/vr/ - Retro Games

Is it possible to have RGB going into a PVM and S-Video going out (to a cap card for recording), or does it not work like that

>>2021819
You won't get S-Video out of the monitor if you're feeding it RGB. It isn't actively converting the signal at all, just acting as a pass through.

What you could do is hack together a cable with both RGB and S-Video ends; Feed the monitor RGB, and run the S-Video off to the capture card.

>>2021960
That is, if the device you're getting the RGB out of is doing S-Video too.

I'm pretty sure there are a ton of cheap extron scan converters that will take an RGB signal and turn it into S-Video on ebay.

Check out the Extron VSC series of devices.

>>2022081
>I'm pretty sure there are a ton of cheap extron scan converters that will take an RGB signal and turn it into S-Video on ebay.
You won't get a nice-looking output from an Extron if you give it 240p. They don't like it at all. Even if you try to genlock it to the original signal, it won't work.

http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/store/p26/Super_Nintendo_Entertainment_System_SNES_RGB_AV_SCART_Cable_PAL.html

I'm looking to buy this EuroSCART cable for my PAL SNES, but I have no idea what kind of sync type I should be using. Does anyone know if I need sync over composite video or sync on luma?

Attached a picture of the back of my PVM, if that helps.

I want to get a CRT sent from america.
Is UPS the only option?
I would rather stay away from that company, as there is a 80% chance of my set being damaged in transport, but I know of no other options

>>2022148
In your picture, there are two ports that say battery. Is that TV capable of running off of a battery that attaches directly to it? Does it only take a proprietary battery or what? I'd really like to know more about this.

Is the difference between component and RGB large enough to invest in an RGB set up?

>>2022354
Those were mobile units that could run on proprietary batteries. They could run on either one or two. Two was always better, but it was nice to have the option to just use one.

>>2022148
I tested mine by jacking composite video straight into the sync input. I could tell it was working as the "no-sync" message went away

>>2022479
The quality difference between the two signals is nominal at best; The real increase in quality comes from the RGB monitor itself.

>>2022148
I doubt that that monitor would care either way, but sync on luma would probably give you less interference.

>>2022479
I don't see any reason why component would be worse off than RGB. There is enough information in the signal to get pure RGB to the neck of the CRT without any aggressive filtering to separate the colours.

>>2022148
I assume you got that from the Ebayer selling off ex Australia ABC gear?
I'm thinking of getting one myself, was it packaged well?

>>2022515
So on a PVM would component suffice for good quality video?

>>2022534
I think so!
Keep in mind that usually composite or s-video would suffice.

>>2022515
Thanks a lot. I'm quite new to /vr/, so sorry for all the questions. Is there an infographic or a wiki where I can learn more about this kind of stuff?

>>2022526
Yes, the same seller! I went and picked up one of the Sony Trinitron PVM-9045QM HR 9" he had for sale, so I can't comment on what their packaging is like.

I put in an offer for $25, but I think he may even go lower if you wanted to try offering $20.

>>2022540
I see. Thanks.

>>2022541
I read up about CRTs on the 'shmups forum'.
Thanks for the info on the ebay thing. Can't pickup as i'm in melb.

>>2022534
A PVM that supports Component video would also support RGB, but yes.

Mind you, most older systems support RGB rather than component, so you'll likely grabbing RGB cables for those anyway.

And S-Video on a PVM looks damn fine as well for that matter. Pic related

>>2022541
Questions are always welcome.

>infographic
There is, but it isn't very well done nor is it terribly informative.

>wiki
There's small bits of info that is pertinent to /crt/ and the like on both of the wikis in the sticky, but it's scattered and wouldn't really do anyone any good just reading straight up. As >>2022550 said, you can pick up a lot by reading through threads on shmups, neo-geo, and various other forums.

I need to stop being such a piece of shit and try to put together a pastebin or something already.

>>2022550
Cheers, I'll head over there and take a look.

May as I ask if you're looking at buying the 9" or the 14" models he has for sale? The 14" looks real nice, but he has a couple of models and I'm not sure what the difference is.

>>2022562
I was thinking about the 9" 9045 one.
Thinking about putting it into a new case and making some mini arcade kinda gizmo....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-5mm-AUX-Female-to-2-RCA-Female-Splitter-Cable-Stereo-Audio-Adapter-Cord-/291092305546?pt=AU_Television_Accessories&hash=item43c674168a

Would a cable like this allow me to use headphones with my PVM? I have RCA male ports coming off my SCART adapter.

>>2022665

Yup, that looks fine.

>>2022665
Not really, you'll be getting the unamplified sound from the console. You need to stick some sort of amp between the console and your headphones.

>>2022689
Phew! Was just about to click buy now.

So is this not the most ideal solution? Would I have to spend much on an amp?

>>2022689
wouldn't that only be if he was using speakers or headphones that require a lot of power? i use ATH-M50s without an amp, but not on my SNES...

>>2022765
I'm guessing it would depend on the headphones. I wonder if I could just plug speakers with their own PSU into it and if it would be fine...

I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to reply, I guess.

>>2022804

Well if you have a powered speaker system which itself contains a headphone jack, that would work. You just have to know what it takes - it'd probably have a female 3.5mm jack or 2 RCA jacks, which would either mean you need to buy a 2 RCA female - 3.5mm male adaptor or nothing at all.

>tfw i just noticed a geometry issue on my plano

plus, part of the image doesn't even show on the topmost part of the screen. Shit sucks, i'll have to try fixing it soon

>>2022804
it does depend on the headphones, but the volume would be pretty low and you wouldn't be able to adjust it at all. If you have high quality headphones and care about all the bells and whistles, you need an amp like a FiiO or something. If you don't, just plug the 2 RCA leads into any pair of computer speakers or something like that and attach your headphones to their headphone-out jack. I do that and it works well enough.

It really depends on what equipment you can work with and how much you're eventually willing to spend. You can either go full-on audio and buy an amp for 100 bucks that will drive anything you throw at it (if you have worthy headphones that is) or just get a 30 dollar logitech speaker set, attach the RCA leads to them via an adapter you can solder in 5 minutes yourself and then use those with headphones or just by themselves.

Hi /vr/ CRT guys!

I've just acquired a Panasonic TX-28F250A CRT for free, as someone was throwing it out. It does have a 16:9 screen, but is it worth hanging onto if the tube is good, or should i take it to landfill right away?

If it is worht gaming on, can anyone help me find the service manual? All i can find are those weird pay walls...

>>2023061
Oh, and can anyone tell me anything specific about it? Is it HD? The cots on it are pretty clearly defined, but the screen ratio is still wide.

>>2023064

Well, can you list off everything you know about it so far? Perhaps you could say what's available in the user menu?

>>2023061
A quick search suggests it is a 100hz HD model. Won't be terribly good for retro, but might be nice for 6th gen+.

>>2023061

I advise you to try it out with a couple of your systems and see how you like it. The only person who can determine if the picture is good is you.
If it's a HD CRT it'll probably be good for Wii, PS2, Xbox, etc. if nothing else.

Question about getting RGB from a SNES (original one, no 1CHIP no mini etc)

From what I understand I just need something like these cables going into a PVM (1953ST in this case)

http://www.retrogamingcables.com/super-nintendo-ntsc-rgb-av-scart-cable-av-lead-cord-for-sale.html


http://www.retrogamingcables.com/sony-pvm-scart-converter-bnc.html

any help is welcome

>>2023089

That looks accurate. Just make sure that you match the two cable types (EuroSCART vs JP21)

hey /crt/, some guy in my town is selling a Sony Trinitron PVM-14M4A for about $80 USD

PVMs seem pretty hard to come by in my country (new zealand), but im wondering if this is a good model and not a price that sounds too outrageous to you guys. im also concerned 14" may be a bit too small, but the picture is meant to be amazing with these things.

thanks for any help in advance

>>2023207
It's pretty good for a 14'' model. Digital geometry adjustments and an HR picture tube are definite pluses. It won't support 480p but that usually isn't so much of an issue, since it does do 240p.

As long as it doesn't look like it's got 4 billion hours on it, i think that's a fair price

>>2023209
i see, so it wouldn't be suitable for my gamecube? as long as my snes, mega drive, nes and 64 can hook up to it with no issues then i guess i am sold!

>>2023212

It would be fine for your Gamecube, your Gamecube does 480i and can only do 480p over the component cables. I doubt you have them since they're crazy expensive.

>>2023217
thanks a lot! ill be picking it up tomorrow then, guess i need to grab some SCART cables now.

another slightly off topic question, but if I buy a SCART cable for a SNES, will it work just the same on my 64? i've seen a lot of sellers offering cables specifically for one system or another.

>>2023228

I believe the SNES SCART cable works on the N64, but you won't get RGB out of your N64 unless you mod it.
I think NTSC N64s support S-Video which will be your best bet for quality video if you don't want to mod it.

Can someone tell me why I can't get my SyncMaster 500s to 1024x768 @ 85hz?

>>2023234

Its maximum hsync is probably too low

>>2023231
I'm curious, would that mean the SNES SCART cable would also work on a Gamecube? I'm just asking because they share the same plug.

>>2023243
I know that North American GameCubes do not have RGB. You can get component if you're willing to fork over $150 for the cable.

>>2023243

I'm pretty sure you can only get RGB From a PAL gamecube, so no, unless you're just using the composite lines in the SCART cable.

>>2023245
>>2023247

Wait, is this person in Australia? Don't they use PAL over there?

