/vr/ - Retro Games

Infographic

>>2009836
Good info. Just one question.

What exactly is the difference in quality between tvs and professional monitors? Is it just build quality or actual image quality?

>>2009865
Both, along with more capabilities/inputs/adjustments

>>2009875
Well damn. I want one now. I'm guessing they're expensive as fuck right?

>>2009901
Depends, it's mostly a matter of luck

>>2009865

>>2009865
>>2009865

Few things:

First off, there's no TV tuner. This makes it a monitor. We don't care about it, RF Is trash.

Pro monitors come in much higher resolutions than consumer TV's. Higher-end consumer TV's capped out at around 600-700TVL, which is still good, however broadcast monitors go up to 1000TVL and above.

Pro monitors display a much 'purer' signal. Whatever you put in is what you get out, there will be no digital image enhancement done to the signals you put in, as on consumer TV's. The exception is that most pro monitors have a double or triple pass comb filter on the composite in, but it's a simple circuit that doesn't really add lag.

Plus all the other good shit: more options for inputs, RGB support, 15khz, better adjustability over geometry/image settings/etc.

A very important factor is also repair-ability. A pro grade monitor will often be easily serviceable, and most Sony models have full schematics available online.

>>2009901
Expect to spend somewhere around $150-200 shipped for a basic 20 inch in decent condition, shipped.

Has anybody here, had the opportunity to test out "gaming" on a sony LMD?
I understand they were considered "bad" monitors by the public, as such is the reason why sony went back to making CRT's, but I'm curious as to how their video processing is for analogue to digital signals and the consequent lag that it produces.
I understand there were sony LCD tv's around the LMD era that processed analogue to digital, but did the LMD have a processor inside specific for those "professional" video monitors?


There were two LMD models, that have a resolution of 640x480.
I can't find any information on them in regards to gaming though.

>>2009943

I can imagine that its pretty piss poor, compared to a CRT.

Based on marketing info i've found, the LMD series only output 16.7 million colors, as compared to a CRT's theoretical 'unlimited' color depth (Although limited by phosphor specs).

I can imagine that lag would be minimal, though. These monitors are designed to display the signal 'as-is', displaying an image as close to the input signal as possible. There probably will be some measure of lag, however, simply because it is a digital device.

Add to that the fact that old vidya simply looks like trash on fixed-resolution displays (Muh scanlines) makes it bad for a /vr/ monitor.

I can imagine any 480p games from 6th gen consoles would look pretty good on it though. Being a pro monitor, they're definatley a cut above the rest.


Personally, I can't wait until OLED-based BVM's get cheap in a decade.

>>2009972
Image quality wise, I would agree. But if you wanted something that hardly takes up any space, and is plug and play for gaming consoles with no lag, plus the benefit of not needing a scaler.... then perhaps it might be interesting.

The only problem is, they're quite rare. Rarer then 15khz BVM's.

But either way, I would still be interested in measuring the lag from it. In comparison to a DVDO edge for example. And seeing the picture quality.

why do crts implode

>>2009985
because vacuum

>>2009987
can't they make it so that it won't send shards of glass flying?

>>2009972
>>2009982
Have a look at the one piece type section in the brochure.

https://cvp.com/pdf/sony_lmd_family_brochure_2006.pdf

>>2009991

They do make it so they don't asplode everywhere.
99% of the time if you break a CRT made in the past 5 decades it'll just shatter in on itself, fairly unspectaularly. They have safety bands around the perimeter of the screen, so if the face is broken it will hold it's general shape.

Glass still get everywhere because, well, it's glass. It's not like CRT's are bombs waiting to go off. Besides, it's an /implosion/ not an /explosion/.

>>2009996

I don't get it. What am I looking at? It's all fairly standard.

>>2009836
The reason why CRTs have scanlines isn't because half the lines are missing. It's just the way the technology works. The black space (scanline) is the time it takes for the scanning electron gun to reset back to the other side of the screen and start drawing again.

If you want proof just look at something in 480p on your CRT computer monitor. You'll still seem them faintly. You can even see extremely faint scanlines on 1080i material on Sony WEGA tvs if you get up right next to the screen.

>>2009901
Not really. You can buy one new directly off of ebay for less than a thousand dollars. Compare that vs a new high quality LED LCD tv.

And that's the lazy way of going about things. If you look around a bit you can get one for just a few bucks.

>>2010026
That also explains why interlacing is a thing. Truth be told, the screen also blacks out completely every field/frame.

>>2010002
okay good i was scared of going blind from my crt imploding and glass shards flying into my eyes.

>>2010026

Not quite, the fact that half the lines are missing is partly true. If you were to compare a 240p to a 480i signal, it would be true that half the lines are 'missing', since 240p has half the vertical resolution of 480i.

Scanlines have nothing to do with "The time" it takes for the electron gun to move back to the (usually) left side of the display. We can move the electron beam around at nearly the speed of light, and it's flying across the screen at about 15,750 thousand times a second.

Scanlines are simply the absence of video data. The black lines are nothing more than undrawn phosphor. Since the electron beam only illuminates a section so tall, you end up with lines between the video data. The higher the resolution, the more lines of video data, and the smaller the scanlines get. Bigger screens get bigger scanlines, smaller screens get smaller scanlines.
Scanlines are nothing more than a video artifact.

>>2010031
Interlaced video exists more out of the necessity to fit more resolution in a finite amount of bandwidth.

>>2010036
#1 rule about implosions

>>2010047
Well what I mean by the time it takes to move back is there is a specific speed, size, and number of lines to be drawn on the screen, and so much screen real estate to draw them on. Yeah, a CRT could probably draw the entire surface at once over and over leaving nothing black at all, but for some reason they don't do that.

>>2010047
>Interlaced video exists more out of the necessity to fit more resolution in a finite amount of bandwidth.

Yeah and that bandwidth comes from demodulation or it's made on purpose so that the gun has the time to scan 60 pictures per second? Like, couldn't you get a 480p on a normal TV if the signal instructed the gun scan the next row backwards? Explain.

>>2010047
The infographic seems to imply that the scanlines are going to be the same size as the pixel lines, which isn't true at all. Reminds me of old ZSNES scanlines filter, and how crappy it was.

>>2010069

Not really, since the electron beam and the electronics which drive it cannot move fast enough to scan 31KHz horizontal sync

>>2010071
Why not? What's the big difference in tech?

>>2010061

> for some reason they don't do that.

Because 240p signals have 240 horizontal lines of resolution. We have devices that can insert extra lines to fill that in, they're called scalers, and they suck, generally.

Line doublers tend to not be so bad, and are often neccesary to get HD+ signals into CRT projectors.

>>2010069
>>2010075

>signal instructed the gun scan the next row backwards

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.
>>2010071 is right though.
With a 240p image, you're drawing 240 lines per frame.
With a 480i image, you're still only drawing 240 lines a frame, only you need 2 frames to make one full image. This is the basis of interlacing.

With a 480p image, you're drawing 480 lines in a single frame. The electron beam has to go twice as fast, hence the horizontal sync being 31khz.

>>2010075

It's just that all the timings get fucked up. If the display is only expecting a 480i signal and it uses the same timing circuitry as a 480p signal, it'll be unable to scan the image correctly because it can't account for the difference in timing.
Of course monitors which have a range of horizontal sync frequencies exist, but since TVs only needed 15KHz and monitors 31KHz+, there's not a lot of overlap between those two sections.

>>2010080
Ok so the beam DOES go back twice as fast when scanning an empty line, because it's not really scanning it, right?

>>2010084

It doesn't scan an empty line. When it reaches the end of line1 , it moves down 2 lines and scans 3 instead.

>>2010081
>If the display is only expecting a 480i signal and it uses the same timing circuitry as a 480p signal, it'll be unable to scan the image correctly because it can't account for the difference in timing.
And you get to see stuff like this.

>>2010086
>>2010026 said
>The black space (scanline) is the time it takes for the scanning electron gun to reset back to the other side of the screen and start drawing again.

Why can't the gun go down 1 line instead of two? >>2010081 thoroughly explained it (what I guessed, timing/engineering issues) but if you know more feel free to add to the discussion.

>>2010091
He's pretty much got it. It just takes more bits and pieces of tech. If you ever look at the inside of a multi-sync monitor there is a LOT more than you see inside a television that is designed for displaying only one or two kinds of signals.

>>2010091
>Why can't the gun go down 1 line instead of two?

It does only go down '1' line. It starts immediately scanning the next line of video data. It doesn't 'skip' a line, because there is no line to skip. CRT's aren't fixed-resolution displays, so if you input a signal that only has 240 horizontal lines of resolution, it scans out 240 lines. What is inbetween these lines simply 'doesn't exist'.

