/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1900615
people with shitty opinions are just flooding the internet it's nothing new

That's a strange name for a Sega appreciation thread...

>>1900615

Nintendo fans are cunts. News at 11

>>1900632
>>>/v/

>SEGA consoles were poorly made,
But many were. Specially the newer revisions of the Genesis.
Modern sega has been hated for awhile. Mainly due to shit like Sonic 06.
The older sega stuff minus the master system and handhelds still have a lot of love.

Where are you seeing the hate for older Sonic games?

Nintendo innovated. Sega imitated.

>>1900615
Nintendrones and the "epic OC deviantart autism XDXDXD" meme is probably the reason for all the hate they get. Stick by your guns, m8.

>>1900626
It didn't used to be like this, though. Yeah you would have the odd 90's fanboy who says SEGA stinks because it's not what they grew up with, but most people seemed either positive or indifferent towards them. Nowadays though, it seems like everyone hates SEGA, even the old SEGA which is mind-boggling considering how huge they were (at least in the states) back then. It's confusing and often frustrating to deal with people who hold one company to a ridiculous standard, while blindly defending other companies that have pulled the same exact stuff.

>>1900653
As has been said: Nintendo fans are the worst.

Have you been on /v/ lately? For your sake, I fucking hope not.

>>1900653
Not him but I asked before. Who hates old sega? There are very legitimate reasons to hate modern sega.
>>1900657
>>1900652
>>1900632
Please take this shit back to /v/.

>>1900641
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDsz1NFBJw

>>1900661
Cmon guy... That's obvious view bait. And they're idiots.

>>1900615
Because its ok to shitpost on the internet and also the amount of Nintendo fanboys are some what blinded by their nostalgia. You see how stupid some get on youtube but [SPOILER]Who cares[/SPOILER]
We sega fans always get shit because it's apparently fun to give us shit and it's funny how blind people are to how many great games the Genesis had. Also the AVGN fanbase seems vocal too
>SNES did it better
>Genesis had no games other than sonic
>Genesis sounds like farts and graphics looked ugly
>>1900658
Basically the US since they do nothing but release Sonic games to people in the States
>No Phantasy Star Online 2 US release
>No new Yakuza here

I have no fucking idea what you are talking about

Besides Yakuza fans being Yakuza fans

>>1900657
you think ti's nintendo fans?
thats funny

>people who can't appreciate quality no matter from which company

I don't understand.

>>1900615
SEGA console WERE poorly made
That doesn't stop the games from being good

>>1900683
I'm not going to say the Genesis games were shit because there are some very good games. However, some of the best games ever made were on the snes. Just look at the most popular games for the systems. Most of the Nintendo ones are still going strong. Sega has shit like sonic 06. Really no surprise to me that sega is hated in modern times.
Basicly what I'm trying to get at is (at least in the US) you have Nintendo who makes great games and is known for making some of the best. Call it rehashed shit if you hate Nintendo. Then you have SEGA who had made great games and made some of the worst games ever.

But the hate for the old stuff I don't see. If anything I'm seeing a raise in popularity of the Genesis especially.

>>1900686
this, Sega fans have every reason to hate Sega but that's mostly non-/vr/ sentiment, I haven't noticed anything worse than usual on this board.

>suddenly people are saying even the old sonic games were bad

I assume you're referring to Previously Recorded? One channel makes a video and this suddenly translates to OMG EVERYONE IS SHITTING ON CLASSIC SONIC!!!
Sonic games are awesome, but I do agree with some of their points. Just because you can see flaws in a game doesn't mean its a shit game

>>1900715
>SEGA console WERE poorly made
compared to what? bricks?

>>1900719
>However, some of the best games ever made were on the snes. Just look at the most popular games for the systems. Most of the Nintendo ones are still going strong

This is true, but it doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not genesis games are good. All it means is that it's easier for a gamer to pick up some guaranteed good SNES games, since you can always identify the obligatory franchises like mario, zelda, metroid, mega man, etc.

For whatever reason, many genesis games either didn't get sequels or if they got sequels, the series never left the genesis or the newer games are basically unheard of. If a newer gamer says "I think I'll play some genesis games" they'll probably be able to identify the sonic games as good ones, but otherwise they might not be able to figure out what's good, because many of the good games didn't become sequel powerhouses like nintendo games did.

Save this console wars bullshit for /v/. /vr/ doent need to pick sides because we have jobs and buy whatever the fuck we want.

>Has anyone else noticed that SEGA (past and present) seems to be coming under fire lately?
No, not really. At all.

>>1900748
I agree. Same reason Genesis games probably wont reach nes/snes level of crazy on ebay since there isn't that push of popularity. Maybe if sega pumps out some good games in the US. They are long over due.

>>1900760
Yeah, it's both a blessing and a curse. It's great that *most* of the expensive genesis games are actually expensive for legitimate reasons like rarity, rather than just being well known franchises (with exceptions like castlevania bloodlines and contra hard corps).

On the other hand, it's a damn shame most people don't know/remember many of the great genesis games.
Where the fuck is my Streets of Rage, sega?

>>1900719
I can see what you're trying to get across, and I agree. The Genesis lack those long adventure games that SNES had like FF, DQ, and CT. But i guess that is what the SEGA CD was made for to compensate what it had lacked, the RPGs. Most Sega fanboys are much older (slightly) than the SNES gamers so I can see what they don't care either now they have things to get other than shitpost.
> If anything I'm seeing a raise in popularity of the Genesis especially.
Yes things like Generation 16 and other sega based stuff has been getting up there because i guess some people were tired of the biased perspectives of most people.

>>1900615
Not going to say you're wrong because that's your perception but I can't really see where you're coming from.

€A is hated. Biowanker is hated. Shitesda is hated. Microshillings is hated. Nintenyearolds is hated. Sega is barely even there anymore, what's there to hate?

You know, other than that sanic meme that consists of manchildren (wonder if there's a crossover with the Nintendo crowd. hah) drawing pictures of retarded hedgehogs and then complaining sonic fans are retarded because they can't draw straight and whose popularity has always kinda surprised me considering it's Milhouse-tier. And are there even any sonic fans at this point? It's so 15 years ago.

But let's say you're right. Do you really care that much about the opinions of imbeciles? I mean, yeah it's 2014 but >90% of the internet continues to comprise almost entirely of shit.

>>1900615
It's all retroactive justification.

Sega makes shit games now, so all their old games must be shit too. Meanwhile, Nintendo is making good games even now, so all their old games are 600$ vintage rare videogame titles.

There are also realistic reasons too. Sega games have almost always had arcade-centric gameplay, paired up with absolutely ground breaking graphics for the time, and unique gameplay quirks next to them. They age well graphically, are good gameplay wise, but they are all starved in content.

Just look at Daytona USA for example. It's a racing game with 2 cars (each with 2 variants, manual or automatic transmission), and THREE stages. Of which one is nothing but three increasingly steep left curves. And yet it is still the #1 best selling arcade game in the world!

Why?
Because in 1994, a good looking game was Donkey Kong Country or Doom. Daytona had more polygons in 1 car than an entire level in Doom, had like 30 cars onscreen at the same time, was running in a crispy high resolution (512x384 or something, don't remember the exact value), and was running in 60 fps without hiccups. There was just no other game like it at the time. Operators could also link up like 6 machines and you could race head to head with your bros in what was the most realistic racing simulator that existed at the time.

Nowadays, the graphics don't look anything special, and the fact that it has only 3 maps makes it look like a joke compared to any other standard racing game on the market - all of them having dozens if not hundreds of tracks and cars.

Sega was really awesome at being ahead of the time, but that advantage doesn't exist anymore, and gameplay of many of their games is just average or on par with current games.

>>1900779
>Where the fuck is my Streets of Rage, sega?

C&D'd for beating the original.

>>1900715
>SEGA console WERE poorly made

Which ones? The Saturn was friggin indestructible, all the more impressive compared to how complex it was. Meanwhile, I've seen tons of Playstations having huge read error problems back in the 90s already, when they were the top selling machines of the era.

And I've yet to grab a nonworking Megadrive. Most of them just need the dust blown out of the cart slot.

I completely disagree. Just because you're saying there's a rise in sega hate doesn't make it so.

still, I can see why people might not like the genny. its one of the last "old school" consoles, imo. Modern gaming really began with the snes, with its focus on longer adventures rather than arcadey action. It's a lot easier for modern gamers to look back and enjoy the snes, since the "style" is very similar to modern games.

>>1900785
>>1900782
You guys really don't give Sonic 06 enough credit. It's not a bad game. It's one of the worst commercially released games ever made period. The story is laughably bad if you can call it a story. All the characters but sonic, tails, and knuckles look horrible. All the glitches and bugs. All those damn glitches and bugs for everything. Everything about that game is shit.
The worst part is it seems to be used as benchmark for sega now.

>>1900615
I liked SEGA growing up. Loved the Genesis, Saturn, and Dreamcast, but as of today, SEGA.. SEGA is fucking shit. They don't do anything with any of their IPs and the few games they make, they don't even bother to localize outside of JPN.

nintendo viral marketers are everywhere anon

Nothing wrong with classic sega. Modern sega is just... forgettable. Even ignoring the wonky history of moder sonic games, modern sega just doesn't feel like sega. Have they even done anything on modern consoles with their franchises other than sonic? It feels like modern sega is just a forgettable 3rd party publisher for a couple random franchises they don't actually own... with some sonic games on the side.

>>1900658
>Who hates old sega?
From a business standpoint, SEGA is the butt of a lot of jokes, from people saying Sonic is "Poochie" to those who exaggerate the failure of the Saturn and especially Dreamcast. As many mistakes as SEGA made, they never fell quite as hard as Apple with their Pippin, Panasonic, or even Atari.

>>1900793
That was pretty awful. I hope they don't go after Freedom Planet as well.

I think the Hatsune Miku: Project Diva series is probably the closest modern Sega has to feeling like the classic Sega during their Saturn and Dreamcast eras. But at the same time, while they partially develop and publish the games, they don't own the IP. The modern Sonic games are hit or miss, but Colors, Generations, and Lost World were fun games IMHO.

>>1900793
lol

>>1900715
I only agree with this for the Model 2 & 3 Genesis and the Dreamcast, which is fairly cheap to replace but still bothersome

The SMS, Model 1, and Saturn were all solid and aesthetically pleasing to boot

>>1900780
>The Genesis lack those long adventure games that SNES had like FF, DQ, and CT
Phantasy Star II, IV
Shining Force, II
Crusader of Centy
Landstalker
Beyond Oasis
It had its fair share. RPG's were SNES's strength though, as Shmup's were Genesis'

>>1900828
>Modern sega is just... forgettable
>Have they even done anything on modern consoles with their franchises other than sonic?
Yakuza series
Valkyria Chronicles series
Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown
OutRun 2006: Coast 2 Coast
After Burner Climax
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
Panzer Dragoon Orta
GunValkyrie
Jet Set Radio Future
Sonic Generations
Phantasy Star Online 2

>>1900785
>Nintendo is making good games even now,

well I guess when you've been making the same game for going on 30 years you're gonna be good at it

>>1900661

>>1900862
I agree all the way I love Shining Force, Centy, and Landstalker but compared to SNES it's different also warsong and king colossus. But Everything else the Genesis did great in, racing games, Action, platformer, shmups and action games.

