/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1943051
>starting a CRT thread with gore

I have a 100Hz CRT. There are multiple scan settings: 100Hz, Natural, Active and Progressive (it scans each 480i line twice to mimic 480p)
Is there a chance one of these has minimal signal processing? How would I determine if it's not buffered and there's less lag, for example?

Surprised this old thing still works it's been in constant use since the early nineties, what do you think? If I ever see a better crt I'll pick it up.
Scart for everything

Is there anyway to mess with windows compatibility settings so I can force 320x240 insead of 640x480?

>>1943216

I think soft15KHz is what you're looking for.

>>1943216
What do you want to run at 320x240? If it's for emulation, you can use Custom Resolution Utility and create a custom modeline that runs at 120Hz. If it's for a Windows game, I have no clue.

>>1943274

>That runs at 120Hz
What's the purpose?

>>1943086
>How would I determine if it's not buffered and there's less lag, for example?
Let's say the Zapper works perfect but not the Super Scope then there's some very small processing as it doesn't scan the source signal directly.
Or use a 2nd TV which is way older and connect the signal to both and take a comparison picture with some sort of timer from the console or whatever you can use.

>>1943225
Only if you want to use a TV or arcade monitor but not a VGA CRT.

>>1943292
So that it actually syncs. 320x240@60Hz has a horizontal frequency of 15KHz, far too low for a PC CRT to sync to. You have to get it up to 31KHz for it to work, either by doubling every line (what old DOS games used to do) or by doubling the refresh rate.

>>1943301

Hmm... OK, I think I could manage the second option. Thank you!

>>1943304

Ah, so PC CRTs tend not to be able to scan slower than 31KHz.
So whatever emulator is being used would simply display each frame twice instead?

>>1943312
>So whatever emulator is being used would simply display each frame twice instead?
Doubling frames causes ugly ghost images. If you want proper CRT motion quality you need black frame insertion.

>>1943312
Yes, and that leads to some issues with motion, namely ghosting. You'd have to add black frame insertion to get it back to regular 60Hz-esque motion.

As such, my advice is to not bother with that approach. If this is for emulation, either stick with good ol' 640x480, or if you want the 240p look, add a scanline filter and increase color intensity to mitigate the loss in overall brightness, unless your monitor is like mine and has a mode to boost scanline brightness.

>>1943318

OK, that makes more sense. How easy is that to implement most times?

>>1943329
Use RetroArch, enable black frame insertion in the video menu. The potentially tricky part is enabling the 120Hz refresh mode. I had to set up a custom EDID embedded in the Linux kernel to get it working with KMS (which is highly recommended for minimum latency).

>>1943346
If you're using RetroArch, you may as well just use 480p with interlacing.cg and not bother with 120Hz at all. Like you said, BFI is necessary to get good motion, and seeing how that cuts the brightness in half anyway, there ends up being zero difference between 480p with scanlines and 240p with BFI. Well, except for the fact that with the former approach, you also get support for games that use 480i, so it is objectively superior.

>>1943350
Oh, but I just noticed you're using KMS, so you'd need to convert the shader to GLSL. That complicates matters just a bit.

>>1943350
BFI approach has slightly better latency.

>>1943350

So 480p with a scanline filter is the ideal way, right?

>>1943357
I have yet to try it on Linux with KMS, but last I tried the 120Hz method (which was admittedly a while ago), I did notice inputs were ridiculously low-latency, but it went back to normal after adding BFI.

Anyway, I much prefer having 480i support over a minimal increase in latency. I cannot see there being much of a difference between them, especially using KMS, but again, I could be wrong.

I really need to get off my ass and finish setting up my most recent install. What distro are you using?

>>1943378
Until recently RetroArch rendered the BFI frames in the wrong order, increasing latency (I think it still does if you're using D3D). Now it renders the image frame first so latency is reduced. There's also the Frame Delay option which further reduces latency.

tcw yuropoor but dont own scart cables

>>1943051
it broken

>>1943350

There's nothing stopping you from using both modes since not every system needs interlacing.

Here's a snip of the jungle IC from my TV, for the dude who wanted it. I'm the guy who's looking to add RGB to my Trinitron.

Pins 22, 23 and 24 are the RGB outputs to the C-board. I've traced them both on the schematic AND physically on the board.

I'm thinking I can hijack either pins 32, 31 and 30, or 29, 28 and 27 to inject my RGB signal. One of those is from the OSD and the other seems to be from an unused (on my model) connector on the board.

>>1943765

Ugh, forgot the pic.

>>1943225
That's redundant. Use CRT Emudriver.

>>1943819

I think you mean obsolete. CRT_Emudriver does the same thing as Soft15kHz, it's just newer and better.

Thinking about getting a fd aperture crt, even though I currently have a shadow mask. Is it worth it?

>pc crt btw

>>1943395
>Frame Delay
How new is this?

Is there any easy way to convert a VGA signal to a YPbPr signal?
My TV doesn't have VGA inputs, but it does have a Component input.

>>1944549

>a VGA signal

VGA isn't a signal anon. VGA is just a graphic chipset standard that states every VGA compliant chipsets output an RGBHV signal (RGB wit H and V sync carried separately instead of having only 1 sync/composite sync signal).

Anyway, yes, you can. But you have to mix the 2 sync signals though.

>>1944557

How do I do it?
And doesn't Y also carry both sync signals on YPbPr?

>>1944563

I don't know, I used RGB since the dawn of times (N64 excepted), so i have absolutely no idea of how Component works, I just know that RGB is easy to convert into this kind of signal.All I know is that the 2 sync signals MUST be put together.
Anyway, there are RGB → Component converters all over the place, just search for one.

>>1944563
>>1944567
YPbPr component video carries the sync signal on the Y component. It's similar to sync-on-green RGB.

>>1944549
It's theoretically simple, but there's not many products that do it well. (Assuming you want 480p YPbPr.)

>>1944586

I see. I was thinking of hooking my Dreamcast up to my TV that way, but I think I might be better off with an RGB SCART cable. I remembered some quirk with my TV where it can't scan 480p at 4:3.

I saw this 36 inch Sony Trinitron should I pull the trigger for $40 and pick this beast up?

>>1944549
The device you want is called a [VGA/RGB] to [Component/YPbPr] transcoder. They make them to go in either direction, so make sure you get the right one.

The really good ones are great and introduce zero latency whatsoever. The cheap ones that have scaling options are bad and can cause lag.

>>1943765
This is the 2nd time when i looked at the schematic of an american Trinitron (i guess), that has a Sony IC like this where i can't find a datasheet for it. I'm slowly starting to think that the Trinitrons with SCART are clearly superior by not using Sony's ICs where the datasheets can't be found.

>One of those is from the OSD
This is in fact common practice in some SCART TVs, both signals share the same pins.
On the KV-M1450D, the RGB from SCART and the OSD are connected. Transistors are used for buffer the signal and resistors make it possible that the buffers can override the RGB input.
You also need to drive pin 25 high to enable the RGB, but this could work in the end.
The only issues you can encounter is that the RGB is offcentered to the left, like 3-6 SNES pixels.
And the contrast of the RGB input might be a little dim compared to composite and S-Video. (both issues are common in SCART TVs)
My personal method to deal with this is to make the composite darker by attaching a external terminator (a little RCA extension adapter with 75ohms to ground) to it. That's how i avoid to adjust the contrast when i switch between a console with RGB and my NES.

>the other seems to be from an unused (on my model) connector on the board.
Teletext or something similar, it would be easier to do. But how to enable this input?
I see I2C on pins 34 and 35, maybe it can be only enabled via software.

The only good question is what voltage ranges do pin 26-28 expect?
What do you want to use as RGB connector?
And follow OSD signals and pin 25.

>>1944678
-Check the model number and make sure it isn't HD
-See if it has component inputs
-Make sure you have a spot to put it

Do the above, then sure.

>>1944678
i had a 32" back in the day.

its going to be heavy as fuck

>>1944930
Excellent thanks for the input. I hear about the Trinitrons quite a bit and was pretty jazzed when I saw this. I'll go back soon and check for component and write down a model number.

>>1944935

I'm definitely going to need to recruit some help to move this big bastard.

>>1944770

Thank you, that looks lile exactly what I would have wanted.
I suspected that the conversion RGBHV -> YPbPr wouldn't introduce much latency, but it sounds great that there's none at all.
Are there any recommended transcoders? Should I just select one which doesn't scale? Does hsync and vsync rate tend to matter with these like it would a scaler?

>>1944678
Does your craigslist not really have much in the way of them? Most of the time you can get them free or close to free because of their size, no one wants to haul them out.

