/vr/ - Retro Games

Long swords I guess, since this is being considered in the scope of both games. Long swords and short swords have the widest range of choices in BG2.

I mean, you can put Carsomyr on Keldorn instead, who's worth taking if you can fix his Dex score. But you don't really need the super weapons to beat the game on Core Rules difficulty. It'll make Throne of Bhaal easier, though, since you can further upgrade those weapons.

Get Bastard Swords so you can use the Purifier

What about axes?

Some people complain that Cavalier lacks ranged option beside a throwing axe, though I myself don't recking it's needed at all.

I'm not going to do a solo run, and with 19 constitution cavalier as main tank I doubt I will have to cheese fight with ranged. Especially that killing drizzt is out of the question.

Long Swords actually aren't a great idea. There aren't that many great ones. Or any, really.

Bastard swords is a better choice in the long run.

Maces have the mace of disruption in BG 2, which kills undead automatically.

Flails has the flail of ages.

Warhammers duh.

Nice thing about Paladin is that you can spread the points around since you can't master, anyway.

>>2088002
>Crom Faeyr
It serves better as an off-hand weapon on two-weapon fighters IMHO because it doesn't have a great magic bonus though the damage and the executes are great.

Suggestions:
Flails for Flail of Ages in BG2, one of the best weapons in the game by far.
Axes - the Axe of Bala isn't bad in BG1 albeit you get it late; then in BG2 you get a very good axe available from Copper Coronet, and in ToB they shine again. That, and not too many Good characters in the game specialize in Axes.

In BG1 your options are very limited; just get Long Swords for Varscona and give the Spider's Bane to Minsc or Ajantis or whoever. So start with Long Sword proficiency definitely.
Bastard Swords give you access to Purifier in BG2; there actually is a bunch of good bastards added to ToB (namely the early levels of the Watcher's Keep) - look out for both Purifier and Foebane there.

You're kinda gimping yourself by BG2 because sword & board is the least efficient style by far (well, okay, one-handed weapon sucks too) in the late game but the game isn't that hard so it's not a problem and a shield is nice in BG1.

So to sum it up start with Long Swords and then branch off into the other melee weapons, prefer Flails and Axes in that regard, leave either Flails or Hammers to your party Cleric (Ashideena is a perfect item for Branwen or Yeslick). Also, if I'm not mistaken, Thrown Axes will be the only ranged weapon you can specialize in, which isn't bad at all; there are a bunch of magical thrown axes that return to hand in both games and I'm in love with BG2's Axes in the early game (Azuredge, Rockfire), they're particularly handy for killing off trolls.

>>2088053
>give the Spider's Bane to Minsc or Ajantis...

He is basically the only good thing about having a forced good character in BG1 - second Paladin.

Yes, I fucking mad.
Best priest in game is evil, best mage in game is evil, best tank is evil. Enters BG:EE, and evil party also gets half-orc antipaladin who hits like train.

It's like thre game tells you to make evil party.

>>2088049
>Bastard swords is a better choice in the long run.
Not much.
BG1 for melee characters is a race to magic weapons and the earliest you can get is Varscona, which happens to be one of the best weapons in the game anyway. The only good Bastard Sword in BG1 is that +1 one with +3 against lycanthropes but that won't come into play aside from TotSC. By BG2 OP will have a lot more skill points he can put into BG2 weapons. And in BG2, Bastards don't get paritcularly good either until you find Purifier and Foebane (again, Watcher's Keep) while Long Swords offer you Daystar, Adjatha, Blade of Roses, Namarra, Ras +2 (the ally it summons is a great bait against physical damage enemies as its immune to physical damage). Granted, none of those weapons are *spectacular*, but they all offer pretty good options and can be fun to mix and match. If you somehow don't find a good weapon by Underdark then the drows drop Adamantium Long Swords +3 which will last you through that place. Then in ToB, you have the late game option of Angurvadal.

