/vr/ - Retro Games

I really love these types of games that are very open with a lot of side-quests.

But there are almost no games that fit that criteria. I'm excited about Pillars Of Eternity, Wasteland 2, and Torment: Tides Of Numenera, but it's hard to find any older games that fit.

Any suggestions?

Might and Magic 2

>>1884590
>party-based

>>1885206
Maybe he meant Ultima as a whole. I can't imagine somebody having Pagan as their favorite.

>>1884543
This game's combat system was fucking excellent.

Why can't they just clone that shit and use it for other games?

>>1884528

>>1884551
The Might and Magic series?

>>1884551
>Any suggestions?
Not even sure what you want exactly.
I assume you've played the main inspirations/predecessors for those kickstarter titles you mentioned (IE games, Wasteland, Planescape: Torment).
Gothic series, Ultima series, Might and Magic series, Fallout, Arcanum, ... all kind of fit "very open with lots of side quests". Not that it's hard to find out about these games so I'm really not sure.

>>1885223
That is a fucking terrible list

>>1885223
Insubstantial garbage posts like this belong on the general video game board. Thanks for your understanding.

Also your taste is really shit.

>>1885230
>>1885234
re-arrenge it then

nothing beats this one for me

>>1885220
no clue. I guess turn-based is dead. dnd 4th edition didn't get a single tb game even though it was as if made for video games.

>>1885246
How about I arrange my cum beautifully on your mom's face? Go back to /v/

Yeah turn-based IS dead.

The general reaction towards any turn based combat is negative.

>>1885612
Not really relevant to this board and also totally wrong and stupid statement. There are still modern successful mainstream titles with TB systems (New XCOM I think would be one example), and also lots of indie games. Recently Divinity: Original Sin was praised everywhere, especially for its TB combat. Roguelikes got continually developed and the whole wargaming/4X sector has always been mostly turn-based. And so on... I don't see a "negative general reaction (?)" to turn-based mechanics.

>>1885246

Re-arrange it?

Anon, it's not that it just needs a little refining, its that its a total wreck. Firstly, I'm fucking doubtful anyone played all of these games through start to finish AND would make a tiered list.

And if they did, why the fuck not include reasons for stuff they'd surely KNOW would raise eyebrows? Like sticking the KOTOR game with the coherent plot below the KOTOR game that was unfinished?

Sure, perhaps after community fixes KOTOR2 is better. But that's more relevent than distinguishing whether something should be bottom or second from bottom tier surely?

Tiered lists without reasons just make for fling-shit-at-anons-with-different-tastes threads.

Hell, where's the notable stuff from the last few years (be it good or over-rated)? The big name stuff you either think is must play or going to sucker people into wasting their time because of hype or marketing? Where's say Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall? Skyrim: Dragonborn?

Where's Fallout 3 and New Vegas - and even if you hate then, what made them junk but had stuff like Two Worlds and Two Worlds 2 included in there?

The list is just madness.

>>1885612
Saying turn-based is dead is like saying survival horror is dead or the Heroes of Might and Magic never existed.

tier lists are so 2012

I'd like to think people can make decisions that aren't based on hearsay but this is 4chan.

>>1885612
>>1885630

If anything, I'd say they're making a comeback due to all the subpar real-time RPGs we've had for years.

>>1885643
>tier lists are so 2012

You're being needless harsh on 2012.

I'm going to try and salvage that list image with ranking stuff I played and what I remember most about it, with a request for recommends on what I'm thinking of playing next.

>>1885223
beyond awful

>>1885612

>in japanese releases we have:
>persona 4 has two animes, two fighting game spin offs, a vita remake, and a rhythm game so obviously it was a failure
>Atlus also releasing and localizing Etrian Odyssy and main SMT series games
>bravely default
>fire emblem awakening


>in western releases we have:
>divinity original sin
>shadowrun returns
>XCOM
>like every single roguelike for the last three years

>I don't like taking turns so taking turns is DEAD

>>1885637
here.

So help me I tried unfucking the list into something honest, informative and not made to derail the thread into shit fling about what tier a game should be in.

Don't like it? Cool. Because you don't have to like it now.

Because now the image isn't some opinions dressed up like an infographic of concensus on games.

No small part of me would have favoured putting in some stuff that only partially qualifies as a WRPG, but for the sake of not giving some vocal spastic reason to derail thread, I only added as few WRPGs as I could, and left out stuff that I'd no plans to play if I'd not already played it too.

Oh, and it has Deus Ex in there too now because I'm a pleb who thinks its more notable to videogame history than Two Worlds 2 or Game of Thrones for 360.

>>1886079
aint nobody got time to read all dat shit

>>1886190

You're telling me in a WRPG thread.

A thread about WRPGs.

Where there's story.

Nobody. has time. To read a few hundred words

Because I don't think you're trying to troll, I think you're actually brain damaged. Is there some charity fundraiser going on for people with your condition? Somewhere I can positively contribute?

Living your live with such a disability can't be easy.

>>1886249
u rayciss cracka

>>1886079
>needing tutorials in Fallout 1 and 2.

Are you serious? I'll answer questions about it if you're actually confused but I can't see what so confusing about it.

I liked Wizardry 1, it's an impressive game for 1981. It's sad that they didn't bother to make a proper sequel until 88.

>>1886079
Umm.. are you sure you're on the right board? The majority of these games are not retro.

If you want to get into retro RPGs I can recommend setting up DosBOX and trying Betrayal at Krondor or Might or Magic: World of Xeen. Both are accessible and "just fun", without complicated mechanics etc.
Or Dungeon Master (either emulated, or one of the awesome source ports/clones like Chaos Strikes Back).
Also Fallout really is not hard to "get into" as well, seriously just read the manual and give it an hour or two. From there you'll be able to enjoy a lot of older stuff.