Can anyone explain how RF boxes work? I've been looking at the one with my Dreamcast.
Looks like the only pins it has are the ones typically connected to Ground, Left Audio, +5V and Composite Video.
I'm guessing that the Dreamcast just outputs Composite and Mono Audio which the actual box converts to an RF signal.

So here's a remarkably shitty photo of my Panasonic Quintrix I picked up for £15. I'm trying to show the thick black bar that goes along the top of the display.

Any ideas what causes this and whether it can be fixed? More shitty photos incoming

>>1945928
>>1945928
>>1945928
Wow actually forgot my pic

>>1945928
>>1945934
Here's an ever so slightly better photo, the SNES display seems to be the wrong shape due to this black bar at the top and a smaller one at the bottom.

>>1945946
Fuck. This is what I get for using a camera phone.

>>1944678
Make sure it comes with the remote so you can access the service mode. The geometry will need adjusting.

>>1946127
Is there a list of service mode codes online? I've got pic related and I'd like to mess around with the geometry, at least to make my genesis output fit in it

>it's component only
yes, i'm looking to replace it with something else (an FD Trinitron? I think that's the best series for consumer grade CRTs?)

>>1946208

I'll go ahead and warn you that the Genesis seems to have a lot of problems with overscan and off-center images. If you correct your screen to compensate you might find that everything else is off. Could be a real pain.

>>1946208

Service mode for sony TVs is the same for all of them.

Switch the TV off with the remote, then press quickly in this order:

Display/Info (could be labelled i+) -> 5 -> Vol + -> PWR.

TV should turn on and be in service mode.

Take note of the values, because if you fuck them up you'll need to put them back to defaults. Also, you'll have to look up how to navigate and change entries because it's not user-friendly on Sony sets.

Finally, ANY sony remote will work. I lost mine and tried to use one from a TV that was literally 15 years newer (as in, the lost remote outdated the one I wound up using) and it worked fine.

>>1946241
I thought it was info that would be handy to have if I ever got into Genesis enough that it bothered me.

>>1946248
Thanks a ton! Yeah, the way newer remotes are compatible with the old TVs is great. My Bravia LCD's remote works fine with that + an FD I have in another room, kinda crazy.

>>1946257
Can ANYONE help me? I have an old Samsung CRT that won't display anything but "Line In". It's plugged in, I can change the volume, but not the channels. Any advice?

>>1946289
Do you have a remote to change inputs? The two Samsung CRTs I have have their video inputs and channels separate and won't go from one to the other without actually hitting the "TV/AV" button or equivalent.

>>1946295
I have a universal remote that can get into the menu, but can't seem to select any options. Would the TV/AV switch be available there?

The remote that came with the TV won't even cut it on or off. It has: "ADD/ERA" and "AIR/CABLE" - are those a TV/AV equivalent? The universal has no such thing.

>>1946305

On the universal remote there should be a button marked "source", or it might have a picture of a square with an arrow pointing into it. That'll be the button that tells the TV what input to use.

All universal remotes have a button in charge of that, because all TVs that use remotes have at least 2 sources.

Post a picture of the remote with the labels visible if you still can't find it.

>>1946325
I see the source button, but I'm pressing it and nothing is happening. "Line in" remains.

I managed to navigate through the menu- I have to press the volume buttons on the TV to select + the channel select on the remote to move.

>>1946325
>all TVs that use remotes have at least 2 sources
no, there are plenty of RF-only TVs with IR remotes

>>1946325
>>1946338
By the way, this is a CRT/VCR hybrid. It's 2 in one, hence the issues...

hey guys wanna sell me a crt, nerrrr so high technical!

>>1946358
>>1946338
So, I've done some research.

http://swann.com/downloads/product/567input_selects.pdf

I apparently need to press the "LINE IN" button on the normal remote control to change inputs. This fits with the godawful line in message (seen here http://data.archive.moe/board/vr/image/1399/23/1399230942570.jpg).). However, neither of my remotes have this button, and the "source" button isn't doing anything. Pic related.

Any advice is welcome.

>>1946379
try different remote codes for the same brand of tv. input/source button is one of the ones that can be different between models from the same manufacturer, even if power and volume, etc. are the same. then keep trying that source button.

>>1946435
I've gone through literally every remote code for everything. Only the VCR one worked, and none of the buttons would remove "Line In".

I have bought a remote off ebay for $6 that has a "line in" button on it, I'm hoping that works for me.

>>1946470
>remove "Line In"
Hold on, let's get clear on what you need first. What's the problem specifically?

Do you have a console hooked up to composite and does it work?

Are you trying to change TV channels or just get rid of the text?

If it's just the text, when does it show up? When there's a signal or not?

Can you use it for both the VCR side, the TV channel side, and the input side? What works and what doesn't?

>>1946510
My core problem is that I need to go to channel 3, and am unable to do so because my VCR/TV hybrid is stuck on VCR input.

http://data.archive.moe/board/vr/image/1399/23/1399230942570.jpg

I ordered a universal remote and it could not change it to TV input, meaning I can not change TV channels.

>>1946127
If I don't have the remote, or any other sony remote, would a universal work for accessing the service mode?

>>1946537

Yes, as long as you knew which buttons corresponded to which functions (sometimes it's just a coloured button instead of being labelled).

I can use a Logitech Harmony remote with the little screen to access service mode on 4 different televisions.

>>1946514
If it's saying Line In then it's probably trying to access an actual input, not the built-in VCR (unless the on-screen display is just worded funny.

It probably is not allowing you to go to channel 3 by pressing the number buttons because like you said only the VCR code worked, and VCR codes for channel and numbers are probably different than the same brand's TV codes.

I think the main problem is that your remote just doesn't do the TV side, just the VCR side. So when testing remotes I'd probably focus on that first.

>>1946208
nice, what model?

Do all flat screen crts suffer that horrible fish eye effect with 2d games? Makes we weary of getting a newer trinitron.

so, I just bought 2 Sony PVM-20L5 Trinitron crts

for $200 (+s&h)

they are being shipped across the country to me.

what are the odds that both will be totally fucked?

(pic related)

>>1946756
greater than zero

>>1946756

It seemed like such a good deal, but now that I’m thinking about it. They probably won’t survive transport.

And if they do, who says that they aren't going to have some other major issue.
(CRT buying anxiety, lol)

>>1946760
are we talking at least a 15% chance of a good outcome?

>>1946761
If you bought them from a studio or pro refurbishment dealer I think you're ok.

If it'd an individual who might have never shipped something like a CRT before, you might have more reason to worry.

>>1946763
well, seems like they sell lots of crts and video equipment so i'm not sure

(pic related)

>>1946769
I also ordered a PVM-14m2u (works mostly great, a little issue with very dark green backgrounds)

and a PVM-14L5 (arrived totally fucked)

this is all off ebay

>>1946769
>>1946771
you'll be fine
if not, get your money back

Seeing what people are spending on old broken down CRTs kind of makes me want to buy some CRT manufacturing equipment and gouge the shit out of the retro market.

>>1946780
Yeah?

well, the buy page did say something about an eBay money back guarantee.

anyone have experience?

I wonder how hard it is to use, (if things go sideways.)

Also, I can barely lift the L5 or m2u… I better hit the gym.

>>1946786
you'd die of metal poisoning.

>>1946792
Whatever, I'd be paying some chinamen pennies a day. Who cares if a few die.

>>1946761
Just took a look at the map, its going to be a 3,301 mile journey.

OMG!

>>1946795
don't stop believin'

>>1946794
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf-rNlqeWw4

looks intense if you do it by hand.

I think I see people calling composite "component" more than I see them calling it composite. It really triggers my autism.

>>1946786
>what is makvision

fuckin 500$ . bastards

>>1947060
>makvision
I found one broken website and that's all.

>>1946976

Me too. I'd prefer them to call it CVBS or NTSC/PAL just to clear up confusion.
Then again, it irritates me when people call YPbPr "component" since RGB and S-Video count as component too.

>>1946787
we talking CRT liftan?

I've moved my 2530 PVM and Sony 27in Trinitron up a flight of stair solo. Its been a while since I've done it though. Having long arms helps.

I did have a 36 in 16:9 HD Wega and had no chance of lifting it.

Biggest CRT move jobs solo or otherwise?

>>1947098
>36 in 16:9 HD Wega
does not compute

>>1947098
>>1947198
Probably a 34" unless it's some weird european model. Non NTSC stuff gets advertised a few inches larger for some reason.

>>1946798
Nnnnnnneat. I seem to recall mullard making 'normal' amplification tubes as well.