Meanwhile Bastard Swords in BG2 of any good quality only appear in Underdark or Watcher's Keep. Granted, you can get Foebane very early into the game (1st level of Watcher's Keep isn't a problem), but OP should be happy with spending his points into Bastards later.

Oh, Katanas are worth a mention in BG2 since you can get Celestial Fury relatively early, but make sure you aren't going to get someone else who will do better with them, such as Valygar. If you won't, Celestial Fury is great.

>>2088067
>BG1 for melee characters is a race to magic weapons and the earliest you can get is Varscona

Isn't Ashi-something, that +2 hammer, faster to get? Especially with Paladin as main char?
*cought* turn undead *cought*

>>2088065
>best priest

Viconia has shit CON. Absolutely hate her and using her since she can't play the important cleric role of offtank.

>>2088067
Celestial Fury is the best general one handed weapon in the game against enemies that can be hit by +3 weapons. Basically, the choice of putting points into Katanas revolves around this weapon since it is the only good one.

>>2088072
There's that CON belt in BG2, though. It jumps you up to 18 for 8 hours.

>>2088065
>Best priest in game is evil
Assuming you mean BG1? Viconia shrugs off her own healing spells sometimes, has pittance for Strength and Constitution, and has very average wisdom. In BG1 she's only outstanding making use of her huge Dex to spam Sling at people. In BG2 she does become much better, but I think objectively Anomen is better because he has more HP, has way better physical stats, can specialize in weapons (or even achieve grandmastery with them if you care about that; if you play vanilla BG2 without fixpacks you do not), the good resolution to his quest boosts his Wisdom up greatly too. Both Anomen and Jaheira make for way better tanks and are more versatile; Viconia feels more supportish until you give her a ton of stuff and synergize her innate magic resist. Also Aerie as a cleric fulfills a niche Viconia can't match (comboing Cleric and Mage buffs. Righteous Magic + DUHMx2 + Stoneskin + Protection Against Magic Weapons = yikes).
>best mage in game is evil
No contest in BG1. In BG2, difficult to argue against, but let me try anyway. In BG2 you might argue a PC Wild Mage or a Sorcerer is better. Some people might prefer to have a mage that can use the Amulet of Power due to its useful intrinsics. Some people might prefer travelling with Nalia or Imoen in BG2 because she is also a single-classed mage that also fulfills all your thieving needs (Nalia needs more potion of thievery help but that's not a problem, and she gets a really fucking good ring in return).
>best tank is evil.
In BG1 Kagain and Montaron (heavily underrated in that role; has great dex, can wear fullplate and gets halfling saving throws) are great but they don't outstrip Khalid or Ajantis *that* much. In BG2, Korgan is great, but Keldorn gets the crazy-ass Inquisitor powers and both Jaheira and Anomen can self-buff. Korgan can't pull off the Cloak of Sewers (Rat form) -> Blade Barrier cheese, for instance. Sarevok only becomes available in ToB, too.

>>2088072
>Celestial Fury is the best general one handed weapon in the game against enemies that can be hit by +3 weapons. Basically, the choice of putting points into Katanas revolves around this weapon since it is the only good one.

Unless you are another faggot who makes Kensai/Mage JEDI KNIGHT. Seriously, thank You for fucking pointing it out. BG Scene needs more people like You.

>>2088080
First time I played BG 2 I was 15 and had a Dark Elf Fighter who used a Katana because it was badass, just like Sephiroth! True story.

>>2088072
>Viconia has shit CON. Absolutely hate her and using her since she can't play the important cleric role of offtank.

Yes she can. Get the aforementioned belt that gives 18 CON. Give her a strength boost in any form; the lowly spell that boosts it to 18/50 is just fine. 19 DEX gives a lot of AC that's useful in the early-mid stage. Later on a Cleric can conjure you plenty of fucking tanks and Viconia still has the same goodies all clerics do - Righteous Magic, Harm, Blade Barrier, Armor of Faith, etc. while boasting huge magic resistance. About the only problem she'll have is that as a single classed cleric her THAC0 will be shit.

