/vr/ - Retro Games

>>1850719
First of all, during the N64 days rare was nintendo. Secondly, you seem to be ignoring everything made since. The only time I'd say nintendo consoles weren't just for nintendo games was the NES and SNES days (also handhelds).

People only say that now because they can't remember when you used to actually be able to play other games on Nintendo systems

Regardless of what others say, the fact that Nintendo consoles nowadays only have Nintendo games as worthwhile is a BAD thing, not to Nintendo itself though since it makes no difference to them economically, which is why they were fine with the Wii being a shovelware piece of shit.

>>1850719
It would be almost impossible for Nintendo to release a majority of the games for their system. They do, however, release a majority of the best games for their systems (at least as of GCN or arguably N64)

Additionally, Rare used to be a second party developer for Nintendo akin to Game Freak, HAL or Intelligent Systems

>>1850874
>rare was nintendo

That's really not true. They were a 2nd party developer for sure, but Rare operated pretty much independently. If you listen to the Conker let's plays you get a lot of insight into how Rare worked back then, they were frequently at odds with Nintendo of Japan on how they were making their games.

OP: people say stuff like that because the n64 scared a lot of 3rd party devs away with cartridge costs, but in the SNES/NES days nintendo had a strong 3rd party showing.

The best 3rd party partnerships for the SNES:
Square
Capcom
Konami
Enix
Quintet

I'm probably forgetting a few, but many of the best games for SNES were put out by those publishers

>>1850901
I understand how Rare functioned, but they were still owned by nintendo. So when someone says "N64 is only good for nintendo games" that does not exclude Rare's stuff.

>>1850903
Fair enough.

To be fair though, some of the best games for N64 were released by 3rd party publishers.

Some that come to mind are the Lucas Arts games, Ogre Battle, SSSV, shooters like the Turok Series and Doom 64, and of course the Treasure games (although Sin and Punishment was jointly developed with Nintendo r&d).

>>1850719

>NES was literally the ONLY option for gaming in it's time
>Genesis was a fucking joke, so SNES was effectively the only option for gaming in it's time
>PlayStation fucking SPANKED N64 in terms of third party games and pure amount of AAA titles and the Saturn held on there for a while too. Plus by that time, PC gaming had become more of a mainstream thing. So the only reason to get an N64 was for Nintendo games and a very small list of third party games.
>Gamecube basically only had Nintendo games, multiplats that everyone else already had and ports of Dreamcast games. Nintendo games were the only reason to buy one
>Wii had almost none of the multiplats of it's contemporaries, but had tons of third party support early on. So there was reason to buy a Wii beyond Nintendo games, but that was still the MAIN reason to buy one. After all, most of the third party exclusives suck.
>Wii U has almost nothing at all on it. It's basically the Gamecube's second run in those terms. There is NO reason to buy one other than Nintendo games. Period.

What's so hard to understand again?

>>1850929
>genesis was a fucking joke

>>1850932
compare the amount of worthless garbage to the amount of games actually worth playing on both systems. Not even that guy.

>>1850929
>Genesis was a fucking joke
look at him people then laugh til your heart content.

>>1850942
SNES has just as much garbage games as Genesis had. Actually it probably has even more garbage since it had more games.

>>1850929
>Genesis was a fucking joke

>>1850929
>Genesis was a fucking joke
>SNES the only option
Looks like this kid didn't actually grow up when the Genesis and SNES were still new. Go back to playing games on ZSNES

>Plus by that time, PC gaming had become more of a mainstream thing
This didn't happen either, most people didn't even have internet

>Saturn held on for a while
Ha ha ha. No.

>So the only reason to get an N64 was for Nintendo games and a very small list of third party games.
I don't think you remember the hype train that was the N64 with it's REALITY GRAPHICS PROCESSOR, but then again I highly doubt you were alive at the time either

>Gamecube basically only had Nintendo games, multiplats that everyone else already had and ports of Dreamcast games. Nintendo games were the only reason to buy one
I also don't think you remember that the GameCube had an initially strong showing of third party support (including a 5 game exclusivity deal with capcom that didn't hold up, third parties being able to use Nintendo characters like SEGA and Namco and working closely with other developers as in the case of Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes) that quickly died down for various reasons. You should at least remember that much otherwise you need to get the fuck out

>>1850949
Genesis has about 1,000 games and the SNES about 700. Not including Sega CD or 32x games

>pretty much worthless amirite?

