/vr/ - Retro Games

I guess I better post some /vr/ to keep this thread relevant.

RGB on my Mitsubishi Megaview XC-3717C

>>1989529

Real hardware, yes?
How does dithering look? I think the waterfalls in Sanic use that.

post your fucking crts with /vr/ on it you fags

that means you, guy with the ikegami monitor. let's see that shadow mask

also I'M FINALLY GETTING MY TRINITRON PC MONITOR THIS WEEK, can't wait to play some comfy myst and sid meier stuff on that shit

>>1989535
side note: it also comes with a PCI matrox millennium i bought for 15 bucks from the same guy, did i do good? i know it does 15KHz, but does it make old vidya work better? i know it was powerful as heck back then

>>1989529
>Megaview XC-3717C

what does the back look like?


>also, infographic

>>1989546
oh, right, that reminds me
>remember to buy RCA to BNC adapters if you have a PVM and RCA leads in your composite/component cable
>adapters from SCART/BNC exist too

>>1989532
Real hardware. The waterfalls look weird just like they do on most RGB setups.

>>1989535
Mega man X collection running at 240p from a PS2 over component.

>>1989562
>Forgot picture
>I have never forgot picture before

Feels dumb

>>1989562

I'd love to see how it looks on composite and over RGB.

Would love to have a Mitsubishi AM-4201R

My toshiba crt makes a loud high pitched noise when running low res non interlaced video, like from a ps1. But after about 20-30 minutes the sound goes away when the set warms up.
??

>>1989569

>>1989570
yep, my pvm 20m4u also does that.

>>1989535

>>1989570
My NEC does this on 480p. Very loudly. Starts about 5 minutes in, then stops after a minute. I assume it's fine.

>>1989569
>>1989572

That's a fantastic set you have here. Man that fine little ass full of BNC ports. Enjoy it as much as you can anon.
Also, nice shoes.

not sure what model this is, anyone know?

>>1989578
What causes the ""wavy"" looking verticle lines?

>>1989583
>forgot pic, d'oh

>>1989587
mitsubishi megaview. not sure the size

>>1989570
normal CRT operation does that a lot

it's normal, and embrace it because once you get older you won't be able to hear it.

>>1989565
composite

>>1989594

I was referring to the dithered waterfalls. My mistake!

>>1989579
would have been funnier if you had used "green version"

>>1988604
>800 TVL means you can resolve 800 horizontal lines
TVL measures horizontal resolution, meaning it counts the number of vertical lines.

>>1989586
Moiré effect.
Camera resolution isn't good enough to capture the whole beauty of an 24" Trinitron with about 1000 LoHR.
The camera is also old as fuck, a Sony Ericsson K800i which rarely captures a CRT without the dark horizontal areas like pic related.

>>1989594
RGB

>>1989596
oh, sorry

What do you want to see, composite or RGB? I can provide the composite since I made some pictures but not RGB. You'll just want to look at an emulator screen since it's the same as RGB.

>>1989606

Oh, my mistake. I thought the RGB was yours.
If you have S-Video instead that's fine, I just want to get a good idea of how composite affects dithering.

are there any universal component cables I could get that aren't shit? And if not, are there any ones that would at least work for like, the SNES/N64/GC trio?

So for monitors that have 75/high ohm switches next to each of the BNC connectors, what is the downside of turning the RGB ones to "high" to get a more colorful picture? Assuming one turns the brightness and contrast far down to compensate.

I already know my answer, what about you guys?

>>1989612

>>1989596
Sorry for the poor quality, I don't have a proper camera.

>>1989605
I think you can get the black areas out of the way by syncing the camera refresh rate with the one of the TV.

>>1989608
Genesis doesn't do S-Video, I could make RGB pictures (of Aquatic Ruin since it's probably what you're after) but I just can't do it right now. If you can wait an hour I'll get the pictures, although someone else might just do it for you.

If you want to know how dithering is affected, the composite encoder does a horizontal blur (averaging pixel after pixel). Like RGBvalues+RGBvalues/2 for the whole screen, starting from the first column after the border.

>>1989616
actually pretty noice, i love that game

>>1989609

You can find YPbPr cables which plug into a Wii, PS2, PS3 and Xbox 360 fairly easily, but they tend to be cheap and filled with noise.
The N64 doesn't do RGB natively though I think the SNES might. The Gamecube also supports RGB SCART, but if you want 480p you'll need YPbPr cables. These are pretty pricey due to never being released to stores, and not all Gamecubes support it. You'll know if yours does since it'll have a digital out port marked on the back.

>>1989617

It's not a problem, you've done plenty.

>>1989617
if you had a 32x, you could get rid of that rainbow banding (by using that output instead)

>>1989624
>though I think the SNES might

Yes it does.

>>1989612
>>1989616

>>1989609
SNES & N64 don't do component, and the GCN component cable is highly proprietary. I have also never seen anything with 2 old multi-out and 1 new digital a/v plugs, that would be really unusual.

>>1989612
>>1989616
>>1989629

>>1989631

The SNES don't do component, but it does RGB though.

>>1989629

that's fucking baller, it looks really good anon, Imma look into that

>>1989636
question is about universal component cables

>>1989637
fo shizzle my nizzle.

(but it only works with composite video out, for now)

>>1989624
>The Gamecube also supports RGB SCART
Only the PAL version. To get anything better than S-Video out of an NTSC GC, you need the component cables.

>>1989631
>and the GCN component cable is highly proprietary
Someone recently figured it out actually. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51450

>>1989637
It's a GBA clone using the SNES as a pass through for A/V and inputs. You'd probably be better off with a GBPlayer.

>>1989626
It's not rainbow banding, but the poor camera interpolating the shadow mask.

>>1989648

It doesn't even look like it uses the SNES as a passthrough for A/V.

>>1989648
>Someone recently figured it out actually
I know about that, but that doesn't mean that the cable isn't highly proprietary or that it can be found on a universal component cable.

>>1989649
I was assuming that cable to the side is for extra power. If it's not, what the hell is the point of turning it into a cart?

>>1989650
True enough.

>>1989648

those cost a good bit of money don't they?

also, is there any to force the Wii to output 240p for games that aren't VC? there's a few WiiWare games I'd like to use it with, this one in particular.

>>1989636
>>1989648
Wait a second, wasn't the component circuitry embedded IN the cable as opposed to the console itself? That's why it was pricey, right? How does it take the RGB signal to modulate the sync on green? There must be pins set aside for that reason, in which you could get RGBs. And I don't see why component wouldn't work on the SNES too, since as I mentioned the GC doesn't also display component by its own.

>>1989659

The component cable actually contained a DAC, hence why the output was labelled digital out.

>>1989610
It disables the termination for the purpose to daisy chain it to another monitor without needing a distribution amp.
>what is the downside of turning the RGB ones to "high" to get a more colorful picture?
It could cause the signal to get way to high depending on the video output circuits of the console/computer and signal reflection can also be caused by not having a proper termination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_termination

You better terminate it. And set your brightness, saturation and contrast after the SMPTE bars.

>>1989617
>think you can get the black areas out of the way by syncing the camera refresh rate with the one of the TV.
This is correct. But how to connect the VSync to the camera?
It sometimes syncs up with the CRT, i just take like 5-20 pics until i get one that looks hopefully good.

>>1989661
Couldn't people make an HDMI cable from that?

>>1989664

In theory, yes.

I've also heard reports that the Gamecube outputs a much better Component signal than BC Wiis.

>>1989658
>also, is there any to force the Wii to output 240p for games that aren't VC? there's a few WiiWare games I'd like to use it with, this one in particular.
None that I know of. I know the one game everyone always complains about being locked to 480i, and that's Mega Man 9.

Makes getting good photos of it a real chore at times.

>>1989658
>those cost a good bit of money don't they?
The component cable or the GBPlayer?

The former is yes; Very yes.

The latter is not. The actual hardware for the GBPlayer can be had quite cheaply; Finding a boot disc for it on the other hand can get a bit pricey. I hear you can use a SD Gecko/GC SD adapter to boot it without it, but I can't confirm.
I actually need to get one of those soon so I can force 240p on the GBPlayer.

>>1989667
it's not really that much better, the slight blur can be calibrated out on the monitor end

GameCube backwards compatibility on the Wii is still a better option for most people if you want the highest quality signal for those games and don't want to pay $300 for a cable

>>1989670

I'll get whatever lets me output 240p with game boy games, GB/GBC/GBA.

also of some importance, the games play right I assume? like, the super game boy played the games at a slightly inaccurate speed, nothing like that right?

>>1989678
>the super game boy played the games at a slightly inaccurate speed
You can fix that manually, or buy a SGB2.

