/vr/ - Retro Games

oh shit, poor baid thread

Every Final Fantasy game.

So, every 3D game from the 90s -thread?

>>1874035
I actually agree with you. After playing Super Mario Galaxy and its very tight controls, Mario 64 is now almost unplayable. The worst part I think is the camera in Mario 64.

Of course, this being Nintendo's first 3D game, they did a heck of a great job, much better than most 3D games at the time.

>>1874046
Both Zeldas for the N64 have aged very well IMO.

>>1874074
>The worst part I think is the camera in Mario 64.

Mario Galaxy has the only camera in video game history that makes me physically ill when playing it. Mario 64's is a godsend in comparison.

>>1874035
Mario 64 has aged pretty well. The only problem is the camera.

>>1874081
But that's because of the gravity stuff in the games, right? Not the camera's fault.

>>1874035

pic unrelated

>>1874035

Every PS1 game

>>1874112
Rayman hasn't. It is still great. So is Hercules.

>>1874112
Parasite Eve 1 & 2 are just as good now as the day they were released.
Star Ocean: The Second Story still kicks ass.
Final Fantasy IX holds up.
Ridge Racer Type 4, just...Ridge Racer Type 4.

>>1874096
>But that's because of the gravity stuff in the games, right?
Yes

>Not the camera's fault.
If you could either control the camera freely or the camera had a setting which made it behind Mario at all times (Something 64 had) and didn't constantly go upside-down whenever it felt like it on those smaller planets I never would have had a problem. I can't play it for more than a short while before I just start feeling woozy.

On that note it always bugged me how Mario got less and less versatile with each 3D game. Mario 64 gives you so much freedom with Mario's abilities with the punching, sliding, wall jumping, etc. and Mario Sunshine either took a lot of those abilities away or simplified them but added FLUDD which was kind of a neat mechanic, then Galaxy -really- simplifies the mechanics with Mario's only means of attack barring the power ups being either jumping or that goofy spinning mechanic.

Personally, I think Galaxy is the one that hasn't aged well. I remember in 2007 I went nuts for Galaxy just because it was the first legitimate 3D Mario game in five years, ignoring all of the issues I subconsiously had with it, but I find it very difficult to go back to now, and when 2 came out I didn't care for it much. 64 and Sunshine I have no problem going back to and beating, however. 64 definitely has issues. I don't think the later levels are all that good, but I've never had issues with controlling it or the camera.

>>1874112
Except for all of them.
>Abe's Oddysee
>Rayman
>MediEvil series
>Jet Moto series (Personal Preference but its still good)
>Doom PSX
>Crash Bandicoot series
>Spyro series
>Worms World Party
>Pajama Sam series
>Hot Shots Golf
Hell, I'd even go so far as to say NFL Xtreme is still worth playing today.

Your favorite game

>>1874128
Huh. Galaxy 2 is my favourite Mario game of all time. Up until that point, Super Mario World was.

>>1874112
You are wrong, with the exception of fucking Tomb Raider.

>>1874138

>>1874035
your mom

>>1874138

>>1874138

>>1874138

>>1874138
>implying my favorite game is retro

>>1874081
Both are pretty shitty, but Mario Galaxy 1+2 definitely had way too many parts (what feels like 90% of the game) where the game said "NO, FUCK YOU, YOU'RE GOING TO USE THIS PARTICULAR CAMERA ANGLE AND YOU'RE GONNA LIKE IT"

There were plenty of times I've missed jumps in the galaxy games just because the camera was semi-fixed in a zoomed out side view that didn't allow you to get a sense of depth. I really wish they allowed you to use the classic controller for galaxy, because IMO sunshine fixed most of the camera issues from 64 just fine.

>>1874324

>your favorite game wasn't released today

It's already dated.

>>1874336
checkmate

>aged
Can this be an auto-ban word already?

>>1874401
Can you stop having autism?

There is one answer for both questions.

Doom. It was cool at the time, but we have Call of Duty now! Why bother?

>>1874625

>>1874134
>no ape escape
you almost had a good list

Together with the Dragon Ball games, it formed a total package that nobody likes to look at.

>>1874074
>After
>I changed so the game aged.

>>1874664
Standards change. that's the entire point of this thread

Everything except games I like.

>>1874620
Can we stop the misuse of the word autism? Can we all just go ahead and start saying "Can you stop doing things I don't like?"

>>1874035
>games that have aged badly.

This implies to me that if a game "aged poorly", that it must have never been that great to begin with. I have liked nearly every old game I could think of going back to it after awhile.

I think this aged poorly buzzword is becoming overused as an "acceptable" excuse to criticize older games without necessarily offering genuine criticism.

>>1874923
asspie detected

>s-s-stop making fun of me guys ;_;

What's with the influx of shitty /v/ tier bait threads lately?

>>1874952

the same that has been up with them for months and months. i dont understand why people ask this question as if they really, honestly think that just now their board is filled with shitty tryhards

>>1874636
Never said it was a definitive list! It's just what I could think of off the top of my head.

>>1874957
I think a lot of it is from the same person.

>>1874952
people with shit lives that have to bring down everything to their level. nb

>>1874952
The thing is that on this board occasionally an obviously /v/-tier thread will inspire actual discussion. The /v/tards will try to break it up but usually good discussion comes due to the good board synergy thing we got going on.

>>1874968
>discussion
Every time I try to discuss how SM64 is really a bad game, /vr/ descends into name calling and shitty meme posting.

Discussion, my ass.

>>1874982
Well... to be fair I don't think Mario 64 is a bad game. It's got a lot of good design elements in it to back itself up. It's the only N64 game I will actively defend. I grew up with a PSX.

If you want a Mario 64 discussion, we can discuss Mario.

You know what game is hard to go back to and play? Goldeneye. Those controls are terrible after years of playing FPS's on a PC.

>>1874982
>why do people get mad when i troll?!?!

>>>/b/
>>>/v/

Go.

>>1874667
>They didn't predict how my tastes would change
>And make a game to fit my personal tastes as well as those of my future self
>The game didn't age well

I got an idea.

How about every time we see a shitty troll thread/post from one of these losers...

We don't respond!

Imagine that fucking concept. But no, it's too hard. You would rather see our once decent board descend further into shit. Motherfuckers.

nb

>>1875068
>don't respond
>responds

>>1875046
And there it is. Right there.

Name calling and crying by underage kids that can't intelligently discuss games that they have misplaced nostalgia for.

It's genuinely pathetic. Is this how you're going to be your whole life? Crying and calling people names when they disagree with you?

If so, your life is going to suck.

>>1875034
There are a few really good elements in it, I have to admit. I am just horribly disappointed that those elements had to be stuck inside a game with such bad gameplay decisions. There were tales of how the game was supposed to be sort of like what NSMB became, and I think the problems were really because of that.

>>1875091
i don't think anybody's life sucks as much as yours, friend. youre still a winner in that respect.

>>1875097
>wanting to discuss rationally
>trolling

>crying and calling people names
>not trolling

Come on /vr/

>>1875101
>thinking youre the smartest person around

come on faggot

>>1875105
There we go again.

More personal attacks and absolutely NO discussion. I'd love to discuss it with you but you seem to not be interested. Maybe you have no arguments.

>>1875096
There are good things and there are bad things, but that's true about every game. I'll admit the level design can be lackluster and things often look disastrously bland when left as flat colors.