>>2023249

Hmm, I didn't realize aus was a PAL region. Maybe they can get RGB from their gamecube.

>>2023241
But apparently it can run at 85hz it's native resoltion, but when I set it higher than 60 it goes blank.

>>2023258

>Apparently
Says who? It sounds like you're exceeding it's horizontal sync range.

>>2023260
Google. If I lower my resolution I can go up to 100hz.

>>2023264

>If I lower my resolution.
Exactly why I think it's a hsync problem. Hsync is affected by both refresh rate and vertical resolution - if you can push your refresh rate up to 85, it's because the resolution is so low that it can pull the hsync far enough down to compensate.

>>2021606

hey /crtg/ I'm new to this shit and I was wondering if you guys could rec me an entry level small crts. one thats lightweight and easy to move around but also have rca hookups and a coaxial hookup.

thanks

>>2023281

The most important thing is to look around what's available in your area. I'm sure you're aware how heavy these fuckers are so just take a look at what's feasible for you to collect in person.

>>2023268
Bummer, hope I can find a better CRT that will push up to 85hz with a high resolution.

>>2023069
>>2023061
If it's a 100hz model, does it support 480p? I've always wondered about that. They were really uncommon in the US.

>>2023308
You can use the "gtf" utility to find out what the hsync frequency will be.

>gtf 1024 768 85
># 1024x768 @ 85.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 68.60 kHz; pclk: 94.39 MHz

>>2023324

I don't have a whole lot of experience with 100Hz CRTs but I have one and it does 480p well.
I'm willing to bet that almost all 100Hz CRTs support 480p, since that's the resolution it'd be scanning at.

>>2023281
Sony TVs are always a good bet. Anything recent, as well, will likely have all the inputs and fairly good quality. They only broke up the LCD price fixing cartel in 2006, so there's still plenty of recent low-end CRTs floating around.

>>2023329
>I'm willing to bet that almost all 100Hz CRTs support 480p, since that's the resolution it'd be scanning at.
That's what I'm thinking - if it can do 480i100 or 480i120 then it should have no problem with 480p50 or 480p60. Do you know if you're getting native, unscaled/unbuffered output? I would definitely pick one up if that was the case. It would be fantastic for PS2/GC where only some of the games support 480p. Oh, and uh, Dreamcast too, because it's retro.

>>2023335

>480i100
>480p50
576i100 and 576p50, I'd say is more likely. I think 100Hz TVs were only common in PAL territories which would lead to its labelling as 100Hz (as opposed to 120Hz) making more sense.
I don't know for certain if what I'm getting is direct and I can only tell you how it feels, and it feels very responsive and accurate. I've been playing Ratchet and Clank recently and it's certainly a fluid experience compared to interlaced on the same TV, which is buffered.
The pause function on my particular TV doesn't work when displaying 480p which seems to be a clear indication that you're getting an image which bypasses the framebuffer.
This is just my particular TV, I can't tell you how others work.

>>2023328
Where can I get that?

>>2023380
No idea; it came with my distribution.

http://www.arachnoid.com/modelines/
There's one that's online and will give you the rates as well.

>>2023380

Looks like a unix utility. Maybe try http://www.abramovbenjamin.net/calc.html

Let's say I want to emulate a game on my PC that runs at 240p at 60Hz on real hardware. Would it be problematic to set my computer to send 240p @ 120Hz to my CRT monitor to play the game?

>>2023334
aight thanks.

my current crt is a bulky phillips flatscreen that my aunt gave me for free. the AV hookups are on the side so its really convenient. I just routed all my av cables over there to the side and I can switch consoles easily by just unplugging one and plugging another in. same with the power cables

its a really nice setup so I was wondering if you knew any similar sony models with the hookups on the side like this only smaller and lighter. Also flatscreen would be nice but not absolutely necessary.

>>2023281

If you're needing a small CRT, the best portable sets are going to be the 8 Inch PVM series, they are widely available for cheap and it's easy to find sets that handle Composite, S-Video and RGB inputs. They have speakers as well. They also have convenient carry handles, and can be powered from a 12V source if you make a custom cable.

The next best thing for portability are the Sony KV-9PT40/50/60 sets. They are 9 inch sets designed to be very compact, however they only have composite inputs. It is possible to add S-Video to them, I hear. The KV-9PT60 can be powered from 12V.

https://batonrouge.craigslist.org/ele/4703111495.html

Should I?

>>2023750
>9in

oh my, not THAT small. I guess I should have clarified. I'm looking for something that's decently sized maybe 13-15in or so that's also pretty lightweight so it's not so difficult to move around.

I'm looking to take it to college with me, while my larger phillips crt here >>2023741 stays home

I'm not really interested in RGB or s-video either, I just want one that has RCA hookups and a coaxial.

>>2023768

Find one of these.

Compact, good picture, sold as late as 2008, composite and coax inputs.

I was just checking ebay for monitors, and there are lots of PVM's (and a few panasonics, jvcs, and ikegamis) with high prices but accepting best offers. I already have lots of crts so you guys should try to low ball them, and post if anyone accepts a low offer because many sellers have multiples. Remember if you make an offer and its accepted, then you have to buy it.

>>2023249
>>2023247
woah, another ausfag here. I can get RGB from my PAL Gamecube? What do I need exactly? I thought I could only use those expensive as fuck component cables.

>>2023768
I'm curious as to what the problem would be with taking a 20" BVM for example with you to college?
Surely you have enough space in your room for a 44cmx44cmx57cm crt?

>>2024064

idk as long as it's not too bulky and hard to move like my phillips.

also I don't even know how big my room will be, not going off to college until next year. I decided to take a year break from school and intern first before going to college

maybe I should compile a list of possible models just in case I somehow get stuck with a tiny room

Hey /crt/ I got a new tube a while back, and I noticed that occasionally I notice a bit of shimmering. It's only really noticeable with text on the screen. Anyone have any idea why that is?

The picture is very good otherwise and I have no other problems with it. I was just wondering if that's just an inherent effect. This also happens on one of my friend's TVs as well.

Pic related is my TV. The model number is TX-R2435.

>>2024063
first time i'm ever hearing of this, but according to http://retrorgb.com/gamecube.html a SNES SCART cable should work with it just fine

>>2023772
made in china shit quality.

>>2024082
PVM's are usually built to be as compact as they can for the size.

>>2024063
From my research, you should be able to get RGB, just not 480P RGB. You'll be limited to 480i, just like with composite/RGB cables

>>2024083
What input? What scan rate?

>>2024082
I would suggest a 14" PVM. Probably the 14L5 since it is more versatile and is a bit smaller than the older models.

>>2024110
this, plus they are cheap

>>2024132
How cheap?

>>2024109
It has component, s-video and two composite inputs and one composite output. As far as scan rate is concerned I don't know. It's NTSC 60hz if that helps.

>>2024143
A decent 14" can be had for less than $100 delivered. Don't expect to get an L5 series for less than $200 though, and they're hard to find at that point.

>>2024094
>>2024097
I don't think most 14" PVMs support 480p anyway, do they? Mine only supports 480i, so being told this is like Christmas morning!

I love you, /crt/!

>>2024168
<100 delivered seems like a fair price. Where does one go looking for one? Craigslist?

>>2024203
They're more readily available on eBay. I've seen a few come up on the local craigslist, but they were hugely overpriced. ($200 for an old-ass PVM-2030)

I live in a shit area for this sort of thing, though.

>>2024143
I suppose an L5 will be a bit more. I've seen 14's go for about 30, and shipping just depends on where you are.

>>2024208
I see. I'll look in my area and see what I find.

>>2024168
>$100 for what is currently outdated technology

>>2024235
This is /vr/. Most of us spend ridiculous amounts of money on old shit.

>>2024241

still though. literally no one but /vr/fags want crts. people have trouble even trying to give them away never mind sell them for any price

paying any more than like $20 for a crt is fucking insane

>>2024247
I'm pretty new to this PVM business, but you would be willing to pay upwards of thousands of dollars to view modern games in the best way possible, right?

Some people are willing to pay whatever it takes it display retro games in the best way possible. These monitors cost thousands of dollars back in the day, and if I can get Super Mario World to look as good as possible, then that $70 I spent for a PVM is infinitely better value to me than if I had spent $2000 on a 3D TV to play Uncharted or some bullshit.

>>2024241
>>2024247

This. Nobody wants those heavy fucking things hanging around their house if they can help it. You are an idiot to pay that kind of money for something that is garbage as soon as its owners replace it.

You could probably find a good CRT or early flatscreen TV for the cost of your time to go and get it out of someones house. I have a huge "high def" CRT TV in my living room right now that I got for a case of beer because I hauled it out of someones garage.

>>2024264
HD CRTs are generally pretty bad for anything other than 6th gen, aren't they? Nice score though, got any pictures?

>>2024264
To be fair, "high def" CRT is kind of junk. Its huge, heavy, and the only advantage is that it can display nicer looking 480p pictures than an equally garbage early 2000s LCD. Its not great for retro gaming.

>>2024263
i agree with you. $70 might seem insane to some people for a CRT, but being able to play my favourite retro games in the best way possible is worth more than any modern TV to me.

>>2024247
must. not. feed. troolllls.

But spending 1000's to play new games that are quicktime event fests with no challange is perfectly sane.

Old games look like shit, have choppy scrolling, shitty color, and input lag on modern displays so bad that it makes many games unplayable. Fuck off.