>>1850929
>SNES lifetime sales: 49.10 million units
>Genesis lifetime sales: 39.7 million

>fucking joke

Underage pls go. You're embarassing yourself.

So uh, what happened to Nintendo that made it have such a lack of third party titles?

>>1850969
Not bending over to jew western publishers.

>>1850969
Shitty hardware and gimmicks that don't cater to what third parties want to work with. Nintendo designs consoles around what they want and need rather than an overall hardware design that accommodates any kind of game. Just look at how the Wii has the Wii remote as the default controller and the traditional controller is an add-on that isn't even standard with new consoles, therefore forcing waggle in all games.

>>1850959
You mean 700 in North America only right?

>>1850980
But the Wii had a bunch of Third Party exclusives or downscaled ports. It was selling hotcakes so publishers HAD to put something there.

>>1850989
>ports
Shit you just reminded me of that Dragon Quest collection that was Japan only.

>>1850972
or maybe they are more jews then the real jews.

>>1850990
I mean shit like yearly EA sports games and Call of Duty, The Sims, and Ubisoft constand stream of shovelware along with Just Dance. That shit always got them money so they kept it going.

Those aren't being released on the Wii U anymore.

>>1850989
>a bunch of Third Party exclusives
About the only third party exclusives I can remember were casual party game 4 and decent lightgun shooter that later got ported to PS3 when the move was released

You can also blame the Nintendo marketing team for setting the main demographic of the Wii as being old people, women and preschoolers (which is entirely correct)

>>1850995
Conduit series.
No More Heroes.
Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom.
Ghost Squad.

Wii had great third party games and the haters try to avoid mentioning them.

>>1851029
And Xenoblade, and MH3, and Red Steel 2, and de Blob...

>>1851029
No More Heroes is not exclusive.

>>1851029
Ghost Squad is an arcade game. Conduit is not good, I don't know what the hell you're on. TvC is a good exclusive fighting game, now name another on the Wii. No More Heroes is a good exclusive series...that's also on PS3

And you're seriously barking up the wrong tree, since I actually really like the Wii and can name all the third party games that are worth playing like Muramasa, Samurai Warriors 3, Sin and Punishment Star Successor, Trackmania, Dead Space Extraction, Baroque, The Last Story, et cetera. So I can say with confidence the library is fucking abysmal and third party support was down the shitter.

>whiteknighting the shovelware factory that was the Nintendo Wii

nope

>>1851045
>also on PS3
Actually, not just PS3.

>>1851041
It used to be, and NMH2 is.

In fact, the only reason it was made non-exclusive is because they wanted to see if it didn't sell well in Japan because it was on the Wii. So they ported it to PS3 and it... didn't sell well.

It may as well still be exclusive.

>>1851045
Conduit is at least a good FPS on the Wii that's not metroid. It's worth playing at the very least.

Owning an arcade game isn't economically feasible so it may as well be exclusive as well.

I don't play a lot of fighting games. Sorry.

Plus there's the ones >>1851036 mentioned. (Forgot RS2 mostly.)

>>1851065
Nice, very impressive. Is it region free?

>>1850887
Shovelware for Wii come almost entirely from big name publishers just advertising Deadspace ect for the other consoles.
There are a shit ton of great games from Small 3rd parties, but you never saw them on the shelves becuase of the shit Ubisoft took on everyone.

>>1851075
Conduit is a terrible game and the fact that it's exclusive doesn't mean shit. It's not worth playing (on top of which it's got an Android port). Conduit 2 is also terrible but is at least worth looking at because it supports 4 player splitscreen, the only other first person shooters on Wii to support it being the rare Metroid Trilogy, Goldeneye and Red Steel, which is even worse than The Conduit

>>1851086
There are not a shit ton of great games from small 3rd parties, don't even bullshit yourself. There were a COUPLE of decent games from smaller 3rd parties and then a huge sea of shit from anybody who ever developed on the Wii

>>1851103
>There are not a shit ton of great games from small 3rd parties, don't even bullshit yourself. There were a COUPLE of decent games from smaller 3rd parties and then a huge sea of shit from anybody who ever developed on the Wii

Basically this. My Wii folder is only like 80GB and most of that is from first-party software. I have some decent Atlus games, Last Story, and Mad World. Anything I might have wanted isn't exclusive anymore, if it ever was.