>>1900615
I'm a Sega fan, and i don't like Sonic games.Its sad that Sonic is almost all Sega makes nowdays.
I want new Outrun, Shenmue, Streets of Rage, Shinobi(not made by a clueless western studio for handheld crap), Comix Zone, Wonder Boy, Virtua Fighter, Virtual On, Nights, Panzer Dragoon, HD ports with online multiplayer for Scud Race, Daytona 2 and Planet Harriers, Yakuza localisations, Seaman 2 localisation...

Also fuck Dreamcast era Sega IPs, fuck Crazy Taxi, Jet Grind radio, Space Channel 5 and Samba De Amigo.

Also i hate Hatsune Miku...

I was a Sega kid growing up. Dad got a Genesis in 1989 when they came out, so naturally they bought me a Saturn for my 5th birthday when it came out and I wanted a game system. Played the SHIT out of that thing and still have it hooked up to this day. Got the Dreamcast when it came out and loved it until I was forced to get an Xbox in order to play new games. I also got a GameGear in the midst of all that.

While I did own other systems during my young years and had many a fun time with them, Sega hardware will always be my favorite and very near and dear to my heart. Die-hard Sega fanboy for life.

>>1900862
Shmups haven't aged well. The ones people want usually aren't on genesis either. The games you listed also haven't really lasted or the last release was 12 years ago. Or they don't have a presence in the US.

Pre-Sammy Sega was the best.

>>1900648


>>1900615 (OP)
I'm a Sega fan, and i don't like Sonic games. Its sad that Sonic is almost all Sega makes nowdays.

I want new Outrun, Shenmue, Streets of Rage, Shinobi(not made by a clueless western studio for a crappy handheld), Comix Zone, Wonder Boy, Virtua Fighter, Virtual On, Nights, Panzer Dragoon, HD ports with online multiplayer for Scud Race, Daytona 2 and Planet Harriers, Yakuza localisations, Seaman 2 localisation...

Also, fuck Dreamcast era Sega IPs, fuck Crazy Taxi, Jet Grind radio, Space Channel 5 and Samba De Amigo. Also, i hate Hatsune Miku...

>>1900872
>not made by a clueless western studio for handheld crap
come on man, Shinobi 3D wasn't bad.

>>1900882
I don't want to come off as a Nintendo fanboy but there's a difference between inventing something and innovating.

I am a Sega fan and I don't like Sonic.
My favorite Sega franchise is Virtua Fighter. I also love the Gamecube Monkey ball games, and Sega made the best F Zero.

>>1900828
>Have they even done anything on modern consoles with their franchises other than sonic?
Not /vr/ but Super Monkey Ball was a big one for me.

>>1900882
What's wrong with Crazy Taxi and JSR?

>>1900862
Those are like... 15 games for the past 11 years.

Nintendo has 3-4 games per year.

>>1900867
Well yeah, they are releasing the same goddamn Mario/Mario Kart/Mario Party/Smash Bros/Metroid/Pokemon/Zelda crap every year since the 80s/90s. I mean you can honestly compare them to the yearly FIFA or Call of Duty now. Except Zelda, which would be more analogous to GTA.

And that's why people can just sit down with any Nintendo console and expect the same gameplay value. For Sega stuff, they have to (gasp) look up the good games.

>>1900897
That game is a decade old, dude.

>>1900902
They aren't the same game though. Zelda especially tries new things. Stuff like Wind Waker.
Stuff like sports games and CoD are the same damn game every year. Change of clothes and weapons.

>>1900615
The thing is, Sega really has screwed up in more of their history then succeeded. The pre-SMS systems all failed, the Sega Master System succeeded in Europe and Brazil, the genesis was their biggest hit but then they started shooting themselves in the foot by doing add-ons that majority of their install base would not buy. It's hard to sell the 32x and Sega CD when they've been delayed so much that the Sega Saturn is right around the corner. Then the disastrous surprise Saturn launch. When Sega launched a console without any advertisement or bui;d up, and just announced it that it was already on the shelves at an industry event. The complete and abject failure of sega to get its flagship Sonic franchise on the Saturn beyond the terrible Sonic 3D blast.
Then there's the dreamcast/ Sega of American and Sega of Japan weren't exactly friends, and butted heads a lot. They were developing 2 consoles side by side to replace the Dreamcast. The american machine, codenamed Sega Katana was farther along and superior machine in terms of capabilities. Sega of Japan pulled rank, said nope for very disputed reasons but many assume was just a power play to show that they were in charge, went with the Dreamcast. Then dropped it everywhere when it bombed in Japan, despite it's record setting American launch.

I love old sega games. They were a lot more inventive and took a lot more risks with their game design. However, there's a lot to criticize with their business.

there seems to be a lot of Saturn love though?

i think it's cause coolguy Ninty just won the underdog of the decade award

>>1900615
I dont hate sega, they still do alright. but /vr/-related, ive always noticed that most genesis titles were just arcade ports...or just generic platformers. or something like htat

>>1900903
They've been on the Wii and the last one was Banana Blitz on the Vita in 2012.

>>1900661

That is 100% how I feel about Sonic, and I'm a Genesis guy.

Do not agree about Crash though.

>>1900892
>I don't want to come off as a Nintendo fanboy but there's a difference between inventing something and innovating.

Sega innovated in the arcades nonstop, and every odd year in the home market. Nintendo innovated in what way exactly, after the first Mario and Zelda? I mean you could say something like Starfox being polygonal, but Sega had Virtua Racing in the arcades a year before. I think the only innovation they had recently was the Wii motion controller, but Sega had that shit in the Samba de Amigao maraca controllers a generation before (and let's not even bring up the Activator or the cancelled VR helmet).

>>1900780
>>so I can see what they don't care either now they have things to get other than shitpost
Dafuq u say boy?

>>1900902
SEGA is not Nintendo. You can't really compare where they are right now to where they were in the 90's. That's like comparing Atari to Sony or something.

>>1900919
I think Nintendo most important innovation was touch controls on handhelds, I don't think know how much influenced those had on cell phone design, but it definitely happened before the apple things with only no buttons and only touch controls became all the rage (and they are still the most popular thing)

>>1900839
Felix the Cat's head on Mickey's body. Seriously. It was mistaken for a hedgehog and Naoto Oshima just nodded and went with it because he wasn't all that great at drawing. He stated much much later that he's surprised no one at Sega ever noticed and that no one ever tried to sue them for Sonic.

>>1900919
The modern thumbstick, a working camera for 3d games, rumble feedback. Every controller now is still based on a modification of the Super Nintendo controller. The d-pad, that's nintendo too.

>>1900862
>the SMS is aesthetically pleasing

That lopsided hunk of plastic with a flowchart on it and a pause button on the console itself? Aesthetically pleasing?

>>1900937
it looks like its from an 80s sci-fi movie. it rules.

>>1900661
>I don't like this game, therefore its overrated

>>1900902
Remember that you are comparing a mid-size third-party developer to a huge first-party developer. They can't make as many games, especially seeing as they don't have a Zelda or Pokemon equivalent that they can bank on. And really, they shouldn't have to.

If anything I think SEGA is more comparable to Sony in the way they operate. When's the last time you saw a new Ape Escape, Jak and Daxter, or PaRappa game, besides cameos and compilations? It's just their marketing strategy. Remember when SEGA tried to replace Sonic with NiGHTs on the Saturn, just like Naughty Dog later replaced Crash with Jak, and then Uncharted?

I think people continue to compare SEGA to Nintendo not getting that they are comparing apples to oranges. SEGA's entire schtick in the 90's was being different from Nintendo. Isn't that kind of the point?

>>1900937
>Pause button next to Reset button
Who the hell thought that was a good idea?

>>1900937
I always liked it
they really embraced it's odd style and didn't pull any shit. It's got a few technical flaws like the pause button but I still love it

>>1900898
That those franchises get more attention that they deserve? They got numerous HD ports and sequels, and the characters are in all of the "All stars" Sega games, while some other sega franchises rot and fade into complete obscurity. Why is Sega even porting Crazy Taxi 1 when there is Crazy Taxi 3(which btw includes older maps), is beyond me. Its especially redundant on PC(steam) where the games were already available.

They just published a new crazy taxi game for mobile devices.

I know making a proper sequel to some half forgotten franchise (like Shenmue for example) is very expensive and risky, but instead of those redundant HD ports and mobile games they are publishing, Sega should port some of their many games that still remain exclusive to arcades.

>>1900937
yep, it's cool as shit.

>>1900960
>that they deserve
*then

>>1900928
I had touch controlled games on my Palm in 2000.

>>1900932
>a working camera for 3d games,
lol wat

>rumble feedback
PC flight sticks had that earlier.

I give you controllers and the thumbstick, but that's not changing in any way because it peaked evolution with the Dual Shock and all pads are just variations of that (and in the mean time, Nintendo was going off the rails retarded with controller design - see Gamecube). Wii and touchscreens didn't went anywhere either.

>>1900946
>SEGA tried to replace Sonic with NiGHTs on the Saturn, just like Naughty Dog later replaced Crash with Jak, and then Uncharted?
No, because none of that happened. The story of Sonic Xtreme is an infamous failure in Sega's history. They worked their asses off trying to get Sonic on the Saturn, they just couldn't get the game both done and fun.
Naughty Dog didn't own the IP for Crash Bandicoot. that's why they stopped making games staring him.

>>1900876
>Shmups haven't aged well
Advanced Busterhawk Gleylancer
Bio-Hazard Battle
Gaiares
Grind Stormer
M.U.S.H.A. Aleste
Steel Empire
Thunder Force III
Thunder Force IV (Lightening Force)
Are still pretty great. Then there's the Run & Gun's
Alien Soldier
Contra Hard Corps
Gunstar Heroes

>>1900882
>I want new Outrun, Shenmue, Streets of Rage, Shinobi, Comix Zone, Wonder Boy, Virtua Fighter, Virtual On, Nights, Panzer Dragoon
Outrun and VF's last entries are still pretty recent though. I feel like the Yakuza games became the spiritual successor to Shenmue and SoR. We'd prefer new installments but Sega probably feels like they'd be competing with themselves. I'd love new Panzer Dragoon and Shinobi games, however. Make Joe Musashi, Hotsuma, and Hibana selectable please

>>1900902
>Those are like... 15 games for the past 11 years.
It's regrettable but what can you do? They lost a lot of their old talent over time. Hell, most of these oldschool devs also have: Square Enix, Capcom, Konami

>>1900937
>That lopsided hunk of plastic with a flowchart on it and a pause button on the console itself? Aesthetically pleasing?
It's retro-futuristic, man. Looked sexy compared to the NES & Famicom and represents the mid/late 80's style well imo

>>1900928

But touch controls suck.

