/vr/ - Retro Games

I want to get a small CRT television for my retro consoles, but I don't have much knowledge of what makes that stuff good or bad.
Anything I should know, or just some good TVs in general?
I want it to have scart, but I'm a eurofag, so that will be alright.

>>1982459
>>1982454

Letting you know, I just received a reply.
>"....But the burn is is quite large but not too heavy. Of course it can be seen when there is a white picture or one with low contrast shown.
Regards"

He will take a picture for me on monday.

Here's to hoping it is fixable.

>>1982585

The vibe I typically get from these threads is that non-HD Trinitrons are the best for consumer level TVs and PVMs are best for professional monitors.

>be yuropoor
>buy us snes
>buy sony trinitron vhs combo because it's the only trinitron I can find
>buy rgb scart lead for ntsc
>really excited to finally enjoy retro as it was meant to be
>still in letterbox

It's been my biggest disappointment in a long time. I am assuming the fact its a VHS combo forces it to PAL? I am completely guessing. It's a Sony KV-14FV1U.

>>1982593

Is your game also NTSC?

>>1982593

Wat?
PAL and NTSC aren't used in RGB.

>>1982594
>>1982596

I'm an idiot. It looks like it only supports NTSC on the composite but not scart.

When I say NTSC, I just mean full screen so apologies if I being really stupid.

>>1982598

No Problem. I see, a composite-only monitor so. Well, what waste. I think it's why people on /vr/ say not to get TV+VHS combo boxes.

>>1982603

I have a TV/VHS combo which does plenty of signals right (NTSC composite, PAL composite, PAL60 composite, RGB 480i60, RGB 576i50. Haven't yet tried S-Video) but it has way too much overscan.

>>1982593
>KV-14FV1U
>BC-5 chassis
>Video+RGB goes into CXA2139S
>amplified RGB and deflection comes out
I knew before i asked google that i won't find any datasheets.
>buy us snes
>still in letterbox
And sure that there wasn't any 50/60hz mod made on that?
I can't imagine that such a new Trinitron won't adjust vertical deflection amplitude for 60hz, i'm sure that the VCR don't have any effect on how the signal is displayed and processed unless you activate it and watch it though the VCR but then you should noticed that it wasn't RGB but composite.

However, if that letterbox bothers you then you could adjust V-Size in the service menu. But it could also change the regular 50hz, so better write everything down before changing things to undo the changes.
See page 36:
http://diagramasde.com/diagramas/otros/KV-14FV1B.pdf

>>1982587
Actual image burn, like how you will often see "IInsert Coin::" burnt into an arcade monitor, that is absolutely not fixable. Just hope that it either isn't too bad or that he is talking about something else and using the wrong term.

How fast do I have to press the buttons to get into the service menu? I got my hands around a Trinitron KV-M1450D with original remote. The picture is a bit shifted, so I wanted to adjust it. My problem is that I can't seem to enter it. Or is it the opposite and I have to wait before the next button press?

>>1982687
Oh, i have the same one.
Turn off (standby) by using the remote and then press on the remote:
1. The button that brings up the OSD, so that the selected channel stays on the screen.
2. 5
3. Volume+
4. The button that activates TV mode (not AV).
You don't have to do that fast.
You will see TT on the upper right corner, then press the menu button on the remote.
You must use 50hz as input or else you can't change anything.
>The picture is a bit shifted
Normal for SCART RGB, keep in mind that composite will be also changed.

Did somebody say burn-in?

It really only happens heinously with early gen arcade monitors and monitors used in industrial settings e.g. if it's been showing the same high-contrast surveillance angle for ten years, or some spreadsheet with consistent boxes. Rear-projection is another matter entirely and can suffer from it within weeks.

I've successfully minimized mild burn-in by displaying snowy static on the screen for a few weeks straight, it softens the edges. If you could display a precise inverse of the burned in image for a long time it would fix it, although of course only by bringing the quality of the rest of the phosphors down to the same level.

Not in this bad a case of course, but most video game designers took measures to counter this type of stuff in most games by the mid-80s and monitors used in broadcast, editing and medical situations are unlikely to suffer this type of true burn-in.

>>1982703
Either I'm a complete retard or this doesn't seem to work for me. I think, it's the former.
Am I really supposed to press the buttons while it's in stand-by? Because it turns on after I press the TV button and switches automatically into AV mode. Do I have to have a TV channel on? Or does it work with RGB SCART?

>>1982747
Also, there is no TT in the corner. Only 05 because I've been trying to get into the service menu.

>>1982747
>Am I really supposed to press the buttons while it's in stand-by?
Yes.
>Because it turns on after I press the TV button
Yes.
>>1982751
Try again, i do recall that sometimes it didn't worked.

>>1982764
Thank you very much. I finally got into the service menu after a few more tries. I already changed the settings but seemed to notice that the TV uses Over scan. Is there a way to force Under scan?

>>1982820
Great that you seem to have the same problems as i had.
No, it's not possible to change horizontal size and changing the vertical size screws up the linearity.
btw do you see a white stain on the upper left corner, it really stands out when the screen is dark/black.

I have a cheap Bush TV/VHS combo here. Anybody got any idea how I can access its service menu? btv19sil if it helps.

>>1982887
>btv19sil

I found this code on a Russian web site, not sure if it will help you (google translate)

>Luchishin: to enter in the data need to press VOL- on mashines and 6 on the remote .. at 113 instead of 00 to enter 07 Press ENTER to SEKAM it for proca

>>1982834
>btw do you see a white stain on the upper left corner, it really stands out when the screen is dark/black.
Yeah, my TV has there one too. Although it's not in every game (or rather, I don't see it in every game). Thought about degaussing it and look if this solves it.

>someone posted last thread's OP on /v/
>instant shitposting

>>1982962
link?

>>1982887
>>1982952

you could also gives these a go.

>>1982965
>>>/v/266476612

>>1982952

I held VOL- on my set and 6 on my remote, now it's overlayed the following on my screen.
INIT 0B4 06
POWER ON 01C6
PLAY/REC 0006

>>1982969
thanks!

>reading

oh god.

>>1982972
can you navigate up or down?

could that be the service menu for the VCR?

>>1982976

Nope. I tried volume and channel up and down on both the set and the remote and nothing happens.
I was testing it as it was set to a channel and displaying static and it did that. I changed the channel to AV (it has a single SCART port) and it won't enter the menu again.

>>1982981
did you try any of the other codes?
>>1982968

are you saying you can't get out of that overlay?

(unplug the set?)

>>1982986

I entered the overlay fine. I switched the set to standby then turned it on again, then switched it to the AV channel. I entered the vol- & 6 code and it didn't display the overlay. I changed to the static channel and it wouldn't display the overlay again. Both buttons still work since I can adjust the volume and change the channel on the set and remote respectively.
I'm trying the other codes now.

>>1982992
service menu's sometimes will only show up on one specific input or channel.

>>1982954
This has nothing to do with purity.
I know what it is.
Every modern CRT has a automatic cutoff control where the RGB amp limits itself to protect the CRT from voltage spikes in the signals.
Now some test impulses are inserted into the overscan and the tube current is measured during that time.
The measured current is stored/saved and used as limit.
My other Trinitrons with their Philips/STmicroelectronics chips (starting with TDA/TEA) have 4 test lines that are black, red, green and blue and the intensity is set after the contrast+brightness setting.
The KV-M1450D with it's Motorola IC (MC44002) has different looking impulses, they are insanely bright and get visibly reflected to screen causing that white stain.
But that wasn't my only problem with this set, i found out that it has a certain capacitance on the RGB input.
I just made pic related to demonstrate the issue, it's not so apparent in most applications but sometimes it stands out.
And the other problem that i have only with this set is that a weak signal is shown with a great amount noise on both composite and RGB, on the other Trinitrons it's just dark.
Not a bad Trinitron but i prefer my older KV-M1400D with it's ruined case, and have the KV-M1450D as backup in my attic.
And it a caused by the tube, both sets have the exact same one.

>>1982994

I'm trying on a bunch of different channels and it won't do it.

>>1983008
did you try this one

>press the up and down programme button together then press the menu button while still holding down the programme buttons.the menu will come up then you can use the volume up and down to toggle on what you want.

>>1983010

I've tried that code and the other codes here >>1982968

And no luck.

There's a thread on /v/ with people shitting on CRTs.
Hurr in this day and age LCD is the only way to go
I'm being triggered

>>1983015

It depends on the game. If it's a 3D PC game you can run at any resolution then there's not that much of an issue. If it's a 7th or 8th gen game then it doesn't matter.
Link to the thread?

>>1983016
>f it's a 3D PC game you can run at any resolution then there's not that much of an issue.