I'm sure if you won the lottery you could hit up sony and ask about buying some specifications and manufacturing details. Maybe even hire some former R&D people if you've got enough money.

But you'd have to build an entire damn factory for that shit.

>>1947246
Sorry, my apologies...it was a 34in 16:9 Wega. Its been awhile since I've thought about that TV since its long gone and was a nightmare.

Dug up a composite monochrome monitor out of my dad's garage. Other than Super Game Boy, what else might look cool on this?

>>1947378
super metroid intro and the trippy segments in smw2:yi please please please

>>1947420
>both games I don't own

My SNES collection could stand to be improved.

>>1947378
If you would use the Luminance of S-Video instead of composite.

So this thing, the Sony 20G1U. 800 lines, 2 input slots. This guy put it up for sale on his website 2 years ago for $1000, now it's a negotiated price. Is $450 a steal, or should I try for lower?

>>1947429
bummer, i was dying to see some trippy monochrome yoshi madness!
>>1939638

>>1946208
aww man I had a sony tv that looked just like that growing up

I think my sister took it to one of those e waste things years ago

>>1947246
>Probably a 34"
I wasn't asking, I was telling.

>>1947378
old Apple II games
Matrix screensaver

>>1947378
Game.com

>>1944678
I think I had the same model, It can handle 1080i and 480p, but its heavy as fuck, I needed help of another 2 friends to get it upstairs step by step, we almost passed out.

The only problem is that it didn't looked very nice with retro, but ps2, wii, xbox, hell even my ps3 and wii U looked amazing on this thing, the colors where beautiful and absolutely no lag where present, I don't know, I really think I like this one more than LCD screens...

If only it was a little less heavy... I sold it because the furniture where it was standing suddenly began making crakling sounds and I didn't wanted to take risks.

What when we do when all the CRTs end up dying?

>>1947630
4 months and 2 weeks

>>1947630
>2034
>lcd's become as obsobsolete as crts
>thrift stores start denying crts
>hipsters and old people flock to them
>100 neo sheckle listings for composite crts on craigslist with "SUPER RARE" and "ANTIQUE" tags
>All pvm's get bought by retro gaming fans
>they get extremely rare and sold for like $400

>>1947703
On a few of those points, you're off by a decade.

Or two.

>>1947630
Newer flat panels should eventually equal the advantages of a crt. Stuff like gsync will fix refresh rate/scrolling issues, oled and many ips panels have great color, gaming monitors are less than 1 frame of lag already, and the higher resolutions will allow for better filters that smooth out the pixelated look and will emulate crt's even better than stuff like hlsl does now. This will all come together in the next few years, way before crt's die out.

>>1947703
>2034
>CRTs still working
I like how you think. I see this as very plausible as some CRTs made around the WW2 are still working in the museums.

>>1947745
>2057
>warranty for electronics is often 6 months long
>every new display stops working after 1-2 years
I stopped believing in today's "technical evolution", just that the fact that the newest TVs are still deinterlacing every analog signal which doesn't come though the component input is enough proof of this.
These damn chinese simply give zero fucks about of their product quality (and safety), especially when the producer is also chinese or just greedy or dumb.

>>1947816
One of my friends has an LCD that deinterlaces even 480p component. It's terrible.

>>1947830

>Deinterlaces component
wut

>Got a job on a local soap-opera as a background extra on a TV studio
>See two 20 inch PVMs, oscilloscopes and an Ikegami on the set,
>Get absolutely fucking hype
>Approach the guy who was behind the monitors and make up a bit of small talk, if he knew where to get PVMs fixed and if they had some spare sets lying around that they'd need to get rid of
>"Ah, sorry dude, I don't know jack about these old monitors - these are broken and are here merely just as props"

My heart broke into a tiny million pieces.

At least I got paid. ;_;

>>1947830
>an LCD that deinterlaces even 480p component
top fucking kek
But what i meant was just my encounter with this:
>>/vr/thread/S1404726#p1421436

>>1947848
It was reading every other line of the 480p signal and deinterlacing it.

>>1947864

Jesus. How do you even fuck up like that?

>>1947870
I'm sure the TV treats all 240 and 480 signals the same way. The kind of component it wants is the "hd ready" 720p or 1080p variety.

No one I know has had a LCD go out on them except for smashing the screen. The seem to last fine to me.

I like both, and will keep a CRT around just for that classic arcade feel.

So I finally got off my lazy ass and took some pics of this Ikegami monitor I bought. Here ya go:

My frontend

Gradius 3:

>>1947947
I've seen quite a few backlight failures over the years, on laptop as well as deskop LCD screens.

Dodonpachi:

Castlevania:

extreme closeup!

My ghetto alternative to a candy cabinet. Notice the pads on the side of the monitor to make rotation easy.

>>1948181
>>1948185
>>1948194
>>1948214

>>1948240
I'd be too worried about it sliding backwards/the stand sliding forwards to have a monitor set up like that.

>>1948310
It has a brace on the back to keep it from sliding.

>>1948482
Well that's good then.

>>1948240
does that have component/RGB input?
(what resolutions does it support?)

how is that pc connected? (vga-480p?)

So my PVM-14L5 is broken (Came in the mail this way)

I have the service manual, so I was going to open it up and see if could spot anything obvious. I’m not very technical (I can build a PC and softmod some game systems, but you guys know most of that that stuff is easy)

(unit won’t turn on, just makes a clicking sound with a faint light on the screen then blanks out)

If I can’t fix it, what should I do with it?

Give it to goodwill? (I hear they have people that fix old electronics sometimes)

Give it to an e-waste recycler? (Don’t most of them just dump stuff off at polluted rivers in china?)

Sell it for parts? (Don’t think I could ask more then $35 and shipping would be at least $65)

What do you guys think? (Any suggestions?)

>>1949079
Definitely open it up and post photos. Something could have easily just come loose in shipment especially the neckboard.

>>1947473
>Sony 20G1U

make sure it comes with the control board and connection cable.

what option cards (if any) does it have instilled?

how many hours does it have on it?

does that price include shipping?

>>1949101
ok, i'll take lots of pics, and some video.

when I have it opened.

I'm kind of sick of my Wii as an emulation device. How can I connect my computer to my CRT? Preferably using SCART. Is CRT_Emudriver the only option? Because that would require me to build a whole new PC dedicated just for that since my hardware isn't compatible.

>>1949535
VGA -> SCART cable with sync combiner circuitry. If the Windows hacks don't work, boot Linux and just configure a 15KHz mode with RandR.

>>1949547
>sync combiner circuitry
I'll never be able to build one of these myself. What should I do?

>>1949551
Set composite sync - most cards will do that for you.

>>1949535
you could try this.


(what model of CRT are you using?)

why are you down on the WII?

it can emulate everything fairly well, except NeoGeo games over 20mb

what are you looking to do with a pc?

>>1949573
ATI cards are usually better at 15hz on Windows (XP)

Does groovy arcade work with Nvidia cards?

>>1949573
I'm using some LG CRT. Hooked up my Wii with RGB scart. I pretty much want the ability to emulate Saturn on the thing and maybe some arcade games using Mame. Also, media playback is pretty much impossible so that would be nice on my CRT too.

>>1949586
oh, that makes sense

this video might help you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxqifZISdJ4

>>1949581
Don't do this, you don't want 15Hz.

>>1949598
why?

>>1949603
You're mixing vertical refresh with horizontal.

You want a 15kHz horizontal scan rate, but the vertical refresh will still be 60Hz.

Assuming a monitor has a high enough horizontal scan rate is there a point where the resolution would be so high that it is limited by the shadow mask? How would you know you've exceeded that point?

>>1949720
If I understand your question properly, yes, logical screen resolutions on CRTs exceed mask/grille sharpness all the time at the high end.

You can tell by manually counting the discrete pixel/stripe triads spanning your display. Any horizontal resolution higher than that number is being physically limited.

So I've managed to get to the service menu of my Panasonic Quintrix. Every value I changed has saved EXCEPT for the Vertical Amplitude, which is set to '000'. It's supposed to be set to '029' which fills the screen perfectly, but after I save it, switching to AV or turning the monitor off sets it back to 000 again.

Any ideas what gives?

>>1949547

What kind of cable do I need to hook a pvm-20L5 up to a PC? (It can do 480p)

Would something like this work?

>>1949079
>(unit won’t turn on, just makes a clicking sound with a faint light on the screen then blanks out)
I think that the protection circuits gets active, it's purpose is to cease the entire set from operation for safety reasons if tube current is outside it's valid range for example.
I would measure the voltages according to the manual.
Do you get tension on the screen like all other CRTs when they power up or down?