>the games play right I assume?
It's a GBA bolted to the bottom of a GC. Everything plays exactly the way it would on an actual Game Boy Advance.

>>1989658
240p converter box like the Extron super emotia or the MIMO genius 2 would be the easiest way to do it with real hhardware

otherwise just emulate the Wii and play those titles from the PC forced out at 240p on your display of choice.

>>1989678
>the super game boy played the games at a slightly inaccurate speed
Yes, but the SGB2 has it's own oscillator which is 5x times the original crystal used in the real Gameboy.
I tell you the numbers:
Real GB: 59,72750057hz
SGB1 on PAL: 60,60996582hz (1,4774857% faster)
SGB1 on NTSC: 61,08245044hz (2,2685528% faster)

>>1989687

the problem with the SGB2 is uh, I don't have a jap SNES

>>1989648
that looks like a PVM, is that output from a PlayStation 2 over component?

Looks very sharp, I like it.

>>1989691
Chisel out the plastic bits in the cart slot. You can now play japanese carts.

>>1989693
>is that output from a PlayStation 2 over component?
Wii over component

>>1989667
There are at least two sets of screenshots comparing GCN component output to Wii BC, and it's definitely true. The first set is inconclusive, but the second set really makes it obvious. Subtle, but really obvious in the details.

If you go looking for the second set (I don't remember where I saw it), it's a set of stills of the Wind Waker title screen.

>>1989624
some companies make decent component cables for the Wii, the original Nintendo cables or the monster brand cables work just fine

for Playstations I would just use original branded cables. component output looks really good with them

and with most of Microsoft systems can't you just use the breakout box and use your own cables?

>>1989696
how the hell are you playing Lunar 2 on a Wii?

>>1989704
Genesis Plus GX plays Sega CD games relatively well.

>>1989706
are you using a real disc? Or an iso?

and what do you mean by, "relatively" is the performance bad in spots with redbook audio?

>>1989709
Lunar 2 has no red book audio besides the bonus tracks that don't play in-game. Everything is streamed PCM. Lunar 1 is the one where everything is red book.

composite from a NES on a amdek color-I monitor with a 260(H)x300(V) resolution

originally used with an Apple II computer.

>>1989709
Well, I haven't played much, but the audio was a bit crackly at times. I think other games fared better though. I'll go back and check that right now if you'd like.

>are you using a real disc? Or an iso?
Iso loaded from a USB flashdrive. It very well could have been the flash drive, as it had given me trouble with loading GC isos in the past. Need to get around to transferring all of my roms/Isos to my external.

>>1989714
Perhaps that was the problem. I didn't play much of the games; The pictures were requests by an anon on /v/.

>>1989670
>locked to 480i, and that's Mega Man 9

I believe the other console versions can output it in progressive

Does mega man 10 also have the same issue On wii?

>>1989723

Progressive?
480p? Because as far as I'm aware, the 360 and PS3 don't do 240p.

>>1989717
bit further away

>>1989728
what other games do you have besides punch out?

It does look good.

>>1989730
give me a moment to find a colorful one.

>>1989723
Not sure, but I wouldn't be all that surprised if it did.

>>1989726
most likely 480p, and perhaps 1080p

those systems could theoretically output 240p just fine, but no one's bothered to modify anything to do it.

Older ps3's in particular could very easily output 240p video with the internal emotion engine GPU they eventually got rid of for costs reasons.

>>1989738

That's a shame.

Anyway, I just tried out Megaman 10 and it's in 480i.

>>1989730
freshly made.

>>1989743
that looks pretty groovy.

>>1989743
was that monitor actually made in 1984?

Seem way too good for something that old

>>1989748
it was made in 1984 however they were sold starting in 1982

>>1989741
480i on the Wii Right?

technically the game isn't a virtual console title, its whatever Nintendo's equivalent of Xbox Live Arcade games were.

I don't believe those BS stories Capcom told about it being developed with Famicom dev kits

Hey /vr/ riddle me this: I have a PAL60 CRT (pic related) and it plays my SNES and SFC in colour using a RGB cable with signal one way. Yet when I use this cable on my NTSC GameCube there's sound and no picture. Any ideas?

>>1989718
Just loaded up Silver Star and it was clear as ever.
Eternal Blue is not only distorted but also has a weird rhythmic buzzing noise to it.

Keio Flying Squadron and Popful Mail are also both clear as could be.

I suppose it could just be a bad iso. Let me try it out in Fusion.

>>1989753
WiiWare

>>1989749
is it a 13 inch monitor?

>>1989754

NTSC gamecubes can't output RGB.

>>1989753

If only there were some mod.

>>1989759
i think so

>>1989754
Fuck sake, posted on my phone hence horizontal. More info: If the signal is switched the other way my SNES/SFC will be in Black/White.

If i change it the other way on my Gamecube, there will be picture but in Black/White.

Curious as to why SNES/SFC can display in colour and b/w and Gamecube can't.

It did just occur to me that my Gamecube is japanese and that the pins they use are different or something?

>>1989754
could be the pinouts on your Gamecube, have you tried another cable?

>>1989762
Ahh okay, well that explains it. Thanks anyway!

>>1989765

It's possible. Japan uses a connector shaped just like SCART but some of the pins are transposed.

>>1989757
Nope, audio sounds fine in fusion.

Weird.

I'm looking for new crt, as my old ones audio died.
I'm from Europe, but need 60hz because i'm getting my first ntsc-j machine, as for size 24-28" would be good. Any recommendations?

>>1989769

If you want, you could hunt down a BC Wii. All of them support RGB SCART, but you need to need to use Gecko OS or your backup loader to force NTSC games to output PAL60 instead of NTSC or else the picture will be intensely red-tinted. Some games crash when forcing video mode but Milestone shmups are the only ones I've come across.

>>1989748
my camera didn't want to behave but i took a picture of the back panel.

>>1989757
yeah that sounds like a bad ripper some kind of weird incompatibility error

have you tried any of them on retroarch?

>>1989775

Remember that if you're planning on using composite or s-video the display must also support NTSC, since the colour encoding is different there to PAL60

I've been searching craigslist for over a month trying to get a hold of just about any CRT TV to emulate retro from my Wii. Every time the person flaked or gave it away to someone else before I could get there.

Finally I got something. She's not too pretty, the placement of the screen on the inside seems off center, and there's only S-Video. But now I can finally emulate genesis on something other than my shitty LCD.

>>1989768
>>1989771
It could likely be the case. I tried the cable on my HDTV and it was the same thing. HD obviously being actual 60hz. So I guess it's a cable thing and not a TV thing.

The plot thickens with the fact that my console is JP but it's modded for NTSC-U. So I don't know if that will make a difference. I doubt it but meh.

Thanks guys.

>>1989673
No doubt, Wii BC is definitely a fair compromise for GCN games. Some people can't even notice the extra blur filtering on the Wii so it's good enough for them.

>>1989782
Was just about to try just that.

Silpheed also seems slightly distorted, but this case seems to be more along the lines of not being able to play at full speed.

>>1989785
nice, what model?

(is that S-Video output from the Wii?)

>>1989794
>>1989794
well, Sega CD is a bit more powerful than Genesis, so could just be that the Wii isn't really powerful enough for some games. How does the 32x fair?

>>1989790
It's defo a cable thing but i tried it on my NTSC-U Gamecube and it's the same thing. I dunno what the deal is.

>>1989779
that's pretty cool, how's the sound quality?

>>1989815

It's probably down to NTSC consoles in general not supporting RGB, as said earlire.

>>1989815
perhaps you should give an s-video cable a try?

>>1989818
it is mono but decent. i made a youtube video of it in action a few years back using f-zero gx. the audio is captured using a lifecam cinema webcam

http://youtu.be/bStEs-JhHog?list=UUfabxJWNrKMvPKTvLou7vbA

>>1989819
technically they do, but you probably need a modified version of the D terminal cable used in Japan to make it work

Out of interest, can televisions which typically only support RF or Composite be modified for better signals such as S-Video?
It's a bad idea but is it possible?

>>1989825
that's pretty cool, how much did you pay for it?

how did you find something like that good condition?

>>1989658
>also, is there any to force the Wii to output 240p for games that aren't VC?

Aren't you guys all about playing games the way they were originally intended? Wouldn't forcing 240p be contrary to that philosophy?

>>1989795
RCA F20TF10

It is S-video from the wii.

>>1989832
I know I've seen people wire in RGB and component ports into TVs that didn't originally support them.

you usually have to have the schematics to the TV, but have a bit of electrical and soldering knowledge.

but it is very possible

>>1989839

Most of the time, but the fact remains that Megaman 9 and 10 at 480i looks like shit.

>>1989643
Unless you don't have a GameCube and won't get one, what gives this an edge over the GBPlayer?