>>1886302
>setting up DosBOX and trying Betrayal at Krondor or Might or Magic: World of Xeen
how to do this?

>>1886321
1. download the dosbox
2. open the dosbox
3. navigate the dosbox to the vidya's folder
4. type in the name of the .exe or .bat of the vidya
5. enjoy the vidya

>>1886321
The easy way, where you never even need to start DosBOX or do anything with it would be to download and install it, and then creating shortcuts to the games you want to play with this as target:
>"...\dosbox.exe" "...\game.exe"

>>1886302
I like to recommend Albion for beginners.

>>1886398
Yes! Also a fantastic RPG that's easy to get into.

>>1885223
>baldur's gate II in mid tier

This list belongs only one place, and that is a garbage can.

>>1886330
ok I downloaded dosbox from here http://sourceforge.net/projects/dosbox/files/latest/download

how to navigate the dosbox to the vidya's folder?

>>1886483
the easy way is to create a shortcut, then right click it and put in this shit in the "target" box >>1886383

when you click the shortcut it will automatically run a file in dosbox

>>1886483

If the game doesn't require installation you can simply drag it's exe directly to the dosbox shortcut.

>>1885223
Everytime I see this thing I wanna hit my screen. The troll who made would laugh his ass off would he know how often he made me mad with this shit.

>>1886270

Anon, I really am serious. If you didn't play some games first time around they're not especially intuitive, to the point where I'm spending as much effort trying to understand the UI as I am trying to evaluate whether I should be fighting or running like hell from combat.

As for reading manuals to play, I'm up for that, but I'm utterly burnt out from trying and failing to get a game of Shadowrun 5e off the ground. That's 480 pages of rules, not a flight simulator manual but its still going to be a while before I've the resolve to read a lot before I can get to the fun.

Ultimately I'll do it, but I've still things like the Witcher to get through first.

>>1886302
>Umm.. are you sure you're on the right board? The majority of these games are not retro.

I get that stick ME3 is going to be hard to defend as retro. Main reason I ever started playing it was I wanted something that scratched my itch for Elite, and there was slim pickings.

But to me, I'd call the first Deus Ex a retro WRPG unhesitatingly; its sequels either an outright failure to do what first worked or more recently something much more faithful. This creates a problem though because there's nowhere to meaningfully compare Deus Ex with Deus Ex HR (even if /v/ wasn't a cage full of sexually frustrated chimps with internet access; they'd still have a point if they said "DX is retro, take it to VR, you can only discuss DXHR here").

Because of how the rules shake out this is like The Airport but with game discussion. Hell, when /vr/ started there was a period of madness where Dreamcast threads got banned on sight.

>>1886779
>I get that stick ME3 is

... I need sleep. Even I amn't getting what I'm writing. G'night from Europe's other english speaking PAL50 Hz ghetto anons.

>>1885637
Fallout 3 is abysmal

>>1886079
You're really ignorant of WRPGs.You should really play a lot more before you even try to make list of the best.

>>1884528
>Your favorite party-based western RPGs?


BG2 is my favorite Video Game of all time.

>>1887717
Practically everything by Bethesda is crap.

>>1885223

fixed it, you made some typos.

Just picked up Gothic and have gotten past the weird combat learning curve and general fucked control style what am I in for?

>>1887957
A game that looks nice but plays poorly.

>>1885637
>like saying survival horror is dead
It isn't?

>>1887947
>>>/v/

>>1887964
>Looks nice
What? Looks like shit.

>>1885223
Morrowind should be shit tier.

>>1887947
i like that. but gothic + gothic 2 need to be higher

>>1885560

Not so dead I mean there's D:OS

I didn't like it, but plenty of people do

>>1887957

Here's hoping you get farther than me, when I had to go to some forest

It still haunts me, in my darkest dreams taunting and mocking me

Buck Rogers countdown to doomsday.

Party based SSI gold box gameplay (It was AD&D with laser guns. Same satts, armor class, core rules from first edition) plus RPG style turn based ship-to-ship combat.

One of the most under-rated WRPGs and even SSI fans tend to overlook it.

>>1889795

Also the character skills were refreshing. All kind of technical skills on top of combat skills.

>>1889795
How's the Genesis version of the game? I bought it at a yard sale a few weeks ago and haven't gotten around to playing it yet, but I heard it's missing a lot of features from the PC version.

>>1885223
>Witcher 1 High
>Darklands Low
>Skyrim shit
I shiggy doo

>>1887947
Kek

>>1889824

Missing a few character skills were removed but the gameplay feels more streamlined. They also added some nice colorful icons to it to replace text menus.

The first time I played it was on the genesis, and it was a few years later I got aroudn to the dos version.

>>1889842

That's the joke

>bored
>check humble bundle
>download old shit i bought but never installed
>start geneforge 1
>shape army of fire breathing lizards
>find enemy encampment with entrances at the south and east sides
>set up ambush while MC chills out safe near the entrance
>when the lizards all die MC just walks back to shaping pool and makes more lizards

I don't even play old WRPGs very much but this is the shit. Geneforge is going to last me a long while (came with 5 games) but are there other party-based RPGs where I can be a bitchin' thrallomancer?

>>1884528
Paradise Cracked, but it's not retro (2002)

>>1889842
It's a pretty well done troll chart.

A few obvious things in the right place, then when you look closer, it has those...

>>1886079
You might not be good at video games.
>Dying all the time in every Deux Ex game
>fallout is to complicated, I keep dying
>Murderously hard combat
These are all easy games.

