of moral restrictions thus, some go rogue and kill humans and other bots.

tl;dr: far to much thought on 8 Bit vidya games.

I thought the main difference between Dr Light bots and Reploids was that Dr Light bots can be reprogrammed. They might have individual AI and unique personalities but someone can make them evil.

Wiley could probably reprogram Rock to be evil too if he ever got his hands on him. Then I guess he would have a strong sense of ...hurting people.

Mega Man is a robot with a simulated personality. He can make decisions and have a sense of morality but not beyond his programming. If Dr. Light programmed him to think that stealing is evil and only that MM wouldn't think twice about blowing away a robot stealing medicine.

Or at least that's how it was originally, based on what I remember from 90's era Mega Man fansites and my World of Power MM2 novel, Mega Man gains free will during an accident just before MM2 (not really up to date on my Mega Man canon though). However, even with free will, I can't imagine MM having a very deep character compared to MMX. Just because he can say no to his programming (as can Protoman) doesn't make him sentient in any meaningful sense.

I wouldnt read too deep into it

Megaman X was a product of the 90s cyberpunk Xtreme future in peril fad going on

Like Battle Network was the product of the digital era with everyone going online

Why do you wonder about such useless questions, OP? It makes no sense, it's just a video game; you have fun with it, not wonder if robots have independent thought knowing that you cant know and that ultimately it doesn't matter.

After breaking the mood, here's my favourite song. It's both sad and happy, it reflects life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfsY4sZEBAk

My personal headcanon is that robot masters (including Megaman, Roll, etc.) have limited decision-making abilities, but are still essentially bound to the parameters of their programming.

For example, Bombman is programmed to blow stuff up. Bombman may be able to learn, and advance in his ability to blow stuff up; he might use new bomb technology to more efficiently fulfill his given purpose, but ultimately, he's the blow-stuff-up-guy and that's basically all he'll ever be. It's what he was built for, it's what he was programmed for. He's not going to have an epiphany one day where he realizes there's more to life than blowing stuff up.

Blast Hornet, on the other hand, is a reploid with free will. He CHOOSES to blow stuff up.

>>2163386
Why does Megaman have 2 noses in this?

>>2165795
Can't unsee it now damnit

>>2165742

I really like the Mega's take on Magnet Man's theme. It's probably my favorite song of theirs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vs4uHxqJJw

>>2163297
This is my own conjecture based on canon but not necessarily canon itself:

Megaman (classic series robots in general) feature advanced AI that allow them to make their own decisions within a certain range, giving the illusion of choice and completely free will. They act human, but ultimately they're just one complicated algorithm. They're semi-autonomous, but can only do what they were meant to. Barring damage or reprogramming, Megaman will never rob a bank, for example, because his programming wouldn't allow for it. The various personalities they demonstrate are ultimately the whims of their creators (to that end, I imagine that Rock and Roll are friendly, affectionate robots because Light is a lonely old man with few human friends, let alone family/children). To your point, I think Megaman's senses of justice and morality are simply an extension of Light's.

I don't perceive classic series robots in general as having the ability to grow/change. They can learn by way of incorporating new information, but not in a way that would alter their behavior or personality. I don't believe this because Light specifically states that X is the first robot capable of true independent thought, intellectual growth, and free will. X would not be relevant if robots before him had these features.

This is going into personal headcanon territory, but I rationalize Protoman and Bass as generally falling under the same principles, but that Protoman's flaws (being a prototype after all) allow for more independence than intended, something that both Light and Wily saw potential in and something each of them studied and pursued independently. Perhaps Bass--who is generally subject to the same limitations of classic series robots, but a bit harder to keep a leash on--is the product of some development in Wily's pursuit.

That all said, none of this really matters in the classic series itself unless you really need it to feed into the X saga and beyond (and/or love deepest lore).

>>2165742
Because it's fun to speculate? If you start with the "it doesn't matter" argument, it never ends. Why play Megaman games at all? Why play games? Why live?

I always thought of Magnet Man's theme as exceptionally bright and cheerful, even for Megaman. It's one of my favorites, too. Not sure where you get the "sad" vibe from, though.

>>2166000

I enjoy thinking about it because I like to put myself in the character's shoes when I play video games. In Mega Man's case, I like the headcanon you have there. Mega Man's basic programming is "defeat Robot Masters, take down Wily" but how he does it is up to him. The "what" is programmed for him but the "how" is his choice, based on the situations he has to face. The "why" never comes into play for Mega Man, and it doesn't need to.