>>2010087
That's because the TV is still operating in the nominal "draw even/odd line" mode, right? Or is the right side of the screen being drawn on the opposite lines?

>>2010101
>>2010098
>>2010097
>>2010091
Whilst were on the subject, what are the multisync monitors available?
There are the:
PVM-20L5
BVM-D20F1U
BVM-A20F1U

What else is there available?

>>2010101
I think what's happening is that each line of 480p video is sent in half the time it takes for one line of 480i signal, and a TV that only does 480i will actually display 2 lines of 480p on only 1 line of 480i because when it gets only halfway though its scan of line 1 the 480p signal is now sending line 2, which is why you get the dual image.

>>2010097
So there could actually be an hybrid monitor/TV which did both old style 240p/480i as well as 480p, without 240p being upscaled to 480i/480p in the process.

>>2010098
>>2010086
>>2010026
You should make up your minds though.

>>2010108

Ikegami HTM series
NEC XM Series
Mitsubishi MegaView Series
That weird Gateway Destination monitor
Anything Sony "Multiformat" labeled
Late-model JVC's, however these tend to be missing the RGB card and only have an SDI in.
Pretty much every PC CRT is multisync, but doesn't support 15Khz.
CRT Projectors (lel)

>>2010113
>hybrid monitor/TV
These are Multisync monitors, see above.

>>2010086 is more describing how interlaced video works, nothing to do with why scanlines exist really.

>>2010026 is kind of right i guess but it's worded confusingly.

>>2010110
This sounds like you could fiddle with the circuitry to slow down the rasterization so the next line only starts when the first one has been spread all over the row? With extra fiddling for not skipping one line entirely.

Or would this lead to bandwidth overlaps?

>>2010118
I see, thank you.

>>2010118
You can add Mitsubishi Diamondscan to the list that supports 15khz up to 48khz, and some other old workstation monitors. Sometimes called Tri or Quad-sync.

To properly explain this scanline thing, let's do a thought experiment.

Let's say you have a picture, a piece of paper, and a marker. The picture is the input signal, the paper is the CRT screen, and the marker is the electron beam.

You are told to reproduce the picture on the piece of paper with the marker, however you are only allowed to make 240 horizontal lines with the marker to do this.

Since you have to fill up the whole paper with only 240 lines, you end up with a lot of white space between your lines. This is representative of a 240p signal. These white spaces represent scanlines.

Now, if you're told you can use 480 lines, you can double the amount of lines on the paper and make the white spaces much smaller. This is like a 480p signal.

Since it's a blank piece of paper, you aren't really limited to how much or how little lines you can draw.

On the other end of things, imagine if you now have a piece of grid paper. You have to use 480 lines with your pen on this paper. However, the image you're told to transfer is smaller than that, it only has 240 lines worth of data. So, you end up making up those other lines in between the ones you transferred from the picture. Since you have to make them up, they don't look great.

This is what an LCD acts like. Since it's a fixed resolution, unlike a CRT, it always has to use a fixed resolution to display information, therefore anything that doesn't match that fixed resolution has to go through a scaler.

>>2010118
>>2010108

Commodore 1940/42/50/60 Amiga monitors
Sharp CZ-6xxD x68000 monitors

>>2010134
>>2010126
>>2010118
Now that we have a good list, what posters actually own some of these sets?

>>2010121
>you could fiddle with the circuitry

You want the beam to scan faster, not slower. I can't exactly say what's going on in >>2010087, but i can say that nearly every 15khz display that i've tried to put a 31khz into has behaved differently. Sometimes you get garbled crap, sometimes the image is squished, sometimes you get absolutely nothing.

Some monitors you can permanently damage by putting in a scan rate that is higher or lower than what they support. Older monitors have a very real possibility of burning out the deflection coil.

But getting a usable image isn't just a matter of circuitry tweaking. You'd have to get it to sync to a signal twice of what it's designed for.
Imagine if you tried getting the engine in your car to rev to twice it's design spec. That's what you're asking that tube to do.

>>2010138
There are several people here that have L5s

I have a Megaview, but no way to output 31khz+ to it yet.

>>2010138
I have owned

Mitsubishi Diamondscan 20m
Mitsubishi Megaview XC-3717C
Mitsubishi AM3501R (precursor to Megaview)
NEC XM29 plus

>>2010138

I hope I did anon, I hope I did.

>>2010152
You don't have a PC you can connect to it?

>>2010130
Now we need an example to explain shadow masks.

>>2010149
Wait, is >>2010087 a 31kHz signal? I thought it was a plain 15kHz one, like from Component or something.

I had a 480p 15kHz HS signal in mind when I wrote that post.

>>2009795
I would rather have a television like that Trini in mint condition than a brand new PVM. No lie.

>>2010159
It's not a matter of having a source, it's a matter of not having the proper cable/adapter.

Apparently it only accepts 15khz on RGB1(of which I have a VGA to BNC) and I don't have a the proper cable to use RGB2 yet. Need to get on that.

>>2010167
480p signal output to my 20m2mdu. I got the same image outputting to my GXTV as well.

>>2010162
What i described in >>2010130 has nothing to do with shadow masks or aperture grilles.

These are a bit easier to explain.

Both are methods to separate the three separate electron beams to the proper phosphor dots, so you actually see proper colors.

Pic related, you can see how they are structured differently. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, but generally an aperture grille will give a sharper picture.
Sony won an Emmy for the technology in 1973

>>2010174
What specific model of Megaview is this?

>>2010167

It looks like a 31khz signal displayed on a 15khz-only display.

There is no such thing as a 15khz 480P signal. By definition, 480P is a 31Khz signal.

>>2010178
I know it has nothing to do with it, but it is an oft misunderstood concept.

I am one of those people who look for shadow masks when I can instead of monitors with aperture grilles. I just like the way they look better.

>>2010180
Exactly what it says on the chip in the upper right hand of the corner of the photo: Megaview XC3730c.

Which reminds me, I still need to try hooking something up to it over S-Video. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow.

>>2010174

Is this actually your monitor? I think I may have seen it somewhere else prior on the web, though it may have just been a prior CRT thread.

Search ebay for a PC to MAC video cable. Old apple monitors used DB15 video.

>>2010190
Oh there it is. Ever tried sending it a 480i signal over the RGBHV?

>>2010182
This explains a lot. So when any piece of electronics is outputting 480 lines in progressive mode, it HAS to be 31kHz, right? And so it will fit nicely on any consumer monitor if you like transcode Component to VGA, without any further steps.

Thanks.

Last, dumb question. Even though 480p is a 31kHz signal, the sync rate has nothing do with resolution or drawn lines, right?

>>2010190
Also that's kind of weird that it has the higher model number, because my 3717C could sync to 31khz over RGB1 just fine.

>>2010191
>Is this actually your monitor?
Yes. Nearly any photo I post is my own, unless otherwise stated. It was likely a thread from a week or two ago.

And I know, I just haven't gotten around to it yet.
>search ebay for PC to mac video cable
>vga to hdmi boxes everywhere
PC to db15 worked though.

>>2010192
I also don't have a sync stripper, and the only system I have a proper RGB cable for is my SNES and it's wired for composite video rather than composite sync.

>>2010197
I'm just going off of what I was told by someone who had owned one on neo-geo. For all I know, it could accept 31khz over BNC and that the monitor is just in really dilapidated condition and that bit is fucked.

>>2010193

Yeah, a simple component -> RGBHV/VGA transcoder will get you video that works on a normal PC CRT monitor. Minimal lag to, since it's only a color space conversion.

Sync rate has everything to do with resolution. If your refresh rate is 60hz, and you're displaying a 240p signal, the electron beam is moving left to right across the screen roughly 15 thousand times. This is where you get your 15Khz horizontal sync rate.

Double that and you get 480p. 1080i is something like 33.8Khz. 720P is 45Khz.

I've never seen a 1080P TV monitor before, since that's not a common broadcast resolution, but just double 1080i and you'll get it's horizontal sync rate.

Of course, start messing with refresh rates and things get a bit weird. All of the above assumes you have a 60Hz refresh rate, since that's a TV standard. Raise the refresh rate and your horizontal scan rate will change to keep the same resolution.

A good example of this is PAL video. It has a higher resolution (525 lines vs 480 lines), but a lower refresh rate, therefore the Horizontal scan rate is the same.

This is also why on PC monitors, the lower resolution you set them at, the higher refresh rate they can push. A 120Hz 480p signal displayed on a PC CRT will have a horizontal scan rate of 62kHz because it's drawing twice the number of lines in a second.

