/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1857178

yes.

When I was like fifteen I had an mp3 player with an NES emulator I played with all the time. The day I learned to save scum was the last day I finished a game legit for at least two years.

>>1857178
I did with both Ecco the Dolphin forma Génesis, and I don't regret it

>>1857201
Also please ignore the auto-correct.

im not japanese enough for blaster master.
after the green frog, the bosses become too fast and hit too hard.

especially the ice crab.

>>1857215
Use the grenade-pause trick?

This will only attract retarded penis waving.

>>1857223

only works for even numbered bosses. ice crab was odd.

This fucker - D'Sparil, last boss of Heretic, I kept trying for a week.
The only problem is that he keeps spawning dudes. Within 10 minutes he can have the whole field full of his guys.

>>1857178
Yes and no; I used them to practice each Battletoads level until I could beat the game in one credit. I regret nothing, that fucker messed with us first.

>>1857178
I did back when I was younger. Then, as I grew up, I learned the value of overcoming a challenge.

Depends. Sometimes I actively decide to go through a game without savestating. Otherwise I savestate like crazy to the point I don't even really know if I would NEED to do it or not, I just do it because I feel like mindlessly going through something familiar.

Yeah, who hasn't? I still use states, but I've grown to enjoy the anger I feel from particularly hard games. If nothing else, I grow to love the first few levels in a hard game with a finite number of continues.

I did as a kid.

>>1857178
For several bootleg games, yes. I don't know how people could beat them otherwise.

>>1857178
When i want to do a 1CC on emulator I use them sometimes for training on a specific levels,patterns or bosses.

Yes, I try not to do it but sometimes I can't help it. The game which I savescummed probably the hardest is Jagged Alliance 2. Only very very late in the game I could accept that sometimes MERCS die, before, I would always reload when that happened.

I used it on Gradius Gaiden just so I can see the end of the game. Trying with out it I managed to make it to the Boss Rush before getting a game over.

I don't really like using them. If I can't beat it, I'll try again. If it gets to the point I've tied so many times and still can't pass it, I just stop playing until another time. If I didn't really care about the game to begin with, I just quit.

>>1857178
of course.
>The Chaos Engine
>Don't even though it was possible to beat the final boss without savescumming.

>>1857178
Ristar and S3&K on the special stages.

I save scum all the time in Rogue

Particularly if im on a lucky streak of items and legitimately think i can beat it on that save

>>1858552
But why? It saves the progress you make. You can just go back to and do it again. Plus, isn't it a bit weird to try and make a save state in the middle of a S3&K special stage? I'd imagine especially when it speeds up.

>>1857178
I have never done that, there is absolutely no point in it for me. It would be like playing Scrabble by myself and getting all the tiles for myself and basically just writing words on the board.

I can understand if someone else wants to see the story of a game all the way through or something, but personally I just don't see the point.

>>1858576 to add to my post, I completely understand >>1858531

You know when you can smash through most of a level without a hitch and then you hit this one little bit that you die on a hundred times? That little bit that is right next to the next checkpoint but you can't get the timing right? That's when I save-scum, I repeat that small section until I get the hang of it and then I repeat the whole level and do it proper.

STALKER on master

Made a fuckton of saves every time I killed an enemy. But that's not retro. Instead of savescumming I prefer rewinding in Mednafen since it's more precise and quicker

The first two ToeJam and Earl games.

I know the second one has a password system, but that's annoying.

for mega man 1, absolutely. no regrets

I have savescummed to reach the end of games before but I don't consider that to be "beating" the game. Rather, by cheating I let the game beat me.

I have a button mapped for rewind

Yes I feel bad for it.

I don't feel bad about savescumming. Sure, many old games up the difficulty by making you repeat segments of the game (or only having limited continues before starting from scratch) but honestly that doesn't increase the *actual* difficulty. It just makes you repeat stuff. You still need to overcome those challenges, but the difference is you just don't have to waste time retrying previous stuff.

Lots of RPGs when stealing stuff (MM7, Baldur's Gate, Fallout) or just generally doing things that require a lot of rng to be in your favor several times in a row, saving after each success.