>>1900932
>The modern thumbstick,

Vectrex, yo.

>>1900976
>lol wat
Go take a look at what console 3D games looked and played like prior to the N64 and Mario 64. They operated on a 2d plain that twisted around but didn't free some. Any attempt at it was god awful. Mario 64 set the bar on how to make a 3D environment game on consoles. Sony released a new controller with analogue sticks and rumble after Nintendo. The original playstation controller lacked both.

>>1900976
>I give you controllers and the thumbstick, but that's not changing in any way because it peaked evolution with the Dual Shock and all pads are just variations of that (and in the mean time, Nintendo was going off the rails retarded with controller design - see Gamecube). Wii and touchscreens didn't went anywhere either.

You moron, the playstation controller for literally just an expanded SNES controller. The playstation started its life as the SNES-CD. Analogue sticks and then rumble didn't get added until after Nintendo introduced them to the console world

>pc flight shit
Yeah, no.

>>1900984
Don't forget that Yuji Naka had an infamous bitchfit about STI using NiGHTs Engine, even when everyone else was cool with it.

>>1900989
No, the vectrex stick controlled different and was intended to be held like a joystick. The thumbstick was made a standard of consoles on the N64.

>>1900986
>Outrun and VF's last entries are still pretty recent though.
Outrun online arcade came out "only" 5 years ago, but don't forget that its a port of an expansion for 11 year old arcade game.

VF5 came out 8 years ago....

>I feel like the Yakuza games became the spiritual successor to Shenmue and SoR.
Ok i see the resemblance with Shenmue, but not with SoR. Dynamite Deka series could be a "spiritual successor" to SoR, but i don't find it nearly as interesting in any aspect.

Xbox is the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast. So much so that early in its conception it was going to be backwards compatible.

>>1900998
>No, the vectrex stick controlled different and was intended to be held like a joystick.

Similar mechanism, it was analog and was meant to be used with your thumb on top, if you chose to use it that way. That's why the dent is on top.

That said, it totally sucked for analog control.

>>1901008
>Similar mechanism, it was analog and was meant to be used with your thumb on top, if you chose to use it that way. That's why the dent is on top.
Vectrex disagrees

>>1901024
Nope, still looks like it was intended to imitate an arcade stick here too

All I seem to see here is anti-Nintendo sentiment by SEGA fanboys with a chip on their shoulders.

>>1900615
Psshhh... nothing personnel kid

>>1901000
I knew the dates would come up. Alright, we are overdue for those series too but I'd prefer new Shinobi and Panzer games if I had to choose

>Dynamite Deka series could be a "spiritual successor" to SoR, but i don't find it nearly as interesting in any aspect
Fair enough. Beat 'em Ups have become a niche genre and most devs just don't see much profit in it. I'd love it we got SoR4 with a Dragon's Crown treatment but the chances of that happening are zero to nil

>>1901002
>Xbox is the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast
I've been thinking on this recently, and while it does make sense, Microsoft just hasn't produced as memorable a stable of series and IPs
Halo
Gears of War
Forza
Crackdown
Fable
are the only ones that immediately come to mind. What other notable titles am I missing?

One thing I applaud them for is supporting a lot of the Japanese and Indie shmups and getting them on Live. Sony dropped the ball on their tighter policy for PSN releases, so Playstation owners missed out on that stuff in Gen7

>>1900919
>Nintendo innovated in what way exactly, after the first Mario and Zelda?
Games?
Super Metriod with the map exploration.
Mario 64 with the 3d and camera controls.

Those are two major innovative titles.

>>1901043
super metroid wasn't innovative you fucking retard. The only reason you think it was because you were never a japanese person in the 80s playing all the free roam metroid style computer games.

You're the reason why people make stupid threads like this.

>>1901046
Super Metroid isn't free roam. It was really the first game to implement going not only right to left but left to right and up and down screens WELL Instead of free roam you had to figure out how to get to certain parts.

>>1901032

>>1900648
>>1900715
>>1900719
>>1900785
>>1900876
>>1900912
>>1900937

>>1901050
and I am telling you it wasn't. Ever heard of maze of galious? You do the exact same thing, wander around dungeons trying to find objects to help you advance. That wasn't even the first game to do that it was just one of the more popular ones. How did it even innovate over the first metroid? It added some new features but it wasn't a ground breaking title. Very good game but it didn't change the industry.

>>1900615
>lately?
Yes. And I also noticed it last year and the year before and so on going back a couple decades.

>>1901059
Ya man that game had all sorts of cool mechanics like the morph ball along with the same style map to explore... Metroid really ripped that shit off.

It had some early cinematics also.
One of the first games to get censored.

>>1901079
how was super metroid censored the US/JP is the exact same rom. Just in a different cart. Also the morphball is just a different type of key to unlock another area, just like bombs in other games.

>>1900719
>However, some of the best games ever made were on the snes

See this is the kind of shit that makes Nintendo fans cunts

Genesis has some of the best games of all time on it too. You Nintendo fags somehow got this strange idea that great games being on other systems is somehow a rarity or aberration and rarely if ever look deep into the libraries to justify such obnoxious claims

>>1901083
>Also the morphball is just a different type of key to unlock another area, just like bombs in other games.
The morphball is not a key. I think we can just stop here if you're going to call morphball just a key.

>>1900785
I respect your differing opinions, however: I sincerely hope you'll be able to comprehend, one day, the great piece of video game history that is Daytona USA. Its playability and aesthetic finesse are still pretty much hard to rival. It never tried to be a simulator. It was supposed to be a great racing arcade game, and it ended up being the best arcade racing game of all time.

>>1901090
It was it just unlocked new areas you were too tall to get into before.

I dunno where this shit about Gen/MD 2 being poor quality comes from. Firstly, they fixed the sound problems for the late 1994 release. Secondly, it always had better composite video quality than the older versions.

But of course, saint SNES was perfect and did nothing wrong...or did it? Did you know that byuu the coder of Higan considers all late SNES consoles to be of such low quality that he calls them clone systems? He says they output video wrong, and they have graphical glitches (!) that the older ones don't have. That shit didn't happen to the Genesis until the Genesis 3 model. Which wasn't even made by Sega.

>>1901101
Ya I'm done. Play the game. You may just enjoy it.

>>1901103
>Ya I'm done.

Translation: LALALALALALLAAL IM NOT LISTENING!

>>1901103
I own it and enjoy it, all I am saying is that it was not the industry changing innovator you thought it was. Even lots of NES games had metroid like gameplay, and tons of MSX games.

>>1901140
Lots of games play like other games. Words of wisdom.

>>1901008
>Similar mechanism, it was analog and was meant to be used with your thumb on top, if you chose to use it that way. That's why the dent is on top.
You shouldn't talk about consoles you've never even seen apparently. The vectrex controller would be completely impractical to be played that way. The button set-up and stick placement are directly meant to emulate an arcade board. The controller was not designed or intended to be held like the modern controller, which was really pioneered by nintendo having a primary standardized control scheme for majority of games.

>>1901165
By control scheme i mean that we're dealing with the same controller for majority of its library. Pre-NES consoles had buttloads of different style joysticks, track wheels, number pads, paddles, and more.

Oh EU forums.

>people are arguing passionately about SNES vs Genesis in 2014
Fuck's sake guys.

I think people are just bitter over Sega not doing much outside of Sonic these days. Though as annoying as it is that they don't branch out much I can kinda understand considering they have had a massive history of really good and unique IPs that sold like shit.

>>1900661
>Trusting AIDS when it comes to video games

I was watching the RLM stream where he played Sonic 2 and it took him like 27 minutes to get past Chemical Plant Zone. Guy obviously doesn't give a shit about video games.

>>1901102
>Firstly, they fixed the sound problems for the late 1994 release.

The problem is that version of the model 2 is incredibly hard to find and most people bought the first release of the model 2 giving it a shit rep.

>>1901276
It's not that hard to find, I'd say. Sega sold a lot of Mega Drive 2s from that time. The problem is that there are just more of the older model.

>>1900683
>No Phantasy Star Online 2 US release
>two years later and all they say is it's "delayed"
Why?

I will never understand why people take video games so seriously or care so much about other people's opinions. The console war arguments are so pathetic.

>>1901336
>I will never understand why people take video games so seriously
Because we like them a lot?

>>1901336
>I will never understand why people take video games so seriously

It's because they are games that we can take them serious

>>1900615
Modern gamers have their heads up their asses. They literally think that every game has to be 15+ hours long, have a controllable camera, TPS controls, photorealistic graphics and run at 60 FPS in order to be playable at all.

Sega games are more arcady. They can be beaten in one sitting, but often require multiple tries. They're based on simpler gameplay concepts and are fun above all else.

While a millennial will sit there and bitch about Sonic 2 not having any depth to it's gameplay and simple mechanics, a /vr/ gamer will just have fun playing with a fun game.
That's the difference. Modern gamers need to rip everything apart, retro gamers just enjoy themselves. That's why gaming is not meant to be a lifestyle. It's not what kids today think it is.

Back in the day, there were "gamers" but they were nerdy people with broken social lives who spent all their free time playing with toys (witch is what games are)

These days, "Gamer" culture has been taken over by people who don't want to play with toys at all. They literally want these things to be their lives. So no game that won't take up a week of their time to beat once, then another few months worth of MP is "unplayable". And any toy-like elements HAVE to be downplayed, so they don't feel like man-children.

So of course older games, especially Sega and Nintendo games, are "shit" by modern "standards". I mean, you wouldn't want to play with a simple TOY now would you!?

>>1901336

I don't know how serious you're thinking we're taking it, but at most it's just banter between people with similar interests. Most people at this stage in the game play both, and just like to "argue" for nostalgia's sake, or just simple fun.

>>1901175
>>1901183

>>1901393
Sega's games are the definition of easy to learn, hard to master.

Daytona USA may seem 'simplistic', but try being a master of it and coming first every time. Not so simplistic now huh?

>>1900615
I think we're seeing the stupidity of the post-Sega generation as they become the predominant demographic on the internet. They likely weren't even born when Genesis was on top. These people grew up with N64 and Playstation. Their first "real" system was a PS2. They managed to miss Sega every step of the way and have been conditioned to think only a handful of companies made influential games. There are the few hipster-minded types who have "discovered" Saturn and helped boost the ebay prices but for the most part your true Sega fan was in college in the mid 90's and by now has way heavier shit to deal with than posting on forums.

>>1901393
>and run at 60 FPS in order to be playable at all.
But most modern games run at 30 fps (on consoles), while old 2D games run at 60 fps.

Besides, i don't think older games are "simpler", sure, they are shorter, but try playing something like SoR2. At first it looks "simple", but when you dig into it playing in Mania you realize it's a lot more technical than you think. Other games like Borderlands or Call of Duty you have to do the same shit for like 8 hours without a real challenge.

>>1901393
>and run at 60 FPS in order to be playable at all.
But most modern games run at 30 fps (on consoles), while old 2D games run at 60 fps.