Better response time are alway better anon. There's a real advantage using a CRT in a Quake 3 or Quake Live duel.

>>1983015
>going on /v/

>>1983007
That certainly is interesting. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. Is there a way to fix this?

>>1983012

well, then only thing I can sugest is you should find the btv19sil "service manual"

that should have the correct procedure for getting into the service menu.

you might have to contact a repair company or the company that made the TV. also check on ebay.

>>1983019

Oh absolutely. But if you're not diehard about reflexes then it doesn't matter as much.

>>1983019
same

I was just playing Mario Galaxy and it plays much better on a CRT (480i or 480p)

(I think it looks better too)

>>1983027

Thanks to the better colors and contrasts, yeah, it looks better too.

what's the best way to connect my PC to my CRT television? i want to use component

>>1983032

Some graphics cards have VIVO ports which can output Component, IIRC. Failing that, VGA through a transcoder might be worth it but pricy.

>>1983032
you either need a video processor (dvdo) or some way of getting sync out of your GPU.

a scan converter could also do the trick.

best one is the mimo genius 2 (240p)

or the exatron vf50 (480i only)

>>1983031
>Thanks to the better colors and contrasts

SMPTE-C phosphors for the win!

>>1983040
>exatron vf50

sorry, its the Extron VSC500

I have my kv27-fs100 wega hooked to my pc with that. (playing dioblo 3)

I got it for $50

>>1983040
VGA has sync it's just much higher frequency

>>1983035
Transcoders are only like $50-$60 but he'll need to get the sync down to 15khz

>>1983032
The most compatible hacked driver to do it is soft15khz and that'll probably be good enough if you just want to hook to a consumer TV. crt_emudriver has more options, for arcade and prograde RGB monitors but lower compatibility (only some AMD cards). Check your card for compatibility.

>>1983032
what model of TV do you have?

>>1983021
>fixing the white stain
Nope, building a new chassis (TV motherboard) from scratch will do.
>fixing the RGB capacitance
Yes but tricky, requires good soldering skills and practice with CRT internals.
Replacing that resistor network that sums the OSD RGB and the SCART input with an CMOS 4053 could work out. I didn't done that as the white stain bothered me too much.
>combating potentional video noise
Make sure that the SCART connection is good, i know that dry solder joints can cause a unbearable amount of noise. It looked a badly tuned RF channel.

And thank you for answering my question, now i know that all of them have this oddity.

>>1983035
i'm aware of cards with s-vid out, but i've never actually seen component. i never knew about VIVO though, maybe i was mistaking that for S-video because the ports look similar. all cards with that are pretty weak regardless, but i don't think i'd need much power if i'm going to be on my TV.

>>1983051
ive heard of those drivers. if i can get proper sync, can i just need to create a modeline and get a DVI-I to component adapter?

NVIDIA's custom resolution tool has an option for creating a modeline with an interlaced signal. is that something worth looking into?

>>1983052
its a 27" panasonic. i'd have to move shit to see the model number. just a standard CRT, but its not bad

>>1983051

>27" panasonic

what do you want to play on it?

(do you know if it can display 480p?)

>>1983069
it can't do 480p. doesnt work when switching to progressive on my gamecube
i'd like to run retroarch from the PC, but i can settle for the wii port if its too much

>>1983065
>>1983069

if you don't care about 240p resolutions

then just get this, it can output your pc signal (up to 1080p) and convert it to 480i over component/rgb or s-video.

somebody has one up for 59$ on ebay right now.

>>1983078

the only thing your miss out on with wii port is NeoGeo games over 20mb (right?)

but at lest you can get real 240p

>>1983078
>>1983083

You could also build a cheep little lynx computer for retroarch and have it easily output 240p/480i

(look up groovy arcade)

>>1983078
>>1983089

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAXnOKSZOjs

>>1983097
>>1983078

I have my pc (running a groovy arcade live cd)

hooked up to tv with this.

>>1983083
i don't want to give up 240p. retroarch for wii has a lot fewer cores and options, as well as less accurate cores due to the wii's low power. i want to try messing with shaders too

>>1983089
>>1983097
groovy arcade looks promising.

>>1983103
that looks like what i need..awesome

so i'd just boot this distro with a compatible card and that adapter? my wallet likes this idea

>>1983114

yeah, but I think it has to be an ATI card

>>1983115
sorry, I meant "AMD gpu"

ati, lol

>>1983115
just bought an adapter for a couple bucks. i'll check back in when it gets here...10 days or so

What determines how wide the electron beam in a CRT is?

>>1983114
if you want to display 240p via VGA you need a transcoder

>>1983103
must be terrible quality

>>1983194
No, it looks awesome.

why would it look bad?

>>1983201
please take up close pics.

You usually need to have some sort of external processor for max quality if running MAME to TV. If you want native 240p from VGA you need to transcode to component. otherwise an upscaler to LCD.

what kind of TV do you have / what resolution are you running?

>>1983192
The voltage applied to the Wehneltcylinder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehnelt_cylinder

>>1983207
You must have the wrong idea about something.
Certain cards can output native 240p with special software, no transcoders needed.

It looks just fine.

>>1983214
I know , but something like this >>1983103
will usually output to shitty 480i. can you link the product page for that thing? Converters like that are normally thought of as the absolute worst quality signal

>just fine
If i wanted "just fine" I'd just use a native vga flatscreen.

>>1983209

Neat. I was wondering since the scanlines on my TV seem too harsh and too thick.

>>1983227
That's no converter, that's just a cable.

>>1983192
>>1983209

also, vertical resolution to an extent.
a hi res vga crt will have thicker lines at 480p than at 1200p

>>1983238
so they TV being input to accepts RGB?

>>1983246
It's for either of two less common scenarios:

1. Video card has a mode that outputs component through VGA out.

2. Video processor or display accepts VGA through RCA inputs.

>>1983246
its a Sony, so it can do "snyc on green"

>>1983103

I bought that cable just to give it a try.
and it doesnt work on my sony trinitron.

the only reason to connect my pc to my crt tv is for emulator light gun games using my guncon 2.

can that lightgun work through a converter?

I'm asking because it's usb but also have an rca connector that sync the tv with the gun.

my video card only have 2 dvi and 1 m-hdmi.
its a 560GTX

>>1983294
perhaps you should use the KD-VTCA3?

its on ebay for $40, look up what it does.

>>1983294
>>1983306

http://www.keydigital.com/Owner%20Manuals/ClearColor3_Manual.pdf

>>1983294

does gun-con only work on composite?

>>1983312

I think you need one of the first model Playstations which have both AV Multi Out and RCA jacks on the back.

>>1983312
It needs a composite sync signal. Should work fine on the Y signal of a component or s-video connection.

>>1983323

Does the PS1 do component or is that only the PS2?

>>1983325
PS1 doesn't do component.

>>1983325
PS2 only

>>1983323
>>1983312

I connected my laptop to my tv via s-video
and still works.

I just plugged the guncon via rca
and the guncon rca was in another input, not even touching the s-video sources.
I'm asking if someone tried this before.
I think the gun rca only recognize the HZ at the tv is working..

>>1983325

PS1 output RGB, but no component.

>>1983323

Are the Y signals of component and s-video the same as a composite video signal, but without the chroma subcarrier?

>>1983246
That seems most likely
My cable is just like that and it's basically VGA > RGB I don't it could work any other way

>>1983351
component is rgb too right?

>>1983354

No it isn't.

>>1983340
Yes. They're effectively black-and-white television signals. S-video then carries the modulated NTSC chroma signal on a separate wire. Component (YPbPr) video carries a pair of unmodulated Pb/Pr signals on two more wires.

>>1983354
"Component" usually refers to color-difference video - Y, Pb, and Pr channels. RGB is technically a form of component video, but YPbPr is almost universally what people mean.

>>1983334
>I think the gun rca only recognize the HZ at the tv is working..
It only looks for the synchronization signals. It's got an optical sensor which sees a strobing light each time the electron beam passes a specific part of the screen. It times this strobe versus the synchronization signals to derive where you're pointing.

>>1983360

I suspected as much but it's as good to know for certain.

Is it common for a trinitron (consumer one) to not be able to use audio out + speakers? I bought one at a salvation army for $10 (kv-20fv12) and figured with the audio out (to a cap card) i wouldn't need splitters for the audio

turns out speakers need to be disable, oh well

>>1983370

Pretty common, using the audio out mutes the built in speakers so you can use a surround sound whatever.

>>1983351
that's where transcoders come in. for 240p I mean

>>1983375
I've never tried it with my 32kv13, but with my 27hs420, leaving the TV speakers on cut the volume of the audio out by at least half; Disabling this immediately raises it back to normal.