>>2010138
I have an NEC XP29 Plus. No idea if the picture quality is any different from an XM.29. Looks quite good, though I do notice a slight moire effect on certain patterns, but probably wouldn't be noticeable by most. It seems to bbe a bit picky on sync, or at the very least I had to build a sync strip circuit for my Playstation sync on luma cable to get it to work.

If anyone has questions about this monitor, I can try to answer.

>>2010206
So I take it you also don't have one of these?

>>2010207
You think a 1080p CRT in the 34" size would have ever been feasible?

>>2010224
>>2010174
>of which I have a VGA to BNC
I do, and when I connected it up to my laptop and desktop PC, neither could manage to get it to display anything; Only the default blue screen.

Sorry if my wording on that was a bit weird. This is SNES over composite.

>>2010216
Every big Mitsu or NEC monitor I've ever seen has had moire issues. They are most noticeable on pale blue backgrounds.

>>2010228

There are 19" CRTs that can display up to 1920*1440, so I don't know why a 34" one couldn't be made.

>>2010193

Sync rate defines resolution and refresh rate.
You understand that there is vertical sync and horizontal sync, right?
Horizontal sync in KHz is the frequency at which a new line is drawn per second (not per frame!). 576i50 and 480i60 both have 15KHz horizontal sync. Horizontal sync with verical sync taken into account therefore determines the vertical resolution.
Vertical sync is the number of fields drawn per second. This is 60 for NTSC and usually 50 for PAL.
Horizontal resolution is different. Analog video doesn't send pixels, it sends lines: In between the hsync pulses of 480p video you don't get 640 distinct colour pulses, but a continuous stream of colour. That doesn't mean that the system outputting video hasn't rendered a finite number of pixels, though. This is why "superwide" resolutions don't break CRTs designed for the same vertical resolution.

>>2010230

I wonder if your video card in both of them isn't working on them. These monitors can be kind of funny about what they accept. I had a few different graphics cards when I had my Megaview and it would only accept a signal from two of my Nvidia cards (and wouldn't take it from a third Nvidia). I'm about 90% sure I tried a laptop on it and got nothing.

>>2010228

There's no doubt that it would have been feasible.
The Sony FW-900 is a 24'' 16:10 PC CRT that is capable of resolutions up to 2560x1600 @ 59Hz (Though i've heard they're actually capable of that res at 75Hz).

CRT Projectors will go to 3200x2560 with a Horizontal sync of 180Khz.

The only reason that Pro CRT Video monitors were never manufactured to 1080p is that 1080p is not a standard broadcast resolution.

The PVM and BVM series were aimed at TV and Broadcast facilities, and 1080i/720P is the highest resolution TV content is transmitted at.

Consumer TV's never got to 1080P most likley because the tech died out before 1080P content was really common.

>>2010245
>The only reason that Pro CRT Video monitors were never manufactured to 1080p is that 1080p is not a standard broadcast resolution.

Aren't these CRT monitors Ikegami is still producing capable of displaying a 1080p video signal?

>>2010249
No, only 1080i. If you look in the advertising literature for them, you can see that it's a circa-2009 design.

>>2010252

Ah I see. Okay, thanks for the rectification.

Should I stay away from BVM's that have had their tubes replaced?

A seller has mentioned the set has 10,000 hours of operation, but the tube was replaced in 2012.
Does the BVM status menu reset once the tube is replaced, or does this mean that it has had the majority of hours on the old tube and the new tube is.... well as they said basically new

>>2010240
No idea. Laptop is a r60 Thinkpad running off the GMA950; Desktop is a AMD 6950.

All I have other than that is quite old graphics cards (ati 9600) that might not even work anymore.

>>2010245
>Though i've heard they're actually capable of that res at 75Hz.
Nothing has a RAMDAC fast enough to actually do that, if I'm remembering correctly.

>>2010259

If you're getting a good deal on it, it'd jump on it.
10,000 hours is LOW for these sets.
The internal counter could be original or reset, depending on if the tech replacing the tube had reset it or not.
However, everything in these sets is solid state and very, very reliable. The only other thing that could possibly wear out is the flyback, however this was probably replaced with the tube.

>>2010232
Thanks for the info. I think I noticed it most on water or something like that in Kirby's Dream Land 3. It isn't awful, but if you have a sharp eye you can see it on some things.

>>2010269
I would have purchased it already, its just that the actual outside condition is a little bit scratched up. And its going to be placed on my desk, so I was waiting for a perfect condition set to show up.

Do you own one of these yourself stan?

ded

>>2010305

I love Cotton. The characters are so cute, and the gameplay is nice.

>>2009260
ni hao anon!

>>2010315
not bad for a vhs copy, hope I get the blu rays someday.

>>2010318
>>2010315

games

>>2010323
>>2010318
>>2010315

on the same monitor

>>2010307
First time playing. Seems fun, I'll have to try it out later.

Gettin' artsy-fartsy

>>2010324

>>2010327

>>2010326
>>2010327
>>2010329
I never get bloom in my photos. Maybe it's because I'm using such a low ISO.

>>2010323
>>2010324
>>2010327
>>2010329
I never get bloom in my photos. Maybe it's because I'm using such a low ISO.

>>2010329
>delicious brown peasant girl

>>2010330
>>2010332

I think its just because this camera sucks.

its from an old busted HTC EVO 4g

>>2010315
>>2010318
and these are from an even older fuji camera

>>2010305
>>2010326

this from the tg16 game?

>>2010336

>>2010339

>>2010339
>>2010340

>>2010341

>>2010343

>>2010348

>>2010338
Panorama Cotton and Phelios respectively, both for the Genesis/Mega Drive.

>>2010337
I don't know, I'm using a 6 year old (or so) Kodak

>>2010350

>>2010352

>>2010354

>>2010356

>>2010358

>>2010360

Never realized this thing had a creepy face until I took this pic on a HR monitor.

>>2010361

>>2010362

>>2010354
>>2010356
>those eyes
The number of blue heavy photos that shit has ruined for me is in the hundreds

>>2010351
Never knew they had one on Genesis. neat!

>I don't know, I'm using a 6 year old (or so) Kodak

this thing blooms even on non-crt shots, i think its lens is scratched up

>>2010365
tfw I recognize pulse man's sound test

And I played the unreleased English prototype on the Sega Channel! (back in 90’s when I was just a kid)

really loved that game.

>>2010365
yeah, these cameras have wacky color bleed issues.

wish i had a really nice DSLR for some 4k and 8k shots.

>>2010368
I don't know terribly much about cameras, so I don't know if that could be it. I don't think that's it since I have managed to get bloom on it a while back taking a photo of Balloon Fight's title screen in Animal Crossing.

I really hope mine doesn't break soon though; Its lens(not the glass) doesn't seem like its still connect correctly internally, and it was refusing to turn on properly a day or so ago. I really can't afford something like a new camera right now.

>>2010371
Never actually played it before, but I'm planning to tomorrow. Wanna see what GF was able to make before they began to endlessly milk the cow that is Pokemon.

>>2010374
If and when ever I manage to get a significantly decent source of income, I'd like to pick up a Sony RX100. Small and portable but supposedly has really nice image quality.

>>2010365
>>2010305

Noticed you take a lot of side angle shots, any reason why?

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51890

Looking at this thread on the shmups forum, a poster has converted 480i to 240p


http://a.imageshack.us/img444/9742/ps2extron480i.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img375/5637/ps2extron240p.jpg

Is there any reason that the 240p has less lightbleed then the 480i?

Looking at the bottom right corner where the "version" text is, you can see the difference in the two frequencies.

>>2010376
The Cotton photo isn't at that extreme of an angle, but taking shots from the side (with my camera at least) really helps it focus and pickup everything well. Straight on photos are nice, but end up with moire issues a lot more often.

>>2010381
>Is there any reason that the 240p has less lightbleed then the 480i?
Because the 480i photo is capturing two fields of video at once, resulting in more of the CRT's surface to actually be illuminated.

Managing to catch a single field of 480i can be a real bitch, I might add.

>>2010378
>Never actually played it before, but I'm planning to tomorrow.

the game mechanics take a minute or so to get used to. the overall aesthetic makes it look like it should play like mega Man. but to me it plays more like a cross between Strider and sonic the hedgehog.

once I got the hang of it I really enjoyed it.

I really wish they had tried to make a 32-bit game with this idea. I think it could've been really amazing

would also be nice if they'd give him a cameo or something in Pokémon. just a little acknowledgment. (or put him in smash)

>>2010378
what's the name of that Sega game on the monitor, it looks super cute.