>(Don’t most of them just dump stuff off at polluted rivers in china?)
Nah, more like in fuckin africa where niggers are burning that stuff like cavemen and breath that toxic smoke and get sick afterwards.
>Sell it for parts?
Yes, the tube and case looks fine to me. (as long that you took that pic)

Sent an email to a local studio last week.
They actually acknowledged my email and asked what I use the monitors for.
Hopefully they'd be willing to let me take them off their hands.

I already have 2 PVMs and a BVM. I have a problem. Help.

>>1949958
well, if you have space for all of it.

>>1949990
>tfw live with parents
>tfw "you're not bring more junk into my house are you?"

>>1949796
More like this

>>1949998
tfw

>>1948240
dude wtf I don't know whether to call that amazing or a monstrosity. I think both

>>1949998
I know that feel. They let up once I actually got a job and started helping with bills and shit, though.

>>1949998
ParentsJustDontUnderstand.midi

>>1949048
Yes it has rgb which can be switched to component. Its 15khz, the pc is connected using a radeon x600.

>>1949958
A local studio? You live in California? Sell one to me

>>1949551
ultimate scart adapter

>>1949998
>my mom is a hoarder
>huge basement full of shit
>clean the shit out of one room down there
>make it a gaming room

They can't complain.

>>1950227
geocities pls

>>1950341
>black background
>bright green text
>javascript for random midi jukebox
>animated gifs errywhere

I want to build a MAME arcade.
Can I get away with using a PVM or am I gonna need a higher resolution than 240p?
I've heard that arcade monitors are higher than 15kHz.
Can someone fill me in

>>1949745
>>1949745
Bump. This doesn't make any damn sense.

>>1950482
What was your source signal?
50hz or 60hz and what does your country use?

>>1950443
first decide what games you wanna emulate, then decide resolution. 31khz is for newer arcade games. everything like early 2000s and previous is 15khz. there are some weird ones mixed in there too.

If money is no object than a tri-sync would be best to play everything available, yeah

>>1950443
I would just use a PC CRT unless 15khz authenticity is extremely important to you.

>>1950509
If I understand what you're asking (my knowledge is very limited, I just picked up the tv a few days ago) then it's 50hz, I'm in the UK... It's a small 14 inch flat screen CRT with one scart socket, I'm using an AV to scart adaptor to connect my PAL SNES.

>>1950653
problem is pc crts are so small usually . hard to find a large one. Also were in the CRT thread I'd hope that people are concerned with 15khz authenticity.

pretty bad advice, this post warrants a shitload of discussion

>>1950813
>Also were in the CRT thread I'd hope that people are concerned with 15khz authenticity.

There's nothing special for 15khz besides the fact it's what most consoles output. For emulation, it doesn't matter what the scan rate is as long as you can get the CRT to output like you want. And since modern PCs can't output 15khz without specific hardware with driver hacks, it makes more sense to try to use what PCs natively output.

>>1950813
>problem is pc crts are so small usually

17-inch to 21-inch is plenty. Anything bigger is just going to be extremely heavy and have more geometric distortions anyway.

>>1950827
I have to disagree, the shadow mask on a pc monitor is way too sharp for these classic games to have that retro look. There may be no technical advantage, but if a classic arcade look is what you're going for then a 15khz screen is a must. I also think bvm's are a bit too sharp, and even they aren't near as sharp as a vga monitor.

>>1950827
>And since modern PCs can't output 15khz without specific hardware with driver hacks,
Literally any Radeon made in the past decade+ can output whatever video mode you want, up to like 800MHz pixel clock.

>>1950852

Well that's an issue of screen, not scan rate. Even a PC CRT synced to 15khz, it would be very sharp compared to a TV.

Of course, you could always introduce horizontal blur to offset the sharpness of the phosphor grid.

>>1950860
>Radeon

What about Nvidia or Intel?

>>1950869
I haven't owned an nVidia card in a while, but the VGA port on my Atom netbook is fully configurable. Here's Doom running on a 15KHz Atari monitor.

>>1950852
>but if a classic arcade look is what you're going for then a 15khz screen is a must

There was a guy who posted a pic of a Diamondtron PC monitor displaying 240p (or it looked like 240p) that I assumed was a 15khz PVM or something until he pointed out what it was.

Now I'm really wanting that monitor because there's almost no chance I'd ever find a PVM anyway.

>>1950886
>Diamondtron

those are also very hard to find in good condition


>>1949998
>>1950206

I also know that profeel bro

>>1950832
17 to 21 inch is plenty enough for a pleb

>>1950827
d00d what. Sure it's PCs native output but it's also PCs native and shitty upscaling. You'd be better off getting an actual upscaler and a scanline generator if you want to use a PC monitor or a proper HLSL setup.

I don't understand how you could reason that native 15khz isn't important to someone interested in retro gaming on CRTs

>>1951016

You don't know what you're talking about. You don't have to do any upscaling on PC either, there's absolutely no need to waste money on an external upscaler or scanline generators when you can do both of those things with shaders if needed.

>I don't understand how you could reason that native 15khz isn't important to someone interested in retro gaming on CRTs

Because it's just a signal, the actual output is what matters.

>>1951025
no I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about. to each his own though. keep enjoying that authentic mame-upscaled non-native resolution experience

>>1951029
>mame-upscaled

I don't use MAME

> non-native resolution experience

The way I do it, it's non-native horizontally, but native vertically and native refresh rate. Since CRTs display horizontal resolution in a non-discrete way, it's pretty much exactly the same as using the "actual" native resolution and the high horizontal resolution has benefits for games that shift horizontal resolution internally.

>>1950302
There are studios everywhere. I found a few in Raleigh, NC of all places. I figured Greensboro and Charlotte would be the only places with them, but quite a few emailed me back (only one had any CRTs and that guy was a dick about it, led me on for a long time before finally saying he wouldn't sell them to me).

Why hasn't any business tried making new CRTs?

I mean, theres clearly a market for it

>>1951418
Not really. We are just a handful of nerds on the internet. And I think there are some making them for arcades.

>>1951418
Are you ready to pay $2200 for a 20" CRT?

Consumer electronics are only inexpensive when a large enough market exists to leverage economies of scale. There aren't enough retro nerds around to support that kind of effort.

>>1951445
>>1951435
Well actually what about hospitals and broadcasting corporations? Don't they still use CRTs over LCDs for good reason?

>>1951473
They've all switched over due to cost. It's way more cost effective to buy a modern, still-supported LCD than it is to keep an old CRT around that you have to worry about finding some old bastard to do repairs when it fucks up. And honestly, production quality LCDs are more than adequate for their purposes.

We are an extreme niche of a niche.

>>1951119
thought we were talking about mame. also wouldn't non horizontal eliminate the scanlines you get with 15khz ? There has to be some loss on the visual side of things

>>1951418
makvision arcade monitors

>>1951521

Scanlines are vertical resolution, horizontal resolution only determines the shape of the pixels. If scaled correctly, there is no quality loss, in fact the larger horizontal resolution gives a quality gain if you're using Gaussian blur to simulate signal bandwidth (for SNES hires blending, softening edges, etc).

>>1951536
How are you upscaling ? also softening edges what

I know this is a CRT thread, but I need some advice and don't really wanna start a new thread.

I'm trying to test my new NES toploader and games and its coaxial only. I only have 2 LCD tv's and neither is recognizing the coaxial cable. The AV/Multi-out works fine on my SNES and N64 on my retro TV.

I've considered buying a CRT and theres a 24 inch CRT for free around my neighborhood I emailed the dude about but I really just want to make sure this shit powers up and works asap.

Any tips or advice? Ones a sharp, ones a vizio.

>>1951541
Like this.

holy shit i'm pumped. just found out i had a spare graphics card laying around with an s-video out. I gotta grab a CRT to test out 15khz on this thing. I know there is soft15khz but is there a newer version that people are using? I remember someone mentioning it in another thread

>>1951559
>rf
>lcd
>visio
>nigger

>>1951662
Sorry to break it to you, but AFAIK you cannot get actual 15KHz 240p out of S-video on cards that have it. Best you'll get is 480i, and typically downscaled from 800x600 at that, or something like that. It will not look good.

What people tend to do instead is output from VGA into RGB SCART or BNC with a breakout cable or converter.

>>1951694
source ? also this is with soft 15khz?

>>1951695
CRT_Emudriver is what people use now.

>>1951696
thx thats what i was looking for. there is alot of support for soft15khz over at arcadecontrol forums though

>>1951559

Have you tried rescanning channels with the coax cable in and the NES on?