>>1983382
soo...if i wanted 240p from my pc to my CRT tv i need groovy arcade, that adapter, and a transcoder too? something like >>1983306 ?

>>1983382
>>1983486
No, a transcoder doesn't do anything resolution-wise.

>>1983501

Do transcoders just convert colour space and transparently pass through sync?

>>1983506
They should.

>>1983501
that's the point. If you want to downscale 480i and up to 240p you need a downscaler like extron emotia series

>>1983486
unless you have an RGB CRT set like PVMs or NEC multisync / mitsubishi megaview, etc. then you'll need soft15khz or CRTemudriver + transcoder . Not sure what adapter your thinking?

here is some reading on the topic:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121491.0.html

very informative stuff

>>1983506
Yes.

>>1983042
I have those on my PVM. Most have P22

>>1983538
>that's the point
Yes, mine.

>>1983542
>>1983525

So, it doesn't matter how fast your sync signals are, the video will always be processed correctly?

>>1983549
holy shit you're retarded. true champion of CRT technologies

>>1983551
myep

>>1983554
hugs

It looks like my old Dell LCD monitor is dying, so i'm getting a CRT one from a friend for my PC

How will this affect my gaming, guys, i'm going from NES emulation to last gen gaming.

It's been almost a decade since my last CRT monitor.

>>1983572

It's gonna look awesome and feel far more responsive.

>>1983538
i keep getting conflicting information whenever i look this up, same goes for threads like this. i just don't know man

tl:dr: how to linux box to CRT TV @ 240p using component cheaply and without quality loss or lag?

>>1983572
Holy fuck i meant Dell TFT

I'm stupid when sleepy

Also emulating PSOne with Retroarch's Mednafen core. How much will the experience improve?

>>1983551
There's going to be some limits, but they'll generally be far beyond where it matters.

>>1983580
TFT and LCD are basically the same thing.
But how old was your monitor?
Mine is from 2005, it's impressive but i always had the backlight set to 0.

>>1983578
RGB->YPbPr transcoder, 15KHz native video output from PC.

You can also rig up a software colorspace solution, but it's not pretty. This is a direct RGB->YPbPr cable from my PC, with a special video mode + software to "emulate" the component video signal.

>>1983583

>software colorspace solution
How does that work, and how is it unpleasant?

>>1983583
Here's the RGB signal I'm scanning out. Note the blanking/sync signals embedded. You need a very lenient TV to make it work, and the gamma is totally wrong.

>>1983584
Your VGA card will scan out any arbitrary RGB buffer as voltages on the R/G/B lines. You can craft a custom video mode that has...
1. 263 lines at the right rate
2. Absolutely minimal (ideally, no) blanking or setup time
...and use that to get essentially direct control over the RGB voltages. Then, you can "render" a component video signal on them.

Initially I was trying to render an NTSC composite signal, but I couldn't get a stable enough chroma frequency to fool the TV.

>tfw no Trinitron
>tfw never Trinitron

;_;

>>1983587

So your PC does the RGB -> YPbPr transcoding so you don't have to purchase another device? Is there way you can embed the csync in the Y signal this way too?
As a poorfag this sounds very, very useful.

>>1983594
>So your PC does the RGB -> YPbPr transcoding so you don't have to purchase another device?
Ideally, yes. I don't have an entirely correct implementation, because I was sort of working "blind" in software without checking the voltage levels exactly.

>Is there way you can embed the csync in the Y signal this way too?
That's exactly what I'm doing - check the bottom-right edges of this:
>>1983585
Unfortunately, my Radeon forces the R/G/B lines to 0 (or something close) during the VGA blanking/sync intervals, and I can't disable that. I managed to crunch it down to 5 or 6 pixel clocks in hblank and 4 or 5 lines in vblank, though.

>>1983582
TBH i don't know, it's pretty old actually, a friend gave it to me and i used it for monitoring GPU, CPU and RAM load before my main display died. My current display is a Dell 1504FP connected via DVI.

I can't say i'm not happy with it, but that ugly mark of my first photo (Leak? Burn?) Appeared months ago and it's only getting worse, so i'm replacing it with an old 17" CRT before i can buy a "proper" monitor.

I remember everything being pretty smooth with my deceased CRT display, but i'm worried about it being only rose-tinted glasses and doing the change for worse, even if it's only temporary

>>1983585
>>1983583

>>1983596

Oh, so you coded this all by hand?
I'm very impressed.

>>1983605
Give me a minute to post it.

http://pastebin.com/D9Y5DWyk

You can screw around with the source code if you like. It doesn't do anything useful, just renders an image into that fake "signal" using GL. I intended to hook it into Xorg or something so I could run arbitrary programs using it as output, but I got bored and stopped.

>>1983612

Well, I have no programming experience so this is absolutely useless for me. Thanks regardless, I'm impressed that you attempted this.

>>1983585
If someone can figure this software fix for component out then we wouldn't need transcoders any more. That'd be awesome.

>tfw no l5
>tfw 480i
>tfw reading text at 480i
I know the PS2 library only has a few games that do 480p but damn I need an l5.

>>1983615
It's an ugly hack, but it basically works already if you've got a good TV. Somebody just needs to grab the source code and make it actually take input from something useful.

>>1983615
>we wouldn't need transcoders any more
>we
emu users only
real console players using component-equipped TVs will still need them, as using a PC to do it would introduce lag compared to simple devices like transcoders

>>1983625

You know exactly what he meant, you don't need to be so picky.

When are we getting the 240p test suite on the playstation?
I don't have rgb for my dreamcast and don't want to test color through composite.

>>1983629
yeah but not everyone might
nothing wrong with spelling it out for everyone's benefit

>my Goodwills are so shitty they have no CRT's

Any tips on where to find one?

>>1983658
Craigslist
Other thrift stores(could be phasing out CRTs just like goodwills)
Salvation Army(still see tons here)
side of the road?

>>1983585
I know analogue video technology and i see what you are trying to do.
>color difference signals
You're not supposed to blank them, they must remain in the 'middle' during blanking.
Also i tried to recombine that in GIMP but the colors are wrong.
>serration/equalizing impulses
Not necessary, unless you're working with a TV made before the 1970s.

>>1983596
>and 4 or 5 lines in vblank, though.
I would ditch the idea of an direct connection. Making a SyncOnGreen adapter would be good idea and the resulting circuit would be more simple than a full blown transcoder.

>>1983562
confirmed faggot

>>1983690
>You're not supposed to blank them, they must remain in the 'middle' during blanking.
Ah, alright. That's why they're neutral in the front/back porches - I figured out quickly that the TV was expecting them to remain centered outside the active video area. Didn't know exactly how far, though.

>Not necessary, unless you're working with a TV made before the 1970s.
I was going by what the documentation said - I found a reference of a video signal that looked just like that.


>Also i tried to recombine that in GIMP but the colors are wrong.
Yeah, they're probably off a bit. I'm probably biasing the color channels wrong (and obviously, I'm doing entirely linear math). You can check out the matrix I used in the source.

>I would ditch the idea of an direct connection. Making a SyncOnGreen adapter would be good idea and the resulting circuit would be more simple than a full blown transcoder.
Initially, my hope was to actually generate a composite signal using one of the channels, so I wanted sync generated in software. I would probably go with a SoG adapter + Xorg colorspace tweaks for serious use. Ideally you should be able to define a color transformation matrix for each output in X (and just build the YPbPr signal like that), but it's finicky at best.

>>1983583
>RGB->YPbPr transcoder
which one is recommended?

>>1983708
>I was going by what the documentation said
Yeah. Most /vr/ hardware go against it, especially the ones that output non-interlaced video.

>I'm probably biasing the color channels wrong
Yes, 159 instead of 128 because of your blanking mishap.

>You can check out the matrix I used in the source.
Just did.
Man, you made some typos.
>0.5, -0.419, 0.081, 0.5, \
0.5, -0.419, -0.081, 0.5, \
>0.299, 0.587, 0.144, 0.0, \
0.299, 0.587, 0.114, 0.0, \
>-0.169, -0.331, 0.5, 0.5, \
That one is okay.

>>1983727
http://www.crescendo-systems.com/transcoder.html

heard good things about this one. Apparently the 1500 is good enough because you can do gamma correction and whatnot from your PC

>>1983745
>typos
Fuck. Thanks, Obama.

>>1983727
whichever one your monitor accepts

>>1983727
oh sorry, I read that wrong, I'm retarded, I have an audio authority 960A, works great

>>1983658
pawn shops might carry some

>>1983752
One last thing. I know that a lowpass is used in the NES for video to form the color subcarrier into a triangle wave because the majority of chroma decoders don't work with a square shaped subcarrier.