>>1850719
>People say that you only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo's games
This is how you tell the speaker's first console was the Gamecube.

>>1851229
The gamecube had some decent third party games though. It was trounced in that arena by the PS2, but it still had them.

>>1851241
That's true, it wasn't entirely barren. Nintendo's loss of third party support was a gradual process. The Gamecube was when I started to become really aware of it, however. The N64, it was definitely there, but it wasn't as big as a problem.

>>1851052
It had tons of shovelware, to be sure, but that's what happens to any popular system. Due to its casual audience and lower power, it received less quality third party support, but there's still good stuff to be found.

>>1851262
I don't think it was that gradual. The Gamecube seemed to be going in the right direction after the N64. The Wii was an absolute cliff though with most developers unable to alot significant effort to downporting from modern consoles.
Third party support was reasonable for the first few years while it could have cheap PS2 ports but following that it just fucking died.

>>1851041
that's like saying sonic is not sega exclusive because a decade later it was released on a nintendo console.

Nintendo can't compete in hardware with Sony and Microsoft.
Nintendo has less employees than activision, ubisoft or EA. It is a very small company, Sony has 100.000 employees (and they used to have 150.000), Nintendo around 5.000.

I think Nintendo should have used their Wii money to buy stocks of third party companies and competitors, Nintendo may have been small, but it was worth much more than Sony in the Wii years, and even nowadays they are worth more or less the same.

Nintendo, if they want to make powerful hardware, they will have to release their console one or 2 years after Sony's and Microsoft's console.

>>1851635
I think it's fair to say it's not exclusive since it got ported in the same console generation as the original release.

>>1851637
Well, Sony and Microsoft are both much more than just game companies. It's only natural that they have far more employees.

>>1851635
>third party game comes out for wii first and then gets ported
No, it's not exclusive.

>>1851637
Nintendo has top of the line engineers and could easily develop custom hardware to trounce Sony and Microsoft's PC based offerings, they're not interested in doing that though which is why they didn't do it.

>>1851086

I couldn't name you more than 10 non Zelda/Metroid/Mario games for the Wii that had more than moderate success.

The quality (and in this instance I use that term loosely) of the Wii library was bottom of the barrel.

>>1851670
There were plenty of successful games, the problem was that it was shit like Just Dance and Carnival Games. I'll agree that there was a dearth of GOOD non-nintendo games. They were there, but you had to look more compared to the other systems, and then hope that they appealed to you. For example, you were shit out of luck if you wanted more than 5 RPGs, and there weren't any good FPSs or racing games.

I think the hipsters of the future will collect and buy the gems of the Wii for a lot of cash (games like Zack and Wiki, Xenoblade, Sin and Punishment 2), and they will be much less interested in the Xbox and PS3 games.
How many people will be interested in playing an old Assasin Creed, COD or Far Cry game in 10 years?

>>1851926
It's not like the PS3 and 360 don't have relatively scarce niche games of their own.

Wait, did I stumble into a /v/ thread? I thought this was /vr/.

>>1850929
>Monster Hunter 3U comes out.
>Buy a Wii-U and Monster Hunter
>Get 400 hours
Thats basically $1 per hour and now I have access to a really shitty Wii-U.

Plus I probably played about 25 hours of Nintendo Land with friends and shit, and there will be some good first party games coming out at -some- point.

>>1851637
>Nintendo can't compete in hardware with Sony and Microsoft.
Not even remotely true. They don't want to.

>>1851926
That would imply that the Wii will either be seen as an obscure console that was good but overlooked or that it will ever be seen as such a thing. Hipsters would be all over the 360's "indie" games before the WII

>>1852003
>there will be some good first party games coming out at -some- point
There already is but I'm not going to try not to stray too far off topic here and just let that be it

A lot of Rare games didn't actually sell very well on N64. That's part of the reason why they fucked off to Microsoft with little complaints from Nintendo.

People only do buy the Nintendo stuff.

>>1851926

I'm counting on that since I have a huge Wii library.

>>1852058
you're joking right?
most of the games did really fucking well the problem was Rare was a bunch of slack offs and couldn't deliver a product on time

>>1851635
Uh, no. It came out 2 years later on consoles of the same generation. That's not even a remotely similar comparison.

>>1852072
>couldn't deliver a product on time
>easily the most productive developer of the 90's with games ranging from first person shooters, beat em ups, fighting games, platformers and kart racing games
You can't be serious

>>1852072

Conker and Perfect Dark were flops that started the whole mess of Rare leaving. Donkey Kong 64 was the first chink in the armour.