Are the XBR 16:9 sets the only sets that will look this vibrant?
Or is it possible to get this look via component on a multisync monitor

>>2010398
I'm referring to 4:3 sets by the way, such as the NEC or sony monitors

>>2010398
my 20L5 can pretty much looked like that, downside is it will be only 4:3 ratio or letterboxed.

so for widescreen content, personally I would play on a widescreen monitor

if possible

(pictures like that also depend a lot on the camera and lighting conditions)

>>2010374
>image is 3264x2448 8mp

that is basically 4K UHDTV (2160p) is 3840 pixels wide by 2160 pixels tall (8.3 megapixels), which is four times as many pixels as 1920x1080 (2.1 megapixels).

8K UHDTV (4320p) is 7680 pixels wide by 4320 pixels tall (33.2 megapixels), which is sixteen times as many pixels as current 1080p HDTV, which brings it closer to the detail level of 15/70 mm IMAX

>>2010398
Any of the professional spec monitors used in video production will look as bright and colorful. Multisyncs used for desktop PC usage will not look like that. They'll still look, but not as bright.

>>2010396
Magical Tarurūto-kun, also by Game Freak. No idea how it plays, I was just quickly switching through a few games when I took these photos.

>>2010409
And before anybody comes in and says PC monitors are just as bright as televisions and video monitors:

I have compared a Sony CPD-G520P (4:3 sibling to GDM-FW900) right next to a Sony KD-XS955 (Super Fine Pitch Wega like an XBR), both of them properly set up, and the XS955 was probably twice as luminous.

>>2010410
thanks!

>Magical Tarurūto-kun
>Fifth grader Edojou Honmaru is one of the most trodden upon losers in his class, until he meets Magical Taruruuto-kun. Taruruuto's powers help him deal with all his hardships, such as girls, bullies, and numerous other challenges.

sounds neat!

>>2010416
that makes sense, my trin-based pc crt (kds avitron av-7tf). was really dim especially near the end of its life

used it from 2001 to 2011,


Zsnes scan-lines never worked with it, so I thought scan-lines sucked until I found this thread.

Is the anon with the PVM 20L5 here?
I was wondering if you could take a picture of the screen playing beyond good and evil on the ps2 or xbox through component 480p

>>2010460
i'll try, I know I have it on ps2.

I might not have it anything else. (xbox would the other)

I can plat any ps2 game at 480p (would that be cool?)

>>2010464
I picked beyond good and evil because its vibrant.
>see image

And it will hopefully look even better on a crt monitor

>>2010473
I'm uploading now,

(that shot was taken with a capture card, not off screen)

>>2010510
I could not find any images of the game off screen at all on google unfortunately

>>2010520
I took a lot of pics, upload is almost done.

>>2010460
>>2010464
>>2010473
>>2010510
>>2010520
>>2010524

Here is the Download link for my set, tell me what you think.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/egwpv8

>>2010528
i'll post a few shots here.

>>2010534
I think the game has a very vibrant look on a crt.

I don't remember it having that letter boxing on my old tv. its been years since I've played.

>>2010536

>>2010537

>>2010539

>>2010524
Some of them are a bit blurry, (I'm assuming the camera was shaky)
But some of them are absolutely perfect.

<See this one for example
The game looks outstanding on that PVM
Quite crisp and detailed.

>>2010543
It was always letter-boxed.
I believe there is a mod to remove it for the PC version. But the original games on ngc/xbox/ps2 were letterboxed

>>2010543
And this image.

>That green colour coordination with the pvm led buttons

>>2010543
yeah, sorry I have really shaky hands (not feeling well)

And my cameras don’t track motion very well at low iso settings, that’s why it was hard to get any action shots.

anyway, I hope you got some use out of them. It really is a beautiful game.

I need to get a tripod.

>>2010545
oh, cool glad its not just my copy then.

>>2010549
haha, I forgot to turn those off.

another really gorgeous game at 480p is Odin Sphere,

(but you need Xploder HDTV Player for PS2 to force it into a real progressive mode).

i'll take some pics of that game when I have some more time.

I am comparing side by side of my 1680x1050 LCD display and my 1024x768 CRT display. It really is disgraceful of how washed out my LCD looks, seriously I'd record a video of it but I have no stand.

>>2010580

>>2010581
that keyboard looks awesome!

>>2010580
>>2010581

I know what you mean, all my LCDs have crappy blacks and color next to my CRTs

and the LCDs are fairly new. (2010, and 2012)

>>2010558
If you do take some more images, take a couple in 480i of the same picture for comparison.
I'm deciding between a 15khz only set, and a multiformat. So hopefully there is not much difference between the two. (Apart from the flickering of an interlaced image)

>>2010378
>Taruruto

There's no universe in which you're not my nigga.

Convince me not to buy this, /CRT/.

It's a Samsung TX-S2782H 4:3 HDCRT. I already have three pvms (20/14/5) and I'd have to drive back to the thrift store, which is like 20 miles since it wasn't on same yesterday but is today ($35 vs $25).

I don't have an HDCRT and for some reason I want one. This one is moderately sized and a top tier brand, at least when it comes to panels.

>>2010679

Ask if you're permitted to test it out with, say, a Wii with 480p test suite.

>>2010681
I'm sure I would be but if I drive all that way again I'm going to buy it. I already fired it up and eyeballed the menu boxes pretty good the geometry seems fine, it's definitely shadow mask when I pressed my eyeballs against the glass. It's one of the final push of high-end consumer CRTs. It didn't get any OTA stations but I think the thrift store was just too far from any to catch them without an antenna.

>>2010679
This is just me but
I'd rather have an HDCRT that was 16:9.
I don't see a reason for a 4:3 HDCRT unless you were only using it for 480p. With a 16:9 HDCRT you could use it for your current gen games and HD movies (would only get minor letterboxing with 2.35:1 films)
Even your 480p capable games can usually be put into 16:9.

>>2010679

If it's 20 miles there and 20 miles back, you're not saving any money. Maybe it's on sale today, but you're going to spend nearly that $10 in gas going a second time.

>>2010581
Out of curiosity is the Quake on your LCD rendering at your native res?
Only asking because the rocket launcher looks a bit stretched on it and it wouldn't be fair to compare the two if you weren't doing native res.

But even without that the "darks" around the edges of the LCD are just unforgivable.
>B-but it's HD! It's better!

>>2010718
HD CRT sets can usually scan 480p natively, so they're awesome for DC, Xbox, and Wii. They also typically have a "squash" mode that compresses the picture vertically so you get full 1080i resolution in 16:9 material.

Keep in mind that, for the same diagonal measure, the 4:3 television will be about 12% larger in area.

>>2009972
>Based on marketing info i've found, the LMD series only output 16.7 million colors, as compared to a CRT's theoretical 'unlimited' color depth (Although limited by phosphor specs).
While yes CRTs are limited by their phosphor specs and brightness. Video cards only put out 24 bit images, IE 16.7 million collors. That's all you'll ever get out of any standard CRT display that isn't also an HDR display. Virtually all forms of media consumers get are 24-bit beyond the 10bitx264 encodes for 30 bit, which are then decoded to 24 bit color. Their entire purpose is compression based.

>>2010728
It's the principle of the thing. Plus I wouldn't be taking my Ram I'd be taking the wife's 1.8t Passat and it's 90% highway miles.

>>2010718
>>2010743
Plus a big part of it is just contributing screen shots to /crt/. I'm genuinely curious how it will display 240p over component. Too bad I don't have a high speed video camera to conduct some delay tests on these things, but I do have a distribution amp for component so I can put a native SD consumer set next to a PVM next to the HDCRT and record fast action to give an idea of how far behind any given frame might be.

Is it possible to hook up my CRT TV (which only supports composite and RT cables) to my computer?

>>2010772
Sure it's possible but you're either going to have shit quality or spend more than it would take to get yourself a nicer TV that will hook up easier.

>>2010762
Well if you're doing it for the sake of the hobby itself and learning more about CRTs then go for it.
I figured you just wanted it for modern games.

>>2010784
Nah I got a native 720p plasma for that.

Do 20" PVMs have any disadvantages over 14" PVMs?
Was wondering if maybe with a bigger size does the convergence or geometry get worse.

>>2010775

Ok, don't exactly know what I should do.

>>2010795
>Nah I got a native 720p plasma for that.
Where'd you find that? All I've seen are godawful 1366x768 panels, same as LCD.

>>2010297
No, but I've got a friend who has one of the multiformat BVM's. Fantastic sets.