>>1885662
Wasteland 2

>>1886548

>The troll who made would laugh his ass off would he know how often he made me mad with this shit.

More like the moron who made it would feel shame if he knew that he was so goddamn dumb that you mistook his stupidity for intentional.

>>1885223

The absolute proof is vanilla NWN above the expansions. There's no subjectivity there. NWN was a self-admitted platform for video game based D&D with a bare bones campaign included. The expansions are actual games.

>>1886079

>Played most of his shit on consoles
>Mistook Deus EX for an FPS despite it saying otherwise on the box
>Can't even figure out how to play Infinity Engine games, gives up
>Played an hour of Bloodlines
>Can't figure out Neverwinter Nights, gives up
>Compares Fable to the Hack'n'slash genre

You might as well have written a 5000 word analysis for a movie you've never seen.

On the bright side, seeing as you like to write about video games despite not playing them you probably have a career at IGN waiting for you when you graduate high school 3 years from now.

>>1884528
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorky_17

if linear strategies with RPG elements count

>that polack voice acting!!!

I'm new to these games and could use some help. Only played KotOR which I did enjoy

Between:
-Icewind Dale
-Baldurs Gate 2
-Planescape T

which has the best music? and which has the least comedy? basically which should I try

really dislike when these games are too comedic (its almost never funny)

good atmosphere / music is a big plus

>>1884528
The Exile series.

>>1891667
Oh this so much. Exile series and Avernum 1-3 are blast. Really hated how they much they changed stuff for the newer avernums..

Avernum 1 was probably my favourite.

>>1886507

This. Or if you want to do it with commands you can do so pretty easily.

Let's say I have BaK located at C:\DOS\betrayal I would enter the following:

>mount c c:\dos\betrayal

>c:

>betrayal (or whatever the name of the game's exe is in that folder)

>>1887942

Which is a shame because I can't think of many other FPRPGs with a huge open worlds to explore. Wish they'd get their shit together, though I did enjoy both Daggerfall and Morrowind somewhat.

Been playing Might and Magic VI recently... Really fun open world game. The combat tends to not be as tight as Clouds of Xeen but I have thoroughly been enjoying it. I recommended the 6-pack on GoG.

>>1891768
I don't like the Avernum remakes in general. Hate fighting with the perspective to navigate and it feels like a lot of stuff is unnecessarily dumbed down/made more tedious.

>>1892030
I may be wrong, but I think Exile came before Avernum. Made by the same company, though

Reminder that the most balanced way of playing BG2 is:

Shadows of Amn (no Throne of Bhall installed)
No overpowered bonus items

Shadows of Amn was fucking GLORIOUS. and then Throne of Bhaal had to come along and ruin it. It's a shame that those who started with Shadows of Amn are the only ones who have played BG2 the way it was meant to be played.

ANyway, the reasons why TOB is utter garbage:

-The TAB key ruins immersion and takes away challenge. RPGs have always had elements of adventure games and a bit of pixel hunting. The TAB key makes it so that you never have to search for anything; furthermore it reveals ALL the secret compartments... In SOA (pure) it feels more immersive, having to actually search for items and clues.

-HLAs: These ruin the game completely. Use Any Item? Seriously? Improved Alacrity? What? Greater Whirlwind? the fuck! Is this Dungeons & Dragons or is it Dynasty Warriors?

-Don't play with Deidre and Joluv. The fact is that the other merchants don't sell their stronger items until AFTER you complete quests for them. The fact that deidre and joluv sell even stronger items without you having to do anything just PROVES that they weren't in the game originally and are game-breaking. Robe of Vecna and that helmet with simulacrum are game-breaking. Without them, the classes are MUCH more balanced.

-In SOA, the classes and kits feel unique. And they can use most of their unique abilities until the end of the game. In TOB, there are exactly THREE types of classes. 1) Those that GWW or IH+CS. 2) Those that Imp.Alacrity and Abidazim repeatedly. 3) Those that use Spike Traps.

TLDR version
1) TAB key over-simplifies game.
2) Bonus items are game-breaking.
3) TOB rids classes of uniqueness. SOA they use their unique abilities for the entire game.
4) HLAs are too arcadey and overpowered. No more strategy is required.

Lastly, Throne of Bhaal is simply put.. boring, repetitive, and arcadey

>>1892131
>Complaining about random shit instead of the fact that TOB has a shit story, lame villain, and super linear, console style format.

I always replay BG2 with TOB installed, and I never bother playing it, because getting past the max level and being a slaughter machine is funny. And yes, I beat the game before TOB was ever released.

>>1892157
Okay m8. You can complain about story, while I'll continue about gameplay.

>>1892163
The gameplay being broken is inherent in the fact that it exceeds the maximum AD&D level.

>>1891924
I started playing it for the first time recently too.

...Am I supposed to be fighting 60 enemies at once?

>>1892169
yes.

>>1892167
true. i think they did a bad job of giving waaay too much experience in soa. even a fetch quest can give tons of xp.

>>1891641

Honestly, Icewind Dale is the least comedic but it's also the worst on the list (though it's still a fantastic game, you've just listed it along two of the best ever made).

I'd recommend Planescape first. I'd also implore you to play through the first Baldur's Gate before the second, it's a lot more rewarding and engaging to carry a character over from the first game.

>>1892118
I'm not sure why you thought I didn't know that. But yes, the Exile games were Spiderweb Software's first games.

>>1892203
How is Icewind Dale 2? I heard that the script is pretty humorous.

i'm not looking for a game to take seriously. a game that pokes fun at itself and doesn't take the plot too seriously, while having fun gameplay is what i'm looking for

>>1892223
Then Icewind Dale is your cup of tea...

>>1885253

Mah nigga. I always followed the light path though.