I mean, I've used Aerie as a tank before. I've seen shit like Aerie soloing Kangaxx in melee. AC stops being relevant by mid-late game but Protection from Magic Weapons makes you a god for just long enough to win the encounter.

>>2088072
>Celestial Fury is the best general one handed weapon in the game against enemies that can be hit by +3 weapons. Basically, the choice of putting points into Katanas revolves around this weapon since it is the only good one.
Hindo's Bane in ToB wants a word with you -- though that's mostly an off-hand weapon, I feel.

>>2088079
>No contest in BG1. In BG2, difficult to argue against, but let me try anyway. In BG2 you might argue a PC Wild Mage or a Sorcerer is better.

Aeons long debate.

Most people goes for Sorcerer, as Primo: charisma casting rules are not implemented, and Secundo: Sorc becomes powerfull early on.

Wild Magic is more harmfull than helpful on early levels, but yeah: Once you get enough level and items, a Wild Mage basically casts three offensive spells in one.

Also in BG:EE Neera is basically the only romance, and the only alternative for Edwin in good parties.

>>2088086
That's all Baldur's Gate 2. I would take Branwen over Viconia every single time in BG 1.

>>2088102
Ah right, 100% true; I keep getting confused with all those jumps between games.
And I'd still take Yeslick over Branwen, too.

Sorcerer is really strong. I don't use it out of principle, though, as it isn't a real AD&D class; its 3e nonsense. As a note, EE introduced an evil Sorcerer with godlike stats. The guy complaining that evil got all the good NPCs forgot that one.

>>2088105
>The guy complaining that evil got all the good NPCs forgot that one.
meh, aside from Cernd there aren't any shitty NPCs in BG2 and Cernd still has 18 wisdom at least.

>>2088104
Its confusing because OP said he's playing both, so people are giving long term advice. If I were playing an evil party in BG 2 I would include Viconia, unless my PC is a cleric. Stats don't really matter as much in that one.

What is it with BG 2 and poorly optimized human thief-mages? Thank God for Jan Jansen.

OP here.

After reading your responses, I'll probably go with Bastard swords.

In BG2 It will be useful for Purifier as anon from >>2088025 mentioned. As far as BG:EE goes - I remembered the fucking werewolf infested ship, having Kondar with proficiency will make it easy modo.

Apart from that: What companions would You recomend? I plan doing BG:EE with:

-Myself
-Ajantis (2x paladin part is almost broken)
-Minsc
-Neera (No school lockdown, not evil)
-Branwen
-Imoen

One slot emplty. As I'm a fucking Paladin I basically need neutral / good chars.
HALP PLS.

>>2088130
That's a full party, bro.

>>2088130
You can only take 6, unless EE changed this. I'm also not sure if you still need to take Dynaheir with Minsc, which would sort of break your party unless you just murder Dynaheir after completing their quest.

>>2088130
>One slot empty

Disregard that, I suck cocks.
Have a wallpaper as an apology.

>>2088117
>What is it with BG 2 and poorly optimized human thief-mages? Thank God for Jan Jansen.
What's wrong with them?
You either want a Thief for the HLAs or you want him just for your basic lockpicking and trapfinding.
Imoen and Nalia can do all of the latter, you pick them mostly for spellcasting and the thieving skills are just there because no one else would take them.
They're both pretty good characters and better mages than Jan.
>>2088130
Coran can replace Imoen later on if you want a more efficient fighter (particularly archer). You can also dual class Imoen into a mage, do away with Neera altogether, and hire anyone you feel like (there's no point, IMHO, to playing a less-than-full party in BG1 unless for a challenge because the XP cap is disproportionate to the amount of XP laying around).

