/vr/ - Retro Games

>>2058292
Yeah the X68K was much better overall. It's nice to know they're trying, but for the 8-bit comps the only ones I could see people paying that much for are the MSX2 units.

>>2058309
People pay that much for 20" Sony PVMs alone (counting shipping), the X1 does have some games that are better then their PC-88 counterparts, but the X68K is just much better computer all around.

I also rather have a MSX2 as well.

I think they mean the Xbox One.
Personally I find the X1 more appealing than the X68k or MSX but it's still overshadowed by NEC and Fujitsu computers. The color is great though.

>>2058328
No, they mean the Sharp computer (people want their CRTs), someone major has to cash in on the retro boom and Sharp seems to 1-up NEC on that one.

What makes the X1 special to you by the way?

>>2058292
>$500
What a deal!

>>2058326
>People pay that much for 20" Sony PVMs alone (counting shipping)
No they don't. Mine cost $40 but there are always examples available under $150 shipped.

>>2058336
Some people don't live in areas that have PVMs laying around, hence online shipping.

Go check around eBay for 20" PVM pricing.

>>2058340
There's only one that SOLD for so much though, and that was one some fool paid to have shipped to the US from Canada. That seller probably was dancing. lol. $300 sale price + $200 shipping.

They're definitely going up though. The average schmuch should probably expect to pay $200 now.

>>2058378
For local pick up yes.

It's another story if your area lacks them.

Wait I'm confused - the Japanese Self Defense Force teamed up with Sharp to ship these classic machines out to the US servicemen stationed in Japan? What the fuck? I want one of these - 500 seems a bit steep though.

>>2058423
Yeah I don't understand.
Why would a bunch of 18 - 24 year olds give a shit about retro jap computer system and for 500$.

>>2058402
No, shipped. I thought you were looking at eBay.

I don't even know what the fuck the X1 is or 5 games for it.

>>2058423
No, US servicemen in the middle east, if it does well enough there they might give it to normal people like us.
>>2058427
Everyone has looked up most 8-bit hardware, the X1 seems to be the computer people seem to be looking at since it can do more then the PC-88 in terms of gaming yet the PC-88 sold alot more.

Why it's not the X68K I don't understand, I just guess that the X1 needs some love is all.
>>2058432
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR2.TRC1.A0.H1.Xsony+20+pvm&_nkw=sony+pvm+20&_sacat=0

Under $500 for now but most are local pick up only.

>>2058446
Super Mario Bros Special, also on the PC-88, one of the very few Nintendo IP games to be on a non-Nintendo system post-NES, made by Hudson the best way to play it is by downloading a NES rom hack based on it.

http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/527/

For more X1 games please view this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMDpSVVM8bc

>>2058292
>I'm in Kuwait for a week passing back through from Afghanistan and was just trying to kill some time so I stopped by the PX and they are still selling X1's for $500, no bundle or anything. Launch games still full price, it's crazy.
He's most likely referring to the Xbox One, which is commonly abbreviated as X1 on that forum. Everyone in said thread's talking about current-gen stuff anyway.

>>2058446
That Hyperspin is missing quite a few. To be fair, the Sharp X1 has the least interesting library out of the big three 8-bit computers from Japan (relatively few exclusives), but the best versions of many games came out for it:

Time Secret (adventure game): http://polsy.org.uk/play/nico/?vidid=sm4448820
Reviver (adventure, mix of King's Quest and Ultima): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxHBBIot3GM
The original release of Flappy: http://polsy.org.uk/play/nico/?vidid=sm4175676
Revolty II (Fuga System's first game, appealing vertical-scroll STG): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3KUhDgKoTk
Milky Way (mix of single-screen/horizontal shooting, one of many games submitted through large publishers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-vuBxBO7u4

As for which machine is better, you'll find more exclusives on the X68000, and they're most likely action games anyone with skill can play.

>>2058332
Sharp X1 games usually look and play better for some reason (likely hardware-based). Of course, people don't care unless SMB Special comes up in a discussion.

>>2058465
>Sharp X1 has the least interesting library out of the big three 8-bit computers from Japan (relatively few exclusives),
The FM-7's library is worse, which is kind of a shame since it had the best hardware.
The X1 was also the original platform for a number of games like Thunderforce.
X1 SMB Special is a weird thing with the scrolling between the flip screens.

>Sharp X1 games usually look and play better for some reason
Build in sound is also a reason. PC-88 only got sound cards later on.

>>2058476
Weird, I thought the X1 had better hardware. The FM-7 was a cheaper alternative to both the Sharp and NEC machines without skimping on tech; got a source?