>>1989839

If that were true, RGB mods for consoles wouldn't exist.

>>1989837
about 12-14 years back a buddy of mine was friends with the local schools computer tech and received a apple II with this monitor from him as the ram or something burned up on the computer, after he fiddled with the computer (see: broke worse) i received the monitor for free and kept it ever since.

>>1989839
264

Eh, thoes games use sprite art that was designed for a 240p resolution. the developers were just lazyand only supported for a 480i because it was easy and they didn't have to think about supporting multiple video modes, because many HD TVs will not display 240 p signals

>>1989854
that's why later Virtual Console titles only supported 480i

because of all the complaints from HDTV owners not able to run games.

>>1989860
>>1989854

Are they really so incompetent so as to not include an option?

>>1989854
> thoes games use sprite art that was designed for a 240p resolution
citation needed

>because many HD TVs will not display 240 p signals

So a game made in an era where HDTVs were commonplace omitted 240p signal because HDTVs don't support it... but the game was designed for a 240p resolution. I follow.

>>1989849
I'm glad we agree that the philosophies people swear by and try to impress upon others are circumstantial at best.

>>1989862
it's not really about and competence probably, it's more likely they just don't have any faith in their customers to understand video modes

most of the stuff is aimed at children who probably don't even have a clue about any of the stuff we talked about on this thread

>>1989860
>later Virtual Console titles only supported 480i

Is there a list of which ones did this?

>>1989864

Even PS2 babbies got presented with video mode and video test options with most big PAL releases.

>>1989865
comix zone, is 480i

But can be reverted to 240p with the menu trick

>>1989865
I don't think there's an official list, you kind of just have to look at the when they're running

>>1989867
they were probably mostly thinking about Japanese and Western American players when they make their decisions

>>1989874

As always, Europe is irrelevant ;_;
At least we had SCART.

>>1989863
you don't need a citation, just use your eyes.

If you can't tell that the Mega Man 9 sprite is the exact same sprite as Mega Man on new.

I don't really know how to help you.

>>1989880
meant to type out NES but whatever, you know how crappy these tablet keyboards are.

>>1989783
Composite to scart adapter isn't enough?

>>1989905

Nope. I have two British CRT TVs and both support PAL and PAL60, while only one supports NTSC.
Those SCART blocks are only passive, there's no electronics inside and they simply connect pins together.

>>1989785
>>1989840

cool, does it also have component input?

>>1989916
doesn't look like it,

>>1989909
Damn, need to start look hard for one which would support NTSC. Do you know if there's any notes in the TV itself if it supports NTSC?

>>1989880
I've been talking about Castlevania Adventure Rebirth, not Megaman.

>>1989928

I don't have a clue. You might be able to find it in the manual. I just know because I've tested various video settings from my Wii.

Most retro consoles, if capable of running NTSC games on PAL consoles at correct framerate/resolution, tend to output PAL60 instead of NTSC.
S-Video distinguishes between PAL60 and NTSC too, but RGB and YPbPr don't.

>>1989936
they don't look like HiRes sprites to me, so I doubt the game was optimized for 480i/p

It would be nice to see it at various resolutions on a crt, if I get some time later I could do that.

>>1989969
when I play it on my Wii at home, (on a Sony)

It looks like a 240p game that was scaled to 480p and then interlaced down to 480i.

>>1989969
>>1989982

and some of the sprites look ripped from other games. did whyforward really do this? (seems more like a tose game)

>>1989993
Looks like "M2" was the dev

>Gradius ReBirth

>Contra ReBirth

>Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth

>>1989969
>>1989982
>>1989993
Yeah, the clarity of those images are just /unbearable./

>>1989848
Nothing, GBPlayer is better.

>>1989647
There is rainbow banding in the waterfalls using composite, though. Supposedly the 32X's composite output is markedly better, so that doesn't happen.

>>1990012

Does it still mask the dithering nicely?

>>1990009
they look blurry as fuck to me (that smudge face).

but if you like they way it. that's cool.

>>1990015
No idea. It likely does, but I dunno.

>>1990016
You can clearly see the individual pixels that make up his face. They're not razor sharp, but they wouldn't be at 240p anyway. Lots of /vr/ anons purposely blur their emulated images for authenticity, and you're you're crying that it it's too blurry when it's actually as clear as any other screenshot posted in this thread, if not clearer (which some would decry as too clear). I swear to God it's as if you people refuse to be satisfied with anything and seek out--or just imagine--problems by default.

>>1990012
That only happens on NTSC, on PAL the "banding" is dramatically less noticeable. It's subtle to the point you only notice some blue and yellow snippets if you really focus. That picture I made was the game running on PAL.
I also heard later Genesis models go really easy on the banding. 32X has its own encoder so naturally it comes out cleaner.

>>1990015
It's not "masking" the dithering. The composite encoder is engineered so that the dithering gets dealt with, it is not a secondary effect of composite compression.

>>1990027
>They're not razor sharp, but they wouldn't be at 240p

you don't what real 240p looks then.

Can you not see the resolution mismatch in those shots?
Everything looks blurry and jagged at the same time. It looks bad.

(Really look at that skeleton)

If want to see 480p sprites, look up guilty gear X.

>>1990027
>>1989863
>>1989839

>Waiting around just to troll crt threads.

Are you really that bored?

>>1990050

I've played Rebirth on a good CRT, in fact, I did so yesterday, in fact, I'm the anon that asked about it originally

It looks really good, because it's just a good looking game to begin with, I don't think it has a big problem at 480i

but, I do still think it would look absolutely beautiful at 240p

my biggest problem with the game is the special effects, they look like particle effects in Unreal, they don't look too out of place but I wish they didn't do stuff like that, that and how the bats spin when you kill them, suddenly an animated sprite is just spinning, I don't get why

>>1990050
*You don't know what

>>1990050
>Everything looks blurry and jagged at the same time. It looks bad.

...the blurriness is because the pictures posted are lossy jpegs of what should be PNG screenshots.

The game looks absolutely fine at 480p on a CRT.

>>1990067
>480p

so, deinterlaced?

>>1989854
*Those games

>>1990059
>I don't like what he's saying, so I'll call him a troll for an instant win!

Quiet, adults are talking.

>>1990050
Sprites don't come in video display resolutions, games do.

>>1989774
Keep in mind the Wii is not exactly a powerful device. Some games may be more intensive than others, and thus may not run at full speed on it.

Give the same game a go on RetroArch's GPGX core, and if there's no audio issues, it's likely the game just doesn't run at full speed on the Wii.

>>1989825
>Linking a video with a playlist

>>1990078
On PC, of course.

>>1989819
*Earlier

>>1989810
*How does the 32X fare?

>>1990073
>>1990085
>>1990087

Do yuo cmoe ot /vr/ jsut to splelhceck?

>>1990065
>>1990073

Thanks.

(Google keyboard sucks, its always missing words and punctuation. because of the lag I'm assuming)

>>1990071
You do know the Wii does 480p natively, right?

>>1989765
*Fuck's sake

>>1990067
>>1990063

perhaps I can't articulate what I'm trying to say properly, but those sprites seriously look worse than any Castlevania game I've ever seen.

Excluding the ones on GBA being very badly upscaled most of the time.

that's sprit work is not up to par with the turbo graphics game

and some of the stripes look like they are scaled at different resolutions

I was trying to point out to you that the skeleton looks completely out of place.

the compression on these screenshots isn't that bad. that's just what the game looks like

the nature of interlaced video hide some of the flaws when you're playing in real time.

but even that doesn't it really help the style look the way it should.

especially on a system as capable as a wii

>>1989753
*It's whatever

>>1990091
it doesn't matter some games will only play at 480i

no matter what you have the console set to

Megaman 9 and Mad World (just to name a few titles) will not output in progressive mode.

They are 480i only

>>1989810
>>1990087
>Sega CD is a bit more powerful than Genesis, so could just be that the Wii isn't really powerful
For Silpheed, yes, but Eternal Blue seems to have an actual problem with it .

>32x
Not supported, sadly. Which makes me sad because I'd really like to give Tempo a shot.

>>1990079
sorry, it shouldn't of been

>>1989854
The problem is that those games also do NOT even bother to include fucking 480p support. Not supporting 240p is one thing, but at the very fucking least include 480p if it's meant for use with HDTVs.

Capcom got extremely lazy with the Wii versions.

>>1990130

Might it be able to force a video mode with a Homebrew tool?

>>1989919
I had one of those lying around. I gave it to my cousin after her 27" RCA tube with component inputs (which was also mine at one point) kicked the bucket. Looks pretty nice with her SNES. Her Xbox 360, not so much.

>>1990120
>it doesn't matter some games will only play at 480i

Fair enough, but the Rebirth games aren't part of that bunch. They all display 480p natively.