I'll look up an old article for you that will make you weep. Hold on.

>>1852083
one word
Goldeneye

>>1852090
I don't know what you're getting at, it's not like it was supposed to be a tie-in or something. Just so happened to have the movie license

>>1852087
It's no coincidence that a lot of Rare's staff left during the development of those games which resulted in not being able to be as productive as before, and I wouldn't say they were flops either. Perfect Dark sold 3 million and Conker had insufficient advertising.

>>1850972
>Nintendo was jew enough not to include a $10 laser diode for a fully working Gamecube backwards compatibility for Wii U
>somehow anyone can be more jewish than that

>>1852110

>>1850989
>It was selling hotcakes so publishers HAD to put something there.
No, the Wii Sports was selling, literally nothing else

>>1852116
>Nintendo was jewish enough to plan to resell gamecube games digitally
fixed that for you

>>1850719
>People say that you only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo's games
But that's blatantly revisionist history, of history that isn't even that old.

Wii sold about 900 million copies of software total. 600 million of that software was third party software.
>>1850929
>Genesis was a fucking joke
Genesis/Mega Drive actually outsold the SNES outside of Japan. In some places like Europe/Australia the SNES was actually a bit of a sales joke for the first couple of years.

>>1850954
>Saturn held on for a while
>Ha ha ha. No.
Actually he was right about that. The Saturn wasn't hugely far behind the Playstation in sales until 1997.

>>1851637
>Nintendo can't compete in hardware with Sony and Microsoft.
Anybody can make a PC in a box.

>>1852072
>Rare was a bunch of slack offs and couldn't deliver a product on time

Yeah this was true. Nintendo was supposedly very upset for two reasons: 1) Conker took like 5 years to develop and eventually turned it into a violent toilet humor game which I think Nintendo quietly disproved of 2) Rare failed to deliver anything for the Gamecube launch window despite releasing exactly one game in 2001, that being the long-developed Conker

i can't find it but there was an old article that had a poll of Nintendo fans' opinions of Rare being sold to Microsoft and the majority of people didn't give a shit.

>>1852118
I am fully aware Rare had a sharp decline in productivity around the turn of the millennium and feel that Microsoft buying them had nothing to do with the quality of their later games, what I'm saying is that they were a developing powerhouse in the 90's, easily one of the most productive developers in the west at the time

>>1852126
>Yeah this was true. Nintendo was supposedly very upset for two reasons: 1) Conker took like 5 years to develop and eventually turned it into a violent toilet humor game which I think Nintendo quietly disproved of 2) Rare failed to deliver anything for the Gamecube launch window despite releasing exactly one game in 2001, that being the long-developed Conker

Is this the reason why Microsoft gutted Rare and turned them into a soulless entity?

>>1852126
>The Saturn wasn't hugely far behind the Playstation in sales until 1997.
Where are you looking, Japan? He's an American based on his use of the word "genesis" and as I know it was dead in the water here compared to the 64 (which was pretty popular with Americans) and the playstation

>Wii sold about 900 million copies of software total. 600 million of that software was third party software.
so you're telling me 1/3 of every wii game sold is a Nintendo game? are you aware of how many Wii games there are, versus how many of those are Nintendo games?

>>1852134
From what I've heard that wasn't Microsoft's intent straight away - they were kind of like, "we'll leave you alone not to ruin your vibe, just churn out the great games".

But Rare's streak of unproductive behavior continued under Microsoft, only two games were made during the entire original Xbox cycle (not forgetting that Rare was a MASSIVE developer - like a conglomerate of several separate full teams each capable of making a high-budget game).

When that happened Microsoft put their foot down and said "right, we're taking control from here on" which is where the said guttering happened.

>>1852142
>Where are you looking, Japan?
I'm looking worldwide, but it's true. The Playstation's sales didn't exactly explode until 1997. It was just selling steadily better than the Saturn, but hardly a curb-stomp in 1995/1996.

>>1852142
>so you're telling me 1/3 of every wii game sold is a Nintendo game? are you aware of how many Wii games there are, versus how many of those are Nintendo games?
That doesn't matter, it's a separate issue. I was addressing a blanket statement "you only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo's game", and gross third party sales data is enough to prove that's incorrect.

>>1852083
How many GameCube games did they release?