Yes, as soon as a game stops being fun (majority of Mario rom hacks), or when I could abuse some design choice anyway - example saving before a coin toss in Pokemon TCG because I could just turn off the gameboy and turn it back on.

>>1857186
Pretty much this, only it happened to me when I was 12 or 13. I don't do it now, but I don't feel it's bad. If you have more fun savescumming than playing through normally then just savescum.

>>1858992
>Yes, as soon as a game stops being fun

This for me, too.

I don't mind getting my ass handed to me in a game, even if its over and over and over, but when it becomes tedious (especially games that force you to start from the beginning of the game), I'll chicken out to the emulator.

Love beating a game clean, but some games just break my will.

Not so much anymore, I was however using the turbo mode during grinding in Final Fantasy V recently.

(sigh) this old chestnut again. Lemme help you, OP:

>play through a platformer level
>get to a specific difficult jump
>fail the jump die
>start aaaaaall the fuck back at the beginning
>run through the same enemies, same obstacles, same jumps, same traps, etc etc

>get to a specific difficult jump
>fail the jump die
>start aaaaaall the fuck back at the beginning
>run through the same enemies, same obstacles, same jumps, same traps, etc etc

>get to a specific difficult jump
>fail the jump die
>GAME OVER
>restart
>start aaaaaall the fuck back at the beginning
>run through the same enemies, same obstacles, same jumps, same traps, etc etc

>get to a specific difficult jump
>fail the jump die
>start aaaaaall the fuck back at the beginning
>run through the same enemies, same obstacles, same jumps, same traps, etc etc
>etc etc etc etc

OR

>
>get to a specific difficult jump
>savetsate
>fail the jump die
>loadstate
>fail the jump die
>loadstate
>fail the jump die
>loadstate
>complete the jump!! move onward

It's video games, people. It's not the Harvard board, it's not your Calculus IV exam, it's not your taxes, it's not your job: it's fucking video games. It's not cheating, it's CONVENIENCE. It's not being some poorfag in the 80s who's ONLY method of "beating" a game is sending MONTHS of wasted time repeating the same easy bullshit in order to get past an artificially/engineered "difficult" piece in the game. It's being someone who has to manage their time, and uses the tools available. It's convenience and time management in a world of video game entertainment.

I couldn't do it. After 15 years I could not get through the Fleapit levels without cheating.

>>1859029
It IS cheating because you're changing the rules of the game. Justify it as you like but don't deny what it is.

I used to savescum the original Turok all the time, specifically those platforming parts. I just couldn't do them

>>1859029
casual detected

>>1859049
>>1859053
False progression coupled with artificial tailored difficulty padding? Oh yeah, it's well justified. I'll agree there's abusing the savestate system. But not wasting time in a game is just... smart.

>>1859053

>I'm a h4Rdk0r3 gamer
>why? what makes you say that?
>I beat XXXX game, every stage
>nice! how long did it take? that game's hard!?
>took me 4 months of memorizing and practicing every level, jump, trap, etc etc

>hey, I beat that game too!
>nice, how long did it take you?
>a few days. I just save stated when the BS parts came up

One of these is a smart person, the other is a delusional fucktard living in the old age of gaming, never to break out and explore the convenience of save states.

Often. I've also finished all of the oldschool FPS shooters I swore by on god mode when I was like single digit age.

>not intentionally setting a save state just before a difficult part to play just that part until it becomes automatic for you

it's like y'all don't even wanna git gud

Old games were ridiculously hard because it extend playtime without adding content. Nowadays there are so many games to play, games that are artificial length should be ignored.

Question: when you say "savescumming," do you mean using methods to save not provided by the game (like freeze states), or just saving lots and lots throughout the game using its built in save feature?

>>1859078
>One of these is a smart person, the other is a delusional fucktard living in the old age of gaming, never to break out and explore the convenience of save states.

That's quite harsh.

It all depends on what the gamer in question values. Some value mastery over quantity of games "beaten," which savestates obviously hasten.

I'm actually of the latter type. I want to experience as many different games as possible and not have to spend weeks in frustration trying to master a brutal platformer. But I understand where "hardcore" gamers are coming from. It's a great feeling beating a tough game on its own terms. Also, some gamers like the "pressure" of having to perform without the security of savestates, knowing that if they fuck up, it's back to the beginning/loss of powerups, etc.

