/vr/ - Retro Games

It's highly subjective. Personally, the games that have stories that I have liked have also had at least decent enough gameplay, so I can't really say. I'll tell you if I ever encounter a game with 10/10 story but 0/10 gameplay.

In the age of the let's play/longplay there's virtually zero reason to play a game solely for the story.

>>2041237
Wouldn't that line of argument also basically mean that there is virtually zero reason to play a retro game on its original hardware, or play retro games at all?

>>2041243
>Wouldn't that line of argument also basically mean that there is virtually zero reason to play a retro game on its original hardware,
Yes.
>or play retro games at all?
No, because many retro games are genuinely fun to play.

>>2041237
Yeah no.

>>2041075
Vagrant Story fucking rules

the story of the game and the means by which its delivered are not completely distinct variables that can be simply be isolated from one another. In any game the story is delivered through the gameplay to create a certain kind of narrative.

Even a Let's Play is the narrative of watching a person play a game, and the story itself can't be isolated from the fact that it's being experienced through the act of watching someone else play through it.

>>2041317

Planescape: Torment

Gaming stories are all shit unless you're in your teens still or haven't read any decent books. Even the games that usually get thrown around as having amazing stories are on par with low brow fantasy books.

>>2041414

this

>>2041436
You sound like a teen yourself.

Suikoden series.

apparently, autist storyfags seem to be really into this game >>203255

>>2041468
apparently, autist storyfags seem to be really into this game >>2032552

>>2041465
i'm watching the ending credits for suikoden 2 right now, actually. the story was really the only thing that kept me going through the last part of the game, i think. that said, the good ending made it worthwhile.

>>2041237
>In the age of the let's play/longplay there's virtually zero reason to play a game solely for the story.

Do you not like experiencing things for yourself or...?

>>2041481
how did you play it? i want to play it emulated on my psp but i don't know if i can use my suikoden 1 PSN version save states for that.

Depends on the pacing and if the gameplay is just bland or actually bad.

I think most RPGs have really bad pacing. Put boring, drawn out gameplay that's either incredibly obtuse or simplistic on top of that and you have the perfect recipe for me not wanting to finish a game, let alone get through the initial 10-20 hours before the "real" game starts.

I can't see myself ever finishing any Suikoden game

>>2041465
Earlier this week I started the series to play through each game in order. I took this picture two minutes ago to send to a friend to convince him to play the first game. I then went to take a shit and saw your post. I love this board, and I love Suikoden.

Warning: major spoilers.

>>2041470
Dark Savior has stellar world building. People give shit to the fighting system but thank fuck it's not turn based battles like any other JRPG

I play JRPGs for their stories but that's simply because I consider turn based battle to be a snoozefest with a few exceptions

I think Xenogears' story is great, although I like Eva/psychological stuff so maybe others don't.

>>2041493
If all you want out of a game is a story, and you see the gameplay as something that simply gets in the way, then there is no reason why you shouldn't just watch someone else play it. Playing a game that you don't enjoy AS a game is just stupid.

>>2041741

Gameplay is part of storytelling

>>2041741
>and you see the gameplay as something that simply gets in the way

Is anyone in here saying this? Because I personally don't recall saying this.

>>2041436

So true. The only game story that holds weight is the Legacy of Kain series.

Listen to an audio book.

>>2041882

>books are a superior format

Said nobody who didn't have their head up their ass

>>2041912

Nah, he's right, he's just way overblowing it.

Video game narrative, as simple as it can be, has its place just like any other writing. Not everything needs to be Dostoyevsky or Dumas to be enjoyable.

It is so worth it, yet can ruin the gaming high of everything else for years and years afterward.

Pic related.

>>2041916

I don't think you've read enough bad books or played enough good games if you think one is better than the other.

There's no such thing as a superior format

I find most game stories pretty weak in the more recent generations. It's pretty funny how a mecha fighting porn game had a more engaging and entertaining story for me than anything else in the sixth and seventh generation. Despite simple, the old-school game plots are much more interesting than the recent ones, though. And simple doesn't mean inferior, bookfags.

>>2041949
>There's no such thing as a superior format

This is one of the first things you (should) learn when you study the arts.

I can't help but get a chuckle when someone says one media is better than another for storytelling. They all have their pros and cons and none of them are inherently worse than the other.