Besides, i don't think older games are "simpler", sure, they are shorter, but try playing something like SoR2. At first it looks "simple", but when you dig into it playing in Mania you realize it's a lot more technical than you think. Other games like Borderlands or Call of Duty you have to do the same shit for like 8 hours without a real challenge. Try swapping position of guys playing the games i said.

>>1900615
I personally grew up with Sega consoles and then Sony console. When I first played first-party Nintendo games in 2005 or so, my mind was blown. I never played anything of that quality before. I was used to mascot platformers with bad physics and giant characters, and SMW was simply a revelation. I was used to cinematic or text-based storytelling, so Super Metroid was eye-opening. My favourite action/adventure used to be Light Crusader, but then - bam! ALttP and Link's Awakening. Then Mario 64, then Ocarina.

For a couple of months I breathlessly experienced Nintendo games. As an aftermath of this, I stopped being that much of a Sega/Sony fan as I used to be. Mid-2000s Sega output didn't do much to alleviate my new sentiment.

Then I got to experience Sega's arcade games, especially Naomi, but also earlier ones. That, too, was a revelation. My outlook is not simpleminded and polar anymore. But still, although my favourite games are made mostly by Capcom and 90s' Konami, I can't help but feel that Nintendo is the best first-party developer software-wise in history yet, period.

>>1901554
>I was used to cinematic or text-based storytelling, so Super Metroid was eye-opening.
If you grew up with Sony(which had Castlevania SOTN) how exactly was Super Metroid eye opening? Even Sega consoles had similar games .I prefer Wonder Boy 3 to original Metroid for NES.


>2005
>Mario 64
>I never played anything of that quality before.
I feel sorry for you anon.

>>1900749
A voice of reason in a sea of shite. Well said friend.

>>1901050
Whoah shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw49GWtonLk

>>1901601
i was just playing this game

>>1901580
>Sony(which had Castlevania SOTN
SotN is a very bad game. I used to love it dearly it when I was 12, mostly because vampires and kewl protag, but these days I can't take that crap seriously. My main problems with it are insultingly low difficulty levels, bad level design (platforming is awful, enemy placement was apparently done after the level design was finalized and by an entirely different group of people) and barely any meaningful exploration.

>>1901604
>SotN is a very bad game.
Do you really believe this?
The only valid complaint is low difficulty. SOTN isn't about platforming, you can even fly over everything.

>barely any meaningful exploration
What makes exploration meaningful?

>>1900657
>posts console war shitflinging exactly how people on /v/ would
>tells people /v/ is shit
You are the problem.

>>>/v/
Don't come back

>>1900937
I never owned it, but I like it. However, it wouldn't look aesthetically pleasing to people not into old electronics.

Because kids were brainwashed to believe the Dreamcast was shit and the PS2 was great, therefore making Sega bad in their eyes.

Sadly the kind of gamer these kids had become were geared towards the kind of dull games PS2 cranked out and the oldschool-feel, quality games DC had pretty much doomed it.

Gaming started to decay in the mid 90s and the death of the DC was gaming's ultimate demise.

>>1900648
>Sega imitated.
So I'm guessing you weren't alive when arcades were still around

>>1901642
>the kind of dull games PS2 cranked out
>Gaming started to decay in the mid 90s and the death of the DC was gaming's ultimate demise

>>1900882

>>1900882

>>1901642
>Because kids were brainwashed to believe the Dreamcast was shit and the PS2 was great
PS2 had more games, both good and bad. Hardware-wise, PS2 was much more powerful. DVD was and is better than GD-ROM in every way conceivable.

It's only called "brainwashing" when it's a lie. When it's the truth, it's called "educating."

>>1901661
>>1901175
>>1901183

>>1900914
Thats because the SEGA was intended to be the home system that plays Arcade Machine games. That was their business model for a while, and also behind their strange but unique selection of soundchip. They needed one that could at least mock the voice files used in arcades.

>>1901684
In other words
>the Dreamcast was too gamey

>>1901668
Hey, read this, you will love this!
PS2 is not only better then DC, It also has better Sega games then Dreamcast!
Virtua Fighter 4, Outrun 2006, Yakuza 1 and 2, Die Hard Arcade Remake, Nights into Dreams Remake, Shinobi, Nighshade, Super Monkey Ball Deluxe, Sega Rally 2006, Initial D Special Stage, Sega Superstars Tennis, several Shining games, Seaman 2, Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love, Phantasy Star Generation 1and 2, Phantasy Star Universe, Blood Will Tell, House of the Dead 3, Virtua Quest, Virtua Pro Football, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Unleashed, Cyber Troopers Virtual-On: Marz, Fist of the North Star VS fighting game.Sega also ported most of good Sega games for DC which include Virtua Tennis, Crazy Taxi, Space Channel 5, Rez, Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future, F355 Challenge, all 2K sports games, Headhunter, House of the Dead 2, ROOMMANIA 203, Sega Bass Fishing, The King of Route 66.

How does it make you feel?

>>1901726
and ?

>>1901728
And its a proof that ps2 did EVERYTHING. It did everything Dreamcast did well(arcade ports, shmups and 2d fighting).

People that hate it and praise the dreamcast are either clueless or still butthurt.

>>1901736
you are the one who look upset.

>>1901736
It doesn't even have Ikaruga

>>1901736
That's not better a better collection of Sega games than the Dreamcast.

Also, 90% of ports from Dreamcast to PS2 were absolute shit. Lower framerates, downgrade textures. Pure trash on a supposedly more powerful and expensive system.

>>1901738
I am a bit upset because i often see ps2 hate here.

>>1901742
>Somehwere on the Internet, people don't like my favorite machine
aboo aboo

>>1901739
Oh how could i forget it does not have THE ONLY GOOD SHMUP GAME EVER MADE. Yeah, this is all worthless trash....
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/sony/ps2/the-playstation-2-ps2-shmups-library

>>1901742
>Complain about Anti-Sony Sentiment
>Post in Anti-SEGA Sentiment thread
>and act exactly like what you are supposed to hate

>>1901748
PC have the most, and if it doesn't, you can emulate them
check and mate atheist

>>1901612
>What makes exploration meaningful?
Challenge and puzzles. In SotN, you just walk wherever like it's an action game, except you can't really die, and after a while the Castle's finished, unlike a good game where you have to solve puzzles and remember elements. Play something like Super Metroid or Demon's Souls and see.

The only actual element of the action/adventure genre in SotN is the Richter puzzle. The whole game should have been about that kind of gameplay--or else it could have been a straight-up action game with actually challenging fights, no empty hallways etc. Instead, SotN is like Super Metroid for middleschoolers. Which I, as a middleschooler, absolutely loved about it, except I'm not the kind of person to just embrace my nostalgia and throw away the good taste.

>>1901754
>Challenge and puzzles. In SotN, you just walk wherever like it's an action game, except you can't really die, and after a while the Castle's finished, unlike a good game where you have to solve puzzles and remember elements. Play something like Super Metroid or Demon's Souls and see.
Am I being tricked ?

>>1901757
No, you're just shitposting. >>1901668 is your work, too, isn't it.

>>1901752
I was provoked and my post was only half serious! At last i backed my opinion with some facts...

>>1901760
> At last i barked
fixed

>>1901760
>I was only pretending!

>>1901745
You're saying that in a thread entirely about being mad about people talking shit about your favorite company?

>>1901764
Well, i don't really think PS2 has better Sega games then DC(although i enjoy Outrun 2006, Monkey Ball and Yakuza more then any Sega Developed DC game except Shenmue), but its damn good.

>>1901764
Well, i don't really think PS2 has better Sega games then DC(although i enjoy Outrun 2006, Monkey Ball and Yakuza more then any Sega Developed DC game except Shenmue and Virtua Tennis 2), but its damn good.

All these random obscure games and hardware that keeps getting posted to show "innovation" before Sega or Nintendo did it is comical.

>>1901808
Pretty much. Yes it's true that these companies didn't invent everything like some fanboys insist, but in the technology sector it doesn't matter who invented it, but who perfected it.

>>1900632
>>1900657
>>1900652
>>1900683
>>1900826
>>1901087

First off, the anti-Sega sentiments aren't coming from Nintendo fans. There's no rivalry between the two companies any longer, and in fact Nintendo fans are most likely to also be fans of Sega properties due to the cooperation between Sega and Nintendo since the Wii (Sonic in SSB, Mario & Sonic sports games, Sega titles being re-released or remade or rebooted on Nintendo consoles/handhelds, etc.), and also because Nintendo fans nowadays tend to be nostalgic for Nintendo's past successes and it's hard to ignore the contributions of Sega when looking back to retro gaming.

Second, this sort of console wars baiting is better left to /v/. It has no place on /vr/

>>1901809
Or just made it popular. I like both companies far as /vr/ goes. Wont be getting rid of my Genesis or snes.
I'm going to say Nintendo was more innovative and hope for a reply with some really random and obscure shit some nerd spent an hour making an info graph with.

>>1901808
Yeah OOT is the most innovative game, it introduced the world to lock on targeting and everybody copied Nintendo. Some random obscure game called Tomb Rider has nothing to do with it.

>>1900975
*than

>>1901808
Yeah OOT is the most innovative game, it introduced the world to lock on targeting and everybody copied Nintendo. Some random obscure game called Tomb Raider has nothing to do with it

>>1901819
Man the first thing I think about when I think about OoT is that z targeting. Everything else in that game basically comes second. Those were the days. The Legend of Z Targeting.

>>1901819
And yet lock on targeting is often called, even to this day, Z-targeting due to OoT. You can't deny that OoT perfected and then popularized the mechanic.

OP, what you're noticing isn't an anti-SEGA sentiment, but a general cynic state of the modern young western gentleman *tips fedora*.
It's a mix of things, but one of the things that came with the age of the internet and global communication and youtubers and e-fame is the arrogance and cynism (or cuntism) found in many people who think they're smart, or something.
That's why you get youtubers like Egereptor saying OOT or Castlevania IV are bad, or these /tv/-related youtubers saying Sonic 1 is bad, etc.

My opinion? Don't pay them attention, their fame will not last and their opinions will be forgotten, while the games will continue to exist and hopefully be appreciated by upcoming generations (in the form of horrible touch-control emulation, but eh).

I don't think people hate Sega, I mean, Nintendo is pretty loved around here (I've seen a lot of salty teenagers rage on /vr/ because supposedly we're too biased toward Nintendo, igoring the fact we also have a lot of Sega, PC Engine, even old japanese PC threads, but they don't even know about these, so they only focus on the Nintendo-related discussion), and /v/ is being called "Nintendogaf" by many people simply because we're going through Japan Time 2.0, but you still get your daily 24/7 Nintendo hate bashing everywhere n /v/, not so much on /vr/ but we still get the classic stupid console wars like genesis vs snes, ps1 vs n64, etc...

Been an idort all my life, all I can do is laugh at these plebs, what else can I do?

>>1901819
OoT was the first action adventure game to have a lock on mechanic that was "good enough".