>>1990145

and it's like playing a GBA game on the Game Boy Player in 480p, not great.

>>1990168
And you know this because you've experienced 240 GBP firsthand, or because you read it on RetroRGB and took it as gospel?

>>1990168
GBA at 480p looks fine, nerd.

>>1990171
GBA games don't look that great to begin with (that over-saturation and poor scaling)

but yes I have played them at 240p with fixed color palettes (on a BVM CRT). and they looked markedly better.

but that's just me, you might think the same image looks horrible (especially if you don't like scanlines)

at the end of the day, everything is subjective. and I don’t buy into all the “what the developers intended” nonsense. Most devs don’t give a fuck how games play or look. It’s all about that paycheck.

The “creative people” don’t even program the damn things (most don’t anyway).

>>1989919
I had a very similar model (in black) with component input.

>>1990180
that's an emulator running on a Dell crt, not the GBPlayer on a TV

just try getting anything that good out of it.

>>1990180
and take some new goddamn pictures! is your camera broken or something?

>>1990190
One thing I don't like about playing GBA games in 240p is that a lot of games used very thin and tiny fonts that look weird with scanlines. Kinda hard to describe. At 480p they look better to me. A lot of console games, by comparison, used thicker fonts, or even had some anti-aliasing or something that made them look better on a CRT TV.

>>1990194
I also have a 480p-capable CRT HDTV. Not quite as sharp as my PC monitor, of course, but games still look fine.

>>1990198
I'll take new pictures whenever I damn please.

>>1990209
>whenever I damn please.

I won’t have none of that sassy attitude around here anon! You take some pictures of that CRT running various games and other retro related nonsense, and you do it now!

>>1990209
>fonts that look weird with scanlines

could just be odd lines vs even lines.

>>1990209
GBA had enough memory for a flat framebuffer layer, which games could render proportional text into. Efficient text on an older sprite/tile system usually meant fixed 8x8 blocks, which gives rather chunky-looking text.

>>1990110

I see what you're saying, I think there are even some sprites that shrink and enlarge, only making it worse.

I have a large amount of respect for M2, but I feel they could've done better with these three games, they should've done it the way they did Fantasy Zone II, programmed it on actual older hardware and then ported it, but they probably can't do that since they program everything in assembly

http://youtu.be/iP6EHTkr-C0

>>1990365
Rebirth is not meant to be a "what if" game designed for older hardware. It's meant to evoke the image and feel of an older game without actually being one. I suppose Shovel Knight is a letdown because it wasn't actually designed for NES hardware, too.

>>1990387
Shovel Knight looks way better then Rebirth, in so far as evoking the look and feel of classic games.

Rebirth looks a mishmash of 32 and 16 bit ideas that are barely half-realized. the game is very mediocre.

The game was made probably with a very low budget and it unfortunately shows (A 3rd party download only game for the wii, how many strikes can you put against something?)

Everybody had been asking for a new 2D Castlevania in “HD”. Konami did this and few other failed attempts before just giving up entirely.

>>1990427
>Despair was the right word.

Rebirth, and this "thing" killed 2D Castlevania (and that egoistical prick, killed 3D Castlevania)

feels bad man.

>>1990427
>Rebirth looks a mishmash of 32 and 16 bit ideas
per its intention, not everything has to be a 100% celebration of specific hardware

> that are barely half-realized.
That's not real criticism, that's just puffery. You're entitled to your opinion but your basis for it isn't well developed.

>>1990427

>mediocre

I wouldn't go that far anon, it's a very good Castlevania game, and I like that they even had the old Konami spirit of reusing assets for every game, the level design is pretty tight.

But, Konami should've gave the project more of a push, M2 did well with what they had, I'm sure. I've seen interviews with them, they take every project very seriously, but also, Konami didn't even bother to advertise it.

I'm sure if it was ported to steam, it'd become a cult classic for sure, like La-Mulana

Using Nestopia's RGB palette to emulate a RGB modded NES. What do you think?

>>1990493

looks very good anon, I'm jealous

>>1990494
The monitor is set to 6500k color temp. I think that makes the difference. I have played a few Nintendo VS cabinets and this is close to what they looked like.

>Should have used VS Super Mario Bros for screencapping, but eh.

>>1990506

I don't know what that means :D

But do give us a pic of VS pls, so we can compare

>>1990493

The RGB PPU palette colors are just simply wrong most of the time.

The best colors is the palette based on the Sony NTSC decoder, which Nestopia calls "consumer" palette.

>>1990574
I know they're wrong most of the time, but I was aiming for what I would get from a real modded NES using the VS system's PPU. Are you saying this is not accurate to that?

>>1990512
It would look pretty much identical and I don't want to go the trouble of swapping a bunch of things again to get set back up.

>>1990576

No, it's accurate to the real RGB PPU. which has colors that are well defined, unlike the normal NTSC PPU whose color output varies depending on the TV's decoder hardware.

>>1990574
Boost yellow: yes or no?

>>1990512
He's talking about the white point. 6500k is the NTSC standard and tends to give a warmer picture, with whites leaning a bit towards yellow in tone.

9300k(what I use) is what Japan uses(used?) as its white point. Colors are cooler and whites lean more towards blue in tone.

>>1990493
I was trying to figure out what the hell was up with the tiles until I realized that's not SMB1.

>>1990582
>300k(what I use) is what Japan uses(used?) as its white point

Source for this?

>>1990582
All the VS cabs I played definitely had a reddish tinge to the whites. Maybe they were set by the operator, or maybe they were just funky. But I do think they were closer to 6500k than 9300k.

>>1990580
So just to make sure I have it straight. The Nestopia RGB setting -is- accurate to the RGB PPUs from Playchoice 10's and VS system units.

Right?

>>1990581

That has something to do with how Japanese TVs decoded the signal or something

http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4241&sid=a50a635211c3505de71d1bcaf903d092

>>1990596

Yes, as far as I know.

>>1990591
I've never had the chance to play much arcade related. I'm just not a fan of the way 6500k looks.

>>1990584
I don't think you're going to find a single authoritative source on the matter, but:
http://www.eizo.com/na/library/basics/color_temperature_on_an_LCD_monitor/index.html

The link in >>1990597 also corroborates it.

>>1990597
gol' dangit.

Now I have to buy a JAPANESE pos tv to be more period accurate? The shit I do for this hobby...

>>1990606
No.

Color temperature only describes white point. White is white is white. You're supposed to set it for ambient lighting conditions, like if you have a shitload of fluorescent lighting on everywhere while playing games, you can set it higher to compensate. After all, if you have all this blue shit bombarding your face from every direction, a warm image will look red to you. Likewise, if you have soft yellow home lighting and it's set to something reasonable, a cool (blue) image will look harsh and artificial as fuck.

6500K is normal for a common Western home.

>>1990610
>6500K is normal for a common Western home.
or natural daylight, or any dimly lit room, etc.

>>1990610
But what about the yellow boost in old televisions? Also, I believe some old US televisions boosted yellow instead of the typical red.

>>1990616
Not having used one, it's probably just another term for the same thing. Look at the white in a warm picture under blue ambient lighting. It will look reddish in a way that could also be considered yellowish. You have to see it.

>>1990489
>per its intention

I love how you have these insights into what the developers were thinking when they made this game. please tell me more!

you have as much insight into the development process of this game as me or anyone else, that is to say none.

> I'll wait for you to pull up some interview or article that somehow proves your point

if anything I remember " journalists" on a podcast ( or two) talking about it being a do-over for the abysmal "castlevania: the adventure" on Game Boy. why anybody would have nostalgia for that title is beyond me (game was a slog to get through)

once again I don't think anybody ever asked for this.

Be honest, would this have been your first choice for a new 2-D castlevania game on one of the big three systems of the time?

>not everything has to be a 100% celebration of specific hardware

I don't recall ever saying it did, so you and I are in agreement about this..

>That's not real criticism, that's just puffery. You're entitled to your opinion but your basis for it isn't well developed.

I don't think you're really understanding what I'm trying to say, a game is either good at something or it isn't.

what exactly is this game good at?

>>1990647
>>1990490

>I wouldn't go that far anon, it's a very good Castlevania game

I'm not saying I don't like the game, but I can't in good conscience say it's a "good castlevania game" it's an okay castlevania game ( that's what I mean by mediocre) and that's fine.

>it was ported to steam
that would be way too much effort for Konami, maybe Ipad or something if they thought they could squeeze some money out of it, but don't hold your breath. can you even buy the game on Wii U?