Just go to an arcade and look at the cabs with replacement lcd's vs the (good well calibrated) crt's. The crt is so much better, so why not buy the best crt's in existence?

>>2024282
>>2024263
>>2024263

when did modern games and monitors have anything to do with what I was talking about?

CRT is an outdated technology. CRTs are basically worthless to any normal person out there. why would you pay $200 for a something that's a worthless piece of garbage to everyone else?

I mean shit, people will fucking PAY YOU just to take them off their hands sometimes because they are big, bulky and impossible to get rid of.

and if you really want to bring modern monitors into the picture, of course they are more fucking expense, that's because they are NEW. once we get something better than LCD and the technology becomes outdated, people will be trashing them just like they do CRTs and they will be cheap as fuck.

you are comparing apples to oranges here really.

>Old games look like shit, have choppy scrolling, shitty color, and input lag on modern displays so bad that it makes many games unplayable.

then get a free CRT? why pay that much for something people literally toss in their garbage. it's a waste of time and money.

>must. not. feed. troolllls.

really?

>>2024371
It can't be "outdated" if it looks better than the current medium. The only reason they were phased out was because of convenience. Big CRT-TVs are impractical and a huge pain in the ass.

>>2024371

Dude, think of it like an older car.
New cars have nicer interiors, are faster, have driver aids out the ass, are more reliable, etc etc .

Some people like older cars for various reasons.

>>2024375

>Big CRT-TVs are impractical and a huge pain in the ass.

That's why they are outdated

Also they are incredibly energy inefficient, they can't display high resolution images without weighing 5000lbs, and they release a high pitched whine 90% of the time

the only thing CRTs are good for nowadays are for playing retro games because they display the native resolution of the consoles and don't upscale into a horrendous mess.

That's the only reason I even have a CRT. If modern LCDs were capable of displaying native 240p/480p etc then I wouldn't even go near a CRT let alone PAY for one. But of course there is no need for such a thing because only a niche community would even use a low res LCD monitor if one even existed. That's just the way the market is now. manufacturers are pushing higher and higher definition and CRTs just aren't capable of doing that. No major retail store sells them anymore, because there's no money involved in something no one wants. Therefore they are, by definition, outdated.

>>2024378

yeah but you can't deny that those old cars are outdated. which is basically what this nigga is doing >>2024375

>>2024404
>they can't display high resolution images without weighing 5000lbs

Yeah, they can. I still used a CRT monitor for PC gaming until 2009. It weighed more like 30 lbs. 1024x768 is "high resolution". And that was just what I was running, not a limit or anything.

People wanting to watch TV on a big screen is what pushed LCD technology. It is cheap and light. And it has always been bottom barrel cheap technology. Plasma looks better for the same benefits.

>>2024416
the 5000lbs was an exaggeration obviously, but 30lbs is still pretty damn heavy considering you can get an lcd monitor at nearly twice the resolution and almost half the weight.

plasma also has it's own issues. and I'm pretty sure once OLED catches on it will solve most of the issues LCDs have, namely the fuzzyness

>>2024437
OLED still has the fuzzy issue, they're still fixed-resolution displays.

>>2024460
really? from what I saw they were much clearer

>>2024467
They've gotta use scalers all the same.
You're still gonna get fuzzy pictures if you're putting in a low-res input.

>>2024404
>That's the only reason I even have a CRT. If modern LCDs were capable of displaying native 240p/480p etc then I wouldn't even go near a CRT let alone PAY for one.

That's the thing, though. These particular CRTs are hard to come by in some places, and some people feel it is worth paying for them when they do cross their path to have the best CRT available.

>>2024471

not really talking from a low res perspective here

when I said fuzziness, I mean the general fuzziness LCDs have.

what really needs to happen is for a technology to be created that is as thin and lightweight as a lcd but is also capable of multi synching the way CRTs do while also isn't as hazardous and inefficient as CRTs are

no such thing exists atm, but if it does get made it will be the god of all displays

>>2024485

LCD's don't really look fuzzy, not as fuzzy as CRTs can look and definatley not at a decent viewing distance.

CRT Tech died off when things were getting interesting. Tubes were getting slimmer and slimmer, and we were pushing higher resolutions. A few companies were putting research into SED display tech, which was a display that operated on a phosphor/electron emitter principle, so PQ was great. They worked similar to how Jumbotrons work, where every pixel has it's own electron gun. They were just as slim as LCDs of the time and consumed less power.

You can do some research on Zeus displays as well, if you want to see what direction the technology could have went.

>>2024502
He's perhaps confusing "fuzziness" with poor motion, which LCDs do have.

>>2024485
Forgot to mention, another interesting display tech that's been developed recently is Laser Phosphor Displays, which work very similarly to CRT displays, in which you have a phosphor screen, except the image is scanned onto it with an IR laser.
It also differs in that the image is scanned in vertical stripes instead of horizontal ones.

It's pretty much exclusive to one company right now, and only in video wall displays, however they claim superior black levels, better response times, refresh rates at up to 360hz, and no off-center color shift. It's more or less CRT tech recreated with modern methods.

>>2024510

which is basically what we are aiming for. CRT has gone as far as anyone is willing to have it go. even if slim CRTs were made they would still have all of the downfalls of CRTs. namely the hazards involved in servicing them among other things

if LPDs can multisynch and also be as convenient and practical and economic as lcds then they are the way to go.

>>2024485
>not really talking from a low res perspective here
Then you should just leave. What does you opinion have to do with old games?

>>2024371
>why would you pay $200 for a something that's a worthless piece of garbage to everyone else?
Because I want the best display possible, and $200 is cheap for that. Other people's opinions do not change the objective, measurable properties of the display.

>>2024371

>Why would you pay $200 for something that's a worthless piece of garbage?
Are you serious? You can't see why people would want to spend $100-200 on a professional broadcast monitor that outclasses anything else for retro gaming? PVMs aren't the kind of thing thrown in the garbage, they're professional equipment.
In the same way that you can get an HDTV for any where from a couple hundred to thousands of dollars, with varying picture quality, you can get a CRT TV from literally nothing to a couple hundred dollars.

can anyone tell me about the Philips 30PW8402 widescreen CRT? Theres a listing on craigslist for 35 bucks, is it a good tv?

>>2024684

>HDTV
Looks like it's not going to be good for much more than 6th gen stuff, and that's if you're lucky. I'll keep looking into it though.

>>2024371
>CRTs are basically worthless to any normal person

Studios are not normal persons, they don't use you everyday piece of shit, but high-quality hardware. High quality hardware, even if old and used, still has some value. Personally, I paid 50 bucks for my PVM, but some models won't be had for less than 100 bucks, like some BVMs for example, which picture quality can still BTFO any LCD or OLED thingy you've ever seen (so much for "outdated" stuff).

Anyway, fuck off faggot.

>>2024694
>Anyway, fuck off faggot.
The only correct response to that post.

>>2023324
>>2023329
Yeah it has printing on the casing at the front marking it "progressive". Also has component inputs in the back. I won't be playing anything older than a PS1/N64 on it, so i'll give those a try and see how it looks.

So no one knows about the service manual for the TX-28F250A?

Thx anons!

I sat down and tried to start work on putting together a pastebin and accidentally an essay. Nowhere near done, and even whats there needs heavy restructuring but it's a start.
Any and all criticism is welcome and even requested:

http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
I need 7zip for words. I also need sleep.

>>2024880

Just be sure you specifically enable progressive scan or your games. PS2 requires a key combo (typically X+Tri), Gamecube games ask you on boot, Xbox, Wii and up have a system menu option.
>>2024972

What is this?

>>2024998
A mostly off the top attempt at putting together a pastebin for the thread OP.

Very long winded and needs to be compressed.

>>2024972
like what I see so far, keep adding before you worry about a second draft.

>>2025151
I plan to finish out what I laid out before I revise it. Just wanted to get a bit of feedback while I try to get letters to form words correctly again.

>>2024094
A 220µF capacitor in series on RGB and a 75ohms to ground and then 220µF in series for composite.
A correctly wired cable for the NTSC SNES has only the capacitors on RGB and composite goes straight to the display, this could cause a unstable sync on certain TVs as the signal can contain a DC offset (capacitor to remove it) and be to strong (75ohms to weaken it).
For the PAL SNES there are 75ohms before the capacitor on RGB, this just makes RGB to dark.

>>2024404
>Also they are incredibly energy inefficient
I recently repaired a shitty LED TV and saw the power rating, the reality was different.
https://archive.moe/vr/thread/1999815/#2002157

You know.
"Nordmende Spectra Color Studio Receiver" was a very expensive TV set from 1970 which includes a big color CRT and 3 smaller monochrome CRTs which all can be tuned independently and the power consumption is fucking 650W.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/nordmende_spectra_color_studio.html

>and they release a high pitched whine 90% of the time
You sensitive faggot, i have plenty of switching power supplies (these are modern).
Most of them also release a high pitched whine, one of them is even 10x times louder than any CRT i had ever heard but only if there isn't a load connected to it.

>>2024972
Maybe expand on CRT not having a fixed native resolution a bit more. You talk about why LCD can't do lower resolutions but then for why CRT solves this you simply give a single sentence.

Maybe also explain that CRT can do any resolution as long as the horizontal scan rate allows it while LCD can only truly do one resolution (unless using a resolution divisible by the native but this is unrelated)
But that really depends on how much detail you want to go into. You'd eventually write a book on the topic.

