/vr/ - Retro Games

native res + texture filtering using pete's opengl2 plugin does it for me

I've always thought that psx graphic looked bit too edgy.

But anon, I actually like low poly graphics.

>>2149447
It's not really low-poly that's the problem. I don't mind Virtua Fighter.

Rather it's early 3D era textures (since VF is untextured it gets around that) that are flat and low-detail that gives the PS1 its...je ne sais quoi that can be a turn-off in this day and age.

Ps1 looks great,im guessing your playing on a hdtv so it looks like shit? 240p on a crt or go home

Nah. In fact I think they work better for some games than their modern counterparts. The rough nature of the 3D gives it a really gritty feel which felt perfect for MGS1 and Silent Hill.

I'm trying to figure out how to use POPStarter on my PS2's HDD.
I got the USB mode working fine, but I can't get the HDD mode working.

Can anyone spell it out for a retard?

the wavy lava lampness has a campy, nostalgic feel and low poly looks weird without it

>>2149462

Like any anything, depends on the game. 1st generation 3D consoles leave a lot to be desired especially if you owned a decent PC during that time. I would say PS1 looks no uglier than Saturn or N64. Emulators help a lot imo if you really can't stomach it.

>>2149436

Yes and no.

On a CRT TV/monitor PS1 games look great. This is the PC port of RE2 at 480p. Sharp gorgeous backgrounds, nice character models. The models look way too good for Playstation.

Dreamcast, PS2, NGC were where 3D started to look really good. An upscaled PS2 game look almost like a modern game. There's modern games made at that quality today. PlayStation is a little rougher, a little less detailed. I still like it though. If it has good art style and detail like Silent Hill or Metal Gear Solid it can still hold up.

Those games are nice for comparisons, since they had sequels on later systems. Silent Hill 2/3 and MGS 2/3 look very good in HD. The Playstation games don't look nearly as good in HD.

I take them as just the graphics of that era. Not as good as later 3D games, but "disgust" is way too strong a word.

>>2149436
It's a non issue because I'm not some graphics obsessed cunt.

A lot of ps1/n64 games were stunningly beautiful, even with low poly counts and blurry textures. It was (and still is) all about art design.

Games don't need shaders and high res to look good. I figure most people on vr share that mindset.

At least 5th gen graphics had color, I'll take that over today's games which offer every shade of brown which computers can generate.

>>2149436
Yes, the trick is to squint really hard.

>>2149462
I actually like those too. I think the game with some the absolute worst textures is Die Hard Arcade, yet it seems so charming to me in the same way 8-bit and 16-bit pixel games do. I can't put my finger on it, maybe it's pure nostalgia, but I just love the pure simplicity of low res textures. At least if they aren't shit smeared like a bad N64 game.

>>2149541
>If it has good art style and detail like Silent Hill or Metal Gear Solid it can still hold up.
This. The longevity of the graphics probably depended on the developers more than with any other generation.

For 2D, yes. For 3D, it's really, really rough at first and I have a hard time with it. After an hour or two, I get used to it and it's fine again.

By the time people got used to making 3D games we already had some nice looking stuff on the PSX. It's those first baby steps games that haven't aged so well. FF7 vs FF9 for instance.

I just deal with it.

>>2149723
That's a pretty bad screenshot. I have Die Hard Arcade and it looks way better than that when I play it on a CRT with S-Video.

No, they looked like shit even back in the mid-90s.

>>2149541
That looks nice but then I remembered that game only renders about five objects per scene anyway so it can throw all the processing power it wants at high quality models.

>>2149925

This but I still say a lot of graphics "aged poorly" because at the time we didn't have much better to reference it against.

By the time we were getting a bit deep into PS2 it became painfully obvious how bad a lot of PS1 games look.

>>2149436
No, because N64 graphics gave me astigmatism. Everything I see is fucking blurry as hell.

>>2150024
Because the n64 is pure shit.
Mario 64 roms get compressed down to like 4mb

I thought the original kings field looked good after beating it last week, so I'd say yes.

>>2150029
Was it the Japanese part 1 or the American 1 which was actually part 2?
My hat is off to you either way, I always die in the starting area in those games.

>>2149436
It depends on the game. Some, like Vagrant Story, still look really damn good. All the 2D games still look great as well, obviously.

>>2150029
I replay some of the King's Field games and Shadow Tower every now and then. The awful-looking environments always bug me at first, but I stop noticing it after a few minutes. I'm not sure why, but I've always found it really easy to get immersed in those games.

>>2149436
Always, I've always hated the way Playstation games look. It was just an unhappy middle ground, and those fucking edgelord grungy textures in every game, gah.
>Some games still look good of course, but they're the exception...
>>2149541
You're forgetting the XFat, that thing was actually pretty beastly at times. It could run Half-Life 2 for fucks sake, and it did.

>>2150024

>4kb texture cache

Fucking why? It effectively nullified all the advantages of its video hardware. Instead of the wobbly pixelated graphics of the PS we got blurry, muddy, foggy graphics.

>>2149436
Graphics are neat and stuff, but gameplay is really what I care about.

And most of that stuff looks fine on a CRT.