>but also, Konami didn't even bother to advertise it.

is that really surprising? I don't remember them advertising any of the rebirth games. it's like they did everything in their power to make sure nobody played these things. (even big-name titles like resident evil couldn't escape the third-party bloodbath on wii)

and its is not a terrible game either, but it's nowhere near the heights of the series luminaries (Rondo of blood, Symphony of the night, Castlevania III, Super Castlevania 4 etc.)

(I don't even think it pulls off the same finesse of the sharp x6800 CV title, and that game was pretty bare-bones)


this whole thing was doomed from the outset, it's a miracle it turned out anywhere near playable. that's not really enough for me to recommend it over something else. even castlevania wise.

>>1990647
>>1990653

also, I apologize for the capture screenshots. still not home yet so I can take pictures of my CRTs playing the game.

but I will do that as soon as I can.

and please don't misconstrue the tone in my posts, I am very passionate about castlevania ( it's pretty close to my favorite game series)

>>1990643
I think it is a boost independent of the color temp. Something different about how the NTSC signal was decoded.

Surely some company out there still produces new CRTs, right?

>>1990703

ikegami is the only one I've herd of. but their prices are kind of outrageous

>>1990703
Yeah, the same want that produces VCRs and cassette decks.

>>1990703
>>1990707

here are some of the models they still offer.

>>1990707
Are they any good? I'd imagine that with modern tech they could produce much more compact CRTs with higher quality pictures.

>>1990710
some companies still produce tape decks for hospitals and media restoration labs.

Plus, tape is still used in law enforcement and security applications.

>>1990707
Ikegami is one of the last, there are a few cheapo no-name outfits from china making junk, and I think one or two arcade tube manufacturers.

>>1990715
You mean: "The two models that they offer"

The 90 series is about $12K, 17 series about $10K

If I won the lottery i'd be buying a few of them

>>1990718
Samsung and Toshiba made some "Slim" tubes towards the end of their run. About half the depth of a standard CRT, but the extreme angle the electron beam had to take to get to the outer edges of the display meant that they were riddled with convergence and geometry issues.

Mid-2000's CRT tech is the best it's gonna get, and nobody is putting any more R&D into new tech.

>>1990647

>I love how you have these insights into what the developers were thinking when they made this game.

Kind of like how you "know" it's a "240p game." If you want to go down the "you don't know better than anyone else path," you might as well close this chapter, because neither do you.

> it being a do-over for the abysmal "castlevania: the adventure" on Game Boy. why anybody would have nostalgia for that title is beyond me (game was a slog to get through)

Maybe they saw this as a way to correct the slogness? That said, I don't interpret it as a remake since it doesn't share much in common beyond the word "Adventure" in the title.

>Be honest, would this have been your first choice for a new 2-D castlevania game on one of the big three systems of the time?
I would have preferred a new SOTN style game, but given that there WEREN'T any alternatives, this is a silly question. If a superior Castlevania game also came out, I probably would have gotten both, because I still think this is a good game and I don't operate on "anything less than perfect is abysmal."

>what exactly is this game good at?
Being a fun and aesthetically pleasing classic Castlevania title.

>>1990718
you have to look up some reviews, or ask around here to see who has an experience with newer models. but I doubt anyone here has purchased directly from them because of how expensive they are

personally I only have experience with Sony broadcast monitors from 2005 and older.

>>1990723
so call them up and see if they still make CRTs for TV stations or whatever.

>>1990736
Most broadcast facilities are still running on old-stock CRTs or have switched over to OLED if it's for a color-critical application

CRT's just aren't cost effective to make anymore. Kind of sad. I really think analog display tech is far more interesting to tinker with than it's digital counterpart.

>>1990724
I saw a guy get one of their older models for $10 plus shipping on e-bay

lucky SOB

>>1990741
Yeah, Ikegamis can be cheap simply because they are not well knows. Now that the retro gaming camp knows that Sony PVM/BVMs are the shit, they're getting bought up. Better to go to a loving home than to a dump, at least.

Also, It seems that with Ikegamis you have to be careful, since there are some models that either Don't have RGB In, or only have SDI/HD-SDI in. If you get one of these your're boned.

Also it seems that most of their 14 inch models are massive for the tube size so they fit on racks.

>>1990740
Yeah, I know. Follow the thread and read it with a big "sarcasm" sign attached.

>>1990724
I'd figure that electron beams could be produced more easily these days and rather than having 3 you could maybe have multiple emitters situated closer to the screen. Hell, they could probably still just have the 3 beams but a more intricate method of deflecting them in a smaller amount of space. Might even be able to ditch the electron beam all together and replace it with a laser and mirrors to give the same look of a CRT in a fraction of the size and weight.

But yeah, R&D costs are probably the limiting factor here. Nobody wants to invest in a technology that'd have such a niche market.

If I ever become a billionaire I'll invest into CRT research, profits be damned.

>>1990751
Oh, whoops.

I kind of ignored a lot of the petty arguing going on.

I just wanna talk about tubes. ;_;

>>1990752
>R&D
Imagine a fucking console company taking the time to produce a top-of-the-line CRT marketed toward retro enthusiasts and sold at a premium. A small run would likely be profitable.

>>1990752
If I had the time and money, I'd start a business providing CRT repair/refurbish services. Like I said, it's a shame that the tech is dying out, since tubes still outperform many LCDs today.

Considering that CRT projectors still can do resolutions WAY beyond any sort of consumer-grade kit will do. Think 2K and above. Plus no screendoor effect. CRT projectors are a whole other beast to talk about, though.

>>1990763
I think the only way it'd be profitable is if you got the tooling from an old Sony factory or what not for dirt cheap

>Welcome to CRT Hell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P50dIII0Svs

A few months back, Kya, you mentioned you got RGB out of your SCPH-1001 PSX by using the component cables and using the composite out of the RCA output from the back as external sync. Tried it and couldn't get it to work and figured it just wouldn't go on either my PSX or my PVM.

So it turns out I'm a fucking idiot and didnt realize there's a button you need to press in order to turn ext. sync on for some reason. All this time I thought something was goofy with my monitor but, nope, just a goddamn button I needed to hit. I don't know if it's like that with all PVMs, but yeah. I've been using my PS2 this whole time until now. Not that it makes any difference picture-wise, but it's nice to go back to the original model.

Thanks for that tip from forever ago, by the by.

>>1990729
>Kind of like how you "know" it's a "240p game."

yes, I have eyeballs. I know the difference between high-resolution sprites and sprites designed for sub 640x480 resolutions. plus I never claimed it was a 240p game. I only exclaimed that it didn't look optimized for480i/p. its basically a "no-resolution game" because everything looks mismatched.

>"you don't know better than anyone else path," you might as well close this chapter, because neither do you.

I'm not the one doing the navelgazing, that's all you buddy.

>interpret it as a remake since it doesn't share much in common beyond the word "Adventure" in the title.

remake or reimagining, doesn't really make much of a difference. it still has a framework that it's building off of. and they basically picked the worst possible framework they could.

>I don't operate on "anything less than perfect is abysmal."

just keep putting those words in my mouth, they taste delicious!

>Being a fun and aesthetically pleasing classic Castlevania title.it's

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. (a fun little diversion perhaps, aesthetically pleasing no)

and that's the last i'll say on any of this, (until I get home and take some pictures)

have the last word, if you like.

(you and I always end up going off the rails, don't we?)

>>1990785
Shit man, I thought I'd asked about if you had switched the sync type.

Glad to see you managed to get it all worked out though.

>Tails Concerto
Nice.

>>1990785
do you have any issues with screen width or placement?

>be kid
>playing NES at Uncle's house on his CRT
>was an old CRT that had a cracked screen that he repaired himself
>by chipping away the outer protective screen
>didn't realize until years later that a slight tap and the entire thing would've imploded and I'd end up with a face full of phosphor coated glass
>mfw

Does anyone here own a 20" bvm?
If so, please take some pictures for me.

>>1990814
I have 20" PVM-20L5 that similar to some BVM (i'm repairing it as best I can)

its 800 TVL

would you like some pics of that, when I have it setup?

>>1990797
No idea. I wish Foolz weren't down so I could at least read that thread and see what the hell I did. I don't recall reading anything about sync types. I wasn't even aware there was a difference until I looked up earlier. Knowing me you probably said something about it but I just figured if I had it set to RGB and had something plugged into sync that it should recognize it and didn't pay much attention to the wording.

>>1990861
>Foolz
We moe now.
http://archive.moe/vr/thread/1653384

>>1990861
Oh, Foolz is back.
http://archive.moe/vr/thread/1653384/#1673575

All you gave me was a "Weird", Kya. All you gave me was a "Weird".

Oh well, it was still stupid of me. I wonder what purpose having ext. sync as an on/off option even serves.

>>1990876
>All you gave me was a "Weird", Kya. All you gave me was a "Weird".
Sorry

>>1990842
Yes, do so.