Do you want the pastebin to be targeted for retro vidya uses only or use it for why CRT blows LCD the fuck out in general?

>>2025174
>Maybe expand on CRT not having a fixed native resolution a bit more. You talk about why LCD can't do lower resolutions but then for why CRT solves this you simply give a single sentence.
I'd like to say this was likely a result in the manner in which I went about writing it, and got pushed off the the way side in an attempt to not ramble on over one specific issue; Something that I probably ended up doing anyway.

>Maybe also explain that CRT can do any resolution as long as the horizontal scan rate allows it while LCD can only truly do one resolution (unless using a resolution divisible by the native but this is unrelated)
I think you put it well yourself right there. It all comes down to how much detail I want to go into on a specific subject and how much that added bloat would benefit the overall goal of pastebin. While something may be very interesting to those who choose to look into the matter themselves, it doesn't add much to an uninformed individual whose just trying figure out why his NES games look better on his uncle's console Zenith than the LCD he bought last week.

That said, the subject will very likely get touched on once I get around to writing areas pertaining to PC use and the like, as nearly everything written so far has been aimed at/for consoles; In fact, I think the only mention of PCs so far has been a bullet point for Presentation monitors.

>>2025174
>>2025202
>Do you want the pastebin to be targeted for retro vidya uses only or use it for why CRT blows LCD the fuck out in general?
At least for the first writing, I'm trying to keep it primarily to retro as per the board we're on, but I can't say that it won't get brought up more in a possible rewrite; I'd like to try to avoid turning it into a long hand version of the /g/ CRT vs LCD copy past if I can. Keeping the scope of it down should help in that endeavor.

It'd probably also be a good idea throw in a terms and definitions table. Not going to start that until I have a "completed" product to build a list of things that need defining from; Otherwise I'll just end up writing in circles trying to come up with ways to include predetermined definitions that would/could just lead to over complication.

Either way, those are some good points and somethings I may not have thought to bring up on my own; Thanks.


Now I seriously need to get some sleep, my head is killing me.

>>2025205
>/g/ CRT vs LCD copy past
Before you die can you post this?

>>2025208
I'd rather not; It'd likely just lead to the same general lines of responses that happen when someone decides to pop their heads in and mentions "outdated technology" and the like, to stir up shit or otherwise.

If you really want to see it, a search on /g/'s archive(rbt) with brent in the username field should bring it up.

>Before you die

Are LG Flatron monitors good? How do they compare to Mitsubishi Diamond Pros? It's all that's feasible for me to pick up at the moment.

>>2025279
>LG Flatron
They're pretty good, it's an aperture grille design, and a good one from what i've experienced.

I know the pictures are took are kind of retarded but hopefully someone can help. I noticed this red line at the top of the screen, and it fades a little less than half way running across the top. I also noticed that in the top right area where that line is, there's also a red tint/red lines that are really prominent. It doesn't look like that else where on the monitor, I included a pic of the other side for comparison but it's probably hard to see. Model is a 1953ST made in 1997. Is there a way to fix it, or is it just getting too old. Wondering if I should just return it while I can and get a different one.

>>2025338
shit, here

>>2025340

It looks like your convergence is going out. It's possible to adjust, but you better be comfortable working inside a powered TV.

Can you throw a geometry test grid on the set?

>>2025348
I might be able to through S-Video from my PC
Is it feasible to do it through snes9x or should I use a different console one

Also to note: I plugged in my 360 via S-Video and it didn't seem to have that issue with the red line(s), though both my SFC and SNES did. Unfortunately I don't have my RGB cables yet to test with the SNES.

If anyone's in Rhode Island there's a free Commodore 1702 on Craigslist right now.

Are there any problems with physically rotating my CRT for vertical shmups?

>>2025538
As long as it has a degauss option you should be good. Just unplug it when you do it and keep it off for a couple minutes after flipping it.
My biggest concern is that the case is suitable to support the weight of the CRT without cracking.
A typical PVM has the perfect case for it. Some other cases not so much.

>>2025549

OK, what would I need this degauss option for?

>>2025557
Sometimes if you flip it and don't give it time to adjust you get purity errors.
Degauss will clear it up for you if that happens. If it's just a normal TV it probably degausses itself when you turn it on.
I believe even if you don't have a degauss option the purity errors caused by putting your CRT in TATE fixes itself by leaving it unplugged.
That's what I've read anyway.

>>2025567

Oh, is that the loud bzzt when the TV turns on? I have one which does it and one which doesn't, though that's not what I'm going to be using for this.

>>2025575
Yes that's what you hear on startup.
I believe TVs without degauss are at least from the 80s. But that is just my assumption based on my PVM-1910.

>>2025590

Ah, OK.
How do I calculate the vertical resolution for a certain horizontal and vertical sync frequency?

>>2025593
I don't know but I found this.
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/bandwidthcalculator.html

>>2025607

Seems to work so thanks.

This site has some cool stuff.
Is everyone viewing their CRTs from a proper distance?
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

>>2025610
Are you emulating something?

What ever happened to the guy who bought that fuckhuge 48" Trinitron and was having it shipped from Japan?

What're the basic differences to know for shadow mask and aperture grille CRTs?

Man this game has NO BUSINESS bein' this good.

>>2025590
>I believe TVs without degauss are at least from the 80s.
Degaussing is necessary on every color CRT to get rid of the magnetic deformation of the mask.
Monochrome CRTs don't have a mask and do not require degaussing.

>try to fix convergence on tv
>shock self
now im too scared to go back in

are there people who fix/properly calibrate PVMs?

could use one

>>2024235

Those things would cost thousands when they were new, so $100 is a pretty fair asking price for one that's used.

>>2024404
>CRTs just aren't capable of doing that.

Uh, they've been pushing 1200p since the 90s and even higher in the next decade.

>>2024404
1600x1200 was standard for CRT monitors by the time that they were phased out, and resolution has little to do with weight.

Also, CRT whine only happens with 15khz CRTs and is the nature of standard definition video signals. Higher resolution CRTs run silent.

>>2026043
>run silent
I just assumed the whine was at the frequency of the horizontal scan rate.
Computer monitors have a horizontal scan rate much higher than human hearing.

Is rgb also not on any Australian tvs?

>>2026569
There's some aussie guy on youtube that makes videos about CRTs, and i'm pretty sure he has plenty of sets that have SCART, which should support RGB.

>>2026582
I just confirmed it for myself by finding a set with scart/rgb, thanks anyway

>>2026625
How common is SCART in Aus tho? Isn't it only German branded sets like Grundigs and Loewes that have it? I'm in Aus and I'd never heard of it before following a bit of /vr/

In Europe, looking into CRTs but I'm a bit puzzled about how to play at proper 60Hz. I mean, can I just get for example a 100Hz TV and do some magic on the console and play NTSC games at 60Hz. Or does most PAL TVs basically have NTSC compatibility?

>>2026832

Plenty of CRTs have 60Hz support. Some only do PAL60 while some do NTSC - both are the same framerate and resolution, but colour is encoded in a different way for S-Video, Composite and RF. If you're using RGB or Component there's no difference.
100Hz CRTs are a completely different story.

is the Sony BVM-2000AP Monitor any good? been looking at getting a PVM or BVM since I started reading about them, is $90 a good price?

>>2026832

>>2026002
>shock self
>now im too scared to go back in
Don't be a pussy. The only parts that have higher voltage than the deflection coils or some heatsink are the anode cap (G3, >24kV), focus voltage (G4) at the neckboard (5-10kV), the flyback transformer where both voltages come from and possibly the screen grid voltage (G2, 0.1-1kV).
Everything else could only kill you if it flows through both your arms and your heart, so always keep your other hand behind your back.

>>2026902
>PAL-60
Many VCR offer a NTSC playback on PAL TV support, basically they output PAL-60.

>SECAM is the best way of encoding color
topkek
The reason why it was used is because it uses Frequency modulation (FM) instead of Quadrature amplitude modulation (QAM), it's indeed better if your transmission distance is so long that it causes a great phase shift rendering NTSC and PAL worse than SECAM.
But the bad side of SECAM is the fact that stuff can't be inserted into the signal like the OSD/stuff of an VCR/Videoprocessor, it needs to be demodulated and remodulated again. Which is the reason why France invented the RGB input in SCART along with it's blanking input to let the TV insert the OSD/subtitles/Teletext via RGB onto the composite picture.

>>2027016

So, SECAM is more accurate but more computationally expensive to alter?
That's why the whole RGB "punching holes" thing had to be done using SCART?

>>2027016
>Many VCR offer a NTSC playback on PAL TV support, basically they output PAL-60.

Yup, my LD player does it, but it doesn't mean that all TVs support it. My Sony Trinitron KV-14M1B doesn't, and my previous TV didn't either.

>>2027019
>So, SECAM is more accurate but more computationally expensive to alter?
Not really, google "SECAM fire".
>That's why the whole RGB "punching holes" thing had to be done using SCART?
Yes.

>>2027021
>Yup, my LD player does it
A LD player could output NTSC443, basically it's the plain NTSC but with the PAL frequency.
>but it doesn't mean that all TVs support it
I know.
>My Sony Trinitron KV-14M1B doesn't
I told you my assumption that the programmer of the microcontroller fucked it up. I don't see a good reason to force the chroma decoder the NTSC on a 60hz signal, my KV-M1450D is very similar to yours but at least it can do PAL60 because the programmer got it right.