>>1983761
Yeah, I tried all different kinds of colorburst I could think of. Square, triangle, sine, both saws, etc. I don't think I was getting the frequency quite right. No way of knowing if the Radeon card was really giving me the dot clock I asked for (I don't really have the right equipment for this, if you can't tell).

>>1983757
how is it with 240p?

>>1983757
>audio authority 960A
i can't find any info on this , can you link a product page ?

>>1983701
kisses

>>1983776
think he meant 9a60a

>getting the grid straight
Fucking how
Its always squiggly in the middle cause of all these damn settings

>>1983772
lol

>>1983782
ah. I think i'd rather go with the tc1500. They guy who makes them is awesome according to shmups forum

I already asked this question on emugeneral on /vg/ but I suspect it'll go unanswered and get buried under other posts just like every other time I've asked a question there so here goes.

I like the Wii version of retroarch because it lets you switch to 240p resolutions, however, it isn't powerful enough to run everything I'd like it to (namely GBA, which is lovely with scanlines). I need something more powerful/optimized.

The only other console that does SD (and potentially 240p) resolutions is the original Xbox, which is easy to mod and has a version of retroarch (like everything else). I've heard the Xbox is (debatably) more powerful than the Wii, so I would like to know if there's anyone in these threads who knows if it can run stuff like GBA well and also has can run in 240p.

>>1984054
are you xbox can do 240p with emulators?

I've never seen it do that. only 480i/p or 720p

>>1984064

I'm asking if anyone in these threads has a modded Xbox and can check.

According to emugeneral it can only do 480i, 480p, and 720p.

>how do I hook my PC up to the TV?

> everybody answers with retardation

there are tons of ways to hook a PC up to a TV.

color space conversion is usually the biggest problem, and that's easily solved with a decent transcoder. (or an even cheaper solution like an RGB interface)

alternatively, you could just get professional monitor (Like a BVM or PVM) one that has support for both RGB and component, just use a BNC five cable (BNC tri adapter for sync)

and tell your video card output to 240p

or get a VGA monitor and you superwide resolutions (3800x244p)

you can literally do anything. just pick one.

>>1984069
I'm looking at my options in ZsnesXbox and only gives me 480i, 480p, and 720p

>>1984084
and 1080i

>>1984081
>yo, everyone's retarded so i'll be the one genius to break it all down the way it really is, MAAAAAN

egotistical yet anonymous writing is so damn annoying

>>1984081

I hook up my PC to my HDTV using HDMI.

>>1983083
I actually just got a hold of an Extron RGB 203 Rxi and VSC 700. Need to get around to buying a reel of coaxial cable, BNC connectors, and crimping tools to make some custom length cords to set it up with my PVM's.

Could I use pic related with component cables? The YPbPr in the video in and sound in jack ins. Since the cable doesn't have any information itself, it should work shouldn't it? Or would I need to resolder the pins in the adapter to make it work?

>>1984336
Why do I always see people in these threads trying to do dumb shit with these things?

>feeding component video into the sound input

>>1984346
I'm sorry for not knowing much.
But like I wrote, the cables itself don't have any information, they just carry the signals.
What pins would I need to resolder to make this work, if at all?

>>1984349
The TV wants a RGB signal, not YPbPr.

>>1984171
>D'oh, somebody is more knowledgeable than me.

> I know, I'll call them egotistical.


hey at least I was trying to help, didn't see anybody else coming up with answers.

>>1984336
Wouldn't work. Scart doesn't carry a YPbPr signal, and that particular adapter is only wired for composite. If you plugged the Y into the composite video jack, you might get a grayscale video signal, but plugging the Pb and Pr carrying cables into the left and right audio jacks wouldn't do anything.

Scart can't natively carry s-video either, so that s-video input would have the chrominance and luminance combined and wired to the Scart side's composite pin, giving a composite signal rife with checkerboard patterned visual noise.

>>1984429

>SCART can't natively carry S-Video either
I'm sick of hearing this myth. While it's true that S-Video was added to the standard later and therefore not many TVs supported it, SCART can do S-Video. My TV can do S-Video through SCART.

>>1984336

That wouldn't work at all. What are you trying to accomplish?

>>1984467
I wanted to use my Wii on my CRT but I don't have a RGB SCART cable and only a component cable. My CRT doesn't have a component input so I thought about using this adapter. Well, then I've got to either buy a SCART<>YPbPr Transcoder or a RGB SCART cable.

>>1984480

>13 bucks for a Wii RGB cable

You know the answer anon.

>>1984480

Transcoders tend to be pricier. I think it's better to get an RGB SCART cable.
You need to be careful, though. What region is your Wii?

>>1983612
Wait, what does this ev-HOOOOOOLY SHIT.
You mad GENIUS.

>>1984482
If my idea would have worked, I wouldn't need to spend money but yeah. I'll probably get the SCART cable.
>>1984483
It's a PAL Wii. Do they have different pin layouts or what should I be aware of?

>>1984501

No.
When the Wii tries to output an NTSC signal over RGB SCART, the video processor doesn't handle it correctly and instead displays an image with an intense red tint.
However, it handles PAL and PAL60 (which is identical to NTSC when it comes to framerate and resolution, the only difference is colour encoding over composite) perfectly fine.
You'll need to set your emulators and, if you have them, USB loaders to use PAL or PAL60 video modes.

>>1984505
>When the Wii tries to output an NTSC signal over RGB SCART

That's what you get for trying to get a composite signal over an RGB cable.

>>1984509

I don't think it means literal NTSC/PAL/PAL60, that's just what the game requests of the video encoder and then it determines the appropriate signal given the cable. Since an RGB SCART cable wouldn't be relevant for US or Japanese consoles/games and only those would be requesting NTSC, it simply wasn't designed to turn that data into RGB signals.
The same three options are available when using component video cables, along with 480p.

Is there any harm in leaving my CRT displaying a completely black image for an extended period of time?

>>1984615

Well you're using it for nothing, and the electron gun have a finite numbers of electron hat it can throw at the phosphor glass, so yeah, you're diminishing it's life expectancy by doing nothing. Better leave it turned off.

>>1984629

>The electron gun have a finite number of electrons that it can throw at the phosphor
But if the image is true black, is it firing anything?

>>1984629
>and the electron gun have a finite numbers of electron hat it can throw at the phosphor glass
There is so much wrong with this statement

>>1984629
>the electron gun have a finite numbers of electron hat it can throw at the phosphor glass,

>>1984402
>tfw it continues

>>1984615
Yes, the rest of the internal electronics are running and the electron guns still display their test(cutoff current measurement) impulses in the overscan.
>completely black image
If you would dim your room as much as possible then you would see that CRT glows a little bit.
However, a black image shouldn't cause burn-ins.

>>1984687

So what would be the result of leaving it on?

>>1984705
>the rest of the internal electronics are running

>>1984649
>>1984647

There's nothing wrong with that statement. Electron guns have a limited life, depending on how much you use them: the more you use them, the sooner it will die.
Do you think they can throw electrons at the phosphor-coated face of the tube indefinitely?

>>1984732
An electron gun doesn't run out of electrons, the components that make it up wear down and eventually fail. Someone can't into electromagnetism.

>>1984081
the TC transcoders and the 9a60a say they can do 480p 720p and 1080i..but my CRT TV doesn't work with progressive scan. what are my options?

>>1984768
>An electron gun doesn't run out of electrons

And my post didn't said that at all. Well, it's true that i should have formulated it differently though.

Anyway, WTF was my previous post deleted?

>>1984791

If it's a transcoder and not a scaler then it shouldn't matter.

>>1984768
>An electron gun doesn't run out of electrons

And my post didn't said that at all. Well, it's true that i should have formulated it differently though.

Anyway, why the fuck was my previous post deleted?

>>1982553

I can get a Sony Trinitron for 10 bucks. Should I do it?

>>1984920

Any idea what ports it has?
I'd say do it regardless but it's good to know regardless

>>1984921

I will find out tomorrow when I get a look on that thing.

I have a 100Hz CRT. I previously tested its input lag on 240p and 480i signals with 240p test suite on Wii and a reference regular CRT but I'd like to know if it has the same amount of lag on 480p signals. The frame holding function doesn't work on 480p signals so I'm hoping that these signals bypass whatever framebuffer the TV has inside.
The only input it accepts 480p signals on is component and I don't have anything else I can use as a reference. Is there any easy way to measure this?

I can't wait for an update when that giant 45 inch Trinitron, mentioned in the last thread, arrives on that ship from Japan. A screen like that is the stuff of CRT legend and the unboxing of that beast will be a momentous occasion indeed.