Books, movies, comics, television, radio, and yes, even video games.

>>2041962

You don't play enough games then

a lot of what's been written seems unfair to both books and games.

games can have a good a story as books, but they have less of a need to because they have interactivity, visuals, and audio to compliment the story or to simply to fall back on. with books all you have is the printed word, so that has to be good in itself.

when i pick up an rpg, i want enjoyable characters and music with at least a bit of world exploration. i only need plot points to provide situations for character interaction and development, and the writing only needs to be good enough to allow this to happen. i don't expect to expand my vocabulary, read multi-layered satire or social commentary, find adept inclusion of symbolism and philosophy, or get anything else one might want out of advanced literature. if one or more of those things are there, great. if not, the game can still be highly enjoyable.

again, not saying the best games can't do what the best books can in the way of story, just that games get that good far less often than books do. games have to do more things and synergize them to create a good product, so expecting verne out of a final fantasy isn't reasonable. maybe you'd want verne abridged over verne fanfiction, but being able to -play- it is what's most important. if you want verne, then go read verne.

playing games for story is fine, but as excellent as vagrant story is, it isn't hamlet. and hamlet didn't have a bitchin' soundtrack.

>>2042096
>when i pick up an rpg, i want enjoyable characters and music with at least a bit of world exploration. i only need plot points to provide situations for character interaction and development, and the writing only needs to be good enough to allow this to happen. i don't expect to expand my vocabulary, read multi-layered satire or social commentary, find adept inclusion of symbolism and philosophy, or get anything else one might want out of advanced literature. if one or more of those things are there, great. if not, the game can still be highly enjoyable.

The Mother series is so good tho

obviously even if games don't have to they should aspire to something deeper

Even Katamari Damacy has layers

>>2041075
Vae Victus -- suffering to the conquered. Ironic that now I was the one suffering. Not anything as pedestrian as physical pain. Rather the cruel jab of impotent anger -- the hunger for revenge. I didn't care if I was in Heaven or Hell -- all I wanted was to kill my assassins. Sometimes you get what you wish for. The Necromancer Mortanius offered me a chance for vengeance. And like a fool, I jumped at his offer without considering the cost. Nothing is free, not even revenge.

PC game

But Deus Ex and also Strife

Strife is a fucking classic almost no one played or heard about. Light years ahead of anything and it was 10 years before many concepts in the game were seen again and became standard.

>>2042204
nice

>>2042096
Games have in no way hit the heights books have, whether you mean ancient Greek drama, or the Russians, or even Pynchon and Wolfe.

I will however agree that they have the potential to hit similar heights, if not precisely the same ones, as the experience they represent is not the same. If it wasn't for the mass market AAA crowd things would be moving along nicely.

>>2042220
>I will however agree that they have the potential to hit similar heights
Why would that even be desirable anyway.

>>2041237
Your logic is severely flawed.

If someone is playing solely for the story the gameplay doesn't matter, the original hardware doesn't matter, nothing matters except the story. In that case a let's play gives you 100% of the content you're looking for and 0% of the cruft you don't.

I don't know of any games with stories good enough for them to be worth playing for the story. But logically it holds that if there were, the playing isn't really the necessity here.

There's little reason to play a retro game on it's original hardware anyway though. That largely has nothing to do with it.

>>2041513
Does anyone call him on his no true scotsman?

>Not playing VS for the amazing gameplay

Only games I slogged through for the story were the LoK series and Deadly Premonition.

>>2041494
Not him, but I played S1 and S2 early this year on my PSP and had no problems transferring my S1 PSN save to the S2 eboot I made.
You'll need to transfer the saves manually before you start the second game, though (using the Home menu).

>>2043135
excellent, thanks mate

Legend of Dragoon has an amazing story. I already said this in the current LoD thread, but the mystery of the Black Monster is something that makes you want to keep playing, and after you finally learn the secret you want to play through it a second time so you can appreciate the plot with your new insider's knowledge.

>>2041237

Chiming in for the fact that you are, indeed, a fool.

The stories of Lufia 1 & 2 are fantastic. If anything, I'm glad I found 4chan just because I found other people that appreciate the series.

>>2041436
very very true.

>>2041436
Very very wrong. You don't understand literature at all if you think games are comparable. They are an entirely different kind of experience. It's like saying this painting is better than this piece of music. It's a load of nonsense.