Perhaps my favorite thing about Mario 64 is that it's just strictly _fun_ to play. Mario games have almost primarily been about fun acrobatics, and Mario 64 was a chance to shine in this aspect. He was given a whole slew of different ways to move through the level that allowed your fingers to fly across the controller and, subsequently, through the map. Controlling Mario feels like driving a fucking omniwheeled battlebot through a trap-laden obstacle course. It feels fluid and good. Where a 3D Mario theme just didn't work, Mario was given an option to deal with it. Jumping is hard in 3D space without any sort of depth perception? Give him a punch! Problem solved. (Note that there aren't things like fire flowers in SM64. Aiming those is kind of a bitch in 3D. Just look at bombs in Zelda.)

To be fair, I don't quite like the new 3D Mario games for 3DS and WiiU because Mario has the kind of stiff movement feeling he did in the classic Mario games. They're cool games and all, and it makes me say "This is what a classic 2D Mario game converted to 3D would be like." It's just that Mario isn't as fun to play as in it.

Funny thing that that was a common complaint about Sunshine when it came out but nobody seems to bring it up with 3D World.

>>1875117

>>1875119
I just don't get the concept that moving was fun or easy. It was a chore. The controller was inaccurate and the camera made moving accurately that much worse. Jumping is hard in 3d space, and there's nothing but frustrating trial and error that fixed that.

Early levels were easier to deal with but when you got to the later levels, there was an incredible amount of frustration going on. I was able to get the minimum number of stars to win and actually win the game, but it was an absolute chore, and I could not imagine trying to get any more stars than what I did. And I have barely touched the game since because I don't ever want to go through that exhaustive pain of a game again.

>>1874074
>After playing Super Mario Galaxy and its very tight controls, Mario 64 is now almost unplayable.
Except that's the reverse. Galaxy feels sloppy and the awful camera makes 64 look great and they made the gameplay worse anyway. You can waggle and shoot stars so there's that.

Though Mario 64 is still a solid platformer today and aged fairly well

>>1875128
I was able to make it through most levels through just sheer willpower and brute force as a kid and got up to like 117 stars. Those last few levels are fucking frustrating though. Actually, I think I got so burned out trying to get all 120 stars that I just gave on the game and never even beat Bowser.

>>1875132
That damn rainbow level. That DAMN RAINBOW LEVEL. Hell, Tick-Tock Clock was easier than that.

>>1875145
Yeah, those three stars I didn't get were on those last two fucking levels. Seriously, fuck that rainbow level. Shit was stupid hard and 3D platforming did it no favors.

>>1874035
I've noticed some of my ps2 and gamecube games are feeling a bit aged.

There's always a consistent feel when I recall playing games as a child on nes/gen/n64/ps1 that I still feel today... but when it comes to ps2/xbox/gcn games that feel is not consistent. Going back to play those games now feels slightly more on the "this plays like shit" than when it was current gen as a teenager.

Thats not for all games though, but most.

>>1875117
To be completely honest it looks like you have an opinion, yes, but if you aren't trolling then your opinion is literally so unpopular that not only does nobody reply with actual discussion but the only people who currently respond to you think you are trolling and are calling you out.

>>1874035
literally b8

>>1874941
No, its like >>1874667 said. Standards we have today from playing modern games make older games possibly poorer, because we had lower standards back then.

>>1875059
you're a special kind of dense motherfucker

>>1875160
>Seriously, fuck that rainbow level. Shit was stupid hard and 3D platforming did it no favors.

Yeah. What actually make it the worst level, is the long-ass waiting on the carpet before you get to do anything. If you die, you don't want to try again and wait 5 more minutes on the carpet before you can play the game again.

>>1874035
>that game
>ever aging.

Although the visual output of the cartridges seem to literally "age", as my old one looks much "fuzzier" now, I would say that the game itself stands up today.

Hmm, I wonder how many of SM64's detractors are studying game design in college.

I wonder.

>>1875828
Please enlighten us to the vast trove of sacred knowledge that is gained from game design studies, and show us many examples of critically-acclaimed games from the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s that prove these facts.

Or you can just make passive-aggressive comments and avoid the question.

>friend loaned the game to me
>wonder if it will hold up to my expectations
>get almost 120 stars in a week, completely addicted to the game
>was sad that I didn't get to completely finish it because friend wanted it back

Yeah, nah, fuck you OP.

>>1875828
>game design
>school
Oh wow. I can't wait to see the Ubisoft make 3 missions course material and the syllabus section for the semester on covering practical stay at work and get paid low wages as a monkey producing clones or the thesis on the economics of charging about the same price for yet another match three game on facebook.

Should be enlightening.

I'd also like to see a minor in video game journalism and the course on how to copy and paste into a companies premade PR blurb/article while still maintaining enough integrity to include a Doritos advertisement in the middle.

I dunno. In some ways absolutely. Collectathons are boring as fuck to me but also in that respect it,s hardly the worst.

DK64 or the first jak games crank that notch to 24 and suffer immensely for it.

Though if we were to make a top five for 3d platformers 64 would crack it, so I guess it didn't age THAT badly.

My only real complaint about those early 3D games is that they often had downright terrible framerates. Zelda only ran at 20fps (even less for yurop) and games like goldeneye could get even worse.

>>1875876
>even less for yurop
Source?

>>1875876
Zelda was locked 20fps, but rarely dropped frames.

Goldeneye is unlocked FPS, but drops plenty of frames mostly when explosions went off. I didn't mind it, it wa a bit like a cinematic slowdown that gives you a moment to think about what to do next in the heat of battle.

>>1875879
I'm sure it's easy to find. It's pretty well known that PAL uses 50hz as the standard refresh rate and games that ran at lower framerates scaled equivalently.

>>1875884
To each his own, I supposed. Shooters like goldeneye and turok 2 turned into goddamn powerpoint slideshows for me.

>>1875884
Hilariously enough people today prattle on and on about fps drops today, myself included, but shmups with too much shit going on always made me feel like I was piloting the wing going into this zen like mode of dodging pixels and being a badass.

>>1874035
I fucking what?
I'm playing that again with emulator right now and it is still fun. Even with fucking keyboard.

>>1875884
>that gives you a moment to think about what to do next in the heat of battle.
Largely unnecessary for the same reason Halo is not a thinking mans game.

>>1875891
Most people seem to act that N64 is the only console with bad frame rates, but I remember a lot of SNES games that would get slowdown.

Plenty of PSX and Saturn full 3D games slowdown.

>>1875897
Goldeneye is a lot more tactical than Halo. Not a thinking mans game, but to consider it a mindless shooter isn't right.

>>1875904
Super mario world in particular. Start destroying while star manned and watch the frames drop.

>>1875904
framerate drops don't matter *as much* in 2D games becaus of the way sprite animation works.

>>1875904
I would also remember some slight slowdown on some NES games as well.

>>1875928
In theory, but it's sometimes accompanied by flickering which can give you a "can't see shit" situation.

>>1875889
>It's pretty well known that PAL uses 50hz as the standard refresh rate
Making it 25 FPS instead of NTSCs' 30 FPS. PAL systems weren't butchered down in the terms of hardware at all, they had just about the same hardware as the NTSC systems.

The slowdown was rather caused by this
>NTSC game runs at 30 FPS
>PAL is capable of 25 FPS
>shitty conversion happens
>PAL has to show the same amount of frames as NTSC
>It takes PAL 1.2 seconds to show the same amount of frames while NTSC can do it in 1 second
>it takes longer, therefore the game is slower
If the game runs at equal or less than 25 FPS then there is no slowdown whatsoever, there is no reason for it at all.