Tecno Soft's and Arsys Soft's games play best on Sharp machines, usually.

>>2058465
No he means the Sharp X1 and does anyone know the launch line up to that computer? Other then SMB Special & Dempa Namco ports I can't think of any western friendly games on the X1 that don't need a translation (I know Hydlide & Ys are on the X1).

Can't blame them for not wanting to talk about other retro stuff besides the X1 or why the X1 when the X68K is a million times better, even the MSX is better and that is not just for Konami either (HAL Labs & Compile say hi).

>>2058482
>Sharp X1
are you retarted, did you even read the neoshit thread?

>>2058451
You could rather ask why not the PC-98 instead. Soldiers away from home need their eroge more than some arcade ports.

>>2058483
Read the whole thing.
>>2058484
Most of that stuff is not in English, same with the PC-88 plus the X1 has better gaming hardware.

>>2058478
All three had a price between 100 and 200 thousand depending on the year and model.

>>2058482
Wizardry on the X1 has an English option. If you got a turbo you can play it with high resolution text. There are plenty of games without Japanese text and even that is often just kana. The more complex stories are mainly PC-88 ports.

>>2058451
>One example of an unsold listing
>What people pay

>>2058292
>Sharp & the JSDF have teamed up to bring retro 8-bit computers to US bases overseas for $500 bucks for both the computer & the 15khz RGB monitor
someone please post source because this sounds like absolute horseshit

>>2058487
The later PC-98 models blow the X1 out of the water. Not to mention that the library is far larger.

Eh, MSX1 ports of games from other systems were downgrades to some degree, even with sprite support in mind. The best games came out for the MSX1 or MSX2/+/turbo originally, whereas the X1 often had superior versions of multi-platform titles. I'm looking at Y. Takata's Warroid right now and the MSX version plays a bit different from the X1 version a year earlier:
http://polsy.org.uk/play/nico/?vidid=sm2983791

>>2058487
Not a single mention of anything 8-bit in the thread, just talk about how slow it is to download games and buy systems on a military base in Kuwait. X1 and PS4 in a single post = Xbox One and PS4.

>>2058496
He's basing this off of someone's blog thread on NeoGAF. Don't believe this has sources even on Japanese newspaper sites.

>>2058497
Probably was referring to X1 vs. PC-88; latter and its 16-bit sequel are definitely better systems in terms of software, though both were inferior to X1/X68000 hardware-wise in their respective eras.

>>2058494
That is very nice to know about Wizardry, I know SMB Special and a bunch of Dempa Namco ports have no Japanese text in it but anything you can't get on gog.com that is only on the X1 that is western friendly?

It's ok if the X1 version is better then the Dos/Apple II version, the FM Towns did it all the time with Windows/Mac games too, but that FM Towns stuff is also in English alot of the time, unlike the X1.

>>2058502
post the blog thread then, because the neoshit thread in OP is about the xbox one

>>2058503
>anything you can't get on gog.com that is only on the X1 that is western friendly
Check this part of the Tokugawa Corp. forums: http://fullmotionvideo.free.fr/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=332

Starscream's X1 set is still up for download, it'll have a large range of games.

>>2058508
I just described the thread as a blog post, lol. No actual blog, no other source.

Why? What would a serviceman want with computer technology that's older than they are and also in Japanese? I don't understand.

>>2058502
The PC-98 wasn't the 16 bit sequel to the PC-88, that was the PC-88VA. 98 and 88 were concurrent models during the Showa era.
You also had the 88MC with its CD drive as an alternative option. NEC computers were a bit of a clusterfuck.
Then again Sharp also had the MZ series running parallel to the X1.

>>2058512
People ITT seem to think that hard bodied soldiers that can pick up a lot of pussy are very interested in 8-bit computing that isn't NES.

>>2058508
No it's about the Sharp X1, not even Gaf is that dense.
>>2058502
You know a C64 could pop up in a PS4 topic if it wanted to, but everyone and their grandma knows about the C64.

Still the MSX was mostly about Konami, HAL did not hit their stride until 1986 but still made some great games for the MSX (Gall Force & the 2 Eggerland games) and support for Nintendo pre-86 (Mach Rider, Balloon Fight) and the Puyo we all know and love showed up on the Genesis/Mega Drive rather then the MSX (they still had their shumps & Golvellius however).