>>1891641

Planescape Torment is genuinely funny at moments. And Baldur's Gate 2, while funny at times is actually pretty fucking dark.

>>1892131

I'd like to say that the continuation of the Aerie romance in TOB was an absolute pure and brutal insult to my intelligence.

>>1891086
holy shit nigga, i kept seeing this thing in budget bin for years, is it any good?

which Icewind Dale is the best? And assuming it's 2, should you still play 1 first?

>>1891924
my only complaint with it is that the characters all look like fags

>>1892289
dat ending for Viconia tho...

>>1892131
agree with many of your points. but i can't play BG without the TAB key.. simply cannot.

i've finished SOA at least 7 times trying out different classes, doing solo runs, etc.. but i think i completed ToB maybe once

>>1891667
MY NIGGA. I know it barely counts but I just reinstalled the re-remake of Exile.

Anyone here that played Nethergate or Natuk? I remember playing these when i was little shit, are they still any good?

>>1892396
I still like Nethergate, but not that remake of it that makes it all restrict-y and removes options.

>>1892453
Is there any way to acquire the original Nethergate? Spiderweb isn't selling the CDs any more and the demo is just a demo and not shareware that can be unlocked.

>>1892463
i've got it, could upload it for you if you want

>>1892480
That would be swell.

>>1892482
hope you don't mind shitty slav server, couldn't get it to mega for some reason

http://uloz.to/xeog1M87/nethergate-v1-0-2-spiderweb-software-2000-rar

>>1892495
>>1892482
Not him, but here's a Mega mirror if you aren't able to get it.

>>1892509
>>1892482
>>1892495
And I forgot the link.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!fUJSyBDB!UvkWaU4EteLzth1e60vFYA

>>1891880
BaK is somewhat open world and is fantastic.

>>1892360
Play both, but 1 is often considered better.

>>1884536
Thiiiiiis. /k/ommandos have endeared me to the SKS, ordering one ingame for the first time and waiting (ohboy ohboy ohboy) till the morning for it to come is a sweet feel. After 1.13 the gun selection in this game is seriously fappable

>>1892495
Thank you.
Does it matter in which order I play Celts and Romans?

Is there anything wrong with Throne of Bhaal? I have BG2 ready and installed and would like to know if I need / want ToB

>>1892543
Didn't played it for a long time so i'm not sure, i think it doesn't matter much, go for the ones you like the most i'll say.

>>1892545
I think it's bretty gut, as some anon before me said, many high level abilities are pretty overpowered but it's not that bad if you instal Ascension, it makes bosses buncha harder so it isn't total cheese. I think it's worth finishing just to see epilogues for your companions, some of them left me very, very feelsy.

>>1892545
just play it once for the story and ending....

TOB is extremely linear and repetitive. it's no different from diablo. if there was variety in the ways to play it then there'd be nothing wrong with it. but there's practically only 3 ways to play TOB.

casters (with vecna) using improved alacrity then spamming spells

melee using flail of ages +3 (unimproved) and belm. improved haste + critical strike.

thieves using spike traps to kill bosses instantly.

PERSONALLY, i wouldn't recommend even installing TOB. the removal of the original exp cap will make SOA ridiculously easier than it normally is. for instance, as a solo you can reach level 32-35 by the end of SOA (with TOB installed).

simply having TOB instlaled will make the base game much much easier

>>1892580
also, try playing SOA without the bonus items first. without vecna, casters at least have to be somewhat strategic and rely on meatshields a bit. but with vecna, you're can just pew pew every monster in sight

>>1892580
you could upgrade flail to +4, it still doesn't give free action

>>1892131
Huh? I distinctly remember this thing being in vanilla BG2. I haven't replayed for several years now, but I generally dislike ToB for a number of reasons and I only had SoA for a very long time anyway before buying ToB.

>>1892738
Damn scripts fucked up again. I am referring to the TAB key highlighting interactable objects of course.

>>1892349
It is really good, and I've replayed it less than a year ago so it's not just nostalgia.
>complex turn-based combat that's closer to JA2 or Silent Storm than to modern "streamlined" shit like XCOM or Shadowrun Returns
>decent amount of non-linear side quests with minor choices and consequences
>lots of various guns in multiple types, all with different ammo types for different enemies and situations
>one of the few game stories that actually are cyberpunk, even by the most narrow definitions

seen a few people mention Might and Magic 6, love the series (played 2,6,7,8,9) but there's one thing that majorly bugs me and it's the end game.

I know a lot of games get a bit crazy towards the end but it's like a 5 year old took over the last 10% of the game, everything goes super turbo insane.

I love the first 3/4 of the game so i find myself creating a team, playing through until just before end game and then starting over every time.

don't click the below if you haven't finished the games (specifically 6)

I hate the sci-fi element specifically, i know it's personal taste but firing laser guns when you've been using swords and spears all game just seems silly.

>>1892938
It's not too unexpected. Especially for people who have played any of the Wizardry games.

>>1892131
>>1892157

Interesting. I played BG2 many times. I got it when it first released. But I never bought ToB. I didn't have the money at the time, and just kind of forgot about it in later years. When I went back to replay BG2 (as I did many times because I love the game), I never bothered to buy ToB so always felt I was missing the finale to the story.

I have BG2 on GOG as of recently and was planning to go back through it. But y'all are saying ToB isn't even worth playing through and kind of ruins the experience of the main game?

>>1892942

I've also played a couple of the wizardry games and have the same gripe. I know a lot of people probably like it but for me it's just not as enjoyable.

>>1884536
>Fidel need new coat

>>1885560
4e saw lots of use in board games though.

