/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1973939
>And why are these games never talked about?

The Valve fanbase on /v/ is extremely obnoxious.

That said, their early games are definitely worthy of discussion.

>>1973939
oh man, I remember lan parties with my cousins the summer before they went to the army, best time of my life

>>1973943
>The Valve fanbase on /v/ is extremely obnoxious.

True that, (new) valve's fanbase (steam, tf2, left 4 dead ect) and the hype of hl2 and portal have severely overshadowed the early valves games like these

>>1973939
Because Half Life set the bases for everything modern games are today.

That's not retro.

>>1973939
I like how some things never changed from TFC to TF2, namely the fact that the Pyro is completely and utterly useless.

Playing through Opposing Force right now with HD texture pack.

It changes the game feel from half-life in a good way, just enough to make it feel fresh, but I wouldn't use the HD texture update on vanilla half life, just for the sake of getting the original experience.

>>1973954

>1998 isn't retro

Besides, Halo overshadowed HL when it came out, for better or for worse.

>>1973954
Held on its own merits at the time of release half life is great, most people who enjoy quake and such should love half-life

>>1973965
half life blows halo out of the water.

Halo never had the same type of impact.

>>1973960
its only HD models dude it changes the way guys look and some of the guns

>>1973971

>half life blows halo out of the water.

I didn't say Halo was the better game, I said it overshadowed HL.

>Halo never had the same type of impact.

No, Halo had a huge amount of impact and overshadowed HL, to the point of influencing most shooters to come out since.

>>1973974
sorry it just tickled my autism

I wish people still played Ricochet.
TRON is fuckin' cool

TFC was probably my first online game I fell in love with, I don't really know what happened to the playerbase though. I remember there being like 2,000 servers online at one point. I don't really know if it had a de facto successor, or if everyone just moved on.

>>1973983
I always get kicked for high ping :^(

>>1973989
TF2 and DNF are both in the same boat, except one changed for the better (or so is the reception), the other for the worse. I don't remember the Engineer being the be-all end-all of defense in TFC, yet he is in TF2.

any good single player mods for half life?

Anybody want to join some severs together in steam sometime this week?

>>1973993
They Hunger

>>1973993
>>1973997
USS Darkstar as well.

Oh the memories.

>>1973939
theres a shit-ton of people still playing 1.6 from what steam stats says. and who knows how many more on cracked servers.

>>1974001
that pc gamer cd

>>1974001
>>1974019
damn that monkey

>>1973993
countless

FPS before Half Life :
>convoluted, conceptual level design, which if it had 'realism' was always a balance between that realism and that conceptual unrealistic level design
>arcade orientated gameplay
>fast gameplay based on fighting hordes of stupid enemies with simple pattern. The challenge comes from the combinaison and the placement of those simple patterns.

FPS with Half Life onward :
>more straightforward and realistic level design
>Story!
>gameplay based on fighting intelligent life-like enemies resulting in a slower, more cover based, gameplay

I know Half Life has its share of 'stupid' enemies with simple patterns too, mostly in the first part of the game. But nobody cared about those, everyone talked about how amazing the realism of the AI of the grunts were. That plus the "story" with "CUTSCENES IN WHICH YOU COULD MOVE OMG" was all everyone talked about. Suddenly story and realism became more important for the genre than arcade gameplay and sheer fun.

Personally I think the first part of the game, up until you get to the surface, is brilliant. It's very survival horror-ish in a sense. The problem is that the first part doesn't really matter as far as the game is concerned, it is only a build up so that the player gets even more amazed by the story and by how "INTELLIGENT" the grunts are in comparaison...
The rest of the game is a chore, and a chore that is responsible for taking away everything I loved in FPS.

>>1974364

All of this. Unreal was the better game.

>>1974372
Tribes was better than anything before it since for multiplayer. Except maybe t2

>>1974364
I wouldn't quite say Half-Life's level desigin was straitforward, compared to what would come next for the genre half life totally makes you work for it. Its not as simple as walk forward, figuring out your environment was one of most interesting things out half life.

As for the story most of half life is: "gordan, get to the lambda complex" anyway. It really doesnt get in the way.

>>1973939
I must be the only one who played pic related.

>>1973997
>>1974001

Oh man played shit out of these. Sadly never played online mods like TF and Richochet. There was also one post apocalyptic mod, cant remember it right now but i wanted to play it badly.

So you guys never played Action Half Life or Pirates, Vikings & Knights? HL1 was full of mods both for single and multiplayer, and lots of official expansions too.

Somebody please tell me they used to play surf maps in CS 1.6. You know, the crouch method on roller coaster-like wedges through crazy environments? This defined my youth once I got my first pc. I've never seen anyone discuss them.

I have dreams about certain maps to this day.

>>1974364
wrong/delusional/non-objective

before x (doom, quake 1)
>gameplay is clearly segmented
>"episodes" with multiple themes, might as well play levels in random order
>random and unrelated enemy designs, even on the same level

after x (quake 2, half-life)
>gameplay is much more continuous, smooth transitions between "units"/"chapters"
>whole game world has a common, rather consistent theme
>more consistent enemy designs

you can't be serious calling out too much realism in a game where you fight aliens. the story in both Q2 and HL is still something you can completely ignore. levels in 'before' games are still as linear as in 'after' games.

whichever you pick is nothing but a matter of preference. neither is objectively better, that's like saying ketchup is objectively better than mustard

>>1974723
should've been its own separate mod for HL and not pollute my CS server list with useless non-CS garbage along with all the other meta-games (kreedz/deathrun/everything else that's not actual CS)

>>1974723
I remember playing those. Never mastered them though. There were also ones with obstacles and shit, where everyone jumps over them and one guy is controlling the hazards.
People still play those kind of maps. I guess some of them got bored of regular CS. There are lot of servers with those maps.

>>1974735
He didn't say that was objective fact I don't think. He just said for that, for him personally, what he loved about FPSs has been stripped away from the genre. If he doesn't like what has taken his place, then for him it is definitely worse, no argument about it.

>>1974747
still a biased and half-wrong comparison, not calling it out can produce more retards that will just repeat misinformation

>>1974735
>you can't be serious calling out too much realism in a game where you fight aliens

I didn't say there was too much realism. I said there was a bigger focus on realism. And for the FPS genre, that definitely started as a trend since HL.

>the story in both Q2 and HL is still something you can completely ignore
What I meant was more importance is given to story and storytelling. Before HL, the story is an excuse for gameplay. In HL gameplay and story are very much linked continuously. The action is cut by sequences which serve the sole purpose of telling bits of story, that you can't skip too. No, the story in HL can not be ignored.