Other games may have had it before, but it wasn't good enough. Tomb Raider's certainly wasn't. Mega Man Legends wasn't.

Give the game some credit where it's due.

Guts should I buy Pier Solar,? The webstore says it's available tomorrow.

>>1901846
> Claiming MML was anything other than perfect

>>1901819
Tomb Raider's auto-aim and LoZ's Z-targeting are completely different beasts. If you're gonna go down that road, might as well say Alisia Dragoon invented it.

>>1901859
Or Panzer Dragoon for that matter.

>>1901857
MML2 was more perfect. Because it came after OoT.

>>1901165
>>1901171

I've owned a Vectrex for a while and I still feel the best way to play Scramble is with your thumb on the top of the stick.

The controller was meant to be held just like an NES or Gen pad except for the few games that used all of the buttons like Cosmic Chasm. Then you could set the controller down and use it arcade style (clunky) or you could just git gud at reaching for 1 and 2 with your thumb.

Have YOU ever played a Vectrex?

>>1901878
>The controller was meant to be held just like an NES or Gen pad
Except that all media and the instructions disagree with you.
>>1901024
>>1901031
You're talking out of your ass and are irrefutably incorrect.

>>1900615
I am a straight up Sega racist and the Genesis sounds like hot garbage.

>>1900615
As a kid, I was fortunate enough to own both a Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo. Only until Super Metroid and Final Fantasy VI were released in 1994, did I start to appreciate the SNES.

I freakin' loved the Sega Genesis. I played way more Sonic 2 than A Link to the Past in 1992, and I thought Star Fox failed in comparison to Rocket Knight Adventures in 1993.

Ah, 1993. That was truly the year of Sega.

>>1900615
Some of the old Sonics were great, but even then they weren't always held to the highest standard of quality. Look at the SMS games and Sonic R.
Also, IMO there was always some crippling flaw in their consoles. For me, that's the SMS's painful d-pad, the Genesis's bad d-pad and button layout though the six button fixed that somewhat, as well as its lower power than the SNES, the Game Gear's terrible battery life, and the Saturn's difficulty in programming which led to nogaems. I still like Sega, though. And they certainly did better than Atari did.

>>1900876

Someone forgot about Truxton. Arguably the best shmup of all time.

>>1900615
post-hardware sega sucks. classic sega was awesome, but their games don't hold up like nintendos do.

>>1901812
Nice attempt at deflecting, but if you browsed more threads than your usual Doom/EarthBound general you'd know Nintendo fans or anybody acting in favor of Nintendo are pretty insufferable when arguing about earlier gens they probably didn't even grow up with.

You'll say those are falseflags, or just ignorant fanboys, which is my point anyway. You don't have the right to speak on behalf of all the people which may go the occasional "SMS only has 5 games worth the rest are garbage NES had a much more blablabla" and crap.

>>1900615
It's because SNES is easier to emulate

/thread

>>1900882
I, Robot didn't have a controllable camera. It was fixed at a certain angle. Also, the Intellivision's "d-pad" a) sucked for the most part and b) didn't have the cross shape which is arguably the most important part in making it usable and precise. Oh, and the Intellivision's "shoulder buttons" aren't really that. The way you hold the controller, they're just the primary buttons that you could operate with your thumb. This list is disingenuous and obviously biased.
It is interesting that the Lynx had mode 7 type graphics, though. I had no idea.

>>1900876
>Shmups haven't aged well.

It's the genre that aged the best. Modern shmups aren't all that much different from the classics. Compare this to any other game genre.

Shmups are the one genre that stood the test of time so well, that you just don't divide them by era, they're all treated regardless of age.

>>1901950
>classic sega was awesome, but their games don't hold up like nintendos do.
You're right. They hold up better

>>1901959
>>1900986
>>1901949
All modern shmups are today is bullet hell bullshit.

>>1901964
People have been saying that since the early 90's.

>>1901969
And it's never been more true. Especially when you see people bragging how many bullets are on the screen as why a game is good.

>>1901970
It's not like every game can be Cho Ren Sha mate.

>>1901974
Meanwhile there's new rpg, adventure, and platform games being made that are amazing. Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze to name one.

>>1901976
>new rpg
>amazing

>>1901524
Isn't Sonic 2 30fps?

>>1901976
And I'll name 3 new shmups that are great: Razion, Neo Xyx, Gun Lord (run n gun).

What's your point? Adventure games are being flooded with idie bullshit. Just because 80% of everything sucks, doesn't make the entire genre crap.

>>1900615

I never cared for any Sonic games. I don't like the Genesis games, I don't like the Adventure games.
That said I love the Megadrive and Dreamcast and like the Master System and Saturn, so I wouldn't say I'm anti-sega.

>>1901987
Every classic Sonic is 60fps with occasional drops. Since they're framerate based engines, running at 30 fps would imply running at half the speed.

But what he said is not entirely accurate, sub-60fps games were always a thing, it was the only way you could get complex computing done.

>>1901990
>Razion, Neo Xyx, Gun Lord
Wow man those sure some new titles. At least you didn't bring up Touhou.

>>1901995
At least you've landed a fitting way to sum up your sterile argument.

>>1902000
Don't worry man your precious shmups are fine. No one buys the modern shit because it's a dead genre that only has life in mobile games and fandom.

>>1902004
Don't you be butthurt just because I got trips.

>>1901668
>posts fedora gif
>ROFLMAO xD

>>>/b/

>>1901994
I see, thanks for the info!

>>1901964
all shmups are about patterns, being a bullethell title or not does not change this. you just suck at them.

>>1902043
Bullets per frame is the only way to measure true difficulty ~ Modern shmups

>>1900641
>>1900719
>>1900815
>Sonic 06
>A game from 8 years ago

>>1902067
When you make a game that's labeled as easily top 5 worst games ever made, you don't live it down. Not like sega has been trying to do much better lately.

I know it's not /vr/ but I recently bought Aliens: Infestation for 3€. It's made by Sega, looks great and I can't wait to play it.

>>1902078
They were up until late 2013. Then they decided to do a 180 and greenlight Sonic Boom.

>>1901261
>here he played Sonic 2 and it took him like 27 minutes to get past Chemical Plant Zone.

How? Act 1 is really short, and Act 2's hardest section is going up some slow platforms while water rises.

>>1902108
Technically it's not really a game by SEGA. They just own the license to Alien games, and contracted Wayforward to make it.

I always thought the old Sonic games were shitty as hell, even though I liked them as a kid it was only a weird kind of half-like as I hadn't really got anything else but Sonic 1 and 3 for a long time.

I mean I literally never made a concerted effort to finish either of them and opted to beat altered beast 20+ times instead.

They were just shitty. Imagine if a Mario game came out with the same sort of design as a Sonic game, it would pretty much be universally panned as shit.

>>1902140
>contracted Wayforward to make it.

So it's a boring as shit game with 5 hours of backtracking through item/ability unlocks, with the only redeeming feature being the beautiful sprite work?

>>1902112
I doubt Sonic Boom will be any good but I'll hold judgment till it's out.

>>1902140
Ah, didn't know about that. I just saw their logo on the box and assumed they had made it.

>>1902145
Well, I do love playing Metroid so I don't really mind backtracking that much.

>>1901952
(Not that anon)

I feel like nintendo fans are more likely to like Sega's classics because games of that era had a very arcade feel, much like Nintendo games tend to. The more PC game feel of Playstation and the Xbox is what the new "hardcore" prefers, so if they were to go back they might shit all over the pure arcade nature of Genesis/Dreamcast.

That's my hypothesis anyway.

>>1902142
Don't know what you're talking about. I like Mario too, but I'd rather play 3&K than SMW.

>>1902147
It's a cartoon tie in game that was handed to another studio who are making it some halfassed beatemup instead of a platformer, don't waste your time paying attention to it.

>>1902142
Nintendo can release outright shit games and still get by on reputation. Other M has very positive review scores.

>>1902154
>had a very arcade feel, much like Nintendo games tend to

Heh.

>>1902142
>Imagine if a Mario game came out with the same sort of design as a Sonic game, it would pretty much be universally panned as shit.

What do you mean by this? Sonic 1's design isn't great, and CD is love/hate, but I feel that S2 and 3&K are solid.

>>1902171
He means he hasn't got a clue on what he's talking about and resorts to arguing "feelings", without mentioning anything that rubbed him off the wrong way or even some partially objective criticism at best. Better mention Altered Beast so you know he got a Genesis real early.

>>1900615
>Grew up with Nintendo
>Still like Sega more
>mfw

It's just a fact that Ristar and S3&K are 10X better than anything on the SNES that isn't DKC or Earthbound.

>>1902163
Surely someone had to rate it well. Even so, no one in their right mind calls it a good game these days. I understand your point though, look at all the people who still consider NSMB and the Mario 3D Land/World games so highly.

Looking back at it, Genesis was no different than any other Nintendo console. Aka.

>only good games on it were made by Sega

Looking at my Genesis collection as of late made me realize that there are few games for it.
Hell, even the Dreamcast has more of a robust library compared to the Genesis and Saturn.

Sega died when the dreamcast died.

"Never stop dreaming" - they stopped dreaming.

>>1902210
>only good games on it were made by Sega
Let's not forgot Konami and its offspring Treasure.

... which isn't much, but someone had to say it.

>>1902212

They might have died there, but the fatal blow was struck with the Saturn.

>>1902218
you mean 32X

>>1902206
Come to think of it, the SNES didn't have many unique third party exclusive titles, if any. It had Contra III, which was comparable to Hard Corps. It had Super Castlevania, which was comparable to Bloodlines. The Genesis actually had proper exclusives as well as the better version of multiplats of the time.

>>1902220
Your argument is very weird. You've listed a bunch of exclusives and said that they weren't exclusive, while MegaDrive apparently has exclusives that what, have absolutely no analogs among any other games? What are you even claiming here?

Here are some SNES exclusives that don't have games of comparable quality on the MD: Yoshi's Island, Super Metroid, A Link to the Past, Chrono Trigger.

>>1902227
>Yoshi's Island

That I might have to agree, since Chaotix was wasted potential. But there were several late 1994/1995 platformers which didn't have the impressive graphics but still punched a lot of fun.

>Super Metroid

There's Mega Turrican, only with more linear gameplay.

>A Link to the Past

Soleil.

>Chrono Trigger

Up to debate, I'm going to hold another Anon's opinion on this one since I'm not too knowledgeable with MD RPGs.

>>1902250
If we're talking about 1995 platformers on the Genesis, why Chaotix and not Ristar?

>>1902260
By late platformers I obviously meant Ristar, but I'd set up an opening for a "MUH SUPERFX2" argument if I didn't bring up Chaotix.

>>1902227
>Yoshi's Island
I'm firmly in the camp that Yoshi's Island is liked more for its graphics / presentation than for the actual gameplay.

>>1902301
I think so too. The game looks amazing, but the gameplay itself is kind of mediocre. Yes the eggs were a interesting concept, and the way Yoshi jumps makes you deal with platforming in a different way than usual, but the game isn't as fun as many other platform games.