And I do think there's still a market for turn-based RPGs (video games). A niche market, sure, but it's there. Devs just need to find the right price point because obviously they can't expend the usual AAA budget since the market for this type of game just can't sustain it.

>>1892739
It's not in vanilla.

>>1885637
1) KOTOR 2 is still a great game. Yes, unfinished, but it's not broken. The plot IS better than the original as are the cast of characters, and it really does only take some minor fixes from the KOTOR community to make it the superior game to the original.
Both KOTOR games are miles ahead of any of the Mass Effect games.

2) Fallout 3 is total shit. Fuck that abomination. It does not deserve the Fallout name. New Vegas is good, but it's in spite of the flaws of Bethesda's engine (and because the rest of the game was developed by Obsidian).

3) I agree that tiered lists are lame.

>>1892942
Only 6-8.

I recently started replaying BG2 as a cleric. First time with the class, actually. I just hope I didn't fuck up by choosing the Lathander kit.

>>1885223
The only thing this list does right is putting Kingdoms of Amalur so low. Jesus Christ, that was the dullest game I ever played.

>>1893015
I love playing a cleric in Baldur's Gate, that versatility combined with support and getting to wear plate is neat.

I always get disappointed when there's a divine spellcaster in a game and it just ends up being some weenie priest in a robe.

>>1893030
I thought about going multi class Cleric/Ranger, but wasn't sure if I'd get Druid spells. Plus, I didn't want to have to deal with the XP thing.

>>1893045
>but wasn't sure if I'd get Druid spells.
Unless some mods can fix it, you would.
That and stat restrictions granting easy high rolls make it one of the most overpowered combinations. Endgame kensai mage might be more powerful, but you'll have to deal with class switching.

Just finished Arcanum ten minutes ago. Want to get into some more RPGs but I'm not sure which I should go with.

I have Betrayal at Krondor, Fallout 1, Baldur's Gate and Deus Ex ready to go.

>>1892913
>modern "streamlined" shit like XCOM
Yeah, it's streamlined, but for a modern game it's quite good (esp. with EW with the extra content)

anywya, firaxis makes some damn good games. Civ 5 vanilla was below-average, but Civ 5 with all the expansions is the best Civ game ever. and this is coming from a 30 year old who has seen and played 'em all

Jagged Alliance 2

>>1885223
Official bad taste list, perhaps.
Your list is plain awful?

>>1884528
fallout
planescape torment

>>1893073
Dude, you can't go wrong with any of those. Just eeny-meeny-miney-moe dat shit

Okay, serious answer.

Start with Fallout 1- it can be beaten in a single day. Here are a few tips that will really help you out. Get at least 8/9 intelligence and agility (intelligence boosts the amount of skill points you get. Agility gives you free action points (IMPORTANT)). Don't get more than 6/7 strength (you'll get a piece of armor that gives you bonus strength). The SINGLE best weapon is an upgraded energy weapon, but you won't get it for a long time. Get the trait that gives you +1 to all stats.

Then move on to Deus Ex. It's also one of the shorter games on your list. I've only beaten it once several years ago but it was extremely fun.

Betrayal at Krondor next - played this back in middle school when it just came out. Biggest tip I can give you is to right click on rations that you find off enemy corpses to see if the food is spoiled or not.

Finally Baldur's Gate. If you're planning on playing BG1 (without any mods) then the game is a bit slow-paced. Don't expect to find uber equipment, don't expect to be a Conan-type that slices through hordes of enemies. You'll start as a baby. Some tips: Archery gains an extra attack per round and does excellent damage. So the more archers you have the better. Make sure your archers have enough strength for composite long bows. Don't get damage spells for your mages. Focus on incapacitating spells like Sleep, Web, Blindness, etc. Your mages ar for disabling your enemies, NOT killing them (until you get fireball, cloudkill- but even then they're better used for disabling groups of enemies).

I really recommend that you play BG1 without mods at first. Playing BG1 with the BG2 game engine breaks the balance of the game. In BG1 vanilla your character really feels like a baby - you have to struggle to become strong. With BG2, at least half of the kits have something that is overpowered and game-breaking right from the start.

>>1893030

Same. I love that Clerics are actually pretty versatile and are way more interesting than just healbots and buffers. Though I miss 3.x rules where they don't need to memorize healing spells. That makes them even more interesting.

>>1892913
>"streamlined" shit
Is this nigger serious?

>>1893486
he probably never even played it. the strategic aspects are slightly simplified, but the tactical aspects are 10x more complex and immersive than the original game.

>>1893495
I'm talking about XCOM btw.

>>1892580
Throne of Bhaal's experience cap is simply too high. In Shadows, dual-classes were better than multi-class, but with the exp cap at 40 million or something like that in Throne, the multi-classes can get fucking ridiculous. In Shadows, they were infinitely more balanced and comparable to the other pure classes. When it comes to maximizing efficiency there's absolutely no reason to create a pure class in Throne of Bhaal.

>>1889904
Really regret not picking up Geneforge at the last GOG insomnia sale.

>>1885220
ToEE had an okay combat system, for being an Arcanum kludge, but it had some annoying flaws. The worst was that AoE markers weren't exact. There were also displacement errors with movement, hidden creatures, and conjuration spells.

>>1893498
Yeah but multiclass doesn't actually get any good until like super high levels, which probably means like chapter 9 unless you want to sit around grinding.

And I'd say being subpar for 90% of the game then insane for the remaining 10% isn't really all that big a deal, especially since that remaining 10% could easily be soloed by a Jester.