IMHO, Kivan > Minsc. You can hire Kivan immediately after Candlekeep by just going to High Hedge. He has the coolest portrait in the game and is arguably more useful than Minsc because he's primarily an archer and those rock BG1. You aren't going to save Dynaheir - or keep her alive for long - might as well ditch Minsc too, unless you are a huge fan of him. Both Minsc and Kivan are fine choices.

I'd keep Branwen until you find Yeslick because dwarven saving throws are great and every party needs a dorf.

Aside from that it's a fine party, no real issues, just things I myself would do differently because they suit me more; they might not suit you.

>>2088135
>unless you just murder Dynaheir after completing their quest.

This is exactly what I'm planning to do.

Also: did ANYONE ever used Xzar and Montaron?

>>2088141
Imoen and Nalia don't have high enough thief skills to not fail regularly. It is annoying as hell.

>>2088145
They're not awful, there's just nothing spectacular about them. Montaron's Fighter/Thief combo is unique to the game, I think. Most BG1 characters are serviceable, aside from like, Quayle or Tiax. Others have interesting unique items or abnormal stats. I don't think anyone in your projected party has any of that (though that doesn't necessarily make them better or worse).

>>2088145
>Also: did ANYONE ever used Xzar and Montaron?
Xzar is a perfectly fine mage. When I play evil I like to run double-mage team compositions and synergize them in different ways (it's basically that one of them goes crowd control and the other goes damage, most of the time). He's overshadowed by Edwin but together they make a good team. Same with Edwin/Xan BTW, but Xzar's personality is more fun, I guess.

Montaron is a beast. Fighter/Thief multiclass is one of the best ways to have a thief (can pick locks and find traps? Check. Can wear heavy armor for a tough battle? Check. Can sneak up to a mage and instakill him? Check. Very versatile.). Montaron himself, as a halfling, has huge saving throw bonuses, making him a very underrated choice for a party tank (especially given his great physical stats). About the only weakness he has is that at level 1 he has stuff put into sneak instead of lockpicking and such but Thieves advance fast so it's not a big deal. Also his strength could be better and he contests for Gauntlets of Ogre Power with Kagain; fortunately, he can use Fighter-only Strength potions whenever it's important. I like either him or dual-classed Shar-Teel in the thief role for evil parties.

>>2088146
ToB introduces potion bags and there are plenty of potions that boost those skills. With Imoen I hardly ever have trouble with traps and locks for most of the game, and when I do, a potion lasting whopping 3 hours is going to do just fine.

>>2088158
>Also his strength could be better and he contests for Gauntlets of Ogre Power with Kagain
Scratch that; Kagain will obviously want Gauntlets of Dexterity and I'm a dumbo.

>>2088158
>Can sneak up to a mage and instakill him? Check.

Actually, in BG:EE this isn't necessary. With Boots of Speed, Cavaliers basically instagibs every caster in game before the first incantation is finished.

>>2088171
I'm grumpy in general about how BG1EE says fuck you and comes with BG2 mechanics that aren't balanced for BG1 at all so I mostly write from a vanilla BG1 angle, but yeah, I'm merely noting that Montaron's Fighter THAC0 makes him decent as a backstabber. Just a nice option to have.

>>2088176

Well, BG1 Was hardly balanced in the first place. Standard effect of bringing pen&paper rules to a cRPG. BG:EE just made it worse, no same man will blame you for raging on it.

>>2088210
It was at least mostly balanced internally, as in there was a proper balance of magic weapons and NPCs had a lot of cool niches.

Now they release a shitload of content involving special snowflake NPCs and broken items like The Stupefier and then they give any new player the option to screw himself over by trying to play Kensai in BG1 or completely trivialize the game if he by chance is to pick Totemic Druid. Terrible.

>>2088237
>and then they give any new player the option to screw himself over by trying to play Kensai in BG1

Serves right all the faggots who want to make BESTEST KLASS EVAR in BG1.