Yo /crt/,
look what I found in my Hallway today.
I bought the black Trinitron a while ago, but now I dont know which one to keep.
I think the black one is probably better overall, but the Geometry is a bit fucked in the corners, the image is shifted too much to the left, and I have no Idea on how to fix all of that (and dont know anyone who does).
I'll probably keep the silver one, although getting rid of the other will be a pain.
What do you think?

>>1952797

Try entering the service menu

>>1952818
I already did that, but there are some things that cannot be fixed with the service menu.

>mfw playing PC games on a CRT monitor again and actually liking how it looks better than my LCD monitor

Why the hell did I ever switch to LCD?

>>1951695
Soft 15kHz has no effect on the video output, it will only put out 480I

>>1952845
S video I meant

>>1946756
lol

Actually, you only bought one. I bought the other one.

Incidentally, I've purchased two others, the first arrived in working condition, and the other was totally fucked, I got my money back, though.

>>1952797
>but the Geometry is a bit fucked in the corners
Like the colors go apart?
Then it's bad final/corner convergence, it's not very difficult to fix but don't expect a perfect match up.
>the image is shifted too much to the left
Are you using SCART RGB?

>What do you think?
Is it the picture or does the the Black Trinitron have darker phosphor than the silver one.

>>1952836

Higher resolution typically.
LCDs are only good for native resolution and PC games can typically be run at whatever resolution you like.

Just to double check, if I buy a Dreamcast RGB SCART cable will it work with all regions of games? S-video the same?
My console is PAL.

>>1950852
>>1950886
>>1950894

Does this mean an aperture display like the DiamondTron is better than a shadowmask pc crt for emulation purposes?

>>1952873
It does have darker Phosphor.
Although it seems it is more pronounced in the image.
Here is a picture that displays the problems with the geometry.
Its not super bad, and the colors dont go apart by much, but it is pretty wobbly, and missing around 9 pixels on the left side.
I am using Scart RGB for video.

>>1953090
The geometry looks pretty normal to me.
Rotation is caused by misalignment of the yoke or by the earth magnet field, often not worth the trouble to fix that.
>but it is pretty wobbly
With every signal you input?
>and missing around 9 pixels on the left side.
>I am using Scart RGB for video.
Normal for RGB. Your TV might have an RGB input channel which might fixes that.
You could correct that (in service menu or inside the TV) but you will also affect the setting for composite or S-Video.
It's possible to build a device that can correct that too, so you don't have to mess with the geometry settings.

>>1952865
>Actually, you only bought one

Yeah I just realized that the other night. silly me being sleepy and buying stuff of the internet. lol

If it’s busted, he’s not going to be a dick about giving me refund right?

I got a dead bvm-14f5e off amazon a few months ago and the asshat wanted me to take pictures and video of the thing “not working”.
Pissed me off so much, and put me off of buying any CRTs for almost a year.

But I really want a 20 inch set that can do 480p/240p for NES and DreamCast stuff.
It’s just coming from so far away I’m not feeling very optimistic. And I hear UPS is the worst way to ship a monitor.

>>1953126
UPS is the worst way to ship anything

>>1953120
>With every signal you input?
Well, with Scart RGB and composite driven from my SNES.
It looks good on the silver Trinitron, so the source shouldnt be the problem.

>Your TV might have an RGB input channel which might fixes that.
Yeah, otherwise there is even more of an left shift.
Sadly the horizontal alignment doesnt work with this model, so 9 pixels on the left missing is the best I could have.
>It's possible to build a device that can correct that
I've never heard of something like that, I'll research that a bit.

My cousin has this 20ish sized sony trinatron crt tv with s-video and rgb plugs. i ask him and he gives me a vague answer ''My mom uses it, but we might get rid of it''. I have no room for it either way.

>>1953142
I build this. I added a another 6.8k resistor in parallel because i couldn't get sync without it.
I also engineered a preamplifier for the LM1881 which makes the sync more stable.

Anybody know anything about the KV-36FS210?
Good bad? Has two component input. Having trouble determining online if it is high def.

Not exactly retro, but I have a question for you guys:

For modern consoles, given the choice between HDMI and Composite Cables, which is best?

>>1953221
>Having trouble determining online if it is high def.
>FS
It isn't.

>>1953314
Which trinitron models are HD?

>>1953319
there's a list, but iirc it's HS, XS, and certain XBR

>>1953226
HDMI is always the superior choice.

>>1953334
Next question: Using a PS3 to run PS2 and PS1 games through an HDMI cable is the absolute best method for playing PS2 and PS1 games?

>>1953353
is it an old fat ps3 with a built in ps2, or is it a later model with an emulated ps2?

>>1953353
No playing on the real hardware is

>>1953353
No, a PS2 is best for both (though a PS1 with RGB ouput is just as goodd for PS1 games). PS3 adds delay to both no matter what the model.

>>1953354
I don't actually have a PS3 right now, I am planning on getting one.

Old model PS3s are superior to newer models?

>>1953358
>>1953362
I live in Brazil, so using SCART cables is just not an option for me. I know I can get component cables for PS2 or cheap, so all I'd need is a compatible CRT-TV.

The PS3 delay, first time I read about that. Is it all that bad?

>>1953369
>Old model PS3s are superior to newer models?
For PS2 yes, but you should use an actual PS2 anyway.

>The PS3 delay, first time I read about that. Is it all that bad?
It's enough to be noticeable, and if it's noticeable then I don't want it. I don't have numbers though.

>>1951536

I've read that using wider horizontal resolutions can get around minimum pixel clock issues.

So I have an Emmerson CRT from the 80s.

I just got an N64 and wanted to play on it, but when I turn it on it says CH SET (Channel#)

Is there any fucking way to get this shit to go away. I dont have cable, the TV has no menu button, and I dont have the original remote.

Will a universal remote even work with this shit

>>1953565
Maybe not, you can buy the remote online, but for the price you could just get another tv w a remote. Besides old crt's are kind of shit compared to 90's and 2000s ones. If you ask around you can probably get one for free.

>>1953540

Dude, stop.
We all know you can make filters that make scanlines look close like the one on a BVM, so stop spamming the very same pictures every thread.

>>1954050
I like it, but I wish he would take more pictures (of other games)

what camera is that from? and what are the settings that let you take such nice shots of a CRT? (don't see any beem shadow)

>>1953153
thats pretty cool, although I dont think I have time to build something like this.

So my only CRT just blew.

Any way to make a modern TV look AT ALL acceptable until I can get a replacement. I was so close to beating Battle for Naboo

>>1954385

A nice upscaler, perhaps?
Nothing's going to look as good as a real CRT, but if you get a good one it'll look better than simply plugging your hardware into your TV. Less lag too.

>>1947378
I just realized
Monochrome monitors don't have pixels. Horizontal lines are completely solid.

>>1947456
I want to try this somehow. I'm thinking that I could just hack up a composite cable to pull from the luma pin.

>>1954593
>Monochrome monitors don't have pixels

>>1954593

The luminance pin carries the composite sync in exactly the same fashion as composite video, so it should work.

>>1954593
>implying that CRT have pixels
Please stop.
Also monochrome CRTs don't have a shadow mask as it isn't needed, also no degaussing coil. And magnets would only affect the deflection.

>I want to try this somehow. I'm thinking that I could just hack up a composite cable to pull from the luma pin.
Nice that you acknowledged me.
The official cable that came with my GameCube and N64 have only the pins they need but i'm not sure about the others.

>>1954603

Not him but monochrome monitors don't have a mask or a grid, so they don't really have pixels according to the definition.

>>1954625

>>implying that CRT have pixels
>Please stop.

Yes they have pixels. Before being called pixels, the "computer pixels" were called dot, while the 3 electron beam hitting the the phosphor face of the glass, after being filtered by a shadow mask OR an aperture grid. This is the original definition of pixel: a dot composed of 3 smeller dots, which respective color change in intensity in order to reproduce another color.

>>1954632
CRTs themselves really don't have physical "pixels" though, just dot or stripe color triads. You can't really call them pixels since they aren't discretely addressable.

You're talking about logical pixels, as used on the computer.

>>1954625
>implying that CRT have pixels

You should know what I meant. Get your head out of your ass.

>>1954669
>You should know what I meant.
You meant dots but instead you said pixels.
Don't blame me if you don't know the right terms to describe things

>>1954658
>>1954681

You still don't understand that what you call "pixels" aren't pixels but dots, and what you call "dots" are what pixels really are.
A pixel according to the definition is formed by the 3 electron beams hitting the phosphor glass after passing through a mask of a grid. This is what a pixel really is. Using the term pixel or a computer dot is a Malapropism.