Also,
>wrong/delusional/non-objective

I could say the very same thing about some of your points, like
>random and unrelated enemy designs, even on the same level
That's a huge exageration that don't apply to every game. I don't see a single issue with DN3D's enemies set for instance.

You're saying i'm "wrong" but I don't see how what you're saying is factual or "right" either

>>1973971
Halo was a). a much better game, and b). had a much larger impact. But keep telling yourself otherwise

>>1974770
It was fun in co-op, otherwise it was surprisingly boring.

>>1974767
>No, the story in HL can not be ignored.
remind me which moment in HL requires the player to actually know the story in order to progress

>>1974784
Right at the start before the test chamber those scientists are talking and talking and talking and it's unskippable. For the ADHD old school retro gamers that shit is irritating.

Also one can argue that sitting in the monorail and waiting all that while until the actual shooting/crowbar gameplay starts at 'Unforeseen Consequences' the 'contextualisation of the story' is getting in the way of core gameplay.

>>1974791
>Right at the start before the test chamber those scientists are talking and talking and talking and it's unskippable.
>sitting in the monorail and waiting all that while until the actual shooting/crowbar gameplay starts at 'Unforeseen Consequences'
where's the story in those?

>>1974005
People still play 1.6? I might re-install that then. I played that every summer so much that I'd lose tons of weight from not eating.

>>1973939

As for why they aren't really talked about, Valve seems to do well for itself and makes pretty good sequels to these classics. TBH TFC was fun but the aesthetics and gameplay of TF2 are far more accessible and fun.

Even though CS:S was kinda of a sleeper, CS:GO has been amazing and even as a vet 1.6 player, I still think I'd prefer GO over any.

>>1974791
>>1974796
I feel like the two of you agree and are just arguing for the sake of it.

>>1974364
Half Life wasn't a bad game though. It did what it did well, even though admittedly the core gunplay left a LOT to be desired. At the time it was a breath of fresh air and I really enjoyed the ride after playing a plethora of generic Doom clones.

Ideally we'd have all kinds of FPS's existing side by side but that's the problem of industry standard. I don't think you can really blame Half Life for it though. It was a good game and it offered really good variety of gameplay separated by its various segments and environments. The blame should fall on other developers who chose to just copy it rather than doing their own thing.

If the industry never did anything new and all we ever had was Doom clone philosophy shooters to this day it would have gotten boring as fuck. That is actually why everyone loved HL so much when it came out. I agree that the Doomstyle is better but I also like variety. That's why I don't knock Half Life for being what it is because I do think it's a damn good game on its own merits. It's a shame we can't have all these shooters existing side by side instead of one style usurping the other.

>>1974808
>The blame should fall on other developers who chose to just copy it rather than doing their own thing.

Good point

>>1974796
It's contextualisation over gameplay and it's unskippable. The gameplay is being limited to provide background information to what's happening. If you can't see why a scientist talking to Gordon about shit is not part of the story factor you're an idiot.

BUILD games told the story through the levels themselves and never actually got in the way of the actual gameplay. The story was told through the levels themselves. Sometimes you had a cutscene, but they were always skippable. Half Life forced you to listen to scientists ramble on, or forced you to sit in a monorail for ages, and then forced you to walk through the Black Mesa facility and get your suit, then made you go all the way to the test chamber, then made you listen to scientists talking while you're stuck in a room, then made you sit through scripted bullshit as you pushed the artifact into the machine, etc etc. Only THEN does the actual true gameplay begin. All this was done for story and it got in the way of the actual game, and you were forced to deal with it. This answers this question >>1974784 so shut up now.

>>1974770
Halo was painfully average. It wasn't bad nor good. It was kind of boring. The only thing that made it stand out is the fact it was released on consoles and had decent networking which enabled online play. So console players hailed it as their messiah. Out of PC crowd I've never heard anyone reminiscing about halo as much like they did over other shooters of the era, it is probably because it was nothing special and better shooters were out there for the PC.

>>1974770
Halo is terrible.

>>1974808
>The blame should fall on other developers who chose to just copy it rather than doing their own thing.
this and this
Half life arrived when the whole "seek a red key to progress" was getting dull, for something else, more "linear", but not in the wrong way. Half life 1 was a succession of room that play entirely differently, with many differents idea at each time. It was another way to think exploration in a fps, and why the hell not ? I still prefer Unreal 1, but it's not entirely Half life 1 fault if it killed the old school doom like genre. Remember how people didn't cared about Outlaws or Shadow Warrior because it was too "more of the same".

>>1974821
the point
_____
your head

>>1974723


The Team Fortress 2 versions seem to be more entertaining in my experience

Half Life, (other than a few games on the win95 demo disk that came with the pc), was my first proper introuduction to pc gaming. Everyones already said it, but for what its worth, one of the best games of all time. I adore this game. Beats the crap out of most games released these days. Is long, innovative, lots of variety, interesting plot, takes you to alot of different locations throughout the journey, has some kick-ass set pieces. Good puzzles. Yeah man.. fucking incredible game.

Opposing force is one of the best exp. packs ever made.

BlueShift.... is kind've meh in comparison, still worth playing.

CS1.6. Holy cow. I have such good memories of that game.

What else can i say. Oh and dont even bother comparing it to halo. To quote that other guy, halflife blows halo out of the water.
Why? Simple:
New Halo game gets announced. Number of people get reasonably hyped.
HL3 gets announced - internet will explode.
And that i can guarantee.

tldr: hl is the best

>>1974859
>New halo every 2 years
>new half life every 10 years

>>1974862
reason no.10,000 why hl>halo

>>1974871
Could that be attributed the development time? While I know HL3 is on the backburner, I assume Valve approaches these things with delicacy and care versus Moutain Dew levels of hype.

>>1974770

You're half right. Halo did have a larger impact, but for the worse. Halo was alright, but all the copycats and imitators didn't even do it that well.

Hate to break it to you guys but Goldeneye was a more influential FPS than either Half-Life or Halo.

There's like a ridiculous number of obvious modern FPS conventions that first appeared in Goldeneye. In fact, some of the stuff is so pervasive (such as shooting people in the arms does less damage than shooting them in the chest or weapons that make different levels of sound) that it's hard to imagine a time before it.

Half-Life multiplayer was the shit. I remember the maps with the underground train thing and the one with the nuke button. Good times.

>>1974690
I still play it.

How true is it to Quake's multiplayer?

>>1975329
> fact, some of the stuff is so pervasive (such as shooting people in the arms does less damage than shooting them in the chest or weapons that make different levels of sound) that it's hard to imagine a time before it.

I lack the motivation to do the research, but I'm ready to get 100bucks this was done before Goldeneye.

>>1975353
I've done the research and I'm ready to collect the 100 bux.