>>2149462
>je ne sais quoi

Jenna said what?!

>>2150223
>CRT
lel

>>2150230
Oh man, fuck those guys and their stupid commercials.

It's weird. I was never bothered with PS1 era graphics even in 2009, but lately, it's been kind of hard. I think the only one that I can kind of stomach was Legend of Dragoon, even then, sometimes it's a bit EHHH.

>>2150235
Trinitron fo' life, foo'.

>>2150024
I think the filtering makes the N64 better at "realism" (by 5th gen standards of course), but I'll never understand why they didn't provide an option to disable it. It totally ruins most stylized games.

>>2149436
After this past generation, I learned not to give a fuck about graphics when it came to consoles and leave that shit to my PC. The only thing I do get fussy about is when series like Tekken have progressed into the next generation where the newer games are in fact updated versions with tighter mechanics and shit. Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil placed mechanics in a level where it works for the story instead of straight-forward games like Spyro or Crash but the important thing is that all of these games are super fun so the graphics themselves are not that important. Also, aesthetics are up there with mechanics...just saying.

>>2149436
By not being a little faggot.
Who cares how it looks as long as it plays good.
Sure it's nice if game looks pretty, but it's meaningless in the face of actual gameplay.

I'm more bothered by the poor animations in PS1 games than the graphics. Especially in games where you can strike the enemy and they don't react correctly at all.

MGS1's an exception, its animations are good.

Well I can put up with them, Low res textures are a problem though, I can mostly get around them with playing the native, or using a texture filter on a HD emulator.

>>2149710
90s-era 3D game had its share of brown and gritty shit. Take off your nostalgia goggles for a moment and actually take a look at most of the PS and N64 catalog.

>>2150213
>posting about hardware you don't understand
Pic related. Original ROM textures, just the game itself has been rendered in a higher resolution. Texture cache was only a problem for bad developers.

>>2150315
>but I'll never understand why they didn't provide an option to disable it
There always was an option. Developers just didn't want to use it because in 95% of cases it would be a step backwards.

stylized ps1 graphics could be pretty cool. realistic were shit but that's to be expected

>>2149436
Yes.

>>2151148
>original rom textures
bullshit, youre using the 2xsal filter

>>2151156
That's a rendering process. It's still the original texture.

>>2151156
Nope. Load up a real N64 and see for yourself. The textures in some places of Banjo Tooie are amazingly good. Too good, perhaps, considering the framerate is quite low.

Even if I was using a wacky filter, it would still be the original textures, so I don't get your complaint.

>>2151154
Hell yeah, wizard peak.

>>2151163
that picture is from the tooie wikia, all of them are using 2xsal filters
the cliff sides are not supposed to look all squarely like that, its meant to be blurry
it actually looks worse with 2xsal shit

>>2151163
>Even if I was using a wacky filter, it would still be the original textures
imo it looks WORSE with that shitty filter

im not beating a 30 hour game all over again just to post a picture to prove a point, grow up

Not even once have I ever found Spyro to look remotely bad on the PS1 and I still play it often to this day.

When playing PSX, I like to think about how the models and textures were made for each object in the game and take in the various styles each designer used to achieve their vision with limited capabilities of the system.

The first game I saw for the system was Final Fantasy VII, which I thought had pretty good models (In battle at least, though the others still were great despite being worse than Quake's models I had seen earlier). As time went on though, you could see how developers got much more familiar with the hardware and handled modelling with much greater efficiency, for example, later RPGs on the system.

Don't think of the blocky characters on one's screen as terrible eye gouging polygons, but rather use them as an avenue for learning just how limitations were overcome in that era.

Idk, I never found them disgusting, really.

Strictly speaking about the games on real hardware (on a CRT as God intended, of course), the PS1 actually fares better, and I say this as someone who was a total N64 fanboy back in the day. Sure, textures are pixellated and wobbly, and polygons jitter around somewhat in motion, but again, as long as you're not upscaling this shit to HD, this is all pretty manageable, and only downright ugly games are an eyesore.

The N64, meanwhile, does not fare as well because everything is blurred to shit. Not just the textures, but the entire image, as they made it so that all games are interpolated to a width of 640 pixels. The only games that do not suffer from this are those that run at a higher resolution.

>>2151172
ingame the sides of the mountain look blurry like this

At least they're not N64 graphics. The environments in N64 always seem completely void of detail, like looking at papercraft through vaseline goggles.

>>2151194
Oh, there's detail, alright. It's just hidden away by layers upon layers of filtering.

I think the PS1 has incredible graphics especially when you consider that its 1994 technology,dont forget back then everyone had a megadrive or snes so this was a massive leap.

I dont really get why people find early 3d games to be ugly ,the ps1 looks gorgeous on a CRT its a really sharp clear image with nice colours.

The ps2 on the other hand has always looked really bad to me i dont know if its the 480i resolution or what but everything looks washed out and a little blurry.

>>2151187
The N64 is blurry but your taking the mickey with that image.

>>2151171
>>2151172
It hardly looks any different with 2xSal on or off, just very slightly. The most thing that is affected is the HUD.