Different strokes and all that.

I've done it a few times, I don't really feel bad for it.
If you have more fun savecumming than retrying until you beat the level then go for it who am I to judge.

I saved scummed Super Mario World

I am terrible

I used save states for the final boss of Parasite Eve. The first time I fought it I did it legit and blew all my resources. Then shortly after there's round two where the boss has 300 different forms. Honestly how the fuck are you supposed to beat it without?

I had to cheat too. Seriously, fuck this fucking game.

>>1859195
EH some of the super secret star world levels are mondo bullshit.

At least the one with the jumping fire and bullet bills everywhere.

>play Blood Rayne
>get pissed off at lack of checkpoints
>die again
>turn on in-game god mode cheat and play to where I was
>turn it off and play normally from there
>manual save states

I savescum every game now. I ain't wasting no goddamn time doing the same fucking thing over and over just for the chance to get good RNG.

I was going to play normally through Donkey Kong Country, until Stop and Go Station

Yes, for Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts. I only save scummed at chekcpoints and things just so I wouldn't run out of lives and to keep weapons I like.

>>1857178
I don't use savestates, I just use the rewind feature in retroarch

I have resorted to save scumming to beat a few games, but I don't think I've ever HAD to.

The first time I beat Contra I savescummed. The second time I Konami Coded. The third, I did nothing of the sort. That's probably the closest to "had" to, because I'm not positive I would have beaten it without that deep game practice.

If I'm emulating instead of playing on console, though, I'll save scum stuff like Mega Man half the time. I've beaten them in true fashion plenty of times. I'd rather get through the game without wasting time retracting steps if I'm going for a quick playthrough.

Nothing wrong with savestates. You still have to overcome challenges, only difference being not having to replay all that stuff you were able to go through just to get to that one part and die again. Does it make it easier? Yeah, but it's easier just because it doesn't take as long.

That said, I wouldn't use save states for survival horror games, because the risk of dying is what makes them work.

>>1859231
>mfw I beat that without save states just a few days ago

Thanks for the smug feeling of superiority :^)

I save scummed like a madman when I was just getting into emulation, but now it's generally more just if I feel like stopping in a game and save points are few and far between.

I've done non-save state based save scumming as well in some games, if there's some kind of annoying RNG I don't like. Dragon Quest Casions come to mind... the items in them aren't necessary to beat the game but that doesn't mean I don't want them anyway. And those things were made to be save scummed.

Adventure Island III got me savestating like a little bitch

On a more positive note, I did beat Ecco: Tides of Time the other day with no save states, shit angered me so hard at times

>>1857178
I used to save scum when i first discovered emulators
Now i just arcade that shit from start to finish, even games with Password systems, just so i can git gud at them and have a good long play

If a game's especially hard though, i may use official cheats, there's a reason they used to put cheats in there.

Revenge of Shinobi without Infinite Shurikens? FUCK.

>>1857178

I've done it, i've regret it, its shit.
Now i play my games the way God intended.
Pure.
See the light my brothers. Follow me to paradise over the skulls of the heretics.
Hard mode.

>>1859029

Heretic casual shit.
Sad and pathetic.

>>1857236
Never got that far in Heretic. That mount looks like something out of a McFarlane comic.

>>1859231
I beat that on an actual SNES recently. Felt satisfying, man.

Really, though, it's so easy to farm for lives in DKC that there's little point in save-stating.

I savescum and I am proud of it.

Fuck having to redo shit I already did because 5+ years ago some scrawny game dev got rejected for the nth time

>>1857178
>Have nothing against savescumming.
>Often forget to save anyway because I'm having so much fun with a game.
>Wind up having to redo large parts of games when I die occasionally.

I did savescum on Mario 3 though because I was really attached to my hammer suit. Still upset there isn't more of them in the game.

what the hell is save scumming?

>>1859779
Save stating.
You're scum if you do this.

>>1857236
I don't really consider that savescumming, because the game itself has a save feature built in. They could have made it so you can only save between levels, if they wanted.

