/vr/ - Retro Games

Sega fucked up the transition from 4th to 5th generation so bad. It wasn't just Saturn. There was also Sega CD and Sega32X. Too many products, not enough games for them, they just expected people to shell out another $200-$300 dollars for new hardware every 6 months.

Also didn't the Sega Saturn have that live-action ninja rape game that was got so much media coverage it ended up causing the formation of the ESRB?

>>1856081
No, that was the Sega CD.

>>1856081
But Sega CD was good anon. Surely you haven't been watching a particular Youtube celebrity who has been telling people it wasn't good, have you?

The Sega 32X was a genuinely big mistake though.

The irony here is that, while at the time all we wanted was 3D games, nearly 20 years later we realize that those 3D games sucked. Early 3D graphics were terrible and if you go back and play most 5th generation games with 3D graphics, they look awful and are practically unplayable.

It was the games in 5th gen that stuck to 2D sprite graphics that ended up aging well, as they had finally gotten to the point where consoles had the resolution and depth of color to let them reach their full potential. 5th gen sprite games like Symphony of the Night still look and play beautifully, even by modern standards.

It wasn't until 6th gen that 3D games really became playable.

>>1856124
>Early 3D graphics were terrible and if you go back and play most 5th generation games with 3D graphics, they look awful and are practically unplayable.

Barring a bunch of N64 games, I go back to early 3D games all the time and have absolutely no problem.

>>1856124
>It wasn't until 6th gen that 3D games really became playable.
I'm sorry that you don't consider Crash, Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, Ocarina of Time, Nights, etc playable.

>>1856110
yea i hate it when people say the Sega CD was shit, its actually really great

>>1856124
I don't have any problem going back and playing Doom.

>>1856081
The Saturn was the final nail in the coffin. When Sega surprise released in six months ahead of schedule with no games, they killed any chance Sega had of staying in the hardware business. A number of stores like Kay-Bee Toys refused to stock Sega hardware after that fiasco and it carried into the Dreamcast.

The Sega CD was a failure, but not one that really hurt the brand with retailers or even consumers. While the 32X was a stinker by everyone's accounts. And probably one of Sega's dumbest ideas, with the Saturn just around the corner. But it did not do the damage Sega caused itself by releasing the Saturn ahead of schedule, with no games.

>>1856184
>The Sega CD was a failure
I contest this. 6 million is quite reasonable for an add-on that cost twice as much as the base console. Hardly a success, but not a failure. Just a niche product.

>>1856174

Doom isn't a 5th gen 3d game. He's obviously talking about PSX/N64 full-on 3d stuff

>>1856184
Not to mention, in my area, when the Saturn launched with fuck all but Virtua Cop and Virtua Fighter, they wanted over FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS in nineties bucks for it. I would have had to work three weeks with no expenses at my shit job at Long John Silver's (hey I was 15) to buy it. I lucked the fuck out in getting a PSX, since I wasn't a dick about sharing it, I didn't have to buy all of the games and controllers.

>>1856214
It's an early 3D game, and was on multiple 5th gen consoles.

>>1856081
>Sega CD was bad

>>1856124
>early 3D games sucked and aged badly

Anyone have that underage /v/ poster on /vr/ bingo image? Thanks.

>>1856081
That was night trap and honestly the game is really mild compared to most horror movies. There's barely any violence and no blood at all.

>>1856376
Early 3D did suck, try arguing the first tomb raider did not have shitty tank controls. Took them 2 games to get it right and even then it still feels clunky compared to 6th gen tomb raiders.

>>1856376
But aside from a few exceptions, that statement about early 3D games is correct. And I say this as an 80s kid that grew up with the NES. I'm certainly not underage.

>>1856262

It was also on multiple 4th gen consoles.

it's also not actually 3d, it just uses POV trickery to make you think it is

>>1856236
And Panzer Dragoon.

But PS4 launched with nothing but last gen ports and sports games. Hell, it still doesn't have anything original worth playing for it except Resogun (which sadly is a niche title). And it still sold 10 million units in just a year.

Hype pushes units. Saturn had shitty marketing so no hype. That's why it didn't sell.

>>1856024
But it could play 3d games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdCLcWF6uck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI0Q0VWOp3E

>>1856487
is sega saturn worth picking up. might buy it

>>1856495
IMO, not for the price they're fetching these days. Maybe worth emulating, but that's about it.