>>1954691
if they ain't pikkels then how the heck they do the pikkel art?? /s

>>1954632
>they don't really have pixels according to the definition

>>1954691
The phosphor pattern on a CRT isn't addressable. It's not pixels.

>>1954632
>>1954625
>>1954658
>>1954669
>>1954681
>>1954691
>>1954736
>>1954754
Y'all can't just claim that one definition is right over others without posting a source. Sometimes there is conflict about meaning and whether certain aspects are really necessary. When you consider that "pixel" is just short for "picture element" and has been used in varying nomenclatures to simply mean "that smallest discreet part of an image" and has been used outside of light reproduction, it's important that we know form where you are speaking lest we make the pointless semantic argument even more pointless.

I'm just looking at Wikipedia, y'all can bust out those technical manuals and graphics rendering papers I know you clever fellows all have access to and duke it out.

>>1954803
what this guy is trying to say that 3 beams hitting the glass is a triad that is the 3 beams togheter and they form a pixel
now lcd dont have phosphor beams they are called subpixels but they really are small little lights i dont know the technical name of it but its commonly accepted as subpixel and 3 subpixel forming a pixel

>>1954754
>The phosphor pattern on a CRT isn't addressable. It's not pixels.

It is you moron. The term predated the arrival of video terminal in the computer world.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pixel

What is the smallest component of the picture on a CRT? The 3 freaking color dots that makes the pixels. It's the original definition, from the mid 60s.

>>1954803

>>1954632 and >>1954691 here, check the link I've posted.

>>1954803
Standard Handbook of Video and TV Engineering gives the following definition:
>A pixel is defined as the smallest area
of a television image that can be transmitted within the parameters of the system.

>>1954816
You don't "process" the phosphor pattern. It is not individually addressable. You cannot light up a single phosphor - you are controlling a raster beam which sweeps across them. The smallest addressable elements are not phosphor dots, but logical pixels.

>the smallest element of an image that can be individually processed in a video display system.
Nowhere does a CRT "individually process" the phosphor pattern.

>>1954813
>>1954823
You guys aren't supposed to be replying to me, you're supposed to be replying to each other. I just came to point out that you can't have a semantic argument without without showing each other the basis of your definition, since many words have different meanings within particular nomenclatures, and even if your definition is correct, no one will believe you unless they see it themselves.

>>1954828

Point me the part where it is said that it had to be processed by the computer or the machine that feeds the video signal.
The smallest part of the picture that is processed are the 3 dots, by the electron guns.

>>1954803
Mono CRT: scanlines, dots
Color CRT: scanlines, dots
Mono LCD: pixels
Color LCD: pixels, subpixels
Rasterized picture: pixels
My definition of pixels and dots. I don't care what others say.

Just so you know you guys all sound fucking retarded atm. Maybe channel your autism into starting a CRT referb company

>>1954862
>Maybe channel your autism into starting a CRT referb company

I was already thinking about it, but thanks for the advice anyway.

>people getting angry over the definition of "pixel"

So what do we call the individual RGB phosphor groups? How else would you describe the difference in the physical tube of a monochrome monitor vs a color monitor?

>>1954868
We're gonna need you guys soon enough for this. I mean us that enjoy CRTs for gaming rather than discussing semantics of the tech

>>1954858
>CRT: scanlines, dots

>>1954872
dot/stripe triads
dots

"Pixel" is actually a rather ill-defined word

CRTs do not have digital pixels, which is something the modern popular definition implies heavily.

CRTs have pixels the way your corneas have pixels.

>>1955057
>CRTs have pixels the way your corneas have pixels.

Your sentence is another proof that CRTs produce a more natural picture than LCDs.

>>1954050

Why exactly are you so uppity about someone posting a CRT pic?

>>1955148

'cause he've been posting the exact same piture for, like, a year?

>>1955148

'cause he've been posting the exact same picture for, like, a year, in every CRT thread?

Do I spam my Princess Maker 2 pics just because they're displayed on my Dell E771p monitor? They have awesome scanlines, and natural ones (no filthy shaders), but it's not a reason to post it into every /crtg/ as soon as i see one.

>>1955214
>filthy shaders

elitist trash, you give a bad name to crt enthusiasts

>>1955214
Yeah but now you have to post it because I got curious.

>>1955221
>elitist trash, you give a bad name to crt enthusiasts

Funny, because there used to be that
>filter
thrown every time someone posted a screen that used one, but now it's an elitist thing uh?

>>1955224

Only because you asked for it. also, sorry, it's not from my Dell E771p, but my Samsung Syncmaster 955b.

>>1955214
>They have awesome scanlines, and natural ones (no filthy shaders)

This whole thing about "natural scanlines" is entirely in you head. The scanlines at 240p and the scanlines at 480p are exactly the same, just that there's a difference in the number of scanlines and the size of the gaps.

Also, do tell me what's wrong with using shaders to accurately simulate signal blur and adjust colors to how the real consoles output looked, It's something that you need to do for certain games for correct transparency effects as well.

I need to buy a CRT for SNES and PS2, anything 20" - 30" is preferable (due to lack of room) What to look for, what to avoid? im a britbong if that makes any difference. My knowledge on tech is shite. Is looking for a more later model TV made in late 90's to whenever they stopped being produced smart due to possibly lasting longer/CRT's being perfected? All TV's that do both composite/component, will component always look better for PS2? Sorry for barrage of questions

>>1954117
Galaxy S3 camera. I just mess with settings until it takes a decent pic. It has a tendency to make things look "glowy" than in real life. Still gets the idea of how it looks across.

As requested, I'll post pics of some different games.

>>1955392

>>1955395

Dat pink hair Simon

PSX looks great on this

>>1955418

>>1955373
>The scanlines at 240p and the scanlines at 480p are exactly the same,

31kHz monitors can't display a 60Hz 240p video signal.

>Also, do tell me what's wrong with using shaders to accurately simulate signal blur and adjust colors to how the real consoles output looked, It's something that you need to do for certain games for correct transparency effects as well.

Adding lag and delays, thus minimizing the advantages of the CRT you're using is supposed to give you for a semblance of accuracy? Let's not forget that we uses them for their fast response time, and that the scanlines are just optional. It's nice to have them, but if they aren't present, then no fuck given. Wanting scanlines at all cost is hipsterism.
About transparency, no, you don't need all of that. All it needs is a good timing and being displayed at the right resolution, that's why it isn't right on 31kHz monitors.
Also, talking about accuracy while using emulators is pretty ironic. I use them too, but they're only a temporary solution before getting the real thing at an good price, because they're far from being the best way to play a game

>>1955424

What's the difference between 240p and 480p with all black every other line?

>tfw you had a fuckhuge 50"+ CRT flatscreen Toshiba and you sold it for $100 a few years ago

It was shit, right?

>>1955439

It was probably 100Hz or HD or had some other issue like that.

>>1955424
>31kHz monitors can't display a 60Hz 240p video signal.

So? Use 240p 120hz + black frame insertion, or 480p with inserted scanlines. Both get you about the same thing and brightness loss can be counteracted with a color intensity boost. The first option will give you a slight decrease in latency due to how vsync works, but makes any sync imperfections immediately obvious.

>Adding lag and delays,

Shaders do not add any negligible latency because they run on the GPU, and are run parallel with the emulator. They do not interfere with vsync or input unless your GPU can't handle the shader. This is NOT like those "external upscalers" you can buy, which emulators already have the same inbuilt latency those things have anyway due to vsync (which can be reduced with certain techniques)

>Wanting scanlines at all cost is hipsterism.

Oh Jesus Christ, just shut the fuck up. It's a fucking prefernce if you like line doubled 480p or scanlined 240p, it is not some attempt to

>About transparency, no, you don't need all of that. All it needs is a good timing and being displayed at the right resolution, that's why it isn't right on 31kHz monitors.

It's an issue of signal bandwidth and of phopshor dot pitch. You probably won't get the proper transparency effect on SNES hi res without a shader even with 15khz output from a PC anyway.

>>1955437

A minimal difference on pure black screens if your CRT can't display 100% black for some reason. Otherwise, not really any difference.

>>1955461

I don't think there'd be a noticeable difference. I wish I had a PC CRT.

>>1955458
>Also, talking about accuracy while using emulators is pretty ironic. I use them too, but they're only a temporary solution before getting the real thing at an good price, because they're far from being the best way to play a game

I like "accuracy" in emulation and all that, but you sound like you take it too far. For about 90% of games on retro systems that are well emulated, you probably couldn't point out any differences that actually mattered. Maybe if you were an experienced speedrunner or a TASer you might point timing discrepancies in emulators that aren't cycle-accurate.