>>1852171
It doesn't really prove him incorrect when the data shows Nintendo themselves enjoy a huge number of games sales. You're comparing one game developer versus every game developer who ever released a game on the Wii under the classification of "third party". Whether you want to argue this is because third party developers simply could not compete with Nintendo is another discussion, but it's obvious the Wii was tilted heavily in their favor

>>1852179
When we the gamecube released? 2001? that would be after the 90's wouldn't it?

>>1851661
>Nintendo has top of the line engineers and could easily develop custom hardware to trounce Sony and Microsoft's PC based offerings, they're not interested in doing that though which is why they didn't do it.
Source. I'm genuinely interested.

>>1852184
>when the data shows Nintendo themselves enjoy a huge number of games sales
I think one third of the sales is quite reasonable as Nintendo are a massive developer and arguably the only publisher that took the Wii seriously. THE ONLY publisher.

Every other publisher treated the Wii from DAY 1 as "casualshovel dumping ground". Considering that it's surprising they were even able to get 2/3s of the sales.

>>1851661
>Nintendo has top of the line engineers and could easily develop custom hardware to trounce Sony and Microsoft's PC based offerings, they're not interested in doing that though which is why they didn't do it.

>Sony+Toshiba+IBM made completely new architecture (Cell)
>Sony used it in PS3
>it could defeat XB360 graphically if used properly even without GPU
>no one but 1st party devs cared about that
>devs lost interest in PS3
>multiplats on PS3 were most of the time a butchered down XB360 version
>everyone rather went playing on XB360
>XB360 got much more vidya
>it was a fucking disaster

Do you still think that Nintendo might pull some kind of hardware to wipe everyone else off the game? Well if it wouldn't be at least twice as powerful as what is currently available then I highly doubt it.

>>1852195
>Every other publisher treated the Wii from DAY 1 as "casualshovel dumping ground"
No. If you look at the launch games it was an honest attempt at taking advantage of the "REVOLUTIONARY WAGGLE" and unfortunately falling short since they didn't expect it would be a giant hit so they released rushed unpolished games. And then later on Nintendo's marketing and sales trends only confirmed that casual waggle party game = $$$. Once again other factors like releasing woefully underpowered hardware and shifting too far from the norm also limited the Wii's capabilities and only really confirms Nintendo released a console that wasn't friendly to outside developers or publishers.

>>1852231
You realize the contract Nintendo signed with IBM to design the GameCube hardware (the design of which still used in the WiiU) was worth one billion dollars?

The Cell's problem was a lack of documentation and tools to actually make use of the hardware, the PS2 had the same problem but was largely helped by outselling the fuck out of everything and having middleware ported to it pretty quickly.

>>1852231
>>it could defeat XB360 graphically if used properly even without GPU
Holy shit. Looks like DA POWER OF DA CELL blatant lies still hasn't worn off some people after 8 years. I like the PS3 but that is totally false from a hardware specifications perspective.

Protip: The 360 CPU is actually a derivative of the CELL processor itself

>>1852243
>And then later on Nintendo's marketing and sales trends only confirmed that casual waggle party game = $$$
I think you aren't differentiating from shovelware and casual games. Nintendo released casual games that weren't shovelware. How many casual third party games were there on Wii that weren't shovelware? Probably countable on one hand.

>>1852259
I am differentiating. Wii sports, Wii fit, Wii sports resort, Wii music. These are all casual party waggling games from Nintendo that sold extremely well. And it's obvious they designed the Wii with the expectation of making these sorts of games.

>>1852263
Yes, but those are high quality "casual party waggling games" that do actually have a surprising amount of depth underneath the veneer of approachability and don't treat their audience like total idiots

Meanwhile third party casual shovelware games on Wii seemed to have been created with a single page design document that says "Remember, your audience is comprised of idiots"

>>1852259
>The 360 CPU is actually a derivative of the CELL processor itself
Nah, here are some quotes.

>So despite some higher-level conceptual ideas in common, Shippy stresses that both consoles' processors are very different, from architecture to software models. "They differentiated themselves in their own unique ways. What's interesting is that they did that with this common building block that was designed initially for the PS3."

>"Again, they're completely different models. So in the PS3, you've got this Cell chip which has massive parallel processing power, the PowerPC core, multiple SPU cores… it's got a GPU that is, in the model here, processing more in the Cell chip and less in the GPU. So that's one processing paradigm -- a heterogeneous paradigm."