>>1875828
Why are you shutting down when you're getting called out? Are you autistic?

>>1875876
Zelda would have been downright painful to play in the animations was more flailful, and the framerate was more unstable.

What I remember is that once the framerate drops, if still stable. Its very fun that way.
Mostly because it doesn't normally drop.

what the fuck is this aged poorly shit all about. stop listening to youtube celebrities. you either like a game or you don't: it's 100% subjective.

what is the obsession with telling everyone that you shouldn't like a game?

>>1876003
I believe it stems from console war crap.like somehow discrediting a decades old game means they win points today.

>>1874331
Isn't this why everyone sucks the Crash Bandicoot series' dick though?

>>1874982
>Every time I try to discuss how SM64 is really a bad game

Maybe it's because you're a faggot?

>>1875972
>Making it 25 FPS instead of NTSCs' 30 FPS

Nope.

>NTSC game runs at 30 FPS
>PAL is capable of 25 FPS

Nah. You're thinking 60 and 50. The 30 and 25 thing really only applies to movies.

>PAL has to show the same amount of frames as NTSC
>It takes PAL 1.2 seconds to show the same amount of frames while NTSC can do it in 1 second
>it takes longer, therefore the game is slower

This is sorta right, because what the dev does to properly support PAL is either to speed up the game's engine or just skip drawing some frames altogether. This also means 50hz has power to achieve higher FPS than 60hz because you deliberately give the video buffer more reaction time by skipping 10 frames worth of processing power.

>If the game runs at equal or less than 25 FPS then there is no slowdown whatsoever, there is no reason for it at all.

However this is totally false.

>>1875879
>>1875889
The reason OoT ran slower than NTSC is because they didn't even touch the game engine. No optimization but for the sound driver.

Can someone define "aging" for me? Games don't age because they play the same way now as they did when they came out.

>>1874035

SM64 still has the most precise controls in a platformer. No game has nailed controls better than SM64. You may prefer another game's controls, but SM64 objectively has the most precise controls. The amount of shit you can do with that game is insane.

>>1876223
because naughty dog is trendy atm, especially with the neogaf crowd.

that's not to say the crash games aren't good, they are

>>1876283
>objectively

Come on man. Let's not start throwing words like that around. I agree for the most part that Mario 64 has controls that are as tight as one could expect for one of Nintendo's first 64 bit games, but saying things like that just isn't good for proper discussion.

>>1876308

I'm serious though. I know that word gets thrown around a lot, but I really mean it. I'd love for someone to point me to a platformer where you can do as much with the movement as in SM64. Just watch a speedrun (doesn't have to be a TAS either), and you'll see.

>>1876314
In that era? I'll admit that I'm not entirely sure, but I am not really a very clever person. I'm sure someone could think of a game that's both retro and has better platforming...

>>1874941

Completely agree. "aged badly" takes out all context of what made them great.

>Judging a 20 year old game by today's standards

I thought you guys were better than this

Video games do not age.

What ages is player skill.

Why would anyone on a retro gaming board care about some game "aging".

Go back to /v/

>>1876340
This.

Wine ages. Cheese ages. People age.

Games are digital signals. Compilations of 1's and 0's. They are the same today that they were on release.

>>1876331
Well that's not entirely true. They age in a way, as new systems and techniques and styles come and go. They age quite a lot, as a matter of fact.

>>1874941
I think "aged poorly" refers more to context and content, rather than graphics, controls, etc.

For instance. Earthworm Jim. It's a solid game, but it relies heavily on mid-90s crude humor, and a lot of contemporary references. It doesn't quite fit in with today's culture. Therefore, it hasn't aged well, because it is difficult for the themes within the game to align with our society's current sensibilities.

>>1876383
That's your problem. If you were completely oblivious to today's styles, you wouldn't know and they'd seem new in your mind, not aged at all. Needless to say it's not the game's fault, and as such discussing the "issue" becomes moot.

>>1874968
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.
This board has been as bad as a circlejerk as /v/ since day one.


Anyway, I honestly think Mario 64 is the best 3D Mario game. Camera never really bothered me. The graphics are still adequate, the gameplay is fun. The controls are dead on slick and responsive. Newer 3D Mario's made Mario less and less snappy, slower, and though Galaxy is lauded as the best controls, Mario feels sluggish and has ZERO air control from a standstill. It's really obnoxious. Mario just feels like he's slogging through mud the entire game. The camera in Galaxy is also too restrictive at times. Also, the level design is pretty restrictive, and relies too heavily on "spheres". The flatland levels are generally the most interesting, but they don't lend themselves to exploration because the path changes with every star mission. And they generally don't have as much substance, either.

My only real complaint with Mario 64 is that there isn't MORE of it. I would love an actual remake, true to the original, with more tons more levels and features, but it isn't going to happen.

Mario 3D World is the only "3D" Mario game that comes close to level design, controls, and overall polish that I feel Mario 64 has.

>>1876395
Then why are you here? If you think the discussion is pointless then just move on. Hide the thread and don't respond to it. Hopefully, others will too and the pointless discussion will vanish.

>>1876395
Well, fair enough, but we are aware of today's styles. You can't just ignore the progression of time.

How do you mess up a camera on a PS1 JRPG
Also
-Game stalling voice clips for every single attack
-Characters joining and leaving the party all throughout the begining with no warning and little compensation.
-one of the worst inventory systems ever
-stat results screen makes it as frustrating as possible to check your level progress.

>>1875145
Rainbow Road is fairly meh for a casual, though once you get good, it's pretty exhilarating.

Tick Tock Clock is the best damn level in the game. Actually, probably my favourite level in any platformer. It captures the very essence of platforming.

>>1876469
>SM64
>casual
>probably my favourite level in any platformer.

>>1876383
Except that's not what age means. The game has not changed one bit since it was released. /You/ have changed. Therefore it's incredibly inaccurate to suggest anything has happened to the game at all.

>>1876257
>Nah. You're thinking 60 and 50. The 30 and 25 thing really only applies to movies.

>PAL, short for Phase Alternating Line, is a colour encoding system for analogue television used in broadcast television systems in most countries broadcasting at 625-line / 50 field (25 frame) per second (576i).

It was a fucking first sentence in Wiki article. 50/60 FIELDS, not FPS, FIELDS are related to interlacing. You should really consider checking your "facts".

>This also means 50hz has power to achieve higher FPS than 60hz because you deliberately give the video buffer more reaction time by skipping 10 frames worth of processing power.
PAL games are locked at 25 FPS while NTSC games are at 30 FPS. It doesn't have any way how to achieve "better framerate", framerate is fixed and can't be anyhow better, only worse. If you meant that it wouldn't have frame drops, you are sadly mistaked, again. Just the drop from 25 FPS to 20 isn't as much noticeable as drop from 30 FPS to 20.

>However this is totally false.
However, it was completely true. There is no difference between NTSC 20 FPS and PAL 20 FPS. Both of them show 20 frames per second. Same speed. It's really easy math. However, 25 FPS and 30 FPS is a different speed which results in game being slower or faster. It isn't that hard to understand.

>>1876393
>>1876395

The word you guys are looking for is 'dated'. The passage of time makes older, unchanging things seem dated. The same way an ancient work of art becomes dated, even though its largely unchanged since the time it was contemporary.