>>2151204

>>2151204
yeah its just how you've "original rom textures" then posted a filtered screenshot that triggered my autism

2xsal never helps, in my opinion

>>2151212
>youve said

>>2151184
>The N64, meanwhile, does not fare as well because everything is blurred to shit
Every PS1 game that isn't Crash or Spyro (and co) is pixelated to shit far worse than than any blurriness on N64. These games used lots of cartoony shading to get around that, just like how Wind Waker still looks good compared to other Gamecube games. Stop this cherry picking nonsense.

>>2151197
> It's just hidden away by layers upon layers of filtering.
Blaming the filtering is ridiculous, if the texture detail is low it's because the source resolution is low. Bad devs didn't know how to get good texture resolution on N64. It was harder to do it than on PSX where it was straightforward.

>>2151212
I think you're a little confused with your terminology here. 2xsai is a real-time filter thus it's part of the rendering engine and does not change the fact that it is using the unmodified textures. You could say it doesn't count because it's modifying the textures before they are seen, but that's what the entire rendering process does. There are all sorts of anti-aliasing and upscaling/downscaling filters being applied real-time.

I really don't mind and can see that every console/game from determined time has its limitations. When I'm playing old games like WE 2002 I don't even remember that the players have blocky heads or all faces looks the same, the same way I don't pay so much attention to occasional bugs and clipping when I play Gran Turismo, for example. The only game I can think now where the graphics actually are a problem and makes the game barely playable is 16 bits Bubsy and that mess that is its background, and the game isn't even 3D.

>>2151198
IIRC PS2 games often employ a deflickering filtering, precisely because most of them ran at 480i.

>>2151212
1) It IS the original ROM textures. The filter is being applied to the same source material.

2) The N64 filters the textures too, it's just a different filter. The original filter is only available on pixel-perfect N64 emulators.

3) There's not a damn texture filter in the world that makes textures look waaaaaaaaaay higher resolution so why does this matter?

>>2151220
w/e nerd, i just think it looks ugly

>>2151229
i dunno, who cares, im leaving this thread

>>2151229
>The original filter is only available on pixel-perfect N64 emulators

RetroArch's Mupen64Plus core recreates it using a shader. Admittedly, however, it still doesn't look the same even at native resolution, as HLE N64 emulation overall results in a much cleaner output.

>>2151230
That looks more like a dithering filter than anything.

>>2151243
what... the.. fuck

you need to get laid

>>2151246
>>>/v/
quality posting

>>2151248
so long, loser
your face looks like a dithering filter, asshole

Stop replying to him, guys. Don't even reply to insult.

>>2151282
>not playing thps on dreamcast

>>2151282
Now compare the soundtrack
Or controls

>>2151282
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woJ1GUmL0Xw

>>2151176
>>2151198
>>2151184
>these posts

Why are so simple assessments about hardware limitations and developers inexperience so hard to see on these boards? Why does people go on about games aging and being plain unwatchable? I tried to argue with these people and all I got was "get those goggles off" so I dismissed it as shitposting but people were actually serious because I witnessed hundreds of threads like those with the same answers out of the book like some never ending hell.

But then come you and almost everybody in this thread, apologizing the games from looking "bad" because they were trying the best they could to downscale assets or make them so they resembled concept art and just not seeing anything ugly about it. Is it cool to like 5th gen aesthetics now?

>>2151219
>cartoony shading to get around that

That's not how it works, they just have really high res textures and they know how to make it so you don't notice they're being reused. I can name a few more games with god-tier texture mapping, like MGS1. You can do a lot with 1 MB of VRAM.

Crash and Spyro also used mipmapping to help filling rate so that's even more memory being eaten up.

>>2151148
>>posting about hardware you don't understand

Cute. What they are doing is tiling many textures together to create the illusion of higher resolution assets. But guess what, that meant increasing memory reads (latency) and in that particular game the framerate tanked because of it. And to correct myself, it wasn't really a traditional cache, it was a explicit block that couldn't be updated when drawing a triangle. Oh and if you wanted to mip map then that space was cut in half.

>>2151282
Well, the PS1 version does have 76800 additional pixels.

>>2151294
>That's not how it works, they just have really high res textures
Both Spyro and Crash use combinations of high resolution textures on a few objects, and then no textures on others (just shading).

N64 games tend to have EVERYTHING textured but with lower resolution textures.

You can really only do the former technique with stylized cartoony games. More realistic looking environments require everything to be textured.

>Crash and Spyro also used mipmapping to help filling rate so that's even more memory being eaten up.
I thought Spyro just LOD'd distant textures into shading? That's not mip-mapping. PSX doesn't even have hardware support for mip-mapping, though you can just program texture swaps based on distance if that's what you mean.

>>2151302
>that meant increasing memory reads (latency)
Not if you kept memory defragmented
>in that particular game the framerate tanked because of it
Nah, Tooie's engine is just buggy. There are other N64 games do the same thing without the framerate problems of Tooie.
> it wasn't really a traditional cache, it was a explicit block that couldn't be updated when drawing a triangle
Correct, but it wasn't exactly an unusual hardware design at the time. The unreleased 3DO M2 was going to have the exact same system, just with 8KB texture cache instead I think.