>>2026790
I've seen it on other brands but most sets with scart seem to be from when CRTs were getting phased out and usually flat screens

I just bought a 9 inch Sony PVM. I don't have any RGB cables yet, so I can't plug anything in, but is there anyway I can get some kind of picture or menu up to see how it looks?

>>2027096
it should have composite, just play a dvd with the THX optimizer. or use a game console that has the 240p test suite on it. (like a Wii or a SEGA CD)

just picked myself up a nice 25" crt. i love it, its been perfect. except one issue, the crt tends to buzz when i've got the volume set passed a certain amount. is that normal? or is there a way to reduce that effect?

>>2027624
sounds like bad speaker. does it have audio out jacks? (RCA or Headphone)

>>2027628
all its got are two av cable inputs and an rf input. and the buzz is really more of a crt hum, but it becomes more obvious the louder it is. its not really a big issue because it happens at volumes louder then i play at, but it is still mildly present all the time, though game sounds and music cover it up

>>2027695
I would just hook it up to a nice stereo, that would also make games sound better.

>>2027705
oh yea, that sounds like a good idea. I'm a little space constrained at the moment, but after i move to my new place I'll probably do that.

>>2026882
Saw that BVM-2000AP auctioned previously. Now relisted, seems the bidder didn't want to pay $80.

I almost considered bidding but can't find anything online about it, no service manuals either (even paid sites).

>>2028258
might i ask what game that is, anon?

>>2028614
Soukyugurentai on Sega Saturn.
Playing through RGB on my BVM-14G5U.

Is the poster who is importing the 45" sony set from japan here?

Do all US Trinitrons have component input?
If not, how do I tell which ones do?
Craigslist sellers tend to not mention a whole lot but then again most of them are for free

>>2029215
besides looking at the back for it, obviously.
any way to tell by the style? A certain year or model?

>>2029215
>Do all US Trinitrons have component input?

Definatley not. Trinitron tech goes back to the 70's.

As far as telling what models have component, I think most, if not all WEGA models have it.

Pretty much all flat tube models with a silver casing have component as well.

Best way is to ask for a model #

>>2029224
much obliged

>>2029215
>>2029219

>Do all US Trinitrons have component input?

Hell no! Like all other manufacturers models, they only had RF until the 80s, then composite in the 80s, then S-video in the 90s, then component in the late 90s/00s. Professional monitors did have component since the 80s though.

As for the style, it's easy to recognize when did a Sony TV was made:
- Almost furniture-like , with dials and all means it was made in the 70s
- Gray surrounding, black "internal" are definitely 80s (like pic related)
- All black is early to mid 90s
- Silver gray is very late 90s and 00s.

Personally, I think the 80s design is the sexiest.

>>2029224

Up to the 60s.

>>2029215
If you are asking about consumer sets you can check a lot of models here and they tell you the specs.
http://www.mediacollege.com/equipment/sony/tv/
You could even check Sony's esupport and find operating manuals for specific TVs which should specify their inputs.

Trinitron/PVM is probably ideal, but I don't care enough for the time, money and effor required for a somewhat better experience. I'm satisfried with my 27" I'Art I got for 30 bucks. I'll post it later when I'm actually home.

It's this'n: http://support.jvc.com/consumer/product.jsp?archive=true&pathId=74&modelId=MODL026085

>>2029243

Really nice monitor.
Personally, the only 27" monitor I'm dreaming of is the KX-27PS1 (the one posted here >>2029228 ).
Yeah, you're not forced to use trinitrons to get a good experience, but personally, I grew up with them, so they give me some warm feelings on top of a really nice picture.

Long reach here, but do any posters currently reside in japan?
I've found a set I want to purchase and ship over, but EMS has a 30kg weight limit.

>>2027016
With that attitude you're going to kill yourself, oh well at least you weren't a pussy.

>>2029384
>With that attitude you're going to kill yourself
I see this as positive. At least i will leave this gay earth with it's stupid people, forever.

>oh well at least you weren't a pussy.
I'm impressed that someone actually took my joke serious.

I remember the time when i worked as electrician for installing or fixing electrical outlets, circuit breakers, lamps in hard to reach places (where customers couldn't replace or install them) and all that jazz.
I considered these tasks more dangerous than fixing CRTs, especially during the cold winter.

But just admit it that you're just jealous of my knowledge and skills about CRTs.

But back to the topic of GLORIOUS CRT technology.

I spent last week at repairing my KV-C2521D, again.
The following was broken:
-Speakers were rotten.
-IR receiver barely worked, the remote worked fine with my other Trinitron.
-Last time i did a poor job at adjusting the screen grid voltage.

What i also did was:
-Resoldering some dry joints. (pic related, this is how i soldered the chassis)
-Improving my 16:9 hack, less geometry distortion. (I originally 'hijacked' CORNER COR. for pincushion instead of PIN AMP)
-Adjusting the geometry.
-Repairing the middle plastic hook which holds the back case. My clumsy dad broke this.
-Fixing the front buttons.

>>2029460
This was the right speaker, the other one was less worse than this.
Interesting is that i found a dry solder joint on the right audio amp.

>>2029463
These are new and undamaged speakers i found in the "speaker bin", these are properly shielded unlike the old ones and fit perfectly.
8ohms instead of 14ohms (louder than before) and the connector was a different type, but i turned the detachable cables into adapters.

>>2029465
The speakers were mounted at some sort of basket.

>>2029467
These were just inserted into the TV case.

>>2029471
This fabric (or whatever the right term is) holds the speaker unit inside the TV.

>>2029472
This is circuit board which contains the LEDs and the IR receiver.

>>2029473
Getting access to it is a frigging nightmare. The whole chassis is mounted on a plastic frame which is hooked into the case. There are other plastic frames which holds other boards that go to the front of the TV and are hooked into the other frame.
No matter how much i pulled the plastic hooks, they just didn't gotten loose. It was pure random combined with force.

>>2029475
I replaced the IR receiver with an TSOP1138. Not a optimal choice as Sony Remotes are modulated with 40khz and not 38khz.
But i didn't had spare one with 40khz. According to the datasheet, the bandpass would let 40khz pass with 90% compared to the 100% of 38khz.
However it works hell a lot better than before.

>>2029478

>>2029480
The closed resistance of the old switches was about 250ohms.
No wonder why they barely worked.
I took some tact switches from old CD drives made for PCs.

>>2029482
My idea of using black insulation tape to stick the magnet strips (for corner convergence) to the tube works great. Nothing got loose since 3 months when i converged it.

>>2029491
Is it safe to touch that part of the tube to clean it or what ever? I know the anode is dangerous, but is that glass area a danger as well without discharging?

There's a minor tilt on my CRT, is there any way to fix this?

>>2029562
Side.

>>2029509
>Is it safe to touch that part of the tube to clean it or what ever?
Yes, but i wouldn't touch it when it's turned off or on recently. But during operation it's safe.
>I know the anode is dangerous
And the yoke can also hurt.
Just pay attention to metallic surfaces and the metal around big Trinitron tubes is connected to ground.

In doubt you can use a multimeter in the highest volt AC setting, hold the one probe in your hand and go with the other probe carefully to the TV to see if there is any voltage on that part (more than 10VAC could hurt).
I wouldn't recommend this method on the anode and the focus voltage but you may would see some sparks when you would hold the probe near the point.

>>2029562
>Samsung
>is there any way to fix this?
No is the best answer to this. And i speak from experience with this brand.

However, it's simply not possible to get a perfect and distortion free geometry on any CRT.
Even small ones have some little flaws.

>>2029563
>Side.
Maybe you could find something in the service menu which tilts the screen vertically and pincushion.
On my Trinitron (above) it was called "V ANG".

>>2029581
>i wouldn't touch it when it's turned off or on recently
>safe during operation
Why is that; Is the voltage being actively used what makes it safe where as it's just storing it when turned off?

Main reason I'm asking is the tube on mine is horrendously filthy and I was thinking about cleaning it up.

>>2029589
>Why is that; Is the voltage being actively used what makes it safe where as it's just storing it when turned off?
No, but i saw sparks on the back when i cold started it.
It's more about the electrostatic field, it's there for a minute when it's turned on or off.
I'm not sure if you can hear it but it's the crackling noises when it's turned off or on.

>Main reason I'm asking is the tube on mine is horrendously filthy and I was thinking about cleaning it up.
There's no great need for discharging.
Be careful with glass cleaner (strong chemicals, maybe use some water) but better use compressed air from a compressor (i don't think that cans would be helpful).

>>2029617
>It's more about the electrostatic field, it's there for a minute when it's turned on or off.
I understand you now; Don't do it immediately after. I had assumed you meant the usual period of time waiting for it to discharge.

>Be careful with glass cleaner (strong chemicals, maybe use some water)
I was probably going to use plain isopropyl (either 50 or 90) and possibly a second pass with water. I don't have access to a compressor and canned air won't do anything for what needs cleaned off.

>all the captchas are numbers and only numbers

I remember reading about a Trinitron model (can't remember if it was PVM or not) that was basically on par with most PVMs, had RGB, multisystem etc, but I think it was a consumer model. Anyone know what I'm talking about? I can't remember the name/model number

>>2030124
Profeel

>>2030140
thanks but thats not it.
Actually, I think it was a KV model.

>>2029243
JVC is a really good brand (mostly) they were sony's chief rival for many years.

>>2030335
they also made some really great monitors.

>>2030354

>>2030335
>>2030354
>>2030358

this lot of nice JVC's sold last year for around $80.