>>1859793
what if you only do it on the areas between levels or the password screens?

Yes. I savescummed a shit ton in Zero Mission and Super Metroid.

>>1859818
Depends on who you're talking to.
Some say using any save feature not programmed in the game is unacceptable, others are more tolerant.

>>1859846
>>1859793
Not quite. Save scumming is to abuse saves to the point that you're basically cheating. You can save scum in games that let you save anywhere out of the box. It's the practice of saving every time you move forward in the game in good condition. Like, if you're playing Doom, and you save every time you clear a room without losing too much health, and you manage to brute force through the game with sure-death strategies because you save every time you get lucky, that's save scumming.

In these cases it's pretty arbitrarily defined, and it's impossible to really quantify where saving becomes save scumming, but in emulators with save states it's a lot more clear cut; if you're saving to give yourself infinite chances to do something that's supposed to be done in one try, you're cheating. Period. If this is fun for you, go right ahead and have fun, but understand that you're essentially using a Game Shark, and you shouldn't get upset when you're called a cheater, because you are totally cheating. They wouldn't have sold Game Genies and Game Sharks if cheating wasn't fun. It's still cheating, though.

Also, I don't think anyone considers password-screen save states to be save scumming.

>>1859029
why did you type all of those words without making an argument, all you said was "it's more convenient" which everyone knows

also you used the term "chestnut" incorrectly because OP simply asked a question

Anyone else read this as "saves cumming"

>UNF UNF IM SAVING MY GAME, OH MY GOD I'M CUMMING EVERYWHERE OMG

>>1857178
The first Wipeout game. Played it emulated, enjoyed it a lot, but I just could not get consistent enough to complete the entire tournament in one go. I could do the first few tracks, then started savestating at the beginning of each track, effectively giving me infinite "lives" instead of the 3 or so do-overs you're normally allowed.

I might have had to do the same thing for the tournaments in Wipeout 64 too, can't remember.

>>1859718
When you don't feel like farming

>>1859937
Just use the BARRL code, then.

>>1859925
No because I'm not 13

>>1859029
When you play football with other cripples, do you ask the goalkeeper to please not inconveniently catch the ball, too?

>>1859068
If you don't like the game, you don't play it. At least that's what sane people do.

>>1859078
Failing to see the merits of overcoming a challenge, be it in play or real life, is anything but smart.

I thought "savescummng" was when you handle saves that are otherwise autouodated, i.e. making backups of ADOM etc. saves incase you die.

Does the word now refer to using savestates and even the "save anywherex feature where it's present?

If you savestate you're probably gaming for the wrong reasons.

It doesn't matter if you spend six hours trying to beat a hard game without savestates or if you beat ten hard games in six hours WITH savestates, so long as you're enjoying it, but the latter is more than likely gaming because he's a sperg than the former.

>inb4 "but i only savestate at bullshit parts!" butthurt
>inb4 "i don't have time to play games so i savestate!"
>inb4 "muh poor game design!"

You're just bumping the games off your backlog so you can participate in threads about them or impress your online steam group friends, why bother?

>>1859981
Save states are for pussy fagtards
Get good or don't play the fucking game

>>1859981
Even worse is people who savescum through games, then proceed to give people advice on how to play a game.

>OH jeez, you had trouble with (X part)? That part's easy dawg, all you gotta do is (extremely ineffective strategy that would be nearly impossible without save states)

>>1859981
I'd say beating games with save states is roughly the equivalent of beating them with game genie. Usefulness of ggenie codes vary, of course.

I had to savescum to beat Thief Gold, especially on some of the last missions. Those missions are really goddamn long and whether or not you're found is just never a sure thing, so yeah, in the end I had to quicksave a whole bunch.

>>1859981
>>1859983
I don't think that's entirely fair. If the game has a built in save function, the developers left that road open to you and you can take it if you want.

In addition, if you get stuck at the game you might never git gud. Sometimes if you're stuck you just really need to make progress.

>>1859983
>Get good or don't play the fucking game

Watch out everyone we have a hardcore GAMER in here.

>>1859968
Yeah, years ago, I never saw the term "savescumming" used outside of the context of roguelikes. But I guess now people use it to mean "saving like a motherfucker" as part of your playstyle.