Setting up texture cache this way is actually way faster than just loading them straight from VRAM like PSX, as long as your texture cache is sufficiently big and you don't get too much RAM latency, which happened on N64 due to cost cutting. But good RAM management helped a lot.

>>2151309
Yeah but goraud shading doesn't really qualify for solution to pixelation. Because there isn't anything to cause pixelation to begin with.

>I thought Spyro just LOD'd distant textures into shading?

Spyro works like this

>64x64 texture
>32x32 texture
>disable textures

I ran my tests and checked the VRAM so I know what I'm talking about.

>though you can just program texture swaps based on distance if that's what you mean.

And you are correct, that's exactly what they did. The same LOD shifting was also applied to models in both Crash, Spyro and Ape Escape as far as I know. Too bad that doesn't scale well on HD. If they were to discard all these optimizations they would've had tons of much more memory to work with and have prettier textures as a result. I can't really notice any pixelation on Crash 1,2,3 or CTR environments.

>>2151321
>Yeah but goraud shading doesn't really qualify for solution to pixelation. Because there isn't anything to cause pixelation to begin with.
High resolution textures = less pixelation
Shading = no pixelation

It's the way to go if you want to avoid those nasty pixels.

>Spyro works like this
That's some pretty interesting info. But I thought Spyro's textures were larger than 64x64? I mean that's the same resolution as most N64 textures. I imagined it would have been more like 128x128 or 128x64.

I can say that PSX developers were WAY more mindful of the console's limitations than N64 developers. N64 developers in the latter years treated the console like a low-spec PC instead of a console.

>>2151321
>If they were to discard all these optimizations
(cont)
There's a good reason those optimizations were there
1) Without the LOD/texture reduction, the PSX's texture fill wouldn't have been able to handle it
2) The more distant textures become, the more extreme the viewing angle. The more extreme the viewing angle, the greater the affine texture distortion. That's why on PSX it's better that distant polgyons are shaded instead of textured.

It's the primary reason PSX's games tend to lack the draw distance of N64 games. Without perspective correction it simply isn't good at draw distance + textures.

>>2151294

>>2151331
>Shading = no pixelation
>It's the way to go if you want to avoid those nasty pixels.

Yeah I get it but they only ever used it on Crash (and for rendering reasons) and some other characters, environments are still fully mapped except for some stuff like metal that didn't need textures to look good. There are no cartoony shaders involved here, that's what I'm saying.

>But I thought Spyro's textures were larger than 64x64?

They are, or at least some of them but they were splitted up in 64x64 batches, I suppose that's to help putting less stress on the system for each call.

>There's a good reason those optimizations were there

I know, that's why they're called optimizations.

>It's the primary reason PSX's games tend to lack the draw distance of N64 games. Without perspective correction it simply isn't good at draw distance + textures.

But MGS1 didn't have mipmapping and had like huge draw distance. Granted it ran like at 10fps worst when you looked with your first person view but it didn't seem all that ugly and it scales astoundingly well on HD. Just look at the site when you fight Raven's tank. It's like more than 100 feet long and it doesn't warp or anything.

>>2151294
I just have a special appreciation for low poly and early consumer 3D after learning to model for Quake 1. While there's still limits to how much detail you can put on a specific model for Quake, the skill of the artists have advanced considerably since the game was originally released, and all sorts of awesome and beautiful works have been created.

N64 games ccould actually look quite good when they employed hi-res, which unfortunately did not happen very often.

>>2151354
>Yeah I get it but they only ever used it on Crash
Crash is a less heavy user of shading than Spyro, but that's also because its rendering requirements are more tightly under wraps - the corridor based rendering which twists and turns ensures that the texture fill budget is well managed.

>They are, or at least some of them but they were splitted up in 64x64 batches
So that makes it quite similar to the more advanced N64 games then I guess.
>I suppose that's to help putting less stress on the system for each call.
It might even be to reduce affine mapping distortion. Larger polygons are more susceptible to it as well, so better to subdivide polygons and textures.

The texture size the PSX can potentially render the fastest is actually 32x32 - the size of its 2KB texture cache.

>But MGS1 didn't have mipmapping and had like huge draw distance
You can do it on PSX, but it's a lot more inefficient at it than N64. To avoid the affine errors the game can compensate for perspective in software (I believe Spyro 3 does this for textures very close to Spyro) or subdivde polygons into smaller pieces. But the N64 with its perspective correction could have one giant polygon in the distance where the PSX would need tons to make it look undistorted and the same.

>>2151408
>So that makes it quite similar to the more advanced N64 games then I guess.

That's what I also thought

>It might even be to reduce affine mapping distortion

Yeah you're right, that's the most definitely the reason, I didn't think of that. When you try and force affine mapping on Mario 64 you get all kinds of depravation going on because having perspective corrected textures meant they could map tiny textures on huge polygons and still have it look acceptable. (whoops you said the same thing later, sorry)

That Spyro thing also helps with hiding the mipmapping thing better, I think.

>The texture size the PSX can potentially render the fastest is actually 32x32 - the size of its 2KB texture cache.