The closest thing to the hitboxes thing is that Team Fortress mod got a patch a few months before Goldeneye was released where it could detect if you got a headshot with the sniper rifle, but that's about as far as it got in that department.

As for the stealth, best of luck. Even the Thief devs said Goldeneye was their inspiration.

I loved the last part of HL before you go to xen.
It felt so crazy, I never knew what was about to happen next

>>1975353
in terminator 2 for sega pretty sure shooting terminators in the head made them die faster. might be wrong about this

>>1975387
Not saying Goldeneye was the first game to do that full stop, just the first FPS. The hitboxes thing is literally taken from Virtua Cop a lightgun game.

>>1975397
Take your autism and shove it. You are arguing NOTHING

>>1975401
>he thinks autism is an insult, not a compliment, on /vr/

>>1973957
W + M1 still not working out for you kid? That's okay, we could always use another soldier.

>>1974823
Halo 1 on consoles didn't even have multiplayer from what I remember.

>>1973939
Pirates, Vikings and Knights was one of my favorite half-life mods.

>>1973993
Anything starting with Poke646

It's impressive how the author captured the feeling of an eastern european city before Half Life 2.

I'm playing the first half life now and I have to admit I really hate it. It just drags on and on and I don't feel like I've really don't anything. I'm walking on this long path of a game shooting things.

I hope the second is more interesting.

>>1976075
*done

>>1976075
what part are you at?

>>1976132
I think I'm almost to the lamda complex. The chapter is Surface Tension, and I've been in it a lot.

I got excited that a space ship dropped off two of those big things for me to shoot, and then a god damn jet took them and me out with bombs.

I can't stress this enough. I hate this game. It's anti-fun.

>>1976142
I have to quit now. I've been playing it ~3 days and I just can't go further. I swear, the god damn RPG is missing easy and close targets on purpose.

I honestly don't remember the last time I hated a game so much. Deus Ex is my favorite game of all time and I kept getting this suggested so I finally decided to play it. Absolutely miserable. Even with games I don't like, usually I can understand the type of person who'd enjoy them. This, I'm at a complete loss as to why someone would enjoy it. Let alone what makes it "one of the greatest games of all time."

>>1976075
>>1976142
>>1976208

Have you tried getting good?

Seriously, though, I don't know what's making you hate it so much.

>I don't feel like I've really don't anything. I'm walking on this long path of a game shooting things.

Well, it /is/ a linear shooter. Freeman does a fair amount of things in the game, so I don't really get where the impression that you haven't really done anything.

>I got excited that a space ship dropped off two of those big things for me to shoot, and then a god damn jet took them and me out with bombs.

Do you normally make a habit of dead sprinting straight into your enemies?

>I swear, the god damn RPG is missing easy and close targets on purpose.

You are accounting for the delay, right? And you're not trying to guide them via laser, correct? Or are you? I mean, I never used the RPG much except for tanks and helis and big shit, but it's not particularly complicated if you either guide it or account for the delay before the rocket takes off.

How do I deal with marines in HL: Source? I feel like they're way too tanky for the damage they deal to me - they take 3 shotgun shots to the face or close to a full mp5 magazine, while they shred me in a few shots. And that's after I dropped the difficulty from hard to normal. Do they have a weak spot or something?

>>1976674

Headshots count.

>>1973976
>Halo had a huge amount of impact and overshadowed HL
They were both influential. This isn't a race.

>>1975408
Are you trying to argue for the pyro kid? I have been playing TF just since TFC but I have had TF2 since launch put 1500 hours into the game won tournaments at big LAN events and I can assure you the pyro is fucking useless. I don't care how good you think you are at pyro it's still a terrible class. The spy who is supposed to be weak to pyros has no problem dispatching them with his pistol, 3 shots of the revolver will take out a pyro just out of the range of his flamethrower even the ones that just flame around randomly can't do anything to prevent spies killing them that way. The airblast was a really cool idea but its just a big waste of ammo it was useless even if you were good at it anyone good at soldier or demo was even better at killing you took one rocket at the feet to pop em in the air then another 1 or 2 while hes in the air harmless to finish em off. I fucking love putting cocky pyros in their place, they like to show off their airblast skills until I hand them their own ass on a platter. The only use they have is taking an uber in to destroy buildings.

TF2 isn't very good though it's fun and all but it will NEVER compare to TFC, only baddies whine about nade spam nobody with any skill wastes their precious nades like that

>>1976075
I've got bad news for you. I like half life 1 but can see why people think its boring. Half life 2 on the other hand even I think is boring

>>1977123

I know it isn't a race, but it's a fact that when Halo came out a lot of folks thought it was about the greatest thing ever. "Halo killer" was a term for several years because nobody thought anything would actually kill Halo's popularity.

>>1977219
You don't seem to realize that Halo itself was influenced by Half-Life. The very fact that Halo is a FPS with a serious story and proeminent storytelling with dialogues and 'cutscenes' throughout the entire game makes of it a game influenced by HL.

I've been playing TFC for six god damned years and I only just now learned about nade cooking. I'm a fucking idiot.

>>1973939

> See how TF2 has degenerated over time
> At some point it strikes a nerve
> Uninstall and completely forget about it

I reminisce about the days of playing Half-Life and it's expansion, along with all those awesome fucking mods that jumped with it.

And after all that bull-shit, I completely forgot that TFC had that one VIP mode.

>>1973939
>I recently got all the classic valve games and played them all for the first time and they are incredible

I imagine it has something to do with not being complete faggots. It also doesn't help that many of us have less than fond memories of how much of a bugest HL1 was when it came out and how much of a bugfest it still is and now with more patched issues.

HL1 was basically a brighter more straightforward version of Quake with more variation of less fun weapons. So it's not like most retro players would have felt it was amazing at that point.

The mods were probably the best thing about it but not the ones you mentioned.

Goldsrc CS was massively popular with the casual console gamer crowd but terribly slow and less fun than better mods like Action Half Life or later The Specialists (both which actually had far improved network code and better recoil systems that worked properly). DoD was kind of a mess altogether. TFC was already overlooked by people playing Weapons Factory, Quake TF, or other class CTF games with communities still alive. Ricochet was always dead and problematic. The best Valve based mod was Deathmatch Classic and that was just a shoddy homage of Quake DM.

I don't find it surprising that it's less talked about given how there were many better games/mods in competing genres to play.
I do find it more surprising that there are CS casuals still lurking around instead of having gone with the times to circlejerk Halo, CoD, Borderlands or some other modern garbage.

Half Life itself is the most worthwhile title of theirs that anyone into FPS games could play through for personal historical understanding or completionism. Otherwise, there's better games, but if you're hard up for an FPS you could do worse.