The reason behind the term originally was because "scumming" was any kind of repetitive behavior aimed at getting the RNG to work in your favor, such as going up and down stairs over and over until you generate a good dungeon level ("stairscumming").

>>1860103
Or repeatedly restarting the game until you get a good inventory (startscumming), while technically not cheating, is still frowned upon.

>>1860035
And you're a pussy fagtard that uses save states :^)

>>1860110
haha do you think anyone is really that bothered by it? stop gettin all upset man. it's just video games.

>>1860110
I often use savestates but you can bet that i enjoy my game session more than you do. I know you're trying to troll but there are actually people on here who seriously value vidya performance as a character merit.

>>1859981
>If you savestate you're probably gaming for the wrong reasons.
I bet Metroid while savescumming. Did I play it for the wrong reasons?

>You're just bumping the games off your backlog so you can participate in threads about them or impress your online steam group friends
What the hell? No I didn't.

>>1860147

>I bet Metroid while savescumming. Did I play it for the wrong reasons?

>emulating game on every TOP 10 NES GAMES TO PLAY BEFORE YOU DIE/TOP 25 GAMES THAT DEFINED A GENERATION/ARE GAMES ART? THESE 20 CLASSICS COME CLOSE/IF YOU WANT TO BE A FAGGOT YOU MUST BEAT THESE 30 POP CULTURE SMASH HIT GAMES and savescumming your way through it

You tell me.

>>1860194
Super Metroid actually.

>You tell me
Then I guess you're wrong because I haven't intentionally sought out games that are considered "top 10" or "top 25" except FFVI and Super Metroid because I thought they looked entertaining.

>>1860147
>save scumming on metroid

Listen anon, I don't fucking know you so I won't judge you purely on how you want to play something as whimiscal as video games; but savescumming on metroid?

It's hard to game over in it. Do you use savestates when you quit thr game or something?

>>1860194
>I never played this game when I was a kid, but now it's regarded as really well made
>Shit, I can't play games people overall think are good and are the start of the series! That'd be just awful!

>>1860218
Oh you're really gonna hate me for this.

I do it before bosses and before I go down a path that might lead to a dead end so I don't have to be bored getting back.

>>1859983
>>1860110

>>1859029
>>1859068
>(sigh)
>tumblr gifs
>artificially/engineered "difficult"
>False progression
Great, another high quality poster.
Go ahead and play video games how you want. Why do you need to act like such a moron about it?

>emulate resident evil
>save before every door
>reload if i so much as waste a shot
>finish the game with 0 deaths and an enormous stockpile of ammo
>no regrets

>>1860429
I guess that could potentially work as practice?

>>1860218
He's an underager obviously, getting bored going down a hallway what kind of fagtard excuse is that

>>1859029
People like this shouldn't even play retro games and just stick to their CoD shit. I wouldn't even hold a conversation with this faggot if he came up to me irl, you know fuck all about games.

>>1859029
>It's not being some poorfag in the 80s who's ONLY method of "beating" a game is sending MONTHS of wasted time repeating the same easy bullshit in order to get past an artificially/engineered "difficult" piece in the game

This.

Can someone explain why I should start at the beginning of a level again if I don't find it enjoyable to go through the same obstacles and shit?

>>1860225
you fucking piece of shit you're supposed to enjoy exploring I'd give you an Argentine back-breaker if I ever met you.

>>1860501
>you're supposed to enjoy exploring
It's not exploring if I've gone through it before.

>>1857178
I savescum all the time.

Come at me bro.

>>1857178
>Have you ever had to resort to savescumming to beat a game?

I mostly use savestates when i'm going to catch a legendary pokemon, does that count as savescumming?

>>1860501
Whoops nevermind I thought you were responding to someone else.

I did explore. But if it was a dead end I would save scum and go another way.

>>1860498
because it's incentive for you to get better at the game.

if you aren't taking the challenge seriously or you're just a shitty player then you may not be able to see the rest of the game unless you get good.

>>1860525
>because it's incentive for you to get better at the game.
But let's say I can easily get through the part of the level between my respawn and the part where I get stuck.