>"With the Xbox 360, you've got more of a traditional multi-core system, and you've got three PowerPC cores, each of them having dual threads -- so you've got six threads running there, at least in the CPU. Six threads in Xbox 360, and eight or nine threads in the PS3 -- but then you've got to factor in the GPU, the GPU is highly sophisticated in the Xbox 360."

Yes, I kinda went too far with DEM POWA OF CELLZ but don't blame me, all of those PS3 based devs glorifying rendering on Cell is while showing latest Killzone/Uncharted/literally anything what isn't quite seen on XB360 kinda screwed my mind.

>>1852313
The CELL and Xenon are similar because IBM's contribution to both was made in parallel, but they aren't exactly the same of course.

Read this http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3904/processing_the_truth_an_interview_.php

Basically the CELL is like one PPU and five SPUs and Xenon is three PPUs and no SPUs together with some minor architectural differences.

>Killzone/Uncharted/literally anything what isn't quite seen on XB360
Yeah but Gears of War 3 was up there in terms of graphics with those games.

this line of conversation has completely lost every vestige of /vr/ now

>>1850929
>Genesis was a fucking joke

>>1851075
Conduit is very very bad.
Its not even a good game. I know the studio actually made it as a tech demo for licensing their engine, but why not make a good game while they was at it?

>>1852231
PS3 failed to overtake the Xbox because while it did have the Cell, it did also have terrible design process.
>GPU is bottlenecked
>Cell is not in a position where it can rasterize to put off GPU load
>Its not that well done in the CPU/Cell/GPU pipeline
>Devkit and documentation was bad, which meant that early adapters would never be able to figure out how to use it to replace PhysX
>Turns out devs are lazy fucks who uses engine published optimizations to do everything
>Turns out having a SPU unit was a bad decision when the Cell could have done that(they even had a shitty PR tech dem for it)
What a Cell game would have been compared to a Xbox game, if devs had used it properly would be like
>Better LOD by using CELL for it
>Physics calculation on the CELL
>Some form of FXAA and a scaler still done on the CELL(this happened)
>Particle calculation to CELL
Even then, the "big problem" is the GPU bottleneck. Then again, the Xbox was bad at that too, just not horrible.

>>1852574
Just to drag this conversation back to retro, you can really see some parallels between the PS3 and the Saturn.

Both had good theoretical performance based on parallelization bottlenecked by bad design.
Both more expensive than competitors.
Hard to program and under documented.
Both lost their parent companies a lot of money.
And both were bigger in Japan than anywhere else

have I clicked on /v/ by accident again?

>>1851637
>not knowing how much of a powerhouse the N64 was, and actually still is, considering
>not knowing that Nintendo is currently worth almost a billion dollars more than Sony

>>1852715
Actually, the N64 was actually pretty weak thanks to several flaws like forced trilinear filtering, anti-aliasing and having to mix audio on the CPU, as well as that tiny texture cache that was just too much for some devs. It's why N64 games are a blurry low framerate mess.

>>1850719
Ljn

>>1852761
>the N64 was actually pretty weak
Cool, I'd like to see the PSX or Saturn doing anything even approaching this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtAoAz7POBY

>>1852761

>N64 on paper:
>first decent 64-bit console, incredibly advanced for it's time, complete powerhouse

>N64 in reality
>hampered by terrible design decisions and strange programming/architecture

>>1852802
There were no terrible design decisions about the N64 hardware (the closest thing to that was a lack of documentation of how to use the fucking thing).

The biggest problem was that for many developers it was the first time they had to program a real 3D game (as opposed to pseudo-3D on the PSX and Saturn) since it actually had a GPU capable of proper modern 3D graphics acceleration.

But just look at Conker. That's the result of what you can accomplish with experience. The game is so technically 3D far ahead of what was on the other 5th generation consoles that it basically looks like a low-res 6th generation game.

Retro console war thrrad #46321

nothing to see here

>>1852815
But that was Rare, Rare was full of tech and graphics geniuses ever since they first started working with Nintendo.

Lack of documentation, weird decisions like audio going through the CPU, etc like
>>1852761
said just made it a little too complex for the common developer. Of course progress needs to be made but taking a shot in the dark rarely leads to the most stable outcome.

It's similar to how the PS3 ended up having problems with developers not understanding how to utilize multi-core architecture well, or how the Genesis had a weird audio system that typically lead to low quality sound.