>>1975523
It had Xbox to Xbox LAN and Split Screen. Not online play. He was wrong about that. Only the PC version had online multiplayer which was two years after, was a half assed port and had some of the worst network code in the history of gaming as well as other problems that left the scene mostly dead until it started getting picked up as a piratable game and pushed around by BRs and the like looking to play reskinned Zelda mods where they beg for rupees or report you.

>>1977623
DoD was fucking brilliant fuck you, and CS is not casual. Just because a bunch of scrubs like to deathmatch on iceworld doesn't mean they are actually good at playing a 30 round match.

>>1976674
Stop using the MP5. Use the Glock, it does 8 damage instead of the MP5's and is actually accurate. Grunts have either 50 or 80 health depending on difficulty. So 24 damage a shot to the head, 4 shots will finish off the hardest and 3 the weakest. If you used the MP5 it would take 4/6 shots assuming you could actually land it on the head, good luck with that. It's likely closer to 10/16 or assuming you actually net at least one HS in a spray like 7/13 shots.
If I recall the only time armor reduction is really a consideration on enemies is the alien grunts metal pieces.

Of course ALL of that assumes you're not hitting them during their invincibility frames on top of it. (You can shoot off two secondary shotty blasts dead to the chest or face and still not kill them on easy even though that's a 60 health shot per. You can also reload the very same scene and kill them with a single double shotty depending on what animation their doing aiming at the same spot. Go and test it.)

>>1977253
you can't be serious
there's even been countdown scripts forever

>>1977671
Oops meant to state MP5's 5 damage.

>>1976057
i had this this but it would always crash at the second level, there was another mod that had a level set in a theme park i liked too.

>>1977623
>HL1 was basically a brighter more straightforward version of Quake
What a retarded opinion.

>>1977685
It was either Absolution or Redemption.

>>1976208
>>1976075
>>1976142
Half Life has some amazing mechanics which you can be really skillful at if you practice enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtI5HM7GVGY

>>1976208
>Deus Ex is my favorite game
I see why you you're having a problem. You can't shoot or move for shit.

>>1977734
A lot of people think that about the truth. Try playing Quake sometime.

>>1976208
rockets are laser guided, play on hard or the game is too easy

>>1977873
How is it like Quake? They use the same engine and they're both first person shooters. What are the other similarities? I'm intrigued to know how someone can be so stupid.

Quake is an extrapolation of the Doom style shooter into true 3D, with its key-based, quasi-non-linear design philosophy. Half Life began the trend of the linear, heavily scripted cinematic shooter. What you're saying is completely bogus and utterly idiotic. Perhaps YOU should try playing the games some time.

>>1977907
Aside from secret exits both Doom and Quake are also largely linear. All non linearness is due to exploiting engine mechanics, which you can also do in HL if you're good as well. HL swaps keys for activating switches but it's the same fucking largely and it plays out in a similar manner. I'm curious how someone can be so fucking stupid as to have played both and not noticed the similar corridor style pseudo-platformer FPS that makes use of traps and similar movement a well. HL tosses in some scripted scenes here and there but it's largely absent from most of the game once you get into it.

Seriously, try playing both of the games some day. This time maybe give HL1 more than five minutes before quitting.

>>1978252
Cute. Another tryhard hipster child on /vr/ that has no idea what he's talking about. Back to the Doom general now kiddo.

>>1977671
So what I'm getting is that MP5's primary attack is generally a big waste of ammo. Is that right?

>>1974723

surf_ninja was pretty much the greatest map ever. It was daunting enough to be a challenge, but once you cut your teeth on that map you felt like a surfing pro. There were so many stupid little secrets, like being able to jump out the sides of the spawn areas and get on top and snipe people. And everybody knew the damn code at the end to open the treasure chamber... I feel like I should remember what it is, but time takes its toll...

>>1978352
In general yeah, but you can fire quicker with it and it has a grenade launcher. It can be effective if you get up close and personal and unload on their face. Though getting up close tends to kick them into more buggy animations.

>>1978252
Saying there is no difference between the linearility of Doom and the linearility of HL, and saying there is no difference between keycards and switches, is exactly like saying "every game is the same because you go from point A to B".
Saying there is no difference between HL and Quake is like saying there is no difference between oldschool and modern FPS.

I'm sorry but you fail at game design. 0/10, you didn't do your homework and are trying to save yourself by talking nonsense out of your ass.

I'm not even going to argue btw. When it came out Half-Life WAS praised by the entire world, both pro reviewers and players, exactly because it was completely different from the Quake/Doom style.

>>1978391
>some old review says HL done something different
>that means every single aspect of the game has been changed
>hurr oldschool, durr modern

>>1978412
>you can't innovate in FPS because no matter what you change it still involves shooting a gun so it's the same no matter what

>>1978412
It's not just 'some old review', it's the entire world.

>>1978427
>it's the entire world
how non-vague

>>1978430
From the back of my hl:generation box:
"The critics all agree, half-life has been awarded 50 "game of the year" titles in publications across the world. Also billed as "best game ever" by the UK publication pc gamer."

>>1978438
>critics = entire world
>goty/"best game ever" = it's different than Doom/Quake
what's that got to do with Half-Life being like or not like Doom or Quake anyway?

>>1978496
i dont know, im not the guy your arguing with.
i read your last comment though and wanted to point out your a moron if you think half life wasnt universally praised upon release. i didn't say the whole world, someone else did. but it would be reasonable to say the "whole world" of video game critics.

>>1978545
while at it, why not bring Nintendo into the discussion? surely it's not unrelated enough

>>1978427
Just ignore him. Pretty much everyone else itt (or at least the ones that aren't retarded) know that he's an idiot.

>>1978391
>I'm sorry but you fail at game design. 0/10, you didn't do your homework and are trying to save yourself by talking nonsense out of your ass.

Says the guy who thinks picking up a keycard that unlocks a door is functionally different than hitting a switch that unlocks a door.

>I'm not even going to argue btw.
Good. Don't. I'm okay with not fixing your retardation.

>>1978391
>exactly because it was completely different from the Quake/Doom style.

Also, no. There are three things that people shit their pants over.

Hub style levels that integrate into eachother (essentially doing exactly what Quake 2 did but with more 'immersive' start/end points that appear to blend better rather than sticking a door in your face.)

AI - which were scripted to yell what they were doing, that's really where the innovation largely stops on that as the AI handles fairly badly and wasn't really any better than other AI on the market but no one cared because it shouted "I see him" and "grenade." This audio set everyone's titties to tingle. FEAR later replicated this success with awful as fuck combat AI that simply said what they were doing and again tingly tits were had.