Going through that part again and again does not make me good at the game assuming I've mastered that part.

A save state allows me to "respawn" at the part that I actually suck at assuming the previous parts don't weaken me or something.

>>1860554
parting of being good at video games is being able to maintain your patience and focus when having to redo hard stages.

you won't get any sympathy from me bub I recently finished megaman 1 and I fucking re did that wily fortress stage as many times as it took to kill the yellow devil and I felt like a solid gold champ afterwards.

I could go beat ninja gaiden with save states but I'd feel like a prick when it's over. If it doesn't bother you at all then thats fine. just most people will think you're a shitlord, but whatever we're nerds 4chan

>>1860731
*nerds on 4chan

With games like contra, I feel that the difficulty is part of the experience. That said, I'll make save states during game overs. I'm okay with going back and repeating stuff, but I'm not okay with limited continues.

>>1860731
What does beating parts that you've already beaten have to do with being good at the game?

Never save scum but I do sometimes use cheats when I feel like being a fucking casual.

One day I felt like blowing through all the NES Megaman games so I enabled infinite lives.

Also I enabled infinite lives in Simon's Quest Redacted just to make sure I would never lose hearts i needed for whip upgrades and forced to grind them again.

>>1860554
>A save state allows me to "respawn"
Would you savescum Contra?

>>1861418
Never played Contra.

But maybe this addresses the reason you'd ask the question:
>assuming the previous parts don't weaken me or something.

If not, explain.

I rarely play emualtors, so not really.
Though when I played Marathon, I'd pretty much create new save files whenever I got to some significant point in the game.
Didn't really help much as one save was just before a vacuum level and I had nowhere near the needed amount of oxygen, but I was also too lazy to go back to an earlier save file. I just briefly gave up, and restarted the game a month later.

Maybe when I was a kid, but not today.

I might still do the pause glitch against the Yellow Devil in Mega Man 1

I savescummed for Thief 1, 2, 3 and Half-Life.
I believe these games have been designed to be savescummed.

>>1857178

I've savescummed New York Warriors on the Amiga. The amount of chaff put out by the guys on the final, building level is unbelievable. I defy anyone to finish that game otherwise.

>>1859718
Stop & Go Station is considered hard?

I've played DKC to death so my perspective is probably skewed, but it's not that hard as long as you keep up your speed or at least time when to move on. You can activate the light barrels several times, so keep jumping up and touching them again until the path ahead aligns up right.

There's a warp right at the start, so if you use that it suddenly becomes the easiest stage in the game, really. The Gorilla Glacier killer combo of Snow Barrel Blast/Croctopus Chase before you are allowed to save your progress is much more challenging I'd say.

Either way just use the warp if you're going to chicken out of taking on the Station, at least you're not a cheater then.

>>1858992
Pokémon TCG auto saves in duels. And the coin toss always lands the same way, unless you change something, eg using a trainer card.

I have no problem with save scumming if that's how you want to play. just don't go claiming that you "beat" the game, because you didn't

I played FFVI and Chrono Trigger that way when I first discovered ZSNES. I'm not that ashamed because their battle systems aren't exactly nuanced anyway, you play it for the story.

Then I became a shmup 1CC autist and didn't beat a game for several years because I refused to use level select, continues, read FAQs, etc and only played hard games that I'm not good enough to master on my own.

Now I use savestates to practice and play the game legit once I know how to do everything. It's backwards and kinda lame but I just don't have the time or patience to bang my head against a wall for hours anymore.

>>1859029

OR

>don't play bad games with artificial difficulty
>git gud at the ones that play fair

>>1861775
>Stop & Go Station is considered hard?
My thoughts too. I'm not amazing at DKC but it was pretty easy to me.

>>1862105
>Then I became a shmup 1CC autist
>I refused to [...]read FAQs
Granted I only ever 1cc'd easy things like Life Force, Gradius 1&3 (NES and SNES) and some of the later Touhou games, but...
...isn't part of the enjoyment to read what other people have figured out, then building from that and give your own input?
I might be jaded by doing a lot of WoW raiding in TBC, but reading up how people do it and try to do it better was pretty much an established part of it.
Have I ruined my exploratory sense with WoW? How do I get it back?