>>1856081
If only they hadn't previously gone the route of "let's keep releasing add-ons!". Why did the Genesis even need that shit? It was doing just fine on its own.

And sure, you can make the argument that the Sega CD was good, but it was still a commercial failure. People don't want console add-ons. And all the add-on failures is part of what made the saturn flop, since no one had trust in sega after a series of blunders one after another.

>>1856483
Fun fact: The PS4 is the first Playstation system to launch without a Ridge Racer game.

>>1856495
If you really like the games on it maybe, they're mostly arcade style games, and a handful of rpgs, stuff like that. My brother's second saturn broke a year or two ago, and I don't miss it that much.

>>1856124
I completely disagree that the early 3D games were bad, but I definitely feel that everyone jumped the gun with 3D before the technology was truly ready. For instance, many of the 5th gen classics ran at 15-20 fps, unfortunately.

>>1856512
Yeah, 5th gen consoles were powerful enough for awesome looking 2d games, but came up a bit short for full 3d. I think a generation full of arcade quality 2d games would have been awesome.

>>1856507

>Original Ridge Racer on PS1
>Ridge Racer V with PS2
>Ridge Racer 7 with PS3
>see the new Ridge Burnout Racers like Dubsteptopia and Unbounded
>tfw no Real Racing Roots 2014

It actually wasn't a bad thing. Unfortunately, Ridge Racer died. Damn, even RR6 on X360 was decent, why everything had to be shitted up? ;_;7

>>1856157
Doesn't change the fact it didn't get enough games. Sega 32X was such a big failure that it killed itself along with CD.

>>1856543
PS1 was Ridge Racer 4, actually. And the PSP and Vita also had RR.

>>1856376

>>1856736
R4 wasnt a ps1 launch title ding dong

>>1856543
Those new ridge racers made me extremely depressed. At least the one for psp was a huge throwback to everything that was good about the series.

>The same posts repeating the same "YEAH SEGA RELEASED TOO MANY ADDONS AND YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT IN A MARKET" story over and over again
We all know this, I wish people would stop repeating it as if it were something new. We know SEGA fucked up there is no need to go into why.

>>1857831
It's false though. Just an excuse used by Dreamcast owners. Nobody cared about the Sega CD not living up to its potential because good Genesis games were still coming out. I think the Saturn alone killed Sega. The Saturn years may as well have been AWOL for Sega in the West for four whole years. Sony enjoyed the connection going straight from PS1 to PS2.

>>1857971
They DID care about the 32X coming out at the same type as the Saturn and getting discontinued a year later. People were effectively ripped off.

I hate when people go dismistifying myths like this without doing any research or providing sources.

>>1857976
>time
Fix.

>>1857976
The 32X wasn't that expensive, and the general reaction to it was apathy rather than disappointment.

The Saturn was a real burner. 90% of Saturn owners at one point would have asked themselves "why did I spend more money on this and not just get a Playstation". That's the real reputation killer.

>>1856024
What are you actually trying to say? Because what you said makes no fucking sense.

>>1857981
Well the 32x was announced a year earlier and they had some pre sales, I believe most kids buying a 32X didn't even know the saturn existed since it was such a rushed release. But yeah either way they dun goofed with the saturn being too expensive and complicated and getting 3D capabilities tacked on in the last moment. I see your point.

>>1857983
The Saturn cost 100 bucks more than a Playstation and its 3D library mostly sucked.

>Buy Saturn for $400 and also get Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter
>The graphics look like total shit compared to the $300 Playstation and its Ridge Racer and Battle Arena Toshinden
>Get some multiplatform games for Saturn, find out their resolution and framerate is way worse than the Playstation version
>No real Sonic game turns up
>Few sequels to Genesis games come out
>Most of the games that do come out are content starved arcade ports with few extras
>The last couple of locally released games on Saturn are badly rushed ports like House of the Dead
>Eventually games stop coming out for Saturn locally altogether
>Have to pay extra to buy an Action Replay to play import games
>No cheap Ebay exists yet, have to go through expensive import resellers to get games like Marvel Super Heroes vs Capcom that charge a total fucking premium

Saturn was suffering

>be 14
>see friend has Saturn with vitural fighter
>I've got a full on boner
>I want one so bad
>few days later see one at a pawnshop
>beg parents for birthday
>OMG ITS HERE HOLY FUCK. FORGET THE CAKE IM GOING TO PLAY VITURAL FIGHTER
>become bored and want more games
>all I see is shit titles. (This is my first sega console)
>no SNES or nes like games
>put it in the closest and never play it again.