Where are you putting it by the way? On its own "gaming" style cabinet or are you situating it on a desk?

Quite a nice monitor but I had a read of the manual here:
http://www.broadcaststore.com/pdf/model/671080/pvm20l5.pdf

And it has no support for 240p. How will the monitor display that sort of content if its not mentioned?

>>1990886
>And it has no support for 240p
240p isn't really an industry standard and technically just a modified 480i signal. Which the L5 does support.

>>1990886
Screenshot here

>>1990886

I'm not >>1990842, but the spec sheet specifies the monitor can handle a 15.75Khz input scanning frequency, which covers 240P AND 480i

>>1990886
>And it has no support for 240p. How will the monitor display that sort of content if its not mentioned?

240p will never be mentioned in official documents because it's technically not a "real" NTSC recognized resolution. 240p content will show up on the UI display as 480i, but it's still 240p. My display is a 20L5 as well and I can personally confirm it.

>>1990882
That's okay

>>1990804
Aside from the slight warping issue on the right side which you can see in >>1990785 if you scroll up and down it's got no problems whatsoever.

I still go insane trying to dial in any combination possible to fix that small hiccup but I can't. I have to practically kill myself to ignore the geometry settings every time I turn it on. Having the monitor is a blessing and a curse.

>>1990895
>>1990896
Forgive me for being quite new to signals, but 240p input means 240 lines of image, and 240 lines that are blanked out correct? Which gives you 480i?

Or would anybody care to explain this if you have the time, if I am misunderstanding something

>>1990905
>Forgive me for being quite new to signals, but 240p input means 240 lines of image, and 240 lines that are blanked out correct? Which gives you 480i?

Yes, that's the basic idea. 240p is achieved by cheating the interlacting out of 480i, in layman's terms.

>>1990905
>but 240p input means 240 lines of image, and 240 lines that are blanked out correct? Which gives you 480i?
240p has nearly the same frequency characteristics and blanking intervals as 480i, but the field rate is 262 or 263 lines per field instead of 262.5.

>>1990905
240P is 240 lines displayed each frame scanned onto the display.

480i is still 240 lines per 'frame', but each alternate frame displays alternate lines, giving you 480 interlaced lines. You never have 480 lines on the screen at the same time.

see http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/interlaced-vs-progressive-scanning-methods.html

>>1989748

It was aimed at computer users. The first thing you want when you use a computer is having a sharper display than simple TVs.

Can we have a PVM thread soon

>>1991143

>>1990796
>(you and I always end up going off the rails, don't we?)

What makes you think you're talking to a specific person you've argued with before?

Would there be any harm in extending the height and width of a 240p windowboxed to 480p image on my screen to fill as much as possible?
I just got PSP component cables. I'm happy with how PS1 POPS games look, with the system surprisingly swapping between 480i and 240p as appropriate. However some game collections like Gradius collection have an option to disable scaling. Though then the actual game be a fraction of the 272 lines the PSP is drawing, itself a fraction of the full 480p image being outputted, which would be far too small for me.

This question pertains to CRTs and the Wii--which in itself isn't retro, but since I and many others here use it as a retro emu box, hopefully I won't be lynched.

I bought Wii component cables to get the best picture possible, but it appears that when the Wii is connected to the cable, it automatically sets itself to 480p mode--which is no good, as my CRT is not capable of 480p. I have not been able to find a solution to keep it set to 480i--it resets to 480p every time the system is turned on. Outside of turning on the console, unplugging the cable, and plugging it back in (the Wii sets itself to 480i when the plug is removed, and seems to only switch to 480p when the cable is detected at startup), is that just the way it is?

If so, that sucks, since years of PS2 component output on the same TV (which doesn't behave in this manner) have spoiled me.

>in before "get a better CRT"
All in due time. But really, I'm pretty happy with my CRT and this is the only real downside I've experienced with it.

>>1991553

That's bizarre. Most Wiis don't do that.
If you can plug it into a display that does support 480p, try going into the system settings and changing the video mode to 480p. It may permanently be saved as 480p, and only fallback on 480i if it thinks it can't do it (as is the case when the cable is unplugged)

>>1991554

*changing the video mode to 480i

>>1991553
>>1991554
Alternatively, try plugging in just the green cable to a composite port on the TV, and see if it takes it. If it does (should be a black and white image), try setting it to 480i from there.

>>1991592

I don't think that will work at all, given that there's probably some signalling pin in the Wii side of the cable.

You could always try blindly changing the option by "feeling around" as well.

>>1991365
probably a heightened sense of defensiveness and mild paranoia over unimportant things

see it all the time in nerd communities

>>1991553
If you really get desperate, you could connect it to a sync-on-green capable PC monitor, and change the setting from there.

>>1991553
Could you attempt to put tape over pin 15?
It might likely be that the cable shorts this with 5V which enables progressive scan.

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:wii_multi_av_pinout

>>1991728

That's a very useful resource. Thanks!

>>1991728

Looking at that pinout, it seems that it would cause it to fallback to composite and either RGB or S-Video if pins 8 and 10 get shorted.

>>1991596
>You could always try blindly changing the option by "feeling around" as well.
Believe me, I've tried, but the picture was far too distorted. But...

>>1991554
>try going into the system settings and changing the video mode to 480p.

That worked like a charm! Thanks for the advice.

>It may permanently be saved as 480p, and only fallback on 480i if it thinks it can't do it (as is the case when the cable is unplugged)

That seems to be the case. I guess the Wii can't detect whether its TV can do 480p, but I'd say that if it "falls back" onto 480i, it should change the setting accordingly. I've read a number of Nintendo troubleshooting guides and none of them account for this situation.

Thanks again!

Do SCART cables use the composite pin for sync when in RGB mode?
Does that mean most consoles which use SCART typically output RGB and composite, and TVs tend to use the RGB for colour and composite just for sync?

>>1991767

Yup, the composite pin is basically the sync pin.

>>1991767
Yes. But possible disadvantages are:
- Left shifted picture. (which causes a black bar on the right if the game doesn't overscan much, like NES/SNES)
- Slightly darker image. (you need to increase the contrast)
This applies to most SCART TVs, some might include corrections for these issues.

>>1991774

But it tends to be a full composite video signal, right? Composite video as opposed to composite sync. If you were using some sort of converter that accepted composite sync, you'd need a sync stripper.

>>1991779

What's the reason for both of those.

>>1991784

On some systems it is, on my megadrive and dreamcast, it doesn't seems to be the case, I tried to use the sync as composite video on my PVM, and it didn't display anything.

>>1991790

I have a cheap 3rd party Dreamcast RGB SCART cable which has a composite block in the middle of of it... I'll try it myself sooner or later.

>>1991784
The whole internal composite/S-Video to RGB conversion seem to delay the signal (like 4-6 SNES pixels) and the TV is probably adjusted against it.
Why it's darker is quite a mystery, i don't know for sure. Maybe it's to make the inserted text/caption/whatever not so bright which is one of the major features of SCART, you can connect a decoder box which gets the composite of the currently tuned channel and could overlay captions over the TV internal composite via RGB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART#RGB_overlays_.28fast_switching.29

My personal methods to deal with these issues are:
A external box i use to center the RGB picture.
A additional terminator for my NES. (to make it darker)

Pic very related, that chip in the middle is a microcontroller to enable my hacked-in 16:9 mode via remote, i also keep switching the cables when needed and the extra venting holes were my dads idea to increase the air flow.

>>1991803

That's quite a mess, anon. I like it.

>>1991818
Do you want to see the whole setup from behind?

>>1991835

Please

>>1991841
A battlestation on wheels.

>>1991853
This battlestation is normally in this corner and dust accumulates under it.
Cables that to go left are for my PC setup.

>>1991859
This is my current wallpaper on my PC at work.
Here you can see the 16:9 mode in action, N64 is on the bottom and a DVB-S receiver and DVD player right under the TV.

>inb4 dat controller, i just picked the picked the nearest one

>>1991868
forgot pic

Stupid question here.
Why 1:1 was not a standard? Why 4:3?

>>1991872

More visually appealing and fits the field of view better.
16:9 and sometimes 16:10 are the modern standards because they better fit those criteria; 16/9 and 16/10 also happen to approximate φ, for trivia.

>>1991872
Physical measurements of the perforations and frame area on 35mm silent films.

all da pixels

>>1992014
>pixels

>>1992017
Yeah, just shy of 6 million of them.

Man this thing was filthy; Still not terribly clean, but a lot better than before.

>>1991365
>>1991614

usually, writing style or repeated phrases and tone can give a clue to one's identity.

everybody has a pattern.

(we are all fractals, lol)

>>1992130
what is that thing?