Right now, I have a PVM-20M2MDU with very low hours, a PVM-8044Q that has a terrible image but is good for moving around.

I've also got a few KV-9PT50 sets. Really neat, however I need to fix the sound on one. Apparently you can mod s-video into them too.

>>2010416
It's worth noting that some 24-inch BVM's use the same tube as the FW-900

>>2010819
I haven't noticed any difference between 14'' and 20'' PVMs as far as convergence and geometry goes. You should be able to bring in the geometry on any PVM very easily as long as it has a digital chassis.

>>2010991
>It's worth noting that some 24-inch BVM's use the same tube as the FW-900

I'm going to guess the tube can be brighter, it's just a matter of the rest of the electronics in the set being different. Or maybe not, the BVM is for critical work after all, and being overly bright can be counter-productive for that kind of thing.

>>2002157
>It could feel nice when someone brings you a TV to repair, but unfortunately it's a godforsaken LCD TV UE46C6820US.
>They managed to rip off the special Samsung "S-RGB in" connector needed for the SCART adapter and the pads on the board are undamaged, i think i can solder that piece of 0.5mm pitched garbage back.
And i done it at Wednesday.
I made a comparison between my KV-C2521D from about 1991 and this UE46C6820US from about 2010.
With U-four-ia on my PAL NES, obviously composite and i didn't bothered to adjust the contrast and brightness on the LED TV because it was already set to 'natural'.
And I calibrated my Trinitron to look natural, so should be a fair test in my opinion.

Damn, this is what i call an improvement in name of technological evolution:
>Black level is much worse.
>The lag is terrifying, with about 80ms*. (impossible to enjoy any kind of game)
>Even the sound lags, which causes a echo when both output audio.
>SCART goes into a proprietary adapter, with an socket that can break of easily .
>Interference is more apparent.
>Even more ugly artifacts and a always enabled sharping filter.
>Deinterlaces non-interlaced signals (240p60, 288p50), it tries to pull down but when it scrolls then it fails miserably.
>Failed to work with that cheap ass RCA+S-Video to SCART adapter, i had to swap it. Trinitron works fine with it.
Yeah, i see why this hot thing beats every CRT in this world.

*U-four-ia draws a new letter each 2nd field, 2 letters behind is about 2*2*20ms=80ms of lag.

>>2011018
And here you can see the artifacts, notice how my Trinitron doesn't have them.

Contemplating selling two of my 14 inch PVMs to make room and cash for another 20 inch PVM.
The only thing is I want to learn how to adjust the purity rings and would rather do that on my cheaper 14 inchers than a new 20 inch.
If I let go of these two 14 inchers I'll have nothing to experiment on. Though if I fuck up I won't be able to sell.
I'd kill for another 20 inch and with my local connection I'm able to get one for a decent price.
Tough decisions.

"CRT THREAD"

>inforgraphic

>"hey guys, look what I got!"
>"it's shit"
>repeat til autosage
>new CRT thread

Is it really necessary to have this thread exist perpetually?

Dragon Ball Z was actually pretty decent, filled out the plot of the games quite a bit (but still fluffy even compared against other anime). If you're coming from the newer non-retro DBZ games it'll probably feel a bit skimpy though.

Is it better to have NES games fill the screen at 640x480 or keep the width at 512 and have black space on the sides? I'm conflicted.

>>2011184

Depends on if you're using a CRT or not. Fill the screen if you are and keep black space if you're not.

>>2011184

If you're using a CRT and an emulator, shouldn't you make a custom resolution of 512*480? That way you get proper aspect ratio without scaling.

>>2011191

That'd be great if I knew how to make a custom resolution.

>>2011193

I know it's possible, because custom resolutions (typically nonstandard horizontal resolutions) are very often discussed in these threads.
I don't know what tool you use unfortunately.

3840x480 for every console master race

>>2011193
Custom Resolution Utility
Nvidia Control Panel
xrandr and xorg.conf

Etc.

>>2011207

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is 3840 the LCM of all the most common horizontal resolutions? Is that why it's used?

>>2011210
Yes. You can go higher than that but you may run into max pixel clock issues

>>2011148
Well enthusiasts are gonna enthuse

But yeah most people here can't get past nostalgia and embrace modern, cheap non eye cancerous inducing display technology

>>2011263

If you don't like CRTs and don't recognise their benefits, why are you even here?

>>2011269
Sorry I intruded on your secret club grandpa.

>>2011274

Just go back to /v/. We've got enough of your kind of shitposters in >>2007990

>>2011263
Why would I embrace something objectively inferior in many ways?

Also, implying I don't have a 1080p LCD monitor on my PC

Yo niggas, 20" PVM with Olympus brand that is pretty cheap and low shipping in Maryland:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLYMPUS-Trinitron-OEV203-COLOR-VIDEO-MONITOR-/321551183692?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4addf1af4c

>>2011276
>Just go back to /v/

Thats pretty much the official slogan of this board

This ones pretty cheap too if you live close enough to get decent shipping, low ball the shit out of em and see what happens:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-PVM-1953ST-19-Trinitron-Color-Video-Monitor-/361083177157?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item54123c08c5

>>2011330
what's the difference between one of these and a 20m2mdu

i might just buy it

I would like to buy this, its a couple hours away from me. But 235? Maybe 100 or so. Its pretty neat though, big ass vga monitor in a tv case.

>>2011346
Not sure, I used to own one and it had a great picture. I believe its just rebranded. I also have a theory that monitors used for surgery probably weren't left on as much as studio monitors, but maybe I'm wrong

>>2011349
sorry forgot the link:

http://fayar.craigslist.org/eld/4695976824.html

>>2011351
fug i wanna buy this like right now, they said it's not tested and their warranty/return policy
doesn't apply to items like this

makes me a bit nervous

>>2011358
oh i'm stupid it's bid only

didn't even realize

>>2011358
its always a risk, but what would life be without buying stupid shit on ebay

Any of the lcd tv's any good?

>>2011390

For retro? Not really.
If you're set on using an HDTV you should probably use a high quality upscaler.

>>2011335
>low ball the shit out of em and see what happens:

doing it, maybe i get lucky

I was playing Metroid Prime and I noticed that everything looked rather blurry. I adjusted the width of the picture and suddenly it became much sharper.
Is this related to the dot pitch of my screen?

is there a fucking pvm/bvm that supports 480p or do all of them do 240? i want to watch dvd rips and play dreamcast on one, but i guess it's not the best, right?

>>2011525
see
>>2010108
>>2010118
>>2010126
>>2010134

If you see "Multiformat" on the upper right hand corner of a PVM/BVM's bezel, it'll support 240p(480i), 480p, 720p, and 1080i.

>>2011525

Pls read the thread

>>2011530
>>2011531
thanks. sorry i didn't read those ones beforehand, i'm tired and was just taffing like a motherfucker until a few moments ago

>>2011349
>>2011354
Those things pop up all the time near me for $0-$20

>>2010280
Figured I'd ask this here, since you mentioned you have KDL3. Can you or anyone else with Kirby's Dreamland 3 (or another game that uses pseudo-hires like Jurassic Park or Secret of Mana) verify something for me? When the game decides to run in pseudo-hires (used for transparency in this case), does the image get blurrier, sharper, or stay the same?

On emulators, to properly reproduce the effect, even on a CRT monitor, you need to introduce a certain level of blur in order to get the transparency effect working properly. I want to know if the same is done on real hardware, preferably using a good CRT with an RGB connection.

Do some TVs have a sharpening filter? I've noticed ringing artifacts on some when using composite input.

>>2011740
Yeah, some TV's have digital/3D comb filters that add a lot of artifacts

>my dad gets a big ass like 30" CRT TV
>put it in the living room
>occasionally the plug for cable TV goes off but its mostly working well
>a week later he throws it in the clean spot because "it consumes too much electricity" and "its too big"

>mfw he did the exact same thing 2 weeks after buying me an electric RC aircraft

>>2011740
Alot of late model Toshiba crts have the most awful sharpness thing that cant even be disabled

The picture is worthless as a result

>>2011307
>>2011263
>>2011148

>this cheap attempt at trolling

Aren't there better boards for this?

>>2011749
also, that CRT was a present from his best friend.
who the fucks throws presents from a 50 year old friendships to the trash

>>2011740

Yes, and sometimes you can't turn it off even if you use the on-screen menu.

I used to use composite video occasionally for watching cable television on my AM3501R, and it allowed you to turn off all the filters and it looked like CRAP. Time Warner and such really leaned on people's tv's cleaning it up for them.