I'm looking to get a Sony BVM 20F1U. Is it good to also use for PS2/GC/XB? How much do they usually go for?

>>1984935
>45" trinitron

How the fuck? I've never heard of any CRT larger than 40". I know people often confuse rear-projection TVs with CRTs, but I hope this isn't the case.

Ok /vr/ i finally got a LG Studioworks 552V. Not like i had a choice but, what can you tell me about it?

85 Hz and 1024x768 of recommended max. resolution, not like i'm going to use higher res. but a bit dissapointed in that regards. Playing with Catalyst i can take it up to 720p, but it doesn't let me scale the image to full screen.

Image has like a blue tint and i'm correcting it with AMD Catalyst (face buttons are a pain to use, and they seem to be a bit worn out)

Advices? Toughts?

>>1985034
>I know people often confuse rear-projection TVs with CRTs, but I hope this isn't the case.
It's not.
>>1980828

>>1985034
It is indeed a 45 inch Trintron direct view CRT. Japan only, exotic as fuck, 200kg, and cost around $30k adjusted for inflation (came out in 89).

>get outbid in last 2 seconds
Fuck you I hope it gets dropped in shipping

Decided to take a picture of the intro to metal warriors on my PVM and it looks pretty slick i think

>>1985157
>metal warriors
gonna download based off this pic

>>1984934
>and I don't have anything else I can use as a reference
You don't have a PC monitor?

>>1985259

I don't have a PC CRT. I have several PC monitors but nothing I can use as a time reference.

>>1985267
You should be able to use a PC LCD monitor and take into account the monitor's advertised response time, then use that as a time refrence.

>>1985229
its a pretty cool mech game

>>1985272
Response time != latency

>>1985272

I'm not sure how I'd go about that... Last time I tested the screen, I just used a passive splitter like pic related to plug one composite source from my Wii into two screens then took photographs as 240p Test Suite counted frames. I'd have to do something with cables I haven't done before to do that.

>>1985285

Also this

Does anyone know what gives the best comb filter for composite signal. Do some 15khz rgb monitors provide a good comb filter or should I look for one in a dvd recorder or stand alone like a extron. I want to play some games in composite because heavy dithering has better blending over composite.

>>1985315
Pro monitors and pro processors will have very good comb filters, as will late-model high-end TVs.

I think some of the Extron processors actually have horizontal "sharpness" adjustments that you can use to blur over the dithering.

Is there any problem with using the height and width settings on my set to stretch a windowboxed image (240p centred in 480p, for example) to fill the display?

>>1985332
"Good comb filter" often means "3D comb filter", which is terrible for games because of added latency. ("3D" means it looks at multiple frames, so it has to buffer them).

>>1985942
Not really, you'll just have a fun time adjusting them back when you put in a 480i signal again.

Are you using a PVM? It should have an over-scan function that might help. BVMs are really nice about this, since you can store about a hundred calibration presets for specific games and such.

>>1985315
Most consumer TVs should have a good enough comb filter. Look in the advertising materials/spec sheets, avoid a "3D Comb filter" or anything sounding like that though.

>>1985332
Be aware, some PVM's don't have a comb filter. It it's suffixed with a Q (e.g. PVM-8042Q), this means no comb filter.

>circa 2011-2012
>in high school
>no job
>would spend my time cruising around in my station wagon picking up scrap on the side of the road for cash
>over the course of two years acquired over 40 CRTs
>would break every single one open, scavenge all the parts, then trash the frame and tube
>scrapped everything from a 9" TV/VCR combo to a 30"+ Triniton to PVMs
>thought nothing of it
>start reading these threads
>feel bad about destroying a diminishing commodity for a few extra bucks in scrap

W-will you ever forgive me, /vr/?

>>1986176
There's no way you were actually making a profit on that, after fuel costs.

>>1982553
Is there any way to get a tiny scratch out of a CRT monitor screen?

I recently picked up a 21" Dell Trinitron from craigslist and after awhile I noticed ~1 cm long, hair thick scratch on the bottom right side of the screen. It only shows up against light backgrounds, and even then it's not that noticeable, but if there's a quick easy fix for it, I'd rather it be gone.

>>1986180

If it's a computer monitor, there's probably an anti-glare layer on top of the glass. Take off the monitor bezel and peel it off, it's kinda like a cell phone screen protector.

Enjoy your deeper blacks and sharper contrast.

>>1986179
Probably not, but it gave me something to do and took my mind off things. But the people in my neighborhood loved to throw things out. If anything I broke even. Being a teenager was fun...

>>1986062
Yeah I will avoid 3D comb filters. I don't want all that heavy digital processing.

Also, the 8042Q does have a comb filter so it's not true for all Q models.
>users.rowan.edu/.../manuals/Sony%20PVM5041QSeriesBrochure.pdf
The 1354Q does not have a comb filter.
>www.avss.com/pdf/monitors/sony_pvm-1354q.pdf
So its best to find the manual before buying.

>>1984791
I got the 9A60, it does 240p fine. They just don't advertise that because no one but weirdos like us out put 240p over vga cables.

>>1986221
sorry bad link.
>http://users.rowan.edu/~winkler/equipindex/manuals/Sony%20PVM5041QSeriesBrochure.pdf

>>1986176
If it was on the side of the road it was probably broken shit anyway.

>>1985137
I'd love to have one of those for DC/PS2/GCN/XBox/Wii. Hope the shipment goes without a hitch for you, I'm looking forward to your pics/videos.

>>1985332
>Pro monitors and pro processors will have very good comb filters
That blanket statement isn't accurate. Some have no comb filter at all.

>>1985967
Exactly right. Always avoid temporal comb filters for game systems if/whenever you have to resort to composite.

>>1986223
>it does 240p fine
Of course it does, colorspace translation is resolution-independent. They only advertise common resolutions for marketing purposes.

>>1986234
Not a safe assumption, at least in the U.S. Some people just don't bother with Craigslist or donation services for working stuff they just don't care about any more, they just abandon it outside.

>That feel when no one near you has small Trintirons
>That feel when you advertise on Craigslist for over a year for a PVM with no bites
>See all the horror of people getting them shipped to them in lousy condition.

The suffering is real

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PVM-20L2-Trinitron-Color-Video-Monitor-w-BKM-120D-Module-Tested-READ-/191326926238?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c8bf9359e

low ball em and you might get lucky

>>1985075
Seems like typical crappy old CRT. I'd get rid of it.

Search for a better monitor. I got a 19'' that does 1600x1200@75hz for only $3 at my local goodwill.

>>1985137
I have an XBR^2, it looks great, 1992, 20k when it came out
Heavy as fuck, though I don't really know how heavy it actually is

>>1986189
How do I remove the bezel? Can I just pry it off with a butter knife?

>>1986450
Nah, with CRTs it's a pretty involved process, involves taking off the back shell and unmounting the tube from the bezel piece.

>>1986456
Is there a guide for doing this on the internet? Google didn't help me.

>>1986461
Nothing really specific, it's pretty self explanatory, just take it apart until you have the tube and chassis out of the housing.

From there you should be able to take a razor blade and peel off the AG coating, it's kind of like car window tint.

Just don't kill yourself, k?

>>1984934
240p test suite, has a 480p mode

why not just use that to test lag at 480p?

>>1986465
Does the ag coating just peel right off or do I need to soak it in water first?

>>1986485
Soaking is probably a good idea.

>>1986485
>>1986450

phone dork has a video of him removing the coating on a crt.

(at 2:40)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPbDvqFdjG4

>>1986334
check distant craigslists and ebay in distant locations

save up

set up a deal

go on a nice vacation there

pick it up, pack it carefully yourself, bring it home

>>1986334
haiiiii

>>1985075
>LG Studioworks 552V

seems nice for a small crt. how do you have hooked up to a ps2?

>Image has like a blue tint

probably just needs to be de-magnetized or "degassed", and you might need to adjust the "beem landing"

or you just need to adjust the color temp.

you have the manual?

(http://download.qrz.ru/pub/hamradio/schemes/monitors/lg/LG-D556/lg-studioworks-552v-d556q.pdf))

>>1986520

>>1986527

>>1986520
you the same guy who has like three broken monitors?

did you ever try adjusting the landing? or adding strips to the back of the tubes?

>>1986531
At least this bish works... 4th time's a charm, right?

>>1986531
have tried a real degaussing coil?

I thought mine was broken until I spent over an hour demagnetising it

looked just like yours.

>>1986536
your probably just need to repair the other ones.

I've had three PVMs arrive busted, had too fix them myself.

>>1986536
But then you have to play on an 8 inch display...