>>2088250
Kensai on its own is a fine class in BG2. Lack of armor forces a very distinctive playstyle, reminiscent of the Stalker or Blade, but most newcomers to the game won't immediately try for a dual-class as it's tough to figure out. Kensai really only gets broken when dual-classed, but dual-classing as a whole is pretty broken - Berserker/Cleric is also pretty goddamn strong, for one thing.

Giving you the option of making such a shitty character and pretending that no armor and no missile weapons for the entire game is going to lead you anywhere shouldn't be allowed if it was fine in the base game.

>>2088145
>unless you just murder Dynaheir
>This is exactly what I'm planning to do
>paladin
kek

>>2088289
No one can blame you if she blows herself up with a fireball or gets caught by the gnolls and hacked to pieces.

>>2088331
or you can just, you know, leave her in some house and kick her from the party
the convo won't start and you can keep minsc

>>2088002
im currently rolling aswell with a paladin cav.

Im at ballers gate right now with these party members: Immoen, Minsc, Brawnen, Neera and the Monkfucker Rasad

It's my first time playing BG and I'm at Nashkel, just kind of picking up party members as I go along. No fucking clue what I'm doing.

Everyone says that you kind of fuck yourself over if you don't grab all your party members early enough to level them up though, should I just read up and figure out who I want or just go do whatever and grab members as I go? I'm actually having a bit of trouble with the game as is. Playing melee.

>>2089280
Dude just pull new members trough durlags and they get to level 6

>>2089280
>I'm actually having a bit of trouble with the game as is. Playing melee.

There's your problem: BG1 is kite and spam ranged/backstab.

But for real, you have two options:

1) one is look at your current set-up (class/alignment), read through various guides and canvas opinions in this thread to find what's missing and what will compliment your party

2) decide if you're having fun exploring with your current set-up and, if you are, play the damn game, princess. Trek through dungeons, stab things, and stop worrying about if you're fucking well "optimized" or not. Learn about the game by experiencing it.

And don't give me that, "b-but muh precious time!" You've got time to be on 4chan, you've got time to run through a bunch of knobgoblins.

You're welcome.

>>2089280
>or just go do whatever and grab members as I go?

Just to let You know: One you'll take Minsc or Kivan into party, You need to do their own quests soon (10-15 days), otherwise they will leave You.

>>2089280
Although sometimes if you wait to get a mage, they'll start with different, possibly more powerful spells.

>>2088145

i played a half-orc evil fighter and rocked xzar, montaron, viconia, edwin.

>>2089280
>Everyone says that you kind of fuck yourself over if you don't grab all your party members early enough to level them up though

Wrong. This is the opposite of true. Best is to play with half a party until they get a couple of levels (3ish), then fill out. A full party of level 1s means a ton of people to worry about getting one shotted by kobold archers.

Also melee is the weakest strategy in BG 1, though having a melee main is fine, assuming you've got support from your other characters. Use summons to divert attention, clerics to heal and buff, and the like.

>>2089771
I should probably explain that a bit further. XP is split. 6 character party means XP is split 6 ways. It makes getting the first couple levels really slow, and those are the most important ones.

So, with party consisting of:
Paladin MC, Ajantis, Branwell, Neesa and Imoen, should I go with Kivan?

Everyone is still on first level (beside Ajantis who starts at 2nd), And I don't plan on taking Kivan before level 2-3, though I don't know If I'll manage to clear bandit camp before his retarded time limit ends. And If I take him in on later levels, I'm afraid he will lack behind the whole party.

Honestly the fucking retard who puts such time limit on npc's should get shot.

>>2089771

it's a little bit cheesey, but if you grab a scroll (or potion) of petrification protection, you can just go solo-kill the basilisks near beregost to basically instantly level up several times. then go find your party members everyone will be levels 4-5 depending on how far along it got you.

>>2089859

Or go to the location with the entrance to Nashkel Mines and repeatedly rest with quicksave / quickload to farm winter wolves.