>>1857178
yes because I got sick of getting to dracula in the final stage of castlevania dracula X, I must have got to the boss thirty times before resorting to save states, I still beat the boss from beginning to end though.I'm not that big of a casual

>>1862302
Yes, that's why I said I was being an autist about it.

Sometimes I swing too far the other though and never try playing the game without help.
Like, I always research the shit out of any multiplayer game I play first, because I don't want to be a burden to my team.
And something like Etrian Odyssey practically can't be played without investing a few hours planning your build out beforehand.

Roguelikes would be a good way around this (games are short and you know you're going to die anyway, so there's no pressure to get it "right" on the first try), but most of them are too obtuse to be played without a browser window dedicated to their wiki.

Basically, fuck videogames.

>>1862343
>Basically, fuck videogames.
I try my best with board games, but they usually require you to play several rounds before you even figure out how the rules work.
Hell, the first game of Axis & Allies I actually played with the full rules in effect took 31 hours to even conclude, after which we played Clash At Demonhead for 10 hours to calm down there was a lot of Jim Beam involved.

Pre-93 adventure gaming is a dangerous thing.

>>1857178

Are you talking save states? Like emulators? Never.
If you're talking in game saves, then yes.

>>1859029
>>1859068
>>1859078
>any rhythm game
>any racing game
>any fighting game that incorporates lengthy combo strings
Any dumbshit can pull off that small sequence of button presses, but actually doing everything at once is what sets you apart from others.

>being someone who has to manage their time
Funny that you mention that. Whether or not you cheat doesn't have any merit in how well you manage your time.

If you're intolerant enough of the game's inner workings to resort to cheating, then chances are, you should just be doing something else. That something else not being resorting to going on an anonymous image board to try to justify your glorified cheats so you can feel like your success is as big as ours.

I never even knew this was a thing, other than on emulators, which yeah, Ive done sometimes.

But on original consoles Ive never done it. Well, maybe once or twice I yanked my ethernet cable out after losing an online madden game, but thats different...
On a related note, how many of you pussies let Meryl die when Ocelot tortures you?

>>1862376
>so you can feel like your success is as big as ours.
>your success
>is as big as ours
Question:
Exactly what games do you play, and more importantly: Why?

>>1862401
Recently I've been playing Dwarf Fortress, as well as Third Strike on GGPO. Mastery is always something I go for when I play a game, so I tend to stick to ones with either a high skill ceiling or a plethora of things to do.

>>1862429
I'm sorry, I went off a bit too agitated after reading one too many "us retro gamers, Earthbound and FF6 yo? Dem difficult NES games!" articles.

Got caught up in stereotypes, won't do it again.
I wish I could get into Dwarf Fortress...

>>1862514
>us retro gamers, Earthbound and FF6 yo? Dem difficult NES games!
Huh? What do you mean?

>>1857178
to beat a game? no, not really

to beat rng? of course. For example, abusing the battle glitches in Golden Sun 1 and 2.

From a cold start on a gba, in specific areas of the game, you always encounter the same enemy for the first encounter. If you perform a battle a certain way, you can always get a certain enemy to drop an item.

So I used this to get multiple Kikuichimonji in 1 and grind on Phoenix in 2. Did I need 8 swords or everyone at level 99? no, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

>>1862514
Yeah, I know the feel. I've seen a lot of it myself, so I understand.

Check out the Lazy Newb Pack. It'll get you enough into the game so you can learn it for yourself. The most common misconception with DF is that you can just read to learn it, but honestly, it's learned by playing it. It's not very hard once you get past the text graphics, just so you know. It's really immersive, actually.

>>1862376
>If you're intolerant enough of the game's inner workings to resort to cheating, then chances are, you should just be doing something else.
Why? What if the game + savestating to avoid parts you find boring/repetitive is fun?

>That something else not being resorting to going on an anonymous image board to try to justify your glorified cheats
I don't think "success" in a videogame actually matters. I just think you're wrong about it and I'm autistic so I discuss it.

>>1857178
XCOM2:TFTD. Usually only when someone who didn't suck died a shitty death.