>>1876549

>>1876395 was meant to be >>1876383

>>1876531
Yeah and guess what, OoT wasn't interlaced. None of the games running at 240p were. So that leaves us with 1 field = 1 frame.

And for interlaced games running at full speed that doesn't even matter. Every field is referencing a completely different frame than the previous one. So it's really half of a frame per second.

>PAL games are locked at 25 FPS while NTSC games are at 30 FPS. It doesn't have any way how to achieve "better framerate", framerate is fixed and can't be anyhow better, only worse

Nope, how many frames can be spit out is a matter of the engine and framebuffer work. It's up to the console to sync with the TV's vblank so that frames become coherent.

>Just the drop from 25 FPS to 20 isn't as much noticeable as drop from 30 FPS to 20.

This is completely unrelated to whatever we are arguing about.

>NTSC 20 FPS and PAL 20 FPS. Both of them show 20 frames per second.

I thought they were locked away?

>However, 25 FPS and 30 FPS is a different speed which results in game being slower or faster.

That's because you're only taking framerate based engines into consideration. FPS only really tells one thing, guess what, frames per second.

Explain this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_QX6UGiGtE

One is indeed running at 30, while the other at 25, because they had to keep the ratio of dropped frames to ensure the engine ran consistently. But how about the speed? They seem pretty equal if you ask me. PAL is arguably faster than NTSC. You may want to check your facts again.

>>1874035
Mario 64 is one of the few N64 games that has aged well, you moron.

>>1876590
>So that leaves us with 1 field = 1 frame.
Congratulations, you have successfully proved that you know shit about what are you writing.
Interlaced (576i):
>50 fields per second interlaced, making 25 frames per second
Progressive (288p):
>50 fields per second with every field duplicated, interlacing them makes it 288p/25 frames per second
Little bit better written:
>Older video game consoles and home computers generated a nonstandard NTSC or PAL signal which placed both fields on top of each other. This is equivalent to 240p and 288p respectively, and was used due to requiring less resources and producing a progressive and stable signal.
You need 2 fields to show 288p, not only one, making it 25 FPS, not 50.

>Nope, how many frames can be spit out is a matter of the engine and framebuffer work.
>>NTSC 20 FPS and PAL 20 FPS. Both of them show 20 frames per second.
>I thought they were locked away?
PAL TV can only accept 25 FPS. There is no reason whatsoever in pushing to your TV more than that AND when it gets more, for example if you tried to feed PAL TV with PAL60 signal, TV can freak out. If you know how does the analog TV broadcast work, you should know that everything what goes into TV gets shown, the FPS is set to exactly 25 FPS because that's what those TVs are made for, they are made for 25 FPS (50Hz). They can't speedup themselves, drawing a picture takes some time which can't be modified. When the console has to output FPS lower that that, it compensates it by outputting same frames instead of leaving the screen black since there is no new frame apart from the last one.

cont.

>>1876590
>>1876731
cont.

>That's because you're only taking framerate based engines into consideration.
And you want to know reason for that?
>Zelda only ran at 20fps (even less for yurop) and games like goldeneye could get even worse
This is the original comment which I was replying to.
This is the coment to what I said that there is no difference between 20 FPS and 20 FPS.
They both draw at the same speed.
There is no slowdown happening.
There isn't any difference at all.
That was the comment which it all started.

>Explain this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_QX6UGiGtE [Embed]
I recommend you reading this: http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2012/01/06/parlez-vous-crash
Naughty Dog didn't use the slowdown method at all while converting Crash to PAL. It was a proper convertion.
Nintendo with Mario 64 on the other hand didn't care that much and used the slowdown method to show game which has to run at 30 FPS running at 25 FPS, effectively making it slower. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWwAXUZvDhk

>>1876731
>>1876737
I won't even reply point to point because you seem fixated enough on your Wikipedia page you're not going to know any better, besides I'm really tired here.

I just wish you had some nice time machine so you could enlighten hardware technicians in the 80's not to make consoles render 60 frames per second, since the TV eventually discards half of them.

And how stupid could software developers be? Making F-Zero or Sonic run at 60 frames per second when they could've improved overall performance by making them run at a silky smooth 30fps, like the NTSC standard originally intended. You truly are one of the most enlightened beings on the planet. Please seek work in the video game industry.

>>1876794
>And how stupid could software developers be? Making F-Zero or Sonic run at 60 frames per second when they could've improved overall performance by making them run at a silky smooth 30fps, like the NTSC standard originally intended. You truly are one of the most enlightened beings on the planet. Please seek work in the video game industry.
Ok, as you wish. Right now, I'm going to shut up, while you will tell me the reason why did they do so and how does that stuff work. Google seems to be quite shy about telling me anything about it and before I sprout some wild theory which has no ground whatsoever in the eyes of a professional retro game specialist, I would like to hear something about it.

So, do you have any technical details about how does it work? Or did you just hear something about it and now you are telling it to everyone without any kind of ground?
I'm listening. I'm trying to understand. So far, everything what did you just say, even if I was sure that it's somehow bullshit, I looked up and wrote you what did I find, which most of the time contradicts to what did you say. So please, debunk my statements, because right now it looks like you are just throwing words which even you can't properly understand.

>>1874076
Nah.

Goldeneye/Perfect Dark PAL versions run at the same speed as the NTSC versions, just a lower framerate. I think they actually drop fewer frames than the NTSC versions because they already start at a lower point.

>>1877291
No they don't you frigging imbecillic

NTSC runs at 29.9 frame aa second on every game because of tv scanlines.

>>1877292
What the hell are you on about?

>>1877309
SCANLIENS CAN ONLY BE SCANNED oNES EVERY 29.9 FPS

SO YOUR WHOLE POIINT IS MOOT

>>1877313
So what? Are you saying that because of that dropping frames is impossible? Are you that dense? Of course the console will always output in 29.9 fps. But the game engine doesn't have to.

>>1877331
29.9 SCANLINES PER SECOND DUDE
DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT <MEAMS?

It means yuou cant even go into NTSC terrority without breaking the screen into fractals images

>>1876549
uh yeah.

"aging poorly" is a stupid thing to say. because it doesn't really happen. What people MEAN to say, is that the game is dated.

But a game can also "show it's age" but that's not a bad thing.

>>1877335
Capping a game engine at 25fps will put less stress on it. If the NTSC version drops to 25fps, then the PAL version won't drop at all since it's ALREADY there. You won't experience slowdown, because the game engine was already compensating for a lower frame rate.

>>1877370
DUDE im an electrical enigneer i think i know what 29.9 framerates a second cn do

>>1877372
>muh electrical engineer
No you're just fucking retarded

>>1877375
PROVE TO ME YOU HAV EA DGREE THAT I DONT HAVE


they dont call me PIMP for nothing

>>1877381
you're a 15 year old /v/ shit poster that thinks he can rustle the jimmies of a bunch of oldfags by being really obnoxious.

>>1877383
Im 24 bro and if you wre an oldfag u wud know how to filter oldfags like me but u dont. and Im not even shitrposting imn be9ing 100x real you dont know shit about emulation

>>1876794
>>1876886
So, did you find something in those 7 hours? Or did you come to conclusion that you were full of shit the whole time

>technical details about how does it work
That's all I ask for.