>>2029460
>KV-C2521D

Looks like a really nice set, does it have RGB SCART? (and real stereo?)

>>2030404
only does rf

>>2030410
you sure about that?

>>2029460
Can you fix my tv?
How much do you charge?

>>2030404
Of course anon.
It's a high end European TV with many technical extras.
Support for many color standards like SECAM (only on 50hz), NTSC, NTSC443 and superior PAL (on both 50/60hz).

Your question is also dumb.
You can see the sockets right there:
>>2029491

>(and real stereo?)
It's has more stereo than any flatscreen you can buy.
Just look at the datasheet of the TDA6200. (the big chip right above the scart sockets)

>>2030410
Troll harder you nigger.
The RF input is unused since 2002 when my family moved to new house with digital satellite only.

>>2030432
>Your question is also dumb.
>You can see the sockets right there:

SCART does not always mean RGB

>>2030429
>Can you fix my tv?
I really would like to do that. But i'm sure you won't like to overcome the distance to germany.
>How much do you charge?
Depending on what i had replaced, how much stress, time, mood and how much work went into it.

But what's wrong with it?

>>2030465
A TV with SCART but no RGB support is something i never encountered in my life, even that small Grundig from the early 80s had RGB on SCART and the OSD of DVB-S receiver was crisp.
Only SCART 1 has RGB, the other one has S-Video only and it doesn't look pretty at all (like composite without dotcrawl).

I have a PVM-14L5 that mostly looks awesome but has a slight color issue -- there's some red tint near the top of the picture. It goes away when I degauss it but comes back after the degauss completes. Should I try to fix this myself or just take it to a professional?

>>2031271
Degaussing is something you can do on your own.
Look up how to do it with a proper degaussing coil on youtube or whatever.
If you don't want to buy one, use a corded electric drill. They generate alternating magnetic fields that will work in a similar manner.

>>2031274
so you think the built-in degausser is just insufficient? I'll look into how you use a coil.

>all these people whining about not having CRTs
>all these people going nutso over >muh original hardware
>still using my CRT from 1997 to play Xbox 360 at blurry 480p
>vital in-game text so small it's completely illegible
>life is suffering
I would practically pay someone to take this thing off my hands

>>2031305
on the other hand, i've been combing e-waste for a while because i live in a backwater. Finally got my own CRT, a shitty Panasonic HD thing. Boot it up on PS1 and it's blurry, with bad convergence, shit geometry, and a bad bottom left corner. Even so, it's light years better, warmer, and nicer to play on and look at than my LCD - which itself has a half-decent upscaler built in.

>>2031305

>complain about people using CRTs because he own a shitty one

Nice contribution.

>>2031305
>480p
I will pay for shipping. Where are you?

>>2031665

I'm willing to bet he meant 480i and he's using composite still.

Hey guys, I'm a little confused with something.

I'm looking into buying a PVM, along with one of these http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/store/p36/Female_RGB_SCART_to_BNC_adapter_breakout_cable_for_Sony_PVM_and_BVM_monitors_.html
So I can plug scart stuff into it. What's confusing me is that there seems to be an audio left and audio right cable on that adapter, but when looking at the back of most PVMs, i.e. pic related, there seems to only be one audio input in the BNC part.

So... I dunno. How do I hook up both audio channels?

>>2032154

You're not supposed to hook the audio to the Monitor, you should use a Hi-Fi system or some kind of twin RCA to stereo mini-jack adapter.

>>2032158
Ah okay, so by the looks of things the monitor just has a mono speaker and I should hook up stereo speakers separately right?

>>2032163

Yes. External speakers are the best option and it's not complicated at all.

>>2032163

Yup, you'll get a better sound too. Most TV and monitor speakers don't sound that great anyway.

>>2032163

Yup, you'll get a better sound too. Most TV and monitor speakers don't sound that great anyway.

Also, nice monitor, I assume it is yours?

>>2032167
Cool, thanks. Might have to make do with the built in speaker or a pair of headphones for the time being, I'm planning on buying a lot of old vidya shit along with a monitor.

>>2032171
Not yet. I'm looking into buying it.

>>2032175

Oh I see. Looks like a nice find anyway. Don't hesitate to post photos of it if you get it.

What's the best way to display a 15khz source on a 31khz VGA monitor?

>>2032278
A good upscaler, obviously. Get one made for games - typically, pro stuff chokes on 240p signals.

will it work?

>>2032606
If you can get OS X to do resolutions that low maybe, but I highly doubt it.

>want a Sony Wega or an LG Flatron
>look for them on the internet
>prices are jewed up
>delivery is triple the price
>TV repairers say "we don't sell 'em, we just repair 'em"

God, I fucking hate living in Brazil sometimes.

>>2032737
well its for my windows pc, but my gfx card has mini display ports

>>2032606
no

>>2032283

I've heard about using Sync Strike + cga2vga, is this a good idea?

Mmm.

>>2033053
Hnnnng

I love that series of Sony monitors.

>>2033063
Has the same look as a 15kHz Commodore monitor with the perk of being 10 years newer than my old Commodore 1081 and being a Trinitron. Prefer it to PVMs.

new to PVMs in general, but is the 14M4U a good monitor? thinking of purchasing one as my first

>>2033752
>14M4U
Very good. 800TVL tube, all the inputs you need, digital geometry adjusments, etc etc. Very good set.

>>2033079

>KX-14CP1
>10 year newer than a Commodore 1081

They were made in the mid 80s for Sony MSX/MSX2 computers.

>>2033917
Chassis says 1995. My 1081 was made 1985.

>>2034086

Then maybe the KX-14CP1 had a longer production span, because it appeared in MSX-related magazines as early as 1986.
Anyway, it looks like a really nice monitor. There is one sold for a ridiculously cheap price (3 bucks?) in a really bad shape but somewhere in the middle of nowhere, in a region next to the one I live in. It's the kind of situation that make you wish you weren't too lazy to get a driver license.

>>2034101
It makes sense since theres a PVM using the same design from 93.

>>2034101
Mine was £30 posted. Isn't in immaculate condition but not terrible. I adjusted the image via pots on the chassis and gave it a good wipe down. Gotta love the massive sturdy power button.

>>2034101
Speaking of small and white Trinitrons.
I was thinking of replacing my badly silver sprayed KV-M1400D with the same one which isn't spray painted.
I watched several auctions of this particular model and someone always bought them for 5-10€ with about 5-8€ shipping.
But then i just found this:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sony-Trinitron-KV-M1420D-/221586300777
KV-M1420D in white with original remote, has AV inputs on the front which are worthless as they are shorted to the SCART input on the back.
It has the exact same chassis, so i guess that mine is just a redesign as the release date from this model (August 90) predates mine by 3 years (March 93).

I honestly wonder how common they are.

>>2034196

I don't know how common they are, but sure it looks nice. I don't know why people would spray it with silver cases, most of the mono-color silver cases from the 00s are ugly as hell (what saves the 80s ones is that the color scheme is pretty nice, with the mix of a less silver gray and black).
Anyway, this seller have fine tastes in video games as I see.

Is there any easy way to know if a HD CRT has native support for lower than native resolutions like 480p, 720p or if they just scale them all to 1080i?

Any kind of database?

New toy for my BVM.

Removing the BKM-20D.
That RGB card is wired to the monitor.
I only attempted to take it out because the manual said to go from the rightmost when installing or removing a 20D. Didn't take that other card out cause I didn't want to unplug the wires. Didn't need to do that anyway.

Installing the BKM-24N

It would be cool to take that controller card out (if they even allow you to) and put my 20D back in. Just to have 4 possible RGB inputs. Overkill but cool.

Ayyy
Now my BVM can do any input you would want.

>>2034465
>BNC jacks
shit's about to get serious

>>2034465
>>2034518
>>2034519
>>2034528
>>2034530
Nice

I'm just here waiting for a HD15female to DB15 male adapter to get here.
Amusingly, it seems that this specific one was made to be paired with old Sony monitors: TQUA16.

Help.
My composite isn't working.
Tried a few of the ports they all give the same problem when using composite.
Haven't tried YC since I don't have a cable for that.
Component works fine on this card though.
Tried a couple composite sources. They all do this regardless of the port I use on the card.

>>2034563

Try putting the Y of component in the composite ports and show how it looks

>>2034563
You need 75 ohm terminators on the looped outputs of the card.

>>2034570
Here is Y going into the same port setup for composite.
Comb is off.

>>2034570
Same thing with comb off.

>>2034574
I thought of that for a minute. Then I tried to go out to my other PVM which has terminators in the monitors and didn't do anything. Looks great on my other monitor looping out of this one. If I can't figure it out I'll see if Radio Shack has some and I'll try it.

>>2034579
That shadowing reminds me of what my shitty capture card would do to my screen when connected up with S-Video.

Composite into BVM on the left going out to PVM on the right where it has a switch to terminate.
Picture on BVM gets more scrambled when hooked up to PVM.

Well it seems to be happening on every input regardless of the settings. I guess when I tried component I didn't notice.
Of course Radio Shack didn't have shit.
So maybe it's the terminators which the manual states you need or maybe the "tested" card is just broken.

Has anyone ever had any significant results from and s-vdeo input on and LCD?

Or is it a futile thing?

Mostly 5th and 6th gen.

Does anyone else find the interlace effect of 480i conten5 visually nice on a crt?

What kind of ports are these? They don't look like BNC.

>>2036126
That's BNC dude.
What monitor is that?

>>2036126

Well they do look like BNC to me.