>>2011749

Clean Spot?

>>2011764
yeah one of those places where people put their used washing machines and such
sorry for bad english

>>2011780
shit, that sounds brutal

you couldn't do jack about it?

>>2011795
not really. i found out a day later so...
hes the one paying the bills after all. once i get my own apartment this wont ever happen again

>>2010679
that thing looks badass, for ED/HD content. (pic related)

and it seems like it won't just convert everything to 1080i like some bad sony sets did.

I wonder what the real resolution of the tube is? (600 TVL?)

take some nice pics when you have the chance.

Got to hit up an arcade tonight.
Of course most of the monitors there either weren't maintained, dirty, the geometry was off, had purity errors, or it was about to die. Of course I stood around like an autist taking close up pictures when I could.

>>2011812
wow thanks moot

>>2011812
looks good, what game?

>>2011812
arcades suck around here, there's a bunch of mamecabs with neo geo games on glorious crts and they all have burn in, are old as shit and starting to die, or purity errors nobody cares to correct

needless to say, it's fucking depressing.

The point blank machine works well though! i always play a good hour worth of rounds on it everytime i go.
That, and windjammers. god bless that little game.

How about some burn-in?

>>2011816
Either Missile Command or Centipede

>>2011819
ask them if they'd let you fix that ?
you might even get a part-time job..

>>2011819
Anytime I'm at an arcade I just want to volunteer my time to see if I can fix their shit up for them.
I have a degaussing coil so I could at least fix their purity errors.

This Hydro Thunder machine was all green and flickering. Pretty much done for.

>>2011814
PVM fags blown the fuck out. Shadowmask is now the intended way to play retro games on a CRT. SEGA said so.

>>2011827

>>2011819
same thing around here.

the lame ass "barcade" has replaced all the screens with shitty lcds, and the one 20" CRT display they have is badly setup. (looks like RF)

a total prick runs the place. (pic not related)

>>2011825
The great things about arcade monitor chassis is that they are simple and easily serviceable. 75% of the issues common in arcade CRT's can be fixed with a bit of effort. Degaussing the tube, recapping the board and adjusting convergence and purity will usually bring it right back to a good picture.

The only situations where it's beyond hope is with heavy burn-in (Pac man and the like) or the set has been used for so long the phosphor is just that worn out.

Tubes can be rejuvenated to a degree, bringing back brightness and color, however.

>>2011828
lol

>dat mouth

>>2011831
Went to a barcade once.
There was a sweet Tempest cab.
The monitors there were horrid though. At least they were original cabs. I don't think I saw one LCD at that barcade.

The place tonight had a few MAME arcades with LCD screens. I didn't even bother with them. Didn't even have scanline generators.

>>2011823
oddly enough, the local arcade community takes care of the machines when they can. Cleaning controllers, updating PCBs, putting new content and all, and it works like 4chan moderation : we all do it for free

Thing is, we're only allowed near only certain things, especially rhythm games since that's what rakes in most of the cash. So, the ITG and IIDX machines are the ones we take most care of, even though the ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL 32" WIDESCREEN COMPONENT 100KG CRT DISPLAY that IIDX uses (pic related, it's even /vr/ related until 8th style huehuehue) has its red phospors already dying down. Understandable, since it's been on almost 24/7 since 2005, presumably. But it's still sad to see that blue tinge all over the screen, knowing the rounds you're playing may likely be the last ones on it.

>>2011825
our panic park has the same problem, but with a red tinge. fuck.

>>2011831
pricks are the only ones running arcades in italy, especially since they get so much cash with slot machines and just rely on those not caring about the actual video games.
Most of them are pirate copies anyways, there's a cab on some other arcade that lets you play super mario for 10 minutes a token. A zsnes version of super mario on a shitty pc with a dying crt.

It's basically niggerland funtown, and funtown is on fire.

>>2011834
rejuv's just last a few months tho

>>2011845
I wish to see a tempest cab before i die. I absolutely love that game, and would own a jaguar just to play 2000.

>>2011850
i'm retarded, the IIDX screen is VGA.
At least a friend of mine dumped 15 grand on a legit cab with a crt and can play on that though.

In other news, i may buy 4 monitors (1 pvm and 3 jvcs) for a total of 120 euro and around triple the kilograms. sheeit.

>>2011845
same thing over here, everything is chunky and poorly scaled / stretched to 16:9

>>2011850
I have Tempest 2000 on Saturn but after I played the real thing I literally couldn't go back to the console version. The cab's controls are so perfect.

>>2011854
>stretched
just why

>>2011846
Gotta find a setting on my phone I like.

>>2011859

>>2011860
Kept getting reflections in my pictures.

>>2011857
>just why

i think its because all these cheap LCD panels have no aspect ratio control.

Really sucks playing SFA3 like that, but it the only game in town if you want to play with live people.

>>2011864

>>2011867
that game was so strange, neat atmosphere.

It's crazy how none of those arcade CRTs show any semblance of scanlines. Makes one wonder if we're not all doing it wrong with all the PVM stuff. Even my cousin's 20" RCA shadow mask set has some visible scanlines, for fuck's sake.

>>2011871
Nigger what
Can you not see the scanlines
Do I have to do a shitty ms paint thing to point them out

>>2011872
He probably means huge Trinitron PVM Aperture Grille IN YOUR FACE scanlines.

I wish Tempest actually had a vector display. The graphics are already in that style

>>2011876
And I wish there was a Vectrex port.

>>2011876

I was thinking that.
I thought it wasn't a legit cab because of all the jaggies, i just assumed Tempest was a vector display because of the graphics.

>>2011872
If you're referring to the shots in >>2011868 and >>2011870, those are not actually scanlines. That cab uses a rotated CRT, so whenever a row of phosphors is not illuminated, you get a scanline-like effect. The letters in DEFEND are blue, and as such the red and green phosphors are not illuminated, hence the big black gaps.

On the other shots, like the KOF ones, they are almost invisible, only somewhat apparent on darker colors.

>>2011881
well, at least there's Tsunami/VIX.

>>2011871
I've always seen it as the fault of a very low res CRT to have no scan-lines.

notice how blurry those graphics look without them.

it might also be a 31hz only monitor, that game was released late, so that might be more like a pc crt.

who knows how that thing is setup.

>>2011880
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(video_game)
>Atari's Color-QuadraScan vector display technology

I don't know what to think now. The cab I played on seemed pretty legit.


>>2011886
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-VA4-0ux00
Wow I seriously need to fine one now.

>>2011892
Yeah, no way in hell that is a PC CRT, unless it's an early 90's model VGA monitor that uses slot mask or some shit.

>>2011892
Scanlines have nothing to do with the resolution of the tube.

It's the input signal that determines what sort of scanlines you get

>>2011898
I know that, but why would a NeoGeo game look like that >>2011867

on a 15hz monitor?

>>2011902
That picture didn't come through too well. Washed out most of the detail.

>>2011902
You mean 15kHz

And it could be for a number of reasons:

Camera settings are bad
Convergence is bad
Caps on monitor chassis is bad
Brightness is cranked way up to compensate for old chassis, making everything bloom and be blurry

etc etc. If this is an arcade machine it's probably just a badly set up monitor.

Was it running on a legit machine, or some emulator hardware pushing a 480i signal through some garbage tube?

also some monitors just don't show very obvious scanlines.

not a big deal, (for most pepole)

>>2011908
This was a legit cab.
A few of those pictures I was playing with my camera settings trying to quickly take photos.

>>2009795
I'll never understand why you people like playing on blurry pieces of shit

>>2011921
>>2011908

yeah, with a wacky picture it can be hard to see details.

this is from my 20L5 >>2010587

and so is this, but my camera is not setup correctly.

What does a 25khz monitor look like?

>>2011935
>implying a high quality CRT with RGB input is blurry

>>2011941
I don't think something like that really exists? Some PC monitor might scan to 15khz but it sounds like a weird resolution. It's nothing TV Related

>>2011941
It's around 384 active lines, progressive. You can try a mode like that and see how it looks.

>>2011950
Sega used them on their Model 2 and Model 3 hardware. "Tri-mode" arcade monitors sync 15, 24, and 31KHz modes. There are also 3CRT projectors for the dedicated cabinets (HotD, Wave Runner) that are exclusively 24KHz.

>>2011935
I don't think that's even a real tv.

but I did play games for most of my life though RF connectors.

sad because even when I was ten I knew things could look way better.

just never had access to a decent display.

>>2011956
D'oh, i forgot about those weird arcade resolutions.