>>1875045

I started playing again for the first time since I was a kid and jumped straight to the highest difficulty level and I'm getting absolutely stomped. Once you get the hang of it the controls are surprisingly good considering the one analog stick.

>>1874035
The original final fantasy. I don't know if it's just me, but unless it's a remake of some kind I cannot bring myself to play it for more than half an hour at most. It isn't the magic system either, I love spell charges. Something about it is just painfully slow and dull.

>>1874194
Damn...owned?

>>1877292
>>1877313
Learn the difference between fields and frames. Console games can run at true 59.97fps by sending all fields with the same polarity, giving you 240p on a 480i display. This is why you get obvious scanlines.

>>1874035
I like how that one level became the blueprint for Luiji's Mansion.

>>1875045
PCfag here, I was just playing Goldeneye this weekend at someone's house, MP and SP. I found 1.2 controls no trouble to go back to--and I've even been playing the emulator + mouselook injector. Obviously it's not as accurate but it's not like the game requires it.

I'm not sure why some people have such a hard time adjusting to such things. I dunno, if I go back and play an old game, I might say "wow these controls are pretty awkward" but then I get used to it in 10 minutes.

Games don't age. Video Games are not milk.

If a game was good when it came out, it will be good forever. Nothing about the game changes.

King's Field

turning around 360-degrees takes a full minute, like wtf

>>1878739
Of course video games can age. The medium grows and changes, things that used to be acceptable and commonplace are phased out for better, improved ideas. A Model T might have been a fine car in 1912, but by any standard would be a horrible mess competing among modern cars. It might still be interesting to a have a go in it and figure out how it works and its place in history, but you would literally want anything else to get your groceries.

>>1878816
what a retarded comparison. video games arent a means to an end like a grocery-getter is. it's entertainment, and therefore subjective and "new, better ideas" is just your fucking opinion.

one person might think an automap feature with unsolicited hints displayed on the screen makes a better experience, while another thinks taking away the need for graph paper maps and cryptic puzzles takes away from the immersion in the game world.

>>1878816

I think it's more fair to compare games to movies.

Laurence of Arabia isn't considered "badly aged" because of the audio quality, and black and white picture. That's just how movies were when it was made.

"Halloween" isn't considered "badly aged" because, in modern times, the whole situation could have been adverted with something as simple as a cellphone.

And the movie "Alien" isnt considered "badly aged" because it has CRT displays all over the place, despite taking place in the future.


So, to me, Resident Evil isnt "badly aged" for having tank controls, and "Eye of the Beholder" isn't "badly aged" for being cryptically difficult. That's just how games were at the time. Simple as that. No need for modern-comparisons when they aren't warranted.

Modern comparisons/standards should only be applied to those that are modern. Something old should only be compared to that which came out at the time or before, not after.

>>1878816
>>1878739
>a video game can age
>a video game cannot age
>u r a faget
How can a video game age? What does age exactly?
The controls? The graphics?
Please elaborate

>>1878739
Video games do age you faggot.

When Doom came out it looked unbelievable. Everybody went 'wow' when they saw it and thought it was the most incredible thing they'd ever seen. When people see vanilla Doom now at 320x200 it looks like complete shit. If Doom had no source ports and was only available to play in its vanilla settings in this day and age it wouldn't nearly have this many people playing it. However as it can be bumped to modern standards with resolution and other tweaks people are still interested in playing and creating mods for it.

You're a delusional retard.

>>1878982
>When Doom came out it looked unbelievable

You're not just a faggot, you're a full blown hipster faggot.

>>>/v/

>>1878982
>People don't still play pacman vanilla because pacman dx exists.

>>1878982

I still go "wow" when I see doom, because I'm not some retard who thinks that Crysis came out in 1993. I understand what the standards were when that game came out.

>>1878982
>>1878982
>>1878982

This is wrong on a billion levels that its actually a pleasure to the senses just reading it.

>>1878982

>implying doom was amazing looking for DOS circa 93'
>not understanding that when we talk about the concept of games aging we mean in terms of the gameplay concepts that have been revolutionized by other more modern games not visuals

UFO unknown has to this day in my opinion never really been reproduced, it may be visually poor and was considered at the time of its release, but in terms of how it plays and the gameplay it has yet to be outdone.

Doom is timeless in a way due to its simplicity- its not winning any awards for its STORYLINE in the same way that Quake 1 and 2 aren't winning any awards for their storylines.

They are less complicated games that are still fun to just jump into and play. They are very accessible and only require a time sink if you want to be great at the multiplayer aspect. Same as Doom.

They come from a time when games were simpler, but somehow more entertaining and even by modern standards- I would say they still achieve exactly what they set out to do when they came out- unlike some more modern videogames.

>>1879121

I should say "a time when SOME games not all were simpler"

It really depended on what you were playing at the time.

I went and did a playthrough of Megaman Legends the other day for the Hell's sake of it. I found myself fighting with the camera more than the enemies. Still love the game though.

>>1874331
I've played through both games multiple times and have never noticed this problem.

>>1878968
Those are all examples of, you know, just plain good movies. For this to work, you need to take a movie that WAS good when it was released, but isn't now.

You want a game that's aged badly? Donkey Kong...on the NES. In 1985 it was revolutionary; the graphics are more or less the same, the music's there, it's a decent experience, but it's missing an entire stage and it definitely isn't arcade perfect. If you're emulating, there's no reason to play the NES version over the arcade original.

>>1879121
Think of a hypothetical situation where the industry skipped Doom. Let's say it went straight from Wolfenstein to Duke 3D. Yes I know Doom was the father of those resulting shooters and was a highly influential game but let's just say for argument's sake that this happened. Let's say Doom was never created but the industry still progressed the same way in terms of its games, just without Doom being there. So after Wolf the next big FPS was Duke 3D, then Quake, then Half Life etc etc

If Doom then came out today exactly in its vanilla state in 2014 hardly anybody would give a flying fuck about it and this is a fact of life. Doom was mindblowing at the time because it DID have impressive graphics (as much as the clueless retards itt try to deny it), solid gameplay and built on what games before it had done. It was immersive as hell and nobody had seen anything like it before. But in 2014 vanilla Doom would NOT have the same reaction it did when it was released (especially if people played it keyboard only as the vast majority of players played Doom back then). Vanilla Doom is an aged game, period. You can deny it all you want but this is a fact of life.

If Doom only existed in its vanilla state, you wouldn't have all these kiddies on /vr/ playing it via source port and it wouldn't be the big deal that is on this board or anywhere else. It would have been forgotten long ago. If it was released for the first time in its vanilla state in 2014, nobody would give a shit apart from a few faggots that enjoy retro styled FPS. All 100% true.

>>1879121
>>implying doom was amazing looking for DOS circa 93'
Name a better looking and more technically advanced '93 DOS game than Doom.

>>1879094
>I understand what the standards were when that game came out.
You've just agreed with me that games age you retard. You say 'wow' because you consider the time of when Doom was released. You wouldn't be saying 'wow' to it if it was released in 2014 because it looks like shit now but it looked great then.

>>1878174
Solitaire is best

And yeah, that game will slap you in the face with hairy donkey balls and then feed them to you through your anus.

>>1879824

I saw "wow" and enjoy myself. I don't go "ew" and have a bad time, as implied.

because games, like movies and books, can't age.

>>1879836
You specifically said you say 'wow' because you consider how old the game is. This implies you wouldn't be saying 'wow' if it was released in 2014. You wouldn't necessarily be saying 'ew' (as you straw-manned this implication out of me) but you certainly wouldn't be saying 'wow'. Keep spinning though faggot.