Yes, emulators will have input latency due to vsync, but that can be mostly mitigated through various methods like frame delay. With a good setup, there are very few differences playing on an emulator vs the real console. If you wish, you can simulate signal blur with NTSC shader/filters

You can go out and buy all the actual consoles you want, but saying that they're always "the best way to play a game" is a pretty ignorant and sweeping statement. Sure there are systems like N64 and Saturn that aren't very accurately emulated, but for systems like SNES and Genesis, those have emulators that are almost 100% accurate to actual hardware. Seeing as you can do things with emulators like overclocking, outputting RGB, and other things that would be difficult or impossible on certain consoles, I'd say that, under ideal circumstances, emulation is in fact the "the best way to play a game".

>>1955492
>Seeing as you can do things with emulators like overclocking
I don't know a NES emulator that can do that, but it's possible to overclock the CPU of an actual NES.

>>1955512

You can't do it nearly as easily or nearly as much.

By the way, I remember seeing some videos of overclocking SNES enhancement chips to give better framerates in games like Star Fox, but I don't know if this increases the speed the rest of the game runs at.

>>1955536
Overclocking the SuperFX does increase game speed slightly

http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Overclocking#SFX_chip

>>1955550

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfNI3HpUt-4
That game actually looks fun now.

>>1955424
>Wanting scanlines at all cost is hipsterism

>About transparency, no, you don't need all of that

Some games look super fucked if you don't fix the dithering (look at the shadows, and other lines in the first pic)

and scan-lines add shape and definition to blocky pixels. (see the faces in the last pic)

(but the lines have to be the correct with for that resolution)

>>1955412
>>1955421
>>1955435

Are you using the tv-out tweaks shader?

do you have to use integer scaling?

and black frame insertion?

could you give me a break-down of your settings?

(video settings and what shaders you're using)

>Pick up first CRT at thrift store
>Has component inputs
>Flatscreen
>Excited, bring it home
>Pictures looks great
>Notice there are two scratches on the screen

That was a bummer, any way to get those scratches out or is it out?

>>1955567
It's not fucked because of the visible dithering, it's fucked because of non-integer nearest neighbor scaling. Scale it correctly and it will look great.

>>1955575
>Are you using the tv-out tweaks shader?

Yes. 3840x480 with this shader preset:
https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders/blob/master/cgp/tvout%2Binterlacing/tvout%2Binterlacing.cgp

If you're using 240p, then use this one instead:
https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders/blob/master/cgp/tvout/tvout.cgp

>do you have to use integer scaling?

Most cases, I have that enabled. In a few cases, I had to disable it and use a custom vertical viewport.

>and black frame insertion?

Not in those cases, but you do want to use that if you're using 240p at 120hz (or 120hz in general)

>could you give me a break-down of your settings?
3840x480 60hz (or 3840x240 120hz + black frame insertion), using the above shaders. Aspect ratio is set to make the emulator stretch to the full width of the resolution, which is 8.0 (8:1) in the case of 3840x480. For most NTSC console games, that one display mode is all I need to get perfect output to the CRT. For PAL, you'll need to use 576p at 50hz (or 288p at 100hz). Certain arcade games may also need a different display mode, particularly ones that use resolutions and refresh rates that don't match up to NTSC/PAL standards (like R-Type using 256p at 55.018hz)

>>1955585
you could try the toothpaste trick

that works on scratched glasses and CDs

look it up. and make sure you know what material is scratched (is it just the anti-glare coat or the actual glass tube?)

>>1955592
Wong dude, that was image taken with integer-scaling on

Did you view the picture in its full resolution? (not fit to screen)

>>1946289
>>1946305
>>1946295
>>1946325
Hello, I am the Line In anon. I have solved the problem! Surprisingly, a universal remote was not compatible with a Samsung VCR/TV hybrid, probably due to the unique buttons. The ismple solution was to just order the remote for that single type of TV. I got this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-633-109-Remote-Control-for-TV-VCR-Tested-Works/291190256010?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D24936%26meid%3Daa582b607e3949bd9a337f8696530aaa%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D10514%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D301267252841

>>1955615
>that image "was" taken with integer-scaling on

er, typo

but if integer-scaling was off, the scan-line filter would also look "off"

N64 looks good at native resolution on this, though it's not 100% accurate being HLE and all that.

>>1955616
Nice score bro!

is that set composite only?

and, does it play tapes?

>>1946756

WHERE DID YOU GET an L5 for 200 with S&H...?!

I can only find them for 500+

>>1955629

>>1955630
Thanks! Yeah, it's composite only- I got it for free since it was my parents old TV, so I can't complain. It does indeed play VHS tapes! That was actually my problem, it was stuck on "VHS tape" mode. Watching old movies on this will be pretty fun.

>>1955631
I was lucky, the listing had just gone up and I pulled the trigger immediately.

(S+H was $100, so $300 total)

>>1955642

It's the only PVM I want to grab since it accepts up to 1080i (but really 480p matters to me the most).

>>1955641
awesome! i just love it when a plan comes together.

I also just got a new VCR. (jvc 7800) (has s-video out and TBC)

>(super video fun time)

>>1955652
I sure hope you have some super video fun time with your new VCR.

>>1955657
>VCR is still coming in the mail

I'll know if its fun... in seven days.... @_@

(Now I need some good tapes)

>>1955647

Yeah, 480p dream-cast and PlayStation2 are the main reasons I wanted it.

but it should also be a beast at 240p

>since it accepts up to 1080i

aren't 720p and 1080i 16:9 (widescreen) only?

(black bars at the top and bottom of the screen)

>>1955672

I guess so, but I was trying to express it's limits for resolution display, and beasting 240p makes me even happier.

It wasn't just 480p I was concerned with, I just didn't want feed those consoles (6th gen + DC) to my HDTV. It's great that I can use a CRT mainly for 240p devices with my 480p stuff now. I've been looking everywhere and finally found that this PVM could do it. Problem is I have to find one now for a good price... I'm not exactly sure what constitutes a "good price" but I am a former framemeisterfag that just sold it so I've a budget around $460 now.

In light of selling the XRGB anyway, I'm glad I can be a part of the superior CRT squad. I hope y'all niggs accept me with open arms.

>>1955604
>3840x480 60hz (or 3840x240)

But I thought NTSC was really 244p

that's why I play sega genesis games at 640x244 on my PVM

(640x240 looks way off if i use that)

>>1955691
>I hope y'all niggs accept me with open arms.

Do you really want to be "one of us" ?

this is what happened last time a newbie showed up...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C4uTEEOJlM

So my Sony Trinitron CRT "blew up" yesterday. There was a pop as it shut itself off and then a slight burning plastic smell coming from the interior.
Now when I turn it on nothing but a slight ticking sound comes from it.

Toss it or should I see about getting it fixed?

>>1955703

I don't want to be stubborn anymore, I'm ready to enter CRT land (or rather, get back into).

>freaks

I find it funny that she called them freaks, even though she acted completely irrational. The hypocrisy is hilarious. If some faggot kid came up to me and called me a loser for not playing le 1080p xboct juan vidya I would beat his face in, open up his delicious 1080p consoles, take a shit inside of them, place them on his chest and turn them on with the fan facing their face.

>>1955691
a good upscaler and deinterlacer is still a really great thing to have around for 480i content. (mostly ps2 stuff, and maybe a VCR)

I hate the way interlaced video looks, so I've been using an i-Scan HD with my CRT for de-interlacing and upscaling

I've also been experimenting with the Xploder HDTV app for ps2 (works way better then the home-brew GSM app)

Odin Sphere looks amazing in 480p

(way better than playing it on a ps3 with mediocre de-interlacing)

(you can also play games in 1080i as well this way)

>>1955718
>pooping on things and people

this is why they call us freaks!!!

New to CRT, I'm getting two Trinitron 35 inch TVs from a guy on Craigslist for $10 will these be shit I just wanna play N64 games

>>1949079
Whoa, think twice about that, the capacitors in those things can store really high voltages, much more capable of killing you than the ones in PC power supply units, and those can hold a charge even for ages after they've been off.

>>1955731
sometimes you will need aspect ratio correction, or the image will look squished (only happens with some games, pic related)

some monitors and displays can correct this.

but I use the i-Scan HD for this as well. I can stretch the image to whatever size and shape I want. very useful

>>1955749
To be honest, almost any TV you get your hands on will be fine for casual playing, if you're not too concerned with maximum quality. $10 for two TVs is a fucking incredible deal btw, are you sure they aren't made of toothpicks or something?