And yeah, CRT projectors will typically sync to anything under the sun. High-end models will do anywhere from 15-180kHz horizontal

>>2011854
>>2011865

aspect ratio control is awesome.

>>2011881
did you take anymore shots at that arcade QuiZNo?

>your name makes me want a sandwich.

>>2011902
Don't know about you but I see them scanlines really well. It's just a common feature of shadow masks to really make them subtle. A thing you might want if you're going to play close to the screen. When phosphors are really bright, scanlines are partially covered by the feedback light. When things get a little darker (as in this pic) you start noticing intervals. It's not really the case to jump the gun and go assuming things like emulator hardware or 480i signals.

>>2012032
Thing is, newer shadow mask TVs have more noticeable lines than older ones for some reason.

>>2012063
Well, the size could also matter. I have a 14" one from 1996 and it's the exact same as that pic, then I got one 28" and I notice scan lines like night and day. Also it's really simple to make out if a signal is interlaced or not, even when it's not terribly flicky. Just naturally scroll down your eyes on the screen, you'll sync to the refresh rate and start seeing black lines going down.

How did the term "scanlines" come about?
From my understanding, the term "scanlines" is actually incorrect when refereed to black lines that are sought after by "retro gamers".

Scanlines are the frames on the phosphor that is projected by the electron gun. So if you for example have 600 horizontal lines of resolution on your screen you would be getting 600 scanned lines of data displaying (Assuming progressive input)
If there is a blank frame there, that would mean the electron gun has not scanned that frame so the term "scanline" is wrong?
I would assume the non existent intervals could be called "blank frames"
But since they are technically lines, I suppose "blank lines" would be correct as well.

How does the thickness of the electron gun come into this? That is the only other thing aside from input signal that determines the verticle space between data. (On an aperture grille)

Also I was looking at some monitors from a sony line, and the lower two models have an "AG" pitch of 0.30 whilst the higher end model I noticed has an AG pitch of 0.25
Would this mean you can fit more horizontal resolution on the screen? And would light bleed from the closer grille pitch effect the image quality at all on a monitor?

Yay input lag

I would hate having to try playing from the output of the DVD recorder. Thank god for video out.

I'd test it with 240p Suite to get an actual number, but the copy I have for Dreamcast is out of date. Maybe I'll burn a new one or connect the Wii up to it later.

>>2012032

Shit like this is probably why I need to wear glasses as an adult

>>2011998
No that's all I got.
Many of the monitors were a mess anyway.
There was a Street Fighter II cab that looked decent. I wanted to get a shot but people were playing on it.

>>2012032
I see what mean, but i'm not a big fan of that look.

I'm sure it would look way better in person though.

pic related,

>>2012109
>i'll never understand jojo

whats everybody playing lately?

I'm messing around with some Doujin games.

>>2012104

AG pitch is the distance between the centers of the aperture grille wires.

Lower AG pitch = sharper image.
TVL is what determines the horizontal resolution of a tube. However, AG pitch is related to the size of the tube.

Example, a 14" 800 TVL tube will have a lower AG pitch than a 20" 800 TVL tube. Same resolution, different sized Aperture grille

>>2012182
When you say centres, does this mean the wires will be manufactured to be thinner, or will the space between them be thinner?

>>2012252
Ah apologies, realized it affects the wires thickness after re-reading your post

>>2011867
>>2011869
I know this is Athena but what exact game is this? Athena wasn't for the Neo-Geo

>>2012260
its from SNK vs. Capcom: SVC Chaos

>>2012289
What a godawful game.

It figures an SNK game with lame gameplay actually has a good translation.

>>2012324
>What a godawful game.

Athena? A bit hard to control, but not that bad imo.

>>2012328
No, SNK vs. Capcom: SVC Chaos.

>>2012336

Oh, I didn't play to this game so I can't tell.

>>2012257

IT doesn't really affect the wire's thickness, it affects the space between the wires.

I worded that wrong

>>2012339
Not the same anon, but I never understood the hate for SvC Chaos. Then again, I'm not much of a tourneyfag.

>>2012385
Just got this yesterday.

>>2012397
nice get!

how do you have it hooked up?

>>2012402
It is wii through component. I need to get my snes from my parents' house and then hook that up via RGB.

>spend 2 hours recording to test DVD recorder's high quality mode
>disc slips and now refuses to finalize
Shit
Isobuster saved the day though.
It seems that it was the EP mode making it record in 240p. XP records as 720x480. The quality is really nice, even if webm's compression shits on it.

/not crt

>>2012397
Nice. I'd love to get my hands on a L5. How much it run ya?

>>2012435
100. Barely used according to the owner. Is there a way to check run time on it?

>>2012289
>>2012324
>>2012328
>>2012336
>>2012339
>>2012385

Personally I thought the game was pretty sweet, the control and timing (and A.I) are a little off compared to some older games.
But it really is a fan service game, and it’s fun to see Capcom characters on NeoGeo hardware.

I don’t think the game ever really had its own cab or wide arcade release. (Can’t find any good pics of it in an arcade).
First time I ever played it was on Ps2, I think it’s a strange 480i port and not real 240p. did not look that good visually. (I heard game had some resolution disparity, on a real Neo its 304x224, not the usual 320×224)

I would really like to see SNK get another crack at something like this with the King of Fighters XIII engine. But I have a really bad feeling we won’t see another game in that style for a long time if ever. Considering how much of a failure XIII was sales wise. XII was a bad idea that burned a lot of goodwill before XIII came out.

A great idea with somewhat poor execution. (the usual for games made in japan these days).

>>2012441
>Is there a way to check run time on it?
I think that's really only available on BVMs. I could very easily be wrong though.

>>2012435
how did you recorded this?

>>2012442
Earthquake, Hugo and two Kens

many way more interesting and fun characters could have filled those slots.

Also should have had Marco, instead of that dumb martian.

>>2012435
>making it record in 240p

I thought GGX was a 480p game?

>>2012451
Panasonic DMR ES25 DVD recorder, over S-Video.

These are from the same recorder, same signal, in EP mode.

>>2012454
are you running that SF3 in 240p mode?

To access the 240p mode in Dreamcast games, a few games ask if you'd like to start the game in a "progressive" mode (Bangai-O) and I've read that a the Capcom Dreamcast games can be forced into a 240p mode by holding Start+L (or Start+Z on the Arcade Stick) when you turn the system on, before the Capcom logo appears. As far as I know, these are the only Dreamcast games that support native 240p

Bangai-O
Black Matrix A/D
Gunbird 2
Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure
King of Fighters Dream Match 1999
Last Blade 2: Final Edition
Marvel vs Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes
Princess Maker Collection
Street Fighter 3: Third Strike - This game can do 240p, 480i and 480p
Street Fighter 3: Double Impact
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Twinkle Star Sprites

>>2012454

>>2012453
No VGA box, and the recorder will only accept up to S-Video so 480i is the best it can be fed. Which is what that video is a recording of. That's also been deinterlaced in XMedia Recode.

I have the videos of GGX and Ikaruga uploading to youtube just for the hell of it; They won't be done for a little bit though.

>>2012457
I have a feeling I've been fed this copy and paste bit before.
Yes it's running in 240p. I also recorded that in XP mode; Not really sure whether I actually prefer it from the lower res EP one.

>>2012460
yeah I re-posted that from retrorgb.

still a nice tip that most people don't know about. (I think)

>>2012454
is the motion blur on this from the deinterlacing?

>>2012385

Its mainly camcom fans, who have never played any SNK fighters who hate it. SVC Chaos is one of my favorite games honestly.

>>2012460
I keep wanting to hook my old Saturn up to my PVM, but its only S-Video.

how does it look on yours?

>>2012463
I didn't up til recently, I suppose so. Sorry if I came off as rude.

>motion blur from interlacing
Only if the recorder itself applied it. That's straight from the disc image.
More than likely it's from being turned into a webm.

>>2012467
I haven't had a working Saturn in over a decade; This is all from the Dreamcast. Assuming the video quality of the Saturn is anything like the DC, it should look pretty damn great.

>>2012447
I'll look it up, but thanks anyways.

>>2012473
oh, that's cool. some games have eve more options.

240p mode for scanlines (flawless) - Hold the Start button + L button until the Capcom logo appears on the screen.

240p mode for scanlines + anti-flicker/sprite filter - Hold the Start button + Y button until the Capcom logo appears on the screen.

480i screen, no scanlines + anti-flicker/sprite filter - Normal Bootup


Note: some sites state to Hold the Start button + X button until the Capcom logo appears on the screen, to get option #3. However this is the standard bootup mode for the game, so I don't see why the code is even necessary. You can't get back to the Capcom screen after already booting into the game, so switching back to 480i resolution after you are in 240p is not possible to the best of my knowledge. So, as far as I can tell pressing Start + X does absolutly nothing.