I like seeing the classic series evolve in different ways in terms of robotics/AIs, eventually leading to X, Zero, Battle Network and even Legends way down the line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdXaBZXx-eM

Megaman music?

short version:

free will and sentience were seen as a bonus feature in the original megaman games. the decision to be 'heroic' was viewed as an advantage. but the robots in the original series did not make their own decisions; they merely did as they were programmed. blues/protoman wasn't assigned a role, so his actions are ambiguous. rock/megaman was programmed to be a hero, and his capabilities reflect that capacity.

free will and sentience were seen as a flaw in reploids. while the ability to debate and form opinions was an interesting novelty in X, but sigma's rebellion was attributed to a virus. like a software bug, but only because humans did not benefit from reploids making their own decisions.

>>216725

That's why I always thought Sigma got the worst deal of any character in the Mega Man universe.

He was driven rabid after trying to stop Zero. More or less taking the 'curse' into his own body by accident. He has no control over his actions and the least Zero could do was acknowledge he was responsible for Sigma's current state. If Sigma was somehow separated from the virus he'd have been horrified at what he had done.

I guess blaming him is just a Japanese thing. But he got fucked, /vr/

He got fucked. :(

>>2167308
the original sigma died a long time ago. the virus is just wearing his face

The virus is the evil goo from megaman 8, some sort of space goo from a space robot, that infects Wily's brain, it then has him finish his ultimate robot, and then takes that robot as it's new host.

All through the series, it's almost always the virus that's the true antagonist, just wearing different people's faces and mutating and causing more shit to happen.

Sigma and Copy X and Elpizo and Doppler and Wily and the Repliforce did nothing wrong.

I mean what kind of normal computer virus takes the form of purple floating mindrape mist?

>>2167356
See, that's even worse because the real Sigma gets blamed and branded a monster. Even when X and Zero learn the truth they always refer to him as the real Sigma and not some fucked up monster who literally stole his life.

>>2167356
The Sigma Virus is actually the incarnation of all the lazy, money-grubbing tendencies at Capcom, who would gladly run their IPs into the ground with terrible games made with no inspiration or imagination, just on the off-chance that they might offset the costs of churning out games that aren't fun and don't sell.

Like holy shit. They could have made even ONE sequel where the villain isn't the same dude as the first game. I get that Mega Man is bound by Asimov's laws and can't actually kill Dr. Wily, but X doesn't have that restriction. We could have had X games about ANYTHING but instead it's just sigma 8 fucking times in a row.

>>2167392
He wasn't the main villain in X8 though.

>>2167410
I seem to remember fighting him at the end of the game anyway

>>2167392
The real enemy is the disease called hate

qq

>>2167438
Well, he was but if you got the true ending then there's a SHOCKING PLOT TWIST and it was someone else pulling Sigma's strings.

Probably would have been much better if this was done early instead of having 6 games of filler in between though!

So has anyone thrown every classic Mega Man together into one giant game with however-many dozen selectable levels and every single weapon? Sounds like an idea waiting to happen.

>>2168152
But then nobody would use anything except Metal Blade.

>>2168164
What if we nerfed it

>>2167392
I bet you really hated all the Wily references/appearances in the X games. :) Cool "Capcom sucks" rant though, +1

>>2168152
>>2168209

Infeasible. Too grand in scope, and balancing it would be an insane undertaking. Plus, frankly, a game with 80+ stage&boss rounds would get a bit tiresome.

Does anybody now why i can't run the MM 9 & 10 roms in the Dolphin emulator? I've played several wii roms perfectly, but any version i've downloaded of these is either rejected by dolphin as not a valid iso, or has severe flaws in the video.

The Archie series basically had MM's programming being a general "Help Humanity" which allows him a wide variety of options in regards to how to do so

the masters had a very specific programming of DESTROY MEGAMAN. KILL MEGAMAN. DEVOUR MEGAMAN

>>2168403
>Archie
stopped reading. As you should have

>>2168407

there was a story time on /co/

>>2166000
>independence [is]something that both Light and Wily saw potential in and something each of them studied and pursued independently. Perhaps Bass--who is generally subject to the same limitations of classic series robots, but a bit harder to keep a leash on--is the product of some development in Wily's pursuit.

Allow me to expand on that. It doesn't initially make sense for Wily to have interest in developing robots that think for themselves--he builds robots to serve him. His interest in that possibility was part of a larger vision to transfer human consciousness into computer/robot AI--which would necessitate independence. So, as ever, Light's development of independent robots was intended to contribute something positive to the world, while Wily's was intended only to benefit himself: achieving immortality by way of becoming an AI entity... something X2, X5, and X6 suggest he accomplished.