>>2058503
The PC-98 port has slightly better graphics since the Turbo only has high resolution text but there aren't many graphics to begin with.
The X1 has better sound but running against walls is pretty much the only source of sound. A disadvantage is that you can't transfer characters to the marvelous FM Towns port of Wiz 5 like you can with the PC-98.
All in all both are good options if you want to play Wizardry with keyboard controls while being a bit more pleasant to the eyes.

>>2058521
>so I stopped by the PX and they are still selling X1's for $500, no bundle or anything. Launch games still full price, it's crazy

yeah sure he's talking about the Sharp X1

kill yourself faggot

>>2058509
Thanks.
>>2058512
I don't understand either, the X1 is barely more powerful then the PC-88 and the X68000 is what western gamers want.

At least the MSX came out in Europe.
>>2058517
Times have changed.

>>2058517
I don't even get why this is happening. It makes about as much sense as giving Game Boys to NBA players for 100 bucks each.

>>2058515
Whoops, that's right. I keep forgetting about the VA upgrade. Still, quite a few unique games for the PC88VA, like Shinra Bansho.

>>2058521
Just from today's front pages:
>Digital Foundry: Hands-on with Evolve Alpha [PS4/*X1*/PC]
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=929668&highlight=x1

Seems like GAF's using X1 instead of XB1, and so there's a confusion in abbreviation.

>>2058532
No problem.

>>2058534
Until someone comes up with a reputable source who isn't referring to either the Xbox One or Sharp X1 without clarity, I don't believe this deal's happening. T'would be strange if so.

>>2058534
Sharp wants to jump in on the retro bandwagon ahead of NEC.
>>2058530
Has the Sharp X1 launch line up even been documented? Even in Japan?

>>2058503
The classic rape game 177 only Japanese text when you fuck up the second act and get brought to court.

>>2058546
The X1 launched in November 82 for a price of 155,000 yen. I don't think it had any games on launch.

>>2058542
People need to remember this (found it on Miiverse).

>>2058558
I was thinking of that, but something had to show up (even something that is not a game).

>>2058490
Sharp X1 = 155,000 yen
FM-7 = 126,000 yen
FM-8 (stodgy predecessor) = 218,000 yen

From IPSJ:
>The FM-7 aimed to pare down the features of the FM-8 (eliminating the bubble cassette), and thereby achieve greater compactness and a significantly lower price. The FM-7 secured a position as a hobby machine by providing a wealth of sound capabilities (3-part harmony capability using synthesizer LSI) and a diverse range of software.
http://museum.ipsj.or.jp/en/computer/personal/0007.html

FM-7 launched this way, allowing for a quick install base, and most games from the PC-88 got ported at some point.

>>2058563
lol

>>2058573
Who knows how many games were available to new owners via program listings in magazines, or early tape games for that matter. Most computer users were switching from hobbyist precursors like the Sharp MZ series and PC-8001.

>>2058573
It had BASIC build in so you could write your own programs like most other computers of the era.

>>2058583
Yea, that and word document programs.

>>2058576
The FM-7 had two 6809 processors and 48 kB video RAM while the X1 only had a Z80 and 4 kB video RAM. Comparing the X1 TurboR to the FM-77AV is even more in Fujitsu's favor.

>and most games from the PC-88 got ported at some point.
I'd like to see that. PC-88 had thousand games. But of course such ports rarely tap into the full potential of the machine.

>>2058595
X1 has a Z80A (4 mHz vs. FM-7's two chips at 2mHz each (advertised higher)), but it definitely has less VRAM, requiring more bank-switching and assorted techniques. There are some differences between chip architectures, too:

>Although this means fewer clock cycles per instruction compared to the Z80, for instance, the latter's higher resolution state machine allowed clock frequencies 3-5 times as high without demanding faster memory chips, which was often the limiting factor. This is because the Z80 combines two full (but short) clock cycles into a relatively long memory access period compared to the clock, while the more asynchronous 6809 instead has relatively short memory access times: depending on version and speed grade, approximately 60% of a single clock cycle was typically available for memory access in a 6809 (see data sheets)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809

Working one CPU vs. two can be difficult. I'll conjecture the X1 was easier to program for in machine code, allowing for differences in VRAM to be compensated. And since many programmers migrated from the MZ computers to the X1, there was a larger pool of talent compared to how many adopted the FM-8 and then FM-7. Tecno Soft actually switched from the FM-7 to the X1 in later years, fancy that.

>49 posts
>10 unique IP's

kek

Eh I'd pay 500 for the X68k plus a copy of Baraduke. The case design is beautiful and I could play Baraduke for days without getting bored of it.

>>2058639
Thats more like it.

>>2058546
Don't know why they'd bother with military folk as a market.