>>1902309
>>1902301
I like Yoshi for the same reason I like Kirby. I like the characters and their unique mechanics. Helps that for the most part Nintendo has high quality everything when it comes to those games.

>>1902250
>mega turrican is super metroid with more linear gameplay
That's like saying Metroid Prime is Halo with more jumping.

>>1902301
I agree. The only good thing about Yoshi's Island was its aesthetics. Everything else falls flat. Most levels are bland and repetitive. Even though they tried to vary every level, in the end most levels felt the same and were utterly forgettable. Nevermind the individual stages, I don't even recognize the difference of one world with the other worlds. Most of the stages felt small, and I always had to urge to rush through them instead of enjoying each level.

>>1902219
It's actually both

>>1900615
Sega's been shitting on its fans lately. Locking people out of Japanese exclusive shit, killing fan activities with their DMCAs, being a shit in general.

>Suddenly people are saying even the old Sonic games were bad

Now that's a special kind of retarded.

>>1900661
Holy shit these guys are stupid...

>>1901175
>pretty much every region except the US

Japan is not "every region" LOL

>>1901175
jesus, I don't even know where to begin

>>1901949
Oh god I love this game

>>1900794
> the saturn was frigging indestructible
Ive bought 4 saturns since 2002 and not one worked

new sega is just mediocre. They mostly just pick up and publish other developer's stuff rather than making in-house games. Of course there's sega and yakuza and some others, but it's not like the glory days.

I'd kill for a new Streets of Rage. It'd have to fully revel in its oldschool cheesiness, just like FC3 blood dragon does.

>>1903129
stop buying non working systems.

SEGA fanboys just have a victim complex that they still haven't gotten over.

>>1903157

How dare you. After years of rape and victim blaming it's disgusting that patriarchal pigs like you could still be saying that about us.

>>1901042
Please show me these memorable sega IPs that outshine the xbox IPs

>>1903157
>victim complex
that implies the victimhood was only imagined. Sega fanboys really did have to suffer through the 32X, Saturn (implying it was good at the time compared to N64/PS1, at least in america), and the shit sonic games made up until sonic colors broke the cycle.

Let it happen. You get a lot of popular E-Celebs lately who love the Super Nintendo and talk shit about Genesis.

That's good. That's good for Sega fans. Every time these guys do some LP of some game? The price of that game on eBay skyrockets.

The more they badmouth Sega? The lower Sega prices get. This is bad for Nintendo collectors, but very very good for Sega collectors. Embrace it.

I don't really like Sega much beyond the Genesis though. I'm all about the Genesis.

>>1903209
This. It also helps people really interested in the games get away with some really good deals, instead of inflating the market with massive hipsteria.

>>1903209
What? Texas chainsaw massacre wasn't worth shit till AVGN talked shit about. The examples just keep going from there.
I can only imagine genesis games going up in price if some view starved eceleb mentions [insert semi rareish genesis game] is really bad.

>>1903218

You'd think that. But no.

Sega Genesis prices are dirt-cheap. Because certain high profile guys talk about garbage it is while simultaneously praising the SNES.

Most Genesis games have actually gotten way cheaper in the past few years, with several exceptions for the rarest Genesis games like MUSHA.

>>1903209
You know, that's a good point. Most genesis games are surprisingly affordable and I can easily get lots of like 10 excellent games for 20-30 bucks even on ebay.

Part of that is because everyone knows about the SNES franchises because they continue to this day, such as mega man, mario, zelda, metroid, final fantasy, etc. Not as many people know about the great genesis titles.

But thinking about what you said, another big reason is the youtube community hyping up old nintendo games/consoles. Look at stuff like gamegrumps, where they almost exclusively focus on nintendo consoles. Would the cost of genesis games have inflated to equally ridiculous amounts if all the LPers were playing rocket knight adventures and dynamite headdy instead?

>>1903221
Genesis games will probably go up in price. This happens in all collection circles. You have the expensive items get so expensive that they end up driving the price of many other items up. This isn't just Nintendo. You have games like Magical Chase going for $1000s. Unless the market crashes Genesis games will go up in price.

Just going to take time and maybe a bit of renewed interest from the youtube community.

>>1903221
Uh, no. Just like NES, SNES, N64, and other retro consoles, Genesis prices have ballooned in the past couple years. In every situation, the price has roughly doubled.

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/console/sega-genesis?sort-by=name..
The curve looks just like the SNES et al's price curve.

>>1903227
Don't jinx it.

Also, since we're in topic, could you tell me those 10 excellent games I could get away for 20-30 bucks? They must be excellent though, might be the last purchase I do before buying an everdrive. Don't worry if you think I already got some of them, fire away.

>>1903239
I was only making a generalization, but the last lot purchase I made included

x men 2
robocop vs terminator
shinobi 3
ecco 2
mortal kombat 2+3
sonic 3
pitfall: the mayan adventure
SF2 champion edition
eternal champions

The majority of those games are excellent and the only ones I'd consider somewhat "just alright" would be eternal champions and pitfall. But for 30 bucks that's a steal, especially when you see stuff like robocop, shinobi 3, and x men 2 going for like 15 bucks individually.

>>1903289
pitfall is the best dude it contains the full 2600 version you can play by entering a cheat code. Other than that it's just okay yeah.

>>1902135
You can take a secret shortcut that makes Act 2 into a joke,.

>>1902227
>Here are some SNES exclusives that don't have games of comparable quality on the MD: Yoshi's Island, Super Metroid, A Link to the Past, Chrono Trigger.

Yoshi's island is a very boring and slow game, . This is the only NES/SNES "Mario"(it does not play like fucking Mario at all) platformer i like less then MD Sonic games. The biggest quality of that game are the graphics and Comix Zone is certainly just as good in that aspect.

>Chrono Trigger
I have no idea really. I don't play jrpgs, i don't like them i don't know anything about them, except that there are some famous ones on SMD, like Phantasy Star, Shining Force and Lunar series.

>A Link to the Past
There are several games that have similar gameplay(Soleil, Landstalker, Story of Thor and few more) but i don't think they are as good as LTTP(although Story of Thor looks very pretty).

>Super Metroid
Monster World 4 is the best similar game on MD, but yeah i don't consider it to be as good as Super Metroid. There is also Popful Mail(much better version then on SFC), but yeah even if its not a straightforward platformer, it doesn't really play like Super Metroid.

Ok, so now when we got that out of the way and admitted that there are no action-adventure games that are as good as LTTP and Super Metroid(although there are some that are similar in gameplay), why don't you count SNES run'n gun games that have comparable quality to:

Contra Hard Corps( sorry its, better then Contra 3)
Gunstar Heroes
Alien Soldier
Ranger X
Trouble Shooter Vintage
Mega Turrican(better then snes Turrican)

Now how about some real time strategy games like Herzog Zwei and Dune 2?(that btw were more influential then Super Metroid and LTTP, and gave birth to a new genre)

How about an adventure game? Which SNES adventure game is comparable in quality to Snatcher and Secret of Monkey Island?

Anti-sega sentiment comes from people games on modern games. They're just not used to the genesis's style.

SNES was well known for its action/adventure games, RPGs, and laid-back nintendo platformers. The Genesis had a more arcade feel to it, with a focus on shmups and run and guns and stuff like that. Just compare the list of games with battery saves on genesis vs snes and you'll see what I mean.

Genesis shares more in common with the NES while SNES shares more in common with PS1 and other later consoles. It's easier for current gamers to look back and get into SNES games because they're, for the most part, of a comparable style.

>>1902227
>Here are some SNES exclusives that don't have games of comparable quality on the MD: Yoshi's Island, Super Metroid, A Link to the Past, Chrono Trigger.

Yoshi's island is a very boring and slow game, . This is the only NES/SNES "Mario"(it does not play like fucking Mario at all, just like SMB2 wich i dont consider a mario game) platformer i like less then MD Sonic games. The biggest quality of Yoshi's Island are the graphics and Comix Zone is certainly just as good in that aspect.

>Chrono Trigger
I have no idea really. I don't play jrpgs, i don't like them i don't know anything about them, except that there are some famous ones on SMD, like Phantasy Star, Shining Force and Lunar series.

>A Link to the Past
There are several games that have similar gameplay(Soleil, Landstalker, Story of Thor and few more) but i don't think they are as good as LTTP(although Story of Thor looks very pretty).

>Super Metroid
Monster World 4 is the best similar game on MD, but yeah i don't consider it to be as good as Super Metroid. There is also Popful Mail(much better version then on SFC), but yeah even if its not a straightforward platformer, it doesn't really play like Super Metroid.

Ok, so now when we got that out of the way and admitted that there are no action-adventure games that are as good as LTTP and Super Metroid(although there are some that are similar in gameplay), why don't you count SNES run'n gun games that have comparable quality to:

Contra Hard Corps( sorry, its better then Contra 3)
Gunstar Heroes
Alien Soldier
Ranger X
Trouble Shooter Vintage
Mega Turrican(better then snes Turrican)

Now how about some real time strategy games like Herzog Zwei and Dune 2?(that btw were more influential then Super Metroid and LTTP, and gave birth to a new genre)

How about an adventure game? Which SNES adventure game is comparable in quality to Snatcher and Secret of Monkey Island?

>>1903492
Wait are you trying to say Genesis had good adventure games? You know what time period you're talking about right?

>>1902301
I loved Yoshi's Island when I first got to play it, and it was the GBA port of all things. It's not like I didn't think the aesthetics or presentation were charming, but I really enjoyed playing through all the levels, collecting everything, and those new bonus stages.

Honestly, I feel like that with DKC. I just can't get into any of the older games there (DKCR is pretty good, but not /vr/). Maybe it's me being a Sega kid and being far away from trying it until I got into emulation, but that didn't affect me getting into the Mario games.

>>1903501
>Wait are you trying to say Genesis had good adventure games?
It obviously did, COMPARED TO SUPER NINTENDO. And yeah, english version of Snatcher was exclusive, its not like you could play it on PC .

>>1903524
Anything on console during that time was ass. If that is your point for the Genesis being better than SNES is for adventure games then that may be the funniest comment I read on /vr/ this month.

>>1903537
>snatcher was ass
>that may be the funniest comment I read on /vr/ this month
I feel the same about yours

>>1901812
>There's no rivalry between the two companies any longer
This whole board exists because of the massive boom in popularity in retro video games of late. As long as there's still money to made here, they're still rivals.

>>1903543
Ya so much better than Monkey Island or King's Quest. But keep telling me how Genesis had the superior adventure games.

>>1900641
>The older sega stuff minus the master system
And this is how we spot a stupid american

>>1903559
>King's Quest
>SNES
>better than anything

>>1903559

>Ya so much better than Monkey Island or King's Quest.
It is certainly one of the best cyberpunk games ever made, and the best Japanese adventure game west got in that century.
>But keep telling me how Genesis had the superior adventure games.
In the realm of consoles it did. It had great ports of Monkey Island and Wing Commander, few other lesser known but decent adventure games(like Rise of the Dragon), and it had one great exclusive title that is Snatcher. What is the issue here?