I thought 32x32 meant 1024 bytes on 8bpp and 512 on 4bpp? (pretty sure Spyro uses the second one the most)

>To avoid the affine errors the game can compensate for perspective in software

Yeah but I don't think MGS1 did that, or maybe it did for far away stuff? I still have to look that up, but I assume doing software perspective correction up close takes really too much processing power so that's why close textures still look like they warp (and it didn't ever ruin my immersion or anything, like some other people say).

By the way, did you know the PC version of MGS1 can enable/disable affine perspective (which they're using in software mode) by going into cheat mode and fiddling with the later FN keys? It's a nice way to really get what it's doing.

>>2151439
>I thought 32x32 meant 1024 bytes on 8bpp and 512 on 4bpp? (pretty sure Spyro uses the second one the most)
Sorry, I meant 64x32. Derp.

>did you know the PC version of MGS1 can enable/disable affine perspective (which they're using in software mode) by going into cheat mode and fiddling with the later FN keys?
That's pretty cool. You could learn a lot about how the game renders with stuff like that.

Kind of reminds me of how a few N64 games like Turok 1 have a cheat where you can turn off the texture filtering.

the 64 was no different than the wii or even wii u
>inferior hardware
>no games
>only a handful of first party titles worth a damn
>fucked up controller

>>2151452

>>/v/

>>2151448
>Sorry, I meant 64x32.

That explains even more stuff, since a 64x64 4bpp could fill the texture cache and have it instamapped.

>Kind of reminds me of how a few N64 games like Turok 1 have a cheat where you can turn off the texture filtering.

Surely Nintendo didn't ever find out about that or they would have been pissed since they were the ones pushing for graphics at the expense of framerate. Speaking of which, the framerate did increase with filtering turned off right? I would gladly play that.

The PS1 version of Duke Nukem 3D did have a texture filtering option which basically got rid of dithered patterns on RGB by blurring framebuffer textures onto the screen and it looked kinda neat. Ape Escape on the other hand did try true bilinear interpolation on the pause screen, all in software. It took a while to fill the framebuffer with the interpolated version.

>>2151458
>>2151458
first of all it's >>>/v/
second of all i'm 100% correct, even those "good" multi plat games like thps couldn't have any songs becuase they decided to use garbage carts
I'm not saying all carts are garbage but the limit they put on themselves is why there's only a handful of titles for the entire console.

>>2151474
>That explains even more stuff, since a 64x64 4bpp could fill the texture cache and have it instamapped.
Yeah, but it's also worth pointing out that the PSX texture cache isn't on-die like the N64 texture cache (it's actually just a fragment of the VRAM with speed priority), so it isn't quite as fast to constantly re-update with new textures, which is mandatory on N64 anyway. From memory I think I read that its just best to put the texture in there that you want to repeat most often? But maybe smart developers got a lot more use out of it to optimize performance.

>Speaking of which, the framerate did increase with filtering turned off right?
I think the difference was fairly small. The original Turok doesn't really have much texture variety - most of the game engine's power is focused on the high-polygon enemies and animation, not to mention the game already had a pretty good framerate. But disabling texture filtering must obviously increase performance because Perfect Dark has select distant textures with filtering disabled surely for that reason.

N64's implementation of bilinear filtering was an economic one anyway - 3 samples instead of the usual 4, and hardware supported of course - so the performance hit was small compared to other features. You could technically use trilinear filtering too, but it needed mipmaps to be enabled so only works on 2KB textures. Probably rarely got used, since its more processing heavy than even 4 sample bilinear.

>Ape Escape on the other hand did try true bilinear interpolation on the pause screen
That's cool, didn't know that. Wonder if anything tried it in-game (even on selected stuff). The processing requirements for doing bilinear in software are pretty huge for the PSX.

I actually like them more now than I did back in the day.

I still don't like the N64 look with the blur. It's okay in an emulator without the blur but on a real console with the blur, it's as ugly as ever.

The only thing I remember that I did not like from PS1 graphics was that some polygons where jittery.

>graphics

It doesn't matter to me as long as the game is good.

>>2149436
I might be weird, but I love older graphics and am impressed by them at times. I think it's because games with older graphics are separated so much more from reality than a game like Grand Theft Auto 5, and that's how I prefer video games to be.

>being disgusted with lower poly non filtered graphics
if I ever do, kill me
I live for this shit man

LIVE FOR IT

Why do people keep posting screenshots taken from a n64 emulator? the games look nothing like that when running on real hardware.

As for PS1 games they are supposed to be displayed on a CRT at 240p with scanlines,so unless you take a photo of the tv the screenshots dont really represent what the game should look like.

Im starting to think that most of /vr/ has the average age of about 15 and play all their games on a HDTV

>>2152835
>the games look nothing like that when running on real hardware.
Nobody is claiming that it looks like that on real hardware.

>>2152835
The THPS3 shots in this thread were taken using a pixel-accurate plugin.

If you want one at 240p with scanlines, here you go.

>>2153698
Perfect.

The poly counts, resolution and textures are fine for me. I don't really have any trouble with the technical limitations on that part.