>>1893584
Not quite. With the exp cap removed for SOA they level up extremely quickly, even moreso when going solo. Other characters just slow them down. And besides the fact that they're initially subpar isn't that big of a deal considering htat MANY pure classes don't reach godlike abilities until later as well.

anyway, they receive HLAs at the same point as pure classes. they get MORE hlas than pure and dual classes. furthermore they get a bigger variety of them. instead of warriors getting 10+ g.whirlwinds (or crit strike) or rogues with mass spike traps. Multiclasses can get ALL of them. Unlike duals they get HLAs based on their total exp. not individual exp for their classes.


>especially since that remaining 10% could easily be soloed by a Jester
And? Jesters get UAI and spike traps. they can solo easier than many classes

HLAs are simply inherently broken

>>1889824
I have played and finished both. I prefer the Megadrive version. Better graphics and music, the DOS version only had PC Speaker sound effects.

The DOS version was also first person while the megadrive was top-down which made it much easier to navigate. While the Megadrive version doesn't have all the skills and races they didn't really add anything important in my opinion.

I also find the Megadrive version much more atmospheric, especially the derelict spaceship.

>>1892981
>Fallout 3 is total shit. Fuck that abomination. It does not deserve the Fallout name.
You guys truly believe this?

>>1895289
>You guys

Fallout 3 had a great atmosphere and the engine is pretty good as well. However the story is fucking stupid.

>>1895662

>the engine is pretty good

Yeah, compared to bullshit

>>1895662
>the engine is pretty good as well

>>1895662
you must be joking. even though new vegas is one of my favorite games i can admit the engine is the worst part by far.

>>1893539
ToEE had an excellent combat system.The problem was its bad encounter design.

>>1885223
God i'm tired

>>1885650

I wouldn't say that but it doesn't feel very /vr/ to post a pic that someone else probably made. /vr/ is for talking about games

>>1896460
This x1000. I loved New Vegas and 3 but it was mostly because of the atmosphere and customization, it really had nothing to do with the engine. The combat is okay but it's too easy unless you force yourself not to use VATS.


Also, people who played FO and FO2 who hate 3 are the epitome of "they changed it now it sucks".

>>1892131

>-The TAB key ruins immersion and takes away challenge. RPGs have always had elements of adventure games and a bit of pixel hunting.

Nah that's stupid, pixelhunting is fucking retarded. Especially when most people will find out about where stuff is through other means than actually slowly going over the whole screen. How many have honestly found the ring outside the inn on their own and that's a somewhat obvious place. It could just aswell have been under a stone.

>>1892943

>But y'all are saying ToB isn't even worth playing through

I don't think anyone is saying that, just that it makes the main game too easy and that the ToB part isn't that great. Still worth it to go through once especially if you love SoA

>>1898029
Well, for us older kids, back in the day we actually played the game when it was released. So we didn't have access to pre-released guidebooks or faqs and whatnot. So after discovering the answer to a puzzle or finding a particular hidden item, we actually had a feeling of accomplishment.

Furthermore, some things are just not meant to be easily found. Like the ring you're talking about. That's a helluva item for a level 1. and your example doesn't apply to what we're talking about. BG1 didn't have the tab key.

You should give BG1 a try without that mod that converts it to the BG2 engine. I find it more fun

>>1886398
Problem with Albion is that you can check status on literally everything, and it is hard to item hoard.

>>1885253
my greenskinned kin

>>1896772
ToEE is an interesting experiment on how to make a rule heavy RPG, nothing more. The battle system seems nifty at first, but then it becomes a very messy, buggy system with spotty AoO and a really bad turn time management, in an edition where it's pretty important. In short, a very faithful adaptation of 3rd ed D&D. Also, encounters are at worst pretty samey, since you fight either human, goblinoids or bugbear fighters all the time. It could have mages thrown in, and that would be the kicker.

>>1898751
How is that a problem? There are magic items you have to get identified or that turn out to be cursed.
You can pick up a lot of useless trash but it should wear off after a while.

The main things I'm looking for in with RPGs are

A.) Being very open and having lots of interesting quests or side-quests, and

B.) Having good combat.


Any suggestions besides Baldur's Gate?

>>1898807
Betrayal at Krondor

>>1898807
Temple of Elemental Evil?

>>1898454
Oh please, don't pull this "older kids" shit. I played BG1 and 2 shortly after release (and they were definitely not my first CRPGs) and I was thrilled when the item highlight option was added. Pixel hunting is the fucking nadir of gameplay, down there with QTEs.

>>1898027
>Also, people who played FO and FO2 who hate 3 are the epitome of "they changed it now it sucks".

No, FO3 is hated because of how awful it is.
Plenty of FO 1 and 2 fans like NV.

>>1898807
> Baldur's Gate
> good combat

Anyway about the only CRPGs that fit both would be Divinity: Original Sin,Dark Sun: Shattered Lands and Betrayal at Krondor

>>1898865
ToEE has good combat(well the combat system is great but the encounter design is mediocre at best) it has a lot of bad side quests.Its starting town is infamous for its poor quest design.

>>1898027
Fallout 3 was the equivalent of one of those DTV sequels that had none of the actors, writers or directors from the first one and was only made to cash in on the name. It's hated by a lot of of fans of the original games because it's fucking phony.

Despite still being shackled to the shitty FPS engine, NV gave the impresion that the people behind it understood Fallout.

>>1898861
>>1898865
>>1898887
Aweaome, thanks. I'm playing Original Sin right now with a friend, and that's what has me craving more games like it.

>>1896772
>generic gainsaying versus specific criticism

>>1898771
ToEE clearly wasn't built from the ground up for precision combat. You could say they did the best they could with the engine they had to work with, but even that isn't true as the game was abandoned with major bugs outstanding.

It's a fun game in spite of everything but I feel those who overpraise its combat system and dump all the fault on the encounters are just repeating memes.