In-game Cinematics - Nothing really special here. They just scripted some sequences to happen in game and added audio voices instead of having a cutscenes. Games have done it in the past and even a few FPS games but they were generally more functional and quicker about it. Rather than say having a guy wait for an airstrike for three seconds and bomb shit - they went with just strapping a scientist with audio to your face so he can unlock a door. Lo and behold half life is the great cinematic game of ages for not letting you play it for 30-60 seconds occasionally throughout the thing.

>>1979251
cont...

After you get out of Anomalous Materials chapter the scripted scientist sequences are generally fewer and farther between with a few sections in between where they get back into it a bit. It ends up playing very similar to Quake 2 in regards to enemies and hub play. Which isn't distinctly different from Quake 1 except you get QW like bunnyhopping and air control. The plot isn't largely different from either generic alien invasion using slipgates... resonant cascade kind of stuff. Then there's similar situations with button press bosses, Trap equivalents, spikes/crushers you have to evade from the ceiling, gun/nail traps. Underwater portions to get to the next area including chompy fish. They basically pulled out Quake's handbook and said let's make it bigger. The headcrabs are practically a mini-homage to Quake fiends, enemies that stay relatively still that shoot homing weapons like vores. Portions of the enemies forces being zombified individuals from the persons own group, ala zombified grunts/scientists. Similarities in some weapons including their own equivocal of lightning/rail gun in the gluon/tau. They put their own spin on things and made it their own so it's not a straight rip but it plays in many ways like an oddified Quake/Quake2 hybrid for the most part. It's not 'entirely linear' in it's corridor design as well and there are ways to skip sections if you know how to jump them.

To suggest that it's completely different is having not played either game. Not to mention they could not possibly be completely different because they share the same game genre space by definition they have to have some similarities that are going to be staples of moving around and shooting shit.

>>1979213
>>1979251
>>1979269
>All this flawed tldr autism
See >>1977907

Stay retarded friend.

>>1979395
all what doom/quake-fags can do - ad hominem

>>1979395
>2014
>being this VDF

>>1979764
Nigger I don't even know what VDF means :)

>>1979510

Your trolling falls flat since that Anon was the one arguing against the "HL = Quake" bullshit.

>>1979827
He's not wrong about the ad hom that the troll was using.

>my face when this thread

Why did we let this turn into shit flinging and a pissing contest? This isn't /v/.

I only come here for the Doom threads but I'll stop by to say this. Half Life has I would say, one of the best experiences I've ever had in a video game. It really is fucking awesome.

- great weapon variety (including expansions)
- you go to heaps of different places (seriously, the level variety is excellent)
- challenging gameplay at times, it's not all piss easy
- it's more than just running and shooting, you do other stuff at times but it's not stupidly hard, good exploration and world building
- good variety in the combat encounters and enemy types, some are just regular soldiers, but then you have aliens and black ops ninja types
- big bosses that you shoot the shit out of, why did games stop doing this?
- great multiplayer, it's mod CS revolutionized online first person shooters
- but most of all, it's *long*, remember that devs? long singleplayer fps?

>>1980543
Oh yeah, and the AI.

I still remember being amazed when a soldier threw a grenade around a corner I was hiding behind.

>>1974364
Marathon 1, 2 and Infinity had slower gameplay at times (except multiplayer), great worldbuilding and it's story kicked ass.

To be fair, technology pre HL1 didn't enable for overly complex monster behavior. Plus Duke Nukem tried for realistic level design in some sections.....you of all people should know this.

We won't count mods/fan additions for later Doom/Build/Marathon games because I think that's splitting hairs.

>>1980550
I do not believe it's a question of technology. Neither for AI, nor for realism.
If they wanted Pigcops to throw a pipebomb at you when you're hiding in a corner, they could have.
As for realism, even in the most 'realistic' levels of DN3D, it's always more about the Doom-style conceptual design than about 'realism'. The realism in DN3D is more like a paintjob covering the Doom-like design.
If they wanted more realism than that, they would have made more realistic level layouts and architecture.

I always hear people say that gameplay and level design are the way they are due to 'limited technology' and I think it's bullshit. Well, of course the technology influences the design, but thinking that the essence of gameplay and of level design they went for was a direct consequence of the technology and that they couldn't have done differently is bullshit.

>>1980558
I seriously doubt you could have gotten intelligent AI programming into DooM 1 way back in the day, man....maybe some cool shit in the Build Engine but IDtech 1, first release?

Come on.
Even F.E.A.R 1 was just fantastic scripting.

http://au.gamespy.com/pc/fear/698080p1.html

>>1980587
Are you implying that John Carmack couldn't have programmed an enemy throwing a grenade at you if you're hiding behind a corner?

AFAIK the guy invented sidescrollers on PC for christsake.

>>1980590

Carmack invented the engines the games run on, I'm not so sure on how involved he was in AI programing, or the games design itself.

I don't doubt carmack myself, I mean hes a rocket scientist in his off time.

>>1980590
Carmack now? Yeah piece of cake.

Early 90's Carmack?
I dunno man, especially given the shit they were trying from the Doom Bible.

>>1980603
Doom has super great enemy AI. They're really good at finding the players even if they have to go through corridors and evade tons of walls; (this isn't even the case in Build games in which active enemies suck at finding the player). Also in Doom some enemies have behaviour which depend on where the player is (like for example melee attacks or whether or not they should keep walking toward the player), in that grenade example I'm using I'm sure they could have done it if they wanted to.

>>1973939
Ricochet is one of my favorites, too bad only bots are on the servers now.

I've been thinking a lot about the 1.6 Brain Bread mod lately, might see if anyone still plays that.

>>1974690
I played the shit out of this.

>>1980543
>- challenging gameplay at times, it's not all piss easy

It is when you've beaten the game 5 or 6 times. I can't even remember having trouble with HL anymore except for some of those jumping puzzles/obstacles.

nice thread. I loved the classic mods way more then the HL2 mods. Natural selection and Sven coop. Natural selection in its prime around 2004 was the best time to play, I still think its better than NS2 . Sven coop is amazing coop mod, I love playing all the different maps with scenarios and cutscenes its a really creative mod, it's fucking great to play with friends too.

MY BUMHOLE BURNS WITH THE INTENSITY OF A THOUSAND WHITE SUNS.

Any "doom-like" levels for Half-Life? As in ones where you try to navigate a maze while running around trigger-happy.

Epifanio

What if we played all together to Team Fortress Classic ?

>>1978391
Doom had keycards.

>MFW playing Wanted death match offline because I had no Internet for friends.

Anyone here also play The Specialist online? Funnest death match online shooter ever!