>>1857178
I savescum a lot in Jagged Alliance 2.

Fallout 1, super mutant base. Constant one hit kill crit bullshit. Does it even count as savescumming when it's something the game allows and encourages you to do? Pretty much every PC FPS since DooM has done the same thing.

>>1863550
>What if the game + savestating to avoid parts you find boring/repetitive is fun?
If something irks you so badly that you have to alter the flow of the game just to get past it, then nothing is stopping you. All I'm seeing here, though, is somebody, as aforementioned, trying to justify cheats. It's not going to end well. If you want to cheat, cheat, but keep it to yourself. Don't expect any positive responses when you make a post about it.
>I don't think "success" in a videogame actually matters
Then we don't meet eye-to-eye in terms of the purpose of games. At this point, I don't think this argument is going to get much further due to semantics, so let's not waste our time.

>>1862376
>>1864078
>taking games this seriously

>>1863627
yeah, i'd think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who didnt savescum their first 1-2 runs of JA2. whoops my LAW missed at point blank there goes my best HW guy.

even to this day if certain mercs die its an instant reload. no way im playing a game of JA2 with hitman dead.

>>1857178
One time I enabled the rewind function to show the special stages and alternate palette in Super Mario World to some friends without it taking forever.

>>1862562
God bless Golden Sun's RNG, I know the game is easy but seeing a fully geared party makes my inner OCD a happy fish

>>1858891
This, 99% of that game's difficulty came from bullshit programming and retarded platforming.

>>1861512
>Half-Life
Half-Life actually has well-placed checkpoint saves (well, for the most part) and keeps the last 2 autosaves, so you can always go back one more checkpoint if you get screwed (or quicksave as a backup). HL2 is designed with fairly-placed autosaves as well, I played both games this way and enjoyed this quite a bit. I think I started quicksaving in Xen, though.

>>1857178
For licensed games, never.

For ROM hacks where necessary/explicitly stated to use, yes.

>>1859231
>Savestating any DKC
>Ever
>Savestating on the easiest DKC
>Savestating on the level with the obvious warp
mfw

Everybody savescummed to beat the early Wizardry games, and anybody who denies doing so is a confirmed liar.

I used it to beat I Wanna Be The Guy (not /vr/, but it's a tribute idgaf). Except I still never actually beat it because the final boss was too based.

Of course, that's a game made to be hilarriously bullshit.

And I'm going to throw a thought into the debate about the concept just because I want to make people angry. Long periods between checkpoints is a cheap way to increase difficulty exponentially. I'd rather have well-designed single challenges than ones that are only hard because there are several of them in a row.

>>1857245
This, I did savescumming for memory purposes... On some games.
In some cases I really don't liked the gameplay but wanted to see the ending or the bosses so savescummed to let me "skip" the game.

Hell with grinding for money for healing potions in Neutopia after dying to a trick spike block or boss. The damn enemies rarely give money or cherries in the later spheres so I save scummed the hell out of that.

>>1859214
I do a dance every time I manage to win the Special levels on the real deal SNES. And then I sit silently because I know I've just wrecked that save with the ugly graphics.

>>1864315
>I've just wrecked that save with the ugly graphics.
GOD I hated that.

>>1864286
>if it's not what I prefer, it's cheap
okay

>>1857178

Yes. Every time. I just can't handle my precious characters dying. Any of them.

I regret nothing.

>>1857178
I savescum because battles are so random at times and the freaking lich with their death bolts are ANNOYING.

>>1857178
I used to do it all the time back when I was in my teens getting into 16-bit emulation.
Kind of regret it now, I deprived myself of so much fun.

>>1864078
>All I'm seeing here, though, is somebody, as aforementioned, trying to justify cheats
And you're trying to justify why cheating is somehow bad.

Who cares what you call it? You're the one trying to make this about semantics when you sum it up as "cheating", as if that somehow means something.

>Don't expect any positive responses when you make a post about it.
I don't. However I know that there's no positive responses because people are stupid.

>so let's not waste our time.
I can't stop.

>>1859917
No, idiot. If game let's you save, its not a savescumming. Backing up saves when games deletes saves is savescumming.