>>1898924
Usually when I see praise for ToEE's combat it's in the context of games based on D&D. In which case it probably is the best.

>>1898868
But hte only pixel hunting in BG1 and 2 are for secret items.

How are they secret any more if you can instantly and effortlessly find them?

Perhaps if they made it so that the TAB key doesn't highlight secret compartments then i'd be ok with it

>>1885223
We should actually make an accurate one of these

>>1899135
How about do it like the damn game it's based on and have it work off of character skills and abilities, not slowly dragging a cursor over the screen.

>>1887947
>baldur's gate 1

everywhere else than shit tier

top kek

>>1898924
Seeing the devs' interviews at the time and the results, it's a combination of their shoddy engine they reused from Arcanum, the overbearing complexity of D&D 3rd edition, and a bunch of their decisions. Weapons give out "areas of pain", as I call them, which give a clear cut advantage to reach weapons without any noticeable drawback: I had a thief sneak attacking with them, doing a decent enough job at it while keeping himself out of harm's reach. The inventory and the ingame encyclopedia are a clusterfuck of meaningless information, that forgets to tell you which class the armor you picked up is (a pretty important bit, since classes have restrictions for it). The whole isometric thing is a pain in the ass since they seemed to put everything important behind their pretty pretty prerendered tiles. One encounter was especially frustrating due to that and the nature of the enemies. Doors are the real enemy in the game, due to how they get opened: your character has to stand directly in front of them, or try to get in the middle of them, either way your vision is obscured by the door until is fully open, and that means that you'll get flatfooted for sure by all those bugbears in the room that will gangrape your little character's ass.

>>1901386
Cont.
One solution I heard is to put Invisibility on you to open them safely, go figure.

And then obviously, there is the horde of flaws and quirks that 3rd ed has, like heavy disparity in usefulness between martials and casters, monks being useless, and how multiclassing works and how it encourages min-maxing and rule-lawyering your shit(though since ToEE is a 10 level capped module it really isn't but it's designed to be that, it's much less of a problem here). They also put in slings but no projectiles for them.

And mind you, they could add prestige classes and even grappling, if it wasn't so difficult to implement given that they would have to create a lot of animations for it. I shudder just at the thought.

>>1898937
Personally, my opinion went from that to liking NWN2 more, even if it's RTwP and not retro. On the other hand, having unpatched ToEE as the first foray into D&D was surely a magical experience.

>>1901418
How do you rule lawyer in a computer game?

>>1901432
It may be the improper term, but when caster come into the equation, you can do stuff, silly stuff, like getting both Fragarach and Scathach. And have your fighters do something useful for once.

>>1899174
Get it started then anon

>>1899174
>a list of opinions
>accurate

>>1898924
IRRC they had so little time that most of the encounters in the game had to done by an artist who had finished his work early.

>>1898937
KoTC's is better
>>1901418
You can't be serious NWN2's combat is abysmal even for RTwP.
The games' development was very poorly organised until Sawyer came on board and managed to save it from being a complete train wreck.

>>1901505
ToEE time management in turn is less than stellar, the movement is pretty hard to gauge and that's bad given that the system relies so much around it. IT would gain a lot from having a grid. Its good sides are that it manages to combine real time exploration and turn time combat pretty nicely, fights are short and it's not-so-high level D&D, so no bullshit DBZ shenanigans but also no complete inept characters.

>>1892943
ToB is OK, in a crazy and slightly retarded way. There's still some cool shit in there, though. Watcher's Keep is pretty sick.

>>1898887
>baldurs gate
>not a good combat

>>1885223
put the witcher into mid-low tier and bring hordes of the underdark up to at least mid tier

there, fixed

>>1901774
BG has shit combat like all IE games.
It's a boring, stupid mess. 95% of the game is resolved via Select all + rightclick and wait until everything is dead, the rest ist just buffing and some kiting, I guess that counts as "tactics".
It's like playing the little retarded brother of an RTS

>>1884536
How is this so good? How is it kicking my balls so hard?
Just took over Drassen mine (owning only airport and mine so as to avoid Counterattack), get attacked by 30 enemies anyway.

>>1892938

weren't people used to big twists in videogames at the time?

>>1891510
I really liked that game a few years ago but I can't bear to play it now. Voice acting was godly.

>>1898894
You pretty accurately described my feelings about any Fallout sequel whatsever (yes, including 2).
Fallout 1 is the only good title in the series.

>>1885223

>Divinity 2 shit tier

One of the few games that gets better until the end.

>>1886079
use skyui scrub

Are there any retro wrpgs that allow you to play as anyone other than the generic human/elf/dorf?

>>1905702
Thrikreen, Muls, and Halfgiants in Shattered Lands.

>>1887947
What is that russian one under shit tier? Can't make out the rusky runes.

>>1901871
Do you play with a party full of fighters or what?

No one has posted MORDOR: DEPTH OF DEJENOL
IT'S ONE OF THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME
PLAY THAT SHIT
DUNGEON CRAWL LIKE A BOSS
SO MANY CLASSES
SO MANY RACES

>>1906515
Why not play Demise: Rise of the Ku'Tan? More floors!

>>1886190
Read it very informative, Good work Anon.

>>1901513
Something I haven't seen mentioned about ToEE is the displacement errors that happens all the time. Where you waste a combat action before the game tells you "target too far," or when you try to summon something and there isn't enough room so it puts it in a random place, or when wounded bodies are healed but there's something standing on them so they just stand up in random places. It's really far from a perfect combat system

No love for Wizardry?

To be honest, I only played 8, and it was my first dip in wRPGs. Loved the shit out of it. Really good party creation. That's what I love most.