Is that an 8042Q? Sucks that it's only 250 lines, if so.

I've got the HR version of that, at 450 lines, and you can tell it's had a long, harsh life. I have to crank up the saturation to get any color out of it, the S-video input has issues, etc. etc. It's nice and sharp, just bad color, mostly.

Good for a portable test monitor though.

I'd really like a 5041Q for the lolz tho

>>1986520
don't pay until they show you the packaging. that's what I do.

if they get pissed, I say fuck-em

its my money, take it or leave it!

>>1986545
did you try adjust the internal brightness in the service menu?

that can help a lot.

(what model do you have?)

>>1986534
PVM-20M4U: was "inspected" by UPS (then confiscated, and sent back to the shipper at his expense) -- I think the C-board could've been repaired.

PVM-14M4U: Blue gun is supposedly dying, based on testing the tube against a waveform with an oscilloscope, but >>1986535 gives me hope; I'll try hitting it with my coil some more (pic related)

Olympus OEV-203: I think the aperture grille is damaged because of the way the red, green, and blue discoloration wobbles around when you power the monitor on/move the monitor

>>1986550
8045Q, no OSD as far as I know.

I haven't tried adjusting the RGB Bias/Gains yet, however.

The S-video input has a unique issue, when displaying a signal, it will start out sharp, then over 1-2 seconds will get fuzzy, and 'snap' to sharp again, as if someone is dicking with the focus controls. How quickly this happens is directly related to how high I have the contrast set. I suspect its a bad capacitor somewhere.

>>1986553
have you tried adjusting the beem landing on any of these?

or doing a magnetite pull?

if you can see pure blue in the ntsc colour test when you change the magnetic field, you should be able to fix it.

>>1986543
I'll try to see what I can do to fix what I have. Looks like Mr. OEV203 is staying around even after a refund, so I'll see what I can do. Looks like it thinks a remote is plugged in or something, the light is on and I can't adjust anything with the pots on the front.

>>1986545
Yeah, its an 8042Q, but it's still damn sharp though, and it's been well taken care of. Good sound, plenty bright, no irregular burn-in, no convergence or purity issues.

I like that it's got a full spread of inputs, composite, s-video, component and RGB. It's not so bad if I hunch over it like an ape.

Plus, it was $20, so I'm fairly happy.

>>1986547
The next time I find a monitor, I will do this. I begged for the OEV203 seller to package it well after asking if they had experience with shipping monitors. I guess that wasn't enough precaution.

>>1986564
If the remote light is on, pull up the OSD, go to Config -> Remote (RS-232C) then there should be an option to set to local only, then you can adjust the picture using the front controls.

I still haven't done any adjustments to my set since I've got it, and I'm sure I can get a better picture out of it if I wanted to.

I'm going to give the service manual a read through before doing so, but can someone tell me if I'm going to have to actually open the set to work on the convergence(the only real thing that needs work) as I expect or is it doable from the service menu.

20M2MDU

>>1986558

Yeah, I'm looking at the service manual and it seems that repair adjustments must be done by hand.

>then over 1-2 seconds will get fuzzy, and 'snap' to sharp again, as if someone is dicking with the focus controls

I've seen that with old NeoGeo machines, that pat guy on GB messes around with his cab (with a screwdriver) to fix the focus before playing every game instead of just fixing the damn thing.

>>1986573
meant to post this.

>>1986572
>>1986572

I have this model, and yeah, you do have to open up the case to get at convergence controls. It's done with a traditional magnet ring by the control yoke. Not too hard, really.

>>1986572
>20M2MDU

I have the 14" version of that, I really like it.

has a nice dark tinted picture tube. really great blacks.

horror games look crazy on it.

>>1986570
Thanks, I just checked the menu, Remote Off seemed to be the option it landed on when I opened the menu. I saw Remote off, Remote only, Remote & Local- nothing happened when I tried to select any of the three. Weird.

I think I'm going to tear a monitor apart tomorrow after work. Excavate all the remaining loose pieces of plastic and all that. But for now, sleep is priority.

>>1986572
have you tried looking around in the service menu?

(don't touch "ageing mode" ever)

http://neohyphengeo.com/PVM20M2MDU_SM_SONY_EN.pdf

>>1986586
night bro, dream of vidya.

>>1986586
Yeah, with remote off and Remote&Local, both those should give you access to the front controls.

I think there's a service menu setting for remote mode, Item # 101, "Remote Mode Key", try changing that and seeing if it unlocks it.

>>1986586
>>1986591

also, remember to try adjusting the "landing" if the degaussing coil doesn't help

>>1986589
What does it do?

>>1986582
Well, not as easy as it could have been, but still sounds simple enough.

It's only very slightly off, so it should be a relatively quick fix, yeah? I'm not going to have to worry about breaking glue seals around it and having it be loose or anything, right?

>>1986589
The only time I've had the service menu up is when I had just found the manual, and wanted to confirm the actions to bring it up.
To be honest, I haven't adjusted anything on it out of fear of fucking it up. Still has the exact same settings as when I arrived a year and a half ago. Last(and only) CRT I've opened was a shitty Memorex that had died after not being turned on for some months; Hands started shaking like mad and it just got shoved into a corner in the office. Hopefully this goes a bit better.

>>1986585
Never really been one for horror games to be honest. Might have to try out one of the earlier REs on it at some point though.

>>1986595
>What does it do?

what, ageing mode?

>As far as I am aware this mode is used in the factory for 'Burning in' the
tube - as you say, best not to play with it.

but it spits out crazy amounts of x-ray radiation (in small burst, still unsafe)

I've also heard it sometimes helps with burn-in, but I don't think its worth the risks

>>1986598

>Crazy amounts of x-ray radiation

Holy hell, that is retarded. No CRT is going to put out "Unsafe" levels of anything.

All aging mode does is bring up a strong white screen for "Burning in" the tube. Don't ask me why it really needs to be a feature, but it is.

It can be useful for "Wear leveling" light levels of burn-in, but all you're gonna do is bring down the 'good' phosphor to the same level as the 'bad' phosphor. Though, this can be a very useful method to extend the life of projection CRT tubes, since their life is only ~10,000 hours.

>>1986596
>Might have to try out one of the earlier REs on it at some point though.

I was just trying out RE1's remake (wii re-release)

and it has some amazing dark scenes in the mansion, game looks like total shit on most LCD screens.

>>1986603
>Holy hell, that is retarded. No CRT is going to put out "Unsafe" levels of anything.

you sure about? the guys at the video pro forum say it does.

these guys used to work with PVMs all the time.

>most of them are dead from cancer

>>1986483

I've got nothing I can use as a reference

just watched this on youtube, and I thought it was an interesting idea.

wish he had taken some better pictures, I wanted to see what the quality of the image looks like.

anyone else have new systems connected to your CRTs?

>>1986617
what do you mean by that?

does your CRT support 480p or not?

>>1986619

My CRT supports 480p, but last time I measured input lag I did so by comparing it side-by-side with a CRT with no framebuffer nonsense going on.

>>1986621
ok, but you said you tested Lag on a crt with 240p and 480i from the 240p test suite

so why not just use the 480p mode of that application to test 480p lag?

>>1986612
Yeah, i'm sure.

See The Food and Drug Administration regulations in 21 C.F.R. 1020.10, Section C:

"Radiation exposure rates produced by a television receiver shall not exceed 0.5 milliroentgens per hour at a distance of five (5) centimeters from any point on the external surface of the receiver..."

So, for a display to be sold in the US, it has to meet this requirement, or BETTER.

Now take into consideration that these Pro-grade monitors are heavily shielded to prevent interference to or from neighboring equipment, doubly so for medical grade monitors. You can look at the PVM-20M2MDU service manual to see all of the compliance info related to it.

You could have your damn eyeballs glued to the glass of the screen while the set is on aging mode and be perfectly fine

>>1986624

Yes, I did. The other CRT I was comparing against only supported 240p and 480i.

>>1986618
You're gonna get piss poor image quality and tons of lag with an HDMI -> Composite transcoder, especially a cheap one.

>>1986618

I have a PS3 alongside my Wii and 6th gen consoles. The PS3's there for convenience but I hate the way 240p, 480i and 480p look on anything else.

>>1986625
interesting, how would you test the radiation levels of crt in ageing mode?

would a Geiger counter work? (does it account for x-rays or only background radiation?)

on a side note, does anyone really trust the FDA? (to enforce anything)

>>1986627
what model do you want to test 480p lag on?

why not just connect the wii to it?

>>1986635

Only one set supports 480p. That's the 100Hz TV and it has about 2-3 frames lag when processing 240p and 480i.
I can just connect the Wii to it and it alone over component, but I don't know how I'd get from there to a lag measurement.