It's the wobbling, jittery vertices and shuddering texture mapping that really drives me absolutely mad though. You can't unsee it, and it makes everything look so much worse.

>>2149436
Graphics were never as important to me as gameplay but the leaps in fidelity always impressed me.

>>2153698
I should note how that shot was taken on a CRT monitor at full sharpness. Even then, there is some blur.

Kinda crazy to think about how most of us played N64 on shitty consumer level CRTs hooked up through composite or RF, where the blur would have been off the fucking charts.

>>2150796
I still have my copy of NiGHTS but in this day and age I would wonder if buying the PC version might be a better idea because the original looks so fuzzy.

I was disgusted with graphics of that console generation when it was happening.

The PS1/N64 generation was the end of good console gaming and the decline of gaming in general.

>>2149436
still holdin balance on the edge.

>>2149436
I thought I could handle everything in terms of graphics, but then I actually tried to play the original version of FF4 and realized how damn ugly everything from NES to early SNES looks.

Everything else is just fine.

I like PS1 graphics but the texture warping... Good god. It's almost like they're going to fly away at any second.

Honestly I think the near-filtering of the PS1 looked better than the linear filtering of the N64.

Blocky > Smudgy

>>2149436
Depends on the game, but yeah.
Only thing that really bugs me is the warping on PS1 textures. The jittery polys didn't bug me so much.

>>2154067
I'm entirely with you.

>>2153807
It was comparable to the move from mechanic and puppetry SFX to full on CGI fuckery in movies.

>>2151282

Meanwhile, at PC Gaming Master Race...

>>2154169
Nice try.

>>2154169
I was the only person I knew with thps for pc.
That shit had online play
Do you know how fucking rad it was to play thps2 online?

I don't care as long it is sharp. Nothing worse than blurry shit.

Never had an issue with them. Had more of an issue with Saturn than PS1

>>2150230
HEY
Thats the guy man from Rrrobocop. The guy that was snotting coke off those hookers breastt and got blown up.

>>2154482
You're thinking of Miguel Ferrer.

>>2153735
>You can't unsee it, and it makes everything look so much worse.
>>2154063
>It's almost like they're going to fly away at any second.

This is what I meant for overreacting, I mean seriously, I didn't give the slightest DAMN about the graphics because I just focused on them being 3D and nothing else.

I mean I didn't even notice Duke3D's orthogonal distorsions when looking up or down and when I did I thought "whoa, why does it do that" and never thought of it again because I was much more busy playing the game than questioning stuff I was too young to understand, and nothing ever bothered me. Not even seeing Duke standing at a 135° angle for fuck's sake.

The same can be said for the PS1, even if I noticed something off I just dismissed it as a way technology worked and I was entirely right. Why should graphics get in the way of me enjoying a fucking video game? It's like saying you weren't playing with toys because their limbs were fixed and they didn't make face expressions or something.

>>2154067
Without filtering you get both pixelation AND shimmering caused by aliasing...no thanks. With filtering you just get a bit of blur, that's all.

>>2152774
>>2152772

Yes brother

>>2153698

N64 games aren't supposed to have scanlines though

>>2154792
Yes they are? Were you already using HDTVs by the time N64 came out?

I don't like thick scanlines either but they're not there for show, it's a byproduct of the way CRT raster scanning worked.

From a pure visual standpoint (on consoles) it wasn't till Dreamcast till I felt 3D graphics looked good enough. PS/SS/N64 to DC was pretty dramatic in terms of visual fidelity.

I remember Soul Calibur's animation blew me away at the time because I hadn't seen anything like it on a system, even the PC which was my main gaming platform.

One of the few games that impressed me from the 5th gen era had to be MGS just because I didn't believe a full 3D environment with enough detail to make things out could be done on the Playstation.

>>2154802
I dont even have a hdtv i still use crt,cant be bothered to dig out my N64 but i dont recall seeing scanlines on my games,maybe i am mistaken.

>>2154824
That's because scan lines are not INSIDE the game, but you see them through the CRT, so whatever thing you feed that TV is going to have scan lines. You may just not notice them especially when the screen is too bright but they're there. When watching interlaced material it flickers for a reason, try to scroll your eyeballs from the top of the screen to the bottom and you'll eventually catch up with a row of black lines.

>>2151294
>Is it cool to like 5th gen aesthetics now?

Considering all the butt ugly indie games these days that go for a "retro" aesthetic 5th gen probably looks like an improvement for most people now.

>>2154837
I know you dumbass but considering i see no scanlines on the tv i assume its not outputting a 240p resolution ,im going to dig out my n64 right now to check

>>2154841
Did you even read what I said? 240p and 480i BOTH show black scan lines. Only in 240p case they're still, while on 480i they're constantly switching place every 1/50 or 1/60 of second.

>>2154845
So what resolution is the n64 outputting? i hooked it up and i can see scanlines but not very well defined so i assume its running 480i

>>2154853
N64 outputs whatever resolution the game tells it to output. You can't be sure about raw numbers because every game used their own resolution, but you can clearly see if it's progressive (240p) or interlaced (480i).

First one does not flicker, second one does. If they're not defined well enough you could try lowering the brightness, because as I previously said it's all in the monitor. 60hz scan lines are also more noticeable since they're less crammed.