>>1907685
Wiz 8 greatly changed the system.
Character creation in 1 and 5 means picking a race and alignment and getting a random amount of bonus points to spend on attributes so you can reach your starting class. In 1 it caps at 18 so you can't possibly start as Lord or Ninja while 5 can go higher.
6 and 7 are similar except you get a gender instead of alignment, different stats, have to spend skill points and select which spells you learn.
In all cases you will have to discard many characters because their bonus points are too low.

>>1907685
What kind of animal loves a blobber?

>>1907665
>>1901513
ToEE was released in a very shoddy state.

The Circle of Eight patch/mod goes a long way in fixing the more flagrant errors and taking the game from a C- to an A.

>>1908682
most co8 changes have to do with spells not doing correct damage or things not functioning the way they should according to D&D rules. also adding generally useful stuff like their launcher that lets you set resolutions, video modes, level caps, etc.

none of the issues in those quoted posts are fixed by those patches (those aren't even fixable issues, just consequences of game design choices). the main bugs of the game, random CTDs and save game corruption, aren't fixed either

>>1907723
In the NES version of 2 I once managed to generate enough points to get a ninja. I forget how, it was a combination of rolling the base stats really well and getting a huge number on my extra points

Only problem was the dude was aligned as Good so I just ended up with a jacked out fighter

>>1891768
Oh shit, I thought I was only one who loved older Avernums. Gonna play 3 again soon.

>>1908682
Believe me, that patch barely scratched the surface of that buggy mess. Apart from adding some missing parts of the game and raising the level cap, it doesn't do much more that the old unofficial patches didn't. You can still do the "logicbomb glitch" as I call it, where you can send the game in a freezed state during combat by using an auto-counter weapon against and auto-counter enemy, like when you use Fragarach against a fire frog. It's a pretty easy thing to do, it's easily repeatable, and all the Co8 patch notes can say about it (it's a known issue) is "don't do it". Meaning they can't get the issue straight, since it's so hard coded into that mess.

And in the initial release you couldn't even loot corpses, for a problem with DirectX versions, go figure. Which was also a handy thing, since if you had the patience to see the corpses disappear and then pick up the 2x2 pixels that usually were the loot, you didn't have to divide it with your NPCs, since loot splitting was only done when you opened the corpse inventory, not when you picked up things. Also, you could visit Nulb's brothel, which had a lesbian prostitute relevant to the main story, and old woman, and a sheep.

Does anyone know cool custo portraits for BG2? I got a pack but it had fucking Assassin's Creed pictures in it

>>1898887
>baldurs gate
>not a superior combat

>>1901871
speaking as objectively as you can BG has one of the best combat in rpg games ever made . These thing you wrote are nothing like bg combat unless first battles or if you play on easiest difficulty all the time, even on easiest difficulty its not the case. If you really think bg has a shit combat you have never really bothered fully getting into it and judge game based on you personal failures in it, fuck I hate people like you

>>1909354
>>1909370
I've played... probably more than half of all CRPGs ever made, no exaggeration, and BG's combat just isn't that great. It's not even a great implementation of AD&D rules.

>>1908882
>In the NES version of 2
Knight of Diamonds or Legacy of LLylgamyn? Originally you weren't supposed to create new characters in either of them.

The NES and a few other ports use a modified stat system where the stat maximum depends on the race instead of being fixed at 18. They changed the requirements for the classes as well so that Ninjas became much easier to achieve.

>start Icewind Dale
>create a thief named Dun Blackleaf
>he dies instantly in the first fight

>>1886079
>Saying shit about Fallout's UI
>Saying that DE is overrated

>>1909385
That first fight is a bitch. Actually everything before you level up after that cave.

>>1909402
So level 1 D&D. The best part of the system, really.

>>1909402
Everyone keeps dying on me and I keep reloading and changing scripts.
I think I really should give my cleric a sling.

But I've found it amusing that Blackleaf the thief died first.

>>1885223
I genuinly want to know, why is Neverwinter Nights (1) always rated so low?
It's pretty much my favorite rpg of all time, though i admit it's at least partly nostalgia goggles.

>>1909948
Because the original campaign is incredibly formulaic: hub, four areas of equal difficulty (so the last one or two are significantly easier than the first two or three each chapter.) It's also filled with trivial, annoying trash enemies that give almost no experience or loot - and on the loot point, the randomized containers often end up having things of trivial value even when heavily guarded, trapped and locked. It also has really dull moral choices, where being evil consists of asking or demanding for more money from quest-givers and little else.

>>1909374
Which crpg has the best combat then?

>>1885223

>Fallout and the witcher above anything

jesus christ

>>1910187
>dissing the first two Fallout games

Why?

>>1910206
It's the /v/ culture of one-uppism. Soon we'll be hearing, "Fallout is for casuals, play Wasteland fgt"

>>1909416
I remember once all of my party aside from ranger character died in second fight, so I decided to play solo with him

>mfw I started wrecking shit with him

What the fuck game...?

Is this worth playing? Is it truly awful or does it just have a bad reputation because of the delete system files bug?

>>1910170
Dark Queen of Krynn

>>1910007
The real fun of NWN was in multiplayer and campaign creation. I loved that game and never once played through the default campaign.

>>1910537
I couldn't get into it, the first half dozen or so levels all use an identical and ugly tileset, for all I know it might get better later on. If you do play it, the utility that speeds the game up is a requirement or you'll be waiting over a minute for a horde of zombies to slowly shuffle towards you.

>>1910562
This is true, but I'm not sure how fair it is to weight things based on content that the developers didn't actually make. I'd make a distinction between fix patches, bug fixes, etc. and entirely new content. NWN with just the former is still mediocre, but it's pretty good with custom modules.