>>1992309
The ass end of a Mitsubishi XC 3730c with its back cover removed.

Wiped down, cleaned, and blasted some air at as much as could. Not touching the tube though. Tobacco tar strikes again.
Can still only run composite on it, but I'll post some more photos in a moment.

>>1992331
I'm jealous.

I wish I could find a bigger display in my area. Everything is a shitty 100hz TV. The only interesting thing i've seen on craigslist was a 14'' Sony PVM.

>>1992331

>Mitsubishi XC 3730c
looks like a nice monitor from the pictures I saw online

>tobacco tar
you mean somebody smoked enough around this thing for it to get super gross inside?

> only composite
why, looks like it has plenty of RGB ports on the back ( are they malfunctioning?)

here's a post somebody made about the circuit boards on the unit, might help you

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19331442-Help-figuring-this-thingy-out-mitsubishi-xc3730c

>>1992331
if you use the chicken-stick you could probably get a deeper clean inside

>>1992343
that seems to be more to do with how the RGB ports function versus a D sub 15 VGA cable

>>1992358
You should just need an HD15 to 5BNC breakout.

>>1992363
that's what I was thinking,

but I couldn't see too closely at the pictures, it looked like it had some other ports that were similar to VGA (Barco style 9-pin connectors?)

>>1992364
That 9-pin connector is gonna be for an RS232 serial remote, so not a video input.

There's a DB-15 connector on that labled RGB2 that was something common on older macs.

a BNC5 connection is probably the best you could ask for, really.

>>1992343
>you mean somebody smoked enough around this thing for it to get super gross inside?
Yes. How filthy the place I got it from probably didn't help matters.

>why, looks like it has plenty of RGB ports on the back
Because it doesn't like composite video for sync, and the only thing I have an actual SCART cable for (SNES) is wired from composite video, not composite sync. The 5 BNC, from what I've seen and been able to find, is only for 15khz signals. RGB 2 can apparently take 30+, but I don't have the proper cable for it. I need to either get a sync stripper or a cable wired correctly for it.

I still haven't gotten the degaussing coil to attempt to remove that one discolored splotch, but in the month or two that it's been sitting unplugged, it seems to have faded heavily.

I'll toss all the misc internal photos up on flickr so as not to flood the thread.

>>1992398
This and the intro bit to Mega Man X are the only places I can see the discoloration now, where it used to be quite easily visible in nearly everything, even the skies of Yoshi's Island.

>>1992412
Distortion is right between required, safely, confirm, and ability.

And that's all for now.

>>1992431
all that it's pretty nice, besides the dark spot off the left inside,

how does it look while you're playing?
( since you are on composite, does this display have a good comb filter?)

>The 5 BNC, from what I've seen and been able to find, is only for 15khz signals.

isn't that a good thing?

>>1992480
>>The 5 BNC, from what I've seen and been able to find, is only for 15khz signals.
The fact that is accepts 15khz sync is great, but if it would accept 31khz+ on those lines, I could hook it up to a computer much easier; Considering that the previous owner gave me a VGA->5BNC cable.

It looks really nice in action, aside from the spot and that it's on composite.

As for the comb filter, I really can't say: The individual pixels are relatively well defined, but there is quite a lot of what looks to be dot crawl on the intro text of Yoshi's Island. This could just be YI's text being weird, as I remember getting a similar effect when testing composite on my PVM.

It also seems to have pretty high persistence phosphors. Yoshi jumping onto the screen at the beginning of a stage leaves a(in my opinion) neat looking trail behind him. Not exactly a good thing, but it looks neat.

>>1992496
The geometry on it is really good, which is great.

Gradius III start up screen.

Would anyone know where I can buy japanese model monitor sets from in japan?
Yahoo auction has hardly anything, so I'm assuming there are specific websites for used monitors somewhere on the internet

hey, question for the guy who had jazz jackrabbit running on his black Trinitron ( that had been painted silver)

I know you said you used a special version of DOS box, and that you are running Windows XP.

do you have to have an ATI card to output 240p resolutions with your setup? ( I only have Nvidia cards)

>>1989521
If the bvm-d20 and a20 can both display 480p, why are they not the preferential monitor that gamers look for? I'm curious as to why people still look for G,F,E series?

>>1992742
>that grass

Has anyone ever tried to run 200p@70Hz on a SD tube?

I'm curious if anything out there can run DOS games at their non-double scanned 'native' res.

>>1992742
>do you have to have an ATI card to output 240p resolutions with your setup?
Yes. My first ATI, an HD3450 really satisfied me by being capable to output 15khz interlaced and non-interlaced.
Before that i always used Nvidia cards, 9600GT could only output non-interlaced and that worked pretty badly and GTX460SE always crashed my computer when i set to 15khz.
Not only that these picky cards wanted a valid EDID, the drivers where crap too. My computer runs way more stable with that HD3450 as with the previous Nvidia cards, and slower (but that's fine, i prefer reliability over speed).

>( I only have Nvidia cards)
Good luck. ATI+PowerStrip+WinModelines worked way better than anything i tried on my Nvidia cards.

>>1993069
Too bad that i build some over frequency protection inside my VGA->SCART adapter, so i can't really test this for you.
I would assume following results:
- Gets blocked. (my KV-C2521D blocks video and audio when there isn't a stable video signal)
- The vertical amplitude is not adjusted, resulting into a letterbox effect and the current measurement impulses could become visible. (would look like >>1991870)
- Deflection circuits is kill.
- Looks perfect. (unlikely)

>>1992130
>>1992331

I ruined one of these (XC3717) in the early days of my intro to this hobby. It was my second RGB pro monitor, and I didn't know what the fuck most of the on-screen settings did. I think I was running at over 100k color temp, had the RGB drive and gain settings cranked way up or down alternatively, and had no clue about how to properly set contrast or brightness.

I also tried to send mine high resolutions because I thought since it had a maximum res of 1600x1200 it should have been able to display 1080p video. It did technically support it but it was very dark and the geometry suffered. 720p was watchable. It made a great 480p display for old anime.

But it gave out after I sat there all day for weeks on end tinkering with the thing

>CLICK CLICK, CLICK CLICK, CLICK CLICK, CLUNK CLICK, CLICK CLUNK

I'd change resolution 50 times in one sitting. Eventually it started getting sparks every now and then in the back and the video would get all dark and blurry. I finally got rid of it when I got its older brother, the AM3501R, which I treated far far better.

>>1993287
You monster

>>1989629
>mfw there's still no way to output RGB from this thing.

I just want to play muh GBA games on muh PVM, my NTSC gamecube won't output RGB and there's no GBA emulator for the Wii that outputs unfiltered 240p.

>>1993319
>there's no GBA emulator for the Wii that outputs unfiltered 240p.
Mednafen Wii
Set it to double strike.

>>1993287
The settings on mine are quite oddly staggered, but I've left most of that alone, aside from my usual 9300K color temp. I might take the Dreamcast up there in a bit and mess around with 240p Suite over S-Video.
I've got to say, some of the clicking noises this thing makes when switching between no display and a video input are really something.

>But it gave out after I sat there all day for weeks on end tinkering with the thing
That's sort of why I've been waiting until I can get my hands on a degaussing coil before doing any work on it; Why change stuff around when it will likely all need changed later anyway?

>>1993327
>Mednafen Wii

This is exactly what I wanted, too bad it's letterboxed but I can live with that, it doesn't have the strutter problem of vba-gx either, man I'm gonna enjoy some nice games.

Thanks dude.

>>1993415

>Letterboxed

Does your set have an overscan function? My PVM does.

>>1993424
Nope, its an old PVM-2030, I would have to open it and turn some screws on the board to fix that, but then I would need to turn everything back before playing another thing.

>>1993415
>letterboxed
Windowboxed;

And no problem. It's not perfect, but it runs at least as well as GX and scales everything right.

>>1993447
How does RetroArch's VBA-Next core fare in comparison?

>>1993457
I was actually meant to say that I should test that out later to see how it fares.

Will check back in a bit.

Technically still a CRT.
I decided to start using an old HP Pavilion mx704 monitor for emulation after we had stashed in our closet for about 10 years.

Took six photos to show off the quality.

First two show the desktop.
Second two show in-game untouched.
Last two show in-game at simulated 240p (224p in the Super Nintendo's case).

Resolution is 3840x480, and the monitor doesn't support 240p/224p resolutions, hence the dreaded shader in the last two images.

The camera decided to bump down the saturation for these two. Not sure why, but I suppose that's what I get for not using a DSLR.

>>1993592
>>1993596
>tapered pixels with a shader
Honestly wouldn't have been able to tell it wasn't true 240p if you didn't say it. Looks good.