>>2154853
The vast majority of N64 games run at 240p. If you want to know what 480i looks like, put in a Factor 5 game. A few games also use 480i for things like menus, such as the Bomber's Notebook in Majora's Mask or the various menu screens in Pokemon Stadium.

This thread has me wondering, how the fuck did anti-aliasing, and whatever blur method the 64 uses to get its results, manage to become so popular in this time period? First of all, I dislike the way it looks, but that is subjective. However, hardware was not very powerful in the late 90s yet they still forced AA into everything and never gave options to turn it off. AA can be the difference in doubling framerate in Quake III for example but the only fucking way to turn it off in this one game was writing "/r_texturemode GL_NEAREST" into an autoexec or into console every startup. That is much better than nothing, but there was absolutely no option to turn it off in the GUI, only an option to switch between 2x and 4x AA, but Quake isn't the only game to do this either. Unreal Tournament also does this shit. Only way to change it is in its clusterfuck of an UnrealTournament.ini under your driver or through the console again which the command is even more fucked up so I don't remember it. Only recently did developers start putting such a useful command into the GUI, but why the fuck didn't they in the first place? Just imagine a world right now when Nintendo 64 games ran at more than twenty frames persecond without having to sacrifice near as much like F-Zero X had to. So fucking ridiculous.

>>2154943
I think it was a combination of AA being a novel thing at the time, and prioritizing image quality over framerate. I know for a fact Nintendo's rationale was that the games should look as good as possible, primarily for marketing purposes, so as to demonstrate the superiority of their hardware over their competitors'.

After that gen, once it was clear image quality was not the end-all be-all selling point it was once thought to be, they toned down the use of AA.

Then the 7th gen rolled around and the same shit happened again, this time with HD (although as we all know, even then, many games did not even manage true 720p, and still lagged to shit).

Sure have.

>hey guys the PS1 still looks good right?
>i think so
>me too
>N64 SUCKS
>N64 WAS GOOD FUCK OFF
>HAHA BLURRY TEXTURES
>ps1 looks go-
>N64!

This thread sure looks good.

>>2154943
you are getting anti-aliasing and texture filtering confused

yes they both combat aliasing but are still separate things

N64 used both bilinear texture filtering and edge anti-aliasing, the first one is to get rid of the sharp edged pixels from textures and the second one is to get rid of the sharp edges from polygons

neither use a modern implementation, the texture filtering used 99% of the time on n64 is a less accurate bilinear filter, and the edge anti-aliasing is a fast full screen algorithm that only has a minor effect

>>2149436


I like the PS1 graphics. They had a grittyness and darkness to them that new consoles have yet to be able to simulate.

Better developers like Konami and CORE were successful at using the PS1's limitations to create just the perfect atmosphere for a lot of games that they have yet to be able to duplicate on a modern system

>>2151282
Shouldn't this picture list the emulators instead of the systems they're emulating? Might as well start talking about vector monitors while posting screenshots of Asteroids from MAME. It's like, that doesn't really work.

>>2154943

Your terms are all fucked up but i feel the same way man. I think texture filtering should be used very sparingly in old games. Such as on a background or something that you are not supposed to be looking at. Also when a ps1 rpg background image is filtered it just looks shittier.

As for Anti Aliasing, it is pretty pointless when you compare it to how many computing resources it sucks up. Especially when TV's weren't sharp as fuck. Any edge tearing artifacts would be buffed out a bit by that to begin with.

This is one of the reasons i prefer the ps1, it seems to have a lower amount of filtering than the 64. Plus more badass games.

>>2155014
I don't know man both seem to be visually accurate to what their hardware should render. PS1's screen is only stretched to look square because it probably uses some weird resolution like 640x224 as you can notice by looking at the pixel ratio.

>>2155014
Both screenshots are pixel-accurate representations of their respective hardware, albeit stretched for visibility and intended aspect ratio purposes.

>>2155049
The PS1 version ran at 512x240. The N64 version internally ran at 320x240 (with hardcoded letterboxing), but what is actually output to the TV after going through the VI interface is 640x240.

>>2154497
He may be overreacting, or maybe it's just something subjective. I noticed the wobbly textures back in the day when I was a kid and knew nothing about texture mapping and perspective correction. It looks really bad in some games, especially racing games where the camera is very close to the floor and textures near the screen border look like a Dali painting.

>>2151290
These days they'd just make all three versions look like the Playstation version.

>>2149436
Yes.

But have you successfully kept your brain from becoming disgusted with Kojima's writing?

>getting put off by old graphics

Graphics fags are disgusting.