>>2058649
Bragging rights, if they're going to expand out further in the US.

>>2058620
PC-88, MSX and the Sega consoles also used the Z80 while the 6800 was only used by a few foreign machines like the CoCo or the Welsh Dragon.

>>2058542
>I keep forgetting about the VA upgrade. Still, quite a few unique games for the PC88VA, like Shinra Bansho.
Because there was no point to it. The 98DO was a more practical option.

>>2058620
One reason the X1 launched at a higher price was its added MCU for using TV monitors, allowing users to overlay display graphics on top of a TV signal. Sharp also wasn't going to risk losses in revenue the way Fujitsu did, as the latter company was rolling in dough from their OASYS word processors; both computers developed sizable fanbases, enough for the X1turbo/FM77AV and X68000/FM Towns lines to come about.

>>2058661
I can't recall if PC-88 games are immediately compatible with PC-98 models, but that would be a reason not to bother with late PC-88s.

>>2058546
you can stop trolling already, you're not very funny

>Sharp & the JSDF have teamed up to bring retro 8-bit computers to US bases overseas for $500 bucks for both the computer & the 15khz RGB monitor

So, you never thought while you were typing this, "Boy, I'm really dumb for even thinking this."?

>>2058670
That'S where the DO comes into play. It's a 88 and a 98 in one box.

>>2058675
I only got what Gaf said.

>>2058681
Where does it say anything about 15 kHz monitors?

>>2058670
Finally, the CZ-800C (X1 model number) could take up to 48Kb of VRAM, though Sharp's Television Division forgot that users might want it in the box. So this meant an even pricier machine for the market, no wonder the FM-7 outsold.

Sharp PC catalog with specs: http://s-sasaji.ddo.jp/pccata/x1.htm

>>2058684
Nothing. But that was the refresh rate for Japanese PC monitors before the late-'80s, when the industry started using 24kHz displays.

>>2058685
Why would people want 15 kHz over 24 or 31?

>>2058690
Most older game systems use 15khz RGB (the rest use luma & croma (most Atari stuff, C64) or need a daughter board (NES)), only the Dreamcast uses 31khz when non-/vr/ stuff is component (PS2, GameCube, Xbox, Wii & early 360s) or HDMI (most 360s, PS3 and after).

>>2058690
Most older game systems use 15khz RGB (the rest use luma & chroma (most Atari stuff, C64) or need a daughter board (NES)), only the Dreamcast uses 31khz when non-/vr/ stuff is component (PS2, GameCube, Xbox, Wii & early 360s) or HDMI (most 360s, PS3 and after).

>>2058723
What happens when you use a monitor with a higher rate?

>>2058729
It just does not work is all.

>>2058292
You can still buy a bootleg NESes called "SuBord" , "Dandy" and "HomeCom" here in Russia for 25$

>>2058738
Actually cheaper. 500 roubles is like 20 bucks
https://www.avito.ru/samara/igry_pristavki_i_programmy/prodayu_novye_dendy_i_sega_220132688

>>2058738
>buy a bootleg NESes called "Dandy"

>>2058292
>http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=929923

It's referring to the Xbox One you dumb fuck.

>>2058502
>dem SFX
Was there supposed to be a vid of the MSX port?

>>2060556
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGsUd-w7eU

Funny that the X1 original has better scrolling without hardware sprites.

>>2058292
You are so goddamn stupid it's not even funny.

>>2062881
The MSX is shit. What did you expect?

It needs a Quattron screen or it ain't worth shit.

>>2066136
How are you going to connect that?

>>2058292
>high level

>>2066142
RS-232C, obviously.

>>2058292
Epic troll bro. That'll show those guys to stop using X1 to refer to the XBone.

>>2060159
No it's the 8-bit computer, People want their 15khz CRTs and Sharp listen.
>>2063994
I know my 8-bit computers very well & I'm even learning new things here.
>>2066136
CRTs don't need a yellow hue pallet as no retro hardware uses it, just Red, Green & Blue.
>>2066142
Special cables.
>>2066357
No trolling, he said it is a 8-bit computer, Gaf has issues about miss-naming the Xbone as the X1, and for good reasons.

>>2066403
What's the difference between huBASIC and other types of BASIC?

>>2066414
I know huBASIC was made by Hudson, but thats it.

>>2066403
>No trolling, he said it is a 8-bit computer

>>2066423
Do you know anything about the X1 that the English Wikipedia with its MSX bias doesn't mention?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X1_(computer)

>>2066403
>he said it is a 8-bit computer
no he did not.

>not sure if troll or total idiot