'Too much' innovation can hurt a product.

>>1852818
Some of the things that were listed early such as "forced trilinear filtering" wasn't actually true. Most games used bilinear filtering only. Developers used it because the default microcode (which was based on accuracy instead of speed) was set up in such a way that there was no performance penalty in using texture filtering over point-sampling. Point sampling is actually a lot worse than bilinear when your game isn't 2D so developers were happy to use it.

The lack of a dedicated sound chip was just cost cutting rather than bad design. You could choose to do audio processing on either the CPU or GPU. Of course it would have been nice for an external DSP to do it.

>>1852787
Really tho even the conker devs talk about the shitty texture cache on that let's play series everyone knows about. Also that game is expansion pack enhanced.

>>1852815
>looks like a 6th gen game
Hell no, anything on the Dreamcast blows it out of the water. All it had going for it was good textures and lightning.

>>1852825
>Also that game is expansion pack enhanced.

no it isn't

>>1852828
>Hell no, anything on the Dreamcast blows it out of the water. All it had going for it was good textures and lightning.
Err...let me refresh your memory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyMybEB9Q0E

>>1852825
>Really tho even the conker devs talk about the shitty texture cache
Yeah uh the texture cache was a technological limitation.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-491-nintendo-64-game-console-teardown/msg256021/?PHPSESSID=047ebbc97c8270d693dfe2193695c2a3#msg256021

Nintendo ran out of die space with that particular processor fabrication, there's not anymore room for any more texture cache.

They could have gone with a different process/larger die but then the cost would catapult through the roof.

The biggest real flaw of the system was that the GPU can't render textures out of the RAM, only out of the texture cache. The PSX's texture cache is half the size of N64 but it can render out of the VRAM too.

>>1852832
Expansion pack is obligatory to run conker, dude!
>>1852834
That's just bad art direction. The poly count and textures are still indisputably better.

>>1852842
>undisputably
Fixd, I'm a moron.

>>1852842
>Expansion pack is obligatory to run conker, dude!
you're wrong, I have conker but no expansion pak and I have played it quite a bit

The N64 Evangelion game kinda looks like an early Dreamcast game. I mean, not entirely, but the 3D models in that game were fairly impressive for the N64.

>>1852834
Actually I wish the single player in conker played more like that.

>>1852849

is that being emulated high res?

The N64, GCN, and Wii were mostly Nintendo-title shipping units.
However, this isn't a bad thing.
SM64, OOT, Banjo, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker, Paper Mario, and even Pokemon Stadium were definitely extraordinary titles, and 98% of what was on other systems were worse than these games. There were great 3rd party titles on the 64 too, Star Wars games, Battletanx, Cruis'n, WWF Sin and Punishment, Mischief Makers, No Mercy...
Ocarina is hands down the greatest title of its generation. It's not even my favorite Zelda game or favorite title from the PSX/N64/Sat gen. But it's undeniable how great that game is.

The others aren't /vr/, but Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, Skyward Sword, SM Galaxy, Sin and Punishment 2, Killer 7, and DKC Returns are all great reasons to buy a Wii.
Many of Nintendo's titles are reason enough alone to invest in their systems. For example, Metroid Prime is as good a game alone as anything on competitor systems.

And the Gamecube is the toughest and best looking system from its gen.

>>1852854

I don't think so.
Anyway it looks better on the real hardware and a CRT display.

>>1852842
Obviously a newer console is going to win graphically, but Conker does enough to stand fairly well against Dreamcast games. Conker has better facial animation than Shenmue for crying out loud.

>>1852761
>and having to mix audio on the CPU
>Flaw
lel

Forced trilinear and AA was fine too. The biggest problem it has is that they did not forse a practical bottleneck.

>>1852862
Crash is about as good at lip syncing than conker, imo. It's only impressive for the hardware it was released on.

>>1852859
It is, the game doesn't filter the HUD displays on real hardware.I think.

>>1852863
Are you implying the lack of a dedicated sound chip is not a flaw?

>>1852870
Crash has lip sync through manually key framed vertices. The game can do this by loading a lot of animations off the CD.

Conker I believe has something closer to an early version of a proper skeletal structure like what later appeared in Half Life 2.

>>1852878
It's a flaw in the same way that the Saturn not having a Model 2 inside was a flaw.