>>1986629

that's why I would use an HD furry pro (HDMI > VGA > BNC 5

then BNC 5 > RGB scart

or

BNC 5 > Component tanscoder

no lag (not perceivable anyway) is introduced that why. and you get a really awesome picture

>>1986637
>100Hz TV

what model?

do you have a PC CRT?

>>1986634

A Geiger counter would work, since they can detect the Gamma radiation that CRTs put out. However I wouldn't call it a real scientific test, and would only acknowledge any results representative as the difference between normal and aging modes. You would probably notice a small difference with the counter against the glass, then it would drop back to nothing maybe 3 or 4 inches away. I really wouldn't expect much from the other 5 sides, due to the extreme amount of shielding inbuilt to the PVM/BVM series of monitors.

And it's not the fact that the FDA would be enforcing it, it's the fact that these sets would be designed and engineered with these requirements in mind. These monitors have to be used around the world and are going to comply to any gov't standard they may be operated under.

The whole hooplah about CRTs being evil death ray machines is a bunch of media hype, the same as cell phone tumors and wifi headaches.

>>1986638
In that case, yeah, i'd go for it.

The HDFury line of products seems to be well regarded, and I may be getting one to connect my Wii U to a Sony FW900

>>1986639

Yeah, I know. That's why I want to try out 480p on this thing, otherwise I'll stick to the other display. Toshiba 36zp38b

No, unfortunately.

>>1986642
I still don't understand why you can't just use the lag tester from the 240p test suite in 480p mode,

why do you need another screen to compare it to?

>>1986647

How else would I measure lag?

I knew that the other display didn't have any latency so I put them side by side and recorded what frame both screens had counted to. By measuring the difference (typically 2-3 frames) I got a roundabout idea for how laggy the first display was.

>>1986642
>Toshiba 36zp38b

if this is an HD display, does it scale the image?

if so, what does it scale to? (max resolution?)

>>1986650

It is not a HD display. The highest it does is 480p, There's no scaling, it just has a variety of ways of scanning out 240p/480i.

>>1986649
>How else would I measure lag?

doesn't the manual lag test give you a readout on 480p?

what is the number?

>>1986653
if its not an HD display and does no scaling

why does it have input delay? (unlike your other monitor)

>>1986654

Well, my reflexes are really bad so I don't think the manual lag test is going to give me a very good result.

What number? If you're talking about lag, I found that it averaged somewhere between 2 and 3 frames with a leaning towards the former.

>>1986653
>It is not a HD display. The highest it does is 480p

then its an "ED display" and still could be doing some type of scaling.

>>1986659

If it takes a 480i or 240p input, it buffers the whole frame and then scans it out in one of a variety of ways.
There is a button on the remote which holds the frame, but this does not work when displaying 480p. I'm hoping this means it bypasses the buffer.

>>1986664

How can I be certain? I didn't notice any as I was fiddling with various options in 240p test suite but my eyes aren't trained for this.

>>1986660
its good enough, repeat the test 3 - 5 attempts and average out your best times

that should give you 90% accurate idea and that's all you need.

>>1986670

Alright. I suppose I'll try doing the same test with 240p and 480i just so I can get an idea of how much lag I'm introducing.

>>1986667
input Lag on a CRT with no picture processing makes no sense.

if the image is not being processed it should have no leg.

>>1986672

If is being processed. It's being buffered and then scanned out either progressively with linedoubling or interlaced with ever line scanned twice.

>>1986673
why would it do that?

>>1986665
does the image have scan-lines in 240p mode?

>>1986672
Just by looking at that display I can tell you it's most likley gonna be a 100hz CRT.

This means lag and processing artifacts.

>>1986674

It's "100Hz"
And yes, it does.

>>1986678
can you take a picture of the chibi guy from the 240p test suite in both 240p and 480p modes?

on that display.

>>1986678
>It's "100Hz"

what is the point of It's "100Hz"

(is it to eliminate flickering? is that it?)

>>1986629
>HDMI -> Composite transcoder
Such signal converters absolutely shouldn't be called transcoders. "Transcoder" generally refers only to colorspace transcoders.

>>1986683
K.

>>1986681


http://www.eetasia.com/ARTICLES/2002APR/2002APR08_ICD_DSP_MPR_TAC.PDF?SOURCES=DOWNLOAD

>>1986671
>>1986686

can you disable the 100hz mode?

>>1986681

I'm pretty certain that's the idea. There's a lot less flicker than there would otherwise be.
>>1986680

I'll do it as soon as I'm home. The short guy in the bottom right?

>>1986689
>The short guy in the bottom right?

yeah that guy.

make sure sure you also get a few good shots of just his face too, (in both modes)

>>1986687

No. When displaying 340p/470i, there are four scan options.
>Progressive
No flicker, gets rid of scanlines.
>100Hz
An unappealing juddery image, but not flickery in the same way as other interlaced video.
>Natural and Active
Essentially identical to my eyes, not juddery.

All modes have equal lag

>>1986695
so essentially, you "can't turn off" the image processor and get a normal 60hz image?

have you tried looking for a service manual? sometimes settings like that are locked away in the "service menu"

>>1986683
true, they are technically "down scalers"

>>1986704

Nope.
I'm a britbong by the way, so "normal" would typically be 50Hz and not 60Hz. That's why it's labelled 100Hz and not 120Hz, I suppose. Not that it matters, 50Hz and 60Hz signals are treated the same.
I've been able to access the service menu to adjust height, width, corner geometry etc. But nothing lets me turn this off. If I were to guess, the tube itself was probably only designed to scan 31KHz.

>>1986712
ah, I see

2 - 3 frames of lag is fairly acceptable, even for fighting games.

do you notice it when pulling off any moves?

>>1986707
No, a scaler is technically something else too. You can have a scaler that does no signal type conversion at all (like RGB in, RGB out).

You might be thinking of "downscan converter" which also doesn't necessarily apply in this case.

The best general term is probably just signal converter.

>>1986717
>2 - 3 frames of lag is fairly acceptable, even for fighting games.
except this is /crt/ so not really
outside of this thread, sure i guess

>>1986717

No. I don't really play fighting games but the lag never affects me. It's beter than the 4-5 frames I was getting out of the plasma HDTV at least.

I think we're diverging too far from the original topic.

>>1986718
I guess that makes sense, but if its taking a 1080p image and converting it to 480i, isn't that downscaling?

>>1986723
but that's the best most mid-range HD Displys can do.

I doubt most guys at EVO are playing on CRT's at 480i

they must have to adjust for lag (constantly, if they play on multiple types of TVs)

and especially if they play online at home.

>>1986734

Actually I hear a lot of fighting game players still uae CRTs for their responsiveness.

>>1986724
>No. I don't really play fighting games but the lag never affects me

then why are you measuring it?

>>1986737
Maybe for small exhibition matches, but for the real pro matches I always see them on Big HD screens, or on HD projectors.

>>1986725
In that case sure, but that's not the main point of the device. There have been signal converters like VGA-TV out converters (and the other way around) forever, but scaling the image is just a part of what they do. It's probably best to differentiate between dedicated scalers (which can run quite high in cost) and simplistic converters that do basic scaling just to convert between two signal types.

>>1986734
>but that's the best most mid-range HD Displys can do.
well this is /crt/ on the retro vidya board, i kinda don't care about what most mid-range hd displays can do

>>1986749

Yeah, but I wasn't just addressing “you” was I?

And I was making the comparison because that’s what is considered "acceptable" for action games retro or otherwise. (and it was about a CRT an ED CRT but still a CRT)

We've had to deal with display lag since the early 90’s (so it’s technically retro, lol)


Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfMA-eL1vLM

I’m going to tell you anyway.

>>1986756
and that reminds me, if you use retro arch for emulation on CRTs you might want to enable "Hard GPU Sync"

otherwise your still getting lag at the driver level.

it made a big difference on my PVM 14m2u and my DiamondTron

>>1986765
but a shitty GPU might not be able to use this feature (intel IGPs)

so, give it a check.

>>1986737
>>1986742

A good monitor with a “game mode” can usually get lag down to 1-2 frames, but I've heard that Sony has a new TV that can do less then 1 fame.

I doubt any one at EVO has the cash for that; but I used to see a lot of smash players bring their own CRT TVs with them.