>tfw growing up exactly simultaneously with video games
Gen 1: Birth, and all my parents were willing to buy during my earliest memories. Arcade machines and gen 2 systems on display at stores are amazing, magical miracles
Gen 2: 4 years old, finally get a VCS (Sears Tele-Games edition, Mom got a job there) Play with my dad on their bedroom TV. Holy shit, we're part of the Atari crowd. I can talk about it with other kids, trade and play games feeling so cool
Gen 3: 9 years uld - Unbelievably, the NES can play arcade perfect (to me) games at home as well as unbelievable, mind-blowing games like Zelda and Metroid that tax my little brain to the max. Zelda and Dragon warrior, not to mention the Nintendo Players guide cement my love of reading just as I'm able to easily read at that level.
Gen 4: 13 years old Genesis does what Nintendon't. Namely edgy shit like gutsplattering violence and partial nudity. Brutal ly emo shit too. Nei fucking died!
Gen 5: 18 years old - Thought I had about outgrown video games despite them having been a huge part of my entire life (Jaguar, CDi and 3DO seemed like lame novelties) but then the Playstation dropped. There were real, 3D worlds with compelling stories and extensive multimedia. Video games had reached young adulthood at exactly the same time I had and it felt like I was part of a goddamn revolution

and I was

So honestly it's probably nostalgia that lets me enjoy Playstation graphics. All I have to do is look at their jiggly triangles and my mind is transported back to my first shitty little apartment, full of friends and alcohol and marijuana paraphenalia, getting hot sex several times a week from different girls, going to work at Babbage's in the mall, being able to actually buy arcade machines and filling in the gaps in my console collection. What a time to be alive. How could I not love Playstation?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuiEKm5dDrY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZkMdi3XBhw

>>2149436
Not really. I can play and enjoy PSX games of course, but I rarely if ever think that the graphics are very good. At least the actual style and artistic choices made behind the graphics can be solid.

>>2157984
>Graphics fags are disgusting.

They're the reason why last gen was all about short 5-hour shooters and 7-hour action games with day-1 DLC because the very first thing they ever critique is not the content of the game but the graphics.

>>2158194
Honestly, the more photo-realistic the graphics try to be, the more I look for, and notice, flaws.

If a PS1 game is good, you get over the graphics pretty quick. It takes me about 10 minutes to acclimate to FF7's weird looking blockmen, for example.

>>2158136
>but I rarely if ever think that the graphics are very good
>At least the actual style and artistic choices made behind the graphics can be solid

No offense, but how could you be pleased if your standards for "good" are beyond the system's capabilities?

>>2150026
>Mario 64 roms get compressed down to like 4mb
Not compressed, that's its real size. 64Mbit = 4 Megabytes.

Similarly the RE2 N64 port was 512 Megabits = 64MB. Which is damn impressive.

>>2158194

I find it extremely funny that you said this when OP posted MGS.

>>2158196

I find the more photorealistic a game tries to appear, the worse it's graphics will age given time.

I mean, take a look at a lot of old games nobody bothers to make modern texture packs for vs the games they do try this with.

>>2151294

>I can name a few more games with god-tier texture mapping, like MGS1.

Fun fact: Kojima was told that he'd have to sacrifice texture resolution to make condensation when breathing in outside areas for MGS1. He went with it anyway. Just goes to show how well they managed to work around the limitations of the PS1.

Back in the day, when the sheer scale, variety and quality of FF7 was mindblowing to me (please don't compare it to other games of the time; I don't care.), I always thought the character models were pathetic. Why are the elbows so narrow and wrists so big?!
Don't even get me started on the abominations that are the models wearing dresses, aprons or suits. Terrible.

That said, in my current playthrough, I don't think they all look that bad. Cid, for example, has a fairly good model. At the resolution the PS1 outputs, there's often not much lost in them. And the battle models look great to me today.

>>2154964

Fucking babbies arguing over their first consoles.

Oh well. At least Master System fags are practically non-existent.

>>2158481
Chibi style. Look it up.
They pretty much tried to mimic the style of the older FF games' overworld character sprites.

>>2158396
>64Mbit = 4 Megabytes.

Just divide by 8, dude.

Also, the data is still technically compressed. As in any N64 game for that matter.

>>2158521
It would have been a lot less confusing if the FMVs didn't switch arbitrarily between chibi and realistic modes.

>>2158130
What are you up to now?

>>2158709
I'm right here posting on /vr/ obviously.

As far as my lifestyle goes, much like video games I spent the 2000s pretty stagnated in a mostly boring version of full-blown adulthood (with steadily increasing online content) and then in the 2010s it's been >>2156961

I can't really speculate on what this might suggest about the state of the video game industry. Maybe the fact that things have finally progressed to a point where small, indie developers can see their simple games recognized and distributed based on merit across the emerging mono-platform is kind of like a new baby or maybe I'm just reaching.

>>2149541
how does the DC version of RE2 compare to the PC version?

>>2153735
what game?

>>2151284
>playing THPS3 on Dreamcast

Try again.

>>2149436

Nope, though tbh I've been disgusted with PS1 graphics since it first came out.

>>2158492

hello?

>>2162341

Don't. Even. Try.

>console released 20 years ago
>idiotic kids judging its quality by today standards
>some playing on emulator with stretched polygons/pixels, filters and a load of crap

It is as retarded, pleb-ish and stupid as driving a 1950s rolls royce and complaining it lacks the technology of the modern family van you usually drive and demanding it to have its engine, chassis, etc all changed to modern standard parts.

>>2149436
yes, i fucking love wipeout games on ps1 to this day.

other games are ok too.