This gives you shitloads of money and good xp.

>>2089852
>And I don't plan on taking Kivan before level 2-3, though I don't know If I'll manage to clear bandit camp before his retarded time limit ends. And If I take him in on later levels, I'm afraid he will lack behind the whole party.
Kivan doesn't impose a time limit on you. Or at least, none that I've ever heard of - I tend to spend a ton of time goofing around before actually getting on to do stuff, and Kivan never once complained. Where does that info come from?

Minsc does have a time limit because you have to go to Gnoll Stronghold with him.

Also Kivan starts at 2nd level. His HP at level 2 isn't very impressive but a level means less THAC0 means another edge. He'll wreck.

Also BG stores different 2-3 versions of each NPC for when you join them the first time. If you find Kivan at level 4 or 5, he'll adjust accordingly, so no worries.

>>2089889
>Where does that info come from?
And I'm answering my own question here. It seems to be one of the massively retarded BG1EE additions.

>>2089897

This.
In BG You had to talk to him on purpose while in party to start the timer, so people only triggered it by accident.

But in EE it got "fixed".

>>2089373
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm whining. I love the game so far, but I don't wanna fall into the roll/reroll cycle and get burnt out scumming through the first 4 hours with shit builds before I actually get to the meat of the fucking thing. It's a problem I have with all WRPGs. Thanks for the encouragement though.

>>2089729
>>2089719
>>2089771
>>2089775
>>2089859
>>2089883
And thank y'all for the input. I'll stop worrying about members and probably grind a little bit.

Looks like I deleted my save a few months ago anyway so I'll be starting from scratch anyway.

>>2090197
The horrendous stats of recruitable NPCs should clue you in that BG is not a game where you need to optimize. It is designed to be beatable with randomly rolled stats and random HP growth/level. You can chill out and play however you want.

The final boss IS bullshit, though. You'll see.

>>2088002
>THAC0
>percentile stats
oh god i had forgotten the terror

>>2090206
Good to know. When I start it up again I'll try to worry less about my build and focus at not sucking at the game. Thanks.

>>2090206
>The horrendous stats of recruitable NPCs should clue you in that BG is not a game where you need to optimize.
Most of them are honestly really fine, I feel, and serve up some really unique shit, like Kagain's 20 CON. Most of the NPCs that are useless are only that way because they come really late or have a shitty class. They only suck in comparison with BG2's demigods.

>The final boss IS bullshit, though. You'll see.
Nah. Angelo's exploding arrows always kill him before I get any say in anything and there's a shitload of cheese tactics that make him a breeze.

>>2088002
>playing EE
Hm, nothing against EE, but as someone who has played BG1 and 2 back when they came out and has played them again with tutu, BGT, and EE, my opinion is that the best way to play is Vanilla. BG1 has its own gameplay nuances and quirks that make the game charming and fun in its own right. Furthermore, the inclusion of BG2 kits completely ruins any semblance of balance.

Also, after all these years, I get the most enjoyment from playing BG2 with no expansion (TOB) and no bonus merchants. Why? Because, (a) I've already beaten TOB a few times and each and every time I had to force myself to get through the game (in other words, TOB sucks), (b) the increased level cap removes any semblance of difficulty/challenge in SOA due to the availability of HLAs before you even reach the halfway point of SOA (if you know what you're doing), and some of the bonus merchant items are simply too powerful and available too early (Vecna and Vhailor are too game-breaking) (c) TOB just seems like too much of a departure from the first two games, it's too action-oriented and linear; (d) some of the TOB weapons/items are admittedly nice, but you get to use them for 2-3 battles before the game is over; (e) the kits retain their sense of uniqueness throughout the entire game (i.e. skald's song doesn't become irrelevant due to the HLA song), and (f) the entire combat of the game isn't relegated to (1) spike traps (2) improved haste + critical (3) improved alacrity, magic spam. The best thing about TOB is the TAB key, but even if you plan on only playing SOA content, simply installing TOB increases the level cap for the SOA content which makes it immensely easier than it already is.

a friend and me plan on a 2player campaign.
i know bg1, he doesnt, we both overdosed on bg2 back then, neither of us have any experience with icewind dale I & II.