Boy if I knew what I know now I would have enjoyed it a little more.

No, I spent an extra $100 on the Saturn knowing I wouldn't have dozens of shitty 3d games.

That kills the Playstation.

>>1856501
>Sega Saturn
>Emulating

>>1858285
ssf

>>1856405
>>1856408
manchild, then

>>1857981
Yeah I never bough the 32X/Sega CD "confusion" as being the reason the Saturn did bad. Most kids I knew recognized it for what it was and were not confused that the Saturn was the real next gen Sega console.

That said I do believe the 32x contributed to the Saturn's poor U.S. performance for another far more important reason: It was a terrible allocation of game development resources that should have gone to the Saturn.

Without the 32X almost all of the 32X games would have been Saturn titles instead and a huge portion of them would have been very early releases if not outright Saturn launch titles. Now most of these games weren't great but it would have definitely padded out the Saturn's early library which I feel could have been very important.

>>1858725
>Now most of these games weren't great but it would have definitely padded out the Saturn's early library which I feel could have been very important.
Yeah, Sega were behaving as if Nintendo was the only threat. They could be tardy with Saturn cause they knew the Ultra 64 was far far off.

With hindsight of course, if they knew the Playstation threat was coming they'd have done things way differently.

I think Sega of Japan only wanted to beat the Playstation's specs so they could advertise the Saturn as "the most powerful console", I don't think they actually believed it would be anything more than another 3DO.

>>1856024
>All those people who jumped the shark and bought a Dreamcast only to be discontinued 18 months later and ultimately killed by the PS2

;_;

>>1857831
But it IS interesting. And while we know that sega fucked up by releasing way too many new addons and consoles one after another, nobody really knows why.

I mean yes, we know that the 32x and saturn were developed at the same time because east and western divisions had poor communication skills. But that aside, why did anyone at sega feel that they needed things like sega CD and 32X to remain relevant? Genesis was doing just as well as it's main competitor, SNES. It's not like it actually needed a hardware boost because the more powerful consoles like 3DO and NG were super expensive and basically irrelevant as far as actual competition. It's not like the genesis was still trying to compete with next-gen systems like N64 or PS1

tldr: why did they make add-ons?

>>1858772
I think NEC came up with it first for the PC Engine and it worked well for them. Back then everyone thought interactive fmv games were the future.
Then again they had a different kind of public.

>>1858776

>>1858119
Back then, they didn't market the 2d capabilities of the system though.
Most Fighting game reviews would say the playstation port was arcade perfect, which was a complete lie.

>>1858767
The phrase is "jumped the gun".

"Jumped the shark" refers to to an event which heralds the immediate decline of something.

>>1858772
Sega always suffered from penis envy. They wanted to have the best hardware at all times.

What's that? Hudson made a CD drive? Can't have that! Let's make our own!

What's that? 3DO made a 32bit console? Can't have that! Let's make our own! Oops except ours isn't ready yet, so let's do an addon!

The Playstation is gonna be better at 3D? Can't have that, throw in an extra processor!

>>1858819
I guess that makes sense. Damn shame they went that route. I have to wonder how things would've turned out if they didn't release the CD and 32X, and the Saturn wasn't a developmental clusterfuck.

>>1856402
Night Trap was really the game the caused the ESRB to be conceived? There are way worse games than that on the fucking NES, let along the Genesis. That's funny. Is it just because of the real people?

If only they hadn't made the 32x and rushed the Saturn
>You will never live in a world where the three first party devs are Nintendo, Sony and Sega

>>1856495
>>1856501
I just got one and I love it. I got the console in super nice condition with hookups and a controller for 60 shipped. contrary to popular belief, not every Saturn fame is 300 dollars. I have like ~25 titles and paid no more than about $175 dollars for all of them. That's about 7 bucks a game and I have a few very rare titles in great condition too. imo it's a very under rated system that I'm glad I invested in. bought a ps3 the same week and I easily play my Saturn 5 times more.

How easy is it to play pirated games on saturn? I know you there's a disc hot-swapping technique, but I feel like that just can't be good for the console and it seems like a pain in the ass. Any alternatives?