>>1993608

Nice reply to yourself. :^)

>>1993626
Nice guess but nope. I'm actually surprised that came out of a pc monitor.

>>1993608
CRT monitors are quite capable of authentically faking 240p.

>emulation
>>>/vg/82804903

Please go to your containment general.

>>1993638

Are retro games being played?
>yes
/vr/
>no
/v/ or /vg/

>>1993630

It's as sharper as my Samsung SyncMaster (even a bit sharper), so it was pretty obvious for me..

>>1993636

>I_post_this_pic_every_thread.jpg

Also, for some people, yes, but for many others, nope, it's just too sharp to be 240p.

>>1993649
Have some blur, then.

>>1993649
>it's just too sharp to be 240p.
There are shaders that simulate that blur, I just don't like it myself so I go with simple interlacing.

>>1993676
I usually apply just enough so that shit doesn't just look like nearest neighbor with black lines and pixels look rounder. Some games require a bit more than that to blend some shit, like >>1993656 with its pseudo-hires transparencies, but for the most part, that's a bit too blurry for me.

>>1993682
Went with one of the pre-configured svideo shaders. Adds more blur at lower resolutions.

>>1993715
I think you have your monitor brightness set a bit too high. Looks a bit washed out, and some of the pixels that should be pitch black are slightly illuminated.

>>1990660
this picture feels good to me. Dat RCA TV. Castlevania. Fuck yeah.

Say I wanted to connect a console to a PC CRT monitor. There are devices that let you do that, right? Are there any that give you the option to add scanlines on top of that?

>>1993771

Some consoles can natively output 480p through VGA, but the only /vr/ one is the Dreamcast.
There are devices which do that, and I believe some of them introduce scanlines, but I can't tell you which.

>>1993715
Just got a new in box crt monitor off ebay for $50.
Currently using it with my Dreamcast, and it looks great!

>>1993782
I always forget that dreamcast supports VGA.

>>1993780
I know about the Dreamcast. I was really referring to older consoles than that.

Honestly, I can go without scanlines (line-doubled 480p still looks great on a CRT), but if there's a scaler or line-doubler that has the capability, it'd be a nice plus.

>>1993771
Depends on the signal being fed into it.
My pc crt monitor has pretty standard scanlines when being given a 240p signal, and even at 480p.
Just the way crt works, you should be fine without a scanline generator.

>>1993797

Most PC CRTs don't support 16KHz Hsync, right?

>>1993804
True, though consoles that output at 480p, like the Dreamcast, should be fine.

>>1993804
They do not. If you want to connect retro consoles to one (the Dreamcast being the sole exception, of course), you must first convert the signal to 31KHz through some kind of scaler or line doubler. If you want scanlines on top of that, there are scanline generators that might do the trick.

How many CRTs does /vr/ own?

I've got:
2 PVMs
2 consumer-grade trinitrons
A Panasonic broadcast monitor
An RCA EDTV that gets used occasionally
A 9-Inch monochrome CRT that is used for a server monitor

And about 5 or 6 1-inch monochrome CRTs that i use for playing around with

Looking to buy another PVM/BVM soon, i'd like one that does 480P

>>1993940
I have a crt monitor and a quasar pile of trash that only support composite that I only picked up to use with my wii.

- An SD Sony WEGA 27FS100 for my retro consoles

- An HD Sony WEGA 30XS955 for my newer consoles, movies, and TV

- A Mitsubishi DiamondPlus 74SB as a secondary PC monitor, most used for emulation

>>1993960
meant in reply to
>>1993940

>>1993960
How is the HD WEGA? I've seen a few nice larger sets pop up on my local CL. It'd be nice to have a 36/40 inch display for newer games, since PVM's only go to 20 inches for the most part.

>>1993974
Unfortunately it suffers from some pretty nasty convergence and/or focus issues on some areas of the screen, which makes it look blurrier than it should, at least with my Wii. Messing with the service menu only took me so far. HD signals from TV or my 360 mask the issues somewhat, but it's still not as sharp as I would like.

If you do decide to jump for one, test it thoroughly before committing, because they are pretty big and extremely heavy and hard to carry. Bring a Wii with the 240p test suite to the guy's house.

And it should go without saying, but do not even bother entertaining the thought of hooking up anything older than the Dreamcast to one. At least in the case of HD WEGAs, they are TERRIBLE for retro. My cousin did have an older HD Philips that actually didn't handle 240p too badly, but the downside was there was no way to get it to unstretch it from 16:9 for some odd reason.

>>1993940
I have two. One is a 20" SD Toshiba (pic related) that I bought for college. Still in great shape, though the screen may have some faint scratches. The other is a 20" SD Samsung that I inherited from my mother, and its video quality seems to be waning. Suprisingly, since it's several years younger than my Toshiba and certainly used much less.

>>1993327
Doesn't it have a degauss button?

>>1993992
And keep in mind I am in no way trying to discourage you from getting one, because I've heard when properly calibrated, they are amazing and beat the shit out of most modern HD sets in terms of PQ. Just turns out I got one that has a fair bit of issues, and to be honest, I wasn't aware that it would have issues with 240p when I decided to get it. I got it when I was barely getting into researching display tech, and thought this one was gonna be something I could hook up literally everything to.

Just be aware of the limitations of HD sets, is what I'm saying. If you find one that looks great and doesn't suffer from convergence and focus issues, go for it if you have the room and have a buddy to help you carry it.

>>1993940
Several

>Hitachi Superscan Elite 20
>Phillips 19" Television
>JVC TM-13U Color Video Monitor
>NEC XM29
>Toshiba Black Stripe Portable Television
>RCA Lyceum TV
>IBM Color Video Monitor
>Panasonic 19" Television
>Some Sony PC CRTs in storage
>random 13" Sanyo Television

Many and more in the past. Probably around 100 CRTs have passed through my ownership.

>>1993992
>>1994004

Yeah, I definatley know the limitations of HD Tube sets. I'd just love to have it for 6th/7th gen consoles. Larger tubes are notorious for convergence and geometry issues, but that's just the nature of the tech.

My dream display would be one of the 36-inch widescreen BVM's, or maybe one of the 24-inch ones. I believe the 24-inch widescreen BVMs used the same tube as the Sony FW-900 CRT Monitor, so the PQ is just fantastic.

I would like to get a CRT projector too, and experiment with that.

>>1993974
They're incredible once they are calibrated. Out of the box they need the overscan cut-off corrected. They cut off way too much by factory settings.

Once you have corrected several settings in the service menu they are still about as good of a picture you will find on a consumer television for the size.

I would put a Super Fine Pitch HD CRT up against any plasma.

Take note this is only in relation to watching television/blu-ray. For gaming they can be nice as long as you don't mind 1080i.

For retro they are shit.

>>1993940
In order of acquisition:
Dell E770s (2000)(PC)
Samsung GXE-1395 (1998)(SD)
Sony PVM-20M2MDU (1998)(SD)
Sony KV 32FS13 (2001)(SD)
Sony KV 24FS100 (2003)(SD)
Sony KV 27HS420 (2005)(HD)
Mitsubishi XC-3730c (1995)(Multi)

This is ignoring my mother's SD GE and HD Sanyo as well as my father's SD Toshiba. Gave the other Samsung to my sister.

>>1994003
It does, but it's not all that powerful(my PVM's is considerably stronger, and I believe the FS13's is as well) and it's a single spot that has this problem. This is all under the assumption that it is indeed small part of the mask that's magnetized and not something else. Someone on neo-geo claims to have had one with the same type of spot that slowly died, and I'm hoping that it's just coincidence.

The first time I had it powered up to fiddle around with it, I actually did manage to get the spot to go away(at least in use) by placing an old cheap boom box speaker against the side of the tube. Perhaps that's why it seems to have been diminished now.

>>1993940
PVM-1353MD
PVM-14M2U
BVM-14G5U
Intergraph 21sd107a

There's a few consumer sets in my house that aren't mine. Not interested in them though.

I still want some kind of PVM-L5 and at least a 20 inch PVM.

>>1993578
I'm curious as to what image this is showing?

Is it worth picking up a FW900 for merely $1?
I will have to pay for shipping, but the price shouldn't exceed $100, yet I'm not quite sure what the going price is for one of these monitors, all I hear is that they are fantastic and if so, I would rather acquire it then have the owner throw it out.

>>1994367
Yeah, get it if it's in good condition.
The convergence and geometry is all adjustable in extremely granular increments from your computer with a USB cable.
Probably one of the best performing CRTs ever made.

Just make sure the idiot packs it right so it doesn't show up in 60 different pieces.

>>1994359
looks like Garou: Mark of the Wolves, on Dream Cast.

>>1993676

Yes, and it does it high quality with a large horizontal output resolution (3840x480 used in image)