I know asking what would be more entertaining comes down to individual taste. i read about id's lack of roleplay, that's fine with me for what we intend and we dont need ridiculous tob-powerhouses, but is id worthwhile?

what would you recommend?

>>2088080
Holy shit....I can make a Jedi Knight? Thats fucking awesome, so doing that next game!

Thanks anon :^)

>>2088072
>Celestial Fury is the best general one handed weapon in the game against enemies that can be hit by +3 weapons.

Absolutely wrong.

Flail of Ages is superior.

>>2090324
>shitload of cheese tactics

That's the problem though. You need cheese.
The first time I played I also played as a Paladin, and I wanted a clean, honorable fight. It's basically impossible though, and I ended up choking them in a web+4cloudkills.

>>2090928
Well isn't Kensai/mage for all intents and purposes, basically a jedi knight?

>Cloth armor
>Mastery of some overpowered weapon type
>Strong, agile, intelligent
>Offensive / defensive / utility magic
>Decimates enemies alone

>>2090463
You might as well give BG1 a go. Its play style is drastically different to BG2. The lack of options at a lower level might shit him, but I know I was less of a fan of the focus on dispelling/miscast in BG2.

IWD is kind of checkpointy, and that also irritated me, with little story to string it together. But if you can treat it as the thinking man's Gauntlet, and build a kick-arse party with your buddy, and you'll probably enjoy it a whole bunch

>>2091114
>That's the problem though. You need cheese.

I always hurled a gorillion summons at everything, so I didn't really notice.

>>2090420
>simply installing TOB increases the level cap for the SOA content which makes it immensely easier than it already is.
Just rewrite the XPCap file in the override folder

>>2090463
From my experience when playing with friends you tend to skip through most of the dialogue, at least most of the irrelevant ones, but in our case we've all played this game already.

A lot of the RPing goes out of the window when playing together, I find. Most of the time you want to control just one character each, and that character will be self-made, so you won't be using any of Baldur's Gate memorable NPCs.

Might as well play the "hack'n'slash" that is IWD. It's certainly a lot more tactical in the early game, allows for a lot more options because there are more cool weapons (in BG1, spears are shit; in IWD1, a dualclass Fighter->Druid spear specialist is a powerhouse), and you could argue that whatever writing is there in IWD, is more mature than the one in BG, which often goes into "lel so randumb" which might not be your thing.

>>2090420
Okay, i agree with some of your points. I hate hi-level abilities, and tob levels are pretty lame and repetitive. however, you're insane if you think that SOA (vanilla) has anhy semblance of balance. here's just a couple things that soa has that is just as cheesy as tob content

-flail of ages has 100% stun (no save) in SoA. check it on infinity explorer if you don't believe me ((flail of ages +3 has 33% chance to stun in ToB) chck on infinity explorer). in soa it has 100% chance to stun (no save). lol that's ridiculous
-vhailors is good for simulacrum -> free prot from magic/undead scrolls which are limited in supply. but if you really want to you can just use potion-swap glitch to use as many pro.t from magic scrolls as you want, without simulacrum/vhailor's. prot. from undead means any lich can't even target you. prot. from magic makes every single boss battle a joke
-cloak of mirroring LOL. in SoA it reflects practically every magic spell back. walk into a room full of beholders and elder orbs and all of them will kill themselves in less than 2 rounds.
-and shit like monks abusing wand of cloudkill (sell & buy/steal back from merchant) w/ hide in shadow, which in the SoA world kills something like 75% of all enemies
-no limit to the number of traps you can set.
-etc