>>1955753
Yeah, I know its potentially very dangerous.

that's why I'll just take pictures first (and not torch anything)

I know that there is a procedure for eliminating the charger left in the Flyback transformer.

>>1955760

The picture looked fine but I will examine when I get there. Anything I should be concerned about?

>>1955731

>>1955629
>>1955636

Have you tried the 3dfx shader?

its supposed to make it look more like a real N64's video output

>>1952836
This, when I was building my pc I bought the monitor the last and used a CRT monitor in the meantime, shit really looked good, too bad my brother took it, I would be using it as a second monitor right now.

>>1955731
The GSM lags like hell in 1080, so the Xploder HDTV works any better?
My ps2 is connected through ps3 component cables

>>1955806
>Xploder HDTV works any better

hell yes it does. (GSM also Adds lots of glitches and other visual distortions)

I use the Xploder HDTV.elf file

but you could also use a disc based version of it.

I use swap-magic with it so I can play imports and backups if I need to.

most games look better at native 480p/720p than emulated at 1080p

>>1955824
but remember, some games will need "aspect ratio correction"

(its more visible is some games)

>>1955846

>>1955824
>>1955846
I remember there was some codes to fix aspect ratio on the psx scene forums

>>1955863
that's why I just use the 16:9 option on my TV

Or the aspect ratio control on my i-Scan HD.

>>1955753
>Septerra core

rad game bro!

I played it on my KDS trinitron back in 1999 before it died.

>>1955879
they called it an "Avitron" best 17" CRT I ever had.

>>1955731

What are the resolution changes timed at on your upscalar? The reason I gave up the frame was because of the 5-7 second blackouts... I simply couldn't handle it.

>>1955891
>What are the resolution changes timed at on your upscalar

what do you mean? you will have to explain. (I don't have to set any timings)

>because of the 5-7 second blackouts

I've never herd of that going on with the XRGB-mini. are you sure you did not have a defective unit? (did you have latest firmware?)

what was your source from?

>>1955753
>>1955770

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp9owbQUhUc

>>1955796
>>1952836

I thought most of us upgraded to LCD because everything is 16:9 (widescreen now)

do new games even work in 4:3? and if the do is it just letter boxing? or are they cutting the sides of the picture off?

>>1955879
Holy shit, how did you catch that in the short while after the board left in the image that was selected during the time that it wouldn't let me post, requiring me to go submit the reply to that thread again after this one?:
>>1955771

>>1955973
Auto update is quite nice for that.

>>1955973
I use Chan thread watch, (latest off of github)

I see everything!

>>1955891
do you mean refresh rate timing?

>>1952657
>TFW, I got banned for posting that pic of a hot chick making love to a sega DreamCast.

>>1955981
even in euro land the dogs look fucked up

put them down

I'm new to the hardcore CRT scene. I already have one, a Toshiba 20", but which one is the best?

I'm surpsised no one still makes them in small batches for such a dedicated crowd.
>in before "we're too small and also we on /vr/ are the only people on the planet who like crt"

>>1956040
>but which one is the best?

somebody should post that info graphic.

>>1955731
>>1955861

i'm always surprised that vanillaware's stuff never gets ported to pc.

his artwork always looks so good in HD

>>1955992
>>1955935

From my knowledge, retro vidya has dynamic resolution (240p and 480i), 480 being for menus, 240 for gameplay. Silent Hill on PS1 for example had 480i menus, so it had to switch from 240p to 480i. You can even google it, specifically "resolution blackout framemeister."

The thing is... and I'm trying to remember what people said, but it was something like how the tv had to communicate from the game, to the framemeister whenever a resolution change happened, and had to handshake then apply the change or something. With the Framemeister that took 5-7 seconds for me. Most PS1 games were just unplayable, and 480p looked washed out on it. I didn't consider it to be a futureproof device, but before the 64 gen everything looks glorious on it.

>>1956051
yes, that would be great.

>>1956114
hold on, let me test Silent Hill...

>>1955961
I did because muh 1080p led hd blu-ray retina display port ips 2ms input lag true blacks pc master race.

But I think I will ask for my old monitor back to use it and play old shit there.

>do new games even work in 4:3? and if the do is it just letter boxing? or are they cutting the sides of the picture off?

Well I used a 36" trinitron that could do 1080i until last month that I sold it, when playing the latest games on my 360 and ps3 I had a lot of problems with over-scan and difficult to read letters, gta 5 for example looked "squished" in 4:3 but in 16:9 I had a LOT of over-scan, and ps4/xbone doesn't even have rca or component output, it's hdmi or nothing so 4:3 is pretty much dead by now.

Older ps3/360 games looks fine though, on some point developers just stopped caring about people with crt's.

>>1956142

Please do, and get back to me. Just in case, I was using the XRGB-mini Framemeister. I know that the timeouts have less duration on XRGB-2 or 3 but that wasn't enough to make me go the upscalar route again.

>>1956153
Ok, I just tested it out.

on my i-scan HD

switching from game-play to menu in Silent Hill takes about one or one and a half seconds to show.

Not bad at all, (but 5-7 seconds would be unacceptable)

>>1956153
>>1956161

For the most part I would Play PsOne tittles at 240p native resolution on the CRT and not scale them.

But on my 1080p LCD they look great with my 1080p upscaler. I would miss the scan-lines though.

i-scan HD (and the HD+) do a very good job with 240p tittles

its also OK at de-interlacing (better than my LCD can do alone)

but this thing really shines when processing progressive signals.

>>1956161
>>1956181

I've never heard of the i-scan HD... so this thing is better than the framemeister maybe?

>>1956196
is this part of the info graphic?

hell is there a wiki on all this? i want to make sure i'm doing everything optimally.

>>1956196
it's a much older device than the framemeister. but it can still pretty much do the same things ( even scanlines if you add an SLG to it)

it was considered pro-AV grade equipment back in the day. (only available to very rich movie buffs)

it cost about $12,000 when it came out.

I was able to get mine for $100 on eBay

if you can find one in good condition, it's an amazing machine.

(make sure it has the power supply and the remote, buying those separately can be very expensive)

>>1956205
the DVI port can also output over HDMI ( that's how I have it hooked up to my HD monitor)

>>1956205
hiw is this different from a regular receiver?

>>1956202
now up scalars are generally disliked in the CRT threads. (most people don't understand how useful they are)

here's the info graphic I was referring earlier

>>1956215
because it's not a receiver, its specifically designed for video scaling.

the scaling on a receiver usually has way more issues with latency (because they are not designed for video games)

>>1956223
so why would you need a scaler for a crt>

>>1956218
Thanks. Question regarding SCART:

Since no US console I know of has an SCART plug, you'd need to mod a console to use one, right? And since you'd then use a SCART to component adapter for use on American TVs, would the difference even be worth it? I would think that the adapter would just dumb the signal down to component levels.

Though as I type it occurred to me that this would be useful for consoles that can't do component otherwise, since all(?) consoles support RGB.

>>1956205
if your CRT is MultiSync the scaler comes in handy.

for me personally I use it mostly for de-interlacing and scaling things up to 1080p

but it also works great if you just want to hook game systems to a PC monitor

(that way you don't have to emulate)

>>1956225

if your CRT is MultiSync the scaler comes in handy.

for me personally I use it mostly for de-interlacing and scaling things up to 1080p

but it also works great if you just want to hook game systems to a PC monitor

(that way you don't have to emulate)

>>1956229
I don't know too much about start ( somebody else are probably does)

I believe American systems can use SCART (remember that Japanese and European SCART connectors are incompatible so watch out)

you might want to go to that one website dedicated to getting RGB out of game systems (don't know if I can post it without getting banned)

don't really think there's much quality difference between RGB and component

>>1956229
>>1956249

this place should have all the info you need about getting RGB out of your old game systems.

>>1956249
Just based on that picture I'd say Component looks better, though I'm sure there are lots of variables.

>>1956249
>>1956250
Thanks for the tip. Why does this apparently have a reputation/why is linking to it bannable?

>>1956252
is because of the spam/advertisement rule

I never know what sites are okay to post ( besides youtube)

last time I posted a link to a technical blog I got a warning

but that site is very good

>>1956252
>I'd say Component looks better,

I believe the RGB picture has a little too much "red push" from a Trinitron

but if both sets were calibrated properly, RGB and component should be virtually identical. (as long as both sets of cables are quality connections)

>>1956205
if you want world-class video deinterlacing,

later units like the VP50 (or VP50 Pro) are definitely where it's at.

but they aren't nearly as good with 240p signals as the HD or HD+

and the VP50's still go for around $400 in good condition.