>>1977164
That's another thing, the Spy's revolver is a pretty damn good weapon. It has the power of a shotgun and the accuracy of a rifle, and it's just one bullet. If you can aim, the Ambassador can kill most enemies in two shots, three if they're a Heavy, and seeing every class besides the sniper can't do any damage at a range beyond point-black, it works in the Spy's favor. A scout might be able to smack him with the bat, though.

God I miss Pirates, Vikings & Knights.

>>1982076
yah the ambassador sucks its way too fucking slow, getting the headshots is easy enough but its like BOOM wait BOOM wait BOOM dead, with the revolver BOOM BOOM BOOM dead. God TF2 sucks though the poison pistol from TFC was way more fun.

>>1981687
scratch it

Because Half-Life was a horribly linear, boring shooter; CS was a shitty military shooter that spawned the whole CAWADOOTIE FPS line garbage; Day of Defeat did the same; and Ricochet was just awful.

At least TFC had some redeeming qualities to it, but it wasn't as great as some people think.

>>1977238
>Not knowing anything about Halo's development

Dude... Halo was originally an RTS. Everything story wise was a hold-over

>Cutscenese... influenced by HL

Wait, what? HL was notable for NOT having cutscenes.

>>1973974
>New guns
>New enemies
>Different level design

Opposing Force is often considered one of the best expansion packs ever made. It did a lot of great things, such as not going to Zen. (or at least not finishing there... did OpFor make a stop by there? I can't remember...)

>>1981713
Who's the dude in center? I can't remember seeing him ever...

>>1982185
>CS spawned cawadooty
stop this please

>>1982185
>cs spawned cawadooty
stop this

Because clearly it seems that dumb console mouth breathers who didn't have a decent PC come here.

>>1974770
you just make me sick, never thought i would read those words from /vr/

>>1974720
the specialists was better than action half life, that bleed mechanic was so bloody annoying

>>1973939
That's funny, I just finished Half-Life today. it's an excellent game. I don't know what you guys are on about saying half life has shitty combat, it's pretty much the same as a build engine shooter, the weapons are focused more around strategy and less on run and gun with quite a few indirect combat weapons like the tripmines, grenades, C4 and the snarks.

I don't really think half-life changed anything, if you look at other games from that same year like Unreal, SiN and Shogo which were all released before half-life, you can see the same mechanics that many people claim half-life invented. I imagine if half-life was never made we would find our selfs in the same situation as we are in now.

>>1982365
>Unreal, SiN and Shogo which were all released before half-life, you can see the same mechanics that many people claim half-life invented
And then there was Goldeneye that predated those games...

>>1982379
Goldeneye is terrible

I remember going online and modding my games with custom models and skins. I completely replaced the weapons and models in TFC with Opposing Force counter-parts that someone had made.

I remember downloading maps and even making one. The games never ended!

Now Valve makes money off of other people's creativity.

>>1982381
casual detected

>>1982389
casuals love goldeneye because they used to play it with there big bros when they were 10

>>1982391
casuals hate goldeneye because they find the controls too hard and can't find the menu where to adjust them

also they hate that there aren't any ways to recover health in a mission

>>1974372
Congrats. No one else on Earth shares that opinion.

>>1974803
>calls css sleeper
> doesn't even mention condition zero
> condition zero is the real sleeper

For real though you can only buy it individually. All the BLUE era games and HL2 era games can be bought as packages. Condition zero is just sort of in limbo between both eras.

>>1982396
I do

>>1973993
Paranoia.

>>1980587
Charging at someone and firing is often more intelligent than not. That's something a lot of bad players need to learn. Often times charge and overwhelm IS the better tactic. In that way even Doom is even more challenging and smarter than camping/scripted branching opponents.

>>1982215
His context was in game cutscenes hence the quotations. That is, locking you into a scripted story sequence ala test chamber. It's not a cutscene per say but it might as well be one. Technically you retain control of your character, but your ability and controls are restricted. It's not quite CoD interactive cutscenes, but it's heading in that direction. They're limited though.

>>1982243
>stop this
There are days we all wish we could have.

>If the industry never did anything new and all we ever had was Doom clone philosophy shooters to this day it would have gotten boring as fuck.
That would be far better than what we have today anyhow. Since it might as well be that for the complete lack of decent FPS games. It also would have been far better for the industry and gaming as a whole to slow the rate of casualization.

>>1974735
>>gameplay is much more continuous, smooth transitions between "units"/"chapters"
Doom levels do that. They literally introduce new enemies stage by stage practically and then add the boss until everything is pretty much on the table. The first level you only see zombies and imps. The next level demons. Then you get spectres. Then at the end of episode 1 you get two barons of hells. Which eventually become standard enemies. Then on Episode two you're introduced to Cacodemons. Then the last two bosses cyberdemon/spider mastermind.
Then in Doom 2 they do similar but throw in the other enemies you already seen a bit earlier.

The game is designed that you can pistol start any level, but it's also designed to flow and introduce you to new enemies and concepts and larger levels until pretty much all fucking doom guy lets loose.

>>1980543
Already wrote long praise for this game on this thread, but this pretty much.Especially agree with you about the length part, and the level variety.

>>1982383
You can do the same to this day.

Valve merely provides the tools for the mainstream for a price.
It's rather funny just how right Will Wright was with Spore, being ahead on both the community providing content for the game and even 3D printing before its time.

>>1982396
I do.
inb4 some pathetic attempt at derision like h-h-hipster ;_; because anon is a manchild that can't handle different opinions.

>>1982389
100%'ing GoldenEye (beating the full game on OO Agent and unlocking all the cheats by doing the required speedrun times) takes far more skill than beating Half Life on Hard.

Plus in GoldenEye save-scumming (or saving at all within levels) isn't an option.

>>1982705
In fact it takes more skill than pretty much all single player FPS's I can think of, excluding the Doom games on Nightmare.

>>1982705
I think I completed the game at 99%

I got everything except the facility cheat. I just didn't have the patience.

>>1973939
Half Life would have been one of the GOATs with Counter Strike gunplay. Too bad its gunplay is absolute ass. Except the magnum. Magnum was fun.

>>1982815
seriously, firing the mp5 sounds like someone bothering silverware.

>>1982912
You know what really sucks?

I get that HL1 didn't have Counter-Strike gunplay as CS was created after it.

HOWEVER.

Half Life 2 came out with CS Source. When I bought the game all those years ago they gave both games together. That means the devs were working on CSS in conjunction with HL2. They could have made the gunplay feel like CSS and it would have been so much better for it. Instead they intentionally gimped the gunplay just to make it feel more like the shitty feel of the original. Shame.

>>1982925
not to mention the shit weapon selection.

the crossbow for example. fucking turn off.