>>2170852
I think Wily just wanted to build the perfect robot, which he envisioned as weapons, to prove his superiority to everyone else, or rather, mainly Dr. Light, his only real competition.

Rather than trying to extend his own life, he wanted to build the perfect unbeatable weapon/entity/robot, and leave it as proof that he was in some way superior to Light's genius.

You could say that the entire purpose of Zero being created was to kill Megaman and X

which is kind of ironic because they basically end up as gay robot lovers

>>2171052
The "must beat my rival" suffices in classic itself, but it doesn't feel like enough to support the creation of Zero and what culminates from that (even though, yes, rivalry as motivation is outright stated in X4). But if we were to go with that, I think life extension could still be part of it--after all, Light may have accomplished this, too (X6).

>>2171069
X6 and after are not really canon to the original plot

or rather at least inafune says that the Xs after X5 aren't really relevant to the timeline that leads up to MMZ and MMZX(?) and MML and are sort of like a branching alternate path

In MMZ Weil definitely only wants to be the guy who made the ultimate weapon that was the best at killing things and doesn't seem to have any other interests other than getting his robot back and setting it on a rampage to prove superiority

He does the same thing in MMX2 so it's plausible

but then it turns out the AI or "soul" was a bigger deal and he still loses to the technology inherited from Dr Light after all

(I believe Zero was repaired using reploid specs inherited from X's design, which is part of where his personality and decisions comes from, though that is pure speculation on my part)

>>2165641
>90's era Mega Man fansites

Speaking of which, anyone wanna share these?

I remember one where the members took the aliases of Robot masters, and then one of them actually died. was sad

>>2171076
Whether Inafune wants it to be or not, X6 exists, it's canon. And if you want to take his word as gospel, you should know that he dismissed the idea that Weil is Wily, so Weil's not even relevant to our conversation.

X's design doesn't have a set personality or decisions--X was designed to develop those on his own rather than be programmed, that was part of the point of X, so Zero can't "inherit personality and decisions." That said, I don't think Zero was intended to be fully independent and his conversion to a free-thinking Reploid (a Light concept) would be a huge blow to Wily's vision as well as a slap in the face.

>>2168323
I thought about the same thing, and came up with the following:

>Have various generic stages to select like the Arcade games, i.e. Water Works, Garbage Dump, City Streets
>Each stage has multiple bosses, not always confined to a single room
>For example, the Water Works would have an auto-scroll section a la Wave Man
>You'd be on Rush Jet, fighting Dive Man in the water, and Gyro Man from above, as they alternate attacks
>after defeating them, head into the dam itself, where you have Spark Man, Elec Man, and Dynamo Man all feeding off of the turbines (and each other) to be one big brawl, tagging in and out like the Weapons Archive fight

There's definitely ways to make it dynamic and interesting without being 100+ stages, but it would definitely take time and effort to do so.

>>2171076
There was an interview after Inafune left Capcom where he admitted that he wasn't really involved with the series after X4 and that X5 had a new team working on it. I think Inti Creates originally wanted to continue off of X5's ending in Mega Man Zero but changed things early in development so all that doesn't really matter much now anyway.

>>2171096
Indeed it would. That sounds like a Final Fight but with every enemy being unique. How'd the weapon system be handled? It'd be pretty cumbersome to sift through pages of weapons.

>>2171095
I think if Zero got his forehead smashed in by Sigma, and Cain fixed him up, and Cain was basing his technology around X's design at the time, then there is indeed a little of X in the Zero that we know

>>2171097
I was pretty sure that he abandoned ship at X5, and that was the last one he had anything to do with, and it does end on a pretty final note what with the climactic battle between X and Zero and Zero supposedly going into the cold sleep that MMZ starts with

>>2171110
That's all true. But then X6, X7, and X8 happened. You don't have to like them, you can pretend they don't count because Inafune wasn't at the helm, but they exist, they count, they're canon. It's just silly to argue they don't.

>>2171102
To be honest, that's where it kinda falls apart, to a point. Maybe have the pre-level be able to create your own load-out similar to the Wily stages of Wily Wars, but have an option/item to call in Eddie and Auto to swap your loadout mid-stage.

Perhaps limit it to a once-per-stage deal, and they're fairly susceptible to enemy fire (as I wouldn't completely get rid of minor enemies, just make them less prominent). More along the lines of "Mega can only hold so much data" rather than "Mega's a walking deity". Of course, for the Wily levels that can go out the window, and you'd be able to get upgrades to page through weapons (sorted by game by default). Perhaps have tabs instead of pages?