I'll probably get lynched for saying this, but Goldeneye on the N64. As much and I played it and loved it back in the day, I cannot revert to the control scheme anymore. I've tried several times to no avail. Shit is fucked. Boggles my mind that I could beat the game on expert over a decade ago.

>>1875068
Welcome to 4chan

>>1879824
>You wouldn't be saying 'wow' to it if it was released in 2014 because it looks like shit now but it looked great then.

Aside from trying to pass off opinions as fact, Doom didn't come out in 2014, so whatever the fuck you're trying to discuss falls flat because I could ask the opposite question, like what's a game that didn't graphically age. A game that came out in 2014 and could make you go "wow". Except it came out before 2000.

>>1879840

So then, we can agree that games can't age? Because that's what I'm getting out of your post.

>>1879816
Not a single thing you said implies it aged. All you've said is that old games are old, which was obvious from the start. If this is what you mean by "aged", then this entire thread and any discussion thereof is pointless, we already know the answer. Every game that didn't come out recently has aged.

What you are trying to prove is that some games definitively have "aged" more than others. Nothing you've said supports that assertion.

>>1874035
You're a fucking idiot op.

>>1876331
I'm 27 and I can still fuck up the same games I did in the 90's and even better

time doesn't change just perception

>>1881380
>Every game that didn't come out recently has aged.

Not everyone. Many old games still hold the standards we have today.

>>1881380
Apparently you lack reading comprehension. Stay delusional kiddo.

>>1881670
Aww I'm sorry my rebuttal hurt your head champ. Don't worry, no one's judging you for your inability to make an intelligent response. Keep up the childish insults, you'll win 'em over!

>>1881717
You call that a 'rebuttal'? Lol. All you did was deny it without providing arguments and used a cheap strawman that would make /v/ proud. If you seriously can't see that vanilla Doom is an aged game in 2014 both mechanically and graphically you're pathetically delusional. I reiterate that if the industry progressed just as it did and Doom was released for the first time today in its vanilla state hardly anybody would care for it. It was a big deal then however because it was brand spanking new and the fidelity of graphics and gameplay were amazing. Now it's another story.

All these /vr/ kiddies (you) still play Doom because they can get it to run with sourceport at higher res and have flawless KBM controls (Doom did have KBM with vanilla but its mouse controls were actually fucked and had movement in the Y Axis that was disgusting). This just shows that the game is being modernised from its vanilla state to present standards. Vanilla Doom is an aged game. Deal with it kiddo.

>>1874076
They're even worse than mario

Almost all the early 3D games from mid to late 90's are pretty awful now.

>>1881892
>this projecting
>this elusive concept of "standards"
>namecalling

pshh.. nothing personel

>>1881717

>"champ"

Wow. What a fucking capital asshat.

>>1879819

Myst.

You fucking retard.

after having played the PlayStation and after PSP (cross edition), playing the SNES version of Tales of Phantasia is clearly impossible

>>1879819

>"Rand and Robyn Miller's early CD-ROM hit dragged videogames kicking and screaming into the multimedia era, whether they were ready for it or not. The brothers rendered the world of Myst on powerful Macs with early 3-D design software, rendered the scenes out as static bitmaps from a variety of camera angles, then put it all together in Hypercard. Your home computer wasn't powerful enough yet to let you explore a 3-D world, but if you had a CD-ROM drive it was powerful enough to fake it. And that was more than good enough." --Chris Kohler

>>1874035

OP.

Did Rez age?

is sixth gen retro yet?

>>1878739
even if games don't age that doesnt mean the gaming industry around it stands still. a game has to be really damn good, or updateable/moddable for it to keep its playerbase from shrinking when games that offer similar gameplay with better graphics and better gamefeel come out.

>>1882713
>personel

>>1882748
It's not the same for me. That may be because of the huge nostalgia boner I have for that game but I find the semi-auto Cless much more appealing than the manual Cless of any rerelease of this game. I played a lot of the Tales of games (I played every single major title that came outside of Japan, with every release of Phantasia being an exception). And, while I do battle in manual mode in those, SFC's semi-auto is still the best. But that is in no way an objective fact. I know that I am biased.

>>1883258
What a dumb fuck you are.
Max payne's textures, especially the faces still hold up today, compare that shit to RAGE or something similar modern.

>>1883258
No, also how the fuck do you think max payne aged badly, still plays great.

>>1874035
Alundra
Arc the Lad Collection
Brave Fencer Musashi
Breath of Fire III
Breath of Fire IV
Chrono Cross
Dragon Warrior VII
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy IX
Front Mission 2
Front Mission 3
Grandia
Jade Cocoon: Story of the Tamamayu
Kagero: Deception II
Kartia: The Word of Fate
Koudelka
Legend of Legaia
Legend of Mana
Lunar: The Silver Star Story Complete
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete
Parasite Eve
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
Revelations: Persona
Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure
SaGa Frontier
SaGa Frontier 2
Saiyuki: Journey West
Shining Force III
Star Ocean: The Second Story
Suikoden
Suikoden II
Super Robot Wars Alpha Gaiden
Tales of Destiny
Tales of Eternia
Tecmo's Deception: Invitation to Darkness
The Legend of Dragoon
Thousand Arms
Threads of Fate
Vagrant Story
Valkyrie Profile
Vandal Hearts
Vandal Hearts II
Vanguard Bandits
Wild Arms
Wild Arms 2
Xenogears

>>1885359
Not that guy but I decided to replay Max Payne recently. Is it just me or is the mouse aim terrible in that game? It's so input laggy. Disgusting. Is there a fix for this?

>>1874112
SoTN

>>1885869
Game is fine for me, but I play on an old XP machine.

>>1886678
You're probably too much of a pleb to notice the input lag.

>>1885359
It suffers from that 'enemies have inhuman reaction speed and aimbot accuracy' that a couple of old shooters suffered from. Allied Assault was the same. Actually, alot worse. It was fine when you actually got some decent weapons in Act 3 though.

>>1874035
More like "games that aren't as good as I remembered"

>>1887216
the camera is really fucking annoying

>>1874035
Man, I'm playing through Mario 64 again. And I love it just about as much as I did as a kid. The controls are tight. The levels are fun and well-designed. I barely notice the camera because I've just been playing N64 games lately because I am dumb. Anyways, point is, it has aged pretty well and I still love it at least.

>>1887216
This wasn't good from the beginning.

>>1874035

I never could enjoy SM64. shitty controls even for the time.

>>1887417
Confirmed for underage. Mario 64 had some of the tightest controls of the era. It was revolutionary.

>>1878982
People like this ruin the board for a short thrill, how sadistic.

That doesn't change the fact they were terrible.

>>1887434

Twenty, here. I got it and an N64 for my birth day when I was five. It was fun, don't get me wrong, but it still had bad controls.

>>1887525
Pic is for you but not just you, the entire thread.

>>1874040
the snes ones have not aged badly. they're still fun, and they still look amazing.

>>1887525
you're too young.

i'm not an elitist but you just don't get it.

>>1887528 gets it.

>>1882746
>>1882749
Are you fuckers seriously comparing a bunch of prerendered images with clickable hotspots to a 3D first-person shooter?

While the images themselves looked nice for the time, a 12 year old could have written the technical aspects of the game itself. How is that even a comparison?