(I've heard that Palmer Luckey has a big CRT at the office just for smash bros)

>>1983546
it should say in the manual (or catalog ad) what phosphor type you have in your PVM.

most are p22 but some are SMPTE-C (like my L5)

>>1986756
>>1986765
>>1986773
since you sound really dedicated to going this far off-topic and getting personal i won't stop you
keep it up bro, 2-3 frames of lag sounds really great now so let's all try to lag our shit down to your standards in the crt thread
your advice to 100Hz britbro is on point, he should keep playing on that thing and we should all get hd crts for our retro shit

>>1986795
I like how you use fud, really nice.

>since you sound really dedicated to going this far off-topic

if its about a crt, its still on topic

>keep it up bro, 2-3 frames of lag sounds really great

its "ok"

>now so let's all try to lag our shit down to your standards in the crt thread

lol, sure "my standards" (can you even hear what you sound like?)

>your advice to 100Hz britbro is on point, he should keep playing on that thing and we should all get hd crts for our retro shit

I never told him what to do with his CRT, merely that it was fine to have an "acceptable" amount of lag for an HD or in this case “ED” display. he can do whatever he likes.

You’re the one who seems intent on telling others what to do and, and what "you want to hear” in /crt/

its video games bro, chill out.

>>1986785
SMPTE-C May have better color reproduction, but P22 offers better lifespan and more brightness.

I'll gladly have my tube live longer in exchange for a bit of color accuracy

>>1986808
Its too bad only one really nice CRT display ever had the full 1950’s NTSC color gamut. And it was never sold publicly.

(Princeton R&D wanted to mass produce them, but by that time CRT’s where out of style)

>>1986807
but you make me so angry, i need you to believe that

>>1986816
Oh I know it does, but it also doesn't really matter.

Because I’m still going to drop some knowledge on ya.

>>1986821
cool, that's what we all need

and again this thread gets hostile

>>1986814

somebody make this the OP image for the next thread.

>>1986826
I know, that's why I'm here.

>>1986827

meh, I'm used to it by now, If somebody wants to sperg-out, it’s not going to bother me. I do what I do.

>Makes me think of this for some reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bOKsOveYD0

>>1986830
>I know, that's why I'm here.
thanks once

>I do what I do.
and again

because me simply saying that 2-3 frames of lag is lame in the crt thread put you on defense, i'm convinced that your skin is super-thick and we can all see that. because you keep saying so

>>1986795

how is this off topic?
>>1986765
>>1986773

if you can fix GPU induced lag on a CRT, why not fix it?

seems like a good idea to me.

Is the poster who was ordering a 45" KX model from japan here?

>>1986834
>I can’t understand sarcastic remarks on the internet

how new are you?

>because me simply saying that 2-3 frames of lag is lame in the crt thread

No, you made some big huff-puffy post about how I was “lowering standards”

but keep using that FUD, Ii'm sure somebody will believe you.

>i'm convinced that your skin is super-thick and we can all see that.

You have no idea how “thick” my skin is bro.

(you're talking about boners… right?)

>>1986835
those came after >>1986734 and >>1986756

evo don't really run their operations on retroarch do they and those posts weren't directed to anyone, they were replies to when you took this thread south

>>1986840
>how new are you?
the answer to that will not help fix your personality problems

>No, you made some big huff-puffy post about how I was “lowering standards”
oh is that what i did. maybe i didn't and that's just what you thought i did

>you're talking about boners… right?
that's why i'm here, i do what i do

>>1986842
>the answer to that will not help fix your personality problems

It doesn't really help anyone; it was more of a rhetorical question. (sure I already know the answer, new friend)

>oh is that what i did. maybe i didn't and that's just what you thought i did

You’re intent was pretty clear, but back-peddle a little more. Its fine.

>that's why i'm here, i do what i do

I knew I liked you, you keep it real.

>when you took this thread south

look in the mirror dude.

>>1986848

Back to business, i'll start

does anyone use the video spiting (video-out) on PVMs?

if so, what do you use it for?

>>1986848
are you almost done yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y1wm7CFRCQ

2-3 frames is significant

>>1986854
>does anyone use the video spiting (video-out) on PVMs?
not the best idea, that's unamplified/unterminated passive loopback. too many stages of that will fuck the signal

>>1986854
Might be useful if you do twitch streaming, video capture, etc.

I wonder if the video outs spit out a signal that's been through the comb filter, so you could use a PVM to clean up a composite signal before going to a capture card

>>1986859
that's not how composite works, once you recombine y and c the comb filtering you've done gets thrown out, it's pointless

>>1986861

I gotchya.

Aren't there extron units that can clean up composite signals, however? I'm not too well versed on the subject.

>>1986858
>2-3 frames is significant

nobody was arguing in favor of lag.

you game on the display you have, not always the one you want.

I would try to keep things Sub 1 frame (or better if possible).

>>1986861
but I mostly meant, S-video or RBG/component.

outing that from the PVM is not too horrible. I would hope.

>>1986863
well you can do comb filtering and then output svideo, that works

>>1986864
this, but if anyone who wants to play retro ever has the chance to swap out a 100Hz tv or a hd crt for something more suitable for it, i'd go for it instead of settling for something everyone else in this thread is actively trying to acoid

>>1986868
Yes, but in the meantime you play what with what you've got, and get something better along the way. (not always easy)

>>1986867
if you have a model with active loopback (pvm has to be on for the output to work), it might do conversion. models with passive loopback won't do it

>>1986830

>/CRT/: I've got something to play! its better to get burn-in, then to fade away.

if I play my CRT for around an hour a day, how long will it last, before it dies?

also, SMPTE-C vs P22 for life expectancy (how long for each?)

>>1986876
>it might do conversion
duh
what i mean is it might apply comb filtering to the output. doubt it though, this is broadcast equipment

Anyone knows a small crt monitor, preferbly a AV monitor used for video editing.

Will probably use it for my N64.

>>1986880
decades as long as the board stays in good shape

>>1986880
P22 for longevity

As far as duration of these sets, I've heard of BVMs with 75K recorded hours and beyond of tube use that still look outstanding with a good calibration. I've even heard of people getting sets with 100K hours that still perform beyond consumer CRTs.

So as long as the electronics don't take a dump, they should outlast anything you're doing with them. Sony PVM/BVMs are designed to be left on 24/7 for years at a time, so they can take it.

>>1986876
>>1986883

yeah, but RGB and S-video usually don't need or have comb filtering anyway.

>>1986889
>P22 for longevity

yes, but just how much of a dip does SMPTE-C vs P22 on its life? (75% of a p22 sets life time or is it less?)

>Sony PVM/BVMs are designed to be left on 24/7 for years at a time, so they can take it.

but I feel a little weird turning it off and on through. like that might be putting more strain on it then playing. (powering up and down)

Would you say a CRT that gets use every so often, but not too much to add any significant amount of hours - perhaps in the form of light viewing, would have the electron gun inside it in a better condition then one that has been sitting there for years, undoubtedly never being touched?

>>1986896
>SMPTE-C vs P22

only thing I could find in relation to this question, would be really fucked up if true.

>>1986427
Well, as i said i had no choice, CRT monitors are hard to find where i live (seriously, not even at 2nd hand stores, where two years ago i could find them at 4 €)

Th guy who gave me his one is going to bring another one today. I'll see if it's better or not.

>>1986526
>seems nice for a small crt. how do you have hooked up to a ps2?

Actually, i used Dolphin for that photo, had a VGA Box but sold it long ago.

>probably just needs to be de-magnetized or "degassed", and you might need to adjust the "beem landing"

If the display i'm getting today is in same or worse condition i'll have to do something. Sometimes the blue tint intensifies on its own, it's pretty irritating, and give me headaches too

>or you just need to adjust the color temp.

Front buttons doesn't allows me to do that, i can oly adjust shine, contrast and image size/position. I tried to use Catalyst software to do it but can't manage to find the correct colors.

>>1986913
>had a VGA Box but sold it long ago

Lots of better ways to hook a game console up to a PC CRT.

>>1986913
>Sometimes the blue tint intensifies on its own, it's pretty irritating

not sure but it sounds like something is off on the logic-board, not necessarily the tube.

you should track down the Service manual if you end up keeping it. (and also get a hold of a technician if possible)

>>1986913
are all the pins on the VGA cable intact? sounds like something could be messing with the "RED" RGB signal.

>>1986893
well yeah, that's why i mentioned conversion, the asker's question is pointless unless he's trying to "clean up" a composite signal. you're not him, are you?

>>1986906
regular light use doesn't keep a crt better conditioned compared to a completely idle tube. pack a crt away under perfect conditions and it will be preserved better than a lightly used one

>>1986976
no, I was just wonder what people us that video-out feature for.

I have used it to output from my pvm to a sideways wega for "Tate Mode" shumps like 1941

I didn't notice any quality loss (except for the fact that the wega has a lower resolution screen, 600 vs 400 TVL)