>>2171102
naw I think if anything the best way to do it would be to just put all of the classic megaman levels into one game, with the same bosses, same stages, and same weapons
you'd just have 6 pages of 8 weapons to pick from and maybe each boss would have multiple weaknesses

I wonder if you could stitch 6 megaman NES roms into one thing? would that work? jsut create a new stage select and weapon menus and stuff?

>>2171107
technology =/= personality. There is a little of X in Zero in terms of how he's built and programmed, but that's true of all Reploids. If what you're saying is true, all Reploids should have a little of X's personality and values in them, and they clearly don't.

Again, X was designed to develop his own personality freely, not have certain values or traits built-in. Again, that was the point of X. When you borrow from X's design, you're taking that ability, not X's worldview.

>>2171117
I agree that they're canon, I just don't think it makes any sense that they're the same canon as MMZ

I have to maintain that it's a split alternate timeline type thing

they're both canon, just not the same canon

>>2171120
You literally can't, as the games just don't have that much memory to do so. Maybe if you did something like SFxMM, but not right from the roms.

>>2171110
Found it, it was from a 2013 interview the Get Me Off the Moon guys did with Inafune.
>GMOTM: Okay, this one is actually from me [Ryan King]: In the English translation of Mega Man X5, all the Robot Masters names' were changed to be references to Guns N' Roses. So, "Axl The Red" being a reference to "Axle Rose", "Duff McWhalen" being a reference to "Duff McKagan", and "Grizzly Slash" being a reference to their former guitarist, "Slash". When you learned about this, did feel that the English translation sort of "butchered" your original vision, or were you moderately surprised/pleased that it was another music reference in a game chock-full of music references?

>KI: Honestly, the games that I were directly involved in went up until about X4. When it came to X5, it [the X series] was kind of handed over to a different team.

>>2171121
X doesn't have any essential personality in his design though, that's the whole point of him. He's a blank slate with the potential to be whoever he wants to be. I'm not saying Zero's somehow a partial copy of X's personality, more that he borrows some of the technology that allows X to have a personality in the first place, which is definitely what's going on with all the other reploids.

>>2171120
So it's just one giant remake but rolled into a single game. As said before, that'd just get tiresome.

>>2171118
Since a lot of classic weapons are similar to one enough, I suppose they could be lumped together in a way that lets you customize their output. Say, all Blade Weapons are put into one category, and you can select a Main weapon (that adheres to the way it was used in the original game), and "attach" other weapons that alter stats (making Shadow Man's weapon an "attach" increases speed, for example).

>>2171131
That's exactly what I've said, twice. In response to

>>2171076
>(I believe Zero was repaired using reploid specs inherited from X's design, which is part of where his personality and decisions comes from

Whoever said that WAS suggesting that Zero had a partial copy of X's personality, and I've been arguing against that. I'm not sure how you can read my rebuttals and interpret them as the exact opposite of what I said.

>>2171132
For plot, I would think the game would be after 10, before X, to kinda explain what happened between the two games. Long and the short of it, Wily modifies Roboenza, turns it into the Zero virus, and wants to give it a test run before slotting it in to his magnum opus, so he uses a backdoor to get it into all the old robot masters and they just go fucking BONKERS.

I do like the concept of the modified weapons, though, and it would be neat to see how each would work with each other.

I definitely agree with the thought that just stapling each of the games together and having an XBOX HUEG character select screen would be fucking boring as shit.

>>2171136
er no, what I was suggesting is that part of the reason Zero's own personality emerged was because he was modified from his original killing machine design when he was repaired using reploid technology which comes from X

his personality was not copied from him, but it came about because he had been given some of the same technology that's in X, which has the specific purpose of allowing a robot to form it's own identity

>>2171148
Well, we agree, then. It's common knowledge that all Reploids borrow from X's free-will designs, though, so it follows that Zero's modifications would, too. Perhaps where we differ is that I perceive Zero as originally never having free will and acquiring it through the method we've outlined. Others might maintain that he was originally built with similar free capabilities but it was overridden by the virus.

>>2168403
No one got your Casshern reference except me. Sorry duder. :(

>>2171089
Did he drop his weapon chip?

>>2172092
You two are really special guys!

>>2171128
Inafune disowns any game he doesn't think will make him look good. Besides, he didn't call most of the shots anyhow. Takes plenty of credit for stuff though.

>>2172103
Then produces a copycat game of the same franchise that gave him fame, right down to the character designs. Can't do anything original himself, so brazenly panders to the crowd that blindly herald him as the father of Megaman. Frankly he seems like a hack more and more lately.