>>2036102

I do find this kind of content pleasant to watch, but mostly with films and other 25 FPS stuff.

>>2036126
BNC as fuck.

So a seller somewhat near me is offering a Sony BVM-2000AP for about AUD$80.

I can't find much info online about it. I think it's a 1988 model. I'll post two photos, one of the front, and one back. It doesn't look to have speakers, and i can only see Composite and RGB inputs on the back. The seller is claiming it takes component video (by which he may mean RGBS component, or standard RGB, and not YPbPr component)

Is it possible to get S-Video into the unit somehow? It certainly predates the BKM cards for the BVM-D series and up. Might it actually take YPbPr component through those ports?

Anyone have any official specs for the unit?

>>2036238
>>2036126

Second photo. I think I'm posting about the same CRT as that guy. If you're gonna go for it, be my guest. Let's try and keep it out of e-waste though :)

>>2036238
I can't seem to find any info or documentation on it, however it seems like a decent set. Looking at the pictures you posted, it seems like a fairly high-end model. The front panel pulls out for more extensive controls for picture adjustments, if it has an HR tube expect about 800TVL of resolution. I would probably say no S-video and no YPbPr, since on every PVM/BVM i've had is labeled as such, however the 'vector out' ports look curious in that regard.

It won't have speakers, i can't think of a BVM that did.

Also, the damn thing has a key. Shit's probaly got a big block chevy hidden away in it somewhere. I'd be getting one of those retro 70's audio receivers with a key to match it.

>>2036131
When it comes to 3d graphically intended games such as the playstation one or two I find the 480i gives it a lighter finer picture then 480p.

>>2036242
>>2036238

It doesn't look like it can take either S-Video or YPbPr. RGB is good enough anyway, as most people want to get YPbPr out of consoles because it's easier to find a monitor with this kind of input than RGB in some countries.

>>2036252
Thx anon, i might contact the seller and see if he has more info. With later BKM-using Sony BVM's the input ports can be assigned to handle different inputs - or that's what the manual says. I wonder if it's the same with these.

Anyone know, if the set is only PAL friendly, what will happen when i play NTSC backups on my Onechipped PSOne?

>>2036259
I highly doubt that it will have any provisions for changing input types. It most likley won't even have a basic OSD, all the controls will be analog. It's a pretty oldschool monitor, as far as PVM's go.

Every PVM/BVM i've seen is compatible with both PAL and NTSC signals, so you should be good. If you feed a PAL signal into an NTSC only display, or vice versa, it just looks like scrambled crap. It won't damage equipment.

>>2036260
Thx. Thing is, it's going to be a pain to get it. I'll have to get a mate nearby to pick it up, and then arrange to go get it later. It's like a four hour drive followed by an overnight car ferry :/

Without more inputs, cos i'm limited to S-video in some cases, i might hold off.

>>2025228
That font looks familiar...

What game is this, if you don't mind?

>>2036328
Game kicks my ass like no one's business.

I'm just happy I managed to get past the Joker.

Any way I can make a DIY degaussing wand/coil?

>>2036469
You could take the degaussing coil from a another CRT and connect a mains cable directly to it.
Just don't use it for long periods.

>>2036469
Use a corded drill, has a similar magnetic field to a handheld degaussing coil.

>>2036283
Pick up an Extron YCS Transcoder, they're usually around $20 and do a good job converting S-video to composite, give a better signal than passive adapters.

>>2036469
Eh, I wouldn't even bother. All you really need to do is just face a crt monitor up to your tv and hit degauss. It will work if you get close, if it's severe you may need to use it more than once. It's worked for me when my subwoofer fucked my little tv and it was nice not having to hack some shit together and then have more junk laying around.

>Sony PVM-8040 for $20 in my area.
Never got far into the whole pvm deal til I noticed this. Up til now I've just used various old crts found for free on the sidewalk/Craigslist.
Is this monitor a good starting point? Or should I save up for a better one?

Anons, some stores in your countries still sell brand new CRT tvs? I was thinking about this yesterday. Although LCD and modern tvs are predominant here, sometimes I see CRTs tvs being sold (like Sony, Samsung or other less known brands). Anyway, the variety in comparison to the 90's is visible, I only see 14'' or 21'' tvs being sold, is it different in 1st world countries?

>>2036736
Save for better.

>>2036736
>8040
Pass it up. Only composite and s-video.
Unless you just have $20 to burn

>>2036736

>>2036743 is right, unless you like 8" monitors.

>>2036738
There used to be two in my small hometown. An RCA brand store and also Zenith brand store, but those both went out of business about 3 years ago. (rca store got set on fire by some drunk guy. Zenith store just gave up)

Well, the adapter came.
I've got to go under the assumption that the problem is indeed that the monitor doesn't like my laptop; Connecting it up and moving the cable causes slight color changes in the screen, which I can only assume is from it grounding and checking for a signal. Windows, Puppy, and Groovy(arch) all give the same results, so I know it's not an OS problem either. Maybe when I get around to cleaning my desktop, I'll take it up and see how my 6950 plays with it.
Still haven't tried something with S-Video on it. Possibly later today.


Also got a set of pictures showing the discoloration on it disappearing with the application of an old boom box speaker; I can only hope that this means that getting a hole of a degaussing coil will solve this issue.

>>2032795
There are lots of 2000's crt's with screens similar to trinitrons. RCAs Panasonics, Emerson, pretty much all of the flat ones. Sony's aren't the only good crt's, they were just the best in the early days.

>>2036973
This isn't true. RCA, Panasonic, Emerson, etc do produce flat-faced tubes, but they are still shadow mask displays. In fact, I can't think of any manufacturer that used aperture grilles for TV sets besides Sony.
RCA And Emerson certainly didn't use AG tubes in their sets, they used budget chinese crap.
Several companies, Such as LG, Mitsubishi, etc. used Aperture Grille designs in PC Monitors, but not televisions.

>>2036993

Thomson made some in the late 70s/early 80s, with an aperture mask instead of an aperture grid (a mask that have the exact same kind of holes you have in the grid) so they don't have problems with Sony's patents. I don't know if anyone have heard of Thomson outside of France though.

>>2037006

The tech was developed in the 60's by GE and used by NEC in the 90's who trademarked it as "ChromaClear". Overall, they were not as bright as Trinitron CRT's and vertical resolution was limited by the size of the apertures in the mask. It was a definite improvement over a traditional shadow mask display, however.

>>2037013

I don't know if they used the GE tech, or if they simply modified the French lab's tech that is behind the aperture grid.

14M4U for $75, good deal? I'll prob try to talk him down a bit as well

>>2037240
Good deal. 14M4U Is a good set. Should have an HR tube.

>>2037261
Yea I think so, has "HR Trinitron" on top left corner

pics he sent me look good (tube picture quality wise) and chassis looks good. I'll get a better look when I meet him and fiddle with it a bit but I think i'll end up getting it

I'm looking for the best bang-per-buck video quality out of a model 1 Sega Genesis. Now I understand it is possible to mod the Genesis for S-Video but I've also gathered that you can simply run a SCART cable to a scaler and then connect it via component for RGB. However I live in the United States and it will probably be hard to find a CRT with component input. Are CRTs with S-Video input common in the US? Id rather not deal with a scaler, so is there any huge benefit to setting up a genesis for RGB and digging up a CRT with component input? Or should I just mod the Genesis for S-Video and plug it straight into the CRT? Im new to CRTs as you can tell... Just looking for the best quality possible out of a Genesis.

>>2034747
Terminated every output and I'm still having issues with this card that was "tested"
I'm going to contact the seller.

>>2037416
>However I live in the United States and it will probably be hard to find a CRT with component input.
Tons of CRTs from about 2000 on have component.

>I've also gathered that you can simply run a SCART cable to a scaler and then connect it via component for RGB
What you can do is run RGB SCART to a transcoder which will give you Component(YPBPR).

Going with S-Video would be cheaper, and give you a larger number of potential CRTs you could use.

>>2036493
>>2036714

Sorry, should have mentioned I only have the one CRT and it's a PVM so it has its own degauss ability but there's a stubborn spot in the lower left corner that doesn't want to right itself.

>>2036697

A corded drill you say? Hm, I'll give that a go.

>>2036256
You can also buy an Extron CVC to decode YPbPr into RGB with no loss/scaling/lag.

$30 for a PVM-14M4A a good deal?

Will it handle 480p component from my Wii?

>>2037892
Very good deal, HR tubed set, has all the inputs you'll ever need. Won't do 480p though, only 480i

>>2038039
If i set the Wii to 480i on another display, and then plug the component cables into the PVM, will that work, or will it try to use 480p and screw something up, or just go black?

>>2038060
May give you two horizontally-compressed images side-by-side (i.e. two lines coming out of the Wii end up on one line of the display).

>>2038060
It'll work as long as it's set to 480i

>>2038039
Hate to be the guy that asks about 6th gen and asking a stupid question, but if I hook up a PS2/GC/Xbox/Wii to a EDTV will there be any kind of input lag?

Also was there any kind of EDTVs that arean't widescreen? Or any 4:3 CRTs that can display 480p? I'd rather not have to deal with black bars on the side for the games that don't support widescreen.

>>2038086
You can find 4:3 EDTVs, and if the console is natively outputting 480p there shouldn't be any lag

>>2038039
Do you happen to know if it will take Composite Video or Luma as sync? Or should i build a sync stripper?