>>1903636
Consoleplebs trying to say they had better adventure games. Oh lawdy.

>>1900615

Sega did cut a lot of corners on it's hardware. Sega games are not always as great as Nintendo games were in the past, but Sega games always had a unique style to them that Nintendo never bothered with.

>>1903640
>Consoleplebs trying to say they had better adventure games.
You seem pretty dense. I was not a "console pleb" at the time. I had an Amiga 500(previously i owned C64). Also, playing adventure games on Amiga 500 was not in any way a superior experience, especially when the game came on multiple floppies(which was the case most of the time).

do you even read /vr/? people jerk off over sega all the time here

>>1903704
Kinda sorta, I see much more Nintendo/PC related threads, not that I'm bitching or anything, the bummer goes off when I read too much biased criticism.

>>1903169
>Please show me these memorable sega IPs that outshine the xbox IPs
Thunder Force
Virtua Fighter
Shinobi
Yakuza
Streets of Rage
Panzer Dragoon
Golden Axe
Phantasy Star
Shining Force
Sonic
Jet Set Radio
OutRun
AfterBurner
>less memorable than
Halo
Gears of War
Forza

Please stop

>>1900920
It's ok anon I shitpost too

>>1903716
The only reason xbox is still around is because of Halo. And it's garbage. Didn't Halo break some record for most games sold on a single console or was that one of the CoD?

Most the games you listed are just arcade ports.

>>1903750
>Most the games you listed are just arcade ports.
No, only 4 are "arcade ports", and even those had sequels that were not in arcades.

I don't understand your criticism, do you actually think arcade games are worse then console ones?

>>1903772
No I think they're better and I don't really associate Genesis with them.

If you just randomly asked me to name some IPs that represented sega I'd stop after Sonic, et Grind Radio, and NiGHTS.

>>1901393
>While a millennial will sit there and bitch about Sonic 2 not having any depth to it's gameplay and simple mechanics, a /vr/ gamer will just have fun playing with a fun game.

As a millennial, studies even suggest were self-entitled pampered brats. Of coruse because we are pampered most of the time with hand holding and easy gameplay but seriously Sonic 2? It's ok but Sonic 1 or 3&K are my favorites also i enjoy /vr/ because it wasn't filled with a fucking SJ agenda, hand holding, or MUH Cinematic experience. It was just play the damn game and ENJOY it. I really avoid the modern gamer society because it's not what I remember gaming being like, PLAYING the game and being challenged like real life (somewhat).
>>1901812
Yeah the companies have made amends with one another but some of the fanboys haven't.Seriously you see both sides throwing hissy fits at each over a 20 year old console war and these are mostly grown ups, it's pathetic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDhMitMfkoE
Take these retards, /vr/ cringe worthy material here. I enjoy both but depends what genre it is, Genesis basically everything else minus RPGS
>>1903490
This

>>1903801
>I don't really associate Genesis with them
Why would you? I was comparing IPs between Sega and Microsoft

>If you just randomly asked me to name some IPs that represented sega I'd stop after Sonic, et Grind Radio, and NiGHTS
I think there's more familiarity with Yakuza, Streets of Rage, and Shinobi over JSR and NiGHTS tbh

>>1903831
I don't really play those games so that's why I wouldn't mention them.
I didn't start the Microsoft argument. I just thought it's interesting that you don't think Halo is as big as it is. Gears is big too but I hate the game for very different reasons.

>>1903823
>Take these retards, /vr/ cringe worthy material here.
I don't agree, these guys obviously like both systems.

>>1903823
People who were kids when the Genesis was around ARE millennials.

>>1903858
Depends what you're reading. Wiki says anywhere from 1980-2000s.

>>1903858
well near the end of the millennials* completely forgot the demographic my bad .>>1903867
I assume millennials are kids born in 88-00. It's a guess tho
>>1903841
It looks staged and stupid, youtube shill.

>>1903871
Anyone who grew up in the 90s or 2000s is part of the faggot generation. Yes, that includes me.

>>1903902
Ahh the 00's wasn't THAT bad the first half was new trends and remains of the late 90's 98-99 specifically then the latter was an 80's revival. Yeah there was shit like Reboots like crazy, Bush, Modern gaming, and crap like The Hills but it's was ok. I feel ya tho anon it could of been better but we were only kids so I didn't know better.

>>1903915
*there were reboots and remakes shitting like crazy

>>1903902
>degrading your own generation
And this is why people on /vr/ don't like us.

>>1903646
>Sega did cut a lot of corners on it's hardware
Not any more than Nintendo. SNES CPU anyone?

>>1903926
I was an Apple //gs user.

fyte me

>>1903646
Genesis always sold cheaper than SNES, and it was a more powerful machine overall. Better processor (and better resolution) is actually important, more colors are nice, yeah, but it's not as important.

>>1902227
The genesis did have Platformers, action RPG and turn based rpgs like the game you listed and they are really good, the only difference is that SNES platformers tend to be longer, but that's a matter of preference, longer =/= better.

Now you tell me, did the SNES have something like Dune 2, Herzog Zwei, Ecco 2 or Granada?

>>1903987
Genesis lacked the SNES' advanced graphic effect modes, maximum sprite size, sample-based audio, and audio reverb effects. It had horsepower, higher resolution, and a nice FM synth chip, but that's ALL it had.

>>1902227
The genesis did have Platformers, action RPG and turn based rpgs like the game you listed and they are really good, the only difference is that SNES platformers tend to be longer, but that's a matter of preference, longer =/= better.

Now you tell me, did the SNES have something like Dune 2, Herzog Zwei, Ecco 2, Granada, or Yu Yu Hakusho Makyou Toitsusen? Or a gauntlet-style game?

>>1904015
Was it really worth deleting >>1904008?

>>1904014
>advanced effect modes
You mean Mode 7? it was only useful for racer like F-Zero, Mode 7 can only do scaling in one Background layer, everything that wasn't a racing game or something like Pilot Wings was gimmicky: Castlevania 4, Contra 3, Circus Mystery etc.

>Maximum sprite size
Did it really matter?, none used the maximum sprite size too much, SNES would explode anyways.
See pic related, did the SNES has something big and well animated like this?

>sample-based audio, reverb
It's not like compressed and muffled samples are much better than FM, yeah, they can sound good, but good use of FM is also great.

>>1904014

well given the SNES came out 2 years later I would HOPE it was more powerful

>>1904031
Or this?

>>1904042
>>1904031

Based treasure

>>1904031
>gimmicky
That word is always bandied about like it's an insult. I dismiss any application of that idea when it comes to games since they are all about amusement anyway. Just about any technological progress can be labeled gimmickry until all of a sudden it isn't any more. The technical advances popularized with the SNES were important, and I'm glad we got them.

Don't worry, I had a Genesis as a kid too.

>>1904061

eh I just don't really see what advantages mode 7 really had in the end.

The new perspective for FF6's world map looked cool but functionally it wasn't really all that different from a normal map and parralax scrolling hasn't been a problem for a long time by that point

>>1904061
Mode 7 kind of sucked, though. It was gimmicky and doesn't look good. And it didn't invent anything, arcade games were doing scaling before the SNES came around. For actually good scaling on the SNES, check out Yoshi's Island, which of course uses another chip.

>>1904014
>graphic effect modes

If you knew what to do you could try to replicate them in software, achieving pretty good results, but you also had to bring DMA into the equation.

>maximum sprite size

I think you could fake the size by latching a sprite into another?

>sample-based audio

You had a DAC, that's not saying much but again, if you knew what to do and had enough memory for it you could achieve a continuous sampled PCM stream while still retaining FM sound effects.

>and audio reverb effects

MD1 had the ladder effect which I think gives some cool reverb-like sound on decaying waveforms but yeah, SNES wins this one.

SNES having special graphical chips only makes up for the lack of horsepower, since it's always computing we're talking about. Genesis can go and replicate those effects, or trying to achieve others, only that to do this you probably had to write VRAM while SNES did it on the spot and only really messed with layers. They have their own different strengths but no one obliterates the other. Another thing the SNES had over the Genesis were maximum color count but I imagine having a full fledged 256 color screen would be pretty expensive, since the tiles had to be 8bit, or you had multiple palettes for them. That's roughly the same space I think. And every console could do the mid-scanline palette swap so it's 128 at best for the Genesis and 512 for SNES?

>>1904061

>>1904031 here. I really like Mode 7 when used right, i love F-Zero, but it would be dishonest to say Mode 7 was that important beside the type of games i listed. The difference is that a better processor is not "gimmicky", having more sprites on screen with a better framerate is important for gameplay, having 6 enemies on screen in something like Streets of Rage 2 at a higher resolution with few slowdowns make the difference compared to Final Fight games with 3 enemies on scree and slowdowns. Action games need a good processor, and i like action games.

>>1904069
>If you knew what to do you could try to replicate them in software, achieving pretty good results, but you also had to bring DMA into the equation.
Right, so you weren't doing anything fast. Fullscreen per-pixel effects on the Genesis cap out at 20fps, absolute maximum. VDP transfer rate isn't fast enough to fill the screen any quicker.

>I think you could fake the size by latching a sprite into another?
The Genesis had smaller sprites and less of them.

>if you knew what to do and had enough memory for it you could achieve a continuous sampled PCM stream while still retaining FM sound effects.
You're seriously stretching the sound system at that point - it wasn't designed to do this and it sounds bad if it even works at all.

>>1904083
>The Genesis had smaller sprites and less of them.

>>1904083
>The Genesis had smaller sprites and less of them.
Smaller? debatable. Less? no way, the SNES slowdowns with less sprites on screen.

>You're seriously stretching the sound system at that point - it wasn't designed to do this and it sounds bad if it even works at all.
I think Capcom's lazy SF2 port really gave a bad impression of the genesis PCM. The reason of the poor voices in that game was shitty programming, just see this romhack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZOrpJP7DUw

>>1904067
>And it didn't invent anything
That's why I used the word "popularized."

>>1904071
>it would be dishonest to say Mode 7 was that important beside the type of games i listed
This statement throws those games out off-hand so that we can pretend in the rest of your post that they don't exist. Let's not do that. You said it already, "i love F-Zero." Me too anon.

My whole point in this exchange was that the SFC was designed around completely different philosophies than the MD. Nintendo likely gave zero fucks about what the Genesis could do when creating the SNES, only what could be done with what they themselves were making. Even if we throw out cost-cutting as a rationale (which as customers we can take license to do), they adequately created a platform that was capable in its own right, with unique and attractive features. Many, many people came to agree with that direction, obviously.

>>1904089
Just one more.

>>1904083
>You're seriously stretching the sound system at that point

There was a Sonic 1 hack which used PCM streams as music. Yeah, the ROM was like 4MB and there was no sampling involved, only streaming, but having a separate Z80 doing the work (please tell me it did, I'm not sure) could take some stress out of the constant interrupts while SNES had to slow down a bit? That's just my theory. I ran out of arguments to discuss.