Or am I falling for bait?

New rule: You are not allowed to post on /vr/ if you can't appreciate the BEST old games.

Except Elder Scrolls. Fuck that series.

>>1882746
>>1882749
he said DOS

>>1887936

>Windows 3.1 versus DOS

WHOA HUGE DIFFERENCE

The other poster specifically stated:

"Name a better looking and more technically advanced '93 DOS game than Doom."

Myst may have been pre-renders, but it was certainly cutting edge for its time. In terms of its presentation, visuals, music and interactivity- yeah I'd say it takes the cake.

The only difference between windows 3.1 and Dos 6.22 was a graphical interface and what... quicktime?

>>1887936

I mean you might not think so, but to this day its still hailed, for its time (just like DOOM), as technically impressive on many levels. And technically DOOM 95 was worse than the DOS version for many reasons- so its unfair to be so strict about Windows 3.1 and DOS game comparisons (from the same year no less- that's some trivial bullshit). One was really just a GUI interface over a command prompt.

>>1887965

>DOS

>3.1

what's the difference.

Stop being a nazi. Both of those games came out the same year regardless.

still like to play p.e2
its like res evil with better aim controls and ff materia powers. weapons were just awsome

>>1887979
>>1887982
I'm not the one who instisted on DOS, don't mix that up.

My point was that I don't consider Myst to be anywhere near as (technologically) impressive as DOOM, and -by extension- don't consider Myst to be all that impressive at all.

I see that people have a different opinion about it and I was only 6 when either game came out, so that's fine.

Myst is a nice package and I absolutely understand why it blew people's minds when it came out. The prerendered images were amazing for the time and it must have been a huge amount of work to put them together.

But the GAME itself - when you take that package apart- boils down to pictures with hotspots and some audio playback. You could do this with HTML.

So the point where we disagree might not actually be in the games discussed, but in our definition of "impressive". Of course, Myst impressed people, maybe even more so than Doom, I don't know.

Maybe I'm missing the point when I interpret the meaning as a technological accomplishment (which Myst isn't unless you take the pre-baked still images into account), but that's what comes to my mind when I hear "impressive graphics"

>>1887996
>My point was that I don't consider Myst to be anywhere near as (technologically) impressive as DOOM,

So we're not talking about "aging" games anymore, just technological marvels. Moving the goalposts is literally the only argument agefags have left.

>>1888008
The root of this (sub-)discussion was
>>1879819
>Name a better looking and more technically advanced '93 DOS game than Doom.


I only responded to the guy(s) that brought up MYST

>>1887996

I can't help you.

Their was nothing like Myst when it came out and by the same token- their was nothing like Doom. The only difference is one genre has fallen out of favor with the masses.

>>1888014
>>1888014
>>1888014

I already replied to you.

tl;dr

win 3.1 = DOS

Quit the nitpicking. Isn't it fair to say- given their respective genres that Myst and Doom were pioneers that were BOTH impressive games when they were released?

>>1887996
This. Myst is a piece of shit and nowhere near as technically impressive as Doom.

>>1888038
I'm this guy:
>>1887996
And I already said that I don't care about DOS vs 3.1 and I agree that they are practically the same when discussing video games (with very rare exceptions)

> Isn't it fair to say- given their respective genres that Myst and Doom were pioneers that were BOTH impressive games when they were released?

I'm sure we can agree on that. As I said, focussing mainly on technological aspects might have missed the point since Myst evidently did impress people back then. It just struck me to see this game being compared to Doom. It's like comparing a 64k demo to FMV. Both look awesome, but for totally different reasons

>>1887996
>Of course, Myst impressed people, maybe even more so than Doom, I don't know.
It didn't. No game touched Doom back in '93.

>Doom
Interactive 3D (or 2.5D if you want to get autistic) gameplay.

>Myst
Point and click adventure with prerendered images.

Lol? To say Myst is more impressive than Doom is really grasping at straws and an utterly ridiculous claim.

>>1887434
Yes it was revolutionary, but that's because it was the first platformer with an analogue stick.

Here's a few examples of objectively bad controls:

1. You want to do a triple jump. Instead of requiring precision and timting, you have to 'guess' the distance and mash the jump button repeatedly.
2. You're on a tight ledge and have very little room to move. You want to move backwards quickly, but your character moves to the right/left first and falls to his death.

>>1888053

Myst spawned clones and pushed its genre forward.

Doom spawned clones and pushed its genre forward.

Their both respectively pioneers for difference reasons.

Its funny that Doom, with the community it has to this day- that have kept it relevant to begin with- suddenly overrides the single player experience that Myst was. It was unprecedented for its time and helped move videogames forward i.e. FMV pre renders, point & click puzzle games. We owe a lot to games like Myst. Even if you don't find it as appealing as a corridor shooter that was essentially far more accessible than a point and click adventure game it was still important. Myst's downfall was not being as customizable or re-playable as DOOM was and has been over the years. The reason Myst can be beaten in about less than ten minutes these days, is because the puzzles couldn't possibly be rearranged or customized at the time. That all came much later. Its easy to blame Myst for the FMV craze, but honestly it had much more and much better source material than Doom. It also conveyed it well for the time given the limitations.

tl;dr
Apples & oranges.

GAMES DON'T AGE. PEOPLE DO. ENOUGH WITH THIS SHIT.

IF YOU WANNA COMPARE THINGS TO WHAT'S OUT THERE NOWADAYS, THEN YOUR OLD ASS ISN'T A DECENT PARAMETER FOR ANYTHING.

ASK TEENAGERS, THE KIDS GROWING UP. THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR OLD GAMES. TO THEM IT'S ALL SHIT ANYWAY. AND WHY WOULD THEY BE WRONG? THEY'RE THE ONES NOT TAINTED BY NOSTALGIA ANYWAY.

SO STOP SHITTING THE RETRO SCENE.

>>1888063

>It didn't. No game touched Doom back in '93.

Your opinion, but a lot of games influenced Doom and as I recall they came out before it did.

>Interactive 3D (or 2.5D if you want to get autistic) gameplay.

Different genres- different gameplay.

>Point and click adventure with pre rendered images.

Personal preference don't you think? In 93' you would've probably been playing both.

Its really not grasping at any straws guy. In terms of everything Myst brought to table in 1993, it was a huge step in the right direction for that genre (same as Doom).

>>1888085

OKAY.

>>1888087
I wasn't really talking about how influential either game was. I was talking about how impressive they were technically. I really don't see how anybody could be more impressed with the technical aspects of a game like Myst over Doom for the aforementioned reasons.

>>1888097
Can fallout be considered a point and click RPG?

>>1888085
Confirmed for angry kidddo who got his ass handed to him by some SNES game

>>1874081
You suffer from motion sickness. This isn't the game's fault.

>>1874331
> There were plenty of times I've missed jumps in the galaxy games just because the camera was semi-fixed in a zoomed out side view that didn't allow you to get a sense of depth.
You have poor spatial skills, probably.

>>1874128
> If you could either control the camera freely or the camera had a setting which made it behind Mario at all times (Something 64 had) and didn't constantly go upside-down whenever it felt like it on those smaller planets I never would have had a problem.
It would be a impossible to control the camera freely in this game, due to the level design. Setting it behind the character would make hard to see what's ahead of you in the small spherical worlds.

Controlling the camera in 64 was already bad, it would be MUCH worse in Galaxy.