Found a #PVM1271Q on craigslist for 20 bucks. Worth getting?

>>2038228
Should be good for composite as sync.

>>2038240
Much appreciated, brother

>>2037452

Maybe, but why would you when PAL Wiis can output RGB (he live in Australia, which is a PAL region), and the PS2 too?

>>2038331
The Wii can output RGB? Is that a hardware mode?

>>2038378

PAL ones do, and without hardware mod, as there are official Wii RGB cables.

I just attempted the drill degauss technique and it gave my crt colour purity issues, not the other way around.

Re applying the drill to the screen does not change the issues that are now apparent.

Any suggestions?

>>2038386

NTSC Wiis can be coaxed into outputting RGB with Homebrew as well.

>>2038386
Described in places as "the 2nd best way to hook up your Wii"?

>>2038527

What

Can I get some opinions on the PVM-14N6U?

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask this.
Maybe I'm going to buy an arcade cabinet (a Nintendo Super System, if anyone cares). The seller said that the monitor is not very bright and isn't sharp. Is this fixable? Or is it better/cheaper to replace it with a new LCD monitor?

>>2038582
>The seller said that the monitor is not very bright and isn't sharp. Is this fixable?
Probably, maybe the focus and screen grid voltage needs some adjustment.

>Or is it better/cheaper to replace it with a new LCD monitor?
>better
>LCD monitor
>Nintendo Super System
Not sure if serious, troll or retarded.

>>2038593
Thanks, so it is doable.
And thanks for calling me a retard. I know that CRT's are better, thats why I got 3 PVM's

I don't know how to fix it myself so I have to ask someone who can do it for me, which costs money. I just don't want to spend a lot of money to fix this while it is cheaper to put an LCD monitor in it.

>>2038597
>I don't know how to fix it myself
This is very simple.
Both settings are trimmers (variable resistors as dials you can change with a screwdriver) either on the flyback transformer or the neck board.
You just have to look for FOCUS and SCREEN.

>while it is cheaper to put an LCD monitor in it.
Are you sure that it has standard video connections?

>>2038606
I will ask if he can take pictures of it so I can see it.

>Are you sure that it has standard video connections?
Not sure..
The guy selling it wants to "restore" the cabinet by putting a LCD (arcade?) monitor in
before selling it. So I'm guessing it has the right connections.

>>2038620

Not the guy you replied to, but don't LCD panels require a digital video source, and need additional hardware like an Analog to Digital RGB converter and an upscaler so it doesn't look like shit?
Anyway, you might as well tell to the seller that it's not a good idea.

>>2038096
>>2038096
Wait wouldn't a 4:3 EDTV be a HD CRT? And I've seen some Wii VGA cables online with decent reviews, since all Wii games run in 480p and pretty much all GC games can be forced 480p instead of 480i vis homebrew they would look and play good on a PC CRT correct?

>>2038648
Thanks, I haven't thought about that.

>>2038648
>and need additional hardware like an Analog to Digital RGB converter and an upscaler so it doesn't look like shit

I forgot to say that this is for an analog RGB input.

>>2038648
Yes they do, however all that stuff is built into the driver circuitry of the LCD module.

>>2038767

I see. But it will still look like shit though.

>>2038775
Well yeah, that's the problem of the LCD though, whatever upscaler you use, it'll still look objectively bad vs a tube display.

Are the 14L5/20L5 the only PVMs 20" or smaller that support 480p?

>>2038829
Pretty sure, yeah. If it says "Multiformat", then it does 480p. The L5 series is the only PVM's i know of that do 480p, however several BVM's do 480p.

>>2038620
>The guy selling it wants to "restore" the cabinet by putting a LCD (arcade?) monitor in
>before selling it.
truly, these people are worse than hitler

>>2032154 here,

Decided to buy the monitor! Hopefully gonna go pick it up tomorrow. tfw joining the PVM master race.

>>2038857

Congrat anon, I hope you'll enjoy it. For a better experience, be sure to calibrate it as soon as you get it.

>>2038861
Any tips on doing that?

>>2038862

Check for the 240p test pattern and it's tutorial on the XRGB wiki. It runs on MegaCD, Dreamcast and Wii if I recall.

>>2036915
did you look at the list of 15khz GPU for Groovy arcade?

you might need one with a lower dot clock.

>>2038535
Thanks guys

>>2039154
I wasn't even trying for 15khz sync; This was just an attempt to get any type of PC signal to show up on it. It just didn't want to display anything.

I'm glad CRT technology died, what an ugly monstrocity.

>>2039316
0/10 troll pls go

>>2039321
I'm not trolling, it's redundant and ugly. Take off your damn rose tinted glasses! Back then CRTs wre umusable crap!

>>2039328
Obvious troll is either very obvious or very stupid

>>2039328

>I'm an underage twat who never used a CRT in my life, stop contradicting what Scamsung's marketing campaign told me!

Noice! :^)

>>2039335
yeah, whatever.
>>2039339
Listen mate, I'm nearly 48 years old and I've used CRTs for most of my life. They took up too much room, were hazerdous, heavy and loud! I have probably been using CRTs before you were born!

>>2039346
Confirmed stupid and troll
CRTs are what retro games look best on
if you don't think so that's your prerogative but nobody is going to agree with you so you should just stop trying

Why are CRT threads recently always filled with idiots/trolls?

>>2039353
The fact that nearly no one exercises any self restraint in responding doesn't help matters.

>>2039346
>Listen mate, I'm nearly 48 years old

Seems legit with the way you talk, right?

>hazerdous, heavy and loud!

Yeah, truly dangerous devices! With that and all the claims saying that they throw cancer rays in your face, they must have been a hell of an adventure!

>>2039346
Still angry that you hurt your feet when the bigass CRT slipped off your hands?
Just get over it and grow up, spamming in a thread about technology you don't like will not change our minds.
>They took up too much room
Some people here don't live in tiny apartments.
>were hazerdous
Were not idiots either. The smart people here know about the dangerous vacuum.
Modern CRT from 80s and up are protected from implosions unless you throw a brick or something at it.
And CRTs usually have a high voltage warning on the back.
>heavy
Has a good side. No burglar one can snag it easily and don't want do it anyways especially when the clueless people believe blindly what the industry and the salesman says.
>loud
I don't get it. Isn't that a good thing when a speaker can be load and clear?
>Listen mate, I'm nearly 48 years old
>I have probably been using CRTs before you were born!
That's so fucking rad mate, tell me more.

>>2039371

Don't feed the troll

>>2039348
Why? Because it's anti-alised? I can program features which perform anti-aliasung on LCDs and LEDs.
>>2039362
The way I talk? You mean me being fucking mad by being insulted by the ones who are the real trolls?
>cancer, attempt at sarcasm
I had a cat who use to sit on a CRT all the time and died of... guess what... tumours all over her body!
>>2039371
Hey, you can continue wasting $1000s of dollars on a fucking old piece of crap. Not my prob, bro.
>tiny apartments
Well some people have more money than you and can spend money on a good LED.
I'm not even referring to that which is dangerous too, I'm referring to the radiation it produces.
>continues with the conspiracy nuttering
Have you any proof of this even? NO.

I'm sorry that your cat got cancer, but she likely got it from you, not your television.

I once had a pet rat die of cancer. Her cage was right next to a CRT. I wonder if that had anything to do with it. I doubt there is enough there to cause cancer on humans, but tiny rats might be more likely to suffer ill effects from CRTs I imagine.

IC in the Navy here.

You're more likely to get cancer from these generals than you are a cathode ray.

>>2039401
>I had a cat who use to sit on a CRT all the time and died of... guess what... tumours all over her body!
you really gotta be more subtle

>>2039401
>Well some people have more money than you and can spend money on a good LED.
You mean an LED-backlit LCD set? I've got one of those, for 4K sources (like 2 movies on Netflix...), because large CRTs never made it there. It's alright.

Would anyone happen to know why CRT's look washed out compared to LCD's in pictures?
Would this have anything to do with the lighting/camera?

>>2039521
Some possibilities:
1. The camera isn't capturing the light well because of shutter / refresh rate interference
2. The wider contrast ratio isn't being captured by the camera
3. The lower brightness isn't being captured by the camera

>>2039521
It's because of how a CRT 'scans' an image onto the screen. If you slow it down fast enough, only a single point is ever illuminated on the screen, whereas an LCD always has every pixel illuminated.

>>2039528
I assumed it had something to do with how light was emitted from the electron gun, but couldn't find any talk about it on google.
So basically the phosphors on the crt are dimmer because they are not directly lit?
Also would this be reversed if you used a camera with a slow shutter speed?

Any suggestions on how to fix this colour misalignment and geometry?

>>2039518
I am telling you how it fucking was, also go around asking others if you don't believe me. Search up "cat death crt cancer."

>>2039691
Read the service manual.

>>2039780
no really, you can stop now. you're clogging up the thread

Is there a difference between internal sync and external sync?

>>2039790
You're pissing me off, so I won't reply anyway.

Haha, didn't DO YOUR RESEARCH AND ACTUALLY LOOKED IT UP. Bevause you KNOW it was true you are IN DENIAL, rose-tinted fag.

CRTs are hazerdous to the environment, your pets, you. But I know you won't listen, don't worry the government will make them illegal one day.

>>2039835
Why are you typing like the Time Cube guy?

>>2039835
why did you come here?
why are you doing this?
does this make you feel good about yourself?
do you really think you're going to change anyone's mind?

No.
Go resume your life, if you have one.