>>2012473
>This is all from the Dreamcast.

ah, just realized that webm was from Sonic Adventure and not really from nights.

totally faked me out.

>>2012480
Sorry about that.

Either way, S-Video can look really nice so I'd definitely try it out.

>>2012476
I've read the post all this is from before, thank you though.

And now Isobuster doesn't think it's registered so I can't even get a clean mpg of the 240p recordings. Eh, I'll figure it out in the morning, too late for all this.

Has anybody tried a slg HD with 480p via 6th gen console?

>>2012493
I figured as much lol,

I've only used ISO buster to fix bad disc rips

is it still being supported?

>>2012498
I've never seen an SLG with truly dark scan-lines. allways just some tinted overla.

And the GGX video is finished. still all interlaced though; What would be a proper way of deinterlacing it that wouldn't look like shit? I know fuck all when it comes to video editing. Ikaruga and Third Strike's videos should pop up in the same playlist when they're done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MWDPNqQP10&index=1&list=PLa29zqMewYFIPd5KIQG2VmQ02ZIPcomDQ

>>2012503
>is it still being supported?
As in still being updated? The latest version is supposedly from this August, so I would assume so.

>>2012512
>What would be a proper way of deinterlacing it that wouldn't look like shit?
There's nothing better than QTGMC with avisynth but that's for film stuff where half the lines have been discarded entirely.
Throw me a small clip of the source so I can check.

>>2010585

Thanks!

>>2010731

No, I wasn't really concerned about the resolution. It was more of a comparison of how the colours were rendering. Quake can't run at 1680x1060.

>nobody posts pictures of their scanlines as much as they used to

>>2012620

And it's good thing, it's boring at the end to see people posting them, and newfags end up thinking that CRTs are only used because MUH SCANLINES.

How many hours for a BVM is considered a lot?
My BVM says it has 46,032 hours.

>>2012829
that's quite a lot, but i think that kind of hours is expected from machinery built to withstand such usage

if you do some quick math, it's 5 years of continuous usage. There's still quite some life left in him.

also POSTING ITT WITH MY NEW E215 MULTISCAN, this thing owns

Hey /vr/

Just got a Dell D1626HT for 3.5 €

How lucky have i been? This baby looks like a beast

also, can i use BCN to RCA for connecting my consoles to it? Seems like a given.

>>2009836
why is an HD CRT a bad option? I thought that this was the goal. Or am I misinterpreting the meaning of HD CRT? My understanding of one is that it has Component inputs on the back.

>>2013193

A CRT TV or monitor doesn't need to be "HD" to have component or RGB inputs. An HD CRT might have these kind of inputs, but it will be in most cases as good at displaying a 240p video signal as your LCD HDTV, and that's exactly what we DON'T want to happen when we get CRTs.

>>2013193

A HD CRT typically refers to a CRT TV with support for HD resolutions. However, almost all HD CRTs pass low resolution video (240p/480i) through a scaler to 480p or higher, which eliminates several big advantages of CRTs such as minimal input lag and scanlines.

>>2012620

>>2013273

>>2012620
90% of the pics look like shit

Taking pics of a 1995 bullshit rca tv running a vhs copy of ranma isnt very appealing

>>2013202
Oh, okay. I see what you mean. I guess I forgot that having component didn't necessarily mean 720i or higher.

So, are good /vr/ tvs also able to display 480p? Or is that too far?

>>2013391

I think certain high end monitors can go anywhere from 480i to 1080i, but they're uncommon. As far as consumer TVs go, you probably won't find something which "properly" handles 240p/480i content and 480p content.
I struck lucky with an EDTV which does display 240p/480i and 480p correctly, but introduces some lag because it scans the former two in an odd fashion. I mainly use that display for 6th gen and Wii so it suits me just fine.

>>2013330
hell you talking about bro? that monitor was made in 2005.

>>2010315

(and its a sony)

And if you don’t like ranma, you must be dead inside.

>>2012620
>>2010323
I took a bunch here >>2010323

and >>2010343

and here >>2010528

>>2013184
looks awesome!

service manual here.

https://www.manualowl.com/p/Dell/D1626HT/Manual/3384

>>2013184
>can i use BCN to RCA for connecting my consoles to it? Seems like a given.

I don't think it can use component video, manual says analog RGB on the BNC side.

but you could probably transcode very easily.

or you might be a PAL bro and just use RGB SCART to BNC

>>2012460
I use Xilisoft Video Converter Ultimate

because it has GPU encode and decode.

what kind of pc are you using for the processing?

>>2013481
>Horizontal 30 to 107 kHz

>>2013184
>>2013485
15khz video to 31khz monitor = does not work.
You will need a linedoubler for this.

Should I not use a degaussing coil in the same room as my computer?

>>2013519
Is your computer made of plastic only or open?

>>2013519
I would do it in another room personally

magnetic fields be cray cray.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-PVM-1953ST-19-034-Trinitron-Color-Video-Monitor-/361083177157?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item54123c08c5&nma=true&si=4dawR9I4q8yw91iLz4ITcnDUEqw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

for $109 total do i? got him to accept $60

>>2013549
Go for it.
That's the best price for a 20" shipped I've seen.

>>2013516
I thought he was talking about newer game systems. (dreamcast era and later)

because they operate at 31khz

>>2012620

>>2013558

>>2013485
Yup. PAL region bro.SCART to BCN it is, then.

Maybe i'd need directly a componet to VGA device? The idea is connecting a Wii here

>>2013516
I'm getting lost here ·____. So, for a completly tech ignorant, let's say i want to connect a console that produces a progressive signal (such as a Wii) can i? I'm pretty out of space so i don't have too much options.

>>2013481
Thanks mate!

>>2013549
okay, gonna go for it then

it'll be my first PVM

>>2013590
>let's say i want to connect a console that produces a progressive signal (such as a Wii) can i?
I'm sure that a PAL Wii does not wants to output progressive RGB with normal SCART cables.
Either attempt a hacked cable for the Wii with a sync separator or get a component cable for the Wii with transcoder.

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:wii_multi_av_pinout
>If RGB is available, VGA should also be, since VGA is just non-interlaced (progressive) RGB. The system is obviously capable of VGA-resolution output, the trick will be enabling RGB & non-interlaced at the same time.
>Data Line 2: 0V = 59.94i / 60i ; 5V = 59.94p / 60p
>MODE pins: On PAL systems the default output is RGB + composite, on NTSC the default is S-video + composite. With pins 8 and 10 shorted, systems from both territories will switch to component video.

>I'm pretty out of space so i don't have too much options.
For some reason i get a little mad when i hear this in a CRT related discussion.

Do you guys know any good places to find TV trolleys appropriate for PVM use? Steel would be preferable.

What is the best way for a Eurpoor to play NTSC games on an American TV? WIll I need special adapters?

>>2013503
i5 2500k @3.3 and a amd 6950 flashed to 6970 bios.

>>2013727
PVM or go home.

>>2013590
>>2013629

PAL Wii's "do" support RGB.

here is a snip from RetroRGB.

>>2013727
>NTSC games on an American TV

American TVs are NTSC, if you have a

American TV

American Console

American Region Games

everything should work fine.

>>2013583
that's an NDS game runing on an emulator, right?

how did you get scan-lines on it?

>>2013562
I can here the soundtrack just by looking at this pic.

those creepy laughing marionettes.

>>2013273
what resolution is that.

>>2013193
you want an HD crt that has multiple scan rates.

15khz - 240p

31khz - 480i/480p

45kHz - 720p

33.75kHz - 1080i

some sets can do this, but most others just convert everything to one resolution. some crap set just make everything 1080i and that sucks.

>>2013562
I can hear the soundtrack just by looking at this pic.

those creepy laughing marionettes.

(is that the Saturn or PsOne version)

>>2013521
I think most computers are made of plastic.

>>2012915
>E215 MULTISCAN

17" sony, right?

its not the widescreen one is it?

>>2013917
Pretty sure he's doing the superwide-480p-with-scanlines method on a PC CRT monitor.

>>2013929
480i is 15KHz.

>>2013978
can you give me more details?

how does it work?

>>2013983
http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Display_FAQ#240p.2F480i_Emulation_on_a_CRT_Monitor

>>2013981
you're right, i got it mixed up.

it should be...

15khz - 240p/480i

31khz - 480p

33.75kHz - 1080i

45kHz - 720p


and I believe pal 15khz sets could do 576i