I think it'd be neat to try out the saturn, and the console price is reasonable, but I don't feel like opening up the can of worms that collecting old games for ANOTHER console can be.

>>1858870
it's super easy, just get a modchip. they're not too expensive and very easy to install if you have basic soldering skills. the swapping technique only works for import games I believe but I may be wrong about that. fuck that anyway though as it is bad for the console.

>>1858870
there's a modchip.

>>1856495
Not really, one of the worst consoles I ever had. I sold it, with no regrets.

>>1857742
Nice bait, half of those are actually true.

>>1858862
IIRC, is wasn't just Night Trap but mainly Doom and Mortal Kombat because ripping and tearing. The U.S Congress did get it's panties in a bunch about Night Trap because they somehow thought the game was about killing the women and not saving them.

>>1858878
what games did you have? there are so many gems on the saturn

>>1856495
guardian heroes if worth buying a saturn for alone.

>>1856506
because the cd add on for the pc-engine was doing really well and the genesis was behind the snes in specialized graphics hardware

>>1859173
Well, to tell the truth my answer was a bit biased.
It is probably just not a console for me, but other people could like it.

I like mostly RPGs, survival horror and adventure games and I could not find anything like that for the saturn, so I ended selling it.
Most of the saturn exclusives were arcade ports, it seems.

To be honest the console never made any impression in me, it always seemed like an obscure console, all children in school had playstation or n64 back then. Dreamcast in the other hand was one of my favorite consoles, pity that it died too soon.

>>1859173
Yeah, and they're all imports.
Saturn has been vindicated by history, but buying one back when it was current was a terrible idea. Sure, it has niche titles, but you'll be hard pressed to find them, it's library was tiny and niche, and it was expensive as fuck.

Nowadays imports aren't a problem, it's cheap, and you don't need to worry about it not having a big/decent library because it's just a retro console and not your current gen system. Those things make a huge difference.

>>1859324
>>1859292
good point, I thought anon meant that he bought one more recently and decided that he didn't like it. there are a ton of RPGs, not sure about adventure games though and to my knowledge there aren't many survival horror games. we have similar taste though, I however really enjoy arcade games as well so that may be why I'm a bit more of a fan. I'd recommend revisiting it honestly, I think you could find some titles you enjoy.

>>1856140

>Conker
>playable

not even ironically.

I have a question concerning the controllers.
I only have 2 of the ones in OP's pic and the one in my pic which is from japan. I tried playing NiGHTS with them, but my thumb starts to hurt after 10 minutes.
Is the 3D Saturn controller worth it? Will it make playing other games (such as Panzer Dragoon) feel better?

>>1861464
I would spring for a 3D controller. They're only like $12.

>>1861485
I would maim to have prices like that here in Europe.

>>1859580
Conker IS playable and the framerate is pretty decent, especially considering the graphics it's pumping out.

I want the stereotyping of N64 framerates to stop. Not every game is Banjo Tooie.

Powerslave, Quake and Duke Nukem 3D are fucking awesome on the Saturn, and they're smooth true 3D with dynamic light.

>>1861464
I prefer the normal model 2 controller to the 3D controller for like every game. 3D controller thumbstick just doesn't sit right with me. I have both, they're all really cheap.

>>1859292
the problem with the saturn, is that most of the games worth a damn are stuck in Japan. Nowadays, it's actually better to import games from Japan (a mostly complete game without the spinecard goes from 20 to 40, with spinecard is 50-60) than it is to pay out of the ass for the NA titles.

>>1864812
Yeah that's pretty much what I do and I don't really have a problem doing it. The only thing that bothers me is that sometimes during shipping the tracking does really fucky stuff and it just makes me nervous. And some things ship much quicker than others even though they come from the same general area in Japan, which I also don't really understand either but I guess it's due to different shipping methods. But it's not like I've ever gotten any sort of expedited shipping or anything, I just get whatever the seller offers and I've never paid more than like 10 dollars for shipping from Japan. It's just weird and makes me nervous sometimes.

>>1859324
> Saturn has been vindicated by history, but buying one back when it was current was a terrible idea. Sure, it has niche titles, but you'll be hard pressed to find them, it's library was tiny and niche, and it was expensive as fuck.

The U.S. Saturn library still kicked the shit out of the N64 in regards to quantity of good games and variety of genre.