Sweet Home

>>2041513
I played Suikoden II first.
Then went back and got Suikoden.
Then played Suikoden II with the save file from the first.
What attracted me the most to the series is this sad feeling the games gives you. That feeling of war being a sad thing that only damages people.

>>2041436
If you want a book then read a book.
Just like a movie when when compared to a book, a video game makes use of more than just text to convey things you would need pages to explain.

>>2041237
>In the age of the let's play/longplay there's virtually zero reason to play a game solely for the story.

Just because we have audio books doesn't mean reading stuff yourself is deprecated, anon.

Experiencing the story of an RPG is differeny from experiencing the "story" of a novel. The novel IS the "story," including all structural and stylistics choices. Even an experimental novel with no straightforward "plot" is narrative and linear in nature. You read it from cover to cover. There are exceptions but they are conscious experiments and not inherent to the medium.

Games are exploratory and not necessarily linear, they offer a chunk of content that can be experienced in different ways and quantities. Getting to interact with the game's world and side-quests, fights, etc. is part of the "story" as well. It's not just a series of cutscenes and text.

Someone can say that they're playing an RPG "for the story" but that really just means they care about what happens to the characters. It doesn't mean they actively wish they wouldn't have to go through the actual gameplay part of the game. Otherwise they'd watch a Let's Play or read a summary of the plot.

Xenogears is the poster boy for this. The story is great on its own but everything else is a cesspit of mediocrity. They probably should have made the rest of the game a VN like they were forced to do with half of disc 2.

>>2042209
STRIFE!
My nigga. Playing through that game was so rewarding just to see the story unfolding bit by bit.
>The factory where they make the guards
>The entrance to the last level with all the test tubes full of body parts
what a great game

>>2041075
Most of the Matsuno's games in general are highly interesting thanks to the story alone, but VS is something different. Even though the gameplay was pretty mediocre i was replaying it till i maxed out everything i could just to rewatch some moments or read some lines again.

>>2041075
sex

Super Metroid's story seems to me as good as that of the Alien movies at least. But it doesnt tell its story with cut scenes during the main game or dialogue boxes.

>>2046578
There was that Bioware writer who wondered why instead of a "skip cutscene" option there isn't a "skip gameplay" option.

It went over about as well as you'd expect.

>>2042241

Just because you're a fedora tipper who completely failed in his father's eyes doesn't make his statement any less true.

>>2041075
I never noticed Ashley is showing off his ass in that pic. I mean I knew about the assless chaps but he's doing that "twisted spine" pose so typical for women in games/comics that shows off both ass and chest at the same time.

>>2046169
Yes, it feels so depressing whenever someone dies and you just think "this could have been prevented" even when some of the villains die.

Grim Fandango
Morrowind
Legacy of Kain
Planescape: Torment
Witcher 1&2
Max Payne 1&2
Homeworld 1&2
Homeworld: Cataclysm
Mask of the Betrayer
Ultima VII
Temple of Elemental Evil
The Longest Journey
Arcanum
System Shock 2

>>2053325
Ashley is really weird-looking here, but Callo is just beautiful.
Shame she was such a minor character compared even to Guildenster's whore.

>>2041075
This.

>>2041882
I disagree it's the only one that holds weight. Pic related. Actually, there are a couple now. And I'd include Vagrant Story in there just because of it's presentation and feel.

Plus, I liked the fact that Ashly had to live with his sins forever and wasn't redeemed. he just had to accept them. It feels similar to existentialist fiction.

>>2043115
I agree. I actually got Vagrant Story on PSN without playing it during the PS1 era. The combat was one of the best bits of the game for me. I liked the complexity of it and not having a standard leveling system like you get in most RPGs. I just wished they mixed the platforming into the combat a bit more though.

>>2042220
>Games have in no way hit the heights books have, whether you mean ancient Greek drama
In terms of narrative content, they have. Greek Drama is honestly not that good compared to today's stuff.

>>2053581
Combat should've been more real-time, while keeping the ability to aim at certain body parts. Honestly the battle pacing is my most serious complain towards the battle system of VS. Buffs, debuffs, sexy as fuck break arts (shame most of them were a simple direct damaging attacks instead of abilities with unique effects, like the ability of staffs to lower the risk), everything was really interesting to use and combine.