> I can't play it for more than a short while before I just start feeling woozy.
Yeah you suffer from motion sickness...

>Have childhood friend
>Used to play Smash Melee with him and other buddies like 10-14 hours a day on weekends
>They all stop playing it eventually
>Ask him to play Smash Melee against me
>"I'm not gonna play it, it's too old, it's time is gone"
>Proceeds to play The King of Fighters 2002 alone for 8 hours without blinking
>mfw

>>1888080
>you have to 'guess' the distance and mash the jump button repeatedly.

No you don't. While a triple jump can be a bit tricky, if you got the right runway and speed, it is very easy to do. You just need to time it and git gud.

>>1888085
>GAMES DON'T AGE. PEOPLE DO. ENOUGH WITH THIS SHIT

When people say that games age, Mr. Angryman, they mean that our standards have changed over the years, making older games possibly less enjoyable.

>>1888097

>I wasn't really talking about how influential either game was..

But they both were regardless.

>I was talking about how impressive they were technically.

They were both impressive feats given the time, the technology and the medium.

>I really don't see how anybody could be more impressed with the technical aspects of a game like Myst over Doom for the aforementioned reasons.

But people were and they had reason to be. They were two different approaches and in fact I would argue DOOM was a natural progression from games like Wolfenstein 3-D and other contemporaries. Myst was entirely unique and a brand new concept. Games had never been presented like that.. EVER.

>>1888138
>they mean that our standards have changed over the years
As long as people understand that peoples standards have become worse, not better.

If you think otherwise, I'd say /v/ is probably the right board for you.

>>1888080
>2. You're on a tight ledge and have very little room to move. You want to move backwards quickly, but your character moves to the right/left first and falls to his death.
This one is truth.

>>1888151
But I think that if you move the analog stick slower, mario turns 180° in a dot.

I'm not sure.

>>1888138
And you're bringing subjectivity into this. It also implies standards have changed for the best, which isn't always the case. Aging could also make game being more enjoyable than current ones, but it's always automatically dismissed as bad thing.

Running circles into the same stale argument won't help you get away with angry replies.

>>1888148
>As long as people understand that peoples standards have become worse, not better.

Why do you say that? Do you have an argument beside >>>/v/?

>>1888156
>And you're bringing subjectivity into this.
Of course. One's standards are subjective. However some standards are held today by most people, like saving possibility, skipping long cutscenes/wall of text etc.

>It also implies standards have changed for the best, which isn't always the case.

Yes, "ageing" does indeed imply that. What kind of standards do you have in mind which were better before, but worse now?

>>1888189
>Why do you say that?
Because it's clear that people now are more content to eat shit than in the past. Cinematic experiences with absolutely no gameplay continue to sell. That shit didn't fly in the past. Remember how FMV games failed to take off? (Dragon's Quest aside).

>>1888189

a.k.a.

Accessibility in games is not always the best thing in the world.

>>1888197
different anon, but FMV games still haven't popped up. If you mean very linear games, those existed before. When people say standards have changed, they mean things like UI and camera being their worst enemy. It should be obvious that not all evolution has been objectively for the better, I shouldn't even have to say that, especially on this board.

>>1888445
Yet there is a significant vocal towards the idea of "A shitty interface and unbalanced options is HAAAAARRRRDDDCCCCOOOOOORRRREEEEE!!"

>>1888197
Did you know that your entire post can be solved by playing good games instead of being a tripe-a baby who only plays what the adverts on TV tell him to play?

I have to agree with these guys.

I think it's just how we percieve video games these days

I think the graphics and audio of video games age. Some age like fine wine while others don't. The controls were either good or bad from the beginning. I don't see how that of all things can age.

>>1874112

Silent Hill 1 is timeless.

>>1888765
You have to pause to view your health. It's a perfect example of a game which hasn't aged that well. I'm not saying it's terrible, but because of modern standards, the game is less enjoyable.

>>1882751
Rez is better with age.

>>1888080
>Mario runs in a circle when turning around.

It's weird. I've read this complaint a couple of times in Mario threads lately, yet I don't recall this behavior at all. How on earth do you do that? When running, quickly turning in the opposite direction will cause Mario to briefly slide and coming to a full stop before running in the opposite direction. That's when you can do the sideways somersault

When you're standing still, I think he just warps around with no inbetween animation at all.

When does he do the circle ?

>>1888815
>When you're standing still, I think he just warps around with no inbetween animation at all.

This is exactly when he circles. If you stand still, but suddenly go backwards, he will do a circle. I think Nintendo wanted to impress people with the smooth movements he could do.

>>1888837
Ah, now I remember. It's when you immediately go full speed in the opposite direction, right? Because you do turn around on the spot if you just push the stick gently.

I must have trained myself to NOT DO THAT and forgot it existed.

>>1888802
Games have had on screen health since decades before SH1, you only need to pause to see your health because, guess what, an on screen hud would ruin your immersion, and it's the same fucking deal with the further titles. It has nothing to do with age.

And that's totally neglecting SH1 did have an innovative way to tell apart your health level in-game, the heart beats on rumble motors. The stronger/faster they were the more you were close to dying.
Either you're a troll trying to force that "modern standards" crap or maybe you just need to know more about the game you're arguing about.

>>1888802
Resident Evil and Silent Hill deliberately omitted a HUD so you weren't 100% sure what your health or your ammo was. It was a deliberate design choice and a damn good one.

>>1888802
>because of modern standards, the game is less enjoyable
There's no definitive modern "standard", that "standard" is your own subjective standards. It's fine for you to say "I don't like that game anymore because my own opinions and standards have changed since its release" but it's not alright to say "you shouldn't like that game anymore because my opinions and standards have changed when yours may be different".

>>1888802
If you think Silent Hill should have an on-screen health meter your opinion is wrong

>>1888137
All you do is mash the jump button. I've just completed the game.

>>1888848
>Ah, now I remember. It's when you immediately go full speed in the opposite direction, right? Because you do turn around on the spot if you just push the stick gently.

Exactly.

>>1889081
You can do that, but you don't HAVE to do that for it to work.

>>1888888

>>1874035
>Thinks games age
That's some /v/ level autism right there.
ISHYDDT

>>1874112
If forced to choose, I would take these games over any pile of assorted games from gen 7 or 8.

It didn't age badly, it was bad when it was released.

Thanks to paid Nintendo hype for making it good in impressionable children's minds.

>>1878986
Doom looked and sounded amazing, and ran like hot butter on a 386. You can't name a better-looking game in 1993.

And no, don't say Ultima Underworld. Its graphics weren't as good as Doom's, and it ran like molasses.

>>1882746
>>1882749
>Myst
>technically advanced

Myst looks like garbage, and has the interactivity of a DVD menu.

>>1889154
PS1 had the best library of all time.

>>1888127
his reasons are wrong but his heart is right. Kof 2002 is way better than Smash Bros

>>1879816
>If Doom then came out today exactly in its vanilla state in 2014 hardly anybody would give a flying fuck about it
Bob Dylan's music defined a generation. Bach's music redefined the entire medium. If either of these people were born a generation later, they'd be nobodies. Does that mean their music sucks and aged poorly?

>>1879816
Won't happen, because Doom basically created those later games. They would have never happened if it wasn't for Doom.

>>1889264
Keep thinking that Doom kiddie, only related tech Build got from Carmack were the idea of sectors and nothing else, people wouldn't just stand there for anything to happen.