>>1982928
I liked the crossbrow brah.

>>1982935
fuck you.

>>1982940
:(

list other games with full cockroach AI.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elwb2lV88hM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH5y4vTCb1k
daily reminder that Korean HEV suit is the best suit.

>>1982081

Right? PVK2 just isn't the same.

The melee is fun, but the regular players all seem to be a bunch of trolls, griefers, and casually racist arseholes.

>>1983003
korean suit is damned kawaii

>>1982705
>takes far more skill than beating Half Life on Hard.
Only because the awful as fuck control.
Play it with a mouse keyboard and watch how absolutely fucking easy it is. Go ahead and plug your controller into your PC and try playing through HL on hard again.You'll be amazed at how wrong you are.

>>1983003
lol german human grunts.

>>1983395
Control mastery is still part of a game kiddo.

And I really doubt HL would be all that much harder with dual analogs. HL is a particularly piss easy game anyway. Are you seriously trying to argue HL is a challenging shooter in any way? Because top lel.

>>1983397
They even rewrote the dialog for them. They're calling Gordon a "bio entity".

>>1983403
Are you seriously trying to argue Golden Eye is a challenging shooter in any way? Because top lel.

>>1983395
>Only because the awful as fuck control.
>Play it with a mouse keyboard and watch how absolutely fucking easy it is. Go ahead and plug your controller into your PC and try playing through HL on hard again.You'll be amazed at how wrong you are.
This is a pretty redundant argument.

GoldenEye was designed from the ground-up with the N64's limitations in mind, both in terms of the framerate and in terms of the controls. To compensate for the decreased precision of the controller, the enemies react slower. The game was never made to be played at 60+ fps with precision KBM controls. To play it on PC with a modification that allows that is essentially hacking the game. It's pretty much the equivalent of cheating and is not true to the core GoldenEye experience. Of course it would be easier that way. That is not how you would judge GoldenEye's difficulty.

Conversely Half Life was built from the ground-up with precision KBM controls. It's a game designed for mouse and keyboard. Why would you play it with anything else?

Half Life's difficulty with mouse + keyboard is what it is. That is true to the game. And GoldenEye's difficulty with an N64 controller is what it is. You've essentially admitted GoldenEye is harder than Half Life.

>>1983403
>Control mastery is still part of a game
This. One might not like GoldenEye because of its controls and that's understandable. I loved GoldenEye once but now in 2014 I don't wanna touch it. But this argument is about difficulty and GoldenEye is definitely a more challenging game than HL.

>>1983472
Hey, more challenging than Half Life, but that's not saying much I guess ;)

>>1983480
>Hey, more challenging than Half Life, but that's not saying much I guess ;)
But it's not. I already told you, it's fucking easy as shit.

>>1983921
;)

>>1983475
As I have said, the difficulty is in the controls. You can slap any shit stain game on a dual analog and you'll get your difficulty level just from incompetent controls. Goldeneye isn't a difficult game at all, analog controls are difficult to use.
What you consider difficulty is merely an input handicap. Because when you take that handicap away, it becomes so much easier than modern FPS games it's not fucking funny.

>>1983935
But the handicap is part of the game son. Apparently you're too retarded to get good at the controls. lol

>>1973939
I put more hours in to DoD than most games... Never liked CS. DoD was my shit. Played it with my dad on the same CD key. If you joined a server at the same time it wouldn't notice. Worked with Tribes 2 too...

>>1983938
> Apparently you're too retarded to get good at the controls. lol
You do realize, so are you. That's the point.
You think it's a difficult game.
You could not think of it as anything other than easy as fuck if you were GOOD at the controls. Because it's not. Listen to what you're fucking saying.

>>1983947
...can... can I be your brother?

>>1983952
Nope. I 100%'d GoldenEye as a kid. I simply acknowledge that GoldenEye, in its vanilla form on the N64, is a more challenging game than Half Life on PC, which I also beat on Hard as a kid without a problem. :)

>>1982525
CS and CoD are nothing a like. You don't even know how to play counter strike obviously. CS is a very cerebral game dude, you have to think on your feet, call of duty on the other hand is as mindless as it comes.

>>1983968
don't bother with b8

>>1983957
So yes. That's exactly the point. Now do what I sugested and find out just how fucking easy of a time you would have had if you weren't fucking terrible using terrible controls. There's pretty much no difficulty to it. GE is easier, period. It's fucking empirically testable yourself, so do it.

>>1983975
But playing a modded version of GoldenEye with KBM is essentially cheating kiddo. You might want to read this post again >>1983475 ;)

>>1983992
You're not too good at reading, bro.

>>1984061
Neither are you kiddo :)

PC gamers just can't stand Goldeneye. They hate it, it makes them spit venom. It really rustles their jimmies that a console shooter pushed the FPS genre further forward than Quake 2 or Half-Life.

How dare Goldeneye have a bad framerate on a piece of hardware from 1996, says the PC gamer playing retro games on a piece of hardware from 2014.

>>1984495
You obviously bumped this old thread because you think this point is valid but it really isn't.

It was a breakthrough for FPS on consoles to console players......to everybody else it was not a big deal at all, pretending that people hate it when they're just dismissive of it only serves to try and make you feel like you're in some good position when it's facile from the start. Sorry :(

Also, Goldeneye had great music.

>>1984537
>to everybody else it was not a big deal at all
Ok buddy ;)

>first fps with stealth based levels
>first fps with zoomable sniper rifle
>first fps that knows the difference between shooting somebody in the arm or in the chest for both damage and animations
>first fps you can reload manually
>first fps which wasn't based around killing everything
>first fps that had a modicum of realism
>first fps that actually gave in-game rewards for speedrunning
>first fps where changing the difficulty changed more than how much damage enemies do and how much health they have

I'm sure I can still do better than this if I try harder :)

But of course in PC land Half Life invented all of this despite coming out 15 months after Goldeneye

>>1982341
>i want to hate on halo, why doesn't everyone think like me ;_;
back to >>>/v/ with you

also this entire discussion is not /vr/ so

>>1984575
Except PC games already had this so what's your point? Nobody here cares about consoles...

Plus how long do you think games are in development for? Like are they made the day before? They're on entirely different engines as well.

We may as well ask you to go over to the doom threads and suck their dicks in thanks for their game essentially inventing fps multiplayer which is the main thing people like in Goldeneye anyway.

Pretending you have an argument and actually having one are two different things anon.

>>1984582
>Except PC games already had this so what's your point?
No they didn't. In August 1997 PC games didn't have any of those things.

And yes I gladly suck Doom's dick as well because it's based as fuck, but it's also true that there was a PC FPS innovation gap between Quake's release and Half Life's release. That gap was filled by Goldeneye, a console game which is apparently too hard for some to accept.