>>1852873

These HUD displays are in "hi-res"? Look pixelated as fuck to me.
Anyway as I said, it looks miles better on real hardware, emulation on Eva 64 has a ton of glitches, plus the sprites (HUD, the trees, etc) don't look pixelated on a CRT screen.

>>1852884
Not hi-res, I mean they're bilinear filtered. You can't hi res 2D.
I'll look it up for you, also it doesn't glitch out if you use Glide mk2.

>>1852890

It's ok, I'm not interested on emulating N64, it's highly unreliable emulation. I have an Everdrive anyway.

>>1852883
wat? What's a model 2? The arcade board?

>>1852890
As you can see, the hud is left in neighrest neighbor, rather than bilinear filtered.

>>1852895
Higher res.

>>1852895
>>1852897

both look significantly worse than running the actual game on the N64 and on a CRT display.
It certainly looks nothing like neither of those 2 pics.

>>1852895
>>1852897
Fuck, I messed up. Proper high res pic.

>>1852898
That's CRT blurriness doing its magic.

>>1852904

I guess,.

Anyway, the main point wasn't the HUD, but the 3D models' animations, they look fantastic for a N64 game.
Too bad the gameplay itself isn't too hot.

>>1852893
Yeah the arcade board. Why didn't Sega just put a Model 2 into the Saturn? Cost.

Why didn't the N64 have a sound chip? Cost.

It's not bad design, just cost.

They've only been that way since playstation took most of the third party development, especially for the n64 and GameCube.

SNES and NES were THE third party consoles in their day.
Nintendo is now what Sega was then.
At least as far as consoles go. Nintendo continues to dominate handhelds, and Sega never had that going for them.

>>1852828
Dreamcast was a 6th gen console...
Of course most things have more potential on it than n64. He was saying it /looked like/ it could've been a 6th gen game, albeit low budget. It's a fantastic looking 5th gen game, especially for n64.

>>1853027
Only dreamcast that looked like conker were ps1 ports, I have no idea how rewording it changes anything.

>>1853027
Only dreamcast games that looked like conker were ps1 ports, I have no idea how rewording it changes anything.

Essentially you're delusional, check out Dinosaur Planet and Starfox Adventures to see the massive generation gap between these consoles.

Hrrmm... Castlevania Dracula X for $65, but the label is pic related, it's half torn off really. Might be able to get him to knock $10 or so off the price, what do you guys think?

>>1853840
The game isn't even that fun in my experience. Get a PC Engine Duo R and a Super NES flash cart, and you'll not pay retard money to play what may be two of the best classicvania games made.

>>1853840

You could buy a PSP and a copy of Dracula X Chronicles for the same price.

Although, you can always try to haggle the price on it, and then buy a reproduction label
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SNES-Castlevania-Dracula-X-NEW-High-Quality-Replacement-LABEL-NO-GAME-/171225533037?pt=US_Video_Gaming_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item27ddd64a6d

>>1854147

Dracula X (SNES) is not included in Dracula X Chronicles. It's a different game than Rondo of Blood.

>>1854147
I saw this and was thinking about it, but all the replacement labels I can find have the text squihed to fit "replcement label" on it on the bottom left, which would drive me nuts. He said he can do $55...

>>1852787
>my eMachines that can run Crysis at 480p20FPS is stronger than your PC that can play Quake at 4K 120FPS

That said, Conker is plagued by hilariously low resolution and the signature N64 framerate.

>>1853840

The Japanese version is readily available for around that same price.

>>1852929
>Why didn't the N64 have a sound chip? Cost.
It's hard to think Nintendo didn't have enough money to do something, though.

>>1854981
>Conker is plagued by hilariously low resolution
What 5th generation game isn't? Except like fighting games.

>signature N64 framerate.
Not in Playstation style small enclosed rooms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wohePgNluWY
In this part of the game the framerate is stable as fuck.

>>1856967
Because until recently Nintendo wouldn't sell consoles at a loss on principle. The PS1 despite being older hardware was a lot more expensive to manufacture than the N64.

To answer the OP's question, I reckon that Konami has published the most games for the NES, that is if you're willing to combine Konami, Ultra Games, Palcom, and their re-issues. Konami still published a sizable amount of games for the NES, I dare say they were the biggest supporter for the console. They even put 30 or so games for the N64, when the N64 barely had 300 games to begin with. Then Konami became a company that exists solely to fellate Sony.

>>1858217
But fellating is a good legal practice!