>>1904095
Another PCM example of the genesis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE0HIpiMepU

>>1904095
>>1904109
I just wish Genesis had a 16bit DAC, but they'd have needed to reengineer the OPN2 chip.

I'm trying to think of examples of games where I thought the mode 7 looks good, and really only Super Star Wars comes to mind. 10/10 graphics on that one. I honestly thought mode 7 effects looked ugly even as a kid.

Amusingly, I played the sequel Return of the Jedi recently, for the first time in ages, and noticed that the entire game runs in slow mo. It only plays at normal speed if you are standing still and no enemies are on screen.

The Road Rash devs said that the reason the SNES didn't get a port of the game is because the CPU wasn't fast enough to do the scaling, and Mode 7 was too inflexible to reproduce the 'driving down the highway' effect that they wanted.

>>1901087
>obnoxiously crying because someone mentions nintendo making some of the best games of all time
>posts phantasy star
topkek
Why such a chip on your shoulder

> hes going to post dynamite headdy and vectorman next

segays are pathetic sometimes

>>1904296
It couldn't probably handle the scaling on the rashers either.

>>1904303
>responds to hours old post
>calls anyone pathetic

I haven't really noticed that. I always thought Genesis > NES, but I respect both consoles and companies. In fact, I consider myself a bit of a Sega fanboy, but I own 2 Sega consoles and 4 Nintendo consoles (2 of which are handheld consoles- GBC and 3DS). I love video games in general, and I appreciate things about both companies. But Sega will always have a big place in my heart. I collect a lot of games for the Genesis.

>>1904313
This is a slow board.

>>>/v/

>>1901657
> people you interact with actually bother to save and then post this

>>1901657
>Zelda wasn't the first top down adventure game so it's design couldn't be inspired by real life forest exploration
I'm not following this logic.

>b-but the SNES is way more powerful!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdjt5_cAyzU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkcTtW-qzC0

>>1904320

not that slow

>>1903151
Not worked for more than 3 months I should have said

>>1903157
Fucking this.
the passive aggressiveness/straight up hostility of sega hipsters is why I dont come to this board that much anymore

>>1904303
nice b8 m8 i r8 autist/8

>>1903716
memorable as in iconic ips, not the quality of gameplay
of all of those id say sonic is the only one
1 in 20 people might know virtua fighter or streets of rage

>>1904337
>calls anyone a hipster
>On /vr/

do you know what Irony is?

>>1904313
But I just woke up anon
I have to sleep

>>1904303

>>1903492

>>1904332
Well if someone has problems with replies to posts coming hours (or even days) later, they really don't understand this board.

>>1904303
> dont forget ristar!

>>1904351
We are not all teenagers on here anon
some of us actually grew up with these systems

>>1904313
How is your first day on vr going friend?

>>1903492

I'm not the anon you replied to and actually I haven't read or posted ITT yet. I'm an idort guy and had both Megadrive and SNES back in the day so I'm not biased or interested in console wars.

Just came to comment on YI being slow and boring.... if you thought YI is slow, you need to git gud. Game cane be pretty fekin fast if you know how to get moving. Watch some speedruns of it. Yoshi can be faster than sonic when he gains momentum, all while throwing eggs left and right, up and down.

>>1904407
I dunno dude, he used the B-word when it came to *Yoshi's Island* of all games. I don't think any amount of explanation will go far with him.

>>1904416
>B-word
babby? YI aka babbys first mario game

>git gud
git back to /v/ babby

>>1904434
Every Mario game is for babbys

>>1904436
Japanese smb3 and smb2 are not.

>>1904303
>Vectorman
We aren't that low. It's like bragging about Star Fox.

>>1902135
>How?

That's what I was shouting the whole time he was playing Sonic 2. Up until that point I've never been verbally angry over someone playing video games but he was seriously that fucking bad. It was like watching a three year old trying to play them.

>>1904440
Is there a difference between SMB3 US and JP?

>>1904434
I think he meant boring as the b word

For me the egg mechanic alone shows how YI cant be babbys first mario game

>>1904434

Well, YI literally IS baby mario's first game.

But seriously, Yoshi's Island can be very fast if you know how to play. About if it's boring or not, I think it's not but that's subjective so I don't mind if you find it boring.

>>1904442
thats good to know
But lylat wars/star fox 64 on the other hand....

>>1904445
Yes. When you get hit as a fully powered up mario you get back to small mario right away, unlike in USA and EU versions where you lose the power up, but you remain big.

>>1904451
I agree, Star Fox 64 is a great game. How people like the original over that one is beyond me.

>>1904434
wut. I maxed that game out.

"Wifey like SEGA, I don't play that bitch" - YG

>>1904457
Im with you on that segafriend

>>1904463
Yes, but YG is a nigger who writes shit music and covers himself in dumb tattoos. Somehow I really don't think he's an authority on videogames.

>>1904481
He's not an authority on anything, in fact he has trouble with the authorities that be due to his ill-mannered presence.

>>1904463
"To anyone who knew me better know I chose Saturn first 'cause it's 2-D heaven. Bernie Stolar dropped the ball with the RAM cartridge, X-men Vs. Street fighter could've expanded the market"
-Del

>>1904303
>chip on your shoulder
>calling people "segay" like its 1992 again

Come on. At least call them "Gayga". That at least rhymes.

>>1904484
>Bernie Stolar dropped the ball with the RAM cartridge

He really made me sick with his fraudulent behavior

>>1904083
>Right, so you weren't doing anything fast. Fullscreen per-pixel effects on the Genesis cap out at 20fps, absolute maximum. VDP transfer rate isn't fast enough to fill the screen any quicker.

That only happens if you are trying to generate custom graphics on the fly, eg. vectors and polygons. If you just want to replicate the common stock SNES effects, you can do that with linescroll and rowscroll (rotation, 3d perspectives, etc).

There was that one aftermarket game that even did final fantasy style mode 7 overworld airship cruising.

>>1904083
>The Genesis had smaller sprites and less of them.

Per line. But it had
1) enough CPU power to move all of them, unlike the SNES
2) ability to switch out the palette and sprite table mid scanline and draw even more sprites on a lower area of the screen.

I mean yeah, the audio/video was technically inferior to the SNES, but the machine had so much raw horsepower that both of them could be pushed way above and beyond their theoretical limits.

>>1904484
Nobody gave a shit about 2D games outside of Japan in the late 90s. Bernie Stolar was right.

>>1904521
>Nobody
I did. I stopped buying consoles until 3D stopped looking like pure shit because of it.

>>1900615
Its so easy to hate Sega if you didn't own their consoles. They have fucked themselves and their fans countless times. I can understand the hate. However, I will always have fond memories of 90's Sega. Even though they fucked up a lot they made a fucking ton of amazing games.
When people talk shit about actual good Sega games it just means they have shit taste and need to fuck off. Who gives a fuck what people with shit taste say.

>>1904521
Apparently he did, that song is from 98/99 i think.

>>1904521
What is Starcraft?
What is Diablo 2 (not even the 90s)?

>>1904741
Neither of those games are 2d.

>>1904761
They are both 2d. The graphics are digitized sprites against 2d backdrops. There are no polygons present.

>>1904765
Polygons don't equal 3d and 3d did not start with polygons.

>>1904783

and isometric is not the same as 3d

>>1904791
A world with perspective and free 360 degree movement is not isometric.

>>1904794
>A world with perspective and free 360 degree movement

which diablo doesn't have. you're not moving in three dimensions you're still moving along a flat plane just viewed via a different angle

>>1904801
Every game with a fixed camera is now 2d. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

>>1904809
well it's certainly not fucking "3D" unless you have to wear special glasses

you're both idiots

Diablo 2 has some scaling effects. If that's enough to trick you, I guess the artists did their job. It is an isometric game; no more 3d than a top down game, just at a different angle. None of the graphics are 3d, the game world isn't 3d, and the game isn't viewed in a 3d perspective. No one in 2001, or whenever it was actually finally released claimed it was a 3d game, but everyone enjoyed it because it was awesome. It also was originally released in glorious low-res 640x480.

>>1904809

its not an issue of camera you goon, you're still only ever moving on an XY axis. that's TWO dimensions.

I'm still interested in hearing how Starcraft is a 3d game, though. That one doesn't even using scaling effects.

>>1904816
Just about every rts ever made is 2d to you. They are played on 1 plain with a fixed camera.

Dreamcast > Genesis > Saturn

Though the only thing I'd like to note of worth on the Genesis is the Phantasy Star games, but even then, 2/4 are the only ones worth mentioning, and the nice collection of Treasure games. Otherwise Genesis was pretty pitiful and I even owned one. It has too much variety and it's kind of spread thin in that department.
Hell, even some of their own entries in a franchise aren't even worth mentioning. Streets of Rage 2 craps all over the first and third installment.

Also, Vectorman is fucking shit. It's a boring ass game that I am confused by it's popularity to this day.

>>1904821
Not if they are using Polygons, which are 3d objects. This isn't that hard to grasp. No part of Diablo 2 is 3d. Yes, you can make a "3d game" with 2d objects using perspective. Diablo 2 doesn't either do that, or use polygon graphics.

>>1904829
>a 3d object on a 2d perspective plain = 3d
>a 2d object on a 3d perspective plain = 2d
Cool logic.

>>1904843
Diablo 2 does not take place on a 3d plane.

>>1904848
>perspective

>>1904856
The perspective is called isometric, and was used in dozens of PC games throughout the 90s, as well as in many Genesis and SNES games.

At what point does thing train of conversation have exactly nothing to do with the statement that "people didn't want 2d games anymore". I'm pretty sure that has long passed.

>>1904860
Because D2 is hardly a traditional 2d game if you want to call it 2d at all. I didn't use it as example someone else did.
New 2d games really don't show up much anymore. Maybe on phone games.

>>1904864
D2 uses lots of graphical effects and tricks because it was released in the early 2000s, when graphical expectations were pretty high (it was never considered graphically top tier though. The scaling effects give it a rough look compared to Diablo 1's smoother graphics.). The other example given was Starcraft, however. An even bigger hit than Diablo 2, worldwide, and I'd love to hear about the 3d nature of that game.

And 3d graphics have gotten to the point today where its easier to make a flat polygon than a sprite.

>>1904869
It's an rts. It's expected to be on a 2d plain. It has effects to make it look 3d though.

>>1900785
playing an r360 as a kid was the most exciting thing ever, never got to play fzero-ax though
Sega is awesome fuck the haters.

>>1904481
I'll take the opinion of successful recording artist YG over some guy who uses racial slurs ont he internet

>>1904823
>implying bate knuckle 3 isn't top tier
>implying sor isn't a fun game with great music despiste being a humble 4megabits beat en up.
top pleb.

>>1900615
I didn't give SEGA a fair shake until the Dreamcast (great timing, I know). Since then I've reached back and found many excellent games, most notably for me being the Phantasy Star series.

But I'm sorry, I just don't see what I'm missing in the Sonic series. Maybe I need to give Sonic 3 & Knuckles a spin (har har), but the first two games were very dull to me.