>>1984594
The principles of which have been essentially forgotten because as far as most are concerned, it was Halo 1 that brought FPS to consoles, not Goldeneye.

Can you prove that the design and layout of HL1 was done entirely in fifteen months and not the actual development time? Do Gabe and the rest say they got their ideas off Goldeneye?

One is a matter of ideas being pushed forward, the other is simply time difference leading to the same result, it is an important distinction.

>>1984603
>because as far as most are concerned, it was Halo 1 that brought FPS to consoles, not Goldeneye.
That's almost certainly due to a combination of a PR campaign by Microsoft, considering Goldeneye actually outsold Halo 1 by a couple of million, and that fact that people have short memories.

>Can you prove that the design and layout of HL1
It's hardly reasonable to ask whether one can peer into their minds, but the Thief devs admitted that Goldeneye had a great influence on their own game (and it's on the record) and the game had a similar timeframe of release to Half Life.

>>1984613
So you don't know...
Well glad we cleared that up then :^)

>>1984618
It doesn't really matter. The option was there for Half Life devs to look Goldeneye up. The same option wasn't available for Goldeneye's devs because Half Life didn't exist yet.

>>1984618

You forgot to call him a kiddo in your post, you should work on your /v/fu some more.

>>1984625
So where did that happen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_%28video_game%29#Development

Correct the wiki if you like.

>the only zombie mod you need tier
They Hunger
>god tier
Half-Quake Sunrise
>that fucking heli on hard tier
Paranoia
>great tier
Point of View
Azure Sheep
G-man Invasion
Afraid of Monsters DC
Half-Life: Decay
Half-Life: Invasion
Someplace Else
Cry of Fear
>wait what what tier
Ispitatel: 4 Classic
>bro tier
Sven Co-op
>pretty good tier
Half-Quake Amen
Poke646
Sweet Half-Life
>ok tier
USS Darkstar
Life's End
Deliverance
Heart of Evil NE
Afraid of Monsters
Flat-Life
Mistake
Half-Quake
Case Closed
>iranian detainee tier
Escape from Womera
Prisoner
>czech tier
Dead Sector
Force of Evil
Blbej Den
>talking gordon freeman tier
Todesangst 2
>meh tier
Scientist Hunt
The Dark Secret
>bad tier
They Hunger with HD patch
>space-buddhists-against-hitler bad tier
Buddhist Wars
Sector 6

>Freeman tier
Bill Freeman (X.E.T.)
Jordan Freeman (Timefall)

>rip tier
all dead multiplayer mods

>>1984648
I miss Hostile Intent so much.

>>1982243
It did. Fucking shitty realistic shooters and the fucking cancer they brought to gaming should die.

>>1984902
just like Quake 2 introduced brown n bloom?

>>1984902
While I don't believe Counter-Strike for this, the move towards the more "realistic" fps was unnavoidable. If it wasn't for Counter-Strike it would have been a different game. Instead of placing the blame, you should consider why people were so eager to jump aboard with it, instead of whatever other genre you think CS killed.

>>1984902
no it didn't you fucking mongo, call of duty had 3 games out well after the realse of counter strike that weren't like that. Modern Warfare was their own choice to go down that road, they werent influence by CS. Stop talking out of your ass you fucking faggot.

>>1984648
Sven 2 fucking when?

>>1984902
You never played counter strike in its early days champ. It was not realistic, nobody played it for realism (we had stuff like rainbow six for that), people played it for a fun quick scrim shooter that had quasi quake mechanics.

>>1985562
>It was not realistic, nobody played it for realism
Not even R6 was realistic. CS was touted as a realistic game though more specifically pseudo-realism. Balances between realism and gameplay within reason. Which is one of the primary reasons people played it. It sure wasn't for quick fun or quasi-quake mechanics. The game was slow paced and left a good lot of it's players at the time 'watching' the game instead of playing it and virtually no one used 'quakei-quake' mechanics during play except for the later surf maps, which while having some popularity were not what most people played. Most people played it for sprayability and it's touted 'realism.'

>>1985692
>sprayability
how to lose at CS 101

>>1985714
>how to lose at CS 101
And?

>>1984648
Man, I miss playing those multiplayer mods, sometimes I wish I just could go back in time and play more of that shit.

>>1974723
Didn't know CS had surf maps, but I played a few in Garry's Mod and loved them.

>>1985794
they are still big on source

I don't think it's lack of popularity but more that pretty much everyone here has already played and discussed the shit out of Half-Life and other Valve games in the past that they don't really feel like bringing it up here.

>>1985879
>here has already played and discussed the shit out of Half-Life and other Valve games in the past that they don't really feel like bringing it up here.
Given how much Doom is discussed my guess is your inclination is actually opposite, it's just not very popular here. People discuss the shit out of Doom and it's still here for ages. Whereas a ton of people seem to not have discussed it or know about it. People seem to not care except the VDF stragglers who wander in from /v/ every once in a great while. You're more likely to find people ready to chant about it over there as it was involved with a lot of casualization of modern PC FPS via CS, steam etc...It's one of those games. It essentially filled in as babbys first PC FPS for console gamers jumping onto the bandwagon in at the time. Holding a dear fond memories for terrible gamers like GE and Halo.

>>1986458
Yeah but Doom has great mod support. That's mainly what's keeping it afloat. It's easy as fuck to mod and /vr/ likes uploading its mods for it. If Doom wasn't so easy to mod and make levels for (which people then play and discuss on top of that) I doubt it would have a regular general. It would still definitely be among the most popular shooters on /vr/ but no way it would have a 24-7 general that never dies.

>>1985539
Probably after the Steam release of SC.

>>1977803
Just watching this makes me feel fucking sick.

>Enter this thread
>;), "Kiddo"
Oh god, is like someone was trying to bait this other guy but was baited by his own shit and then someone tried to bit the bait out of his mouth to be the baited one

>>1973943
I really hoping you are not implying new valve games suck.

>>1984648
>No more Natural Selection
>No more Hostile Intent
>No more Science & Industry
>No more Brainbread

At least some of them got real releases or Source remakes. I'm glad Contagion is becoming popular. Zombie Panic was great. I never really liked the Specialists but Double Action Boogaloo is fun.

And then NS2 which isn't perfect, or the same game, but captures that same feeling.

>>1987684
chuckled

>>1989121
valve doesn't have any new games

>>1989121
I hope you're not trying to imply left 4 dead and TF2 matched the quality of their old games. Their new games don't suck but they aren't anywhere near as good as the classic stuff.

>>1989131
Man, I fucking miss Hostile Intent. Do you know any games like it?